Tesla

[Laconian]

Tesla's production capacity is spoken for with their huge preorder backlog. There's nothing for them to sell to Waymo.

[MrH]

What capacity?

[Rich]

What capacity?

Burn

Also, this
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-test-review

[12,000 RPM]

So much for a touch screen to move your vent direction being a good idea.

[MX793]

You have to use the central screen to adjust the mirrors or steering wheel?

[2o6]

That center screen is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[2o6]

As I said before, this car is such a half assed design, it still makes me upset to see how many poorly thought out features made it to production.

[12,000 RPM]

They just need someone unafraid to speak the truth about Tesla to represent them in court

"If you need a physical switch to adjust your vents you're an idiot who was gonna kill themselves anyway"

[Xer0]

I wonder if C&D held any punches on that review since it was an owner's car supplied to them.  It kinda felt like when they were being complimentary they were stretching to find the words.  Maybe in another 5 years and +10K to the MSRP this will actually be a complete car?

[Tave]

Guys, you're not suppose to adjust the tilt and telescope of your steering wheel unless your car is in a stationary position. No one who causes an accident because they're struggling to adjust it while driving will prevail in court. Please stop manufacturing make-believe complaints and take a tiny step into the 21st century with the rest of us.

[Soup DeVille]

Guys, you're not suppose to adjust the tilt and telescope of your steering wheel unless your car is in a stationary position. No one who causes an accident because they're struggling to adjust it while driving will prevail in court. Please stop manufacturing make-believe complaints and take a tiny step into the 21st century with the rest of us.

Being legally defensible because of a disclaimer in the owner's manual is not the same thing as being safe or practical. Stop manufacturing make-believe standards and take a tiny step into the real world with the rest of us. 

[MX793]

Guys, you're not suppose to adjust the tilt and telescope of your steering wheel unless your car is in a stationary position. No one who causes an accident because they're struggling to adjust it while driving will prevail in court. Please stop manufacturing make-believe complaints and take a tiny step into the 21st century with the rest of us.

Not balking at it as a safety feature, but as a matter of convenience.  Particularly the mirrors.  I frequently will readjust my passenger side mirror when parallel parking to give a better view of the curb (some higher end cars do this automatically).  Being able to reach over to a little joystick next to my left hand is very convenient.  I can find the control by feel and have my eyes on the mirror as I adjust.  Having to scroll through a menu on a screen with no tactile feedback, while looking at the mirror to see where it's aiming, is inconvenient and more difficult.  I fail to see any practical benefit to this arrangement over established controls.

Different isn't inherently better, nor is it necessarily "the future".  Remember when LaserDisc was the future?  Or Zip Drives?  Or how about the gas-turbine powered "cars of the future" that Chrysler built?  Or the Wankel engine, which every major automaker thought was the way forward and which has turned out to just be a quirky oddity.  Different needs to be demonstrably better to be The Future. 

[Tave]

Being legally defensible because of a disclaimer in the owner's manual is not the same thing as being safe or practical. Stop manufacturing make-believe standards and take a tiny step into the real world with the rest of us.

It's probably exponentially safer to lockout tilt/telescope while moving and force the knuckleheads who adjust it on the fly to instead pull over and do it at rest. Especially considering the lack of feedback and general crapiness of the manual controls.

Hell, even if the system lets Model 3 drivers adjust it on the go, that's still probably safer than the manual unlock that wet-noodles the entire column.

[Tave]

Not balking at it as a safety feature, but as a matter of convenience.  Particularly the mirrors.  I frequently will readjust my passenger side mirror when parallel parking to give a better view of the curb (some higher end cars do this automatically).  Being able to reach over to a little joystick next to my left hand is very convenient.  I can find the control by feel and have my eyes on the mirror as I adjust.  Having to scroll through a menu on a screen with no tactile feedback, while looking at the mirror to see where it's aiming, is inconvenient and more difficult.  I fail to see any practical benefit to this arrangement over established controls.

Different isn't inherently better, nor is it necessarily "the future".  Remember when LaserDisc was the future?  Or Zip Drives?  Or how about the gas-turbine powered "cars of the future" that Chrysler built?  Or the Wankel engine, which every major automaker thought was the way forward and which has turned out to just be a quirky oddity.  Different needs to be demonstrably better to be The Future.

Something tells me you'd do just fine, but if you never buy one because of that, then that's fine too. 

It's not different for the sake of being different: the fully-integrated design is one of the reasons why the Model 3 doesn't cost $500,000/unit. They are exploiting a glaring inefficiency in the market by leveraging all this great cheap consumer tech that the industry totally whiffs on over and over and over.

[12,000 RPM]

It's probably exponentially safer to lockout tilt/telescope while moving and force the knuckleheads who adjust it on the fly to instead pull over and do it at rest. Especially considering the lack of feedback and general crapiness of the manual controls.

Way to piggyback on one feature nobody mentioned. Now how about all the shit most people safely do on the fly, like change HVAC vent directions or adjust the mirrors? Tesla is not on trial (yet ) and they are not your client.... you don't have to do this

[MX793]

Cars are durable goods, cheap consumer tech is not.  Not to say there can't be some overlap, but there's a reason the established players haven't been as committed as Tesla.  Same reason other durable goods like refrigerator s, ovens, furnaces, dishwashers, and laundry machines haven't.  Consumer tech goes obsolete and unsupported every 5-6 years.  Cars don't.

[Tave]

Way to piggyback on one feature nobody mentioned. Now how about all the shit most people safely do on the fly, like change HVAC vent directions or adjust the mirrors?

Way to not even bother reading the post you followed.

You have to use the central screen to adjust the mirrors or steering wheel?

