Small, fast, and cheap?

[Raghavan]

the second to last civic is really nice.

Yeah...it's riced nicely.

i wouldn't call it rice.

[SargeMonkey]

I found a corvair for 2.5k and its local, within 200 miles, and it may not be fast but it looks nice and I've always like those things. To bad the mileage would be kinda low, but as seing the truck I may drive for a while gets 11 city and 11.5 highway it would cost me a fortune to drive it, it has to be warmed up for about 10 minuets or it stalls, well I think it cost us last year when we drove it very little 1.5k in gas, and thats 83, with some of that octane boosting stuff every once in a while.

[Run Away]

All of those cars would have to be modified to be as fast as a MX-6 (or Probe GT) or already are modified and therefore won't be as reliable as a stock car or as cheap to fix. And, your car is rated 22/27, almost the exact same as a MX-6 LS.

Well I don't see how putting a STOCK integra engine into a STOCK civic will make it any less reliable.
If anything, it'll be more reliable because the engine has less of a load to haul.

Yes they had to be modified, but in the end they are faster, get better mileage and cost about the same.

I know what my car is rated at, but I'm getting (much) better than that. V6s typically get worse mileage that 4 bangers. Why the hell is my car even in this discussion?    

[SargeMonkey]

Why would it need to cost 1035? I don't pay sales taxes.... Oregon.....

I don't know how it got in there, wana trade it for a 79 civic? I'll ship it UPS in one of those huge flat rate crates.

[TBR]

All of those cars would have to be modified to be as fast as a MX-6 (or Probe GT) or already are modified and therefore won't be as reliable as a stock car or as cheap to fix. And, your car is rated 22/27, almost the exact same as a MX-6 LS.

Well I don't see how putting a STOCK integra engine into a STOCK civic will make it any less reliable.
If anything, it'll be more reliable because the engine has less of a load to haul.

Yes they had to be modified, but in the end they are faster, get better mileage and cost about the same.

I know what my car is rated at, but I'm getting (much) better than that. V6s typically get worse mileage that 4 bangers. Why the hell is my car even in this discussion?  

Because you said the MX-6 gets bad gas mileage yet it is rated the same as your car is. And, what makes you think the MX-6 won't get better mileage than its rating? It is a very small displacement V6 and would be taxed less in daily driving than your car's engine is. And putting a stock engine in a different car would make me weary unless it was professionally done.

[Run Away]

Why would it need to cost 1035? I don't pay sales taxes.... Oregon.....

I don't know how it got in there, wana trade it for a 79 civic? I'll ship it UPS in one of those huge flat rate crates.

What are you talking about?

[Run Away]

Because you said the MX-6 gets bad gas mileage yet it is rated the same as your car is. And, what makes you think the MX-6 won't get better mileage than its rating? It is a very small displacement V6 and would be taxed less in daily driving than your car's engine is.

Yes, the MX6 does get bad gas mileage if it gets 21 city 26 highway.
My car does NOT get bad gas mileage as it gets 26 city 30+ highway.

Either way, lame way to try to put down my own personal car for one, and second of all the 1.8L Integra motor in a Civic would get much better mileage than an MX6 so bringing my car into this still doesn't prove in any way that an MX6 would be abetter choice.

And putting a stock engine in a different car would make me weary unless it was professionally done.

It's evident that you havn't worked on car before.

[Raghavan]

Why would it need to cost 1035? I don't pay sales taxes.... Oregon.....

I don't know how it got in there, wana trade it for a 79 civic? I'll ship it UPS in one of those huge flat rate crates.

What are you talking about?

he wants to tradey ou cars.

[Run Away]

Why would it need to cost 1035? I don't pay sales taxes.... Oregon.....

I don't know how it got in there, wana trade it for a 79 civic? I'll ship it UPS in one of those huge flat rate crates.

What are you talking about?

he wants to tradey ou cars.

Not that, he edited his post. Before it said "Why would it need to cost 1035? I don't pay sales taxes.... Oregon....."

I don't know what he's talking about costing $1035

[giant_mtb]

the second to last civic is really nice.

Yeah...it's riced nicely.

i wouldn't call it rice.

That's what I mean.  It's a rice car, but he did a nice job.

[TBR]

Because you said the MX-6 gets bad gas mileage yet it is rated the same as your car is. And, what makes you think the MX-6 won't get better mileage than its rating? It is a very small displacement V6 and would be taxed less in daily driving than your car's engine is.

Yes, the MX6 does get bad gas mileage if it gets 21 city 26 highway.
My car does NOT get bad gas mileage as it gets 26 city 30+ highway.

Either way, lame way to try to put down my own personal car for one, and second of all the 1.8L Integra motor in a Civic would get much better mileage than an MX6 so bringing my car into this still doesn't prove in any way that an MX6 would be abetter choice.

And putting a stock engine in a different car would make me weary unless it was professionally done.

It's evident that you havn't worked on car before.

There is nothing lame about bringing your car up when you're being a hypocrit. I never put down your car, but you put down the MX-6 despite the fact that it has almost the exact same rating as your car does.

