Why don't cars captivate/mystify us like they used to?

[Cookie Monster]

The market changed with the 2008 recession- used cars are generally more expensive as less people buy new.

Cash for Clunkers also fucked things up a bit, but I still found my clean as fuck 4Runner for $2400... Never had a problem with it either.

[Rupert]

And the market varies place to place. I assure you that a nice 1991 4Runner would not be $2400 here or probably in the greater Bay area.

[12,000 RPM]

You don't necessarily need $3500 to find a running car. Plus cars are lasting longer and longer now so even a 10 year old car with high miles still has a lot of life left in it.

Used car prices have changed a lot man. My first Accord was really low mileage and 10 yrs old when I bought it... it was $2200. A 10 yr old Accord now is like $7K. Even a 10 yr old Civic which is a lot closer to my old Accord is still like $5-6K. And inflation has been mild so that's not really a factor. Plus millenials have more student loans and worse paying jobs now. $$$ is def a factor.

[MX793]

And the market varies place to place. I assure you that a nice 1991 4Runner would not be $2400 here or probably in the greater Bay area.

You wouldn't find a nice 91 4Runner here at all unless it was recently shipped in from the south or southwest.  And then it would probably command a hefty price.  Early 90s Toyotas native to this area dissolved a decade ago.

[Cookie Monster]

And the market varies place to place. I assure you that a nice 1991 4Runner would not be $2400 here or probably in the greater Bay area.

This is true. I just checked the prices of 4Runners here. Pretty sad state, although there's a not quite as nice '89 for $2800 that's tempting. Only 20k more miles but it's a 22RE (which is not a bad thing, just slow as hell).

Although, based on how fast I sold my 4Runner (sold it for $2300 in 15 min after I posted it at midnight) I think I just got a stupid good deal on it.

[GoCougs]

What's changing is the escalating immaturity and stunting in general of young people. Freedom and self-determination (the principal personification of which is one's own car), is being subverted by the nanny state/culture, distractions (social media, video games, etc.), elixirs (dope, obesity, etc.) and broken economics (high young adult unemployment, huge escalation in COL, etc).

For where we are headed on the subject simply look at Japan and its younger people - it is absolutely horrific.

[MX793]

So a few, somewhat rambling, thoughts on the topic...

I was somewhat thinking about this very topic a couple about a week ago.  I was watching one of Matt Farah's One Take videos of him driving a 5th (final) generation Prelude that was essentially stock.  This was one of the cars I aspired to own as a teenager in high school, but was just a bit too new and a bit too expensive for me to afford as a 17 year old kid (the oldest of them on the used lots would have only been about 3 years old at the time).  As I watched, I felt the resurgence of the automotive enthusiasm I had when I was in my late teens and early 20s come bubbling back up to the surface.  At that time, there were a lot of options for cool, fun, "enthusiast" cars out there that were 8-12 years old that a teenager might actually be able to afford and that weren't so old or so high mileage that they were a complete money-pit.  Nissan 240SXs, Nissan NXs, Ford Probes, Mazda MX-6s, Mazda MX-3s, Honda Preludes, Honda CRXs, Acura Integras, Toyota Celicas, Toyota MR2s, 1st generation DSMs, Dodge Daytonas, Chevy Berettas, late 3rd or early 4th gen Camaros/Firebirds, late Fox and early SN95 Mustangs, late Fieros.  Those with a bit more budget (or generous parents) might be able to swing a 3rd gen Supra, early N/A Z32 300ZX, Mitsubishi Starion, early N/A 3000GT, or FC RX-7.

Then I thought about what cars I'd be looking for today if I were a 17 or 18 year old auto enthusiast looking for a reasonably reliable, affordable, fun/sporty car that was 8-12 years old.  It's a much smaller list today and many of the offerings are kind of meh.  Acura RSX, Scion tC, Mini Cooper, early S197 Mustang, Hyundai Tiburon, early MS3, early 8th gen CSi or EP3 CSi hatch, Neon SRT, Cobalt SS, Ion Redline, blob-eye or early hawkeye WRX, maybe an early RX-8 or 350Z and... that's all I can think of.

Moving on to the next talking point, something someone else here already brought up, is that newer cars have gotten so much faster and more capable.  The cars I listed from my teenage years pretty much capped out at 200 hp.  Most of those cars were <165 hp.  I'd have no qualms handing a 17 year old the keys to a 160 hp sporty car.  Yeah, it's still enough to get into some trouble with, but compared to something like a Neon SRT, Supercharged Cobalt, WRX, 350Z, or MS3?  And then I look at what is for sale within the past 4-5 years.  I remember when I was a teen and the going advice was for parents to not let their kids get a V8 Mustang or Camaro, which at the time were "only" making like 240-275 hp, because it would be certain death for a new driver to have that much power.  Then I look at the spec sheets for the slowest Mustangs and Camaros today and they're putting down more power than the V8s were back in the day.  I'm not complaining, but it's pretty astounding.  And now I feel old.

