Arrrhg! Hit an animal. Maybe I should get a Jeep.

[giant_mtb]

Thanks!  I don't think I've seen a car made in the last 20 years or so with a speedometer that only goes to 100 mph.  Interesting Jeep keeps it real in this regard.

Test drive one.  See what you think.  I like Wranglers and other real Jeeps (ie, XJ Cherokees).  Some day I wouldn't mind an XJ or Wrangler.

[CaminoRacer]

After watching Narcos I really want an old Cherokee. My dad had two while I was growing up.

[MrH]

I've never driven one above 60 (no roads around here are over 55mph)

I know you live in the middle of no where, but this totally blows my mind.

[giant_mtb]

I know you live in the middle of no where, but this totally blows my mind.

Crazy, right?  Only stretch of road in the UP with a speed limit over 55 is way over at the eastern tip, I-75 between Mackinaw and Canada where the speed limit is 70.  We have no other interstates.  Just U.S Highways (41, 2) and state highways.

The transition between UP and downstate is always fun.  You're going 60-65 for 3 hours across the UP.  Then you can all of a sudden go 75-80 and feel like you're flying.  Then on the way back north, you get back to the UP and 60-65 feels like you're crawwwwwling. 

[BimmerM3]

After watching Narcos I really want an old Cherokee. My dad had two while I was growing up.

I always loved Mustangs and Wranglers when I was a kid. They were fucking cool. Cherokees are sweet too - I almost bought one instead of the Explorer.

I kind of grew out of the Mustang phase. Not quite true with the Wrangler phase. There's a pretty good chance I'll own one at some point in my life.

[AutobahnSHO]

After watching Narcos I really want an old Cherokee. My dad had two while I was growing up.

My dad had one for a while, I love that the visor said "DANGER WARNING CAUTION this vehicle can tip over easier than a car"

[giant_mtb]

Most SUVs and trucks still have that warning in some fashion.

[AutobahnSHO]

Most SUVs and trucks still have that warning in some fashion.

Not as obvious though...

[Rupert]

I have to test drive a Wrangler unlimited version.  I've never driven a Wrangler.  A manual unlimited might be cool.  They say the larger footprint of the Unlimited greatly improves its ride.  Maybe it'll still completely suck.  I don't know.

The only thing a Wrangler is good at is slow technical off road driving. It's variable meh to terrible at anything else from city to highway to gravel. It's loud, it handles like ass, it's not all that well built. I think some of the engine/trans combinations are pretty bad as well, but they may have fixed that by now. However, if you like it then by all means get it, just make sure to test drive it as objectively as possible in all of the conditions you expect to encounter.

BTW, though I think you mentioned it above, the only way you're going to make any vehicle animal-proof is with a pretty serious bumper. A lot of the cheaper bull guards and such out there aren't strong enough to withstand a medium deer at speed, and will just bend into the front or the truck and dent it anyway.

[CALL_911]

Not as obvious though...

My girlfriend's RDX (the fun one with the turbo) has that warning

[veeman]

The only thing a Wrangler is good at is slow technical off road driving. It's variable meh to terrible at anything else from city to highway to gravel. It's loud, it handles like ass, it's not all that well built. I think some of the engine/trans combinations are pretty bad as well, but they may have fixed that by now. However, if you like it then by all means get it, just make sure to test drive it as objectively as possible in all of the conditions you expect to encounter.

BTW, though I think you mentioned it above, the only way you're going to make any vehicle animal-proof is with a pretty serious bumper. A lot of the cheaper bull guards and such out there aren't strong enough to withstand a medium deer at speed, and will just bend into the front or the truck and dent it anyway.

Yeah.  Wrangler Unlimited is not the ideal car for my commute which is long and mostly highway.  I'm just pissed I've wrecked my bumper 3X in as many years.  I'm sure it'll pass (my being pissed off).  Then again, the Wrangler Unlimited Willys Wheeler version looks really really cool and maybe I'll like it as a daily driver.  I see plenty of Wranglers being driven around where I live as daily drivers but that doesn't mean much by itself. 

If I hit a deer fine.  I expect a lot of damage.  But not a raccoon or other small light weight thing. 

[Cookie Monster]

Buying a Wrangler for a long highway commute seems almost as dumb as buying a dirtbike with street wheels for a long commute.


Wait... fuck.

[Rupert]

Test drive the option package you want, especially if there are any suspension or tire differences.

