2025 Ram Ramcharger

[MrH]

https://www.theautopian.com/the-2025-ram-ramcharger-a-tesla-sized-battery-and-a-big-gas-engine-create-the-perfect-truck/comment-page-1/#comments

Wow.  Stellantis beating everyone to the punch here.  92 kWh battery, 145 miles of EV range, pentastar V6 as a serial hybrid to give it 690 miles of range.

You now have an EV truck for 99% of your commute, but can tow and go on road trips without missing a beat.

This is the way.

[CaminoRacer]

Oh wow.

That's a massive battery for the range, I wonder how much reserve they leave before the V6 kicks on? I'm sure the mi/kw aren't good compared to most car/hatchback EVs, but 145 miles on 92 kWh still seems a bit low. The Lightning seems to get above 2 mi/kw

[MrH]

Oh wow.

That's a massive battery for the range, I wonder how much reserve they leave before the V6 kicks on? I'm sure the mi/kw aren't good compared to most car/hatchback EVs, but 145 miles on 92 kWh still seems a bit low. The Lightning seems to get above 2 mi/kw

Lightning can get as low as 1.5 in cold, highway driving.  Yeah, efficiency seems low, but at the same time, it's probably not designed for maximum efficiency as an EV.  Efficiency is only really critical in that it dictates range.  When you remove the range issue by having a gas engine too, I don't really care if it's 1.4 mi/kWh or 1.7 mi/kWh.  Operating cost difference is going to be pretty negligible.

Seems like a no brainer over something like the Silverado EV.  I think that's in the 1.4 mi/kWh too?  But it has like a 200+ kWh battery.  And it's $100k+.  It'll be cheaper, has the same EV driving experience for 99% of your driving, and for the 1% for road trips or towing, it greatly outperforms the Silverado.

I'm shocked no one else has done this yet.  Ford seems like the obvious one, since it has the powerboost and the Lightning already.

[AutobahnSHO]

I'm shocked no one else has done this yet.  Ford seems like the obvious one, since it has the powerboost and the Lightning already.

Me too, honestly. Ford should have gotten over their surprise at the Maverick's demand and upgraded the same idea to all the other TRUCKS....

[Laconian]

Why 145 miles? That seems like too much for a PHEV. It's so much battery and so much engine. Flebhbhbb.

PHEVs are about nailing the 99% use case which is probably around 80mi.

[CaminoRacer]

Lightning can get as low as 1.5 in cold, highway driving.  Yeah, efficiency seems low, but at the same time, it's probably not designed for maximum efficiency as an EV.  Efficiency is only really critical in that it dictates range.  When you remove the range issue by having a gas engine too, I don't really care if it's 1.4 mi/kWh or 1.7 mi/kWh.  Operating cost difference is going to be pretty negligible.

Seems like a no brainer over something like the Silverado EV.  I think that's in the 1.4 mi/kWh too?  But it has like a 200+ kWh battery.  And it's $100k+.  It'll be cheaper, has the same EV driving experience for 99% of your driving, and for the 1% for road trips or towing, it greatly outperforms the Silverado.

I'm shocked no one else has done this yet.  Ford seems like the obvious one, since it has the powerboost and the Lightning already.

I didn't see pricing mentioned in the article, I think this is gonna be at least $70k if not pushing $100k.

[AutobahnSHO]

Why 145 miles? That seems like too much for a PHEV. It's so much battery and so much engine. Flebhbhbb.

PHEVs are about nailing the 99% use case which is probably around 80mi.

If you granny push the right pedal it could be up there. It's a tesla sized battery, not a PHEV little battery...

[MrH]

Why 145 miles? That seems like too much for a PHEV. It's so much battery and so much engine. Flebhbhbb.

PHEVs are about nailing the 99% use case which is probably around 80mi.

145 miles is much more useful than 80 for me.

