Porsche 991 GT3 may come with PDK only (Yea!!)

[r0tor]

The RS maybe, but not the standard car.

It you buy a gt3, you better be visiting a race track often.  On the track, a clutch pedal is nothing but an unneeded distraction.

If you want to go competitive racing, then you buy an rs

[565]

But claiming a supercar like a 458 Italia or 911 GT3 would be boring to drive solely because of its transmission is like claiming sex with someone like Meagan Fox would be if you had to wear a condom. You're still fucking Meagan Fox and there are practical considerations that might warrant the condom.

Man, if I got the chance to bang Megan Fox, I'd totally raw dog her.  She's probably teeming with disease, but I'd totally risk it.

[sportyaccordy]

It you buy a gt3, you better be visiting a race track often.  On the track, a clutch pedal is nothing but an unneeded distraction.

If you want to go competitive racing, then you buy an rs

Yep. And if you just want to play the streets, get a regular Carrera with a stickshift and throw on an exhaust or something. Complaining about the GT3's lack of stick is like complaining about a lifted Wrangler's shitty ride. The cars are built to a purpose and their equipment reflects that. Whether or not people agree with that purpose or the people who buy them use them in their capacity is meaningless. But it makes no sense to cry about a car you prob won't buy anyway.

[Cookie Monster]

Sporty, my post was more about me really hoping that the trend of killing off manuals in supercars doesn't trickle its way down into cars like the Miata, Z, RX, etc.

That said I really, really hope the GT2 doesn't suffer the same fate. The GT2 RS is known as the widow maker and always seemed like it was a car that you needed a lot of skill to drive, and to me at least, taking away the manual makes it less of a beast.

[sportyaccordy]

Sporty, my post was more about me really hoping that the trend of killing off manuals in supercars doesn't trickle its way down into cars like the Miata, Z, RX, etc.

That said I really, really hope the GT2 doesn't suffer the same fate. The GT2 RS is known as the widow maker and always seemed like it was a car that you needed a lot of skill to drive, and to me at least, taking away the manual makes it less of a beast.

I guarantee stickshifts will stay in cars like the Miata, Z etc, if for no other reason than cost and image.

And I know the concept of a widowmaker is romantic (in the the enthusiast's sense), but lets be realistic. The GT2 of the 90s is the GT3 or even the Carrera S of today. The GT2 today, uncorked, really is a widowmaker. A dude who drives such a wild beast with nowhere near the skill to reign it in isn't brave, he's an idiot. Its needless risk. So for the people who actually buy these things, delivering the performance in a way that is somewhat manageable just makes sense for everybody.

There are a lot of parallels in the motorcycle world. Nobody needs, and few people can safely ride a 9 second liter bike on the street anywhere close to 10/10ths. And damn near all the high speed tech comes from racing (most fast bikes are pretty much built to race). But people and their egos. It blows my mind seeing dudes with no track experience bitch and moan about technology "getting in the way" of them getting the most out of bikes they can't even ride.

The kind of performance that is available really opens up valid questions about the American licensing system and what is even necessary for the street. Who needs 600 HP and where can you even begin to enjoy/tap into that legally on the road? The whole thing is kind of a joke honestly.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I guarantee stickshifts will stay in cars like the Miata, Z etc, if for no other reason than cost and image.

And I know the concept of a widowmaker is romantic (in the the enthusiast's sense), but lets be realistic. The GT2 of the 90s is the GT3 or even the Carrera S of today. The GT2 today, uncorked, really is a widowmaker. A dude who drives such a wild beast with nowhere near the skill to reign it in isn't brave, he's an idiot. Its needless risk. So for the people who actually buy these things, delivering the performance in a way that is somewhat manageable just makes sense for everybody.

There are a lot of parallels in the motorcycle world. Nobody needs, and few people can safely ride a 9 second liter bike on the street anywhere close to 10/10ths. And damn near all the high speed tech comes from racing (most fast bikes are pretty much built to race). But people and their egos. It blows my mind seeing dudes with no track experience bitch and moan about technology "getting in the way" of them getting the most out of bikes they can't even ride.

To hell with a Liter bike! 95% can't handle a 600cc Race Replica at 10/10!

[Cookie Monster]

I guarantee stickshifts will stay in cars like the Miata, Z etc, if for no other reason than cost and image.

