Tesla

[GoCougs]

Automatic climate "control" has always been a disaster IME - it's never worked in any vehicle I've ever been in - errant temp changes and vent selection is anything but "control".

Will the Model 3 finally have a good solution? I dunno, but it probably won't be worse.

[AutobahnSHO]

Lol the only time we touched the auto climate in a week was when we switched drivers. Wife likes vents on her, I don't.

Regular work life I have to turn it down first thing in the morning but back up after workout. Then I leave it alone all day.

[2o6]

I live in Ohio where it's not uncommon to use both heat and AC in the same day

[Laconian]

I live in Ohio where it's not uncommon to use both heat and AC in the same day

Lol, wut?

[2o6]

Lol, wut?

7AM - 40 degrees.

3PM - 85 degrees.

[MX793]

Lol, wut?

Same here.  In the spring and fall, it's not uncommon (we probably see ~ a dozen instances per year) for it to be in the high 30s or low 40s in the early AM and warm to a muggy high 70s or even low 80s by mid afternoon.  And if the sun is out, that amplifies how hot it is inside the car.

Places in the Southwest, like Arizona, can be similar in the winter months.

[2o6]

My car's non-tinted windows and the black exterior and black leather interior makes it unbearable when it's any temperature over 70 degrees.

[MX793]

My car's non-tinted windows and the black exterior and black leather interior makes it unbearable when it's any temperature over 70 degrees.

You're apparently more sensitive to heat that I am.  Tint's illegal in NY and my last 4 cars have had black interiors (2 cloth, two leather/leatherette).  I don't typically resort to the AC unless it's in the 80s.  Maybe high 70s if it's raining and I can't open the windows.  It's been mid-80s every day this past week and I haven't used the AC driving home from work.  Did run it Friday, but I was on an hour-long interstate run to a wedding and the buffeting of windows down at 75 mph makes my ears ring after more than 20 minutes.

[AutobahnSHO]

I live in Ohio where it's not uncommon to use both heat and AC in the same day

Yup- auto A/C rocks in those situations.

[giant_mtb]

Lol, wut?

Yup.  Some mornings I'll have the heat on when it's 50F and then have to roll the windows down when it's 75F in the afternoon.

[12,000 RPM]

You're apparently more sensitive to heat that I am.  Tint's illegal in NY and my last 4 cars have had black interiors (2 cloth, two leather/leatherette).  I don't typically resort to the AC unless it's in the 80s.  Maybe high 70s if it's raining and I can't open the windows.  It's been mid-80s every day this past week and I haven't used the AC driving home from work.  Did run it Friday, but I was on an hour-long interstate run to a wedding and the buffeting of windows down at 75 mph makes my ears ring after more than 20 minutes.

A lot of it depends on your average speeds. In NYC I was fine to drive around with the windows open. No biggie at ~20-30MPH. Down here my minimum crusing speed is 45 MPH.

But yea, not uncommon for us to cover a span of 40 degrees in a day during the shoulder seasons.

[MX793]

A lot of it depends on your average speeds. In NYC I was fine to drive around with the windows open. No biggie at ~20-30MPH. Down here my minimum crusing speed is 45 MPH.

But yea, not uncommon for us to cover a span of 40 degrees in a day during the shoulder seasons.

All of the roads between work and my house are 40-45 mph, and I typically go ~5 over.  Exception is the .5 mile of neighborhood street in my development from the entrance to my house, which is 30 mph.  Windows all the way open is fine for me at those speeds, though I usually run with them only 1/3 open since it keeps the buffeting down but still lets good circulation.  At interstate speeds, the buffeting starts to get on my nerves after about 20 minutes.  For a short trip on the highway, I'll run with either the passenger window or both windows cracked an inch or two.  Much less noise than fully down but still decent circulation.

Seems like sedans work better for windows down at speed.  I found in my Mazda that if I cracked the passenger's front window and the driver's rear each about 2 inches, I got excellent air flow through the cabin with surprisingly little buffeting and noise.  I'd barely have to turn the radio up to hear it over the wind noise.  Maybe 2 taps of the volume button on the wheel.

