2008 Ford Focus

[nickdrinkwater]

Did they even sell the sedan in Europe? Sedans are an American thing. People like to keep their cargo seperate from their passengers I guess.

They did.  But hardly anyone bought them in the UK.  They're apparently quite popular in Ireland where people prefer saloons to hatchbacks.

[ifcar]

they are to the average person who really can't tell the difference in ride, and are blissfully unaware of what are minor differences in NVH, especially if they are getting out of an older car that is vastly worse in those areas. And even teh best older economy cars are worse then the worst NEW one. So buyers will say, "hmm. This new car is so much better than my old car, like all new cars are, but it's got more cool features and a great warranty and a decent price. I think I'll buy it."

Pure and simple. They aren't auto reviewers, they aren't princesses that feel a pea under 10 mattresses, they are simply buyers that find any new car more than adequate to get them around in, so use different criteria than you or I do.

People who don't bother to research alternatives can make a car a sales success, but don't make it a better car.

[ifcar]

I'd probably drive a Caliber if I needed something very practical.  The Focus seems much better to drive.

Much better to drive, and the ZX5 is just as practical.

[Raghavan]

Then explain the sales of low end cars like Cobalts, Focus, Kias, etc. Most people don't do THAT much research, and most couldn't tell you very much about the car they DID buy. Serious. it was 4189 a month and they got some cool features and a warranty.


By YOUR logic, no one woudl buy a Cobalt or Focus, or Kia, or any other low end car, because everyone does all this research and ONLY buys the VERY BEST CAR on the market. Yet they still do in large numbers.

I work in a government operation of 65,000 employees, and the vast majority of them know absulutely squat about cars. I listen to them talk about them occasionally and I KNOW that only a couple have ever done research. Most of the people that KNOW cars here buy USED ones, classics, and sports cars. The average economy car buyer can barely name the parts of their own car. It's a pretty big sampling of people to draw from, and I constantly am amazed by the lack of knowledge of what usually amounts to the second largest purchase anyone makes other than housing.

The Focus is a decent car, and the Kia is cheap. Cheaper than the rest of the competition and has a great warranty. The Caliber doesn't really stand out at anything.

[nickdrinkwater]

The Focus is a decent car, and the Kia is cheap. Cheaper than the rest of the competition and has a great warranty. The Caliber doesn't really stand out at anything.

I'd rather have a car that doesn't stand out than a car that stands out because it's ugly (ie Focus).

[Raghavan]

I'd rather have a car that doesn't stand out than a car that stands out because it's ugly (ie Focus).

The Focuses right now aren't ugly.
The new one is though.

[USA_Idol]

Dammit.  I am liking the "new" Focus more every day.

I'm wondering how much of a discount I can get on the SEL Coupe? 

[ChrisV]

People who don't bother to research alternatives can make a car a sales success, but don't make it a better car.

Point out where I said it was the better car than it's foreign competition.. You're making shit up again.

I'm saying it's a perfectly adequate car for most of the buying public, who are getting out of much worse older cars.

[ChrisV]

The Focus is a decent car, and the Kia is cheap. Cheaper than the rest of the competition and has a great warranty. The Caliber doesn't really stand out at anything.

For most people, none of the small economy cars are standouts. They are just transportation and whichever is closest, offers a warranty and they happen to like beter is enough. Hell, most people think red makes a car more sporty, and slight variations in ride/handling are unnoticeable as they never drive them other than smooth streets and never close to their handling limits. What you as a child or I as a sports car driver look for in a car are not important to most people.

let me put it to you this way... I put my PT Cruiser on the autocvross track successfully. It handled vastly more than adequate, yet do you think any other PT Cruiser owners ever came CLOSE to using their cars as hard as I did? Same for Cobalt/Focus/Kia/etc owners (though more Focus owners do track their cars than the others, I'd bet). the important things for most buyers are not absolute ability of the cars, but little things like cool features, warranty, do they fit in the car, etc. Most of these buyers dont' expect the cars to have BMW levels of fit and finish, and most are getting out of older cars that are much worse, so ANY new car looks good in comparison.

There are always "better" cars out there to buy. At the price point, there are probably "better" cars than the BMW I bought, but I bought it and love it. It was what *I* wanted. If YOU had $7500, you probably would not have bought it, going for what YOU want instead, Does that make your choice actually better, or simply what YOU would want?

[FoMoJo]

As to the mention of old cars (usually) seeming worse than new cars...

A direct comparison I had lately was when I received an '06 Pontiac Pursuit (Chevy Cobalt's Canadian cousin...but supposed to be sportier) as a loaner when my '01 Escape needed a bit of collision repair.  My first reaction when I drove it was...the tires must be flat.  It handled like a wet sponge with zero feed-back on neither the wheel nor seat-of-pants...compared to my wife's '02 Focus which, even after over 100k miles (165k kilometres) still has much superior driving dynamics and gives excellent feed-back on whatever terrain it is passing over.  I'm not saying it's better than the sportier versions of Civic and, certainly, not the Mazda3 in any form, but even with a platform designed over 10 years ago, it is a better handling compact than most of its new competitors.

Perhaps driving dynamics aren't that important, or even recognizable, to some, but it's certainly a feature that shines in any Focus.

