The New E-Class Coupe

[12,000 RPM]

I mean the car in the oh pee looks good, but I just don't see the draw of these types of cars. The annoyance of being really big combined with the impracticality of only having two doors.

And this is why the coupe has largely disappeared from the automotive landscape

There was an article about the Buick.... Reatta? 204" long with a cramped ass back seat. Longer than a Tahoe and LWB Range Rover!!! It's a real mystery as to why they don't make cars like that anymore.

I feel like the average buying age of coupes like this is very high. For better or worse I imagine when our generation enters retirement we will continue to flock to crossovers.

[MX793]

Probably the Riviera.  Reatta was a small 2 seater.

The big "personal luxury cars" were made unnecessarily large intentionally.  Much like the huge luxury cars of the pre-WWII era (Dusenbergs, Auburns, etc), their size was intended to convey status.

[cawimmer430]

If you read his post again he's not saying it is.  He's saying the w211 is his fav e class but he loves the w204 too

Ah, I thought he loved the "W204 E-Class". My bad!

[BimmerM3]

If you read his post again he's not saying it is.  He's saying the w211 is his fav e class but he loves the w204 too

Yup. Best looking small sedan they've ever made. Stately and elegant.

[cawimmer430]

I prefer the current W205 C-Class. In my opinion this is the best and most beautiful compact sedan Mercedes has ever made up to this point. 

All other C-Classes starting from the 190-Series W201, W202, W203 and W204 have been rather conservative in my opinion. The W204 brought a little emotional design to the range, but on the whole it was still very conservatively styled. The W205, while still being understated, looks very dynamic and also very elegant, especially with some sporty add-ons.

[12,000 RPM]

I love the W201. The best Mercedes had to offer in fun size. I still want to put the 3.2 DOHC in a manual sedan.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I love the W201. The best Mercedes had to offer in fun size. I still want to put the 3.2 DOHC in a manual sedan.

Wrong. 2.3 Turbo Ford with a 2spd Powerglide. For autocross.

[BimmerM3]

I prefer the current W205 C-Class. In my opinion this is the best and most beautiful compact sedan Mercedes has ever made up to this point. 

All other C-Classes starting from the 190-Series W201, W202, W203 and W204 have been rather conservative in my opinion. The W204 brought a little emotional design to the range, but on the whole it was still very conservatively styled. The W205, while still being understated, looks very dynamic and also very elegant, especially with some sporty add-ons.

IMO, Mercedes sedans should be conservatively styled. The W204 manages to be conservative without being bland.

[cawimmer430]

IMO, Mercedes sedans should be conservatively styled. The W204 manages to be conservative without being bland.

True. IMO the W205 also manages to be conservatively styled, but with a little more something else that makes it visually very interesting.

I'm lusting for a second hand S205 C-Class Wagon, diesel of course. 

[BimmerM3]

Overall the W205 is pretty good looking, but the huge nose kills it for me.

[cawimmer430]

Overall the W205 is pretty good looking, but the huge nose kills it for me.

Design is subjective, but I adore the W205. To me this is the first really competitive C-Class - and one of the best-looking Mercedes' in recent years. 

In my experience Mercedes only got serious about the driving dynamics of the C-Class with the facelifted W203. I've driven both the original W203 and the facelifted models and the differences are like night and day. The W204 was also a step in the right direction. The W205 combines great driving dynamics with decent comfort. IMO this makes the car more appealing to both sides - those who want sport and those who want something comfortable. The addition of different trim levels and suspension settings also helps.

[Morris Minor]

Wow. Did not realize that the regular E-Class can only be had with the 4-banger. Kind of like a Camry... but without the reliability.

[cawimmer430]

Wow. Did not realize that the regular E-Class can only be had with the 4-banger. Kind of like a Camry... but without the reliability.

Literally every E-Class taxi out there is a 4-cylinder. If they were unreliable they wouldn't be purchased.

[Morris Minor]

Literally every E-Class taxi out there is a 4-cylinder. If they were unreliable they wouldn't be purchased.

But M-B doesn't play in that space in the USA. The models sold here are in the luxury sector and laden down with all the exttras you can think of. It's the problems with the gadgetry that messes with M-B's reliability stats. The gruff four cylinder engines don't help.

We had a C300 loaner with that engine. It is by no means as smooth, creamy, effortless and silky as the six in our venerable CLK350.

[cawimmer430]

But M-B doesn't play in that space in the USA. The models sold here are in the luxury sector and laden down with all the exttras you can think of. It's the problems with the gadgetry that messes with M-B's reliability stats. The gruff four cylinder engines don't help.

We had a C300 loaner with that engine. It is by no means as smooth, creamy, effortless and silky as the six in our venerable CLK350.

