Whoops... :(

[L. ed foote]

I feel bad for those who have to fight tickets.

Why?  It really isn't that big a deal, at least not in NYS.

[the nameless one]

Absolutely, 100% wrong. Most numerous (which unsubstantiated) does not equal the "greatest," not even by the most drug-and-NHTSA induced stretch of the imagination. By far the most numerous complaints are the most petty. Noise disturbances rank pretty high on complaint lists too. But they are not "great" complaints either.

My point is that not enough tickets go to trial: and it is an undeniable fact that speeding fines are a huge net gain. Taking more to trial would reduce the economic benefits of speeding fines greatly.

Go ahead and look it up: city and state budgets are public domain.

OK, I meant numerous. You put/ read  your own definition of "greatest" into what I said.

Fines are not a net gain. How do you figure a ticket that will garner on average around a hundred and fifty bucks ( or less ) is a profit for the writing agency/officer  or the court? Since in most places the fine money doesn't stay local, looking up city budgets is meaningless unless the agency  are citing under a local law. Around here and in many places the money goes to the state, and when everything is balanced out those fines dont cover the expenses involved. Of course there will be those states where the money stays local and of course all the speed demons here and elsewhere like to point to those few examples.....

[Raza]

I don't like that attitude.  I've been busted a few times and every time I deserved it.  I was speeding and I got caught.  He knows he was speeding and he got caught.  The guy didn't have a gun on him, but he knew he was speeding and actually guessed low.  He got caught...fair and square.  If the cop guessed high or he wasn't speeding at all, he should fight it. 

You don't "deserve" to get caught unless you're doing three times the limit on a surface street.

[Raza]

Unless things have changed very recently, there isn't a point system in Washington state. A moving violation is a moving violation; a no-blinker ticket is the same as 15 mph over. The only other possible outcome record-wise is to win or otherwise have the ticket thrown out. Not very likely in most cases I would think.

My ticket was only $71 (he wrote it for 5mph over). It's just not worth the hassle for me to fight the system and spend hours at the court house. And yes, you bet that the powers that be know this fact. This was an out-of-town ticket as well (250 miles from home) adding profoundly so to the hassle factor.

$71 and 5 over is a throwaway in PA.  No points.  I'd have loved that, but since I was doubling the speed limit, I had to take a 6 over. 

[Soup DeVille]

OK, I meant numerous. You put/ read? your own definition of "greatest" into what I said.

Fines are not a net gain. How do you figure a ticket that will garner on average around a hundred and fifty bucks ( or less ) is a profit for the writing agency/officer? or the court? Since in most places the fine money doesn't stay local, looking up city budgets is meaningless unless the agency? are citing under a local law. Around here and in many places the money goes to the state, and when everything is balanced out those fines dont cover the expenses involved. Of course there will be those states where the money stays local and of course all the speed demons here and elsewhere like to point to those few examples.....

In most places it goes to the municipality. Period. Not only does it go to the municipality, but there are federal funds that are dependant on certain levels of enforcement.

Do you know what A-133 or GASB 34 is?

Look, my wife audits the city governments of most of southest Michigan. Not only is traffic enforcement a huge net gain, but if you look at the ratio of tickets given per capita and compare that to the financial troubles of that same city the correlation is obvious.

[the nameless one]

In most places it goes to the municipality. Period. Not only does it go to the municipality, but there are federal funds that are dependant on certain levels of enforcement.

Do you know what A-133 or GASB 34 is?

Look, my wife audits the city governments of most of southest Michigan. Not only is traffic enforcement a huge net gain, but if you look at the ratio of tickets given per capita and compare that to the financial troubles of that same city the correlation is obvious.

Fine amounts must be tremendously more where you live, then.

[Catman]

insurance companies donate radar guns to teh police
thats because they know they'll get their money back and then some
and it's good press

Who do I call to get free radar units?

[Raza]

Who do I call to get free radar units?

