headlight bulbs

[giant_mtb]

Well, the average halogen puts out around 1200-1700 lumens. An OE xenon arc HID in the 4000k range puts out over 3000 lumens. So it's quite a bit brighter. Hence why it bugs me when people slap them in stock reflectors. But as VTEC aptly pointed out, a high quality retrofit is no worse for other drivers than an OEM system, and will improve your visibility immensely. The problem is that most ppl aren't willing to dish out the big bucks for that.

Ahh, gotcha.  If I were to ever put HID bulbs in my car, it'd just be for high beams, that's for sure.

[S204STi]

I would love to have 'em for low beams, myself. Just buying the STI lamps would set me back $2000 or so.

Sorry, my hubris causes people to miss my real stance with HID retrofits, which is that they are fine as long as they are done well.  Just putting HID bulbs in a lamp designed for halogen bulbs is however a disaster, and it always bugs me to no end, especially when passing one in bad weather or when one is behind me in traffic.

[giant_mtb]

That's why I'd only use 'em on high beams, assuming the beam ended up staying correct and the HID bulb was in fact beneficial. 

[hounddog]

I drive long distances late at night.  

I really do not care if they bother someone else, well I do but not alot, because I have had one too many close calls with kids & bikes, deer, etc.  OEM headlights are now about four years old, and headlights dim about 20-30% over their lifetime.  Mine are probably10% dimmer than new.

I do not tailgate, I do not sit directly behind other drivers and my headlights are lower than most other SUVs because of the design of the vehicle.  I also am willing to adjust my lights down slightly to reduce glare if I find a set that provide a good trade off.  

If wanting to be a safer driver, at least from my end, makes me an asshole then so be it.  I can have brighter lights than OEM and still have them be less offensive than the lights on my wifes stock X5.  So, please, stop whining.

In retrospect, I was a bit too quick to so blithely dismiss this issue.

I have spent a considerable amount of time paying attention to others reactions to the old stock bulbs in the truck now, and I have noticed they are set a tad high from the factory.  When I pull up behind someone I notice they are pointed slightly above the trunklid on almost every passenger car (my headlights are actually at or below that line so they are pointed slightly up), and well above the bumper on SUVs and pickups.

The drivers who seem to be most effected are those in 'cute utes' and it seems the lights now point directly in their eyes.  Get my vehicle slightly above theirs on the road and I immediately get brighted by them.  I had paid zero attention to this in the past, but it is clearly an issue.

I also noticed that with a full tank of gas they point directly at the bottom half of stop signs, which are supposed to be about six feet in Michigan.  So, I am going to spend tonight moving them down bit by bit and see how they look.  Tomorrow when I pick up my rotors I will try a set of those Xtravisions and see how I like them.  Everything I have read points to those being the best for a vehicle like mine.

I really appreciate the opinions, fellas.

[Rupert]

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

[S204STi]

In retrospect, I was a bit too quick to so blithely dismiss this issue.

I have spent a considerable amount of time paying attention to others reactions to the old stock bulbs in the truck now, and I have noticed they are set a tad high from the factory.  When I pull up behind someone I notice they are pointed slightly above the trunklid on almost every passenger car (my headlights are actually at or below that line so they are pointed slightly up), and well above the bumper on SUVs and pickups.

The drivers who seem to be most effected are those in 'cute utes' and it seems the lights now point directly in their eyes.  Get my vehicle slightly above theirs on the road and I immediately get brighted by them.  I had paid zero attention to this in the past, but it is clearly an issue.

I also noticed that with a full tank of gas they point directly at the bottom half of stop signs, which are supposed to be about six feet in Michigan.  So, I am going to spend tonight moving them down bit by bit and see how they look.  Tomorrow when I pick up my rotors I will try a set of those Xtravisions and see how I like them.  Everything I have read points to those being the best for a vehicle like mine.

I really appreciate the opinions, fellas.

Trucks/SUVs just have that issue inherently.  The best thing IMO is to just set them to spec, ( see Rupert's link ) and just leave it at that.

[hounddog]

Good thing I am not you then.     They are spec now, and people seem unhappy with them so I intend to fix that.  A little.

Bought the lights, was a little too "tired" after the wine to go out and work on the lights.  Figured it was better to stay inside and not try to test them the re-aim on the road.  

A good project for tonight.