My family has not had these reliability issues with our Mercedes', and we've owned (2002 E320 Avantgarde W211) and currently own a fully-loaded 2010 E350 CGI W212 that already has over 100,000 km on it. My parents are touring Europe with it racking up many kilometers with it. It's a fully-loaded vehicle. It has features on it which I'd never use or want in any car. 

For every person who has a reliability issues with their Mercedes _-Class, there will be 9 other owners whose cars are just fine. Literally. If these cars were so unreliable then people wouldn't buy them, even if the badge is so appealing.

Regarding the 4-cylinders, I've experienced the newer generation of Mercedes' 4-cylinders and in my opinion (and I try to be very non-biased here) they're pretty good for what they are. Their predecessors were worse because they were really rough, unrefined - agricultural (I'm talking about the 4-cylinders in an original W202 or W203 C-Class). Also, they're quieter and smoother than say the 4-cylinder engine in my 1er, which is a gasoline engine but sounds like an older diesel (apparently this is due to the direct-injection system). For my tastes, a new MB, Audi etc. 4-cylinders (and most modern 4-cylinders in general) are pretty smooth. Naturally, they won't come close to an inline-6 or V6 etc. in smoothness, but I think anyone who buys a 4-cylinder car should and would know this, particularly if they are a bit of a car enthusiast. 

[MX793]

My family has not had these reliability issues with our Mercedes', and we've owned (2002 E320 Avantgarde W211) and currently own a fully-loaded 2010 E350 CGI W212 that already has over 100,000 km on it. My parents are touring Europe with it racking up many kilometers with it. It's a fully-loaded vehicle. It has features on it which I'd never use or want in any car. 

You further reinforce that European ideas on "high mileage" and "reliability" are very different from American.  100,000 kms on a 6-7 year old vehicle would not be considered remotely high mileage in America.  That works out to about the average miles driven annually.

Regarding the 4-cylinders, I've experienced the newer generation of Mercedes' 4-cylinders and in my opinion (and I try to be very non-biased here) they're pretty good for what they are. Their predecessors were worse because they were really rough, unrefined - agricultural (I'm talking about the 4-cylinders in an original W202 or W203 C-Class). Also, they're quieter and smoother than say the 4-cylinder engine in my 1er, which is a gasoline engine but sounds like an older diesel (apparently this is due to the direct-injection system). For my tastes, a new MB, Audi etc. 4-cylinders (and most modern 4-cylinders in general) are pretty smooth. Naturally, they won't come close to an inline-6 or V6 etc. in smoothness, but I think anyone who buys a 4-cylinder car should and would know this, particularly if they are a bit of a car enthusiast. 

Even if better than the last generation of I4s, it's still a rougher and less refined motor than their 6-cylinder offerings.  Mercedes is sold as a premium luxury brand in America.  I'd accept that 4-cylinders are acceptable in compact premium offerings.  I personally don't believe that a 4-cylinder is acceptable at any trim level in a premium/luxury midsize car like the E-class or 5-series, but the market disagrees with me.  That said, there should still be a smoother, 6-cylinder or greater option without having to turn to AMG in this class of car.

[12,000 RPM]

Literally every E-Class taxi out there is a 4-cylinder. If they were unreliable they wouldn't be purchased.

Don't talk to us about reliability Mr 8 coil packs on a 4 banger engine

Germans love to say Americans don't know how to take care of our cars because we aren't willing to sink ungodly sums of $$$$ into unreliable turds. The only companies that are still having problems with shit like fuel pumps and injector coils are the Germans. They like to blame customers for their design shortcomings.

[Morris Minor]

Direct gasoline injection makes engines noisier, all that pumping and injection ( ) at insanely high pressures. So it does reinforce the natural lumpiness of non-overlapping power strokes in four cylinder engines.


Manufacturers are putting these in to boost their EPA efficiency numbers, but real-world use figures show the fuel consumption to be no better than the sixes they replace. Think I've seen this both in Consumer Reports tests and C&D.


Volvo XC90 comes to mind: big luxury SUV with a little overworked four slaving away on the other side of the wood & leather dashboard.

[2o6]

IDK Man, I think you guys are off your fuckin rocker. I've driven a lot of cars at the BMW dealer, and I'd take the BMW 2.0T in the 528i over the old as hell 530/535i's I6. The 2.0T is more tractable, has about the same NVH, and mostly most customers don't fuckin notice. It's faster than the old car with better economy.

[2o6]

I think the E-class is 4cyl only until they get that new V6 out.

[12,000 RPM]

I have mixed feelings about the 4 bangers in luxury cars thing. On one hand.... $80K for a 4 banger just seems ridiculous. On the other hand, the "cheap" A6 2.0T is as fast as an old C5 S6 with the 4.2 V8 while getting like double the gas mileage and really not being a ton less refined. I'd probably get a sports car + something like an E300 than an E63.

