WTF is being a car enthusiast, after all?

[MexicoCityM3]

Well, with Lebowski's M3->CR-V thread for the ages still going on I thought we might splinter this discussion off into a separate thread.

Beyond Cougs' always helpful monday morning psychoanalyzing and financial advice, I think there is room for an interesting debate even with him!

I maintain that all kinds of "enthusiasm" for something imply emotion necessarily. And in that following such emotions, we set aside more practical or "rational" concerns. Being finances, time spent on the "enthusiasm" instead of on other, more prudent endeavours.

In my case, my car "enthusiasm" derives from my relationship with my father. It's been my shared interest with him since I was a kid and bonded an otherwise sometimes quite rocky relationship. Speed and the risk that it entails I must admit that for many years was an outlet for misplaced emotions too.

As i've grown older (read: matured) and especially becoming a dad has cars in a bit of the backburner, at least as a financial priority. But I still enjoy the cars very much. Just yesterday I took the E46 out to stretch its legs on some nearby roads.

[FoMoJo]

As suggested in another thread, enthusiasm for cars, or most stuff with a motor and wheels, covers a wide spectrum.  Personally, I like the machinery aspect of it as well as the competition aspect. 

[MexicoCityM3]

I like the driving aspect, the engineering aspect, the aesthetic aspect. The competition aspect somewhat less.

[VTEC_Inside]

I would never have even questioned that enthusiasm and emotion go hand in hand. Neither of them pay the bills though and without disposable income it is difficult if not impossible to embrace ones enthusiasm IMO.

I find my enthusiasm for most things waning with age. I'm most enthusiastic to just sit outside and breath, or hang out with family/friends. If I can't share an experience, it tends to be rather hollow for me.

[12,000 RPM]

I think it can describe any kind of interest in cars- their history, their engineering, the joy of driving, even following the business of selling cars. With cars being so iterative and constrained in concept and parameters my interest has shifted to the business side of the game. Information age has made that a lot more transparent and easy to follow.

What I DON'T consider enthusiasm is the use of it as an opportunity for elitism and exclusion, which was a recurring theme in that Lebowski thread and in interest groups in general. That's why I don't identify as one. I love many aspects of cars but car snobs have made me not want to actively identify cars as a part of who I am.

[giant_mtb]

To paint with a broad brush, I'd consider anyone who enjoys automobiles in some fashion to be an enthusiast. This could mean going to car shows, watching races on TV or in person, appreciating the rumble of a nice V8, going off-roading, wrenching, building, customizing...I don't think there's some "bar" that has to be met to be an enthusiast. 

Personally...Nobody in my family is as into cars/machines/motorsport as much as me...I had to beg my dad as a kid to let me wrench on his old riding mower that hadn't run in like 5 years and I got that bitch going and spun donuts in the dirt.  Does it mean I'm not an enthusiast because my father didn't teach me shit?  I don't think so.  I spend many of my weekend days driving dirt roads, powerlines, and ORV trails because I enjoy it.  Nobody in my real life ever really uses the term "car enthusiast," but you just kinda know when people are into shit because you start talking about it and suddenly its been an hour of swapping stories and ideas.  I've no interest in being like "oh, so are you an enthusiast?"

[MexicoCityM3]

I think it can describe any kind of interest in cars- their history, their engineering, the joy of driving, even following the business of selling cars. With cars being so iterative and constrained in concept and parameters my interest has shifted to the business side of the game. Information age has made that a lot more transparent and easy to follow.

What I DON'T consider enthusiasm is the use of it as an opportunity for elitism and exclusion, which was a recurring theme in that Lebowski thread and in interest groups in general. That's why I don't identify as one. I love many aspects of cars but car snobs have made me not want to actively identify cars as a part of who I am.

I get what you say. However, there is an element of "us" in any kind of shared interest group. "Clubs" have always been about a degree of exclusion. Either you're a member or you aren't.

[giant_mtb]

I get what you say. However, there is an element of "us" in any kind of shared interest group. "Clubs" have always been about a degree of exclusion. Either you're a member or you aren't.

And that's fine, but it doesn't mean that people outside of the club can't be enthusiasts.

[MexicoCityM3]

And that's fine, but it doesn't mean that people outside of the club can't be enthusiasts.

Absolutely. No argument there.

[shp4man]

There are many different categories of "car enthusiast". Even within some categories, there are variations within that category. We all share a love of automobiles in one form or another, though. We all appreciate other parts of our hobby. Is it a hobby?   

[FoMoJo]

And that's fine, but it doesn't mean that people outside of the club can't be enthusiasts.

I know guys who know absolutely nothing about cars who are enthusiastic about certain cars.  I don't know if they could be considered enthusiasts, but they can usually tell one model from the other; but I suspect it's more of a status thing with them.  Personally, I don't consider them real 'car guys'.

