GASP!?!!?!?@???!??!@, i'm thinking of buying an automatic.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So after dealing with the first few weeks of a wonderful minnesota winter i've been thinking about what my next winter car will be(sorry NX, i think your not going to be around next year).

I would like to install an automatic start in the car and in general am looking for something more luxury than the evil egg(nx).

As odd as it sounds i'm looking for something with an automatic tranny, sure i'll be stabbing at the floor with my left foot when i go to start the car(for the first few weeks that is). I'm sorry for anyone who is in complete shock, i know its hard to take in(me of all people WANTING an automatic....keep your mouth shut chris)

So i decided to make it count, I'm not very knowledgable about the bmw's. I know enough to get my way through a conversation but i'm not about to start rattling off all the chassis and engine codes. So for all you german people i could use your info and advice.

I'm looking at an early E38(is that right?, 96-01 7 series), i really want the 750 simply because it comes loaded to the hill and everyone likes a V12... .

All i know is that the 38's had an upgraded motor as well as a newer tranny(5spd).

So what do you guys think, is the v12 horrible reliability wise compared to the v8? Did the v12 have the same block problems as the v8?

[TheIntrepid]

What you need, is a 1996 Toyota Camry Station Wagon, with the 188hp 3.0L V6 engine and the optional 3rd row seat.

[CALL_911]

What you need are some better jokes.

The 750iL is a nice car. I don't think the 750iL had the cylinder block problem. Of course, there are gonna be some glitches and gremlins here and there, but just see how ChrisV's doing.

[Submariner]

What you need, is a 1996 Toyota Camry Station Wagon, with the 188hp 3.0L V6 engine and the optional 3rd row seat.

Then he can hang himself out of shame.

[Submariner]

First off...the 97 and newer 7's got a new 4.4 V8 along with various interior goodies.  The engine alone is worth the slight price increase.

Second, as far as luxury cars go, it's surly one of the better ones from the time period, but for a tough winter, i'm not sure it's a good choice.

Luckily, my parents live a minute away from me, and I almost always have their G-500.  This most recent storm would have put my 7 out of commission.  I would even be weary about taking the G out if it wasn't on meaty snow tires.  From my experience, RWD vs. RWD, Seven vs. S-class, Mercedes always fair much better in the snow. 

Oh, P.S., don't bother with the V12.  You get chrome door locks, wood on the seat backs,
and a leather covered dash.  You're better doing that on your own, and sleep easy at night knowing you won't have V-12 engine problems.  The optional air suspension that came standard with the V-12 is also, nothing to write home about.

[CALL_911]

First off...the 97 and newer 7's got a new 4.4 V8 along with various interior goodies.  The engine alone is worth the slight price increase.

Second, as far as luxury cars go, it's surly one of the better ones from the time period, but for a tough winter, i'm not sure it's a good choice.

Luckily, my parents live a minute away from me, and I almost always have their G-500.  This most recent storm would have put my 7 out of commission.  I would even be weary about taking the G out if it wasn't on meaty snow tires.  From my experience, RWD vs. RWD, Seven vs. S-class, Mercedes always fair much better in the snow. 

He's looking at the V12's.

Oops, I didn't read. I can see the appeal in a V12. I mean, the thing does have grunt. Thing is, maintenance will be a killer, as will gas. the 4.4L V8 vs. the 5.4L V12 was something like 282 hp vs. 326 hp. Not a significant gain. Now that you mention it, Sub, you're probably right. I suppose I second a V8 E38, and a 4.4L. Either way, you'll be very satisfied.

[Submariner]

Oh, if you don't mind, whats the price range you're looking in?

[LonghornTX]

Be prepared to do a lot of the work on that car yourself if you want to make it affordable for the long-term.  E38s in general seemed pretty reliable when I worked in the dealership, but, like any BMW from the 90s, it is a complex machine for the time period and is now approaching ~10 years old, so the electronics (or the air suspension) may start giving you some headaches.

I would recomend a GS, considering you only need it for a winter car.  You can get a GS300 for some good prices...

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I do all my own work, i'm mechanically capable of fixing this car. That is what would make owning something like this a non issue.

When you read about people putting 4K into their 10 year old BMW its because they don't know a damn thing about cars. They paid someone else to do it, and if they brought it to a dealer then they really paid. A 4K repair bill might consist of 800-1200 dollars in parts(OEM parts from a dealer). I'm not worried about this, and i also can deal with a few electrical gremlins here and there.

I'm looking at the v12s because......well...because its a v12. If i settle for a v8 i would look at 5ers. If i looked at 5er v8's i would look for a manual(just on principal). By limiting myself to the 12 i'm getting around that since the 12 only comes in the 7 and only comes with an automatic. The other reason for the 750 is that it has EVERY option, from premium sound to hids and all the gadgets.

I'm not buying yet, and i am considering my options. The criteria is pretty simple, large RWD luxury car with good power. I've been thinking of a newer Q45(02 and later) or even older LS400's/Q45's or even older A8's(i don't trust audi as much as BMW).