[Rupert]

I really like Japanese economy cars through the mid-90s. Simple, honest, solid, simple styling, featureless... I would think about getting an old Honda if I had a long commute.

[Byteme]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Back when I was eagerly pouring over car mags, anticipating driver's ed. and wondering what kind of car I could afford on a teenager's money cars were still aspirational for teenagers.  Most middle class families had just 1 car.  I'd guess no more than 15% of my class had their own car they drove to school.  Wheels were freedom and mobility.

I'd wager today most people under 30 grew up with their families owning multiple vehicles.  it's hard to get excited about something you've had access to for as long as you remember.

[Byteme]

So a few, somewhat rambling, thoughts on the topic...

Moving on to the next talking point, something someone else here already brought up, is that newer cars have gotten so much faster and more capable.  The cars I listed from my teenage years pretty much capped out at 200 hp.  Most of those cars were <165 hp.  I'd have no qualms handing a 17 year old the keys to a 160 hp sporty car.  Yeah, it's still enough to get into some trouble with, but compared to something like a Neon SRT, Supercharged Cobalt, WRX, 350Z, or MS3?  And then I look at what is for sale within the past 4-5 years.  I remember when I was a teen and the going advice was for parents to not let their kids get a V8 Mustang or Camaro, which at the time were "only" making like 240-275 hp, because it would be certain death for a new driver to have that much power.  Then I look at the spec sheets for the slowest Mustangs and Camaros today and they're putting down more power than the V8s were back in the day.  I'm not complaining, but it's pretty astounding.  And now I feel old.

Not saying you are wrong, but the only kid in my school who died in a car accident my senior year died when his VW beetle failed to negotiate a right angle turn on a country road and center punched a tree.   Power crs can be deadly, but so can slugs when driven carelessly.  The difference is it's so much easier to get in to trouble as HP increases.

[Laconian]

Only electronic crap...and not the electronic workings of it, just the use of it.

LOL, so true. It's like how everybody uses computers to do shit in Idiocracy but nobody knows what they actually do.

[CaminoRacer]

Why rely on OEMs to provide the captivation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAGzxOO0J70

[AutobahnSHO]

Not saying you are wrong, but the only kid in my school who died in a car accident my senior year died when his VW beetle failed to negotiate a right angle turn on a country road and center punched a tree.   Power crs can be deadly, but so can slugs when driven carelessly.  The difference is it's so much easier to get in to trouble as HP increases.

We didn't have any deaths during my high school time, but a girl was coming back from graveyard shift summer before senior year and dozed off and went into a ditch (lived in the country). Broke her back, barely made graduation.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

We didn't have any deaths during my high school time, but a girl was coming back from graveyard shift summer before senior year and dozed off and went into a ditch (lived in the country). Broke her back, barely made graduation.

We lost people every year except for our Senior Year! The worst was when I was a Junior and I lost 3 friends (One Survived) in a car crash (In a Dodge Diplomat) on the night they Graduated! My 10th grad year we lost a female friend who was passenger in a car struck by a truck while making a U Turn on the freeway! My freshman year we lost a Senior that had pulled over to change a flat and a passing truck lost a wheel that struck him and killed him!

[Raza]

I really like the E36.  I think any 3 series up until this current generation is pretty sweet. 



E36 M3 cab would be a nice road trip car, I think. 

Plus, M3 sedan!

[12,000 RPM]

Lots of good points made. Especially about the E36 M3 sedan. One got sold under my nose before I bought the Z. I kind of wish I had kept looking.

[BimmerM3]

Millennials don't like mechanical things. Only electronic crap...and not the electronic workings of it, just the use of it.

I bet there are just as many tech nerds now who fiddle around with building PCs, configuring fancy servers, etc., as there were kids who fiddled around with cars 30 years ago. Plus electronics are much more attainable.

[BimmerM3]

You have that reversed. I'm not good at it because I don't like it.

Also, I'm good at some of it-- lots better than most dummies with a wrench. I'm great at running wires. Still don't like it though.

I like the feeling of accomplishment after I finish a job, but the job itself is not fun.

