Quote from: 565 on December 06, 2023, 07:47:12 AMUrus has better power to weight than the Cybertruck.

Right, because the Urus is making 10,000lb-ft of torque or whatever the Tesla is pulling off the line...?

Quote from: MrH on December 06, 2023, 07:36:22 AMIt wasn't a sledgehammer.  It was a dead blow hammer.  Literally designed to minimize damage.

You just can't help falling for the fraud over and over and over.

Hit your own car with one of you think it's harmless

Quote from: Laconian on December 05, 2023, 11:21:58 AMIn what ways is it similar? My recollection of the Model S launch and reaction must be very different from yours.

Not saying any particular person is doing this - but I do recall the same atmosphere of doomerism, Musk-hate and predictions of failure going back at least a decade.  By this point, it is fair to say one cannot simply straight away write off Tesla or any given product it launches.

Quote from: 565 on December 06, 2023, 07:47:12 AMUrus has better power to weight than the Cybertruck.

If you want to see the Cybertruck beat a vehicle that has 150 more HP, look here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1v0FNR3-Xc

That Urus was bad. 12.3s in the 1/4 mile? That's almost a second slower than nominal (11.4s:  https://www.caranddriver.com/lamborghini/urus)

The Urus is 5300 lbs/641 hp = 8.3 lb/hp. The Hummer EV truck is 9000 lbs/1000 hp = 9 lb/hp. The Cybertruck is 6800 lbs/845 hp = 8.0 lb/hp. So, to me, the Cybertruck should be quickest overall (though my hunch is it loses a roll race the Urus per my previous post detailing the high(er) speed limitations of single speed EV performance).

Tesla seemed to mostly solve the high speed performance drop off in the Plaid with track package.  Camissa commented it seemed to be solved in the Cybertruck as well.

https://twitter.com/EZebroni/status/1734410603136241763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1734410603136241763%7Ctwgr%5Eda932b94cfcb98218a073278c0f6e07b0ec56946%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Finsideevs.com%2Fnews%2F700498%2Fford-truck-rescues-tesla-cybertruck-snowy-hill%2F

I would think that most pickups would cruise up that little hill, snow or no snow.

Haha. But to be fair, a part of it is tires, particularly those tires look way too pressurized.

I'm guessing that was the triple motor version?  Two motors in the rear, one in the front?  Even with bad, over inflated tires, the rears are all over the place in terms of control just spin a ton.  Seems like a lot of "opportunity" to fine tune traction control.

I don't think the dual motor version has a locking differential at all?  This thing will never be great off road.

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 06, 2023, 08:00:23 AMRight, because the Urus is making 10,000lb-ft of torque or whatever the Tesla is pulling off the line...?

It might actually.

Tesla is stating wheel torque for the Cybertruck, NOT the engine torque that is the standard in the industry. HummerEV also used wheel torque.

Quote from: MrH on December 13, 2023, 07:56:52 AMI don't think the dual motor version has a locking differential at all?  This thing will never be great off road.

The dual motor version has a locking front and rear, which is why many suspect it might the better off-road version.

No auto company has gotten the calibration of multi engine power distribution down pat. Even the Rivian with it's on paper superior 4 engines version is disappointing.

https://youtu.be/adZztW0YbJ0?si=zoU32skqsr8pcP9G

You cannot view this attachment.

Wow... those A pillars really are something. The unobstructed field of view from the driver's seat must be like 30 degrees.

I like how they used the Fit's Magic Seat idea but the cushion barely even touched his thighs!

Quote from: Laconian on December 13, 2023, 08:45:03 PMYou cannot view this attachment.

Wow... those A pillars really are something. The unobstructed field of view from the driver's seat must be like 30 degrees.

I like how they used the Fit's Magic Seat idea but the cushion barely even touched his thighs!

That looks like a badly generated AI image of a car's interior.

Quote from: Galaxy on December 13, 2023, 04:40:00 PMThe dual motor version has a locking front and rear, which is why many suspect it might the better off-road version.

No auto company has gotten the calibration of multi engine power distribution down pat. Even the Rivian with it's on paper superior 4 engines version is disappointing.

Also, the types of people buying a Cybertruck probably have very little off-road experience (no judgement, just a guess), but since it says "truck" in the name, they suppose it'll just automatically do offroady truck things for them.

There's more truck in "Truck" than there is sport in "Sport Utility Vehicle." 

Quote from: Morris Minor on December 14, 2023, 12:46:10 PMThere's more truck in "Truck" than there is sport in "Sport Utility Vehicle."

