Does driving stickshift really make you a better driver?

[Rupert]

Shifting isn't any more unconscious for me than turning a corner or slowing down for a stop sign.

Eh--hopefully you're paying attention most of the time, but haven't you ever (usually on a long drive) thought to yourself, "damn, I can't remember a single fucking thing that happened in the last 15 minutes?" That's why we put so much effort into training new drivers (or should). Sometimes you just drive on instinct. It's unavoidable. Take any defensive driving course and they'll tell you exactly that. Hopefully you've developed good habits so that lapse in focused concentration doesn't cause any problems.

I get as much enjoyment out of driving stick as I do lowering my windows, or driving along a really pretty road, or listening to a great CD, or hitting a corner just right, etc...It's just another piece of the puzzle. I don't agree with Chris that you don't think about/notice shifting, at least not any more than you don't think about/notice anything else.

[Raza]

Shifting isn't any more unconscious for me than turning a corner or slowing down for a stop sign.

Eh--hopefully you're paying attention most of the time, but haven't you ever (usually on a long drive) thought to yourself, "damn, I can't remember a single fucking thing that happened in the last 15 minutes?" That's why we put so much effort into training new drivers (or should). Sometimes you just drive on instinct. It's unavoidable. Take any defensive driving course and they'll tell you exactly that. Hopefully you've developed good habits so that lapse in focused concentration doesn't cause any problems.

I get as much enjoyment out of driving stick as I do lowering my windows, or driving along a really pretty road, or listening to a great CD, or hitting a corner just right, etc...It's just another piece of the puzzle. I don't agree with Chris that you don't think about/notice shifting, at least not any more than you don't think about/notice anything else.

I admit those times do occur, but every time one does, I try to make sure it never happens again. 

[Cookie Monster]

Shifting isn't any more unconscious for me than turning a corner or slowing down for a stop sign.

Eh--hopefully you're paying attention most of the time, but haven't you ever (usually on a long drive) thought to yourself, "damn, I can't remember a single fucking thing that happened in the last 15 minutes?" That's why we put so much effort into training new drivers (or should). Sometimes you just drive on instinct. It's unavoidable. Take any defensive driving course and they'll tell you exactly that. Hopefully you've developed good habits so that lapse in focused concentration doesn't cause any problems.

I get as much enjoyment out of driving stick as I do lowering my windows, or driving along a really pretty road, or listening to a great CD, or hitting a corner just right, etc...It's just another piece of the puzzle. I don't agree with Chris that you don't think about/notice shifting, at least not any more than you don't think about/notice anything else.

That's actually never happened to me before... maybe it's because I don't drive every single day so I never really get bored enough to stop paying attention.

[Tave]

Maybe it's because you don't have a car and really haven't driven much at all.

[Cookie Monster]

Maybe it's because you don't have a car and really haven't driven much at all.

That's kind of what I just said...?

[2o6]

I want to learn.....

[saxonyron]

Driving a stick absolutely makes you a better driver.  It forces you  to be tuned in to - on some level - the car's speed, engine speed, engine torque, etc. etc.  I know it doesn't make or break the experience, but it sure adds a whole new level of involvement and enjoyment to driving.  How can elimiinating such a key aspect of driving make the driver better? 

[Tave]

Uh-oh. Prepare to be Christafied.

[saxonyron]

I can't say I really agree, sporty.

It's probably true that stick shift drivers are on average a bit more aggressive than the driving population as a whole.  But as a flip to that, I think that people who have taken the trouble to learn to drive stick are generally more interested in driving than the general population, and put more trouble into improving and maintaining their driving skills.  I also think that driving a stick forces the driver to be more engaged in his driving.  One of the bad trends on the roads are cars that do too much for the driver, and allow the driver to focus too much on things other than driving.  An engaged driver is usually a better driver than the person who is 'multitasking' while driving, and stick shifts make those distractions less possible.

+1

I agree 100%.  The more isolated and uninvolved the driver, the more the driver will tend to be less aware of their speed and other factors, and the more likely they'll do something stupid stemming from being unaware.  I'm talking in general day to day driving, not pitting one against another in some sort of race. 

[saxonyron]

Uh-oh. Prepare to be Christafied.

  I know - I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm sure I just tossed Chris a pitch that he'll hit out of the park.  But as much as I respect him for his automotive knowledge and experience, I've never quite understood his disdain for manual tranny fans. 

[sportyaccordy]

Never knew Chris hated manual drivers.