And I know the concept of a widowmaker is romantic (in the the enthusiast's sense), but lets be realistic. The GT2 of the 90s is the GT3 or even the Carrera S of today. The GT2 today, uncorked, really is a widowmaker. A dude who drives such a wild beast with nowhere near the skill to reign it in isn't brave, he's an idiot. Its needless risk. So for the people who actually buy these things, delivering the performance in a way that is somewhat manageable just makes sense for everybody.

There are a lot of parallels in the motorcycle world. Nobody needs, and few people can safely ride a 9 second liter bike on the street anywhere close to 10/10ths. And damn near all the high speed tech comes from racing (most fast bikes are pretty much built to race). But people and their egos. It blows my mind seeing dudes with no track experience bitch and moan about technology "getting in the way" of them getting the most out of bikes they can't even ride.

But you don't see manufacturers of literbikes making them easier to ride.

I would probably never get a GT2 RS, but I still think it's cool to have one as a car that truly needs a lot of skill to drive. I haven't driven any new supercar, but it just seems that Ferraris and Lambos and now Porsches all have so much technology that more or less takes the skill out of driving them (DSG, different levels of traction control, etc), that it's nice to see one that pretty much just puts you out on your own. Sort of a man vs machine type thing.

[Eye of the Tiger]

To hell with a Liter bike! 95% can't handle a 600cc Race Replica at 10/10!

I can't even handle a 500cc "Ninja", or a V-Star 650 at 10/10ths, but I am pretty sure I could handle a GT2 at 11/10ths.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

But you don't see manufacturers of literbikes making them easier to ride.

Kawasaki, BMW and Honda liter bikes all have ABS, Traction Control and Wheelie Control........

[SVT666]

But you don't see manufacturers of literbikes making them easier to ride.

I would probably never get a GT2 RS, but I still think it's cool to have one as a car that truly needs a lot of skill to drive. I haven't driven any new supercar, but it just seems that Ferraris and Lambos and now Porsches all have so much technology that more or less takes the skill out of driving them (DSG, different levels of traction control, etc), that it's nice to see one that pretty much just puts you out on your own. Sort of a man vs machine type thing.

I highly doubt any of those cars require very little skill to drive fast.  I bet they all still require a lot of skill.

[Cookie Monster]

Kawasaki, BMW and Honda liter bikes all have ABS, Traction Control and Wheelie Control........

Oh, nevermind. I knew they had ABS, but not traction and wheelie control.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Oh, nevermind. I knew they had ABS, but not traction and wheelie control.

Yep. They are optional on all the bikes but the "purist" are up in arms....

[565]

Wait does wheelie control just prevent wheelies or does it allow you to perform perfect wheelies (like LC).  Latter would be awesome

[sportyaccordy]

Wait does wheelie control just prevent wheelies or does it allow you to perform perfect wheelies (like LC).  Latter would be awesome

They prevent you from doing wheelies. Think of trying to control a 1000HP 3000lb car out of a corner at WOT. And now you understand how ridiculous some of these dudes sound decrying the infusion of protective tech on literbikes. Even more ridiculous when you consider many of these dudes will never see a track. Its no different for people who insist a 600 HP GT2 should have no driving aids and be handed over to someone w/no high speed driving training. People need to be honest with themselves.

[Submariner]

This thread is getting silly.

What it boils down to is this:

Some people enjoy driving cars with manual transmissions over PDK's, DSG's, etc.  Are the later technically superior if one is looking at these cars purely as achievements of science?  Sure.  Are they better if your absolute and only goal is speed?  Of course - that's why Formula 1 cars use automated boxes.  Are they as entertaining to drive?  It depends on who you are. 

And I'm not sure I buy the "well, if you're buying a GT3 then you're only using it for the track so a PDK makes sense" argument, either.  Plenty of people who race their cars do it not just for the times, but the sport.  It's not like some weekend racer is putting his 130k GT3 on the track for a giant purse - he's doing it because he likes driving.  Maybe to him, the fastest absolute time possible isn't worth the loss of a manual gearbox, something he enjoys.  Maybe to him, the GT3 is the best car for him precisely because the 911 isn't perfect.  I haven't spent a great deal of time behind the wheel of my dads 911, but I can't picture it being as fun if I pull a paddle or flick a knob back and forth - it's an incredible experience partially due to it's imperfections - one of them being a manual gearbox. 

[Tave]

No it isn't.  A transmission is a HUGE part of driving.  You basically interact with the steering wheel, the pedals, and the transmission. Take out 1/3 of that equation and it amounts to a very different experience. 

