evo takes responsibility in the power arms race

[12,000 RPM]

http://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/19890/its-a-shame-that-our-relationship-with-the-performance-car-industry-has-become-that-of

At the height of the Cold War, when stockpiles of nuclear weapons had reached such absurd levels, East and West could annihilate each other umpteen times over in a situation known as MAD, or Mutually Assured Destruction. I feel like we've reached the same point with fast cars, be they hot hatches or hypercars. Where's the sense in making it easier and easier to go faster and faster, when the point at which any of these cars could be exploited on the public road was passed decades ago?

[Soup DeVille]

Unthusiast!

Take a ride in a '90 Firebird (a miserable car that is again: technically too fast for the street) and tell me what the point is again.

[Raza]

He has a point.  The worst part that comes with the insane speed of these cars is that the sensation is also gone.  So you end up flying in cocoon, not having any real involvement in what's going on.  I used to want to upgrade my Z4 to the M model, and I still might.  But it puts such a big smile on my face whenever I drive, why should I rush to replace it? 

I value far more the joy and involvement that you get in a smaller, lighter, less powerful car.  It's why the Miata will always be one of the sports car archetypes and why no matter how much power they shove into a Toyota Camry, it never will be.  Doesn't matter who wins a stoplight drag or who has the more impressive spec sheet in Road & Track, what matters is how it feels when you're sitting in the driver's seat.

[Payman]

He has a point.  The worst part that comes with the insane speed of these cars is that the sensation is also gone.  So you end up flying in cocoon, not having any real involvement in what's going on.  I used to want to upgrade my Z4 to the M model, and I still might.  But it puts such a big smile on my face whenever I drive, why should I rush to replace it? 

I value far more the joy and involvement that you get in a smaller, lighter, less powerful car.  It's why the Miata will always be one of the sports car archetypes and why no matter how much power they shove into a Toyota Camry, it never will be.  Doesn't matter who wins a stoplight drag or who has the more impressive spec sheet in Road & Track, what matters is how it feels when you're sitting in the driver's seat.

100% bang on.

[MX793]

He has a point.  The worst part that comes with the insane speed of these cars is that the sensation is also gone.  So you end up flying in cocoon, not having any real involvement in what's going on.  I used to want to upgrade my Z4 to the M model, and I still might.  But it puts such a big smile on my face whenever I drive, why should I rush to replace it? 

I value far more the joy and involvement that you get in a smaller, lighter, less powerful car.  It's why the Miata will always be one of the sports car archetypes and why no matter how much power they shove into a Toyota Camry, it never will be.  Doesn't matter who wins a stoplight drag or who has the more impressive spec sheet in Road & Track, what matters is how it feels when you're sitting in the driver's seat.

Don't know about Z4M, but Z3M is pretty visceral, in my limited experience.

[12,000 RPM]

It's a balance. I loved the GT86, but I know I would eventually want more power. In its element though, it was divine. Same time though, doubling the HP of the G would not make it twice as fun on the street. If anything, even if the power delivery and sound were the same (which they wouldn't be) it would probably be less fun. I feel like a big part of it is manufacturers are building driver's cars for people who don't really give a shit about driving. For those people "more HP than before" is enough.

[MrH]

He has a point.  The worst part that comes with the insane speed of these cars is that the sensation is also gone.  So you end up flying in cocoon, not having any real involvement in what's going on.  I used to want to upgrade my Z4 to the M model, and I still might.  But it puts such a big smile on my face whenever I drive, why should I rush to replace it? 

I value far more the joy and involvement that you get in a smaller, lighter, less powerful car.  It's why the Miata will always be one of the sports car archetypes and why no matter how much power they shove into a Toyota Camry, it never will be.  Doesn't matter who wins a stoplight drag or who has the more impressive spec sheet in Road & Track, what matters is how it feels when you're sitting in the driver's seat.

Why don't you consider a Miata?

[Soup DeVille]

He has a point.  The worst part that comes with the insane speed of these cars is that the sensation is also gone.  So you end up flying in cocoon, not having any real involvement in what's going on.  I used to want to upgrade my Z4 to the M model, and I still might.  But it puts such a big smile on my face whenever I drive, why should I rush to replace it? 

I value far more the joy and involvement that you get in a smaller, lighter, less powerful car.  It's why the Miata will always be one of the sports car archetypes and why no matter how much power they shove into a Toyota Camry, it never will be.  Doesn't matter who wins a stoplight drag or who has the more impressive spec sheet in Road & Track, what matters is how it feels when you're sitting in the driver's seat.

How engaging a car is is not a function of power, or top speed; or even always weight.
Cars are boring because they're too damned refined, not because they're too fast.

[giant_mtb]

Everybody should just get a dirtbike.

[FoMoJo]

How engaging a car is is not a function of power, or top speed; or even always weight.
Cars are boring because they're too damned refined, not because they're too fast.