[SVT666]

Most people buy cars or SUVs based on looks and payment alone.  I haven't driven a "bad" car in many years.  I firmly believe that you can't buy a bad car nowadays.  You can buy a good car and you can buy better cars.  But I can't think of any "bad" cars.  For that reason alone most people buy based on looks.  I also know people who buy based on "import" or "domestic".  Me, I simply buy what suits me best and what I like best...as long as I can afford it.

[ifcar]

Point out where I said it was the better car than it's foreign competition.. You're making shit up again.

I'm saying it's a perfectly adequate car for most of the buying public, who are getting out of much worse older cars.

I'm just clarifying. Point out where I attributed the opposite to you.

Every new mainstream car is at least adequate for people used to a comparable older one of similar or lesser size/capability/etc (IE not counting someone moving from a 93 Suburban to an 07 Accent).

[etypeJohn]

By the way, only the SEL has the aluminum color dash trim.  The SE trim is a more subdued color, the same as the rest of the dash.

[ifcar]

Any pics out there of that design?

[etypeJohn]

Any pics out there of that design?

None that I could find.  I googled "2008 Focus" and found several good writeups.  The statement was in one of them

See:

http://www.globalautoindex.com/news.plt?no=1687

From:  http://www.autoworld.com/apps/news/FullStory.asp?id=5775&frame=

On SEL models, the dashboard and center console sport brilliant matte silver-metallic finishing. On SE models, the dashboard center finish panels are a contrasting dark stone non-metallic color.

[Mr.ZX3]

That fake metal-looking-plastic garbage that everyone has been slathering all over new car interiors recently needs to go.? Now.? To me it totally ruins what otherwise might be a decent interior in the "new" Focus.

The exterior styling is a little on the weird side for me too, but in hindsight the original Focus also looked "weird" when it first came out...then everyone started copying its "tallness" and now it looks fairly normal. (I have an '01 ZX3 that I bought in '01 and I still like it enough to drive it)

The fact that they aren't making a hatchback or wagon version (last I heard) is really stupid though.? By doing that they've eliminated me (and probably a number of others) as a potential customer next time around.? The space you gain by having a hatchback/wagon is completely wasted in a sedan/coupe.? It's nice to have small car gas milage with bigger car space when needed.? A small coupe or small sedan can't give you that cargo room unless you start strapping things to the roof.

'01 Ford Focus ZX3 - Daily driver 117K and counting...rapidly
'02 Pontiac Sunfire - My wife's car - so many dents that it flies 30yds farther off the tee than a standard Sunfire.

[280Z Turbo]

I saw it at the auto show and I got really pissed. They ruined my car!

They eliminated the extra visibility you get with the taller roof with an utterly pointless tall beltline, it sounds like they probably softened the damping and spring rates, I'm sure it got much heavier, and there are no more hatches or wagons.

The more that a car is Americanized, the worse it is for enthusiasts like us.

[ifcar]

I saw it at the auto show and I got really pissed. They ruined my car!

They eliminated the extra visibility you get with the taller roof with an utterly pointless tall beltline, it sounds like they probably softened the damping and spring rates, I'm sure it got much heavier, and there are no more hatches or wagons.

The more that a car is Americanized, the worse it is for enthusiasts like us.

It got lighter by 60 lbs, they claim to have sharpened the steering, and there's a dedicated sport suspension.

[280Z Turbo]

Surprising. How much does it weigh now?

I know the sedan was always quite a bit heavier than the ZX3, so I never even considered one (plus the sedan was ugly).

AFAIK, no magazines have driven it, so I'm curious to see how badly the car was Americanized.

[ifcar]

The spec I found for the 07 sedan's weight was 2647 lbs, so I guess the new one weighs 2587 lbs. The 08 Focus won't be on sale until fall, so I wouldn't expect to see reviews any time soon.

[MX793]

AFAIK, no magazines have driven it, so I'm curious to see how badly the car was Americanized.

I've seen a few tests on the sedan.  C&D tested an SE sedan in a comparo a few years back (before the first facelift).  Motortrend has done a few tests on the sedan, the most recent being a test of the ZX4 ST.  I seem to recall them pitting the ZX4 against the Mazda3s and a few other similar vehicles at some point in the past year as well.

[ifcar]

I read that as there have been no tests of the 08 version, not that there haven't been any of the sedan.

[280Z Turbo]

Autoweek placed the '08 Focus in their "Biggest Loser" column saying that "no other car has caused as much grumbling around the office". Ford actually paid more to facelift the old one than it would have to sell the C1 platform Focus.

If Ford really cared about the American market, they would have used the newer platform. Don't tell me to get a Mazda 3, because I don't want a Mazda 3. I like the Euro Focus better.

When Ford finally brings over the new Euro Focus in 2010, it will undoubtly be watered-down and Americanized. I wish the "Big Three" would admit that they can't built good small cars and leave it to Europe to design them.

[ifcar]

So you think that the Euro Focus is better for the mainstream market that the Focus must sell to, or the microscopic enthusiast's market?

And it's still not as though there's anything wrong with the current (also Euro-designed) Focus's driving dynamics.

[nickdrinkwater]

So you think that the Euro Focus is better for the mainstream market that the Focus must sell to, or the microscopic enthusiast's market?

Yes, as it doesn't look appalling.  It's better to drive too.