EVs

[AutobahnSHO]

Yeah my BIL posted that, too. It was just too long a post to get into refuting it line by line.

All you have to do is post one link and say the rest of the post is wrong too:
https://www.saveonenergy.com/electricity-rates/

[SJ_GTI]

Ford looks to be doubling (tripling? quadrupling?) down on EV's. Announced 11 billion investments to increase F150 EV production above what they initially expected.

Hopefully when they start selling all those trucks it doesn't crash our electrical grid. Guess we'll have to see. I am assuming Gougs has will install his own home generator to be on the safe side. 

[MrH]

Ford looks to be doubling (tripling? quadrupling?) down on EV's. Announced 11 billion investments to increase F150 EV production above what they initially expected.

Hopefully when they start selling all those trucks it doesn't crash our electrical grid. Guess we'll have to see. I am assuming Gougs has will install his own home generator to be on the safe side. 

Can't wait for my $33k Ford Lightning.  Thanks tax payers!

[SJ_GTI]

Can't wait for my $33k Ford Lightning.  Thanks tax payers!

Well, the other good news is that when the grid crashes you will be able to power your home with your truck! 

[MrH]

Well, the other good news is that when the grid crashes you will be able to power your home with your truck! 

I can't believe we're at this point.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/23/people-are-paying-millions-of-dollars-for-digital-pictures-of-rocks.html

But also, here's $14k for an electric, 6500 lb electric truck.  But remember, inflation is transitory. 

[SJ_GTI]

Speaking of weight, I was watching a review of the ID.4 AWD model. It was pretty positive, but when they mentioned the weight (~5000 lbs) my jaw dropped. It is bigger than my Golf...(~180 inches long vs my Golf is like ~170) but that is a 55% increase in weight. I always knew EV's were heavier but it can still be shocking to see the numbers.

[r0tor]

I can't believe we're at this point.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/23/people-are-paying-millions-of-dollars-for-digital-pictures-of-rocks.html

But also, here's $14k for an electric, 6500 lb electric truck.  But remember, inflation is transitory. 

The only surprise should be that anyone thinks there is any value in money.

[Laconian]

Speaking of weight, I was watching a review of the ID.4 AWD model. It was pretty positive, but when they mentioned the weight (~5000 lbs) my jaw dropped. It is bigger than my Golf...(~180 inches long vs my Golf is like ~170) but that is a 55% increase in weight. I always knew EV's were heavier but it can still be shocking to see the numbers.

How much of that is due to VW's inexperience with building around EV drivetrains? The Model Y is 7 inches longer and yet 600 pounds lighter.

[Laconian]

The only surprise should be that anyone thinks there is any value in money.

Galaxy brain

[Morris Minor]

How much of that is due to VW's inexperience with building around EV drivetrains? The Model Y is 7 inches longer and yet 600 pounds lighter.

The incumbent players don't start with clean sheets. "Because we've always done it this way" corporate culture... lots of inertia working against them.

[MrH]

How much of that is due to VW's inexperience with building around EV drivetrains? The Model Y is 7 inches longer and yet 600 pounds lighter.

Base curb weights:

Model Y - 4416 lbs
ID.4 - 4559 lbs

I don't think they released weight of the AWD version yet.  It's not a 600 lb difference though?  Also, keep in mind, there's a $14,000 difference in base price before incentives with these two cars.  They're not really direct competitors in that sense.

It's a shame they went to capacitive buttons for so much stuff.  The ID4 is going to be a short lived turd I think.

[SJ_GTI]

A bunch of Rivian truck reviews got put out yesterday on YouTube. It looks pretty good as far as trucks go. Not my type of vehicle though. I want VW to bring the ID.3 to the US...or some manufacturer to make and sell something like it here.

[SJ_GTI]

Watching a first look at the Q4 E-Tron. From what I understand it is a reskin of the ID.4...but man does it look nicer.

edit: YouTube Video from InsideEV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPJuIGfh9H4&t=76s

[Rich]

I'm so excited for the elctric trucks to come out.  All the rolling coal guys are going to have slower and less cool rucks all of a sudden.  I'll be happy when billy bob takes his 84 month loan out to replace his coal roller with an electric truck too.

