Screw the 330d.. Bring the 316d over

[Yawn]

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/06/25/467159.html

800 miles on 1 tank is my kind of deal.. I need it for work 

[Yawn]

i mean the 335d..

[sportyaccordy]

I can't imagine a diesel car being fun

[2o6]

I can't imagine a diesel car being fun

Why not? Brain melting torque of a V8, but without the abysmal MPG's.

[Yawn]

800 miles on 1 tank of gas is great.. That means i will only need to fill up every 2-3 weeks.. I do 90% highway driving so I am sure I will get close.. With Diesel cheaper now this is a great deal.. So yes this is fun..

[Vinsanity]

a 116-hp 3-series sure would test the judgment of brand snobs. It would also struggle to pull ahead of a Prius. I'd rather they just sell the Mini diesel here.

[Yawn]

There are many brand snobs that are green... This would steal Prius sales I am sure.. Mini Diesel is too small for me. Also its too childish for me.. Being in a brand snobby area, many people i know would like to have this choice.

[giant_mtb]

I'd love to have one if I was a traveling businessman of some sort.  Or if I just didn't care about speed.

But since I do...

[Vinsanity]

There are many brand snobs that are green... This would steal Prius sales I am sure.. Mini Diesel is too small for me. Also its too childish for me.. Being in a brand snobby area, many people i know would like to have this choice.

Just to clarify, by "pull ahead" of a Prius, I meant acceleration-wise. The Prius's 11-second 0-60 sprint puts it right at the tail of this Bimmer.

And out of all the Euro brands with presence in the U.S., BMW's sporting pretentions make it difficult for them to sell a car so underpowered and focused on fuel economy. Buyers here are more likely to warm up to a "Blue Efficiency" C-class, Audi A3 TDI, or even a Volvo S40 diesel than a BMW 316d. Heck, BMW would probably have better luck selling a 120d or even a 118d here, granted it doesn't reach too low in the market.

[Raza]

I think they should do a mid-engine, rear drive Mini D using the 330d's engine. 

[nickdrinkwater]

I guess the only people that might drive this are company car drivers who are really desperate for the BMW badge.  Like those 116i drivers.

BTW, did you guys realise the Volvo S80 will soon be available with a 1.6 diesel engine?

[Raza]

I guess the only people that might drive this are company car drivers who are really desperate for the BMW badge.  Like those 116i drivers.

BTW, did you guys realise the Volvo S80 will soon be available with a 1.6 diesel engine?

CJ eagerly awaits it. 

[GoCougs]

Who would buy it though in the US? You get a lower price point, better performance and no diesel smell and noise, in the 335i.

C&D (IIRC) had a value comparison betwixt the 328i, 335i and 335d. The payback for the 335d was way more than 100,000 miles (essentially beyond that of the average ownership time frame of the new car buyer).

[MexicoCityM3]

The 320d is the sweet spot of the diesel 3-series range. At least until BMW comes out with a 323d with the 1-series 200+ bhp engine.

[Cookie Monster]

Want. Badly.

[sportyaccordy]

Who would buy it though in the US? You get a lower price point, better performance and no diesel smell and noise, in the 335i.

C&D (IIRC) had a value comparison betwixt the 328i, 335i and 335d. The payback for the 335d was way more than 100,000 miles (essentially beyond that of the average ownership time frame of the new car buyer).

I've ridden in Jetta diesel cabs... if you don't know cars you wouldn't know the difference. If the payback is that long though then yea I guess it doesn't make a difference; however, we don't know what the cost of a 335d would be here so it's kind of a moot point.

[Speed_Racer]

I just want more diesel choices that aren't large pickup trucks.

[cawimmer430]

a 116-hp 3-series sure would test the judgment of brand snobs. It would also struggle to pull ahead of a Prius. I'd rather they just sell the Mini diesel here.

I don't get it. Why is it such a big deal to Americans when you're riding in a luxury car and loose a race to a cheaper car?