More like 1/6 or less. You're still in total control of the gears; you just aren't modulating the clutch. I highly doubt Porsche will put a PDK in the GT3 that shifts when you don't tell it to.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Wait does wheelie control just prevent wheelies or does it allow you to perform perfect wheelies (like LC).  Latter would be awesome

Honda and Kawi systems (all 3 can be turned off) prevent wheelies but the BMW will let you lift the front wheel to a certain point before it intervenes. But If you continue to give the bike more throttle the BMW system will let you keep it up as long as you want.

[Cookie Monster]

Honda and Kawi systems (all 3 can be turned off) prevent wheelies but the BMW will let you lift the front wheel to a certain point before it intervenes. But If you continue to give the bike more throttle the BMW system will let you keep it up as long as you want.

Those systems sound really cool actually. Turn it off for wheelie shenanigans, and turn it back on for when you're racing or just driving around.

I would still kill myself. If/when I get a bike, I think a 600cc bike with about 130 hp would be the absolute max I would get. I'd probably still end up killing myself anyways.

[r0tor]

All the schumachers on the board really need to ask themselves.... when your on a track doing 150mph in your supercar and stomping on the brakes for a hairpin corner, do you really want to trust your trusty clutch foot to perfectly modulate the clutch while downshifting so as to not to lock up the rear wheel and send you flying off the track... while your also concentrating on modulating the brakes???

[sportyaccordy]

The legitimate argument against those systems is that they promote bad habits. But to get to the point where you would even be able to get those systems to kick in would mean you've attained some serious skill. Plus like the systems in cars they can save your life. ABS + traction control in particular.

[Onslaught]

All the schumachers on the board really need to ask themselves.... when your on a track doing 150mph in your supercar and stomping on the brakes for a hairpin corner, do you really want to trust your trusty clutch foot to perfectly modulate the clutch while downshifting so as to not to lock up the rear wheel and send you flying off the track... while your also concentrating on modulating the brakes???

If you're going 150 on a track you better have the skill to do that. If not then you shouldn't be there.


I don't care that this car hasn't got a stick. I'm not getting one and it will be faster without it. I do however fear for the death of the stick in normal cars years down the road.

[r0tor]

The problem is any boob can mash the gas in a 500hp car and be at 150mph in 15 or so seconds...

[Onslaught]

The problem is any boob can mash the gas in a 500hp car and be at 150mph in 15 or so seconds...

They won't let just any boob on the track however.

[sportyaccordy]

They won't let just any boob on the track however.

You'd be surprised.

And the stickshift isn't going anywhere. There aren't any cars under $50K with stickshifts worth having that lost them in the last 5-10 years.

[Onslaught]

You'd be surprised.

And the stickshift isn't going anywhere. There aren't any cars under $50K with stickshifts worth having that lost them in the last 5-10 years.

I'm thinking 20 years down the road.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Those systems sound really cool actually. Turn it off for wheelie shenanigans, and turn it back on for when you're racing or just driving around.

I would still kill myself. If/when I get a bike, I think a 600cc bike with about 130 hp would be the absolute max I would get. I'd probably still end up killing myself anyways.

Most stock 600 are rite around 100-110hp. 130hp is prolly close to my 750 and some older liter bikes. But you are rite when you say a 600 will kill you!

[MexicoCityM3]

With auto boxes getting better mpg now than manuals, combined with various fuel economy related taxes & regulations around the world, automakers have great incentive to get us all into automatics. I am pretty sure manuals will disappear within the next decade at most from many desirable cars.

Porsche is probably the last company that I'd criticise regarding their standing about manuals. They are basically the only company innovating in manuals today with the 7 speed box in the 991.

[Payman]

Not interested in any 911 that doesn't have a manual transmission, and don't give a rat's ass if the PDK is faster around a racetrack.

[Rich]

All the schumachers on the board really need to ask themselves.... when your on a track doing 150mph in your supercar and stomping on the brakes for a hairpin corner, do you really want to trust your trusty clutch foot to perfectly modulate the clutch while downshifting so as to not to lock up the rear wheel and send you flying off the track... while your also concentrating on modulating the brakes???

Just have a computer drive the car and get rid of any worry of that other scary stuff like turning and braking.

[MexicoCityM3]

All the schumachers on the board really need to ask themselves.... when your on a track doing 150mph in your supercar and stomping on the brakes for a hairpin corner, do you really want to trust your trusty clutch foot to perfectly modulate the clutch while downshifting so as to not to lock up the rear wheel and send you flying off the track... while your also concentrating on modulating the brakes???

It's really not as big a deal as you make it sound. Tracks have space, run-off, and practice laps.