[12,000 RPM]

there were a lot of options for cool, fun, "enthusiast" cars out there that were 8-12 years old that a teenager might actually be able to afford and that weren't so old or so high mileage that they were a complete money-pit.  Nissan 240SXs, Nissan NXs, Ford Probes, Mazda MX-6s, Mazda MX-3s, Honda Preludes, Honda CRXs, Acura Integras, Toyota Celicas, Toyota MR2s, 1st generation DSMs, Dodge Daytonas, Chevy Berettas, late 3rd or early 4th gen Camaros/Firebirds, late Fox and early SN95 Mustangs, late Fieros.  Those with a bit more budget (or generous parents) might be able to swing a 3rd gen Supra, early N/A Z32 300ZX, Mitsubishi Starion, early N/A 3000GT, or FC RX-7.

Then I thought about what cars I'd be looking for today if I were a 17 or 18 year old auto enthusiast looking for a reasonably reliable, affordable, fun/sporty car that was 8-12 years old.  It's a much smaller list today and many of the offerings are kind of meh.  Acura RSX, Scion tC, Mini Cooper, early S197 Mustang, Hyundai Tiburon, early MS3, early 8th gen CSi or EP3 CSi hatch, Neon SRT, Cobalt SS, Ion Redline, blob-eye or early hawkeye WRX, maybe an early RX-8 or 350Z and... that's all I can think of.

I was thinking about this.... are the current options really that meh? Looks wise I guess the older cars had the upper hand, but even something measly like an 8th gen CSi would give a lot of those cars the business, and be more fun to drive too.

Bigger issue today is how much used car prices have skyrocketed, putting what should be a beater out of reach for a lot of people.

[Raza]

Wait, who's Jethro? I've been wondering that for a while now. Bovingdon?

[veeman]

I think yesteryear boys dreamed and salivated over cars more than they do today because there are other entertainment pursuits available now.  Video games are much better now, almost all homes have computers and smart phones, and social media is very advanced and for most kids, very time consuming.  You still have your Fast and Furious crowd but the percentage of kids who have car posters in their rooms I would guess is lower now than yesteryear.

[2o6]

Most compact cars these days blow the doors off the coupes of yesteryear.



Also, people my age like crossovers and SUV's.

[Byteme]

I think yesteryear boys dreamed and salivated over cars more than they do today because there are other entertainment pursuits available now.  Video games are much better now,

Video games?  We had electromechanical pinball machines.  You hopped in your car and drove to the bus station or self serve laundry to play them.

[12,000 RPM]

I think yesteryear boys dreamed and salivated over cars more than they do today because there are other entertainment pursuits available now.  Video games are much better now, almost all homes have computers and smart phones, and social media is very advanced and for most kids, very time consuming.  You still have your Fast and Furious crowd but the percentage of kids who have car posters in their rooms I would guess is lower now than yesteryear.

Also true. Wifey is into old movies and music.... personally sometimes I find it amazing that people found that stuff entertaining

It's no wonder black people invented rock and roll and jazz. All that Bing Crosby shit was horrible

[Cookie Monster]

I was thinking about this.... are the current options really that meh? Looks wise I guess the older cars had the upper hand, but even something measly like an 8th gen CSi would give a lot of those cars the business, and be more fun to drive too.

Bigger issue today is how much used car prices have skyrocketed, putting what should be a beater out of reach for a lot of people.

No way. 8th gen CSi feels shitty. Doesn't want to rev as freely, steering feels numb as fuck, car feels too big, etc. My friend's old '92 Integra GS-R was a fucking riot in comparison. VTEC would kick in so hard. It wasn't as fast as the CSi but was so much more fun and engaging.

[2o6]

I liked the 8th generation a lot.

[veeman]

Video games?  We had electromechanical pinball machines.  You hopped in your car and drove to the bus station or self serve laundry to play them.

You are older than I

My friends had Atari and Commodore 64s.  Later on in highschool I remember a sleep over birthday party where we played Tecmo Bowl on Nintendo all night long.  There are young dudes now that die playing video games for 2 or 3 days straight without sleeping binging on energy drinks.  You probably never heard that happening with pinball

[AutobahnSHO]

It's no wonder black people invented rock and roll and jazz. All that Bing Crosby shit was horrible

Umm, Jazz is older than Bing...

[Rupert]

I like the feeling of accomplishment after I finish a job, but the job itself is not fun.

Pretty much. There are some things I like some times when I'm in the right mood. Other times I'm not happy to suffer setbacks or to think about what I'm doing fully (almost guaranteeing setbacks). In general, I can do some rad shit in the making stuff department if I take my time and think everything through beforehand so I can cruise and focus all zen-like, but if I can't get there, it can get ugly fast. Personal failing, I guess.