2022 GR 86 v 2022 GTI v 2021 Miata

[Rich]

https://youtu.be/QaR843im04A

This is my favorite review video ever. I thoroughly enjoy the information and the production value is unexpectedly good.

[MX793]

Sounds promising.  Apparently they've switched to synthesized engine sounds in the cabin and early reports are it can't be shut off.  Then again, it may be preferable to the natural sound of the FA (which, to me, are as offensive as nails on a chalk board).  My neighbor has a late model WRX and every time I hear it start I want to grind my teeth.

[SJ_GTI]

Sounds like they did a good job updating it. Not sure it is a car I would seriously consider (since I already have a Z3 as a second car) but I can see the attraction.

[MX793]

Just noticed the fuel economy.  19/26 for the MT.  Seriously?  That's worse than my last Mustang, which weighed like 600 lbs more and had 50% more engine.

[MrH]

So there's an S2000 for sale in Pennslyvania that's exactly the same as mine (color, year, mileage), just slightly better condition.  They're asking $25,500

If it actually goes for that, I'm tempted to list mine for $24k or $25k, and picking up a new 86.  This car seems like a total winner.  Fixes all the issues I had with my first gen BRZ, which I loved.  I particularly loved the way it looked and the color.  I would take a second look at it every time I parked it, and I think this second gen is even better looking.

I only sold it and bought and S2000 to save some money on my weekend car.  Now that the S2000 appreciated $10k, might be worth spending a few more thousand and getting a car 20 years newer and much more useable.

[CaminoRacer]

So there's an S2000 for sale in Pennslyvania that's exactly the same as mine (color, year, mileage), just slightly better condition.  They're asking $25,500

If it actually goes for that, I'm tempted to list mine for $24k or $25k, and picking up a new 86.  This car seems like a total winner.  Fixes all the issues I had with my first gen BRZ, which I loved.  I particularly loved the way it looked and the color.  I would take a second look at it every time I parked it, and I think this second gen is even better looking.

I only sold it and bought and S2000 to save some money on my weekend car.  Now that the S2000 appreciated $10k, might be worth spending a few more thousand and getting a car 20 years newer and much more useable.

My friend sold his C5 Z06 because he listed it for way more than he bought it for last year, and someone actually went for it. He was actually kinda sad about it.

[MX793]

My friend sold his C5 Z06 because he listed it for way more than he bought it for last year, and someone actually went for it. He was actually kinda sad about it.

Sad that he didn't list it for more?

[MrH]

My friend sold his C5 Z06 because he listed it for way more than he bought it for last year, and someone actually went for it. He was actually kinda sad about it.

The market is so stupid.  S2000s are cool.  Are they significantly cooler than an ND Miata or new 86?  No.  And the used market is now bumping against new car prices

I have zero idea how people are justifying buying S2000s now other than just rampant speculation that they'll continue to appreciate?  It's not a $25k driving experience, and it's not worth the headache of owning a 20 year old car vs something brand new.

[Laconian]

It was the end of the NA DOHC VTEC era, though.

[SJ_GTI]

I don't think it is just the S2000 though (although that seems extreme). All used car prices are crazy right now. Poking around autotrader just now I don't see any Z3's with mileage remotely as low as mine that are in the same price range. Most of what I see are Z3's with the smaller engines (2.3, 2.5, 2.8) with similar mileage (~30k) in the mid to high teens, where as two years ago I paid 12,000 for a 3.0 with 24k miles.

[cawimmer430]

Just noticed the fuel economy.  19/26 for the MT.  Seriously?  That's worse than my last Mustang, which weighed like 600 lbs more and had 50% more engine.

IIRC he also mentions why modern automatics get better fuel economy than manuals in this short video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH-N8t_1Fc

[MX793]

IIRC he also mentions why modern automatics get better fuel economy than manuals in this short video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH-N8t_1Fc

I'm not comparing auto to manual.  I'm comparing a manual, 2.4l, 230hp, 2800lbs GR86 to a manual, 3.7l, 305hp, 3400lbs Mustang, which had the same city rating and a higher highway rating.

[Rich]

The headlights remind me of the Escape.  I like the rear end a little better, but feel mixed on the front.  They got rid of the ninja turtle face, but the new one just doesn't scream excitement to me.

[CALL_911]

I love this Toyota GR. I'm more excited about it than I am the Z.

How about the Acura Integra making a comeback? I'm hoping to god this isn't a CR-Z take 2.

[Laconian]

This video is way better than Top Gear at its peak. The car choreography is so entertaining, esp the Toyota and the VW doing the traction circle.

[MX793]

I love this Toyota GR. I'm more excited about it than I am the Z.

How about the Acura Integra making a comeback? I'm hoping to god this isn't a CR-Z take 2.