[93JC]

On the other hand, the "cheap" A6 2.0T is as fast as an old C5 S6 with the 4.2 V8 while getting like double the gas mileage and really not being a ton less refined.

Reality is less important than the perception of reality in the luxury car market. In fact I'd go as far as to say reality doesn't matter whatsoever.

[12,000 RPM]

Reality is less important than the perception of reality in the luxury car market. In fact I'd go as far as to say reality doesn't matter whatsoever.

What % of luxury owners would you say even know how many cylinders their engines have? That's the important reality here. The 2.0Ts get the job done, which is about all that matters to the avg luxury buyer.

[93JC]

If luxury car buyers gave a damn about merely "getting the job done" they'd all buy Toyota Corollas instead, because a Corolla will do everything a luxury car buyer will ever ask of their Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, etc. with a lot less trouble going about it.

Whether luxury car buyers know how many cylinders their car's engine has or not is immaterial: they know enough to know eight is more than six and six is more than four and four-cylinders are mostly found under the hoods of cars for the hoi polloi ergo a luxury car with a four-cylinder is a 'lesser' car. That's all they need to know.

[2o6]

Literally, the only people who care about this argument is CarSpin.


These 4cyl turbo motors are generally imperceptibly different from the NA 6cyl motors they replaced.


You guys are creating this valley of difference between the driving characteristics of these cars when

- it isn't that fuckin different

- no one cares anyways

- these 2.0T engines perform better than the old-school six cylinders they replaced

- idk why everyone puts these I6 motors on a pedestal when these 2.0T are better with an IMO improvement in drivability.

[2o6]

The only 2.0T that I can see causing trouble would be the GM one (Idk what the latest one is) I remember driving a Regal Turbo and being annoyed with how lopsided the power delivery is. Same with the death-date 2011 Saab 9-5; that was a sore spot with the car.


The VW 2.0T and BMW 2.0T are excellent motors however. Ford's 2.0T is also good. I can't speak for he MB, never been in it.

[Morris Minor]

All a sales weasel in a showroom needs to tell the luxury buyer is that the more cylinders and engine has, the smoother and more luxurious it will be.

A  six-cylinder engine has a new power stroke starting each 120° of crankshaft rotation and lasting 145°, i.e. a power overlap of 25°. An eight-cylinder engine has a power impulse starting every 90° and continues for 145°: an even better 55° overlap and extra creamy smoothness.

The four cylinder in the E-Class (& Versa/Corolla) unfortunately actually has a 35° gap between power impulses for the full 720° cycle (720 - (145 X 4)/4). That gap, that deficiency, plus the racket from the GDI, means disharmony.

The engineers will isolate it very well, with sophisticated engine mounts, shrouds, and cabin noise-cancellation, but while you're lying back in your reclining massage seat, you will always know deep down, that there is pain and anguish at the front of the car, and you will never be entirely at peace.


(Seriously I think a straight six is the best in terms of harmonic balance and smoothness. But there aren't too many of those around any more. Is BMW ditching theirs?)

[2o6]

Literally no one cares.

[MX793]

All a sales weasel in a showroom needs to tell the luxury buyer is that the more cylinders and engine has, the smoother and more luxurious it will be.

A  six-cylinder engine has a new power stroke starting each 120° of crankshaft rotation and lasting 145°, i.e. a power overlap of 25°. An eight-cylinder engine has a power impulse starting every 90° and continues for 145°: an even better 55° overlap and extra creamy smoothness.

The four cylinder in the E-Class (& Versa/Corolla) unfortunately actually has a 35° gap between power impulses for the full 720° cycle (720 - (145 X 4)/4). That gap, that deficiency, plus the racket from the GDI, means disharmony.

The engineers will isolate it very well, with sophisticated engine mounts, shrouds, and cabin noise-cancellation, but while you're lying back in your reclining massage seat, you will always know deep down, that there is pain and anguish at the front of the car, and you will never be entirely at peace.

It's more than just firing frequency and gaps between power pulses.  I4s have an inherent secondary momentum imbalance that makes them "buzzy".  Flat plane V8s have the same issue.  Other engine configurations don't have this.  Cross plane V8s, I6s, and V12s have very good natural balance and do not need extra balance shafts or isolators to cope with NVH.  V6s don't have the buzzy momentum imbalance of I4s, but do have a bit of a primary imbalance that benefits from a counterbalance shaft.

(Seriously I think a straight six is the best in terms of harmonic balance and smoothness. But there aren't too many of those around any more. Is BMW ditching theirs?)

I don't see BMW abandoning theirs just yet.  Mercedes' is supposedly returning to the I6 with their new 6 cylinder, part of a modular inline engine family similar to BMW's.

[Galaxy]

I think the E-class is 4cyl only until they get that new V6 Inline 6 out.

Fixed it.