ZL1 Tests are coming in.

[68_427]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2012_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_vs_2012_ford_mustang_boss_302_laguna_seca/

The last piece of the puzzle is driver confidence. The Camaro is easy to drive and constantly makes the driver feel like Superman. The Mustang is rewarding to drive, but it's constant work. After a few laps, a Mustang pilot is drenched with sweat and breathing hard. Even a pro driver like Randy appreciates the value of consistency. Lap data shows a tendency to brake later, and a few instances of "test-stabs" in braking zones. The same holds true to committing to high-speed sweepers. More speed can be carried in with the Camaro, with the most obvious instance in Turn 2 with a constant radius held at speed in the Camaro while the Mustang required a brush of the brakes. It was Turn 3 leading on to the back straight that would be the downfall of the Boss in a daylong race.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120117/CARREVIEWS/120119856

What is it like to drive?

Remarkable, for its mix of everyday civility and track capability. On the road or the racetrack, this pony car or muscle car (or whatever we call Camaros and Mustangs these days) almost makes the concept of compromise obsolete.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1203_2012_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_and_2012_chevrolet_corvette_grand_sport/index.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-test-review

[CJ]

Too bad you can't see out of it. I'd still rather have the Mustang. I want to have to work in order for a car to do what I want it to.

[68_427]

I want to have to work in order for a car to do what I want it to.

You're talking like this is some Audi TT.

[565]

Those are disappointing trap speeds.

That said, it seems like the new ZL1 handles extremely confidently and extremely well.

[MexicoCityM3]

As they mention in the article, the true rival for the ZL1 is the Shelby.

In any case, the improvement in pony cars' capabilities in just the last 5 years is mind blowing, the driving experience is now absolutely competitive with euro sports cars.

What will euro brands have in their favor in the future? I don't see the performance capabilities of the next M3/RS4/C63 etc exceeding these pony cars.

Back when the E46 M3 launched in 2001 it was a better performer than any pony car of the day by a big margin. That is far from the case today.

Unfortunately, I think the only thing that euro cars like those will use to differentiate in the future will be luxury and techno-gadgetry. At most equivalent performance, driving experience.

Good days to be an enthusiast.

[GoCougs]

So the, the ZL1 walks the Boss 302 Laguna Seca in all performance measures, and is both far easier to drive and to live with as a daily driver. Does this surprise anyone? The Mustang chassis is old and its live axle an anachronism, and the Boss itself is more targeted toward a more throwback/visceral track experience.

The article states that the ZL1 has redefined a new class of vehicle. Let's be realistic - the bar was set relatively low though - 3 iterations in 6 years and the GT500 advanced relatively little. The Camaro chassis is simply a more advanced and malleable platform and lo and behold Chevy hit it out of the park on its first iteration.

The article is also dour on the upcoming GT500; significantly more power can't mask a live axle and 8-year-old platform - chances that the '13 GT500 is a better handler/braker/driver is low. Its only hope is to be quicker than the ZL1 - and even that is in question IMO as the 5.8L is simply a reworked Modular, which isn't as good a motor as the LSx.

Yeah, I agree, the 1/4-mile times and trap speeds do look a bit low. However, look at the 0-100 times - the ZL1 is ahead by almost a second. The Camaro also has taller gearing than the Mustangs (as much as a full gear). Also, it seems Chevy put profound effort into handling, braking and livability rather than favoring absolute from-the-digs acceleration...

[Submariner]

 

[SVT666]

Impressive.  I'm not surprised it's faster...it better be with 138 more hp.

[FoMoJo]

Apples and oranges .

[68_427]

Impressive.  I'm not surprised it's faster...it better be with 138 more hp.

The telling story here is that it handles every bit as well, if not better than the raciest street Mustang on sale.

[FoMoJo]

The telling story here is that it handles every bit as well, if not better than the raciest street Mustang on sale.

Boost the Mustang and it would, likely, be an entirely differenct story.  Judging by the comparative times, it seems that the Mustang could handle the extra 140 hp better than the Camaro.

[68_427]

Boost the Mustang and it would, likely, be an entirely differenct story.  Judging by the comparative times, it seems that the Mustang could handle the extra 140 hp better than the Camaro.

So put a supercharger on the Mustang, and it would handle better?

[hotrodalex]

The cool thing about the Motor Trend comparo is that both cars seem to be awesome. I wouldn't mind having either in my driveway (though I'd prefer a less obnoxious color scheme on the Mustang)

[FoMoJo]

So put a supercharger on the Mustang, and it would handle better?