I want to be excited about the Teg, but I just know Honda will screw it up.  Like it will be a CUV coupe or hybrid.  Or both.

[Submariner]

I want to be excited about the Teg, but I just know Honda will screw it up.  Like it will be a CUV coupe or hybrid.  Or both.

[CaminoRacer]

I want to be excited about the Teg, but I just know Honda will screw it up.  Like it will be a CUV coupe or hybrid.  Or both.

Hybrid wouldn't be bad if it added performance plus economy, not economy minus performance like the CRZ.

If this GR86 is roomier than the ND but still just as fun, I may be tempted to trade in. The fuel economy thing would be a disappointment, though. I love the 35 mpg of the Miata.

[MX793]

Hybrid wouldn't be bad if it added performance plus economy, not economy minus performance like the CRZ.

If this GR86 is roomier than the ND but still just as fun, I may be tempted to trade in. The fuel economy thing would be a disappointment, though. I love the 35 mpg of the Miata.

I've been watching more and more reviews of the 86 and I'm more and more interested.  On paper, it's exactly the type of car I love.  Very much in the same vein as the Porsche 944 (my dream car as a teenager) or my old 240SX (what I bought because I couldn't afford a 944 as a teenager).

I still can't get over that fuel economy, though.  How does a sleek 4 banger only get 26 mpg highway?  Is it geared so the engine is spinning at 4000 RPM at 65 or something?  My Mustang gets 26 mpg highway.

They fixed the torque hole, which was one of my big turn-offs of the previous car.  Hopefully they fixed the exhaust note.  There's something about the 2.0L FA motors that I find extremely unpleasant to listen to.  I think I may have a touch of misophonia and the sound of most stock FA Subarus is a sound that triggers me.  I definitely could not live with one.

[Submariner]

Aerodynamics and weight can't be huge contributing factors to the poor MPG.  Gearing is probably the culprit. 

And I'm with you on the engine.  They just don't sound good.  An 86 with what I assume was an aftermarket exhaust passed by me not long ago and it was nice, but that was because I couldn't hear the engine over the exhaust note.

[CaminoRacer]

Looks like the automatic gets 30 mpg highway so I bet the manual's 6th gear is much shorter. 

[r0tor]

Still waiting for something at this price point worthwhile to replace my 18 yr old RX8 with 

[MrH]

The GR86 isn't a worthy replacement...?

[CaminoRacer]

The GR86 isn't a worthy replacement...?

The gas mileage isn't bad enough.

[r0tor]

The GR86 isn't a worthy replacement...?

Handling or power doesn't move the needle, and a way less fun engine... and way less practical as well

So not even close

[MX793]

Looks like the automatic gets 30 mpg highway so I bet the manual's 6th gear is much shorter. 

Assuming gearing is the same as the GT86 (sounds like it is, since it's only being reported that gears 2-5 are changed), it turns 3000 RPM @ 70 mph.  Not exactly screaming.  My Mazda3 was geared the same, with an engine of similar displacement, likely worse aero, and got 30 mpg highway.

[CaminoRacer]

I'll need to drive one, but I've basically decided I'll trade the Miata for one of these when they come out. Hopefully it's not a nightmare to find one for a non-marked up price, but I have a feeling it'll be at least a year before they're readily available, given Toyota's recent 40% production cut

[r0tor]

What do you see in this you don't see in a MX5?

[CaminoRacer]

A bit more practicality with very similar driving characteristics and enjoyment. And I don't think I can do a track day in the Miata and still keep it as a daily driver. In order to pass a broomstick test with my helmet on, I'd probably have to install a rollbar that is too tall to fit underneath the soft top

[MrH]

  Yeah, as much as I like the ND miata, I really don't think I should get one.  I can't fit in the RF at all.  The soft top I almost have to slouch a little.  It's a bit too tight for my size.  The S2000 is also really tight for me.  I'm likely upgrading to one of these too if I can get top dollar for the S2000

What makes me really sad?

According to Toyota's chief engineer Yasunori Suezawa, the cars were never meant to be radically different: "Initially, we were trying to realize the driving taste for both GR 86 and BRZ, only by differentiating the specifications of the absorber setting and power steering setting." However, Toyota got carried away, and before it knew it, the GR 86 had gained unique front knuckles, stabilizers, bushings, springs, and even ECU software. Suezawa says that the approach of each company was ultimately slightly different, with Subaru focusing on comfort more and Toyota choosing to refine engine response. As a result, Suezawa says both cars have exceptional handling but also their own "unique taste in response and power."

I think the BRZ looks better, and World Rally Blue is my favorite color of all time.  I'm going to be really sad if the Toyota is noticeably better to drive and I have to settle for some awful color.  Or spend a lot of money swapping in GR86 stuff into a WRB BRZ.