[veeman]

 

Buying a Wrangler for a long highway commute seems almost as dumb as buying a dirtbike with street wheels for a long commute.


Wait... fuck.

Haha.

[Soup DeVille]

I drove a Wrangler for years, some long commutes too. It was a stick, and a four cylinder soft top. Oh yeah, it was also the all leaf spring YJ and had no carpet at all.

So when I say that new ones aren't that bad, I mean it.

[dazzleman]

Last night going about 75mph a small animal jumps out and I hit it head on.  Didn't have time to even touch the brake pedal.  Probably a raccoon or something like that.  In the last three years, I've wrecked my front bumper three times now.  First time an orange pylon from a construction truck in front of me toppled over and I hit it at 35 mph.  Cost me over $500 to get a new bumper.  Second time, my fault, I tapped a concrete barrier at a gas station at < 5 mph and got a big crack in my bumper.  Again cost me over $500 to get a new bumper.  This time, I'm just going to leave it because I can turn my car in (dieselgate) in any condition as long as its running and get full compensation.

Still, this is annoying the hell out of me.  Makes me seriously reconsider getting another coupe or sedan and getting something like a Jeep.  I drive about 50% of the time in the pitch black on poorly lit, 2 lane in either direction separated by a median, highways which run through wooded areas.  Big time dear country.

What road was this on?

[veeman]

What road was this on?

15N (Merritt Parkway going North).  For most of you not familiar, New York State just north of New York City and Connecticut have a lot of just beautiful parkways surrounded by trees.  No big trucks allowed because of numerous stone low lying bridges which cross over ahead.  They're windy, traffic moves fast when it's not rush hour, easily flood during heavy storms, often have construction going on, and have very little or no overhead lighting at night.  The bulk of my commute is on these parkways.

[AutobahnSHO]

15N (Merritt Parkway going North).  For most of you not familiar, New York State just north of New York City and Connecticut have a lot of just beautiful parkways surrounded by trees.  No big trucks allowed because of numerous stone low lying bridges which cross over ahead.  They're windy, traffic moves fast when it's not rush hour, easily flood during heavy storms, often have construction going on, and have very little or no overhead lighting at night.  The bulk of my commute is on these parkways.

Tons of really wacky dangerous on and off-ramps on those roads too, and just when it gets safe to open up a little bit there are cops

[CJ]

My disdain for the Wrangler stems from the fact that the headlamps are just so terrible. There's not excuse for bad headlamps. My Cadillac has terrible headlamps.

[Soup DeVille]

Hmmm. They never seemed any better or any worse than any other non-HID headlights on anything else.

[giant_mtb]

[Rupert]

I have driving lights on the XTerra, high beams are universally shitty (at least non-HID).

[giant_mtb]

Speaking of shitty headlights, I had a low beam go out on me the other night.  Less than a year old.  Now I have mismatched headlight bulbs.

[CJ]

Speaking of shitty headlights, I had a low beam go out on me the other night.  Less than a year old.  Now I have mismatched headlight bulbs.

So replace both...?

[giant_mtb]

So replace both...?

Well, yeah. I'm gonna. Just a shame that I did so a year ago and I already have to do it again. Too much hXc offroading.

[veeman]

Test drive:  Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport.  Both manual transmission and automatic. 

Notes:  Looks fantastic.  Something about simple round no frills headlights is so appealing.  Same on the inside.  Just simple.  Exposed head screws just look so right on this car.  The solid roof option (which is what I would get) has no soft headliner. Perfect. Plenty of headroom.  Wish the base model had a push button start.  It's gonna suck to get used to fishing my keys out of my jacket pocket again if I get this car.  Rear view totally sucks.  I'll have to get an aftermarket backup camera.  The salesman said a lot of people either replace the radio with a radio that has a backup camera (I didn't know that option was available) or get a rearview mirror that has a backup camera option.  The car is not as wide as I thought it would be.  Will easily fit into a standard sized American parking space.  The manual transmission shifter looks awesome.  I love the angle it sits at, in neutral being angled towards the driver, instead of straight vertical.  I also love how the arm of the shifter is taller than that of a gear shifter in a lower slung car.  Local road around town driving is fine.  It takes curves fine and tracks straight.  Not horribly loud.  Perfectly adequate acceleration.  The salesman had me do a bunch of figure eights in an empty parking lot at brisk speed and the car is perfectly stable.  80 mph driving on the highway is another story.  It can be done without too much of a problem but you can tell the Wrangler doesn't like it.  I had to concentrate more and felt like I needed both hands on the wheel.  Would that get tiresome day after day after day on a daily commute.  For sure but it's overall old school rugged charm and looks might make up for it.  I'm very seriously considering getting one. 