Tesla is not on trial (yet ) and they are not your client.... you don't have to do this

I'm not defending them; I'm waiting to hear actual long-term consumer complaints regarding usability and functionaility. Not this hate-filled conjecture based on your personal preferences where you manage to convince yourself that a feature that makes a car objectively safer is somehow a massive liability concern.

[2o6]

All of this would have quickly been nixed and fixed by any design 101 professor, student, or designer worth any salt in the industry.


I have serious concerns over that interior.




I mean, hell - Toyota had credible lawsuits against them for floor mats impeding acceleration and braking. This car is far worse!

[Tave]

Cars are durable goods, cheap consumer tech is not.  Not to say there can't be some overlap, but there's a reason the established players haven't been as committed as Tesla.  Same reason other durable goods like refrigerator s, ovens, furnaces, dishwashers, and laundry machines haven't.  Consumer tech goes obsolete and unsupported every 5-6 years.  Cars don't.

Bullshit. The consumer electronic market has DOMINATED automotive audio and entertainment since at least the 90s. They consistently deliver more durable, more premium, and much cheaper competitors to the OEM equipment. Only very recently have the manufacturers gained any ground, largely by integrating their entire electronic suite to a lesser degree of what Tesla is doing.

And the OEM units STILL suck and we all rag on them for it. Meanwhile Tesla fully embraced the consumer tech market and their unit is light years ahead of the iDrive and clones.

[2o6]

^^ that is a lie tho.


Aside from a few partnerships with manufacturers using a few speakers or amps from outside companies, head unit and automotive audio is at an all time low. GM Mylink is consistently good, as is Honda's whatever the fuck they use, and U connect is arguably the only thing about Chrysler that's worth anything.



OEM Units are great.

[Tave]

All of this would have quickly been nixed and fixed by any design 101 professor, student, or designer worth any salt in the industry.


I have serious concerns over that interior.




I mean, hell - Toyota had credible lawsuits against them for floor mats impeding acceleration and braking. This car is far worse!

You don't think Tesla employs qualified engineers?

You think a design flaw that impedes the operation of the gas and brake pedals is equivalent to moving a non-essential button to a location you don't like as much?

[2o6]

You don't think Tesla employees qualified engineers?

You think a design flaw that impedes the operation of the gas and brake pedals is equivalent to moving a non-essential button to a location you don't like as much?

When it slows reaction time, yes.


And no, I don't. I don't think Tesla is doing any clientele, focus group testing - things that are important to good, accessible design.

[Tave]

^^ that is a lie tho.


Aside from a few partnerships with manufacturers using a few speakers or amps from outside companies, head unit and automotive audio is at an all time low. GM Mylink is consistently good, as is Honda's whatever the fuck they use, and U connect is arguably the only thing about Chrysler that's worth anything.



OEM Units are great.

Usage is down, LIKE I SAID, because more and more manufacturers are integrating the audio unit with NAV, cameras, car settings, online features, etc..., but the units themselves are still relatively overpriced and substandard and receive a ton of complaints. Tesla's setup is more consumer-tablet oriented and is noticeably more responsive and useful than anything else.

[Tave]

When it slows reaction time, yes.

That's ridiculous. MX793 taking .5 additional seconds to adjust his mirror while parallel parking is not a safety risk equivalent to jamming an obstruction between your brake pedal and the floorboard.

Not to mention all of you have assumed that the Tesla's command unit will increase reaction time for these ancillary functions without the slightest bit of evidence that it's true.

[12,000 RPM]

I have never seen Tave this angry about anything

A touch screen for adjusting mirrors is bad design, period

[MX793]

That's ridiculous. MX793 taking .5 additional seconds to adjust his mirror while parallel parking is not a safety risk equivalent to jamming an obstruction between your brake pedal and the floorboard.

Not to mention all of you have assumed that the Tesla's command unit will increase reaction time for these ancillary functions without the slightest bit of evidence that it's true.

Who said it (mirrors adjusted through the central screen) was a safety risk?  I said it was poor design and specifically said it was NOT a safety concern.  Not all poor design is a safety risk.

[MX793]

Way to not even bother reading the post you followed.

I'm not defending them; I'm waiting to hear actual long-term consumer complaints regarding usability and functionaility. Not this hate-filled conjecture based on your personal preferences where you manage to convince yourself that a feature that makes a car objectively safer is somehow a massive liability concern.

And what is your background in design for human factors and ergonomics?  Please reference an ergonomic standard (something from the SAE or other standards organization) that indicates that what Tesla has done with their control interface layout makes it objectively safer than existing control setups.

[Galaxy]

All of this would have quickly been nixed and fixed by any design 101 professor, student, or designer worth any salt in the industry.

That may be true, but the 101 Professor, student, and designer is also the reason why cars are becoming more generic.

[MX793]

That may be true, but the 101 Professor, student, and designer is also the reason why cars are becoming more generic.

Don't conflate aesthetics with ergonomics/human factors.  There's also the regulation factor that's driving a lot of exterior design (Europe's pedestrian crash standards, for example).

[Morris Minor]

... Particularly the mirrors.  I frequently will readjust my passenger side mirror when parallel parking to give a better view of the curb (some higher end cars do this automatically).  Being able to reach over to a little joystick next to my left hand is very convenient.  I can find the control by feel and have my eyes on the mirror as I adjust.  Having to scroll through a menu on a screen with no tactile feedback, while looking at the mirror to see where it's aiming, is inconvenient and more difficult.  I fail to see any practical benefit to this arrangement over established controls.

I have cheap little circular convex mirrors stuck on to the door mirrors that allow you to see the curb, parking space markings etc. They also cover blindspots.