EVs

[NomisR]

probably in the low 6 figure range.

[CaminoRacer]

I think I saw my first Model Y today

[NomisR]

I think I saw my first Model Y today

I'm seeing a lot of them here now.. at first glance, they look like Model 3s.. but just bloated..

[MrH]

Lucid Air looks awesome.  Company is run by actual car guys too.

9.9 1/4 mile, 500+ mile range, going to be probably $200k+.  This is the direction Tesla should have gone.

[afty]

9.9s 1/4-mile is pretty eye opening.  Here's the complete list of production cars that can run sub-10-second quarters:

Porsche 918 Spyder - 9.716 sec at 230 km/h (142.9 mph)
McLaren P1 - 9.8 sec at 239.6 km/h (148.9 mph)
Bugatti Veyron Super Sport - 9.9 sec at 239 km/h (148.5 mph)
McLaren 720S - 9.9 sec at 238.5 km/h (148.2 mph)
Bugatti Chiron - 9.99 sec at 242.5 km/h (150.7 mph)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration#By_1/4_mile_or_400_metre_times_(11_seconds_or_less)

[CaminoRacer]

I'm shocked that's it's topped the Taycan.

[r0tor]

EVs are a bit weird... There is little efficiency downside to building a 10s car.  Little in the way of additional complexity as well - the entire power train can be scaled....

But is there really a need to have an abundance of really expensive 10s family sedans?  Especially when you are carrying around a defined amount of energy storage that takes fairly long to recharge?

[NomisR]

EVs are a bit weird... There is little efficiency downside to building a 10s car.  Little in the way of additional complexity as well - the entire power train can be scaled....

But is there really a need to have an abundance of really expensive 10s family sedans?  Especially when you are carrying around a defined amount of energy storage that takes fairly long to recharge?

EVs with everything being modular, it should be really easy to scale things appropriately with different electric motors and software.  This would be more similar to assembling a computer than actually building a regular car.

[AutobahnSHO]

The more efficient the motors, traction, and battery pack for a drag strip run, the more efficient for regular driving, too.

At least more than gas motors mated to transmissions that have to balance efficiency and performance...

[afty]

EVs are a bit weird... There is little efficiency downside to building a 10s car.  Little in the way of additional complexity as well - the entire power train can be scaled....

But is there really a need to have an abundance of really expensive 10s family sedans?  Especially when you are carrying around a defined amount of energy storage that takes fairly long to recharge?

That's what I like about EVs.  Ridiculous performance with no compromise in efficiency or driveability.

[Morris Minor]

As things stand, because of the the crappy public charging infrastructure, the deal killer with EVs is that you are tied to a radius from your home of no more than half their real-world range on a full charge. For now they are very expensive local-run grocery getters. PHEVs are the way to go.
This does not apply to Teslas.

[2o6]

The chinese government has really put a lot of energy into their home manufacturers to produce EV's, and they're rapidly becoming more and more competent.


Some of my favorites are the:

GAC Aion V (GAC makes some Honda and Toyota models in China, and they also sell their own brand as well)

The Aion V has nowhere from a 60 to 80 KW battery, and is FWD.



GAC Aion S is also sold as a Toyota iA5 in China, similar to the Aion V, but in a sedan form and has a smaller motor and option of a 50KW battery



GAC Aion LX is the topmost flagship model, coming with a 90KW battery, and two motors, front and rear



The Hozon Nezha U is also a pretty attractive looking thing



BYD has a new battery design that lowers the floor, allowing to make this flagship coupe/sedan = the BYD Han




The Baojun E300 is made by SAIC and GM, and it's one of my favorite designs out right now

[Galaxy]

That is strange. Mr Tesla, and Mr. VW.

[afty]

Lucid Air looks awesome.  Company is run by actual car guys too.

9.9 1/4 mile, 500+ mile range, going to be probably $200k+.  This is the direction Tesla should have gone.

You were pretty close on the price prediction: "The Air will come in a series of variants, starting with the Dream, which is comparable to a performance configuration. The Dream Edition will cost $161,500 after federal tax credits."

https://www.teslarati.com/lucid-air-price/

[Laconian]

GM invested $2 in Nikola. Aren't they supposed to be a scammy vaporware company?

[Morris Minor]

GM invested $2 in Nikola. Aren't they supposed to be a scammy vaporware company?

I dunno what to think anymore with all these startups. It's like a rerun of exactly 100 years-ago: lots of now-forgotten manufacturers getting into the automobile business, quickly falling by the wayside as the big players took shape.

[ChrisV]

As things stand, because of the the crappy public charging infrastructure, the deal killer with EVs is that you are tied to a radius from your home of no more than half their real-world range on a full charge. For now they are very expensive local-run grocery getters. PHEVs are the way to go.
This does not apply to Teslas.

I've found that, living with the Bolt, that 300+ mile range is more than enough for LONG drives. I've spent 6 hours driving the car and got home with 1/4 range left. That's a day of running all over the Chesapeake Bay area, from rural southern PA all around to northern VA and rural southern MD. If your thinking that it's only useful for grocery getting in your immediate area, you're wrong.



I have a PHEV (the Volt) and the full BEV (the Bolt) and guess which one is the longer distance choice? The Bolt.

And since it was only $25k, it was not "very expensive," and fills the same role that a hot hatch would in my household.

[Laconian]

You have autofollow cruise control? Ah, my brother would kill for that. He bought his Bolt too early, I think.