How very true.  I miss the vibration on the sole of my foot resting on the gas pedal, the tickle in my fingers on the shift lever, the intoxicating odour of gasoline mixed with the aroma of hot oil, the creaking of the chassis torquing as the rear wheels dug in, the slight shudder of axle hop, the entire cacophony of sound in a rapid crescendo peaking at the moment before each shift. 

[CaminoRacer]

How engaging a car is is not a function of power, or top speed; or even always weight.
Cars are boring because they're too damned refined, not because they're too fast.

Exactly. The problem is that 500 hp is so refined now that the (fake) engine noise has to be pumped through the speakers.

[Cookie Monster]

While I love the Miata and other low power cars (hustling the Subaru around corners because it has no power is hilarious), there's something amazing about being in a lightweight,  high HP car and getting shoved back into the seat while hearing glorious V8 noises.

[Laconian]

While I love the Miata and other low power cars (hustling the Subaru around corners because it has no power is hilarious), there's something amazing about being in a lightweight,  high HP car and getting shoved back into the seat while hearing glorious V8 noises.

High horsepower engines are classic hedonic treadmill appliances. They're exciting at first, but over time they become familiar and... boring. Gotta upgrade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

[Lebowski]

High horsepower engines are classic hedonic treadmill appliances. They're exciting at first, but over time they become familiar and... boring. Gotta upgrade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Pretty much, as are most luxury purchases including high end / luxury cars.

[Cookie Monster]

High horsepower engines are classic hedonic treadmill appliances. They're exciting at first, but over time they become familiar and... boring. Gotta upgrade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Or get something so stupidly powerful you're too scared to exploit all of it.

(Case in point, my bike...)

[Raza]

Don't know about Z4M, but Z3M is pretty visceral, in my limited experience.

I've heard the same about the Z4M. I'm still likely going to make the change, I'm just not rushing out to do it.

[Raza]

Why don't you consider a Miata?

I've driven all three generations. They're really good, but I like the Z4 better out of the box.

[Cookie Monster]

I've driven all three generations. They're really good, but I like the Z4 better out of the box.

Drive the ND. Blows the other 3 out of the water.

[Laconian]

Drive the ND. Blows the other 3 out of the water.

Hell yea boyeee, they're so smoov

[MX793]

Hell yea boyeee, they're so smoov

Smoovness is the emeny of funitude.

[Raza]

Drive the ND. Blows the other 3 out of the water.

Hell yea boyeee, they're so smoov

I'll give it a try, but it'd have to be pitch perfect to pry me away from the Z4. I mean, I've never owned a Japanese car, and it's not because I don't know they exist.

[Laconian]

I'm curious to see what you think.

[12,000 RPM]

Be a little open minded. Brands don't matter that much anymore.

[Cookie Monster]

Clutch/shifter, engine, seating position and visibility, etc feel amazing. Steering  was slightly numb to me off center, but to be fair I was comparing that to my heavily modified NC and the ND has EPS. For having  EPS it's quite good.

[MexicoCityM3]

The article is pretty much bang on.....for your fun car.

However, these uber-sedans have never been about ultimate driving enjoyment - that's nostalgia talking. More about very high speeds in comfort while still being fun on a mountain road.

There are still cars in the *old* size class that are fun. It's just that cars have grown so if you want that you need to shop a class below. Like M3 instead of M5 for example. Similar for other brands.

[Laconian]

Clutch/shifter, engine, seating position and visibility, etc feel amazing. Steering  was slightly numb to me off center, but to be fair I was comparing that to my heavily modified NC and the ND has EPS. For having  EPS it's quite good.

Better tires would probably help too.

[Raza]

Be a little open minded. Brands don't matter that much anymore.

I've still noticed a lot of trends in cars of different countries. Controls are a big one. Japanese cars tend to have lighter main controls than German cars and the secondary controls are placed more or less by shotgun rather than by logic, whereas basically all German cars have their main secondary controls in the same place (a little different with infotainment systems now, but it's still largely true).

I wouldn't discount a car completely because of who makes it (for the most part--I have my biases, we all do) or where it's from, but I'd be surprised if I liked it enough to pry my BMW keys from my hand.

[12,000 RPM]

You get used to the controls. I'm not a fan of heavy inputs- especially steering. From what I've found they rob you of feel and sap confidence. If I have to make a steering correction it's hard to be precise when the controls are heavier. One thing I don't like about the G. But yea with time you get used to almost anything.

[2o6]

I think this is all hyperbole and I think platitudes like this in general will be the death of the modern performance automobile

[Laconian]

Would that be a bad thing? I would love a return to nice cars that do more with less. It's one of the reasons I love the i8.

Making cars interesting by only adding horsepower is akin to overseasoning a dish.