Who do I call to get free radar guns?  I really want to see how fast I can wave my hand in front of my face. 

[Soup DeVille]

Fine amounts must be tremendously more where you live, then.

They seem to be pretty consistant throughout the US.

Honestly, think about. Police officers have to be on duty- whether they are actively ticketing people or not we still need a police force for more important matters. The labor cost of having police ticketing people is debatable, as are court costs. Even if there were no speed limits, we would still need courts and police forces.

How long does it take to write a ticket anyways? 10 minutes? 15? And the fine is going to be at least $70, more often $100 to $200. How is this not a profitable exercise?
The following is an excerpt from a May 2007 story ran in the Canton Ohio newspaper:

Troopers stopped 1.4 million drivers and wrote 563,565 tickets in 2006, including citations to 1,410 drivers for driving faster than 100 mph, the newspaper said...

...Fifty-seven of the state?s 1,537 troopers wrote more than 1,000 tickets, including one state trooper who issued 1,530 citations while working Interstate 80, which runs east-to-west in northern Ohio.

That's right- across the state of Ohio, 1537 trooper wrote an average of 366 tickets apiece: levying an estimated $50 million on fines.

[Catman]

In most places it goes to the municipality. Period. Not only does it go to the municipality, but there are federal funds that are dependant on certain levels of enforcement.

Do you know what A-133 or GASB 34 is?

Look, my wife audits the city governments of most of southest Michigan. Not only is traffic enforcement a huge net gain, but if you look at the ratio of tickets given per capita and compare that to the financial troubles of that same city the correlation is obvious.

In MA all traffic fines are divided 50/50 between the municipality and the state.  In my town it goes into the town's general fund.  It's really not any kind of benefit to us financially and in the eleven years I've been there I haven't seen any pressure from the town hall to write more citations.  If anything I've seen a bit of pressure from the chief since he hears so many speeding complaints from residents.

[Soup DeVille]

In MA all traffic fines are divided 50/50 between the municipality and the state.? In my town it goes into the town's general fund.? It's really not any kind of benefit to us financially and in the eleven years I've been there I haven't seen any pressure from the town hall to write more citations.? If anything I've seen a bit of pressure from the chief since he hears so many speeding complaints from residents.

I've heard that argument before, and I believe you when you say you've never had any pressure from the town hall: but then again, how many times has the mayor ever given you an order? Would you listen to it if he did?

When you hear a speeding complaint from a resident, tell me: is that resident complaining about a speeder on the interstate, or about one zooming down the street in front of his house yards away from where his kids play?

Why then does it seem that speed enforcement is more concerned with higher traffic areas than residential neighborhoods? It couldn't possibly be simply "fishing where the fish are plentiful," could it?

I love the "there's no financial benefit" argument as well. No, the police department rarely sees any direct benefit, and "quotas" are against most union work rules. However, that's like me taking 20 dollars from you, putting ten into my left pocket, ten into my right and then showing you my empty hands. Except in this case, you are the hands, the state is one pocket, and the city is another.

[Raza]

I've heard that argument before, and I believe you when you say you've never had any pressure from the town hall: but then again, how many times has the mayor ever given you an order? Would you listen to it if he did?

When you hear a speeding complaint from a resident, tell me: is that resident complaining about a speeder on the interstate, or about one zooming down the street in front of his house yards away from where his kids play?

Why then does it seem that speed enforcement is more concerned with higher traffic areas than residential neighborhoods? It couldn't possibly be simply "fishing where the fish are plentiful," could it?

I love the "there's no financial benefit" argument as well. No, the police department rarely sees any direct benefit, and "quotas" are against most union work rules. However, that's like me taking 20 dollars from you, putting ten into my left pocket, ten into my right and then showing you my empty hands. Except in this case, you are the hands, the state is one pocket, and the city is another.

I think I need to act that one out, but I'm a big picture guy.  Give me 80 dollars. 

