EVs

[MrH]

Nuclear is about the worst power generation at varying loads

You didn't understand my post at all if that's your reply.

[SJ_GTI]

You didn't understand my post at all if that's your reply.

I think you guys are talking over each other a bit.

R0tor is referring to the need of a power plant to vary its output depending on demand. I think he is making the point that nuclear power is more difficult to take up and down with demand. I have no idea if that is true or not with modern nuclear power plants.

You are talking about the unpredictability within the variability of renewables, which cannot be easily matched to the variability of demand (which is more predictable).

[MrH]

You can't have both the demand and supply with big variation, with the variables being completely independent of each other.  You need to have some sort of baseline supply that's constant, which is what nuclear provides.

I wasn't suggesting that we vary nuclear output, but that nuclear provides a base with which you can add other green renewables to.

[r0tor]

You can't have both the demand and supply with big variation, with the variables being completely independent of each other.  You need to have some sort of baseline supply that's constant, which is what nuclear provides.

I wasn't suggesting that we vary nuclear output, but that nuclear provides a base with which you can add other green renewables to.

It never makes economic sense to take a renewable offline.

The grid itself in its current state has little to no energy storage, so at any second the supply needs to closely match the demand.

Once you have a significant amount of solar, traditional assets need to be taken offline or reduce power during daylight hours and then be brought back online at night.  Nuclear is about the worst form of power generation in the world to do this

[GoCougs]

Renewables aren't viable without nuclear supporting it. The supply is too variable to meet the variance in demand without massive, massive overcapacity.  Anyone who wants to talk renewables while also shutting down nuclear is either a massive grifter or idiot. Likely both.

Nuclear, or the horror, fossil fuels, and nuclear's future in the US does not look good.

Renewables can only ever be a supplement, even outside the dubious environmental advantages and significant costs.

[SJ_GTI]

You guys keep using the word renewables as if they are all the same.

[MrH]

It never makes economic sense to take a renewable offline.

The grid itself in its current state has little to no energy storage, so at any second the supply needs to closely match the demand.

Once you have a significant amount of solar, traditional assets need to be taken offline or reduce power during daylight hours and then be brought back online at night.  Nuclear is about the worst form of power generation in the world to do this

The amount of storage required to deal with the fluctuations of most renewables is so massive, it's not feasible.  You need a base form of energy production and can use renewables as supplemental, but the idea that we can go 100% to renewable energy sources without nuclear isn't feasible.

[r0tor]

The amount of storage required to deal with the fluctuations of most renewables is so massive, it's not feasible.  You need a base form of energy production and can use renewables as supplemental, but the idea that we can go 100% to renewable energy sources without nuclear isn't feasible.

You can't cycle nuclear on/off.  It's of little use once you hit a critical amount of solar+renewables.

[FoMoJo]

You can't cycle nuclear on/off.  It's of little use once you hit a critical amount of solar+renewables.

Yet countries still invest billions in developing fusion generators.

[Laconian]

Yet countries still invest billions in developing fusion generators.

I think that fusion won't have the same kind of chain reaction inertia or safety issues that fission has.

[CaminoRacer]

You can't cycle nuclear on/off.  It's of little use once you hit a critical amount of solar+renewables.

France gets 70% of it's power from nuclear. They can use solar or other renewables for the other 30%. Much more feasible than solar and other renewables making up 100% of the power generation. Storage solutions for 30% of the grid is more reasonable than needing up to 100% of the grid's nighttime capacity stored during the day when the solar panels are generating juice.

[GoCougs]

I think that fusion won't have the same kind of chain reaction inertia or safety issues that fission has.

Plus no associated radiation (for fuel or byproducts). Thing is it's an unstable, ultra high energy process (ginormous temps and pressures) that has proven virtually impossible to replicate on Earth in any meaningful amount let alone with a net energy output.

It's still a bad idea probably even if it did work. Not only would it consolidate energy production into some national or worldwide authority, I wouldn't be surprised if it led to a net-negative environmental toll in bigger homes, more cars, more HVAC, more electronics, etc.

[MrH]

France gets 70% of it's power from nuclear. They can use solar or other renewables for the other 30%. Much more feasible than solar and other renewables making up 100% of the power generation. Storage solutions for 30% of the grid is more reasonable than needing up to 100% of the grid's nighttime capacity stored during the day when the solar panels are generating juice.

The math is actually funny when it's worked out.  The money required, the amount of space, and the amount of natural resources is comically large.  I think it would take an entire year's GDP of California to create just the storage for that state alone.  Then doesn't include the renewables to make the electricity either.

[r0tor]

The math is actually funny when it's worked out.  The money required, the amount of space, and the amount of natural resources is comically large.  I think it would take an entire year's GDP of California to create just the storage for that state alone.  Then doesn't include the renewables to make the electricity either.

