Tesla

[Laconian]

Apparently the ADC manual recommends using a stable reference voltage. Tesla is using a shared rail that's dirty as hell.

[AutobahnSHO]

Potential unintentional acceleration root cause found. Big DC draws cause brief voltage drops which can bias up pedal ADC calibration into thinking that an undervoltaged state is the new baseline. The power steering can induce this state; it draws 100A from DC.

The miscalibrated ADC will think that an accelerator pedal with no pressure applied is floored.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/breaking-nhtsa-petition-shows-tesla-s-sudden-unintended-acceleration-is-real-and-curable-217525.html

WHOA

[MrH]

This is waaaaaay more prevalent, dangerous, and negligent than Toyota's unintended acceleration witch hunt.

Also, 76 people have died in burning Teslas, with a total production of around 4 millions through Q1 of 2023 (probably around 4.3 million now through Q2). with most produced over the last 2 years.

For reference, 29 people died in Ford Pintos with 3.3 million produced over 10 years.

Get this dangerous shit off of the road.

[MrH]

Apparently the ADC manual recommends using a stable reference voltage. Tesla is using a shared rail that's dirty as hell.

Tesla, not using a widely published and followed standard?!

[r0tor]

It seems to me that they use more than 1 pedal position sensor (I think 4 are usually used) and the software throws out an erroneous sensor.

[r0tor]

This is waaaaaay more prevalent, dangerous, and negligent than Toyota's unintended acceleration witch hunt.

Also, 76 people have died in burning Teslas, with a total production of around 4 millions through Q1 of 2023 (probably around 4.3 million now through Q2). with most produced over the last 2 years.

For reference, 29 people died in Ford Pintos with 3.3 million produced over 10 years.

Get this dangerous shit off of the road.

This is what happens when you lose massive amounts of money shorting a stock

[MrH]

Yes, scream into the void

[Morris Minor]

I remember I was on a commute to work in the early-90s and I saw a burning Chevy Lumina. I realize now it was a Tesla.

[GoCougs]

Potential unintentional acceleration root cause found. Big DC draws cause brief voltage drops which can bias up pedal ADC calibration into thinking that an undervoltaged state is the new baseline. The power steering can induce this state; it draws 100A from DC.

The miscalibrated ADC will think that an accelerator pedal with no pressure applied is floored.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/breaking-nhtsa-petition-shows-tesla-s-sudden-unintended-acceleration-is-real-and-curable-217525.html

If the vehicle has all this smarts to log all this data, then shirley the vehicle would also log its calibration cycles and 12V bus voltage, confirming the theoretical scenario leading to unintended acceleration?

As to the calibration, my hope is Tesla followed standard control system design conventions, such as redundant sensors and processors and the like, thereby making this theoretical scenario (accelerator pedal not pressed but acceleration signal generated and acted upon) impossible.

I mean, I hate hate hate both Musk and Tesla with a deep, searing passion, but it can't be this bad there. It just can't be. To me it seems this firm got paid to argue the UA POV, and this major hack was the best they could do.

Also, a 12V, 100A motor is ginormous physically, even for intermittent use. That is also ~1.6 hp which is a LOT of power. Could be true I guess, but doesn't sound remotely believable.

[r0tor]

A brief bit of googling shows the requirement is to have at least 2 APP sensors and 2 TPS.

Instead of this nonsense "research", they could have more easily shown the drivers effected by UA maxing out the brake pedal as a response to show they weren't on the gas pedal.

[MrH]

If the vehicle has all this smarts to log all this data, then shirley the vehicle would also log its calibration cycles and 12V bus voltage, confirming the theoretical scenario leading to unintended acceleration?

As to the calibration, my hope is Tesla followed standard control system design conventions, such as redundant sensors and processors and the like, thereby making this theoretical scenario (accelerator pedal not pressed but acceleration signal generated and acted upon) impossible.

I mean, I hate hate hate both Musk and Tesla with a deep, searing passion, but it can't be this bad there. It just can't be. To me it seems this firm got paid to argue the UA POV, and this major hack was the best they could do.

Also, a 12V, 100A motor is ginormous physically, even for intermittent use. That is also ~1.6 hp which is a LOT of power. Could be true I guess, but doesn't sound remotely believable.

It's hard to believe, but yes, it's that bad there.  Have you read the Handelsblatt report?  Tesla uses Jira for everything.  Huge data leak of their Jira database.  There were 2400+ unintended acceleration reports from customers from 2015 to March of 2022, which were not passed along to NHTSA, which is a massive violation in itself.  The incidents that did get to the NHTSA they closed because Tesla said the throttle was logged to be at 0%.

Whether Tesla is logged that calibration activity or not, who knows.  If they are, they definitely aren't handing it over to any regulatory body.

[GoCougs]

It's hard to believe, but yes, it's that bad there.  Have you read the Handelsblatt report?  Tesla uses Jira for everything.  Huge data leak of their Jira database.  There were 2400+ unintended acceleration reports from customers from 2015 to March of 2022, which were not passed along to NHTSA, which is a massive violation in itself.  The incidents that did get to the NHTSA they closed because Tesla said the throttle was logged to be at 0%.

Whether Tesla is logged that calibration activity or not, who knows.  If they are, they definitely aren't handing it over to any regulatory body.