[AutobahnSHO]

I've always loved reading about cars, fantasizing about cars, wishing I could buy other/more cars.   I've always had more time than money in that regard...

[giant_mtb]

There are many different categories of "car enthusiast". Even within some categories, there are variations within that category. We all share a love of automobiles in one form or another, though. We all appreciate other parts of our hobby. Is it a hobby?   

Depends. I wouldn't consider myself a hobbyist, but I'd consider you a hobbyist given your restoration work on your truck.

[ifcar]

To be an enthusiast is to be someone who has more than a passing interest in the subject. With cars, maybe you follow the industry and enjoy reading about cars, or maybe even just cars from a particular brand. Or maybe you closely follow racing, or participate in autocross events. Or maybe you specialize in restoring 1960s Volkswagens. Or maybe you value and speak out a certain intangible quality in the car you own. Or maybe you slam old Honda Accords.

It's probably easier to describe what an enthusiast is not: someone who doesn't enjoy thinking about cars, and does so with only the slight interest or even downright reluctance when forced to do so.

I think one other distinction that comes into play is the difference between a car enthusiast (which could include any number of auto-related interests) and a driving enthusiast: someone who appreciates and values high-performance or otherwise fun-to-drive vehicles. In many cases, these overlap. But someone can be a dedicated scholar of the Toyota Camry and be a car enthusiast without being a driving enthusiast.

I'd argue, though, that the car you own doesn't determine whether you're either type of enthusiast. You can love spirited driving yet pick a dull commuting appliance for the daily grind, or you can buy a sports car just because it looks cool.

[MexicoCityM3]

I think that's a great description Brady.

[GoCougs]

I maintain that all kinds of "enthusiasm" for something imply emotion necessarily. And in that following such emotions, we set aside more practical or "rational" concerns. Being finances, time spent on the "enthusiasm" instead of on other, more prudent endeavours.

IMO you're trying to justify spending on cars you can't afford so that you can dump on others who don't do the same.

[Payman]

IMO you're trying to justify spending on cars you can't afford so that you can dump on others who don't do the same.

[Lebowski]

en·thu·si·ast
inˈTH(y)o͞ozēˌast,enˈTH(y)o͞ozēˌast/Submit
noun
a person who is highly interested in a particular activity or subject.
"a sports car enthusiast"
synonyms:   fan, devotee, aficionado, lover, admirer, follower; More

Funny that "sports car enthusiast" was the example given.


It's defined by level of interest, if you have a high level of interest in cars you're an enthusiast.  For one person that interest might manifest itself in track days, for another reading car reviews, for another spending every Saturday detailing their pride and joy.  For a kid it might be a poster of a Lamborghini. For a rich guy it might be a warehouse full of exotic cars that never see the light of day.

I have found my interest level in cars has waxed and waned over the years, I'll go through periods where I'll read/watch a lot of car reviews, or want to get up and detail my car on Saturday, and periods I don't. I've gone to the Detroit auto show with my dad every year for something like 16-17 consecutive years now, with one exception (I think 2010, when we went to NYIAS instead), but even that trip has become more just an annual weekend for us and less about the show. And generally speaking, as I've gotten older my level of "enthusiasm" for a lot of things, cars included, has tempered.  I also have less time that's spread thinner across my various interests, and find I have to prioritize them.  And I live in an area where daily driving usually doesn't present much if any opportunity to have fun, so whether I have enthusiasm for cars or not, putzing around very slowly in a fast car doesn't seem like a very enjoyable outlet for that enthusiasm.

I agree with sporty that the term should not be exclusionary.  Common interests are best shared, not used as a dick measuring contest, "my enthusiasm is bigger than yours!". Enthusiasm and interest can't be quantified or compared from one person to another, you know if you're interested in something or not.

[Raza]

I dig the snooty, elitist aspect of it. Almost none of you count in my book. ;-)

For real though, Koko hit it spot on. I like sports cars with a focus on driving feedback, dynamics, and feeling. My best friend from high school loves to turn a wrench, mod cars, and race them--he cares more about track times than having the wind in his hair and a bit of sweat on his palms (not from your hot Nomex fire suit or helmet, that is). Some people are into hybrids and electrics--while I barely consider them cars, especially electrics, I can understand why some people would be fascinated with the technology. Who am I to say that they're doing it "wrong"? Even if I think they are, saying it would be immature and childish. Maybe 10 years ago I'd jump up and down on people for enjoying cars the wrong way, but I'm an adult now. I enjoy things the way I want--I want a manual, I want a stiffer suspension, I want an open top car--and I'm mature enough to let other people enjoy things the way I want.

Live and let live--and make liberal use of the ignore function--I say.

[MexicoCityM3]

IMO you're trying to justify spending on cars you can't afford so that you can dump on others who don't do the same.

Thanks for your input.

[12,000 RPM]

I get what you say. However, there is an element of "us" in any kind of shared interest group. "Clubs" have always been about a degree of exclusion. Either you're a member or you aren't.

