Lexus LS460 voted world car of the year

[SVT_Power]

my it's hit 4:15 AM here and i'm still up. I hope i do not see any Lexus's in my dream

[cawimmer430]

my it's hit 4:15 AM here and i'm still up. I hope i do not see any Lexus's in my dream

You need to take sleeping pills.

[Submariner]

You need to take sleeping pills.

Or just drive a Lexus.

[The Pirate]

Better traction yes, better overall no. There was a major debate on this between Mark (6er) and Tave.

Which thread was it in?  Speaking from my experiences, I'd much rather have a heavier car in snow.  My Ford Ranger had a huge improvement with 350-400 lbs. in the bed, and my Pontiac Bonneville was a freaking beast in the snow.

[Raza]

Don't bring it back up.  They were both wrong and they went on for pages.

[JYODER240]

I was misinformed then. But why the hell can you disable TC on the LS and can't on the IS?

You can on the 07 models. I guess enough people complained.

[cawimmer430]

Or just drive a Lexus.

Yawwwwwwwwwn...

[HurricaneSteve]

Yawwwwwwwwwn...

I'm sorry but outside of the AMG models, what car(s) from M-B is so exciting to drive? Aesthetically, I personally find just about every car in their lineup awkward, boring, or just flat out ugly. The C-Class is one of the weirdest looking cars I've ever seen, the E-Class is okay, and the new S-Class looks like arse. Their SUV's don't look any different from what else is on the road, and the only Benzes that stand out are probably their convertibles. I know some people on Lexus forums pissed you off but I don't see how you're being any different from they are, Wimmer.

[850CSi]

I'm sorry but outside of the AMG models, what car(s) from M-B is so exciting to drive? Aesthetically, I personally find just about every car in their lineup awkward, boring, or just flat out ugly. The C-Class is one of the weirdest looking cars I've ever seen, the E-Class is okay, and the new S-Class looks like arse.

If you've ever driven an S-Klasse or any of the cars you just named, you know they're extremely capable dynamically.

[HurricaneSteve]

If you've ever driven an S-Klasse or any of the cars you just named, you know they're extremely capable dynamically.

A Honda Accord is extremely capable dynamically too but that doesn't mean it's an exciting drive.

[JYODER240]

A Honda Accord is extremely capable dynamically too but that doesn't mean it's an exciting drive.

Thats actually a really good point.

[Tave]

Which thread was it in?

Don't bother.

[Tave]

I'm sorry but outside of the AMG models, what car(s) from M-B is so exciting to drive? Aesthetically, I personally find just about every car in their lineup awkward, boring, or just flat out ugly. The C-Class is one of the weirdest looking cars I've ever seen, the E-Class is okay, and the new S-Class looks like arse. Their SUV's don't look any different from what else is on the road, and the only Benzes that stand out are probably their convertibles. I know some people on Lexus forums pissed you off but I don't see how you're being any different from they are, Wimmer.

[cawimmer430]

I'm sorry but outside of the AMG models, what car(s) from M-B is so exciting to drive? Aesthetically, I personally find just about every car in their lineup awkward, boring, or just flat out ugly. The C-Class is one of the weirdest looking cars I've ever seen, the E-Class is okay, and the new S-Class looks like arse. Their SUV's don't look any different from what else is on the road, and the only Benzes that stand out are probably their convertibles. I know some people on Lexus forums pissed you off but I don't see how you're being any different from they are, Wimmer.

I'm just playing. 

Lexus are fine cars, but they have no appeal to me and I'd never opt for one. There's more to luxury cars than starting out as rebadged Toyota and that's what bothers me the most. People think Lexus is on par with Mercedes and above BMW in terms of prestige and that's bull.