Perhaps not but the extra power and equivalent tires would make a significant difference.  As mentioned, the upcoming GT500 is the appropriate comparison to the ZL1.

[SVT666]

I wish Ford had the Magneto shocks.  After reading those articles they seem to be one of the biggest contributors to the handling prowess.

[SVT666]

Perhaps not but the extra power and equivalent tires would make a significant difference.  As mentioned, the upcoming GT500 is the appropriate comparison to the ZL1.

The Laguna Seca tires are barely legal.

[68_427]

Perhaps not but the extra power and equivalent tires would make a significant difference.  As mentioned, the upcoming GT500 is the appropriate comparison to the ZL1.

I know the power between these car is way off, I'm just giving GM credit where it's due.  They made this 4100lbs car handle as well as the best handling Mustang, which over 400lbs less.

[FoMoJo]

I know the power between these car is way off, I'm just giving GM credit where it's due.  They made this 4100lbs car handle as well as the best handling Mustang, which over 400lbs less.

I give GM credit for that as well .  It's nice to see the musclecar wars heating up again.

[FoMoJo]

The Laguna Seca tires are barely legal.

I expect the entire car is barely legal when using the red key.

[hotrodalex]

I wish Ford had the Magneto shocks.  After reading those articles they seem to be one of the biggest contributors to the handling prowess.

Definitely. GM sure outdid itself with those. The fact that they're used by Ferrari is proof enough.

[r0tor]

Definitely. GM sure outdid itself with those. The fact that they're used by Ferrari is proof enough.

They aren't the same other then using the same basic technology.

[68_427]

They aren't the same other then using the same basic technology.

Ferrari licenses them from GM

[GoCougs]

So put a supercharger on the Mustang, and it would handle better?

After reading that article, M/T at least thinks the Camaro is the better handler in every regard, and is also a much better driver WRT ride and steering and braking feel. Also note the weight distribution; again the Camaro leads with 52/48 vs. 55/45. It's not the be-all and end-all, but it is telling how much work GM put into the ZL1. In short, yeah, not sure how adding more power to the Mustang addresses this...

[r0tor]

Ferrari licenses them from GM

It's by Delphi, and the system ferrari uses reacts much much faster then what gm uses

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I know the power between these car is way off, I'm just giving GM credit where it's due.  They made this 4100lbs car handle as well as the best handling Mustang, which over 400lbs less.

[565]

It's by Delphi, and the system ferrari uses reacts much much faster then what gm uses

They are just different generations of the Magneride system, and the ZL1 has the latest 3rd generation which is more advanced than the systems fitted in the Ferrari's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide#cite_note-5

"As opposed to the previous generation's single coil, the third generation brought two smaller coils in each damper. With the single electromagnetic coil, there was a small delay from when the ECU turned off the current to when the damper lost its magnetic field. This was caused by a temporary electric current, or eddy current, in the electromagnet. This phenomenon resulted in a 20ms delay in reaction time of the dampers. BWI eliminated this delay with its dual coil system. The two coils are wound in opposite directions to each other, cancelling out the eddy currents.[6] The dual coil system effectively eliminated the delay, causing a quicker responding suspension system."

Plus Delphi sold the MagneRide system a while back to the Chinese company BWI (Beijing West Industries), along with the rest of Delphi's Chassis development program.  It is actually BWI who have developed all of the new MagneRide systems.

My folks recently bought a used MDX sport that uses the MagneRide system.  It really does control body motions incredibly well.

[MrH]

It's by Delphi, and the system ferrari uses reacts much much faster then what gm uses

Delphi...who used to be a part of GM.  The development of these shocks started tens of years ago, back when it was a part of GM.

Same basic technology though.  How much faster do you think they are?

[hotrodalex]

Delphi...who used to be a part of GM.  The development of these shocks started tens of years ago, back when it was a part of GM.

Same basic technology though.  How much faster do you think they are?

0.040 milliseconds, brah. GM is SOOOOOO behind.

[SVT666]

It's by Delphi, and the system ferrari uses reacts much much faster then what gm uses

Wrong.  The ones on the ZL1 are the fastest reacting yet.

[SVT666]

Gotta give GM credit.  It's an impressive machine.  I'm blown away by those shocks though.  To get such a fat ass car around corners that fast couldn't have been easy.