[NomisR]

Considering that my Volt has capacitive touch buttons rather than real buttons, I find it really annoying and wish I had real buttons.  Not only does it make it more difficult to use than standard touch button, but there's always the inevitable lag and uncertainty compared to pushing a real button and nob or switch.  Plus the fact that you can't use it by feel. 

[veeman]

I hate auto climate control.  I like to adjust the climate to what my needs are at that moment which changes every 10 minutes or so.  The sun peaks out of a cloud, I get hot.  I'm getting late and anxious, I feel hot.  I'm wearing open toed shoes vs hiking boots, it affects whether I use the low vent or not.  I'm wearing a shirt and tie vs a teeshirt, it affects whether I use the high vent or not.  I like that control.  Pisses my wife off, but dual climate control helps with that.

[Soup DeVille]

Most of those are the result of bean counters that control the purse strings, and ultimately the final decisions, that think they know more than the engineers.

The kind of idea that might lead to removing vent controls in the name of cost savings?

[Soup DeVille]

Lol, wut?

Midwest temp swings, mang. Really common thing around here.

[GoCougs]

Midwest temp swings, mang. Really common thing around here.

No big bodies of water (well, save for not near the Great Lakes) to mitigate big temp swings like here in the PNW .

[SJ_GTI]

No big bodies of water (well, save for not near the Great Lakes) to mitigate big temp swings like here in the PNW .

I think the direction of the wind matters too. We are right next to the Atlantic ocean but we can still have some pretty big swings in temps (particularly in the Fall and Spring).

[Soup DeVille]

No big bodies of water (well, save for not near the Great Lakes) to mitigate big temp swings like here in the PNW .

Edge of the lakes sometimes seems like it's worse there.

[giant_mtb]

Edge of the lakes sometimes seems like it's worse there.

Indeed.  The shore of Superior can be almost desert-like in its temp swings. 45 at night, 80-85 the next day, especially in the fall.  Even just 5-10 miles inland, you can feel a big shift in temperature and the feel of the air...it's usually ~5 degrees cooler in Marquette during the summer than it is in Negaunee, depending on the wind and all that.  Opposite in the winter.

I'm planning some camping on the shore at the Mouth of the Huron in a couple weekends...I'm hoping I catch a nice hot weekend since the shoreline is always cooler and I'm a skinny dude who gets cold...not looking to carry a bunch of clothing.

[Morris Minor]

My car's non-tinted windows and the black exterior and black leather interior makes it unbearable when it's any temperature over 70 degrees.

Black is not my first color choice, particularly in this hot climate - you just roast (wife's car is black.) White with decent window tint seems to be the way to go.
(But black looks superb when cleaned & polished_

Source (PDF):
https://heatisland.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/Cool_cars_final_LBNL_project_report_v015_2011-08-08.pdf