And, I fail to see how wanting to know for sure that an engine swap was done the right way means I haven't worked on cars. Granted, I haven't, but I wouldn't hesitate to do an engine swap myself with a little help, I just wouldn't trust someone that I don't know who hasn't had much, if any, experience to have done the job right.

[Run Away]

There is nothing lame about bringing your car up when you're being a hypocrit. I never put down your car, but you put down the MX-6 despite the fact that it has almost the exact same rating as your car does.

And, I fail to see how wanting to know for sure that an engine swap was done the right way means I haven't worked on cars. Granted, I haven't, but I wouldn't hesitate to do an engine swap myself with a little help, I just wouldn't trust someone that I don't know who hasn't had much, if any, experience to have done the job right.

Yes I put down the MX6 because from the specs we know, it gets worse gas mileage than the options I suggested. The more mileage = the better so therefore the Civic/CRX suggestion has the upper hand over the MX6.
He's not considering a BA4 so let's drop it, okay?

I'd like for you to tell me how an engine swap would be done the "wrong way". If one engine gets pulled, and another gets dropped right back in it's place without any modification I don't see how that would cause any problems. If there were any problems, they would become apparent as soon as you looked under the hood or took it for a drive.
Again, you're assuming most engine swaps are done by people who don't know what you're doing, and I don't see where you're getting that idea from.

[TBR]

You could get this MX-6 LS 5-spd for under $2k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda-MX-6-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Or this low miles, modified example for under $3k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-MAZDA-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[TBR]

There is nothing lame about bringing your car up when you're being a hypocrit. I never put down your car, but you put down the MX-6 despite the fact that it has almost the exact same rating as your car does.

And, I fail to see how wanting to know for sure that an engine swap was done the right way means I haven't worked on cars. Granted, I haven't, but I wouldn't hesitate to do an engine swap myself with a little help, I just wouldn't trust someone that I don't know who hasn't had much, if any, experience to have done the job right.

Yes I put down the MX6 because from the specs we know, it gets worse gas mileage than the options I suggested. The more mileage = the better so therefore the Civic/CRX suggestion has the upper hand over the MX6.
He's not considering a BA4 so let's drop it, okay?

I'd like for you to tell me how an engine swap would be done the "wrong way". If one engine gets pulled, and another gets dropped right back in it's place without any modification I don't see how that would cause any problems. If there were any problems, they would become apparent as soon as you looked under the hood or took it for a drive.
Again, you're assuming most engine swaps are done by people who don't know what you're doing, and I don't see where you're getting that idea from.

I am assuming most engine swaps involving 15 year old Civics are done by people that don't know what they are doing, that isn't exactly an unreasonable conclusion. There are lots of things that could be done wrong, bolts could be torqued too much or too little, electrical wires could be placed too close to the engine or to the fan, the same with coolant lines, and on and on.

Edit- also, he might be considering a BA4 (I assume that is the Prelude) for all we know, the simple fact is that according to the numbers you have for the MX-6 and Prelude if the MX-6's gas mileage can be considered to be bad than the same can be said of the Prelude. Besides the fact that 25 mpg (a realistic real world combined figure) is still very good gas mileage compared to his truck.

[Run Away]

You could get this MX-6 LS 5-spd for under $2k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda-MX-6-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Or this low miles, modified example for under $3k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-MAZDA-...1QQcmdZViewItem

It calls the first one a "vintage sports car" .  
Raza should send him an email.

[Run Away]

I am assuming most engine swaps involving 15 year old Civics are done by people that don't know what they are doing, that isn't exactly an unreasonable conclusion. There are lots of things that could be done wrong, bolts could be torqued too much or too little, electrical wires could be placed too close to the engine or to the fan, the same with coolant lines, and on and on.

And if it was done by a shop it's automatically a good job?
I'd say if a person did an engine swap for their own personal car they would do a better job than a shop since it's their own car.
Again, looking under the hood closely or taking it for a drive would give you a good idea if everything was wired up correctly.
Engine swaps are not hard procedures them selves, undo all the bolts and connectors, pull engine then do the reverse.
From pulling two engines, I can't see how it would be easy to mess up. The only place I could see things going wrong is not knowing where to plug back in certain vacuum lines or electrical conections.
If everything isn't hooked up properly, the car won't run right or the check engine light will be on.

[TBR]

I would trust a shop a lot more than I would trust a private individual. Someone might be more careful with their private car but that doesn't help if they don't have the knowledge necessary to do a good job.  

[Run Away]

Edit- also, he might be considering a BA4 (I assume that is the Prelude) for all we know, the simple fact is that according to the numbers you have for the MX-6 and Prelude if the MX-6's gas mileage can be considered to be bad than the same can be said of the Prelude. Besides the fact that 25 mpg (a realistic real world combined figure) is still very good gas mileage compared to his truck.

He's not considering a 3rd gen, and I would not recommend it to him if he's looking for cheap speed.
It's not fast.