Price isn't set, the lower the better(within reason). i wouldn't want to go much over 10-12K in the extreme(thats low mileage mid-late 90's 750 money).

[nickdrinkwater]

What about an S8, FBC?

[TheIntrepid]

I think it's kinda funny, he drives an AWD rally car, and wants to buy a RWD car as his winter beater.

I love the 750iL though so

[SVT666]

Lincoln LS V8?  I know it's not as luxurious as a 7 series, but it's got good power, it's RWD, and it is somewhat luxurious.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

S8's are hard to find and likely very spendy.

I like them, but part of me just screams stay away from audi.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Lincoln LS V8?  I know it's not as luxurious as a 7 series, but it's got good power, it's RWD, and it is somewhat luxurious.

to new? maybe? never thought of it, never looked at them.

I'm sure they are nice cars but they don't do anything for me and they don't have they type of luxury i'm looking for.

[The Pirate]

I'd probably get the V8 over the 12-cylinder.  ChrisV has a high mileage one that is still in great shape, and he has said that that particular drivetrain is pretty robust.  It's not like the V8 cars are a slouch, and the long wheelbase versions still have a lot of the luxury goodies.

FWIW, I could definitely deal with an automatic in a car like that.  I'd prefer it, even.

[CALL_911]

I think I'd go with a 740i, in terms of the E38's. The V12 didn't have SUCH a massive power increase. As I said earlier, 282 hp vs. 326.

[Submariner]

I do all my own work, i'm mechanically capable of fixing this car. That is what would make owning something like this a non issue.

When you read about people putting 4K into their 10 year old BMW its because they don't know a damn thing about cars. They paid someone else to do it, and if they brought it to a dealer then they really paid. A 4K repair bill might consist of 800-1200 dollars in parts(OEM parts from a dealer). I'm not worried about this, and i also can deal with a few electrical gremlins here and there.

I'm looking at the v12s because......well...because its a v12. If i settle for a v8 i would look at 5ers. If i looked at 5er v8's i would look for a manual(just on principal). By limiting myself to the 12 i'm getting around that since the 12 only comes in the 7 and only comes with an automatic. The other reason for the 750 is that it has EVERY option, from premium sound to hids and all the gadgets.

I'm not buying yet, and i am considering my options. The criteria is pretty simple, large RWD luxury car with good power. I've been thinking of a newer Q45(02 and later) or even older LS400's/Q45's or even older A8's(i don't trust audi as much as BMW).

Price isn't set, the lower the better(within reason). i wouldn't want to go much over 10-12K in the extreme(thats low mileage mid-late 90's 750 money).

Honestly, a 740i with the swapped gear pack that comes with the sport package will be just as fast, but I'm assuming speed isn't your #1 priority.

Standard features (over the V8's) include DSP (which most 740iL's have) Comfort front seats (which again, most 740iL's have) Air suspension, Sat nav (only on later models, and by 00' it came as standard on all 7's, along with xenon headlamps, which were standard by 2000.  (you could not get xenons on a pre-99', unless you by European 7 Xenon fixtures)

I can see the "special factor" a V12.  It's the reason why my dad bought a V-12 S-class as opposed to the V8.  If you can deal with the problems which may arise (which I'm sure you, of all people, can) with the V-12.  Go for it.  It's a silky powerplant.

[Submariner]

I'd probably get the V8 over the 12-cylinder.  ChrisV has a high mileage one that is still in great shape, and he has said that that particular drivetrain is pretty robust.  It's not like the V8 cars are a slouch, and the long wheelbase versions still have a lot of the luxury goodies.

FWIW, I could definitely deal with an automatic in a car like that.  I'd prefer it, even.

With the sport package, the swapped gear ratio's and lower weight means it's nearly as fast as the 12. 

Again, if it were me, I'd get the V8, mainly because I prefer the look of the SWB to the LWB.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I never looked at the difference in wheelbase.

From the pictures i've seen it doesn't look too stretched.

[ChrisV]

Here's my '98 iL. The stretch is NICE and it simply doesn't make the car handle worse (and it does ride better).

The V12 cars get you the power adjustable rear seats and rear seat heaters in northern cars. They also got better cooling systems with little to no problems (unlike the cheap parts on the V8 cars. As I've mentioned i replaced all the cooling system parts on mine just because it had high miles on it. Luckily, did I mention they were cheap? $140 for a radiator, for example). The V12 cars are, according to the people on the E38 forum, less trouble than the V8 cars, and the V8 cars are pretty decent in the '97-98 range. The '99 and up cars have their own set of problems and most are young enough to JUST be getting to the point where the problems start cropping up. Interestingly enough, I'd go for a higher mileage example that had the "fixes" already done.

With the traction control and excellent suspension/brakes, and a decent set of winter tires, these cars are great in the snow and ice. As the owners manual states, however, "cars equipped with traction and stability control are still subject to the laws of physics."

