Chipping....what's the worst that could happen?

[Onslaught]

I'd think the trade off would be MPG. I doubt the durability would be affected all that much.

[r0tor]

the worst that can happen is if you continually beat the living hell out of the thing, the soft factory engine mounts may develop problems because of the extra torque.  Stage 1 is pretty damn safe.

Cougs has no idea what the hell he is talking about.

[sportyaccordy]

The point of the other post- mr. dumber than before which is a fairly spectacular trick considering...- is that he's on a car forum trying to talk down a guy who wants more power on a car that he only wants to enjoy even more then he already does enjoy. 
That = fail

BlowCougs might as well go find himself a scrapbooking forum if he feels driving an Accord without any mods is enjoyable and wants others to experience daily the same thing. 

I agree that Cougs is wrong, but there is no need to act like an idiot to say so.

What Cougs fails to realize is chip companies don't stay in business long by putting out shitty products. Someone's engine blows up or if even the drivability is not all that, thanks to this nifty thing called the internet word spreads quickly and business suffers.

The other thing Cougs fails to realize is that yes, while nobody can compete with OEMs in manpower and expertise, OEMs also have to design to a wide range of parameters that results in compromise. I mean the emissions, noise and gas mileage regulations alone put a huge damper on performance. Its those things that make almighty OEMs like Honda program rev hang between shifts to prevent unburnt hydrocarbons from making it to the cat... which is nothing but a detriment to performance. The stock tunes suck... they're often rich in weird places, etc. Its not unheard of for gas mileage to go up with a chipping, as AFRs are tuned to a somewhat set (and leaner) range by the aftermarket.

I think its a bit goofy to downplay the level of expertise in the aftermarket as well. Again, bad aftermarket outfits don't last long, and many of the good ones have ex-OEM folks and folks straight out of racing. I would value a successful race team's expertise on making power & preserving engine life not far behind that of an OEM. If anything the OEM's only advantage is in emission control, which is really of no value outside of inspections (to me at least).

THAT SAID, I agree that chipping a lease is a bad idea if you don't know how to work your way around a car. You can plan around scheduled services, but if you have to bring it in for a problem... I still think you should consider a cheap sports car and some track days over investing into the Jetta.

[rohan]

I agree that Cougs is wrong, but there is no need to act like an idiot to say so.

Pot - meet kettle.  Kettle- meet pot.

 

[giant_mtb]

I'd probably want to hear from people with Jettas who had their chip modded at that particular place. Cougs was (amazingly) correct that some guys in a shop have nothing on VW's engineers, and so there is bound to be a trade-off. My guess, as with almost anything that gets more power out of the engine, is that there will be an impact on long-term durability and gas mileage.

APR is a very successful and legitimate Audi/Porsche/VW tuning company; they have the largest team in GrandAm racing.  I'll be getting a chip from them if I ever come up with the extra money to do so.

As far as the tuning shops that install their products, I can't really say, but I suspect that they're mostly pretty legitimate and well-selected.  Or if one really wants to make sure it's done right, take a trip to the APR headquarters and have their guys do it.  But I mean, they build/engineer race cars and shit with their products all the time, so they probably are just a bunch of hacks that don't know what they're doing.

http://www.goapr.com/

[850CSi]

You are the most ridiculous car enthusiast forum member of all time. 

... says the person who refuses to drive a 5-series in the snow

[giant_mtb]

... says the person who refuses to drive a 5-series in the snow

He said he doesn't like to let his wife drive it when there's a lot of snow to avoid her getting stuck or in an accident.  Sometimes my parents will switch cars when we get a lot of snow so my mom can drive the Explorer and my dad will wrestle with the Grand Marquis.

What's not to understand? 

[Eye of the Tiger]

He said he doesn't like to let his wife drive it when there's a lot of snow to avoid her getting stuck or in an accident.  Sometimes my parents will switch cars when we get a lot of snow so my mom can drive the Explorer and my dad will wrestle with the Grand Marquis.

What's not to understand? 

... says the person who refuses to drive an A4 Quattro in teh snow.

[hounddog]

... says the person who refuses to drive a 5-series in the snow

And, in your vast six years of driving your lightly powered car in the winter, as opposed to his over 20 in rwd police and personal cars,  how many times did you drive with your young children in the car during bad road conditions?  

