2025 MINI will be automatic only

[Madman]

After the recent news that Volkswagen will be discontinuing the manual in the Golf GTI and R, we get confirmation the next generation of the MINI will only be available with an automatic.

What is this world coming to?

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/05/mini-manual-transmission-dead/

[giant_mtb]

[Eye of the Tiger]

The end is nigh.

[AutobahnSHO]

[CaminoRacer]

The EV version should be better than the current one. Not surprised about the manual

[GoCougs]

Surprising? Nobody buys a new car with a M/T. Plus, M/T and turbo doesn't mix entirely well (of which most all cars are these days).

[SJ_GTI]

The change to EV is making the automatic/manual transmission decision moot anyway.

I'm still pretty happy with my current daily driver (which is 6MT of course) and if I was buying a new ICE tomorrow I'd only be considering cars with a manual transmission. That being said, I would guess that there is a >50% chance my next daily driver will be an EV which won't have multiple forward gears anyway. Each year that % is just getting higher.

[Raza]

Oh man, I didn't hear about the GTI and Golf R going automatic only. And now Mini?

Man, we really are at the end times of automotive enthusiasm. Pretty soon, no new cars will be anything I want to drive. It's already close to that as is.

[ChrisV]

I'm constantly amazed by car enthusiasts whose ONLY definition of being a car enthusiast is moving a clutch pedal and think that without that, there is no automotive enthusiasm. It's pathetic.

Yes, executing a perfect heel and toe downshift while going around an S bend is fun. Yes, it's a dying skill, but it's not the be-all and end-all of cars.

I've had a lot of fun automatic equipped cars, some with modded automatics to change how they shift. And now with EVs and no mechanical need for multiple gear ratios OR a reason to de-couple the transmission from the motor in order to come to a stop or take off from a stop, it's really as relevant as manual chokes and manual spark advance/retard. Might as well cry that operating those properly is a sadly lost skill.

UP until the EVs, all the cars I ever bought new were intentionally specc'd with a manual, usually because it WAS quicker/faster and got better mileage than the automatic version of the same. And my MINI has a 6 speed manual. But EVs can be just as fun to drive, and I'm seriously not going to miss manuals in new cars now that instant throttle response and gobs of acceleration are on tap, along with low CGs for decent handling and the ability to improve that with tires and suspension work on popular models.

[GoCougs]

The ZF8 is better than just about any M/T esp. if you get it outfitted in at least a moderate performance vehicle - M340i, S4, etc. - especially in a turbocharged car. Doubly so for something super legit like Porsche's PDK.

And even back in the muscle car day, the A/T was typically better too overall than M/T - quicker when set up correctly and much easier to live with (esp. with something like GM's variable pitch TH400, i.e., legit launch control circa 1966!).

[CALL_911]

I'm constantly amazed by car enthusiasts whose ONLY definition of being a car enthusiast is moving a clutch pedal and think that without that, there is no automotive enthusiasm. It's pathetic.

Yes, executing a perfect heel and toe downshift while going around an S bend is fun. Yes, it's a dying skill, but it's not the be-all and end-all of cars.

I've had a lot of fun automatic equipped cars, some with modded automatics to change how they shift. And now with EVs and no mechanical need for multiple gear ratios OR a reason to de-couple the transmission from the motor in order to come to a stop or take off from a stop, it's really as relevant as manual chokes and manual spark advance/retard. Might as well cry that operating those properly is a sadly lost skill.

UP until the EVs, all the cars I ever bought new were intentionally specc'd with a manual, usually because it WAS quicker/faster and got better mileage than the automatic version of the same. And my MINI has a 6 speed manual. But EVs can be just as fun to drive, and I'm seriously not going to miss manuals in new cars now that instant throttle response and gobs of acceleration are on tap, along with low CGs for decent handling and the ability to improve that with tires and suspension work on popular models.

I love a good manual and will sorely miss them when they're wiped from the Earth, but you're right

[r0tor]

I'm constantly amazed by car enthusiasts whose ONLY definition of being a car enthusiast is moving a clutch pedal and think that without that, there is no automotive enthusiasm. It's pathetic.

Yes, executing a perfect heel and toe downshift while going around an S bend is fun. Yes, it's a dying skill, but it's not the be-all and end-all of cars.