Something that dawned on me for towing boats would be having charge ports at boat launches/campsites.  You could charge your truck while you're out on the water with your boat/camping. 

[AutobahnSHO]

I'm so excited for the elctric trucks to come out.  All the rolling coal guys are going to have slower and less cool rucks all of a sudden.  I'll be happy when billy bob takes his 84 month loan out to replace his coal roller with an electric truck too.

Something that dawned on me for towing boats would be having charge ports at boat launches/campsites.  You could charge your truck while you're out on the water with your boat/camping. 

Great point LOL.

They're going to HAVE TO put more charging infrastructure out there. Problem is paying for it all- campgrounds may barely have enough juice for minimum utilities, not setup now for the amps needed for vehicle charging...

[afty]

Great point LOL.

They're going to HAVE TO put more charging infrastructure out there. Problem is paying for it all- campgrounds may barely have enough juice for minimum utilities, not setup now for the amps needed for vehicle charging...

Rivian has said they're going to put chargers at trailheads and campgrounds.

[CaminoRacer]

Genesis GV60 looks sweet

[GoCougs]

By 2050 the grid will be completely transformed by residential solar generation.... Also Texas's complete failure at trying to run their own electric grid is there own stubborn and incompetent issue.


Also since you love that money determines everything... The cost of green energy continues to drop by something akin to Moore's law (called Swanson's law).  The price of fossil fuel energy has never done such a thing - which means by 2050 we would be wasting trillions of $ still trying to burn dinosaurs.

No. As proven by decades of trying to make it so, solar panels are too expensive because solar energy is barely dense enough in only the hottest/sunniest/driest (i.e., AZ) whereby if you're a legit environmentalist, you realize that it's not a good idea to have people living there in the first place if but for the extreme energy needs to do so, esp. for water and cooling. Again, you have to remember that at least 50% of the US is somewhere between flat broke and living paycheck to paycheck. 

[r0tor]

No. As proven by decades of trying to make it so, solar panels are too expensive because solar energy is barely dense enough in only the hottest/sunniest/driest (i.e., AZ) whereby if you're a legit environmentalist, you realize that it's not a good idea to have people living there in the first place if but for the extreme energy needs to do so, esp. for water and cooling. Again, you have to remember that at least 50% of the US is somewhere between flat broke and living paycheck to paycheck. 

Oh look, it's the old deny basic facts because it doesn't agree with your political view.  How original.

[FoMoJo]

So what's this all about?  ABB launches world's fastest charger to plug into surging e-car market

The company is launching the new Terra 360 modular charger as it presses ahead with plans to float its electric vehicle (EV) charging business, which could be valued around $3 billion.

The device can charge up to four vehicles at once, and can fully charge any electric car within 15 minutes, ABB said, making it attractive to customers worried about charging times which can run to several hours.

ABB's Terra 360, which can deliver a charge giving 100 kms (62 miles) of range in less than three minutes, will be available in Europe by the end of the year. The United States, Latin America and the Asia Pacific regions are due to follow in 2022.

Sounds like the solved all the concerns about fueling up.

[GoCougs]

Oh look, it's the old deny basic facts because it doesn't agree with your political view.  How original.

Simply take the said necessary doubling of the US electric grid, convert that to kwh per household, now take the cost for such a kwh install * # of houses in the US, and it's trillions $$$ (my napkin says ~$4T).

This of course sidesteps major issues such as seasonal availability (i.e., winter) and the impractical sq. ft of panels needed in the upper latitudes, let alone the sizeable environmental toll of manufacturing many more such batteries + DC/AC converting equipment + solar panels themselves.

Solar generation, like EVs, has been around for decades, but as time has shown, is not viable for mass consumption, even if 50%+ of the US wasn't broke as broke. It's too expensive and the environmental advantage is dubious with the current tech.

Environmentalism starts at home - stop buying SUVs and trucks and stop building big homes and stop flying for every little thing. But of course "environmentalism" isn't at all about the environment. Just ask your favorite politician, celebrity or billionaire CEO.