His reasons for not wanting to drive a higher horsepower car in the snow and ice are perfectly valid to anyone who has a family;  RWDs are not as safe in the snow, higher horsepower RWDs are even less safe.  Even if his sole reason is to protect the car from rust, and keep it pretty, it is really none of your business.

The car belongs to him and his wife, so who the bloody hell are you to tell him how to keep his kids safe when you, and all of the other non-family having guys here, have exactly zero experience from which to speak?

Have a couple kids and drive them around in the winter, then come back here and talk shit.  Otherwise, shut the hell up about it and get off his back.  Rohan is perfectly in his rights to decide whether or not a car is safe enough or not in certain conditions for his wife and kids.  

God damn.

[Byteme]

I'd probably want to hear from people with Jettas who had their chip modded at that particular place. Cougs was (amazingly) correct that some guys in a shop have nothing on VW's engineers, and so there is bound to be a trade-off. My guess, as with almost anything that gets more power out of the engine, is that there will be an impact on long-term durability and gas mileage.

Of course there is a trade off. You aren't going to get something for nothing (or in the is case the price of a chip).

The OEM settings are designed for general drivability, reliability, performance, emissions for 50,000 miles or more, economy and durability.  And the car has to deliver that consistantly for thousands and thousands of miles You can't enhance one of those without giving something up somewhere else.  co
It's a lot like the old racer's saw, "Performance, Reliability, Low Cost.  Pick any two.  

[Byteme]

He said he doesn't like to let his wife drive it when there's a lot of snow to avoid her getting stuck or in an accident.  Sometimes my parents will switch cars when we get a lot of snow so my mom can drive the Explorer and my dad will wrestle with the Grand Marquis.

What's not to understand? 

Some of the most fun I had behind the wheel was in a rear wheel drive Dodge Charger with wide oval tires in the snow in the 60's.  All wheel drive, snow rated tires, traction and stability control all have taken a lot of fun out of winter driving.

[GoCougs]

Took a tour of the APR website. I'd be wary as I see snake oil techniques; using a chassis dyno, and in addition to claiming improved efficiency (note, not "mpg") and durability, not a single word of tradeoffs. Really? All these improvements with no tradeoffs save for the purchase price? What did VW's army of engineers miss?

Also, as Raza alluded to in the original post, would ~50 add'l horsepower without addressing the chassis or suspension benefit the driving experience overall? My hunch is no, and exactly why VW has stuck with ~200 hp for the 2.0T for going on seven model years in both the FWD cars (GTI, GLI, Beetle Turbo, etc.).

[850CSi]

And, in your vast six years of driving your lightly powered car in the winter, as opposed to his over 20 in rwd police and personal cars,  how many times did you drive with your young children in the car during bad road conditions? 

His reasons for not wanting to drive a higher horsepower car in the snow and ice are perfectly valid to anyone who has a family;  RWDs are not as safe in the snow, higher horsepower RWDs are even less safe.  Even if his sole reason is to protect the car from rust, and keep it pretty, it is really none of your business.

The car belongs to him and his wife, so who the bloody hell are you to tell him how to keep his kids safe when you, and all of the other non-family having guys here, have exactly zero experience from which to speak?

Have a couple kids and drive them around in the winter, then come back here and talk shit.  Otherwise, shut the hell up about it and get off his back.  Rohan is perfectly in his rights to decide whether or not a car is safe enough or not in certain conditions for his wife and kids. 

God damn.

[CJ]

[r0tor]

The 2.0T is no where near the point of asploding with a stage 1 tune.

Why is it not stage 1 from factory?  Well it needed to fit under the weak VR6 in some models, one way to increase fuel economy is to lower boost and power, even though it requires premium fuel an OEM is not going to trust the owners and actually tune the engine to the point of needing premium, there is only so much control of tolerances of the maf/fuel injectors/O2 sensors so the factory tune is going to be even more safe.

So yea, the APR shit is not snake oil in the least bit...

[giant_mtb]

... says the person who refuses to drive an A4 Quattro in teh snow.

Never refused.  I drove it all last winter.  And in about a week I'll be driving it again...in the winter.

