Audi A4 2.0t vs BMW 330i

[TBR]

An A4 2.0t comparably equipped to the S4 and 330i I used to prove my point earlier costs $38,995. Which means there is a whopping $8000 difference between the A4 2.0T and 330i compared to a $4500 difference between the S4 and 330i

Only because the 330i used in the comparison had a lot of options.

First, it didn't. Second, all of those prices are for comparably equipped and almost fully loaded cars.  

[cozmik]

TBR, was your choice the S4, or a regular A4?

My choice would be the 325i, it still gets from 0-60 in under 7 seconds, and outhandles the Audi, has more interior space and comfort, and doesn't cost much more than a comparably-quick A4. Go easy on the options, and it's not really that expensive. And it's a lot more car.

I have to agree. The 3 series used to be pretty expensive comapred to its competitors, but with the 2006, it is pretty compeitive. You get more stuff for the same money. Sunroof is even standard now, and that costs over $1,000 in all it's main competitors. The 325i I drove was well equipped with premium package and automatic and had a sticker around 36.5, which is fairly competitve, especially compared to the old one.

[SJ_GTI]

I think I agree with TBR. BMWDave you keep changing the argument so much its hard to follow.

The S4 is a "natural" competitor to the M3, but it is also the closest competitor Audi has to a sport package 330i, and in actuality is priced closer to the 330i than the A4 2.0T.

I also disagree with people saying the 330i sport isn't as "hardedged" as the S4. It most certainly is! It come with the same size wheels, fatter rubber, and suspensions are equally "harsh" by mainstream sedan standards.

That being said, I have never driven the S4, but unless its handling is different than how most magazines have described it I can't say I would choose an S4 over a 330i sport. While the S4 would have the power advantage, I would bet the 330i could hang with it just fine on a track.

As for the review, it was pretty worthless. It really just set the stage and declared a winner. It didn't really provide much information.

[TBR]

TBR, was your choice the S4, or a regular A4?

My choice would be the 325i, it still gets from 0-60 in under 7 seconds, and outhandles the Audi, has more interior space and comfort, and doesn't cost much more than a comparably-quick A4. Go easy on the options, and it's not really that expensive. And it's a lot more car.

I have to agree. The 3 series used to be pretty expensive comapred to its competitors, but with the 2006, it is pretty compeitive. You get more stuff for the same money. Sunroof is even standard now, and that costs over $1,000 in all it's main competitors. The 325i I drove was well equipped with premium package and automatic and had a sticker around 36.5, which is fairly competitve, especially compared to the old one.

The 325i might be competitively priced (it always has been), but the 330i most definitely isn't.  

[ifcar]

"The second email read: "Dear Audi, send us the sportiest A4 ya got. Sincerely, Inside Line." The response was the delivery of a bright red 2.0 T quattro sedan with a six-speed manual transmission, a sport package, a premium package, assorted other sundries and a sticker price of $35,995."

Probably if they had asked for a S4 they would have gotten it.

And, I have never argued that the S4 doesn't compete with the M3, but it is also the closest competitor from Audi for the 330i. My price numbers show that, whether or not it is a sports model shouldn't matter.

So its only about price now?  Just because their price tages are within 6K of each other they are similar cars?  If I would make that argument we would have a 40K Honda Odyssey competing with a Vette

Let me see, both the S4 and 330i have 4 doors and a similar amount of space. You have no argument, it doesn't matter whether or not one car is a special sports model, as long as the prices are close. Face it, the 3-series is wildly overpriced.

Now you try to turn the argument toward whether the 3er is overpriced....stick to one argument at a time.  I have provided many reasons why the M3 competes more with the S4 than the 330i does.

Hmm, let me see.  Both the A6 and the M5 have similar amounts of space, so that means they compete?

If the M5 is closer in price to A6 than the 545i is, then yes! This is stupid, just because a car is a high performance model doesn't mean it has to be compared to high performance models.

So are you comparing them solely on price?