You might not find most Mercedes'  fun to drive, but there are some rather fun ones. Every try a torquey C220 CDI? Or a GL320 CDI? The R230 SL500 was probably the most fun car I've ever driven, even in SL350 form (3.7 V6). Most Lexus cars are too biased towards comfort. I like comfort, but I also like sport and the newer Mercedes' are a great fusion between these two ideals. They satisfy my needs and that's where I derive fun. The only Lexus with even remotely good dynamic qualities seems to be the IS. The rest are all boaty and floaty. 

[HurricaneSteve]

I'm just playing. 

Lexus are fine cars, but they have no appeal to me and I'd never opt for one. There's more to luxury cars than starting out as rebadged Toyota and that's what bothers me the most. People think Lexus is on par with Mercedes and above BMW in terms of prestige and that's bull.

You might not find most Mercedes'  fun to drive, but there are some rather fun ones. Every try a torquey C220 CDI? Or a GL320 CDI? The R230 SL500 was probably the most fun car I've ever driven, even in SL350 form (3.7 V6). Most Lexus cars are too biased towards comfort. I like comfort, but I also like sport and the newer Mercedes' are a great fusion between these two ideals. They satisfy my needs and that's where I derive fun. The only Lexus with even remotely good dynamic qualities seems to be the IS. The rest are all boaty and floaty. 

You may not think Lexus is on par with Mercedes and BMW in terms of prestige but others obviously do. If they didn't, why would they buy them? At least in the United States, Lexus models are typically cheaper than a comparable German marque, but someone with that kind of money to throw around undoubtedly does have the buying power to purchase something more expensive if they want to. If price was a concern they would most likely get something much cheaper, like a Focus or an Impala something. And that's great you find Benzes fun to drive but I don't. Driving excitement to me is Porsche, BMW, Mazda, or Subaru, not some overweight barge that I'm going to worry will leave me stranded on the side of the road every time I start up the car. If power is how you define "fun to drive", then you certainly can't fault Lexus as they have some great powertrains in their lineup.

With the exception of the ES and GX, which Lexus cars are rebadged Toyotas? LS? IS? GS? SC?

Actually the GS, while not exactly a 5-Series, is a pretty good driving car. The previous SC was good and the LF-A and IS-F will most likely be excellent as well. Lexus does need to add more sporty variants to their lineup, but a majority their vehicles are built around the passenger by and for those who want a quiet, luxurious ride every time they step in. In my view, nobody does that better in that segment. Those who complain about isolation in Lexus vehicles make about as much sense as those who complain that full size trucks are too heavy to go canyon carving in the mountains at 100 MPH.

[Raza]

A lot of people buy Lexus because they're cheaper, because they're less prestigious, and also, judging by a lot of people I know, because they refuse to buy a German car.

[TheIntrepid]

Every review here in Europe has complained about weak brakes and a pathetic load capacity (less than 400 kg). The load capacity is extremely pathetic. The standard LS460 can only carry four average sized adult but no luggage.

This here is the new C220CDI. Yes it's the automatic C220CDI. The all new C220CDI. :P

[HurricaneSteve]

A lot of people buy Lexus because they're cheaper, because they're less prestigious, and also, judging by a lot of people I know, because they refuse to buy a German car.

That doesn't make sense, if you're blowing 70 or 80 grand for a car, is 5-10 grand really going to make that big of a difference? That comes out to maybe 50 bucks more a month on the monthly payment.

[Raza]

That doesn't make sense, if you're blowing 70 or 80 grand for a car, is 5-10 grand really going to make that big of a difference? That comes out to maybe 50 bucks more a month on the monthly payment.

It makes a difference.  People aren't irresponsible with that kind of money.  Also in this market segment, Lexus is much softer, since BMW and Mercedes got into this stupid large sedan arms race, so people think "this car is just as comfortable and cheaper, why pay for the extra power?"

[HurricaneSteve]

It makes a difference.  People aren't irresponsible with that kind of money.  Also in this market segment, Lexus is much softer, since BMW and Mercedes got into this stupid large sedan arms race, so people think "this car is just as comfortable and cheaper, why pay for the extra power?"

