Quote from: MrH on October 09, 2019, 07:26:44 AM
Subaru dealership came back $500 off from my cut off to make the Outback happen...

Tell them to knock another 1000 off, or you'll cut your own nuts off.

Quote from: MrH on October 09, 2019, 07:26:44 AM
Subaru dealership came back $500 off from my cut off to make the Outback happen...

Tell them to forget it, you'll go somewhere else, then start to walk away.

Quote from: FoMoJo on October 09, 2019, 07:32:26 AM
Tell them to forget it, you'll go somewhere else, then start to walk away.

Meh.  That's too angry and aggressive.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 09, 2019, 07:28:01 AM
Tell them to knock another 1000 off, or you'll cut your own nuts off.

That's more like it! 

I'm actually going to counter with give me another $1000 on the trade in and I'll order.

Did some playing around with the numbers.  I can save another $1000 if I wait for VIP pricing in January, but it's basically a wash because I'll have more depreciation on the Accord.  I think there's a lot of uncertainty in the used car market between now and January.  Best to lock in the trade in now.  Best case: they can't get what I want in until January and honor the VIP pricing too

Quote from: MrH on October 09, 2019, 07:48:47 AM
Meh.  That's too angry and aggressive.

You can be polite about it.  It really rattles them when you call their bluff.  Personally, I'm no good at it, but my wife is an expert.

Quote from: FoMoJo on October 09, 2019, 09:38:40 AM
You can be polite about it.  It really rattles them when you call their bluff.  Personally, I'm no good at it, but my wife is an expert.

Walking out generally works. 

Meh, my last negotiations I emailed a dozen dealers and then told the dealer that had the car I really wanted to beat the best price I got from the emails (and attached it)

Quote from: r0tor on October 09, 2019, 10:49:08 AM
Meh, my last negotiations I emailed a dozen dealers and then told the dealer that had the car I really wanted to beat the best price I got from the emails (and attached it)

This works if you have a very specific car you're looking for.

Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 08, 2019, 06:16:00 AM
Dogs, bass guitars, old trucks and furry porn mostly.

Quote from: FoMoJo on October 09, 2019, 09:38:40 AM
You can be polite about it.  It really rattles them when you call their bluff.  Personally, I'm no good at it, but my wife is an expert.

My problem is that they call my bluff 90% of the time, and then I actually walk out and don't buy anything. Think of all the cars I could've had by now if they didn't do that.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 09, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
My problem is that they call my bluff 90% of the time, and then I actually walk out and don't buy anything. Think of all the cars I could've had by now if they didn't do that.

Well there is a certain technique involved.  As I said, I'm no good at it, but the first time I watched my wife in action was when we traded our '86 Tempo in for a '93 Aerostar.  She had been haggling in her good natured way with the salesman and had gotten up to leave a couple of times and the guy had gone to his manager a couple of times and finally the manager came out, and then it got really interesting.  It became a challenge and he wasn't going to let us walk out the door.  Finally, there was a deal for what I thought was an impossibly low price. 

What was funny, a couple of days later after I'd dropped off the car and picked up the van, I needed to go back for something.  The salesman saw me and came over and said "You know that Tempo you dropped off?  We started it up and were driving it over to the used car dealer and it ran out of gas.  We were wondering if your wife siphoned the gas tank."  I laughed.

Such a lovely old bus...






And then they go and spoil it...

The groundbreaking, Barris built custom Hirohata Merc:



Leadsled legend. I like it. Always loved 50s cars.

Quote from: shp4man on October 12, 2019, 03:14:05 PM
The groundbreaking, Barris built custom Hirohata Merc:



Leadsled legend. I like it. Always loved 50s cars.

Nothing says Lead Sled like those old Mercs.  As I've mentioned before, my first car was a '51.  I like them better with a flat head though.

Enjoying the new Autobahn from Munich to Mühldorf am Inn. My route is 80 km long (50 miles) and it's all NO SPEED LIMIT! My sister snapped this photo, brought her to the airport today. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-usa-used-analysis/rising-old-used-car-prices-help-push-poor-americans-over-the-edge-idUSKBN1WQ1AP

I'll say I definitely noticed a lack of options in the <$10K used car market when I was shopping for a Jetta replacement this summer compared to when I bought the VW 5 years ago, since that was the price range I was looking for (and ultimately settled on something slightly above that).  Even some of the bigger, used car "superstores" had very little to offer in the 4-figure price range.  5 years ago, pretty much every dealership had some selection in that price range.  I was surprised to go to the used car online listings for some of the larger dealerships around here and only find maybe 2 cars in that price range, and in at least one instance 0, used cars under $10K.  Only one dealer had a volume of used cars in that 6-10 year old age bracket under 10K, but they were all post-recall VW 2.0TDIs (hard pass) that were likely snapped up for cheap at an auction. 

I had initially chalked it up to inflation.  Didn't dawn on me that the vintage of cars I'd be looking for (6-10 years old) would have been from right at the low point of the Recession when new car sales had tanked and thus there would be fewer used cars today to choose from.