More importantly though, it likely needs a huge buffer.  It's not just a range question.  The electric motors have 663 horsepower.  The generator attached to the V6 can only generate 174 hp.  Granted, that's steady state.  I highly doubt the truck would be using 174+ hp continuously.  There was probably a lot of thought and design about how much capacity is needed if you were towing and needed serious power to get all the way up a mountain, etc.  Too small of battery capacity, and you're going to deplete the reserve and not have enough coming from the generator.

It's like sizing a battery for an off-the-grid solar installation or something.  You measure the demand, the supply, and worst case between those two to size your batteries.  Too small of a battery, and your AC might be shutting off in the middle of the night all summer.

[CaminoRacer]

145 miles is much more useful than 80 for me.

More importantly though, it likely needs a huge buffer.  It's not just a range question.  The electric motors have 663 horsepower.  The generator attached to the V6 can only generate 174 hp.  Granted, that's steady state.  I highly doubt the truck would be using 174+ hp continuously.  There was probably a lot of thought and design about how much capacity is needed if you were towing and needed serious power to get all the way up a mountain, etc.  Too small of battery capacity, and you're going to deplete the reserve and not have enough coming from the generator.

It's like sizing a battery for an off-the-grid solar installation or something.  You measure the demand, the supply, and worst case between those two to size your batteries.  Too small of a battery, and your AC might be shutting off in the middle of the night all summer.

The Corvette E-Ray seems to play similar games with keeping the battery charged up so it never loses AWD.

[veeman]

I think this pickup truck looks like a winner on paper but won't sell that well.

Gasoline is too cheap in America, especially outside California, for there to be enough financial incentive to pay my guess the 10 to 15 grand premium over the cost of the ICE equivalent Ram truck. Plus red states like Texas are imposing EV specific taxes to make them even less appealing.

I think most potential buyers are going to be worrying about more things (expensive things) going wrong with their new truck and would end up getting the ICE only all black Ram truck they want for a cheaper high apr 7 year loan term. 

[r0tor]

At $3.50/gal has and 17 cent/kw electric - this has the operating cost of a 31mpg vehicle in EV mode and my guess is something horrendous in gas-gen mode

-yawn-

[r0tor]

Actually... Lol 690 mile claimed range with full EV charge and 27 gallons of gas comes out to 25.5 mpg.

In gas gen mode it's getting 20 mpg... Not seeing some life changing benefit here

[CaminoRacer]

Actually... Lol 690 mile claimed range with full EV charge and 27 gallons of gas comes out to 25.5 mpg.

In gas gen mode it's getting 20 mpg... Not seeing some life changing benefit here

Like all PHEVs, mileage will never be that much better if you're consistently using the gas engine. It's meant to be used in full EV mode as much as possible to get the full benefits.

[r0tor]

Like all PHEVs, mileage will never be that much better if you're consistently using the gas engine. It's meant to be used in full EV mode as much as possible to get the full benefits.

Full benefits of 31 equivalent mpg in EV mode doesn't exactly light the world on fire.

[AutobahnSHO]

It's double what I hear people in regular pickups getting!!

[giant_mtb]

Full benefits of 31 equivalent mpg in EV mode doesn't exactly light the world on fire.

31mpg in a full size truck is insane. Anything over 20 with an ICE is a surprise.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'd be surprised if TUNDRA ever hits 18 MpG. It'd have to be a steady 50 MPH cruise with a slight downhill grade with the tires over inflated while drafting a semi truck.

[veeman]

31mpg in a full size truck is insane. Anything over 20 with an ICE is a surprise.

Unless Diesel :)

[giant_mtb]

Unless Diesel :)

Uh, no.

[GoCougs]

What is even this thing.

It has most of the cost of a premium EV (i.e., a fairly large battery pack and dual motors, at least in top trim) PLUS now an onboard gas ICE and all that it needs, IRS and 8-lug wheels in the promo pics (might be fake, but if not, that points to HD (=$$$) suspension and brakes). How this will cost less than $90k will be amazing (at least in dual motor, big battery pack trim (i.e., the only useful config)):

1.) Pickup drivers couldn't care less about MPG.