[Morris Minor]

[snipped] But of course "environmentalism" isn't at all about the environment. Just ask your favorite politician, celebrity or billionaire CEO.[/snipped]

We saw that in glaring lights at the closed UAW shop White House "EV Summit." One American company, which looks like it's going to soon hit a 1M/year EV run rate, was not even mentioned, let alone invited.

[r0tor]

Simply take the said necessary doubling of the US electric grid, convert that to kwh per household, now take the cost for such a kwh install * # of houses in the US, and it's trillions $$$ (my napkin says ~$4T).

This of course sidesteps major issues such as seasonal availability (i.e., winter) and the impractical sq. ft of panels needed in the upper latitudes, let alone the sizeable environmental toll of manufacturing many more such batteries + DC/AC converting equipment + solar panels themselves.

Solar generation, like EVs, has been around for decades, but as time has shown, is not viable for mass consumption, even if 50%+ of the US wasn't broke as broke. It's too expensive and the environmental advantage is dubious with the current tech.

Environmentalism starts at home - stop buying SUVs and trucks and stop building big homes and stop flying for every little thing. But of course "environmentalism" isn't at all about the environment. Just ask your favorite politician, celebrity or billionaire CEO.

.... Continuing to completely ignore the fact solar prices continue to get significantly cheaper every year.  Your napkin price based on today's price can be used to wipe your backside in a couple years - meanwhile the price of fossil fuel sourced energy will never significantly decrease.

[GoCougs]

.... Continuing to completely ignore the fact solar prices continue to get significantly cheaper every year.  Your napkin price based on today's price can be used to wipe your backside in a couple years - meanwhile the price of fossil fuel sourced energy will never significantly decrease.

By chance do you know what an asymptote is? Prices can't decrease forever. Also, don't forget that the two other major costs of an install (labor and inverter) will NOT benefit from scale (i.e., will not decrease in price with time or volume), and that the residential install costs bandied about do not include battery reserve, which still means notable investment in the grid to handle the peak loading (bad weather, night time, etc.) needed even presuming a notable uptick in residential power generation.

The numbers don't lie, and simply hoping the numbers change in the future is a dangerous strategy, esp. when used to make policy in the short term that upends many millions of lives (CA's requirement for solar panel install for new homes).

[r0tor]

And you conclusion that solar prices have hit as asymptote is based on?

Also most home solar now does include battery storage - which is also getting exponentially cheaper year over year.

[veeman]

Off topic but the current massive electric grid problem affecting China makes me very dubious they're going to be able to support a majority EV car transport system.  The EV grid there can't even support their factories right now. 

[MrH]

Renewables aren't viable without nuclear supporting it. The supply is too variable to meet the variance in demand without massive, massive overcapacity.  Anyone who wants to talk renewables while also shutting down nuclear is either a massive grifter or idiot. Likely both.

[Morris Minor]

Renewables aren't viable without nuclear supporting it. The supply is too variable to meet the variance in demand without massive, massive overcapacity.  Anyone who wants to talk renewables while also shutting down nuclear is either a massive grifter or idiot. Likely both.

Agreed - mega-battery storage is helpful for trying to iron out the feast-or-famine nature of renewables, but we need something constant & consistent to turn the base load turbines.

More nukes - fewer kooks.

[SJ_GTI]

Renewables aren't viable without nuclear supporting it. The supply is too variable to meet the variance in demand without massive, massive overcapacity.  Anyone who wants to talk renewables while also shutting down nuclear is either a massive grifter or idiot. Likely both.

That depends on which renewables you are talking about. Solar and Wind? Large variances day to day, week to week, and even month to month. Hydro, Geothermal, Tidal are all pretty consistent.

[r0tor]

Renewables aren't viable without nuclear supporting it. The supply is too variable to meet the variance in demand without massive, massive overcapacity.  Anyone who wants to talk renewables while also shutting down nuclear is either a massive grifter or idiot. Likely both.

Nuclear is about the worst power generation at varying loads