220 km/h... you'd be arrested and jailed here for that.

Quote from: MX793 on October 13, 2019, 10:23:04 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-usa-used-analysis/rising-old-used-car-prices-help-push-poor-americans-over-the-edge-idUSKBN1WQ1AP

I'll say I definitely noticed a lack of options in the <$10K used car market when I was shopping for a Jetta replacement this summer compared to when I bought the VW 5 years ago, since that was the price range I was looking for (and ultimately settled on something slightly above that).  Even some of the bigger, used car "superstores" had very little to offer in the 4-figure price range.  5 years ago, pretty much every dealership had some selection in that price range.  I was surprised to go to the used car online listings for some of the larger dealerships around here and only find maybe 2 cars in that price range, and in at least one instance 0, used cars under $10K.  Only one dealer had a volume of used cars in that 6-10 year old age bracket under 10K, but they were all post-recall VW 2.0TDIs (hard pass) that were likely snapped up for cheap at an auction. 

I had initially chalked it up to inflation.  Didn't dawn on me that the vintage of cars I'd be looking for (6-10 years old) would have been from right at the low point of the Recession when new car sales had tanked and thus there would be fewer used cars today to choose from.

Just going to copy pasta my Jalopnik comment on this:

"I keep coming back to this anecdote...

In 2003, I bought a 1993 Honda Accord. 90K miles, pristine condition, brown and manual, $2200. This was not a crazy deal at the time, though it was lower than the norm.

Hell, toss 10 year old Accords out as they were basically Acura Legends by comparison. A 10 year old Civic today costs about double after inflation. I do think it is about the combo of the shell shock of the recession and the increased durability of cars today. A 1993 Accord was the exception to the rule back then- the average 1993MY vehicle was SPENT by year 10. Today a 10 year old vehicle is newer than the average. In Montana I think the average age of cars on the road is SIXTEEN.

I'm also thinking more relaxed rules about car age in financing is stretching things out too. I'd bet 10 years ago you couldn't finance a car more than 5-6 years old. Now you can finance a car that's 10 years old, albeit at a slight rate premium."

I'd wager people are harder up for cash since the recession, and the insanely low rates we've had all this time enable people to keep a note, which drives up prices.

I would also say cash for clunkers took out a good chunk of that lower end used car market.

C4C only ate up about 700K cars... I'm just not convinced that moved the needle in a country with 300M private vehicles. We are talking less than a quarter percent....

Quote from: Morris Minor on October 14, 2019, 09:59:00 AM
220 km/h... you'd be arrested and jailed here for that.

I hit 240 km/h later.

This is a brand new Autobahn and there's no speed limit. It's pure driving/speeding freedom. I'm enjoying it while it lasts.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2019, 12:23:31 PM
C4C only ate up about 700K cars... I'm just not convinced that moved the needle in a country with 300M private vehicles. We are talking less than a quarter percent....

I think there's like 270M cars registered in the US.  The age of vehicles on the road is not a normal distribution though.  It's like an exponential decay shape.  The 700k cars that were destroyed solely came from the tail end of that distribution.  So it's not like a random allotment of the .25% was chopped out of the entire population, but instead 50% of the tail end were.  That would make a really huge impact on the market.

C4C would probably not even be in the market anymore today

Quote from: MrH on October 14, 2019, 12:18:56 PM
I would also say cash for clunkers took out a good chunk of that lower end used car market.

C4C happened a decade ago.  Most of the cars turned in under that program were 10+ years old at the time (so from the 1990s) and would be pushing 20 years old or more today.  At least around here, the only cars you see much over 12 years old either were summer-only cars or were southern/southwestern cars that somebody brought in.  Anything driven year round in this climate would be a constant money-pit of fighting corrosion damage to keep in from failing annual safety inspection.  Perhaps other parts of the country, like Florida or SoCal, where a 20 year old car would still have a solid frame/body to be a viable driver, are seeing an impact from that program.  But I think we're past the point where there are really any major ripple effects skewing the market.  Especially in the rust belt.

There are a few >20 year old cars left here, but they are generally on their way out, or collectors' items. And again I seriously doubt the 0.2% of cars people junked really swayed the market. I think the biggest drivers are cars getting more durable and banks getting more lenient. It's a credit bubble

C4C hardly did a thing for anything, including sales of fancy new safe cars.

Yup, inflation over time and FINALLY a realization during the repression that people could drive a car longer than 3 years has pushed used car prices up quite a lot.

Interesting short documentary.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljVAA1Tr8Yo

You guys are right.  It's probably out of the system now, but I would argue it did have an effect at the lower end of the market at the time.

84 month loans definitely have something to do with it.  The housing recession probably had more to do with it.  A lack of new car sales will lead to a lack of used car availability down the line.

With C4C, you had to either buy your new car (with help from the voucher) outright, or get a five year minimum lease.