I've had a lot of fun automatic equipped cars, some with modded automatics to change how they shift. And now with EVs and no mechanical need for multiple gear ratios OR a reason to de-couple the transmission from the motor in order to come to a stop or take off from a stop, it's really as relevant as manual chokes and manual spark advance/retard. Might as well cry that operating those properly is a sadly lost skill.

UP until the EVs, all the cars I ever bought new were intentionally specc'd with a manual, usually because it WAS quicker/faster and got better mileage than the automatic version of the same. And my MINI has a 6 speed manual. But EVs can be just as fun to drive, and I'm seriously not going to miss manuals in new cars now that instant throttle response and gobs of acceleration are on tap, along with low CGs for decent handling and the ability to improve that with tires and suspension work on popular models.

However, then you have something like a video I posted in another thread - a CarWow drag race of all of the Porsche GT cars sold today.  You would think a race of 5 cars running 11's would be entertaining... But all it showed were all the PDK car drivers almost falling asleep while doing 11's in the 1/4 mile.  The guy in the GT4 came in last every race but was at least challenged trying to get everything better each run driving a manual.

Involvement is a real thing especially in an enthusiast brand car.

[ChrisV]

However, then you have something like a video I posted in another thread - a CarWow drag race of all of the Porsche GT cars sold today.  You would think a race of 5 cars running 11's would be entertaining... But all it showed were all the PDK car drivers almost falling asleep while doing 11's in the 1/4 mile.  The guy in the GT4 came in last every race but was at least challenged trying to get everything better each run driving a manual.

Involvement is a real thing especially in an enthusiast brand car.

Drag racing has little involvement to go fast anyhow, as you are basically using the accelerator pedal and holding the wheel straight. For me it's boring even with a manual.

Autocrossing, road racing, twisty backroads, all can and are just as fun in a good automatic or an EV. I mean, these are engaging and fun and they don't have shifters at all:



To define yourself as an enthusiast ONLY because you are shifting occasionally is just dumb. Especailly to say there's nothing to drive if there's no manual transmission.

[Eye of the Tiger]

My clutch leg is bad, and I am now an unthusiast. I drive a big understeery appliance and I hate everything.

[r0tor]

Drag racing has little involvement to go fast anyhow, as you are basically using the accelerator pedal and holding the wheel straight. For me it's boring even with a manual.

Autocrossing, road racing, twisty backroads, all can and are just as fun in a good automatic or an EV. I mean, these are engaging and fun and they don't have shifters at all:



To define yourself as an enthusiast ONLY because you are shifting occasionally is just dumb. Especailly to say there's nothing to drive if there's no manual transmission.

Don't entirely disagree, but shifter karts are 1000% more than EV or centrifugal clutch karts

[Raza]

I'm constantly amazed by car enthusiasts whose ONLY definition of being a car enthusiast is moving a clutch pedal and think that without that, there is no automotive enthusiasm. It's pathetic.

Shove it up your ass with this holier-than-thou "I love every car and I'm better than everyone who doesn't" attitude. Guess the fuck what, mate? I like manuals. It's my preference. I prefer it. It's my personal fucking preference. I like it better than automatic. I don't like automatics. The same way I don't like chocolate ice cream. So if you have a problem with that, you're the pathetic one.

[Madman]

Perhaps I should have included a smiley or winking emoji to indicate I was being somewhat facetious when I asked "What is this world coming to?"

I'm fully cognizant of the fact the manual transmission will go the way of the dodo, sooner rather than later.  Alas, no matter how stridently I shake my fist at the the sky or how vociferously I yell at the clouds, the old man I am rapidly becoming will never be able to halt the inexorable and unrelenting march of progress.  Believe me, I've tried!

When pondering this subject earlier, I wondered if our grandparent's generation lamented the day they no longer had to start their engines by turning a crank at the front of the car?  I somehow doubt it!  And yet, I'm sure at least a few of them derived a small amount of visceral satisfaction in exerting some physical effort in coaxing a machine to life, just as we today do in rowing our own gears to facilitate forward motion.  Do we really "need" to do it?  Of course not.  But sometimes, some of us just "want" to do it.