He goes on big road trips in his Bolt very often. Lots of trips halfway across the state.

No complaints about the Bolt whatsoever, but he's bitter about how Leaf owners abuse their charge-for-free privileges by camping on chargers until their batteries are brought to 100.0%.

[AutobahnSHO]

Now that I have a garage, I would totally replace Impreza with a Bolt!! I wish there were an AWD version but oh well.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Now that I have a garage, I would totally replace Impreza with a Bolt!! I wish there were an AWD version but oh well.

Guess what, you don't need AWD very often in Souf Caroliner

[CaminoRacer]

You have autofollow cruise control? Ah, my brother would kill for that. He bought his Bolt too early, I think.

Same. But I needed a car when I needed a car, so oh well.

[AutobahnSHO]

Guess what, you don't need AWD very often in Souf Caroliner

Man, when it rains AWD just goes while everyone else is crawling being careful and junk.

[Morris Minor]

I've found that, living with the Bolt, that 300+ mile range is more than enough for LONG drives. I've spent 6 hours driving the car and got home with 1/4 range left. That's a day of running all over the Chesapeake Bay area, from rural southern PA all around to northern VA and rural southern MD. If your thinking that it's only useful for grocery getting in your immediate area, you're wrong.

I have a PHEV (the Volt) and the full BEV (the Bolt) and guess which one is the longer distance choice? The Bolt.

And since it was only $25k, it was not "very expensive," and fills the same role that a hot hatch would in my household.

Do you ever use public chargers? I've heard lots of stories about them not working, or being near permanently 100%-occupied. And I'm not yet persuaded on advertised ranges - 75 mph running cabin heat or a/c  pushes up depletion rates.

I don't have an EV, but would love to get one. Meanwhile I'm being an armchair sceptic.

[CaminoRacer]

Do you ever use public chargers? I've heard lots of stories about them not working, or being near permanently 100%-occupied. And I'm not yet persuaded on advertised ranges - 75 mph running cabin heat or a/c  pushes up depletion rates.

I don't have an EV, but would love to get one. Meanwhile I'm being an armchair sceptic.

IME, you quickly learn which public chargers are good & which aren't. Same as learning which gas stations are good & which ones are sketchy. I think the 100% occupancy problem is generally limited to California. I'm an early adopter here in Utah so generally chargers aren't hard to find. And I haven't needed to use a public charger since I've finally got a garage to charge in - the Level 1 slow charger is plenty for our commutes (less than 40 miles/day)

[MrH]

I've found that, living with the Bolt, that 300+ mile range is more than enough for LONG drives. I've spent 6 hours driving the car and got home with 1/4 range left. That's a day of running all over the Chesapeake Bay area, from rural southern PA all around to northern VA and rural southern MD. If your thinking that it's only useful for grocery getting in your immediate area, you're wrong.



I have a PHEV (the Volt) and the full BEV (the Bolt) and guess which one is the longer distance choice? The Bolt.

And since it was only $25k, it was not "very expensive," and fills the same role that a hot hatch would in my household.

I wouldn't worry about any single day driving with 300 miles range.  My issue would be weekend trips.  Even something like going to Louisville for the weekend: It's 152 miles from my house.  I would likely need to charge there.  When I have the confidence I would have a charger at a hotel, I could see myself making the jump.  But if I have to rent a car every time I want to go away for a weekend, that's too big of an inconvenience for me.

[Laconian]

My husband keeps saying that if Subaru makes an AWD EV, he'd get it.

But does it really matter? Subaru's competitive advantage is a full-blooded AWD drivetrain that starts at having two output driveshafts. But AWD in an EVs just means wiring up more motors - not much fancy IP needed there, except for maybe motor control software?

[SJ_GTI]

My husband keeps saying that if Subaru makes an AWD EV, he'd get it.

But does it really matter? Subaru's competitive advantage is a full-blooded AWD drivetrain that starts at having two output driveshafts. But AWD in an EVs just means wiring up more motors - not much fancy IP needed there, except for maybe motor control software?

I've told my brother that I will switch to Subaru (and use that employee pricing) once they come out with an EV.

You are right though, AWD becomes a software issue instead of hardware with EV's (at least that is my impression).

[Laconian]

I don't know how much knowledge can be transferred across domains from ICE to EV. As good as Subie's AWD is, the opportunities afforded by high bandwidth control over electric motors really necessitate a from-scratch reengineering effort.

[AutobahnSHO]

I wouldn't worry about any single day driving with 300 miles range.  My issue would be weekend trips.  Even something like going to Louisville for the weekend: It's 152 miles from my house.  I would likely need to charge there.  When I have the confidence I would have a charger at a hotel, I could see myself making the jump.  But if I have to rent a car every time I want to go away for a weekend, that's too big of an inconvenience for me.

Which is why I STRONGLY consider getting a Bolt- I have minivan for long trips, Miata for short/ fun trips or commuting, and Bolt would be a fantastic commuter/ errand car. I have garage to charge in though.

[AutobahnSHO]

I don't know how much knowledge can be transferred across domains from ICE to EV. As good as Subie's AWD is, the opportunities afforded by high bandwidth control over electric motors really necessitate a from-scratch reengineering effort.

Totally! Subaru's advantage has faded a LOT as everyone else has been doing AWD and EV will be a totally new ballgame.

Subaru "should" start with FWD-gas/ rear-EV hybrid setups?....   I mean I know they have a hybrid already but just seems like new ways of thinking should be employed. (I think the new Sienna will use that setup.)