In any case I just don't know that driving a manual car makes one a better driver. I am probably a better driver in an auto car because I'm not looking to wring out the extra performance available from a manual. Plus with more luxurious cars they have those live MPG gauges, and those REALLY keep my foot light.

99% of the time driving is not hard. In that 1% of the time, chances are being more aware through the zen of a manual transmission won't help much anyways. Most people go through their driving experiences w/o being at fault, or even involved in an accident.... even with America's abysmal driving education system. I don't think it's necessary.

[BimmerM3]

Driving a stick absolutely makes you a better driver.  It forces you  to be tuned in to - on some level - the car's speed, engine speed, engine torque, etc. etc.  I know it doesn't make or break the experience, but it sure adds a whole new level of involvement and enjoyment to driving.  How can elimiinating such a key aspect of driving make the driver better?  

Like others in this thread have said, it's not driving a manual that makes a person a better driver. It's that people who are more interested in driving are more likely to choose manual transmission cars. I've been in cars with people who were totally unenthusiastic about driving, but drove a stick shift because that's the car that their parents gave them. They weren't very particularly good drivers simply because they didn't really care.

You also really have to define what it means to be a better driver. Driving record? Safety? Obeying every little rule of the road? Track times? I've had three speeding tickets, received two written warnings for speeding, been the at fault driver in an accident (I only had my license for 6 months, it was raining, and I barely touched the other guy, but since he was a pizza guy on the clock we had to get a police report. I only got a warning), but I'd put money down that currently I am a better defensive driver than most of my friends who have squeaky clean driving records. Why? Because I'm am now an attentive driver who is constantly trying to anticipate what the cars around him are doing. I know what it's like to go beyond the limits of what a car is supposed to do. I've been on skid pads and through emergency lane change exercises. I've studied the handling dynamics of cars and how weight shifts from tire to tire depending on what you're doing and how to regain control when a car loses traction.

Sorry for that little rant, but I get angry when people who's accident avoidance skills are limited to stomping on the brakes, screaming, closing their eyes, and praying, yet have a clean driving record because they never break the speed limit think that I'm a bad driver. These are the kind of people who get hit by someone who changes lanes into them and say "well they just came out of nowhere!" No they didn't; they came from the lane next to you. Sure, they maybe didn't check their blind spot, but if you hadn't been cruising in their blind spot to begin with you wouldn't have been hit.

[/rant]

[Raza]

  I know - I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm sure I just tossed Chris a pitch that he'll hit out of the park.  But as much as I respect him for his automotive knowledge and experience, I've never quite understood his disdain for manual tranny fans. 

I never took it that way.  As I understand it, he just doesn't understand people who feel the need to have a stickshift to be involved with the car.  I think he figures if shifting is all there is to driving to you, you're missing the point.

For the most part, I agree with that sentiment, but I also do prefer to drive stick. 

[Raza]

Never knew Chris hated manual drivers.

In any case I just don't know that driving a manual car makes one a better driver. I am probably a better driver in an auto car because I'm not looking to wring out the extra performance available from a manual. Plus with more luxurious cars they have those live MPG gauges, and those REALLY keep my foot light.

99% of the time driving is not hard. In that 1% of the time, chances are being more aware through the zen of a manual transmission won't help much anyways. Most people go through their driving experiences w/o being at fault, or even involved in an accident.... even with America's abysmal driving education system. I don't think it's necessary.

I think your environment is really shaping the way you see driving.  If I lived in the city and had nothing but 90 degree turns and stop and go traffic to look forward to, then maybe I'd share your sentiment.  But 99% of driving takes 100% concentration.  If it doesn't, you're heading for disaster. 

[ifcar]

I never took it that way.  As I understand it, he just doesn't understand people who feel the need to have a stickshift to be involved with the car.  I think he figures if shifting is all there is to driving to you, you're missing the point.

For the most part, I agree with that sentiment, but I also do prefer to drive stick. 

ChrisV has owned every car ever built and found full merit to each one. So he won't criticize any car or type of car.

[saxonyron]

I never took it that way.  As I understand it, he just doesn't understand people who feel the need to have a stickshift to be involved with the car.  I think he figures if shifting is all there is to driving to you, you're missing the point.

For the most part, I agree with that sentiment, but I also do prefer to drive stick. 

I agree - that was a bit of hyperbole on my part.  I definitely prefer stick also.  Even after I've been driving a stick every day for years, which was the case, I still found that well-placed shifts were very enjoyable.  I would often find myself subconsciously working at nailing the perfect heel-toe downshift.  It really isn't easy to execute them smoothly everytime with no driveline snatch, so a perfect shift is very satisfying.  If that makes me retarded in Chris's eyes, so be it! 