[Soup DeVille]

I think I need to act that one out, but I'm a big picture guy.? Give me 80 dollars.?

Only if you have eight hands.

[Raza]

Only if you have eight hands.

I've got five pockets.  50 bucks?

[Soup DeVille]

I've got five pockets.? 50 bucks?

Sure, next time you catch me speeding, and convince me to pull over.

[sparkplug]

In MA all traffic fines are divided 50/50 between the municipality and the state.  In my town it goes into the town's general fund.  It's really not any kind of benefit to us financially and in the eleven years I've been there I haven't seen any pressure from the town hall to write more citations.  If anything I've seen a bit of pressure from the chief since he hears so many speeding complaints from residents.

I thought it went into the police officer's donut fund. It kind of takes care of itself. You eat too many donuts and the less people you can catch.

[Catman]

I thought it went into the police officer's donut fund.

Doesn't work like that really.  Every three months we get a catalog with all kinds of cool merchandise listed.  You can order stuff based on the number of citations you write, not unlike the candy bar sales drive they have in elementary school.  I'm really struggling to get the all-in-one flashlight/microwave this quarter.  Looks like I'll be hanging around the school zone tomorrow.

[Raza]

Sure, next time you catch me speeding, and convince me to pull over.

You don't want to tempt me with that, Sir Loyn.  I have 6 seasons of Dukes of Hazzard on DVD.  I know how make people pull over. 

[Soup DeVille]

You don't want to tempt me with that, Sir Loyn.? I have 6 seasons of Dukes of Hazzard on DVD.? I know how make people pull over.?

Jesus Christ dude, I just spit my coffee all over my keyboard!

[Catman]

I've heard that argument before, and I believe you when you say you've never had any pressure from the town hall: but then again, how many times has the mayor ever given you an order? Would you listen to it if he did?

When you hear a speeding complaint from a resident, tell me: is that resident complaining about a speeder on the interstate, or about one zooming down the street in front of his house yards away from where his kids play?

Why then does it seem that speed enforcement is more concerned with higher traffic areas than residential neighborhoods? It couldn't possibly be simply "fishing where the fish are plentiful," could it?

I love the "there's no financial benefit" argument as well. No, the police department rarely sees any direct benefit, and "quotas" are against most union work rules. However, that's like me taking 20 dollars from you, putting ten into my left pocket, ten into my right and then showing you my empty hands. Except in this case, you are the hands, the state is one pocket, and the city is another.

We don't do hardly any enforcement on the highway, the state does.  Most of the complaints center around secondary roads and neighborhoods.  We catalog the complaints and assign officers accordingly.  We don't have quotas during normal operations.  When the state sponsors click it or ticket or OUI/seat belt enforcement they want citations (call it a quota).  If you want the OT you write tickets, if not don't work.  Whether you love the argument or not really doesn't matter much to me.  I'm not going to sugar coat anything for you.  You have a disdain toward enforcement and that's fine but often the argument on your side is overstated. 

If it makes you feel better I haven't written a citation in over a year.

[TurboDan]

We don't do hardly any enforcement on the highway, the state does.  Most of the complaints center around secondary roads and neighborhoods.  We catalog the complaints and assign officers accordingly.  We don't have quotas during normal operations.  When the state sponsors click it or ticket or OUI/seat belt enforcement they want citations (call it a quota).  If you want the OT you write tickets, if not don't work.  Whether you love the argument or not really doesn't matter much to me.  I'm not going to sugar coat anything for you.  You have a disdain toward enforcement and that's fine but often the argument on your side is overstated. 

If it makes you feel better I haven't written a citation in over a year.

I used to be pretty sympathetic to people complaining about drivers going fast on local streets.  I, personally, do not go fast on residential streets - but some people are insane and do go fast.  That said, I really think that the IQs of most parents have gone down exponentially in recent years.  In my parents' neighborhood, I often see toddlers playing ALONE in the street.  The parents put up little "caution, children playing" signs that they bought at Target or something, expecting cars to slow down so that their children can continue playing in the middle of the street unsupervised.