Price, room, and door count.

Too many examples where that doesn't work.

So you would say, for example, that a WRX STi competes more with an A4 2.0T than it does with a Lancer EVO? Similar price, similar interior room, same number of doors, but the EVO is less money, so it doesn't compete.

How about GTO vs. Mustang GT? The GTO has more room and a higher price, does that mean that they don't compete?

And I could bring out more, if you want.

[TBR]

"The second email read: "Dear Audi, send us the sportiest A4 ya got. Sincerely, Inside Line." The response was the delivery of a bright red 2.0 T quattro sedan with a six-speed manual transmission, a sport package, a premium package, assorted other sundries and a sticker price of $35,995."

Probably if they had asked for a S4 they would have gotten it.

And, I have never argued that the S4 doesn't compete with the M3, but it is also the closest competitor from Audi for the 330i. My price numbers show that, whether or not it is a sports model shouldn't matter.

So its only about price now?  Just because their price tages are within 6K of each other they are similar cars?  If I would make that argument we would have a 40K Honda Odyssey competing with a Vette

Let me see, both the S4 and 330i have 4 doors and a similar amount of space. You have no argument, it doesn't matter whether or not one car is a special sports model, as long as the prices are close. Face it, the 3-series is wildly overpriced.

Now you try to turn the argument toward whether the 3er is overpriced....stick to one argument at a time.  I have provided many reasons why the M3 competes more with the S4 than the 330i does.

Hmm, let me see.  Both the A6 and the M5 have similar amounts of space, so that means they compete?

If the M5 is closer in price to A6 than the 545i is, then yes! This is stupid, just because a car is a high performance model doesn't mean it has to be compared to high performance models.

So are you comparing them solely on price?

Price, room, and door count.

Too many examples where that doesn't work.

So you would say, for example, that a WRX STi competes more with an A4 2.0T than it does with a Lancer EVO? Similar price, similar interior room, same number of doors, but the EVO is less money, so it doesn't compete.

How about GTO vs. Mustang GT? The GTO has more room and a higher price, does that mean that they don't compete?

And I could bring out more, if you want.

The Evo/Sti argument works, but the other one doesn't as the GTO is the only car even close to Mustang that offers the same level of performance.  Besides, this isn't the point of my argument, the point of my argument is that the S4 competes with the 330i just as much (more imho) as the A4 2.0t does.

[ifcar]

You didn't say performance, you said doors, interior space, and price. In performance, the 330i isn't close to the S4, so your comparison would be out.

[TBR]

You didn't say performance, you said doors, interior space, and price. In performance, the 330i isn't close to the S4, so your comparison would be out.

I meant that the GTO is the only rwd coupe even close to the Mustang in price.

[cozmik]

TBR, was your choice the S4, or a regular A4?

My choice would be the 325i, it still gets from 0-60 in under 7 seconds, and outhandles the Audi, has more interior space and comfort, and doesn't cost much more than a comparably-quick A4. Go easy on the options, and it's not really that expensive. And it's a lot more car.

I have to agree. The 3 series used to be pretty expensive comapred to its competitors, but with the 2006, it is pretty compeitive. You get more stuff for the same money. Sunroof is even standard now, and that costs over $1,000 in all it's main competitors. The 325i I drove was well equipped with premium package and automatic and had a sticker around 36.5, which is fairly competitve, especially compared to the old one.

The 325i might be competitively priced (it always has been), but the 330i most definitely isn't.

Actually the 330i is priced competitively as well. Compared with the A4 3.2, optioned out as similar as possible (auto, premium package, sport package, premium leather, xenons, sunroof, premium sound, sat radio, power everything, heated seats etc, wood trim) they are within ~$500 of each other. The 330i has an MSRP of $43,665, the A4 3.2 is $43,120.