[Raza]

I don't know if that specifically makes you look retarded...

[saxonyron]

I don't know if that specifically makes you look retarded...

 

[JWC]

If driving a manual transmission makes you a better driver, then our grandparents were better drivers than we are now. 

You should be in "tune" with your car whether it is an auto or a manual.  There should be no difference.  I believe what you guys are feeling it is the perception that you are a better driver because you are shifting. 

Even when I'm driving the Volvo or the Focus, both autos, I'm listening/feeling the shift points, keeping an ear out for unusual noises, etc. 

If you guys are just jumping in a car with an automatic and driving because you think the car is going to do everything for you, you probably need to get out of the stick shift and drive more automatics until you break the habit of being a steering wheel holder.   

I don't know how old ChrisV is, but it could be an age thing or just our experience.  He is probably like myself.  I grew up during a time when an automatic transmission was an option and a manual was standard (hence the name "standard transmission" when referring to manual transmissions).   Of the first four cars I owned, all by the age of 19, only one was an automatic.   

After years of driving standard transmissions, it does become such a second nature, just like walking.  If it is more than that, you are probably spending too much time paying attention to shifting and not enough time paying attention to the actual job of driving.

[FoMoJo]

It would be interesting for some the newer drivers to drive the vehicles their grandparents drove.  The grandparents may not have been better drivers but I'm pretty sure they were more attentive drivers.  A 5,000 pound behemoth with skinny bias-ply tires and three-on-the-tree was not always a joy; especially after it was a couple years old and had loosened up a bit.

[Tave]

After years of driving standard transmissions, it does become such a second nature, just like walking.

And negotiating a turn, braking, or using the gas pedal doesn't?

If it is more than that, you are probably spending too much time paying attention to shifting and not enough time paying attention to the actual job of driving.

"Driving" isn't some single, objective quantity--it's an amalgam of various responsibilities and actions: observing surroundings, anticipation, decision making, sensory input, adjustment, etc...

Shifting isn't any more unconscious than any other single element, IMO.

[JWC]

And negotiating a turn, braking, or using the gas pedal doesn't?

"Driving" isn't some single, objective quantity--it's an amalgam of various responsibilities and actions: observing surroundings, anticipation, decision making, sensory input, adjustment, etc...

Shifting isn't any more unconscious than any other single element, IMO.

The problem with this thread is that people are saying that because they drive a stick shift, they are better drivers.

My point is, shifting manually is nothing more than turning, braking, or whatever...or should be.  If you are paying MORE attention because you are driving a stick shift, you are paying too much attention to the shifting and not enough to your surroundings while you drive.

The recurring point of many here is that you are a more "attentive" driver with a stick shift.  The question is what are you being more attentive of....to me it sounds like they are more attentive of shifting, than driving.

[Tave]

I can agree with that.

Chris has talked often about the enjoyment of driving as it relates to manual transmissions, and I guess I was getting more towards that (and I have plenty of fun with autos).

[Raza]

I still manually shift autos when I drive them, though.

[Tave]

Even in autos without a manumatic device?

[Raza]

Even in autos without a manumatic device?

I haven't driven an automatic without a manual shift function in quite some time.

Actually, full disclosure, I don't manually shift my dad's Lexus.  The computer overrides you all the time, doesn't want you to downshift, and will upshift before you want to, and it won't reflect the gearchange on the display.  It's a sneaky fucker, and there are too many gears. 

[TBR]

Even in autos without a manumatic device?

The ones without a manumatic option are the ones that need it the most. Automatic transmissions have come a long way in the past 10 years or so.

[Vinsanity]

I'm of the belief that if someone is a bad driver in an automatic, they'll be equally bad with a manual.

As far as driving enjoyment is concerned, it really depends on the car. I don't see myself enjoying a stickshift Cadillac any more than an automatic, but a torque converter automatic on an S2000 would suck balls compared to a manual or even a theoretical dual-clutch trans.

[Tave]

The ones without a manumatic option are the ones that need it the most. Automatic transmissions have come a long way in the past 10 years or so.

Huh?

Absent some gnarly grades, I don't think I've ever made a habit of shifting an automatic.

[Vinsanity]

Huh?

Absent some gnarly grades, I don't think I've ever made a habit of shifting an automatic.

I like to downshift for the engine braking effect when coming to a red light. The service manager at the dealership was impressed at how long I was able to make my brake pads last