2.) Chevy did this more than 10 years ago and nobody really bought it (Chevy Volt).

3.) They all tried diesel half tons and hybrids (Tahoe) for similar reasons and nobody bought those either.

4.) Just generally, 20+ years on only Toyota hybrids sell in any sort of profitable/successful way.

5.) Trucks are terrible WRT to reliability and Rams are by far the worst.

6.) The Pentastar V6 is ancient.

7.) Like the Hummer EV showed, when EVs get this big/heavy/inefficient, the eMPG is abysmal.

Just buy a used Tacoma if you're interested in saving $$$ and the environment.

[Laconian]

I agree. The eMPG is so bad, and the battery pack is so large, that it will never break even as a less polluting vehicle vs. ICE trucks.

[AutobahnSHO]

Y'all never talk with any  brodozer bros?...

[r0tor]

31mpg in a full size truck is insane. Anything over 20 with an ICE is a surprise.

Regular Rams are in the mid 20's?

[AutobahnSHO]

Regular Rams are in the mid 20's?

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500/2022#:~:text=Based%20on%20data%20from%20301,0.11%20MPG%20margin%20of%20error.&text=Below%20you%20can%20see%20a,204%20outliers%20(1.76%25)%20removed.

[MrH]

31mpg in a full size truck is insane. Anything over 20 with an ICE is a surprise.

That "31 mpg" equivalent stat only works with gas fixed at $3.50/gal indefinitely.  As gas goes up, it becomes more and more advantageous.

Not only that, but this is 600+ hp, 14k towing ability.  An ICE equivalent would be well under 20 mpg.

[giant_mtb]

Regular Rams are in the mid 20's?

I've been in dozens of different Rams and seen the trip computers.  In the real world, no they are not.

[r0tor]

That "31 mpg" equivalent stat only works with gas fixed at $3.50/gal indefinitely.  As gas goes up, it becomes more and more advantageous.

Not only that, but this is 600+ hp, 14k towing ability.  An ICE equivalent would be well under 20 mpg.

Once the batteries deplete there is no way the pentastar produces enough electricity to to 14k pound except if it's downhill with a tail wind.

Electric costs are rising substantially faster than gas prices.

[CaminoRacer]

Electric costs are rising substantially faster than gas prices.

Where?

It's dirt cheap here. 8-12 cents. Charging my EV is practically free.

[GoCougs]

That "31 mpg" equivalent stat only works with gas fixed at $3.50/gal indefinitely.  As gas goes up, it becomes more and more advantageous.

Not only that, but this is 600+ hp, 14k towing ability.  An ICE equivalent would be well under 20 mpg.

600 hp for only very short bursts before thermal management kicks in and then you'll deplete the battery in a matter of minutes if you keep it. Then comes the real problem in lugging 3/4-ton pickup weight (7000+ lbs) with a minivan V6 (currently rated at less than 300 hp) whilst not charging the battery.

So, all told, yes, range anxiety is alleviated somewhat but there will still be a moderate dose of EV range mindfulness, such as stopping to let the ICE charge the battery (or plugging in) or greatly altering your driving (such as when towing). IOW, you're not getting anything remotely close to 600hp for 690 miles.

[AutobahnSHO]

No one uses 600hp for anything but short bursts, it's not a heavy-duty truck even though the tow capacity is stupid high..

FWIW the Maverick Hybrid is only rated for 2000lbs towing and there are charts for calculating frontal area of trailers to make sure not to overload small tow-capacity vehicles.
-truck also has a "power" meter instead of usual tachometer- it shows 0-100% and under zero is a "charge" range (if you go past the end of the charge range the hydraulic brakes are used).
-A guy has stuff plugged in always monitoring battery charge and temp, along with engine temp and output.
-He towed a 3000lb square utility trailer from CONUS up to Alaska and back (including some pretty substantial grades up and down).
-he said as long as you keep Maverick at 50% or less, it stays just fine temp-wise....