I disagree ... Most "trucks" these days are bloated 4 door soccer mom mobiles with pretty useless 5.5' beds and front aid dams that lower the ground clearance to crossover levels and equipped with gigantic wheels with fairly low profile street tires

Quote from: r0tor on December 14, 2023, 02:36:38 PMI disagree ... Most "trucks" these days are bloated 4 door soccer mom mobiles with pretty useless 5.5' beds and front aid dams that lower the ground clearance to crossover levels and equipped with gigantic wheels with fairly low profile street tires

Yeah because just like most people with SUVs, most trucks rarely go off road, but that doesn't mean they don't get used as trucks.  Trucks are meant to haul a bunch of stuff from place to place, and the ultimate version of that, the semi truck, is pretty garbage off road.

Even a 5.5 foot bed hauls more than most SUVs, and with a few exceptions most 1/2 ton trucks will tow more than their full size body on frame SUV counterparts and cost less.

My dad uses his Tundra to haul a bunch of fishing stuff and rods, haul a bunch of dirty gardening supplies and dirt/mulch etc, and tow a 28 foot boat. He has never taken it off road.  He got the offroad TRD Pro trim, but the least useful part of the truck is the offroadness of it (no air dam, fox shocks, lift, offroad tires, locking rear diff and multi terrain select).

A normal street trim Tundra with the fuel saving air dam, less ground clearance, and street tires would have served him better in how he and probably 99% of people use their trucks.  The offroadness to it is really just for the looks, just like how most people with wranglers, broncos, defenders, rarely take them offroad beyond what a family crossover can do. 

If anything off road capability compromises the other true truck capabilites such as payload and towing. The Raptor and TRX had significantly less towing and payload than their standard counterparts.  Trucks are supposed to carry more and tow more stuff than you can in other vehicles. To that end today's trucks do usually deliver with higher tow and haul ratings than ever before.

Quote from: r0tor on December 14, 2023, 02:36:38 PMI disagree ... Most "trucks" these days are bloated 4 door soccer mom mobiles with pretty useless 5.5' beds and front aid dams that lower the ground clearance to crossover levels and equipped with gigantic wheels with fairly low profile street tires

My point is, even with 5½-ft beds, trucks are better and doing truck type stuff than SUVs are at doing anything "sporty," unless the sport is competitive sitting three inches higher than in a sedan. It's a nomenclature thing.

Like a "sharing" size bag of M&Ms. Everyone knows that "sharing" is code for "fatso-portion size."

Totally for last two posts!!

And the "Tremor" Maverick can only tow 2000ish lbs vs the regular 4000lbs turbo version..

Quote from: 565 on December 15, 2023, 09:59:15 PMYeah because just like most people with SUVs, most trucks rarely go off road, but that doesn't mean they don't get used as trucks.  Trucks are meant to haul a bunch of stuff from place to place, and the ultimate version of that, the semi truck, is pretty garbage off road.

Even a 5.5 foot bed hauls more than most SUVs, and with a few exceptions most 1/2 ton trucks will tow more than their full size body on frame SUV counterparts and cost less.

My dad uses his Tundra to haul a bunch of fishing stuff and rods, haul a bunch of dirty gardening supplies and dirt/mulch etc, and tow a 28 foot boat. He has never taken it off road.  He got the offroad TRD Pro trim, but the least useful part of the truck is the offroadness of it (no air dam, fox shocks, lift, offroad tires, locking rear diff and multi terrain select).

A normal street trim Tundra with the fuel saving air dam, less ground clearance, and street tires would have served him better in how he and probably 99% of people use their trucks.  The offroadness to it is really just for the looks, just like how most people with wranglers, broncos, defenders, rarely take them offroad beyond what a family crossover can do. 

If anything off road capability compromises the other true truck capabilites such as payload and towing. The Raptor and TRX had significantly less towing and payload than their standard counterparts.  Trucks are supposed to carry more and tow more stuff than you can in other vehicles. To that end today's trucks do usually deliver with higher tow and haul ratings than ever before.

On a percentage basis - how often is it used as a "truck" and the 98% of the time it is not, is it the best tool for doing that

Quote from: r0tor on December 14, 2023, 02:36:38 PMI disagree ... Most "trucks" these days are bloated 4 door soccer mom mobiles with pretty useless 5.5' beds and front aid dams that lower the ground clearance to crossover levels and equipped with gigantic wheels with fairly low profile street tires

100% agree with my new BFF r0tor here. Modern pickup trucks are terrible across the board ESPECIALLY for pickup truck things. Just when one thinks that it can't possibly get worse, it does. Will mos def be sociological study fodder in the distant future.

Quote from: 565 on December 15, 2023, 09:59:15 PMYeah because just like most people with SUVs, most trucks rarely go off road, but that doesn't mean they don't get used as trucks.  Trucks are meant to haul a bunch of stuff from place to place, and the ultimate version of that, the semi truck, is pretty garbage off road.

