174mph Ferrari Is 'Too Slow'

[BMWDave]

174mph Ferrari Is 'Too Slow'


It isn't often that you hear 'Ferrari' and 'too slow' in the same sentence. But that's the complaint raised by one businessman who is demanding a refund over the performance of his ?135,475 360 Challenge Stradale.

Joerg Winterberg, 60, of Berlin, Germany, moaned to Ferrari that his limited-edition supercar was 'only' capable of 174mph, and not the 185mph figure claimed in the sales brochure. "I could have bought a Porsche for much less and still had the same performance. I want my money back," he said. However, the Italian manufacturer has refused to give in to the disappointed owner's demands.

Still, Ferrari does have some happy customers. An auction of rare models at its Maranello factory raised a staggering ?7million. The most expensive item sold was Michael Schumacher's 2004 Formula One title-winning race car, which went for a wallet-busting ?1.8million. Other exotica sold off included a 1961 250 GTB Berlinetta, which fetched ?800,000, and a 1966 365 California that raised ?510,000

[TBR]

A viable complaint when you don't live in a land of oppressive speed limits.

[BMWDave]

A viable complaint when you don't live in a land of oppressive speed limits.

If he complained that in the US he'd be in jail now :D  

[ifcar]

That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.

[BMWDave]

That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.

Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.  

[ifcar]

That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.

Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.

Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.

[BMWDave]

That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.

Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.

Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.

I agree with that, but Ferraris are all about speed, and thats a significant difference in lets say a race or something...(or any race).  With a normal car thats is no problem, but this is a Ferrari.  He paid so much he should get what he paid for.

[ifcar]

All figures are subject to some leeway based on the individual vehicle, and I'd say 6% is more than reasonable.

[BMWDave]

All figures are subject to some leeway based on the individual vehicle, and I'd say 6% is more than reasonable.

Not for a Ferrari.

[TBR]

That's the sort of thing you're supposed to check out BEFORE you buy a car. It would be like a Grand Marquis owner asking for his money back because he could have gotten the same thing for less money in a Crown Vic.

Well, if Ferrari promises something, and they dont give it, he has a right to complain.

Usually statistics like that say "actual results may vary", or something similar. A 6% difference in top speed does not warrant a refund of hundreds of thousands of dollars, nor should it determine which vehicle you buy.

I agree that top speed shouldn't be a deciding factor when buying an econo car in the USA, but buying a Ferrari in Germany is a bit different. Ferraris are meant to go fast and in Germany you can do it legally.  

[Fire It Up]

What if its broken?

[ifcar]

This is ridiculous. It doesn't say anything about the guy racing in the car, nor does it say exactly how he determined how fast the car would go. My guess is that he decided that he didn't really want to have spent so much money on a car, and is trying to find a way to back out. I'm with Ferrari on this, he shouldn't get his money back at all.

[TBR]

So because you don't race your car the manufacturer shouldn't have to deliver on its claims?

[ifcar]

How about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?

[TBR]

How about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?

No, you only spent $35000, this guy spent at least $195000, probably closer to $250000 (I don't know how bad mark up is over there).  

[ifcar]

Has it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?

[ifcar]

How about another example: BMW estimates a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds for the new 325i manual. If I buy that car, and can only personally get it to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, am I entitled to my money back?

No, you only spent $35000, this guy spent at least $195000, probably closer to $250000 (I don't know how bad mark up is over there).

So if you spend less, it's your problem if you're quoted specs that you can't match, but if you spend a lot it suddenly matters?

[TBR]

Has it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?

How can it be user error? Is it really that hard to press the accelerator all the way to the floor?    

[ifcar]

Has it already been proven that it is a problem with the car rather than a user error?

How can it be user error? Is it really that hard to press the accelerator all the way to the floor?  

My question is if he ever proved to Ferrari that the car couldn't go as fast as they quoted.  

[R33 GT-R]

The thing is running his slow ferrari at top speed all the time will turn his engine into mush.  He's just got a case of buyers remorse, deal with it man.  I feel really sorry for him.  

[BMWDave]

Ifcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case.  But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.

[ifcar]

Ifcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case.  But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.

Did Mr. Businessman prove it, or just say it?

[BMWDave]

Ifcar, its totally different if one drive can shift faster than you, in which case you have no case.  But here, at the end of the day, no matter how slow you are able to get there, the fact is that this ferrari should top out at a certain speed, which it didnt.

Did Mr. Businessman prove it, or just say it?

I really have no idea...I am basing my argument on the assumption that this is true.

[ifcar]

That is never something that one should just assume.

[R33 GT-R]

Because then you make an ass out of Iffy and you.  

[Raghavan]

big deal. i bet that old guy can't even handle 174 m.p.h. anyway.

[R33 GT-R]

Here's the car he's trying to return after topping it out.

[BMWDave]

How did that one crash, bryan?

[Raghavan]

How did that one crash, bryan?

he took it off-roading at 174 m.p.h.    

[R33 GT-R]

It doesn't say but looks to be about 80k in damage.   I would say this was maybe a offroad excursion into a field with slight ditch/drop off before the field also a pole or post hit in the front.