[TBR]

Has he said that? I don't think so.

[Tom]

You could get this MX-6 LS 5-spd for under $2k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda-MX-6-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Or this low miles, modified example for under $3k:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-MAZDA-...1QQcmdZViewItem

It calls the first one a "vintage sports car" .  

I noticed that    And he says the reserve is at 1k when it has not been reached yet at almost 2k.

[Run Away]

I would trust a shop a lot more than I would trust a private individual. Someone might be more careful with their private car but that doesn't help if they don't have the knowledge necessary to do a good job.

Well I'm always hearing horror stories on the many forums I'm on of shops returning cars with engine swaps done very shittily, and similarily people posting things like "HELP, JUST SWAPPED AND CAR IDLES AT 4,000 RPM" but the latter are almost always resolved within a week with the help of other forum members.
When people have issues with shops, they get pissed, have a bunch of yelling sessions with the shop who eventually after for too much is spent get the car running properly.

I'd trust myself/anyone who is like me over a local garage.

[Run Away]

Has he said that? I don't think so.

Well, he said he's looking for fast, small and cheap cars.
3g Ludes are not all that small
3g Ludes run high 8s 0-60 times (slow)
3g Ludes cost about $2000 for a 90/91 with reasonable miles

It doesn't look like it fits the criteria to me.

[TBR]

But you don't know that someone is like you when your buying on ebay? You don't know if they have the right tools or the right knowledge, all you know is that the car has "so and so" engine in it.

As far as the gas mileage fiasco goes, my problem is that you basically say a car gets horrible gas mileage, an accusation you based only on epa ratings, when your car, which you have commented gets good gas mileage, has the same ratings. That is my problem, there is no reason the MX-6 can't get over its ratings if the Prelude can, though I still say that 25 mpg is good fuel economy.

[mazda6er]

Since everyone's posting links, I'll post some too. Here you go -> Cougars

Some aren't within your price range, but I just wanted to get the whole group in one link.

[TBR]

Has he said that? I don't think so.

Well, he said he's looking for fast, small and cheap cars.
3g Ludes are not all that small
3g Ludes run high 8s 0-60 times (slow)
3g Ludes cost about $2000 for a 90/91 with reasonable miles

It doesn't look like it fits the criteria to me.

His budget is $5000, in theory you should have no problem finding a good condition Prelude at that price (though in my research most Preludes in decent shape have been modified poorly) and you don't know what his standards are as far as size and speed are concerned. He might consider the Prelude to be a quite small car (many do) and to be plenty fast enough. I personally like the 3g Prelude a lot, but they are too expensive for what they are imho.

[TBR]

I believe the Cougar is pretty much just an updated, Mercurized version of the MX-6 and Probe GT, so there is really no reason to get one over those two cars imho.

[Fire It Up]

I believe the Cougar is pretty much just an updated, Mercurized version of the MX-6 and Probe GT, so there is really no reason to get one over those two cars imho.

And its uglier.

Ben, when you first did an engine swap, did you have much experience with messing around in cars?

[Run Away]

But you don't know that someone is like you when your buying on ebay? You don't know if they have the right tools or the right knowledge, all you know is that the car has "so and so" engine in it.

As far as the gas mileage fiasco goes, my problem is that you basically say a car gets horrible gas mileage, an accusation you based only on epa ratings, when your car, which you have commented gets good gas mileage, has the same ratings. That is my problem, there is no reason the MX-6 can't get over its ratings if the Prelude can, though I still say that 25 mpg is good fuel economy.

I wouldn't buy from eBay, and if I did I'd inspect the car personally first. Tools? You need a socket set, maybe some wrenches for the tighter areas. Vice grips or pliers might help too, along with a torque wrench.


You're right, there is no reason it can't get better than listed mileage, but we have no proof that it does. We DO have proof that the Prelude does.
25mpg is okay, 28-29mpg is better (Civic/CRX)

[Run Away]

His budget is $5000, in theory you should have no problem finding a good condition Prelude at that price (though in my research most Preludes in decent shape have been modified poorly) and you don't know what his standards are as far as size and speed are concerned. He might consider the Prelude to be a quite small car (many do) and to be plenty fast enough. I personally like the 3g Prelude a lot, but they are too expensive for what they are imho.

I guess what I'm saying is that he could do better.

[Run Away]

I believe the Cougar is pretty much just an updated, Mercurized version of the MX-6 and Probe GT, so there is really no reason to get one over those two cars imho.

And its uglier.

Ben, when you first did an engine swap, did you have much experience with messing around in cars?

I actually quite like the way Cougars look, with the bubble headlights and tailights.

I only pulled 2 engines, I havn't yet re-installed one. But removal is very easy, you just need time and a breaker bar. You just start unscrewing every bolt in sight until you can't see anything else holding the engine in. If I were to remove an engine from a car planing to put an engine back in I'd be a it more carefull and label all connectors and put all bolts in organized sandwich bags. A digital camera is very usefull too, take tons of pictures for reference.