[Raza]

Well, guys, for those who praise BMWs for superb balance seem to have turned a blind eye to this article--Audi sent the sportiest A4--one with a peppy engine, the lightest structure, and a six speed manual.  Had they asked for the sportiest A4 and were replied with an A4 3.2 DSG or automatic, I'd have been incredibly disappointed.  As I've said before, straight line performance doesn't necessarily make a car sporty.  For example, Honda's Accord V6.  Fast in a straightline, but the Passat is much sportier car.  

[TBR]

TBR, was your choice the S4, or a regular A4?

My choice would be the 325i, it still gets from 0-60 in under 7 seconds, and outhandles the Audi, has more interior space and comfort, and doesn't cost much more than a comparably-quick A4. Go easy on the options, and it's not really that expensive. And it's a lot more car.

I have to agree. The 3 series used to be pretty expensive comapred to its competitors, but with the 2006, it is pretty compeitive. You get more stuff for the same money. Sunroof is even standard now, and that costs over $1,000 in all it's main competitors. The 325i I drove was well equipped with premium package and automatic and had a sticker around 36.5, which is fairly competitve, especially compared to the old one.

The 325i might be competitively priced (it always has been), but the 330i most definitely isn't.

Actually the 330i is priced competitively as well. Compared with the A4 3.2, optioned out as similar as possible (auto, premium package, sport package, premium leather, xenons, sunroof, premium sound, sat radio, power everything, heated seats etc, wood trim) they are within ~$500 of each other. The 330i has an MSRP of $43,665, the A4 3.2 is $43,120.

An A4 3.2 equipped comparably to the 330i I did earlier would cost $44,270, still $3000 cheaper than the BMW (and the A4 is one of the more expensive cars in this class). Raza, I think the 3.2l is regular auto only for the time being.  

[Raza]

A 330i with everything I need is 41K, and a 330i with everything I want is around 43 or 44K.  I'm fairly picky as well.

And as for the engine--the older car, I believe the 325 fit the character of the car better, but the larger one seems fit with the 3 litre.

[TBR]

A 330i with everything I need is 41K, and a 330i with everything I want is around 43 or 44K.  I'm fairly picky as well.

And as for the engine--the older car, I believe the 325 fit the character of the car better, but the larger one seems fit with the 3 litre.

I believe there is a typo there. Anyway, a 330i equipped as I would like (leather, satellite radio, and sports package) is $41,115 compared to $35,895 for an A4 2.0t and $49820 for an S4 (the only way to get a sunroof is by getting the premium package rokon.gif).  

[Raza]

A 330i with everything I need is 41K, and a 330i with everything I want is around 43 or 44K.  I'm fairly picky as well.

And as for the engine--the older car, I believe the 325 fit the character of the car better, but the larger one seems fit with the 3 litre.

I believe there is a typo there. Anyway, a 330i equipped as I would like (leather, satellite radio, and sports package) is $41,115 compared to $35,895 for an A4 2.0t and $49820 for an S4 (the only way to get a sunroof is by getting the premium package rokon.gif).

Typo in my post?  It's fairly accurate.

I rebuilt my ideal 330i.  42-44K, depending on Nav.  I don't want satellite radio.  Metallic paint, leather, sport, premium, comfort.  

The A4 I want is 42-44K as well, but with an automatic.  Which means I'd choose the 330i every time (plus it's got RWD).

[TBR]

A 330i with everything I need is 41K, and a 330i with everything I want is around 43 or 44K.  I'm fairly picky as well.

And as for the engine--the older car, I believe the 325 fit the character of the car better, but the larger one seems fit with the 3 litre.

I believe there is a typo there. Anyway, a 330i equipped as I would like (leather, satellite radio, and sports package) is $41,115 compared to $35,895 for an A4 2.0t and $49820 for an S4 (the only way to get a sunroof is by getting the premium package rokon.gif).

Typo in my post?  It's fairly accurate.

I rebuilt my ideal 330i.  42-44K, depending on Nav.  I don't want satellite radio.  Metallic paint, leather, sport, premium, comfort.  