No, there's not. I probably linked up with other car enthusiasts 10+ years after my interest in them became apparent. The only place I really talk to people about cars is online so IRL I'm a car club of 1. The notion that enthusiasm comes with exclusion or superiority is one of its biggest problems.

[Lebowski]

I get what you say. However, there is an element of "us" in any kind of shared interest group. "Clubs" have always been about a degree of exclusion. Either you're a member or you aren't.

The shared interest is w/ the people in the club. If someone new shows up to you track events / club / whatever, how are they greeted?

[Lebowski]

Thanks for your input.

Lol, imo you've never really been one to "dump on others", not sure where that came from.

[WookieOnRitalin]

I've been on these boards for the last 15 years (almost half my life). I remember being a 17 year old kid in the library at school during lunch hour (I was a deficient in social integration and wanted to avoid the embarrassment of sitting alone during lunch) looking at cars (circa 2002). The Mazda3 and Scion tC were new cars. I never was one for exotics. I became curious about the differences in cars and learning more about them. I went to Car and Driver as a resource to learn more, found the message board there, and then eventually found all of you/this place.

My enthusiasm has more to do with the subtle differences between cars from a design, ergonomics, spacial dimensions, and fuel efficiency perspective. I've been doing that a lot over my life with various topics. You take the basic element (the car in this case) which is essentially is 4 wheels, a power source, a steering wheel, doors, windows and see how different people/companies interpret that basic element.

This is what draws me to lower volume car companies. They create things I find quirky, unique, and perhaps an acquired taste (like myself I guess). I've never found high interest in what most people preferred so when it came to cars, I was interested in weird/different (Saabs, Suzukis). To me, they were the little companies that could. The underdogs. Often, unappreciated and ignored. I felt a connection there and that connection lead to me enthusiasm to learn more about cars.

I could have a conversation with someone about their car.

You drive a (blah blah)? Did you know about this? Do you know they changed this? I thought this was clever. Did you notice the vents here and here? On this car, the power seats are 6 way, but on this other car the power seats are 8-way. Did you notice the stitching on the seats? The leather on this car is not as good as the leather in this car...

I'd go on and on to the point where I think I would lose most people who do not have the same level of interest in the design of their vehicle.

I never got into mechanicals/engineering like some of you, but I do enjoy reading about it with limited understanding I have of the topic.

To me enthusiasm is bringing an interest into a topic that gets you excited. Your eyes grow big when the topic comes up. You might not know everything there is to know about the topic, but you enjoy TALKING about it with others. To me, its a relationship one has in two domains. Their personal relationship to the topic at hand (clock restoring, cars, stamp collecting, fitness, whatever) and then the relationships they create with others about that shared interest.

For that, I am thankful for this place. It's my go-to place for the ins and outs of a topic I find great interest. I enjoy your perspectives as the industry is constantly changing due to innovations, necessity, and trends in consumer interest.

[veeman]

 

[r0tor]

An individuals true enthusiasm is determined by the level of their available resources they commit towards enjoying something - available resources being both time and funding.  What it looks like is determined by the resources available.

Rich and poor can both be automotive enthusiasts if they commit to spending their AVAILABLE time AND money proportionately.  Someone who buys a fancy car and never takes the time to enjoy it is not an enthusiast.  Someone who may spend a lot of time talking but never owning something (if they can afford something that is) is also not a true enthusiast.

[Lebowski]

An individuals true enthusiasm is determined by the level of their available resources they commit towards enjoying something - available resources being both time and funding.  What it looks like is determined by the resources available.

Rich and poor can both be automotive enthusiasts if they commit to spending their AVAILABLE time AND money proportionately.  Someone who buys a fancy car and never takes the time to enjoy it is not an enthusiast.  Someone who may spend a lot of time talking but never owning something (if they can afford something that is) is also not a true enthusiast.

You don't get to decide what other people's level of interest is, what other people's priorities are etc. To think otherwise is to have a pretty serious ego problem.

[12,000 RPM]

An individuals true enthusiasm is determined by the level of their available resources they commit towards enjoying something - available resources being both time and funding.  What it looks like is determined by the resources available.

Rich and poor can both be automotive enthusiasts if they commit to spending their AVAILABLE time AND money proportionately.  Someone who buys a fancy car and never takes the time to enjoy it is not an enthusiast.  Someone who may spend a lot of time talking but never owning something (if they can afford something that is) is also not a true enthusiast.

Wow, so much no here. No, you don't get to define what "true enthusiasm" is. No, "enthusiasm" isn't defined by how much money or time you spend on something. No, carrying a grudge from the deserved thrashing you got in that CR-V thread is not healthy. Your anger, consumerism and exclusionist attitude embody everything wrong with today's car scene.

[giant_mtb]

[shp4man]

Well hell, I just dropped $40 on a set of baby moon hubcaps, so I reckon that makes me an enthusiast.