[giant_mtb]

Some of the most fun I had behind the wheel was in a rear wheel drive Dodge Charger with wide oval tires in the snow in the 60's.  All wheel drive, snow rated tires, traction and stability control all have taken a lot of fun out of winter driving.

I have a shitload of fun in the snow with AWD.

[Byteme]

I have a shitload of fun in the snow with AWD.

Nah, you need that element of danger, of always being on the verge of losing control and spinning off a cliff to truely have fun.  You'll know you've had fun if you get home and the driver's seat is wet and it's not from melting snow.   

With all wheel drive you can attain speeds that can cause injury before you lose it.  With rear wheel drive you'll lose it at 5-10 MPH, not even fast enough to cause the airbags to deploy.    

[hounddog]

I am.

You guys went after him for laughing at Cougs (and he was right for doing so), then, when he answered your questions you went after him for that as well just because, wait for it, you have a fraction of time behind the wheel he does.  And, to compound the problem, you have none of his responsibility with being a father.

WTF is that?  Talk about immature.

[Raza]

If you're going to keep it and want it chipped then do it.
If you're not keeping it then don't.

For the record I kind of agree with some of the things Cougs said.

I somewhat agree with him as well.  But then again, I also know guys who have made their cars markedly and dramatically better through modifying, so it's really a buyer beware thing.  Any time you tinker, you run the risk of making it worse.  And I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

[MX793]

Also, as Raza alluded to in the original post, would ~50 add'l horsepower without addressing the chassis or suspension benefit the driving experience overall? My hunch is no, and exactly why VW has stuck with ~200 hp for the 2.0T for going on seven model years in both the FWD cars (GTI, GLI, Beetle Turbo, etc.).

The Scirocco R has well over 200 hp from the 2.0T in FWD guise.

[giant_mtb]

Nah, you need that element of danger, of always being on the verge of losing control and spinning off a cliff to truely have fun.  You'll know you've had fun if you get home and the driver's seat is wet and it's not from melting snow.   

With all wheel drive you can attain speeds that can cause injury before you lose it.  With rear wheel drive you'll lose it at 5-10 MPH, not even fast enough to cause the airbags to deploy.    

Everybody has different ideas of fun.

[r0tor]

I somewhat agree with him as well.  But then again, I also know guys who have made their cars markedly and dramatically better through modifying, so it's really a buyer beware thing.  Any time you tinker, you run the risk of making it worse.  And I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

My neighbors gti has the Apr stage 1... its a good thing

[Soup DeVille]

I somewhat agree with him as well.  But then again, I also know guys who have made their cars markedly and dramatically better through modifying, so it's really a buyer beware thing.  Any time you tinker, you run the risk of making it worse.  And I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Yes, you do run that risk.

You never struck me as an incredibly risk-averse kind of guy.


The chances are higher that you'll wreck the car before the evil unauthorized chipset has a chance to blow it up anyways

[giant_mtb]

And with those APR chips, you can get multiple programs and can choose any program (including Stock) at any time.  It's some extra money, but perhaps worth it if one is concerned with mileage or longevity when running a modified program all the time.

[MrH]

I am.

You guys went after him for laughing at Cougs (and he was right for doing so), then, when he answered your questions you went after him for that as well just because, wait for it, you have a fraction of time behind the wheel he does.  And, to compound the problem, you have none of his responsibility with being a father.

WTF is that?  Talk about immature.

He lashed out at Cougs about something he doesn't have the faintest idea about.  Cougs is right, sorry guys .  If someone is just going to lash out like that, they're just kind of asking to be made fun of.

[hotrodalex]

Cougs isn't really right. Obviously gas mileage might suffer, but a stage 1 chip isn't going to kill his engine in 5,000 miles. As long as the lease isn't an issue, he should have no problem with it.

[r0tor]

Cougs is not even remotely close to being right in this thread

[Soup DeVille]

Cougs is not even remotely close to being right in this thread

Cougs isn't that far off: if you modify anything, you're bound to change its life span in some way. Its reasonable to assume that an engine making more power works harder, and wears out quicker.

My response is basically: yeah? so?

[r0tor]

VAG themselves have 2.0T engines creating more power then an Apr stage 1 tune... there is zero frikkin downside to this