Chipping....what's the worst that could happen?

[Raza]

It's no secret that working on cars and modifying cars isn't my area of expertise.  But, there's a place 30 minutes from my office that will do an ECU reflash (APR program) and get me to 254bhp and 297lb-ft.  Which, really, is too much power for FWD, but it's the Stage 1 and there's nothing that gives you less power (230 would be ideal for this car, I think). 

Here's the link:
http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=4411

So, realistically, what kind of long term life would I be looking at if I got this?  If I decide to keep the car beyond a year or so, obviously, I'll take a hit in resale, as all modified cars do, but reliability is my main concern.  Am I going to chip it and then a week later the engine will blow up?  I have about 75K on the car right now. 

[MX793]

Reflashes can be undone and the car can be returned to its original state pretty easily.  That said, I wouldn't do it if the car is still on lease.  I'm sure it would violate your lease agreement.  If you were to take the car into the dealer for service and they happened to plug into the ECU (perhaps to download some update as part of a TSB or whatever), they'd find that it had been tampered with.

[Cookie Monster]

Reflashes can be undone and the car can be returned to its original state pretty easily.  That said, I wouldn't do it if the car is still on lease.  I'm sure it would violate your lease agreement.  If you were to take the car into the dealer for service and they happened to plug into the ECU (perhaps to download some update as part of a TSB or whatever), they'd find that it had been tampered with.

The link in Raza's post says it's undetectable by the VAGCOM thingy. I don't know if it's worth the risk, though, so I'd probably do it after the lease is up as well.

[GoCougs]

As I read that, it's not only a flash but a hardware mod to the ECU. Returning it to stock may mean a new ECU (which would be WAY more than the $599 upgrade) if you truly want to erase the evidence/history of the modification.

I look at these things this way, if this mod is all that (more power, more smoothness, more throttle response) why didn't VW do this from the factory? Call me a cynic, but the techs at a boutique mod shop ain't going to outwit the army of power train engineers of VW.

So, IMO, by definition, something will suffer. Could be only gas mileage and a bit of long term life. I wouldn't do it on a primarily/only car simply because turbo engines are much more sensitive to engine management. Also, of course, if there's a problem good luck having the shop or the chip manufacturer backup their work.

[rohan]

As I read that, it's not only a flash but a hardware mod to the ECU. Returning it to stock may mean a new ECU (which would be WAY more than the $599 upgrade) if you truly want to erase the evidence/history of the modification.

I look at these things this way, if this mod is all that (more power, more smoothness, more throttle response) why didn't VW do this from the factory? Call me a cynic, but the techs at a boutique mod shop ain't going to outwit the army of power train engineers of VW.

So, IMO, by definition, something will suffer. Could be only gas mileage and a bit of long term life. I wouldn't do it on a primarily/only car simply because turbo engines are much more sensitive to engine management. Also, of course, if there's a problem good luck having the shop or the chip manufacturer backup their work.

[Raza]

Reflashes can be undone and the car can be returned to its original state pretty easily.  That said, I wouldn't do it if the car is still on lease.  I'm sure it would violate your lease agreement.  If you were to take the car into the dealer for service and they happened to plug into the ECU (perhaps to download some update as part of a TSB or whatever), they'd find that it had been tampered with.

Well, the warranty is long gone.  What could they do?

[MX793]

Well, the warranty is long gone.  What could they do?

If the car is still on lease, you'd have to look at your lease agreement and see what is allowed and what the penalties are.  When you lease a vehicle, you do not legally own it.  The leasing company owns the car.  If you modify the car and that violates the lease agreement and Lessor finds out, they may well be able to terminate the lease immediately.  What does lease termination mean?  I don't know, you'd have to look at your agreement.  It may mean repossession of the vehicle.  It may mean that they force you to buy out the lease immediately.

[CALL_911]

Despite the fact that I'd probably chip my car if it weren't for its warranty, he brings up valid points.

[CALL_911]

Better question: why would you do this to a car that isn't yours?

[rohan]

Sure- if you're a post menopausal woman who collects cats and hairballs and garden knomes. 