Somebody buying a luxury car, even an entry-level 316d, probably cares more about creature comforts, comfort, the badge and other characteristics. Also, the 316d would rape a Prius in handling, dynamics and sport. So what's the big deal? I am sure that the BMW 0-100 km/h figure given here is also underrated (as is usually the case with German manufacturer claims) so in the end effect the 316d might even be quicker than the Prius. As if that matters though. 


I don't recall hearing people I know personally bitch about the '70s when they were overtaken in their 316i or 200D's by a Volkswagen Golf GTI. It wasn't an issue. They bought their 316i or 200D because of this and that and that was enough. Performance wasn't an issue to them. I suspect it must be the same in the US where most buyers, even BMW folks, aren't true enthusiasts. They care about the badge and something else, but performance is probably irrelevant.

And there is always a 320d or 325d if you want more power...

[Cookie Monster]

I don't get it. Why is it such a big deal to Americans when you're riding in a luxury car and loose a race to a cheaper car?

Somebody buying a luxury car, even an entry-level 316d, probably cares more about creature comforts, comfort, the badge and other characteristics. Also, the 316d would rape a Prius in handling, dynamics and sport. So what's the big deal? I am sure that the BMW 0-100 km/h figure given here is also underrated (as is usually the case with German manufacturer claims) so in the end effect the 316d might even be quicker than the Prius. As if that matters though. 


I don't recall hearing people I know personally bitch about the '70s when they were overtaken in their 316i or 200D's by a Volkswagen Golf GTI. It wasn't an issue. They bought their 316i or 200D because of this and that and that was enough. Performance wasn't an issue to them. I suspect it must be the same in the US where most buyers, even BMW folks, aren't true enthusiasts. They care about the badge and something else, but performance is probably irrelevant.

And there is always a 320d or 325d if you want more power...

+1

I would love a 316d. I don't care if it's slow, because it's not that slow and probably still really fun to drive.

I'm trying to get my parents to get a diesel car after the Accord goes.

[cawimmer430]

+1

I would love a 316d. I don't care if it's slow, because it's not that slow and probably still really fun to drive.

I'm trying to get my parents to get a diesel car after the Accord goes.

I think somebody eying a 316d in the first place really doesn't care about performance. They want a BMW that is sporty yet economical. The 316d is a modern engine so it is bound to have its own kind of agility that should please your average driver. And like I said, if you want more power but still want good gas mileage there is the 318d, 320d, 325d and even the 330d. The 330d and 335d are complete overkill already but they're probably the most "fun" because of their insane torque levels. 

[GoCougs]

I've ridden in Jetta diesel cabs... if you don't know cars you wouldn't know the difference. If the payback is that long though then yea I guess it doesn't make a difference; however, we don't know what the cost of a 335d would be here so it's kind of a moot point.

But non-enthusiasts will still know diesel smell and lag, and the price premium.

C&D had a write up a couple of months ago on the 335d; its base MSRP in the US will be right at $45k.

[Vinsanity]

I don't get it. Why is it such a big deal to Americans when you're riding in a luxury car and loose a race to a cheaper car?

Somebody buying a luxury car, even an entry-level 316d, probably cares more about creature comforts, comfort, the badge and other characteristics. Also, the 316d would rape a Prius in handling, dynamics and sport. So what's the big deal? I am sure that the BMW 0-100 km/h figure given here is also underrated (as is usually the case with German manufacturer claims) so in the end effect the 316d might even be quicker than the Prius. As if that matters though.  

There's a difference between riding around in a luxury car like an Escalade or DTS and a luxury car like the 3-series. Buyers who choose a 3-series for the most part want some semblance or sportiness, and while acceleration isn't everything, 116 hp pulling you to 60 mph in 11 seconds is unacceptable for a modern US-spec BMW.

I don't recall hearing people I know personally bitch about the '70s when they were overtaken in their 316i or 200D's by a Volkswagen Golf GTI. It wasn't an issue. They bought their 316i or 200D because of this and that and that was enough. Performance wasn't an issue to them. I suspect it must be the same in the US where most buyers, even BMW folks, aren't true enthusiasts. They care about the badge and something else, but performance is probably irrelevant.

