Edmunds: G37 vs. 335i.

[MexicoCityM3]

Whether you consider this battle a pedigreed recasting of the Camaro-Mustang rivalry or a superficial spat to be had between handsomely paid professionals, one thing's certain: Neither coupe would have gotten this much engine if the other didn't exist.

Very likely, they wouldn't stop or handle as well, either. Nor would they each offer an active steering system as an option. At heart, the 2007 BMW 335i and 2008 Infiniti G37 are chasing the same driver.

And by most standards, the Infiniti G37 is an impressive car and a lot of fun. But it isn't as quick as the BMW 335i, nor does it engage its driver with equal commitment.

Due to its higher price and shorter features list, the 3 Series won this test by only 2.3 points. But contained within those points are all the details that make it a more intimate and involving driving partner.

"Nearly every aspect of our drive feels more natural in the 335i," one of our editors recorded in the notebook for this comparison. "I'm not sure what the price difference is, but the BMW feels $15,000 better."


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=121462?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

[Raza]

Still wouldn't pay 45 grand for one. 

[omicron]

I, er, don't care for either of these cars.

[red_shift]

Still wouldn't pay 45 grand for one.?

I'm curious. I have driven a colleague's Carrera 4s (2003 model) and I did not find the experience overwhelming. I did not drive it very hard, because it was not my car. Do you feel all aspects of driving in your Boxster match or beat the experience in say, an E46?

[TheIntrepid]

I'm curious. I have driven a colleague's Carrera 4s (2003 model) and I did not find the experience overwhelming. I did not drive it very hard, because it was not my car. Do you feel all aspects of driving in your Boxster match or beat the experience in say, an E46?

Raza doesn't like BMWs.

[Raza]

I'm curious. I have driven a colleague's Carrera 4s (2003 model) and I did not find the experience overwhelming. I did not drive it very hard, because it was not my car. Do you feel all aspects of driving in your Boxster match or beat the experience in say, an E46?

I've driven one E46, and that was about 5 years ago.  It was an automatic 323i.  I'd buy a stick one (really, even though it's a BMW, I'd buy one).  But compared to about every other car I've driven (and it's a long list, about 75 cars, mostly performance models) it's better in just about every aspect (to drive; obviously it doesn't have the passenger space of an S55 AMG) than all of them, save for the Elise.  I drove it to work today.  I drove my mother's S500 to work yesterday.  I enjoyed, even just mucking about on the highway at 70ish mph, I enjoyed it much more than the S500; even though the car is pegged more as a highway cruiser.  And it is an accomplished highway cruiser, but just not as enjoyable. 

So, yeah, I'd say "match or beat" would be pretty accurate.

And I've driven a 997 C4 (non S).  It was not as fun as my Boxster.  I think you really ought to go for a RWD 911.

[red_shift]

I've driven one E46, and that was about 5 years ago.? It was an automatic 323i.? I'd buy a stick one (really, even though it's a BMW, I'd buy one).? But compared to about every other car I've driven (and it's a long list, about 75 cars, mostly performance models) it's better in just about every aspect (to drive; obviously it doesn't have the passenger space of an S55 AMG) than all of them, save for the Elise.? I drove it to work today.? I drove my mother's S500 to work yesterday.? I enjoyed, even just mucking about on the highway at 70ish mph, I enjoyed it much more than the S500; even though the car is pegged more as a highway cruiser.? And it is an accomplished highway cruiser, but just not as enjoyable.?

So, yeah, I'd say "match or beat" would be pretty accurate.

And I've driven a 997 C4 (non S).? It was not as fun as my Boxster.? I think you really ought to go for a RWD 911.

Sure. I will check it out any chance I get. I would love a mid engined, rear drive sedan actually, but according to some (including Miro) it will be too noisy and the ride will not be perfect.

[Raza]

Sure. I will check it out any chance I get. I would love a mid engined, rear drive sedan actually, but according to some (including Miro) it will be too noisy and the ride will not be perfect.

Mid engined sedan would be tough.  Look even at the Clio V6; down to two seats, it was still apparently very noisy.  Rear engine could be done easily, though. 

If you do a mid engine sedan, and you shove the seats way forward and put the engine between the trunk and the rear seats, it could work.  But it would probably look even more cab forward than a 300M.  Proportions would be off, to say the least.

[red_shift]

Mid engined sedan would be tough.? Look even at the Clio V6; down to two seats, it was still apparently very noisy.? Rear engine could be done easily, though.?

If you do a mid engine sedan, and you shove the seats way forward and put the engine between the trunk and the rear seats, it could work.? But it would probably look even more cab forward than a 300M.? Proportions would be off, to say the least.

I meant to say rear engined sedan. That would be my dream car, seriously. Nevermind the oversteer characteristics. I can control the Go-Kart when driving like crazy, I should do OK with the sedan.

[Raza]

I meant to say rear engined sedan. That would be my dream car, seriously. Nevermind the oversteer characteristics. I can control the Go-Kart when driving like crazy, I should do OK with the sedan.

Rear engine sedan should work pretty easily.  Just take a 911 and add two doors (after lengthening the chassis, of course).  Why all the naysayers?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Mid engined sedan would be tough.? Look even at the Clio V6; down to two seats, it was still apparently very noisy.? Rear engine could be done easily, though.?

If you do a mid engine sedan, and you shove the seats way forward and put the engine between the trunk and the rear seats, it could work.? But it would probably look even more cab forward than a 300M.? Proportions would be off, to say the least.

Just put the rear seats behind the engine. It will probably turn out to be a long one-box design...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Rear engine sedan should work pretty easily.? Just take a 911 and add two doors (after lengthening the chassis, of course).? Why all the naysayers?