Even a 5.5 foot bed hauls more than most SUVs, and with a few exceptions most 1/2 ton trucks will tow more than their full size body on frame SUV counterparts and cost less.

My dad uses his Tundra to haul a bunch of fishing stuff and rods, haul a bunch of dirty gardening supplies and dirt/mulch etc, and tow a 28 foot boat. He has never taken it off road.  He got the offroad TRD Pro trim, but the least useful part of the truck is the offroadness of it (no air dam, fox shocks, lift, offroad tires, locking rear diff and multi terrain select).

A normal street trim Tundra with the fuel saving air dam, less ground clearance, and street tires would have served him better in how he and probably 99% of people use their trucks.  The offroadness to it is really just for the looks, just like how most people with wranglers, broncos, defenders, rarely take them offroad beyond what a family crossover can do. 

If anything off road capability compromises the other true truck capabilites such as payload and towing. The Raptor and TRX had significantly less towing and payload than their standard counterparts.  Trucks are supposed to carry more and tow more stuff than you can in other vehicles. To that end today's trucks do usually deliver with higher tow and haul ratings than ever before.

When it comes down to it, utility is the ultimate luxury these days.  Having a vehicle that can do it all without having the 2% of time where you're shit out of luck is a luxury.

It's more of a security blanket IMO.

I think we've lost our capacity for improvisation and adaptation. We want to buy readymade solutions with all the capability we might need in advance. Back when I was a kid my dad would rent a trailer from a place two miles away and hook it up to the station wagon when he needed to haul topsoil or whatnot.

Our jack of all trade vehicles might do a lot but they the tradeoffs are still present and they are largely offloaded to society in the form of externalities.

My god, if I could count on multiple hands the number of vehicles with "AWD" that wouldn't be stuck in the first place in the snow if they had proper ground clearance and/or a legit 4WD instead of the bullshit they consider 4WD/AWD these days.

Ground clearance is king.  None of the CUVs or utes have it.

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 12, 2023, 05:50:45 PMhttps://twitter.com/EZebroni/status/1734410603136241763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1734410603136241763%7Ctwgr%5Eda932b94cfcb98218a073278c0f6e07b0ec56946%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Finsideevs.com%2Fnews%2F700498%2Fford-truck-rescues-tesla-cybertruck-snowy-hill%2F

I would think that most pickups would cruise up that little hill, snow or no snow.

I have a low range and three mechanical lockers.  If I was running the wrong tires at high PSI I'd be having the same issues.

Electronic gizmos are great (really) but tires are ultimately what is making contact with the surface.  No amount of digital wizardry will change that.

Quote from: Submariner2 on December 16, 2023, 11:15:53 PMElectronic gizmos are great (really) but tires are ultimately what is making contact with the surface.  No amount of digital wizardry will change that.

You'd be amazed and heartbroken seeing what a seemingly junk XJ on shit tires with open diffs can do in the hands of a skilled driver.

The electro gizmos are nothing but a hindrance in practical offroading. And that's coming from somebody who has used Toyota's Crawl Control out of curiosity. It's basically garbage if you have any inkling of how to drive offroad.

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 16, 2023, 08:45:06 PMMy god, if I could count on multiple hands the number of vehicles with "AWD" that wouldn't be stuck in the first place in the snow if they had proper ground clearance and/or a legit 4WD instead of the bullshit they consider 4WD/AWD these days.

Ground clearance is king.  None of the CUVs or utes have it.

well, according to C&D the average Silverado 4x4 that most people buy only has 8.08" of ground clearance

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 12:24:39 AMYou'd be amazed and heartbroken seeing what a seemingly junk XJ on shit tires with open diffs can do in the hands of a skilled driver.

The electro gizmos are nothing but a hindrance in practical offroading. And that's coming from somebody who has used Toyota's Crawl Control out of curiosity. It's basically garbage if you have any inkling of how to drive offroad.

I guess that is true to some extent.  The stock Geolander A/S tires on my G were surprisingly good on sloppy terrain.  Not nearly as much as the Ridge Grapplers, but still.

I'm also amazed (but not heartbroken) having seen first hand how guys in $120,000 built wranglers have wrecked their "rigs" doing things way beyond their skillset 

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 08:28:45 AMwell, according to C&D the average Silverado 4x4 that most people buy only has 8.08" of ground clearance

Which makes sense - 99% of Silverado drivers will never drive off road in any serious fashion.

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 08:28:45 AMwell, according to C&D the average Silverado 4x4 that most people buy only has 8.08" of ground clearance

Same as Maverick or an Outback.