Jesus, that is absolutely terrifying, including the ineffectiveness of government regulation.

[r0tor]

Instant massive and silent acceleration available at all times in a car designed to distract you from everything but driving... Yes I'm sure people have f'd up.

[Laconian]

I've been using a 100A 12V DC motor daily - the anchor windlass! It isn't that big, maybe about 10 pounds.

It draws 100A when you crank the anchor chain in one direction. If you attempt to reverse the direction before it comes to a complete stop, it draws so much current that the lithium BMS does an emergency shut off and all the DC electronics blip off for about a second. That is huge current - the batteries can do 600A but the BMS cuts the fun at 500! I completely understand the potential for a voltage-flattening event coming from these big motors.

[GoCougs]

I've been using a 100A 12V DC motor daily - the anchor windlass! It isn't that big, maybe about 10 pounds.

It draws 100A when you crank the anchor chain in one direction. If you attempt to reverse the direction before it comes to a complete stop, it draws so much current that the lithium BMS does an emergency shut off and all the DC electronics blip off for about a second. That is huge current - the batteries can do 600A but the BMS cuts the fun at 500! I completely understand the potential for a voltage-flattening event coming from these big motors.

A 10 lb motor is ginormous if you have to stick it under a car to power a steering rack (probably about the size of an ICE engine starter motor).

If it's a DC motor, it self (mechanically) commutates - it'll draw the power required of the load, which means they'll easily burn themselves or tax the power supply if not regulated or limited (i.e., simply hooked to a power supply). If it's a brushless motor (likely for Tesla) it gets more complicated (electronic commutation) such that the system would have to objectively command 100A. This is motors 101 for engineers who design this stuff, so it'd be catastrophic incompetence if this is indeed what is happening.

[giant_mtb]

Incompetence? Tesla? No way.

[AutobahnSHO]

Mav has an electric brake booster, electric A/C pump, electric steering.

Besides many cars having electric windshield washers nowadays (instead of old-school vacuum driven...)

[AutobahnSHO]

Incompetence? Tesla? No way.

LOL

Seems like they don't even test as well as anyone else.

[AutobahnSHO]

funny to see a bunch of "news" articles talking about the Cybertruck doors not lining up. From ONE bad angle picture. We'll see how it looks in person!

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's a good thing Tesla doesn't build submarines. Oh wait.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28004087/tesla-submarine-elon-musk/

Not to mention the failed Thai cave rescue sub.

[giant_mtb]

funny to see a bunch of "news" articles talking about the Cybertruck doors not lining up. From ONE bad angle picture. We'll see how it looks in person!

It looks retarded no matter what. It's a truck for not truck people, similar to the Hummer EV. A status toy for the rich.

[AutobahnSHO]

It looks retarded no matter what. It's a truck for not truck people, similar to the Hummer EV. A status toy for the rich.

I know a VERY salt-of-the-earth guy who works full time as a handyman who still drives his OOOLD Dodge (with BYU sticker on it, here in SC LOL) and was hoping to not have to replace it before he can get a Cybertruck- he has a deposit.

To him, the advantage of running powertools in the bed without hauling generator is pretty huge. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

I know a VERY salt-of-the-earth guy who works full time as a handyman who still drives his OOOLD Dodge (with BYU sticker on it, here in SC LOL) and was hoping to not have to replace it before he can get a Cybertruck- he has a deposit.

To him, the advantage of running powertools in the bed without hauling generator is pretty huge. 

He could just build a giant battery pack and throw it in the bed of his Dodge, and save a lot of money.

[giant_mtb]

I know a VERY salt-of-the-earth guy who works full time as a handyman who still drives his OOOLD Dodge (with BYU sticker on it, here in SC LOL) and was hoping to not have to replace it before he can get a Cybertruck- he has a deposit.

To him, the advantage of running powertools in the bed without hauling generator is pretty huge. 

What is he doing that he still needs corded power tools? Virtually nobody in the trades uses corded tools anymore unless it's a welder or air compressor.

[Eye of the Tiger]

What is he doing that he still needs corded power tools? Virtually nobody in the trades uses corded tools anymore unless it's a welder or air compressor.

Any big work truck is going to have a giant welder/generator in the bed, and an electric or engine-driven air compressor. Work trucks are awesome.

[AutobahnSHO]

What is he doing that he still needs corded power tools? Virtually nobody in the trades uses corded tools anymore unless it's a welder or air compressor.

Big air compressor.   Probably a table saw, too.

He said he has battery circular saw, drills, lots of other stuff. 

[MrH]

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

[Laconian]

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

The call center celebrating with applause for each cancelled appointment really shocked me.

Folks talk about how great it is that Tesla doesn't have dealers, but that kind of abuse only happens when you have the perverse incentives of vertical integration in play.

[Morris Minor]

A pro-Tesla guy talks about some of the anti-Tesla viewpoints. Gaming the range estimates is a big negative. Better to do what the Germans do: underpromise & overdeliver, surprise & delight.
 

[AutobahnSHO]

The call center celebrating with applause for each cancelled appointment really shocked me.

Folks talk about how great it is that Tesla doesn't have dealers, but that kind of abuse only happens when you have the perverse incentives of vertical integration in play.

That's one of the arguments FOR the dealer model. Imagine if everyone had to play by just a few manufacturer's rules?...