[red_shift]

Rear engine sedan should work pretty easily.? Just take a 911 and add two doors (after lengthening the chassis, of course).? Why all the naysayers?

There was a big brouhaha of a discussion a few years back when I started a thread in C&D forums about this exact question. 'Why not rear engined rear drive sedans?'. 

[Raza]

There was a big brouhaha of a discussion a few years back when I started a thread in C&D forums about this exact question. 'Why not rear engined rear drive sedans?'.?

I remember that, vaguely.  Were you the one who started it?

[omicron]

I think this almost qualifies as an FMR layout:

[Raza]

Front midship doesn't count. 

[omicron]

Front midship doesn't count.

As a...?

[Raza]

As a...?

Mid engine.

[omicron]

Mid engine.

Physically speaking, it would, but by traditional front/mid/rear engine definitions, it wouldn't.

[Raza]

Physically speaking, it would, but by traditional front/mid/rear engine definitions, it wouldn't.

Agreed.  That's why I said it doesn't count and not that it is not at all.  I'd laugh if someone called the S2000 a mid engine sports car though.

[omicron]

Agreed. That's why I said it doesn't count and not that it is not at all. I'd laugh if someone called the S2000 a mid engine sports car though.

I laughed when Wikipedia called a VE Commodore a front mid-engined RWD sedan.

[LonghornTX]

Sounds like the new G37 may not be what I was expecting....too bad.

On another note, I test drove a TL-S today (along with a GT).  For a FWD car, wow  .  Definately a very competant ride with one of the best gearboxes in the market.

[Raza]

Sounds like the new G37 may not be what I was expecting....too bad.

On another note, I test drove a TL-S today (along with a GT).? For a FWD car, wow? .? Definately a very competant ride with one of the best gearboxes in the market.

I drove the regular TL, and man, it was not very good to me.  TSX is a better car, in my opinion.

[MexicoCityM3]

I'm curious. I have driven a colleague's Carrera 4s (2003 model) and I did not find the experience overwhelming. I did not drive it very hard, because it was not my car. Do you feel all aspects of driving in your Boxster match or beat the experience in say, an E46?

Depends on the E46. I have driven a Boxster S in a slalom course for a bit. Unfortunately it was an automatic .

Power was sensibly less than in the M3. The chassis cornered much flatter but I had not enough time with the car to really push it to the limits. I felt I could go faster (also while cornering) in my M3 but likely that was simply due to familiarity.

I also drove a Carrera 4 a few years back (a 2000 model) and also found the experience underwhelming, and that was back when I had a 328Ci. A day after driving the Carrera 4 I rode in an F360 Modena that belonged to the same guy. Now, THAT was an experience. The Ferrari felt so much better than my BMW in every possible way. Not so the Carrera 4. I feel base Porsches are just slightly better than BMWs (in some model comparisons not even better). Ferrari is at a whole different level as an experience IMHO.

[red_shift]

I remember that, vaguely.? Were you the one who started it?

Yes.  My reasoning was : If 50/50 SWD is so good, what will be 30:70 or 40:60 like?

Well, you could get to 40:60 even with a front layout, but for a family sedan, it would probably be very tough.

[red_shift]

What's that? Are those Ferrari wheels I am seeing?

[Raza]

Yes.? My reasoning was : If 50/50 SWD is so good, what will be 30:70 or 40:60 like?

Well, you could get to 40:60 even with a front layout, but for a family sedan, it would probably be very tough.

Clearly, 50:50 is overrated.  Do supercar manufacturers strive for 50:50 weight distribution?  No.  They stick the engine behind the driver, where it should be on a performance car.  So many exotics are mid engined, you'd think people would realize that having about 60% or more over the rear makes for the best handling cars in the world.  Sorry to champion my own cause here, but if you look at the time the Boxster S (and I'm talking 3.2, not 3.4 Variocam) put down in Evo's Knowledge section, you'll see that despite being way down on power, it's getting times reserved mostly for supercars.  The Cayman's even faster (although I'd like to see how close a 3.4 v 3.4 comparison would be).  The Toyota MR-2 was fantastic to drive, despite being ugly and pretty low on power (138), because the dynamics were sound.  The NC MX-5 is still not as good to drive as the MkIII MR-2 was. 

I say we do it.  I don't have the tools.  I don't have the know-how.  But I do have the space...

[red_shift]

Depends on the E46. I have driven a Boxster S in a slalom course for a bit. Unfortunately it was an automatic .

Power was sensibly less than in the M3. The chassis cornered much flatter but I had not enough time with the car to really push it to the limits. I felt I could go faster (also while cornering) in my M3 but likely that was simply due to familiarity.

I also drove a Carrera 4 a few years back (a 2000 model) and also found the experience underwhelming, and that was back when I had a 328Ci. A day after driving the Carrera 4 I rode in an F360 Modena that belonged to the same guy. Now, THAT was an experience. The Ferrari felt so much better than my BMW in every possible way. Not so the Carrera 4. I feel base Porsches are just slightly better than BMWs (in some model comparisons not even better). Ferrari is at a whole different level as an experience IMHO.

So it does not come as a surprise to you that my colleague rates his BMW 530i a slightly better feeling driver than his (gasp) Porsche!
(I am sure he is exaggerating though)

[MexicoCityM3]

So it does not come as a surprise to you that my colleague rates his BMW 530i a slightly better feeling driver than his (gasp) Porsche!
(I am sure he is exaggerating though)

Seems like a stretch to me. Is it an E39 or an E60? The E39 was regarded as the best driving sedan in the world for many years, so maybe.

[TheIntrepid]

What's that? Are those Ferrari wheels I am seeing?

If I'm not mistaken, it's a Tatra sedan.