On a per MW basis, the price to build nuclear is currently about 100x more than solar.

Pretty funny

[Payman]

So we aren't getting the awesome Honda e in North America. Honda is instead preparing a small e-SUV for us for 2024, because that's what we buy.

We deserve this I guess. 

[MrH]

On a per MW basis, the price to build nuclear is currently about 100x more than solar.

Pretty funny

Source?

[r0tor]

Source?

Life?  Last I checked the only current nuke project in the US is costing >$23 Billion for 1,100 MW

[MrH]

Every source I've said says your "Life" source is wrong

[r0tor]

Every source I've said says your "Life" source is wrong

I know you seem to live in an alternate Twitter based reality

[CaminoRacer]

This is the latest project I've seen. $4B for 345-500 megawatts (variable generation)

https://www.5280.com/2021/08/could-a-proposed-wyoming-nuclear-reactor-hint-at-colorados-energy-future/

[r0tor]

This is the latest project I've seen. $4B for 345-500 megawatts (variable generation)

https://www.5280.com/2021/08/could-a-proposed-wyoming-nuclear-reactor-hint-at-colorados-energy-future/

That's a vaporware estimate....

Here is the current clustefuck  in progress .. looks like I'm behind on times, it's up to $27 Billion, behind schedule, and no abort button
https://apnews.com/article/business-environment-and-nature-georgia-90bbe5cc8e3a1a6077b9e4318e2bbf7e

[Laconian]

I think the new EV Hummer is monstrous. I do not want them to succeed. H2s were bad enough, they were slow asshole trucks usually driven in anger by assholes. Now we have asshole trucks that will weigh five tons and accelerate to 60 in 3 seconds. That much mass plus the bumper height means pedestrians will be atomized on impact.

Hummers are to EV what bitcoin mining is to NVIDIA 3080Tis. So much technological potential turned into social and environmental poison.

[r0tor]

Agreed

[Laconian]

I had a heated argument with a friend/coworker about it. He's so dazzled by the specsheet and the affordable MSRP. I said the latter is the scary part. Like nuclear weapons or toxic drug labs, there are things that should not be democratized into the hands of the masses.

[r0tor]

I can't wait to see dumbasses crab walk around town

[Soup DeVille]

Operated a crane that had 4-wheel steering for a while; its kinda fun actually.

[GoCougs]

I think the new EV Hummer is monstrous. I do not want them to succeed. H2s were bad enough, they were slow asshole trucks usually driven in anger by assholes. Now we have asshole trucks that will weigh five tons and accelerate to 60 in 3 seconds. That much mass plus the bumper height means pedestrians will be atomized on impact.

Hummers are to EV what bitcoin mining is to NVIDIA 3080Tis. So much technological potential turned into social and environmental poison.

I think WtP are safe - $80K+ EVs that aren't a Tesla will sell only in token volumes. 

The H2 and H3 were some of the worst vehicles ever produced by Detroit - not so much what you actually got or who bought them - but just the stench of PoserSPIN (of the military H1) is so much cringe.

[Morris Minor]

I think of all the people who are told to engineer efficient lightness & aerodynamic slipperiness in their designs.  Meanwhile the neanderthals at GM take time off from picking lice out of their body hair to come up with a lead brick for lunks
GM = tits up by 2031.

[AutobahnSHO]

I think WtP are safe - $80K+ EVs that aren't a Tesla will sell only in token volumes. 

The H2 and H3 were some of the worst vehicles ever produced by Detroit - not so much what you actually got or who bought them - but just the stench of PoserSPIN (of the military H1) is so much cringe.

I agree with you but know that the real HMMWV (and H1) are ridiculously capable off-road vehicles (and suck on-road).

[SJ_GTI]

I think the new EV Hummer is monstrous. I do not want them to succeed. H2s were bad enough, they were slow asshole trucks usually driven in anger by assholes. Now we have asshole trucks that will weigh five tons and accelerate to 60 in 3 seconds. That much mass plus the bumper height means pedestrians will be atomized on impact.

Hummers are to EV what bitcoin mining is to NVIDIA 3080Tis. So much technological potential turned into social and environmental poison.

I am watching a review of it on YouTube now. It seems very impressive.

Its large, but I don't think it is that much bigger than the F150 EV will be. If I understand correctly the platform this hummer is using will also be used in Cadillacs and other GM EV's (Suburban/Tahoe/Silverado/Sierra I expect).

Edit: poking aorund, the Hummer EV weighs ~9000 lbs, the Rivian R1T weighs ~8500 lbs. I haven't seen anything for the F150, but I really suspect it will be closer to the hummer. All of these electric trucks/SUV's are really heavy though.