ABSTRACT
Air-conditioning in cars and small trucks lowers fuel economy by an estimated 22% and
significantly increases tailpipe emissions. The design of vehicle air conditioners is based on the
maximum cabin (soak) temperature attained when the vehicle is parked on a hot, sunny
summer day. Cool colored paints reflect most of the sun's energy in the near-infrared band (0.7
– 2.5 microns) while offering choice of color in the visible band (0.4 – 0.7 microns). Painting
vehicle shells with these cool colors can reduce the soak temperature and thus increase fuel
economy by decreasing the vehicle's ancillary load and permitting the use of smaller air
conditioners. In this report we investigate cool colored paints (a.k.a. "cool coatings") for cars.
This was carried out by (1) establishing a 21-member collaborative research team representing
13 organizations including government, industry and other research institutions; (2) estimating
fuel savings and emission reductions attainable with cool coatings; (3) developing an energy
RD&D framework (roadmap) addressing energy efficiency measures that have potential for
improving the air conditioning performance of cars; (4) initiating development of a database of
cool colored coatings for cars with measurements of solar spectral reflectance and thermal
emittance of over 180 car coatings. An experimental comparison of otherwise identical black
and silver compact sedans indicated that increasing the solar reflectance (  ) of the car's shell by
about 0.5 lowered soak temperature by about 5-6°C. Thermal analysis predicts that the air
conditioning capacity required to cool the cabin air in the silver car to 25°C within 30 minutes is
13% less than that required in the black car. Assuming that potential reductions in AC capacity
and engine ancillary load scale linearly with increase in shell solar reflectance, ADVISOR
simulations of the SC03 urban/highway driving cycle indicate that substituting a typical coolcolored
shell (  = 0.35) for a black shell (  = 0.05) would reduce fuel consumption by 0.12 L per
100 km (1.1%), increasing fuel economy by 0.10 km L-1 [0.24 mpg] (1.1%). It would also decrease
CO2 emissions by 2.7 g km-1 (1.1%), NOx emissions by 0.0054 g km-1 (0.44%), CO emissions by
0.017 g km-1 (0.43%), and HC emissions by 0.0041 g km-1 (0.37%). Selecting a typical white or
silver shell (  = 0.60) instead of a black shell would lower fuel consumption by 0.21 L per 100
km (1.9%), raising fuel economy by 0.19 km L-1 [0.44 mpg] (2.0%). It would also decrease CO2
emissions by 4.9 g km-1 (1.9%), NOx emissions by 0.0099 g km-1 (0.80%), CO emissions by 0.031 g
km-1 (0.79%), and HC emissions by 0.0074 g km-1 (0.67%).

[Raza]

Most of those are the result of bean counters that control the purse strings, and ultimately the final decisions, that think they know more than the engineers.

It is a poor carpenter who blames his accountants...

[MrH]

Most of those are the result of bean counters that control the purse strings, and ultimately the final decisions, that think they know more than the engineers.

I can't say that I agree with that.

[MX793]

It is a poor carpenter who blames his accountants...

I remember one of my engineering professors citing a case back in the 70s or 80s in which Ford was having issues with the shafts for their wiper motors breaking.  Through the course of the NHTSA investigation (in which Ford tried to claim that non-functional wipers weren't a safety hazard), it came to light via a recovered company memo that engineers had identified the issue before production and requested a design change.  The bean counter responded that the nickel per part cost increase would cost millions and denied the request.  The NHTSA did not look kindly on this.

[AutobahnSHO]

I remember one of my engineering professors citing a case back in the 70s or 80s in which Ford was having issues with the shafts for their wiper motors breaking.  Through the course of the NHTSA investigation (in which Ford tried to claim that non-functional wipers weren't a safety hazard), it came to light via a recovered company memo that engineers had identified the issue before production and requested a design change.  The bean counter responded that the nickel per part cost increase would cost millions and denied the request.  The NHTSA did not look kindly on this.

Car makers are businesses, this is how I understand they all function. Otherwise cars would be way better...

[Soup DeVille]

It is a poor carpenter who blames his accountants...

If I can only buy yellow pine or cheaper, don't expect a mahogany and teak grade product.

[12,000 RPM]

My car's non-tinted windows and the black exterior and black leather interior makes it unbearable when it's any temperature over 70 degrees.

I would love a matte white wrap for the G

[12,000 RPM]

Back on topic.... UX designer's beef with the vent direction controls:

http://jalopnik.com/this-first-look-at-the-tesla-model-3s-dash-controls-is-1797857601

[MX793]

Why does it matter that you have to take your eyes off the road to adjust the HVAC when the car is semi-autonomous and will keep itself in the lane and slam on the brakes if you're about to hit something?

[2o6]

Why does it matter that you have to take your eyes off the road to adjust the HVAC when the car is semi-autonomous and will keep itself in the lane and slam on the brakes if you're about to hit something?

Aren't the more basic models NOT semi-autonomous? Isn't autonomous driving as a whole wholly not together? You'd have minimum of a year or more of having to drive the car and live with this nonsense.