There was one day when the kids had actually set up a little fort in the middle of the street, and drivers had to nervously navigate around it, fearing that they'd accidentally hit a kid and wind up being sued and losing their car, home, and everything else.  And if a kid did get hit - the media wouldn't frame it as a lunatic parent who's too lazy to supervise their children, they'd frame it as "speeders going too fast down streets where children play."  Honestly, the people on my parents' street are the extreme.  There are literally 3 year olds playing in the middle of the street without anyone around.  I've contemplated reporting them anonymously to DYFS (child welfare in NJ) or putting a note in their mailbox.  One of those kids is going to end up dead some day if their parents don't get on the ball.

[rohan]

No radar?? He "guessed" you were going 75?? This sounds like an easily winnable case.? Go to court.

If their laws are anything like Michigans, I would just void that ticket if he fought it, and write "prima-facia speed violation" .  He was probably traveling the speed limit when you passed him.  If that's the case- you lose.

[rohan]

It's all a game.? If they catch me fair-and-square, fine.? I don't complain.? But if they catch me without any evidence and only "think" I was speeding, why should I readily hand over my money without a fight?? There's nothing honorable about paying a speeding ticket.?

Speeding isn't a game- it's a dangerous thing and it 's results often kill people.  Seeing you drive past him when he's doing the speed limit is evidence enough-  And it's completely honorable to be honest.

For every 10 mph more you travel the stopping distance quadrupples- or so the accident investigations god in his classes-
Dr. Daniel G. Lee, Ph.D., Director of Highway Traffic Safety Programs, Civil & Environmental Engineering,  Michigan State University.

[Raghavan]

Speed doesn't kill.

[rohan]

No, there's no need to lie, and I would never endorse doing so in court.

Most times you can plea bargain to a lesser-points or no points infraction.

If you really want to be a pain the ass, file a motion for discovery to check the certifications for whatever speed measuring device you got popped with. File for a continuance.

In Michigan they are not required anymore to be certified by Dr. Lee at MSU.  Now the manufacturers are the ones who certify them.  There is nothing to discover anymore- been that way for about 10 years.

[rohan]

Speed doesn't kill.

where did I say speed kills?

[Raghavan]

where did I say speed kills?

"Speeding isn't a game- it's a dangerous thing and it 's results often kill people."

[rohan]

In most places it goes to the municipality. Period. Not only does it go to the municipality, but there are federal funds that are dependant on certain levels of enforcement.

Do you know what A-133 or GASB 34 is?

Look, my wife audits the city governments of most of southest Michigan. Not only is traffic enforcement a huge net gain, but if you look at the ratio of tickets given per capita and compare that to the financial troubles of that same city the correlation is obvious.

Since your in Michigan I can you're wrong.? If the municipality has adopted the Michigan Motor Vehicle Code, then that municipality gets 1/3 of the FINES only -on most tickets the fines only make up somewher e around $30 or so bucks- ther rest are court costs and fees.? The other 2/3's of the fines go the the county sheriff department and the state police.? The court of the county the ticket was written gets those.? Most tickets only get the municipality around 10-15 bucks per citation- but the? bigger ones like DWLS or OUIL get them alot more.? A OUIL gets the municipality somewhere around $600 and then the department can ask for a judgement against the defedant for "eemergency response fees" up to $650 but generally they are given only about $200-350 for that.? Now if the municipality has their own traffic court and magistrate they can collect all of the money but they have to pay all the clerks and magistrates in that court so in the end it's usually more than they collect.

[rohan]

"Speeding isn't a game- it's a dangerous thing and it 's results often kill people."

Rag- having trouble understanding tonight?  It doesn't say speed kills- reread it!

[Raghavan]

Rag- having trouble understanding tonight?  It doesn't say speed kills- reread it!

yes it does.