Spending the kind of money you can buy a small house with on a car isn't being irresponsible?

[Raza]

Spending the kind of money you can buy a small house with on a car isn't being irresponsible?

Where can you buy a house for 70 grand?

And no, it's not irresponsible.  Buying a car that costs as much as a house when you don't have a house, now that's irresponsible.

[HurricaneSteve]

Where can you buy a house for 70 grand?

And no, it's not irresponsible.  Buying a car that costs as much as a house when you don't have a house, now that's irresponsible.

You can in Omaha, albeit not a very good one, but it will hold it's value far better than a 7-Series or an LS if purchased today.

Luxury cars are not responsible purchases. Do you really think an S-Class is worth 40 grand more than an optioned out Impala or Crown Victoria?

[Raza]

You can in Omaha, albeit not a very good one, but it will hold it's value far better than a 7-Series or an LS if purchased today.

Luxury cars are not responsible purchases. Do you really think an S-Class is worth 40 grand more than an optioned out Impala or Crown Victoria?

Yes!

I don't want to go into this huge thing about luxury cars, but the point is, if you can afford it and you're not hurting anyone, then it's responsible.

[HurricaneSteve]

Yes!

I don't want to go into this huge thing about luxury cars, but the point is, if you can afford it and you're not hurting anyone, then it's responsible.

This whole thing goes back to your comment that people aren't irresponsible with their money. If that was the case, I'd really like to know how a person who comfortably buys a 70 thousand dollar car would do so on the basis that it was cheaper than a comparable car that was 75 or 80 thousand.

[Raza]

This whole thing goes back to your comment that people aren't irresponsible with their money. If that was the case, I'd really like to know how a person who comfortably buys a 70 thousand dollar car would do so on the basis that it was cheaper than a comparable car that was 75 or 80 thousand.

Oh god, it's same argument over and over.

There's a difference between price and value. 

[850CSi]

not some overweight barge that I'm going to worry will leave me stranded on the side of the road every time I start up the car.

[ro51092]

Steve, if they're driving a 7er or an S-Klasse, chances are that they have an expensive house. What's the point of buying a home in Omaha, when they want a luxury car? Sorry, but it's a bullshit argument.

[Tave]

Steve, I agree with you. When you're spending that much money on a car, the money is going to waste.

And that's okay. Money isn't everything in this world, and if people want to spend a lot of it on expensive cars, then more power to them. I'd have at least one amazing vehicle if I were really well off.

But you can't argue that that a couple grand makes any sort of difference by that point. The people that buy these machines are spending more than that on options packages.

Seriously, do you guys really think that someone spending 80K on a car is going to turn to his wife and say:

"Holy shit honey, I just found a LS460 in another town for $3,224.65 less than we're going to be paying for our 7-series. We'd better go make this deal and save some money!"

[850CSi]

LS starts at $61K. S550 starts at $86K. 750i starts at $76K.

Some people buy them because they're foolish enough to believe that they're going to be substantially more reliable than a German car.



If you like cars that are boats on the road, there is nothing better than an LS. It's quick in a straight line, smooth, comfortable, and built very well. But there's a reason why most enthusiasts wouldn't be caught dead in one.

[HurricaneSteve]

Steve, I agree with you. When you're spending that much money on a car, the money is going to waste.

And that's okay. Money isn't everything in this world, and if people want to spend a lot of it on expensive cars, then more power to them. I'd have at least one amazing vehicle if I were really well off.

But you can't argue that that a couple grand makes any sort of difference by that point. The people that buy these machines are spending more than that on options packages.

Seriously, do you guys really think that someone spending 80K on a car is going to turn to his wife and say:

"Holy shit honey, I just found a LS460 in another town for $3,224.65 less than we're going to be paying for our 7-series. We'd better go make this deal and save some money!"

That's my point! When it comes to this price range, the gap in "prestige" isn't as great as some would like to believe.