Chipping....what's the worst that could happen?

[giant_mtb]

VAG themselves have 2.0T engines creating more power then an Apr stage 1 tune... there is zero frikkin downside to this

I don't see why everyone's making such a large fuss, either.

[Cookie Monster]

VAG themselves have 2.0T engines creating more power then an Apr stage 1 tune... there is zero frikkin downside to this

Just wondering, but is there a difference between Raza's 2.0T vs one from the Scirocco? Different pistons, rings, rods, etc could be the difference...

[CALL_911]

Cougs isn't really right. Obviously gas mileage might suffer, but a stage 1 chip isn't going to kill his engine in 5,000 miles. As long as the lease isn't an issue, he should have no problem with it.

If you think that's what he said, reread the post. He's spot on. In the long term, I'd assume a chipped 2.0T would be more likely to fuck up the engine than a stock car. His outline of the possible concerns chipping a car was correct.

[giant_mtb]

And with those APR chips, you can get multiple programs and can choose any program (including Stock) at any time.  It's some extra money, but perhaps worth it if one is concerned with mileage or longevity when running a modified program all the time.

[CALL_911]

When did anyone dispute that? You're not wrong.

[r0tor]

If you think that's what he said, reread the post. He's spot on. In the long term, I'd assume a chipped 2.0T would be more likely to fuck up the engine than a stock car. His outline of the possible concerns chipping a car was correct.

OK then, start trying to find cases of a stage 1 Apr tune futzing up an engine... that or join the clueless club and shut it

[Soup DeVille]

VAG themselves have 2.0T engines creating more power then an Apr stage 1 tune... there is zero frikkin downside to this

I don't see APR doing it the exact same way, or having the exact same resources for testing- and I don't see that owners who modify their cars for more power are driving the same way the average VW owner does either. I don't think there are enough chipped cars out there to form a statistically viable bell curve for what happens afterwards: and certainly not many where that's the only modification.

There is a potential downside: but nothing that would effect my decision. I'm smart enough to relaize that there's a healthy safety margin built into most engines these days that can be exploited without serious consequences: and that's good enough for my purposes.

[giant_mtb]

When did anyone dispute that? You're not wrong.

So I don't understand why everyone cares so much.  Yeah, sure, it is possible that the chip could reduce reliability/longevity of the car.  Is it likely to happen or make a huge impact on either of those?  No, most likely not.  For cripe's sake, you people talk about a chip like it's the anti-Christ.

[GoCougs]

Just wondering, but is there a difference between Raza's 2.0T vs one from the Scirocco? Different pistons, rings, rods, etc could be the difference...

Here's what I found:

- Lower compression forged pistons
- strengthened connecting rods
- enlarged wrist pins
- stronger piston rings
- upgraded bearings
- reinforced engine block
- upgraded camshafts (longer duration)
- upgraded injectors (+13% flow)
- larger K04 turbo producing 1.2 bar of boost (+3 PSI over K03 equipped GTI)
- larger intercooler (+30%)
- relocated bypass valve
- timing chain rather than timing belt

[r0tor]

All that and you missed the fact the scirocco R has an FSI engine and not the TSI in the gti....

[GoCougs]

The Scirocco R has well over 200 hp from the 2.0T in FWD guise.

Completely different car than the plebeian Golf, Jetta, etc. It will have the right goods to use the extra power; not only a much beefed up engine (see previous post) but also the suspension, chassis, and drive train parts to make it work well and reliable.

[r0tor]

this is about the equivalent of telling a camaro owner his engine is going to be over stressed by installing an exhaust system... yeesh, this forum is getting more unthusiast by the day

[GoCougs]

Why does "chipping" void a warranty?

Why doesn't VW use such a cheap method to get significantly more performance out of a fairly stale engine?

Sorry guys, there are tradeoff(s) with "chipping" a F/I car by ~50hp. The only thing left to do is to figure out how big they'll be, and whether you'd be able to live with 'em.

[Cookie Monster]

this is about the equivalent of telling a camaro owner his engine is going to be over stressed by installing an exhaust system... yeesh, this forum is getting more unthusiast by the day

He asked what was the worst that could happen for a reason... I don't think anyone explicitly said not to, but there are other considerations to keep in mind when talking about a high mileage daily driver...