It's not as if we're the first generation to be resistant to change, either.  I am put in mind of the veteran sailors of the late 19th century who bemoaned the transition from sail to steam, as they witnessed the last of the tall sailing ships, clippers and windjammers, being decommissioned and broken up for salvage.

There will inevitably come a day when we can permanently rest our clutch foot and retrain our shifting hand to blindly stab at the ever-growing touchscreens which are taking over our dashboards.  When that day finally does arrive, we can at least get our revenge against a changing world by boring our children and grandchildren with tedious stories about how we used to do it in "The Old Days."  We owe it to them, just as earlier generations owed it to us.  Think of it as the circle of life!

Will I miss the manual transmission?  Sorta.  I mean, there will still be plenty of them around for the foreseeable future.  Eventually, however, I can envision a time when they will eventually fade away like other once-commonplace bits of ephemera fondly remembered by those of a certain age.  Like rotary dial telephones.  Or wringer washing machines.  Or polio.

Okay, I'm being facetious about that last one, too.

[AutobahnSHO]

It really cracked me up how insistent my 19yr old was in looking for a manual for his first (owned) car.

Ended up choosing a 2008 (beige with 88k miles) Prius on Saturday.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It really cracked me up how insistent my 19yr old was in looking for a manual for his first (owned) car.

Ended up choosing a 2008 (beige with 88k miles) Prius on Saturday.

I was 100% insistent. I didn't look at a single automatic for my first car. There was nobody to teach me manual, and nobody had to. I had Hard Drivin' at the arcade.

At this point in my life, I would 100% drive a Prius if I wasn't afraid of being killed by other drivers.

[veeman]

I like underpowered (for American standards) manual transmission cars because if the roads are dry, I can pedal to the metal through the first couple of shifts on local roads and still be easily able to control the car and be at safe speed. My base Veloster for example. It's a 2 liter, 4 cylinder, 147 hp engine. Slow. But I can easily keep up with traffic even on the most challenging highway merge (let's say from a gas station with a zero distance stop sign merge to a fast moving highway) because I'm pedal to the metal on the 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th gear change. I get a hoot out of doing that. It also gives me pleasure when a valet guy or mechanic gives me a slight nod of respect when they see I drive a manual transmission. Something they didn't expect when they see a 50 year old guy in a dress shirt and tie driving an economy car. The best thing for me, as a family guy however, is that it's Dad's car. Only Dad knows how to drive it. No make up in it. No excess water bottles. Driver's seat and rear view mirror never have to be adjusted. It's always there wherever Dad parked it last.

[AutobahnSHO]

I like underpowered (for American standards) manual transmission cars because if the roads are dry, I can pedal to the metal through the first couple of shifts on local roads and still be easily able to control the car and be at safe speed. My base Veloster for example. It's a 2 liter, 4 cylinder, 147 hp engine. Slow. But I can easily keep up with traffic even on the most challenging highway merge (let's say from a gas station with a zero distance stop sign merge to a fast moving highway) because I'm pedal to the metal on the 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th gear change. I get a hoot out of doing that. It also gives me pleasure when a valet guy or mechanic gives me a slight nod of respect when they see I drive a manual transmission. Something they didn't expect when they see a 50 year old guy in a dress shirt and tie driving an economy car. The best thing for me, as a family guy however, is that it's Dad's car. Only Dad knows how to drive it. No make up in it. No excess water bottles. Driver's seat and rear view mirror never have to be adjusted. It's always there wherever Dad parked it last.

[ChrisV]

Don't entirely disagree, but shifter karts are 1000% more than EV or centrifugal clutch karts

I wouldn't say 1000% more fun. But even that being said, there's a difference between saying "this would be more fun with a manual" and "oh, woe is me, there's nothing left to drive!" Or "these are the end times of automotive enthusiasm."

Now if you want to talk about autonomous cars, there's a conversation to be had there... lol

[ChrisV]

Shove it up your ass with this holier-than-thou "I love every car and I'm better than everyone who doesn't" attitude. Guess the fuck what, mate? I like manuals. It's my preference. I prefer it. It's my personal fucking preference. I like it better than automatic. I don't like automatics. The same way I don't like chocolate ice cream. So if you have a problem with that, you're the pathetic one.