[CALL_911]

Wow, thanks a lot. I'm now stupider than I was before I read that post.

[rohan]

Wow, thanks a lot. I'm now stupider than I was before I read that post.

Wow- I had no idea that was possible.

[CALL_911]

Wow- I had no idea that was possible.

Neither did I. You learn something new everyday.

[rohan]

The point of the other post- mr. dumber than before which is a fairly spectacular trick considering...- is that he's on a car forum trying to talk down a guy who wants more power on a car that he only wants to enjoy even more then he already does enjoy.  
That = fail

BlowCougs might as well go find himself a scrapbooking forum if he feels driving an Accord without any mods is enjoyable and wants others to experience daily the same thing.  

[GoCougs]

Oh, gods am I ever restraining myself on that nice pile of Ironical Internetryism just sitting there all nice and moist...

[rohan]

Oh, gods am I ever restraining myself on that nice pile of Ironical Internetryism just sitting there all nice and moist...

You are the most ridiculous car enthusiast forum member of all time. 

/thread

[r0tor]

I flash my car with my own programming and then when its dealer time I just flash it back to stock...

No reason to worry, just do it and enjoy

[CALL_911]

The point of the other post- mr. dumber than before which is a fairly spectacular trick considering...- is that he's on a car forum trying to talk down a guy who wants more power on a car that he only wants to enjoy even more then he already does enjoy.  
That = fail

BlowCougs might as well go find himself a scrapbooking forum if he feels driving an Accord without any mods is enjoyable and wants others to experience daily the same thing.  

[Cookie Monster]

The point of the other post- mr. dumber than before which is a fairly spectacular trick considering...- is that he's on a car forum trying to talk down a guy who wants more power on a car that he only wants to enjoy even more then he already does enjoy. 
That = fail

BlowCougs might as well go find himself a scrapbooking forum if he feels driving an Accord without any mods is enjoyable and wants others to experience daily the same thing. 

There is more to modifying a car than just fun and enjoyment; otherwise, Raza wouldn't have made this thread.

Cougs brings up some valid points. I don't know anything about the reliability (and he just stated, neither does he), but I would also think that there might be some reliability concerns. He even just said nothing could go wrong other than some increase in fuel consumption. And as MX793 said, the company leasing the car probably has rules against it.

[rohan]

[J86]

Raza- got some good, useful info here?

[sparkplug]

Sure a reflash sound good. But do so only if the lease is up and the car is your. This isn't like putting changing the exhaust system out or something bad like that.

Is the chip and intel or amd.

[Raza]

Better question: why would you do this to a car that isn't yours?

I'm buying it at the end of the lease.   I'm 35,000 miles over my lease allotment, no way I'm paying them $5,000+ to take it back.

[CALL_911]

I'm buying it at the end of the lease.   I'm 35,000 miles over my lease allotment, no way I'm paying them $5,000+ to take it back.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I'd chip it. I want to chip mine very badly. Sucks to be broke. Apparently (as per some fishy codes my car threw up recently) my ECU has been tampered with and is currently in "stock" mode. If this is actually true, I'd love to find out how to get it out of "stock" mode.

[Onslaught]

If you're going to keep it and want it chipped then do it.
If you're not keeping it then don't.

For the record I kind of agree with some of the things Cougs said.

[2o6]

I don't think he's wrong at all.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Chip it, but do it for regular unleaded. Also, big exhausts.

[rohan]

I don't think he's wrong at all.

Coming from you that means- well it means nothing at all. 

Sorry. 

[Soup DeVille]

Raza, don't listen to these fools. Chip the damned car. Yes, if they find out it MAY violate the lease. How are they going to know? Do guys come into your garage at night and scan your ECM?  It won't void the warranty unless the know about it AND can make a case that your modifications caused the failure.

But, you already know this.

So just do it already.

[Rupert]

I'd probably want to hear from people with Jettas who had their chip modded at that particular place. Cougs was (amazingly) correct that some guys in a shop have nothing on VW's engineers, and so there is bound to be a trade-off. My guess, as with almost anything that gets more power out of the engine, is that there will be an impact on long-term durability and gas mileage.