Other notes:  The 4WD is part-time.  I always thought Wranglers were always in 4WD.  Its normally RWD and can be shifted on the fly at low speeds into 4WD.  Salesman told me to keep it in 2WD and shift into 4WD in the winter if you can't see the asphalt on the road.  It also has another low range 4WD when you're doing more serious low speed off road stuff. 

Other notes:  I was super keen on getting a car with roll up windows and manual locks.  According to the saleman, if I want side airbags however, I need to get automatic locks and power windows.  I don't know if this is correct but that bums me out a little bit if that is indeed true.

Salesman said this particular dealer was offering lifetime powertrain warranty with the purchase of any 2017 Jeep.  Hmmm.  Really?!

[2o6]

4WD cars don't have a center diff. Using 4WD all the time will literally ruin the drivetrain and be undrivable on dry roads. These aren't AWD subaru cars which are AWD all the time and can do fast speeds.




And yes, solid axles front and rear don't do much for freeway stability.

[AutobahnSHO]

Salesman said this particular dealer was offering lifetime powertrain warranty with the purchase of any 2017 Jeep.  Hmmm.  Really?!

I've seen that offer to a friend who bought a Town & Country just because they got that warranty which was ALSO "one time transferrable".  So they drive the van forever then give it to someone who drives it forever....

+1 on Kevin ^^

I had a "4wd" Subaru (1978) which you had to manually select FWD or 4WD, and using the 4WD on dry pavement would rip the transmission (or differentials?) up.    True 4WD locks all 4 wheels the same speed. Horrible for turning a corner, the inside wheels will travel less distance.   AWD (differential) lets the wheels go different speeds...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Semantics aside, AWD always drives both axles, while 4WD drives only one axle until it is decided to also drive the other axle. 4WD may be automatic/full-time, or driver selectable part-time. For example:
Element has piss poor automatic 4WD, not AWD. There can be no argument.

[Rupert]

Four wheel drive means there is a transfer case, AWD means there is a center differential. In general, 4WD is part time (though there are a number of "automatic" 4WD systems) and AWD is full time. A transfer case (so any 4WD system) turns the front and rear axles at the same speed at all times. Since the front and rear axles want to turn at slightly different speeds in turns (the tighter the turn, the greater the speed difference), and 4WD means they are locked together at the same speed, the wheels have to slip on the ground. You won't likely notice it on regular surface streets (though the stress on the axles is still increased), but you will certainly notice it if you go to turn around. Since the amount of stress on the axles depends on the ability of the wheels to slip, a slipperier surface means less stress before slippage. The system is designed to operate on unpaved surfaces or in snow or ice, so using 4WD on a dry paved surface means extra stress, which over time can cause problems.

Low range 4WD is needed to provide extra torque at low speeds, to slow the vehicle on a steep down grade, and to provide speed control in general, especially in a manual transmission vehicle (no torque converter, so the slowest speed is controlled by the gears + RPMs or by slipping the clutch, which is bad for the clutch). You almost never need 4 low, even in moderately complex off road situations.

The number of driven wheels in a 4WD system is always all four wheels, but with open differentials on a surface that is differently slippery for each wheel, only the wheels with the least amount of traction front and back may be turning/spinning. A limited slip differential will help with that, but may be detrimental for snow or ice driving, as if you slip one wheel you might slip both, so you have less traction and probably spin the car a bit (which is fun when it's intentional). A selectable locking differential allows you to make it so both wheels on an axle always turn at the same speed (as opposed to an open diff, where the same torque is always applied to both wheels) when you select the locked position, and operate as an open diff when you select the unlocked position. A locked differential, unlike a limited slip, means that when you turn (and the outside wheel wants to turn faster than the inside wheel), the wheels need to turn at the same speed, so they slip. Fortunately, like low range, you don't need to lock your differentials very often.

IMO, you should check to make sure you aren't wearing rose-colored glasses before you make a final decision, and also note that it's a bit of a poser move to buy a Wrangler for street use (more than most SUVs), though that hasn't stopped most folks around here.