Shove it up your ass with your holier-than-thou "if it's not a manual there's no way an enthusiast can like it" BS. Shove it up your ass with your holier-than-thou "it's the automotive enthusiast end times" as if you speak for every automotive enthusiast AND that instead of being a mere preference, your BS is that the ONLY thing to be an automotive enthusiast about IS a clutch pedal.

I don't give two shits about your preference. You can prefer manuals all you want. *I* prefer a good manual. But your BS about automotive end times and there's nothing left to drive because you can't wiggle your left foot occasionally is simply moronic. It shows you to be a closed minded fucktard. And since that's a valuable goal to you, then a valuable goal to me is calling you out on it.

So fuck off, Raza.

[FoMoJo]

I miss the '60s.  It was the golden era of all things automotive.  It was truly visceral, the noise, the smells, raw gasoline, burnt rubber, burnt clutches.  Dangerous speeds on skinny bias ply tires with bad suspension and brakes, ripping through the gears trying not to crunch them too badly, with an engine that was far too powerful for the tin can that it powered.  Green light to red light, pedestrians beware.  It was like the Wild West of all things automotive.  Things are kind of tame theses days, all the nanny gizmos, cars that practically drive themselves.

But that's just me.

[ChrisV]

I miss the '60s.  It was the golden era of all things automotive.  It was truly visceral, the noise, the smells, raw gasoline, burnt rubber, burnt clutches.  Dangerous speeds on skinny bias ply tires with bad suspension and brakes, ripping through the gears trying not to crunch them too badly, with an engine that was far too powerful for the tin can that it powered.  Green light to red light, pedestrians beware.  It was like the Wild West of all things automotive.  Things are kind of tame theses days, all the nanny gizmos, cars that practically drive themselves.

But that's just me.

Don't forget this:

[FoMoJo]

Don't forget this:

MGA, it was bugging me.

As for not forgetting, it was barely an issue at the time.  Even smoking was good for you back then.

As for people who love cars, it can be for a variety of reasons, some incomprehensible to others.  Who could love a 1976 Dodge Coronet?  We know at least one person who does.

[Raza]

Shove it up your ass with your holier-than-thou "if it's not a manual there's no way an enthusiast can like it" BS. Shove it up your ass with your holier-than-thou "it's the automotive enthusiast end times" as if you speak for every automotive enthusiast AND that instead of being a mere preference, your BS is that the ONLY thing to be an automotive enthusiast about IS a clutch pedal.

I don't give two shits about your preference. You can prefer manuals all you want. *I* prefer a good manual. But your BS about automotive end times and there's nothing left to drive because you can't wiggle your left foot occasionally is simply moronic. It shows you to be a closed minded fucktard. And since that's a valuable goal to you, then a valuable goal to me is calling you out on it.

So fuck off, Raza.

Alright buddy, you say you don't care about my personal preference and then go on to rail against my personal preference and continue with the insults. Get your shit straight. You were so incensed about my personal like of manuals and flippant remark that you called me pathetic, but not like a man, you made a comment about what I said rather than replying to me directly. So continue to get mad about my likes and dislikes and stew in your fucking self righteousness.

I never once said I spoke for all enthusiasts. I didn't realize that you were so dense you couldn't interpret my personal opinion as personal opinion without me explicitly stating that it applies to me and only me. You just jump on your high horse with your chip on your shoulder and act like a total prick for no reason. So go fuck yourself.

I specifically said there would be no cars left that *I* want to drive. Do you need a lesson in the difference between "I" and "all automotive enthusiasts"? They're spelled differently, for one.

[GoCougs]

Jesus.

[GoCougs]

MGA, it was bugging me.

As for not forgetting, it was barely an issue at the time.  Even smoking was good for you back then.

As for people who love cars, it can be for a variety of reasons, some incomprehensible to others.  Who could love a 1976 Dodge Coronet?  We know at least one person who does.

A '76 Coronet in police interceptor (440 V8 w/255 net/315 gross HP) form ain't a bad piece of kit, plus they had front disc brakes and power steering/brakes and not uncommon to have AC and power windows/locks whereas many/most muscle cars went without:

[CaminoRacer]

I have all the transmissions so I must be the top enthusiast.

edit: okay I don't have any CVTs.