[Rupert]

Spec is spec for good reason.

[The Pirate]

Spec is spec for good reason.

And spec for a Chevy Silverado puts the (surprisingly bright) lights directly into my rear view mirror.  Now, it is what it is, and I have no foaming rage for the Silverado driver, but if he wants to lower the aim of the lights a little, it's something I like.

Spec may be spec, but there is usually room for improvement.  Ever get a Shimano rear derailleur to shift with a Campy 9-speed drivetrain?  Far from spec, but it can be done with good results.

[Rupert]

Yeah, but that's basically a tuning issue. Headlights are a critical safety item.

Like, I wouldn't insist on making cantilever levers work with linear-pull brakes.

[giant_mtb]

And spec for a Chevy Silverado puts the (surprisingly bright) lights directly into my rear view mirror.  Now, it is what it is, and I have no foaming rage for the Silverado driver, but if he wants to lower the aim of the lights a little, it's something I like.

Spec may be spec, but there is usually room for improvement.  Ever get a Shimano rear derailleur to shift with a Campy 9-speed drivetrain?  Far from spec, but it can be done with good results.

omgosh da lights are right in my rearview mirror when da truck is 8 feet behind me at a stoplight cuz the truck is taller den my car so it just happenz to be dat way

[Rupert]

No dude, tall-ass trucks with bright-ass headlights suck ass.

[giant_mtb]

I'm aware of this.

[The Pirate]

omgosh da lights are right in my rearview mirror when da truck is 8 feet behind me at a stoplight cuz the truck is taller den my car so it just happenz to be dat way

Read more closely.  From my original post: Now, it is what it is, and I have no foaming rage for the Silverado driver.

Yes, it's annoying.  No, I don't complain nor make effigy pots of Silverado drivers.

[The Pirate]

Yeah, but that's basically a tuning issue. Headlights are a critical safety item.

Like, I wouldn't insist on making cantilever levers work with linear-pull brakes.

I don't see the lack of safety with headlights aimed down a few degrees from stock.  Up is certainly not ideal for other drivers, but down will possibly improve the lighting pattern for other drivers.

[SVT_Power]

No dude, tall-ass trucks with bright-ass headlights suck ass.

The worst? Lifted trucks with PnP HID's. Goddamn.

At least retrofit the bloody thing properly if you wanna switch to HID's.

[Rupert]

I don't see the lack of safety with headlights aimed down a few degrees from stock.  Up is certainly not ideal for other drivers, but down will possibly improve the lighting pattern for other drivers.

The light won't reach as far in front of the truck, and that's bad. Glare-y headlights mostly come from poor design (too much scatter), but aiming any headlight down from where they were designed to be aimed reduces the amount of road that you can see.

For example, there are two vehicles, one with headlights 2 ft off the ground, and the other with headlights 4 ft off the ground. On both cars, the usable light of the low beams reaches 100 ft down the road. If you aim the taller lights down, which might be nice for other drivers, you reduce the usable light. Just a few degrees of angle reduction can easily result in tens of feet of reduced usable light. Do the math (in the example above, 3 degrees of reduced angle means 50 feet shorter usable light!).

[hounddog]

No dude, tall-ass trucks with bright-ass headlights suck ass.

The Durango is not "tall-ass" and the issue with it having "bright-ass" headlights is because the bulbs are an inefficient older design.  To compensate and gain acceptable "brightness" they are aimed literally into the line of sight for people driving smaller suvs and cars.  (which, by the way, is statutorily illegal in Michigan)

By purchasing lights which are "twice as bright" but lowering the setting a couple degrees takes them out of the line of sight of oncoming motorists I lose almost no distance, but gain more detail and 50% more side vision ability.  And, brings my stock headlights into compliance with state law with respect to alignment and gets line of sight improvement for oncoming drivers.

A proper tradeoff.

[hounddog]

The light won't reach as far in front of the truck, and that's bad. Glare-y headlights mostly come from poor design (too much scatter), but aiming any headlight down from where they were designed to be aimed reduces the amount of road that you can see.

I have to ask, then; why does my wifes X5, which has very focused Xenons, give off ridiculous glare?

Answer; because her lights are bright.  Anytime you have headlights which emit large amount of light, purposely aimed in a direction which requires someone to look at them there will be glare.  Until we are able to come up with some type of very advanced FLIR, or other ultra-cool technology, glare will always be present. 

