ZAP plans to sell 77K Smart ForTwos in the US

[ifcar]

Can ZAP Move $1 Billion in smarts?


U.S. car customizer ZAP shocked DaimlerChrysler by placing an order for $1 billion worth of smart fortwo minicars from DaimlerChrysler.

While Mercedes-Benz has tabled its plans to launch smart in the U.S. because of a bleak profit forecast, the cost of federalizing the cars and iffy demand,  California-based ZAP has figured a way to economically handle the safety and environmental adjustments so well that Mercedes sent engineers to the company earlier this year to see how they managed it. "ZAP placed the purchase order directly to the DaimlerChrysler Group in an effort to expedite delivery of U.S. compliant smart cars to consumers. ZAP is still waiting for confirmation that smart GmbH will fulfill the purchase order," the Santa Rosa, Calif., company said in a statement. The order was for 76,500 cars at a total price of $1.03 billion. Zap said it has received more than $1 billion in orders from U.S. dealers for Americanized versions of the smart. Whether DaimlerChrysler fills the order remains to be seen.

The company is torn between booking the income and conceding the launch of the brand in the U.S. to a company it doesn't control.

Conventional wisdom says that U.S. drivers would not a car as small as the smart fortwo, especially because of the explosion in big SUVs on American roads. But there is demand from environmentalists, individualists, companies who want to use the easily parkable cars in big cities like New York, San Francisco, Chicago and Boston, as well as companies that want to turn the funny-looking minicars into rolling advertising placards.

Mercedes executives have speculated that there may be a market of 10,000 fortwos a year in the U.S. Dealers, it seems, disagree.  

[giant_mtb]

If I had the money I'd buy one...just for fun, though.  Cool that they're bringing them to the US.

[TurboDan]

I bet they could sell them.  They would have REALLY target key regions though.  I highly doubt many people in the south or "flyover country" would have much use for such a vehicle.  But the big cities of the east coast could prove profitable.

[ifcar]

I bet they could sell them.  They would have REALLY target key regions though.  I highly doubt many people in the south or "flyover country" would have much use for such a vehicle.  But the big cities of the east coast could prove profitable.

I'd say a fair number of California ex-hippies would be willing to take them on as well.  <_<  

[BMWDave]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.  The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

[ifcar]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.  The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.  

[BMWDave]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.  The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.

You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?

[ifcar]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.  The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.

You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?

I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).

High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.

[BMWDave]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.? The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.

You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?

I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).

High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.

I didnt realize it was like that...I thought a nice, small, car with a small wheelbase should have excellent handling.  But I didnt realize it was so tall and narrow.

[ifcar]

There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.  The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.

The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.

You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?

I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).

High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.

I didnt realize it was like that...I thought a nice, small, car with a small wheelbase should have excellent handling.  But I didnt realize it was so tall and narrow.

When the wheelbase is that small, it does more harm than good, in handling anyway.

[Lorinser]

I've seen four or five of these in Ottawa, and I don't really see what is so great about them, other than the size and the fuel economy.  

[93JC]

I've seen lots of them around Calgary. At least 30, which is a lot for a brand new car. There's one that occasionally parks down the street from my house.

Conceptually they're a great idea, as is the case with most of the "city-cars" ever made. In practice they are far too expensive for what they are. Had they been priced at or below $10,000 they'd sell a whole hell of a lot more of them. As it is they're subcompacts priced comparably to compacts, and on the higher end begin to infringe on base-model midsizers.

I can understand the reasoning behind the pricing: they're imported from Europe. I'm sure that adds a substantial amount to their price. But in the end they're still $20,000 cars that feel like they should be $10,000 or less. They're expensive to buy, but they're made from the cheapest materials out there. Fit is okay, but finish is atrocious.

To top it all off they're not fun to drive like you'd expect. They understeer like a mo' fo'. This is probably a design choice in order to prevent snap-oversteer, but it's still annoying. The semi-automatic transmission shifts very slowly and with pronounced jerking, sucking more fun out of it.


I wish Zap good luck. They're going to need it.

 

[Raghavan]

I think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD.  

[BMWDave]

I think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD.

Is a CV supposed to be incredible tall?  And its not a fun car, (as I learned from Ifcar) since its way to high.

[Colonel Cadillac]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

[Raghavan]

I think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD.

Is a CV supposed to be incredible tall?  And its not a fun car, (as I learned from Ifcar) since its way to high.

it's about average for the large car class, and a smart is a micro car, so it's very tall!

[ifcar]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.

[Raghavan]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

i'm pretty sure it doesn't have a diesel.

[Raghavan]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.

well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....

[93JC]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.

Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.

[ifcar]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.

well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....

It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.  

[Raghavan]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.

well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....

It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.

yes, but wouldn't the car be incredibly noisy going at top speed? the engine and vibrations, etc. :blink:  

[Raghavan]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.

Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.

nice. you know the performance and curbweight specs?

[ifcar]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.

well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....

It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.

yes, but wouldn't the car be incredibly noisy going at top speed? the engine and vibrations, etc. :blink:

You can't tell that sort of thing from specs, only from driving it, or at least reading a reveiw.  

[Raghavan]

I have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?

[BMWDave]

I have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?

Most probably.  Which is why it would be best to use it for what its meant for...a cute little city roundabout.

[ifcar]

I have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?

Not too bad with the right suspension tuning, and I believe it has standard stability control.  

[Colonel Cadillac]

What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.

Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.

Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.

That sounds very adequet. I bet ZAP will be able to sell most of the ForTwo's. They're "cute" which will REALLY help, and the added bonus of really good fuel economy will help greatly.  

[Raghavan]

another question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink:    :o  

[BMWDave]

another question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink:    :o

Probably not good.