The A4 I want is 42-44K as well, but with an automatic.  Which means I'd choose the 330i every time (plus it's got RWD).

Oops, I didn't read that very carefully. But, I am not quite sure how you managed to get them at the same price when equipped comparably, I will have to check it out. And, one could argue that you don't need any 330i...  

[TBR]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

[TBR]

""Then why didn't Audi," the inquisitive savvy readers will ask, "send an A4 powered by its new 255-hp, 3.2-liter V6?""

Actually, the question I asked as an inquesitive savvy reader was, "why didn't they test the S4?" Seriously, the S4 really isn't that much more expensive than the 330i, or at least the difference in price isn't any bigger than the one between the 330i and A4 2.0T. My choice is the Audi.

The S4 starts at almost 47K, and for that money, were talking BMW M3 territory.  The M3 is less than 500 dollars more.

A couple of things: 1. The M3 is a coupe 2. The M3 doesn't have as many standard features 3. The 325i is the BMW in the A4 2.0T's territory yet they used the 330i, that is certainly no more fair than comparing the S4 to the 330i. Also, I am looking up prices.

I'll help you.  The M3 starts at 47, 300, while the Audi starts at 46, 820.

I'll help you, the A4 2.0T Quattro starts at 30k and the 330i starts at 37k

All right, I'll help you again.  The BMW costs $41,390, and the Audi cost 35,995.
Those are the vehicles in the test, and those are the numbers.

I'll help you again:
BMW 330i:
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Sport Package
Power Rear Sunshade
Park Distance Control
Active Cruise Control
On-Board Navigation System
Satellite Radio
$47990

Audi S4:
Premium Package
Audio Package
Navigation System
Heated Front and Rear Seats
Power Rear Sunshade
$52447

Difference- $4457
Difference Between the Cars Tested (which probably weren't equally equipped)- $5395

What do you have to say now Bimmer Boy?

I can't believe no one caught this, you can't get active cruise control or rear back-up sensors on the S4 and therefore they wouldn't be included in the price.  

[Raza]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

[TBR]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.  

[TBR]

$45440 is the right price for a 330i comparably equipped to the $52447 S4 I used earlier. So the differences between a A4 2.0t and 330i and the S4 and same 330i are almost identical for comparably equipped cars.  

[cozmik]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.

When I built them I got similar numbers to Raza, and I did include the cold weather package on both. The final price difference going by sticker is really irrelevant considering the numbers before the comma were the same and what those numbers were.

[Raza]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.

Yes, I did.  I always choose cold weather.
I said Sport, Premium, Comfort, but I meant Cold Weather instead of Comfort.  

[TBR]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.

Yes, I did.  I always choose cold weather.
I said Sport, Premium, Comfort, but I meant Cold Weather instead of Comfort.

That is what I figured. Did you get metallic paint and leather?  

[Raza]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.

Yes, I did.  I always choose cold weather.
I said Sport, Premium, Comfort, but I meant Cold Weather instead of Comfort.

That is what I figured. Did you get metallic paint and leather?

Yup.  Metallic gray, and the leather is included in the $2,200 Premium package.

[TBR]

$43,795 for a 330i with the things you mentioned and a comparably equipped A4 3.2 would be $42,870

Not that much...but mine wasn't that expensive... it was in the 42 range, a touch over 42.  Could your destination be higher?

Did you get the cold weather package? You didn't list it but in the past you have selected comparable packages.

Yes, I did.  I always choose cold weather.
I said Sport, Premium, Comfort, but I meant Cold Weather instead of Comfort.

That is what I figured. Did you get metallic paint and leather?

Yup.  Metallic gray, and the leather is included in the $2,200 Premium package.

This is just bizarre then.  

[Raza]

It is bizarre.  Did you put a 6 disc changer in?  

[TBR]

It is bizarre.  Did you put a 6 disc changer in?

Nope.  

[Raza]

It is bizarre.  Did you put a 6 disc changer in?

Nope.

Neither did I.  

Odd, isn't it?