[Laconian]

Our TSX's HID lights have an incredibly well defined cutoff that is often just below the top of the trunklid of passenger cars. A small amount of glare is unavoidable, but drivers are spared from the brunt of the light output -- there is a huge different in luminous flux above and below that line.

[Cookie Monster]

omgosh da lights are right in my rearview mirror when da truck is 8 feet behind me at a stoplight cuz the truck is taller den my car so it just happenz to be dat way

What the heck is wrong with you? It's a legitimate irritation and it's not like Pirate was even mad or anything, just a statement. 

It's pretty terrible in the Miata but at least I can just not look at the rearview mirror and be OK with it. Everyone else I know puts their side mirrors in so close that the truck's headlights behind them just shines into their faces which is way worse.

[giant_mtb]

I'm just an asshole.

[hounddog]

No, giant, you are one of the few here who is not an asshole.

And, if you are bothered in your tiny car by the lights behind you; buy a bigger car. 

[giant_mtb]

I'm not bothered by it.  Like Pirate said, it is what it is (I wasn't directing my sarcastic, asshole comment directly at him).  The beauty of the mirror-flip!

[Rupert]

The Durango is not "tall-ass" and the issue with it having "bright-ass" headlights is because the bulbs are an inefficient older design.  To compensate and gain acceptable "brightness" they are aimed literally into the line of sight for people driving smaller suvs and cars.  (which, by the way, is statutorily illegal in Michigan)

By purchasing lights which are "twice as bright" but lowering the setting a couple degrees takes them out of the line of sight of oncoming motorists I lose almost no distance, but gain more detail and 50% more side vision ability.  And, brings my stock headlights into compliance with state law with respect to alignment and gets line of sight improvement for oncoming drivers.

A proper tradeoff.

You will never get safe "twice-as-bright" bulbs in there, including the Xtravisions, or whatever high-output bulb you have, because, if you increase wattage very much, you run the risk of melting wires, the reflector, the lens, etc. And you must mean the reflector is an inefficient older design, which is exactly what I said before. Poor design = lots of glare. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to fix poor design beyond adding auxiliary lights or replacing the whole headlight assembly (and good luck with almost any modern vehicle).

Remember, not all headlights (reflectors, lenses, etc.) are equal. Some focus the light and have a sharp cutoff, others don't do either. If your headlights are aimed to spec, as shown in the aiming link I posted, then they are not "aimed literally into the line of sight for people driving smaller suvs and cars." However, they are (or may be; I haven't seen them) a crappy design that scatters a lot of light upwards. You are not going to fix this by pointing them down; just reduce the extent of your usable light.

I would think that you would know this, but if your lights are stock and aimed to Dodge spec, then they comply with the law. Dodge could not manufacture and sell thousands of vehicles that don't comply with a law like that.

[Rupert]

I have to ask, then; why does my wifes X5, which has very focused Xenons, give off ridiculous glare?

Answer; because her lights are bright.  Anytime you have headlights which emit large amount of light, purposely aimed in a direction which requires someone to look at them there will be glare.  Until we are able to come up with some type of very advanced FLIR, or other ultra-cool technology, glare will always be present. 

Answer; because her lights are bright and they aren't as focused as you think. Also, they're tall.

[SVT_Power]

I'm not bothered by it.  Like Pirate said, it is what it is (I wasn't directing my sarcastic, asshole comment directly at him).  The beauty of the mirror-flip!

Hopefully you didn't pony up all that money for the german luxo-mobile and still got the flippy thing for the mirror. But then again, the germans do seem to want so much goddamn $$$$$$$ for everything...

[SVT_Power]

And if you want ridiculous amount of light with good cutoff, hook up a HID projector set up to 55W. Yes 55W. None of that wimpy 35W stuff 

Just a side comment, I don't particularly recommend it if you want to be courteous to other drivers at night. I know a guy who runs that set up, it's ridiculous. It's not aimed wrong or anything, it's just a ridiculous amount of light.

[Rupert]

A ridiculous amount of crappy light.

[giant_mtb]

Hopefully you didn't pony up all that money for the german luxo-mobile and still got the flippy thing for the mirror. But then again, the germans do seem to want so much goddamn $$$$$$$ for everything...

Ya.  The auto-dimming mirror was part of the $400M technology package.