There is a short list of problem areas with them, but they are easily worked on with regular hand tools for the most part. It's almost like BMW knew they needed to be worked on and made them easy... (not really praise, but an observation). But do not take them to the stealer to be worked on. BIG dollars. And often not as good a job as you can do yourself. (though being a member of BMWCCA can get you good discounts on parts at the dealer. I get a 20% discount at Russell BMW locally, putting the parts prices right at internet prices...)

Best bet to get info on the cars, and how to fix/mod them, is e38.org and their forums.

[cawimmer430]

What you need, is a 1996 Toyota Camry Station Wagon, with the 188hp 3.0L V6 engine and the optional 3rd row seat.

[LonghornTX]

I do all my own work, i'm mechanically capable of fixing this car. That is what would make owning something like this a non issue.

When you read about people putting 4K into their 10 year old BMW its because they don't know a damn thing about cars. They paid someone else to do it, and if they brought it to a dealer then they really paid. A 4K repair bill might consist of 800-1200 dollars in parts(OEM parts from a dealer). I'm not worried about this, and i also can deal with a few electrical gremlins here and there.

I'm looking at the v12s because......well...because its a v12. If i settle for a v8 i would look at 5ers. If i looked at 5er v8's i would look for a manual(just on principal). By limiting myself to the 12 i'm getting around that since the 12 only comes in the 7 and only comes with an automatic. The other reason for the 750 is that it has EVERY option, from premium sound to hids and all the gadgets.

I'm not buying yet, and i am considering my options. The criteria is pretty simple, large RWD luxury car with good power. I've been thinking of a newer Q45(02 and later) or even older LS400's/Q45's or even older A8's(i don't trust audi as much as BMW).

Price isn't set, the lower the better(within reason). i wouldn't want to go much over 10-12K in the extreme(thats low mileage mid-late 90's 750 money).

I am just saying, even if you are very mechanically inclined, these cars can be a PIA when they break.  Trust me, I know, I worked with what BMWNA considers some of its best technicians in the country and I remember them always lamenting how much trouble the v-12s were.  If that air suspension goes out (and it likely will), you are looking at some major headaches.  Again, I am sure you can tackle the task, but considering that this car is not going to your baby, but rather your DD, do you really want to deal with those?

Also, I would stay away from the V-12 because in my experience they have many more problems than the updated 4.4L and their parts are quite a bit more expensive, regardless of where you buy them from (economies of scale favor the V8), while the performance difference between the two can only be felt at "illegal" speeds.

[Vinsanity]

I think it's kinda funny, he drives an AWD rally car, and wants to buy a RWD car as his winter beater.

Haha I thought that was funny too

Nothing wrong with wanting a lil taste of luxury in addition to his 2 sports cars, though...

[sandertheshark]

I'm all for the prospect of buying a BMW 750iL, obviously.  But I am quite confused the notion of buying one solely as a winter beater.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

chrisV says the v12 is just as good if not better(reliability wise) than the V8.

LonhornTX says they are much worse than the v8....




I'll certainly do some digging on reliability before i buy.

Sander,

Winter beater is pretty harsh. It would be my main car in winter, but used on and off throughout the summer. I don't see whats wrong with driving it through the winter.

[Eye of the Tiger]

So after dealing with the first few weeks of a wonderful minnesota winter i've been thinking about what my next winter car will be(sorry NX, i think your not going to be around next year).

I would like to install an automatic start in the car and in general am looking for something more luxury than the evil egg(nx).

As odd as it sounds i'm looking for something with an automatic tranny, sure i'll be stabbing at the floor with my left foot when i go to start the car(for the first few weeks that is). I'm sorry for anyone who is in complete shock, i know its hard to take in(me of all people WANTING an automatic....keep your mouth shut chris)

So i decided to make it count, I'm not very knowledgable about the bmw's. I know enough to get my way through a conversation but i'm not about to start rattling off all the chassis and engine codes. So for all you german people i could use your info and advice.

I'm looking at an early E38(is that right?, 96-01 7 series), i really want the 750 simply because it comes loaded to the hill and everyone likes a V12... .

All i know is that the 38's had an upgraded motor as well as a newer tranny(5spd).

So what do you guys think, is the v12 horrible reliability wise compared to the v8? Did the v12 have the same block problems as the v8?

http://www.bmwofnorthamerica.com/



I think websites like that are a load of crap. Get a 750 just to spite them. Or an Audi V8.

[Submariner]

My 7 and the one owned by my parents were flawless save for a few electrical gremlins.  The new models on the other hand faced a different fate.

[CALL_911]

My 7 and the one owned by my parents were flawless save for a few electrical gremlins.  The new models on the other hand faced a different fate.

I thought your parents sold you your car?

[MexicoCityM3]

According to the latest Bimmer buyer's guide for the E38, the V12 has better reliability than the V8. Tune-ups are hellishly expensive though.

[Submariner]

According to the latest Bimmer buyer's guide for the E38, the V12 has better reliability than the V8. Tune-ups are hellishly expensive though.

Huh.  Most of what I hear points to the opposite being true.