And there is always a 320d or 325d if you want more power...

And people don't care now if their BMW's are slower than a GTI, because GTI's have always been pretty quick in relation to its contemporaries. It's when their BMW's are slower than cars that are supposed to be slow that it becomes a problem (a more accurate comparison from the 70's would be the 4-cylinder Ford Pinto).

[Raza]

There's a difference between riding around in a luxury car like an Escalade or DTS and a luxury car like the 3-series. Buyers who choose a 3-series for the most part want some semblance or sportiness, and while acceleration isn't everything, 116 hp pulling you to 60 mph in 11 seconds is unacceptable for a modern US-spec BMW.

And it's also because 3ers aren't luxury cars.   

If I wanted a luxury car, I wouldn't get one with such hard plastics. 

[TBR]

But non-enthusiasts will still know diesel smell and lag, and the price premium.

C&D had a write up a couple of months ago on the 335d; its base MSRP in the US will be right at $45k.

$43.9k

That's $2275 more than an AT 335i. At $2.50/gallon, break even is under 60k. Plus owners will probably find themselves getting a lot of the premium back in resale value.

[GoCougs]

$43.9k

That's $2275 more than an AT 335i. At $2.50/gallon, break even is under 60k. Plus owners will probably find themselves getting a lot of the premium back in resale value.

No, per my post it's $44,725 (yer forgettin' delivery charge).

[TBR]

No, per my post it's $44,725 (yer forgettin' delivery charge).

Indeed I did, turns out BMW BYO doesn't list that in MSRP. Regardless, the difference remains $2275.

[93JC]

In response to Wimmer's comments: a slow, underpowered car, no matter its dynamic abilities, interior appointments and other features, is not luxurious. North Americans won't even buy a compact ('economy') car with only 116 hp anymore.

[Yawn]

I think somebody eying a 316d in the first place really doesn't care about performance. They want a BMW that is sporty yet economical. The 316d is a modern engine so it is bound to have its own kind of agility that should please your average driver. And like I said, if you want more power but still want good gas mileage there is the 318d, 320d, 325d and even the 330d. The 330d and 335d are complete overkill already but they're probably the most "fun" because of their insane torque levels. 

i agree with you once!!

i already have my fast weekend car.. i commute distances for work and dont want no hybrid.. a 316d is perfect.. i always think the US market is too wide.. the market needs to be cut up.. certain consumers have different needs because of where they live..

[hounddog]

Just to clarify, by "pull ahead" of a Prius, I meant acceleration-wise. The Prius's 11-second 0-60 sprint puts it right at the tail of this Bimmer.

But at 63 mpg hwy, you would only have to out accelerate it once and then you would never see it again.    And, it proves hybrids are all hogwash.

And out of all the Euro brands with presence in the U.S., BMW's sporting pretentions make it difficult for them to sell a car so underpowered and focused on fuel economy. Buyers here are more likely to warm up to a "Blue Efficiency" C-class, Audi A3 TDI, or even a Volvo S40 diesel than a BMW 316d. Heck, BMW would probably have better luck selling a 120d or even a 118d here, granted it doesn't reach too low in the market.

The handling is still there, and if the BMW sporting brand snobs need or want a sporty diesel they would probably choose the 335d.  It is the best sporty car out there, this one is aimed at women who believe in brand snobbery and economy are important.

I would love to have 5 series that is able to realize 55+ mileage for the many many long trips I take, acceleration be damned.  

edit; a thought just crossed my mind, why have we not yet seen a hybrid diesel?  Would one be capable of 70mpg?

[ChrisV]

The current Roundel magazine (the magazine of the BMW Club of America) has an article about living with the 335d for a week out in Vegas (and out in the desert around it). Summary, great big block gobs of torque down low, but runs out of breath quickly. Great fuel mileage but the sound of the diesel is still there (though the smell isn't). And they said the handling was numb. You could squirt nicely between corners, but really wasn't any fun in the corners.