[GoCougs]

this is about the equivalent of telling a camaro owner his engine is going to be over stressed by installing an exhaust system... yeesh, this forum is getting more unthusiast by the day

Knowledge, facts, and data are not unenthusiast. 

[giant_mtb]

Why does "chipping" void a warranty?

Why doesn't VW use such a cheap method to get significantly more performance out of a fairly stale engine?

Sorry guys, there are tradeoff(s) with "chipping" a F/I car by ~50hp. The only thing left to do is to figure out how big they'll be, and whether you'd be able to live with 'em.

Because not every car is meant to come from the factory with the most possible power?  If that were the case, we'd all be driving cars that do 0-60 in 4 seconds.

We're not retarded...of course there will be tradeoffs, but you guys continue to talk about it like it's the worst idea ever.  For CarSPIN's sake you guys are getting lame (or perhaps old).

[GoCougs]

All that and you missed the fact the scirocco R has an FSI engine and not the TSI in the gti....

That is not knowledge, fact or data. He specifically asked for technical info, not a moniker or trade name.

[r0tor]

Do you have any knowledge of the design of a tsi engine, of tuning a boosted engine, have any facts of actual problems caused by the tune, facts as to any of the design Max allowable stresses of any of the engine components, or data of any failures caused by a pretty safe tune like the stage 1?

Also, chipping does not void your warranty.  The manufacturer needs to PROVE that a modification caused a failure to deny a warranty claim.

[giant_mtb]

It's okay, Cougs knows more about all of those things than APR.

[GoCougs]

Because not every car is meant to come from the factory with the most possible power?  If that were the case, we'd all be driving cars that do 0-60 in 4 seconds.

We're not retarded...of course there will be tradeoffs, but you guys continue to talk about it like it's the worst idea ever.  For CarSPIN's sake you guys are getting lame (or perhaps old).

Why would an automaker spend hundreds of millions $$$ (or more) to develop an engine to only neuter it? They don't do that. Ever. Designing and building cars is a cutthroat business like any other.

To me it seems that those who don't understand how "chipping" works are the ones building the "worst idea ever" strawman. There WILL be tradeoffs, and for a higher mileage F/I daily driver, I don't think they'd be insignificant.

[r0tor]

That is not knowledge, fact or data. He specifically asked for technical info, not a moniker or trade name.

The difference between a tsi engine and a modified fsi engine is not just a letter on an engine cover... pretty substantial differences actually..  Go ahead though and keep doing 2 minute google searches to attempt to know what your talking about.

[giant_mtb]

Why would an automaker spend hundreds of millions $$$ (or more) to develop an engine to only neuter it? They don't do that. Ever. Designing and building cars is a cutthroat business like any other.

To me it seems that those who don't understand how "chipping" works are the ones building the "worst idea ever" strawman. There WILL be tradeoffs, and for a higher mileage F/I daily driver, I don't think they'd be insignificant.

God forbid.  The entire aftermarket should just cease to exist, then? 

[r0tor]

Why would an automaker spend hundreds of millions $$$ (or more) to develop an engine to only neuter it? They don't do that. Ever. Designing and building cars is a cutthroat business like any other.

To me it seems that those who don't understand how "chipping" works are the ones building the "worst idea ever" strawman. There WILL be tradeoffs, and for a higher mileage F/I daily driver, I don't think they'd be insignificant.

Oh please tell me what these trade offs are exactly...and I mean exactly

[GoCougs]

The difference between a tsi engine and a modified fsi engine is not just a letter on an engine cover... pretty substantial differences actually..  Go ahead though and keep doing 2 minute google searches to attempt to know what your talking about.

Uh, didn't I just list the "substantial differences?"

Here's what I found:

- Lower compression forged pistons
- strengthened connecting rods
- enlarged wrist pins
- stronger piston rings
- upgraded bearings
- reinforced engine block
- upgraded camshafts (longer duration)
- upgraded injectors (+13% flow)
- larger K04 turbo producing 1.2 bar of boost (+3 PSI over K03 equipped GTI)
- larger intercooler (+30%)
- relocated bypass valve
- timing chain rather than timing belt

[GoCougs]

Oh please tell me what these trade offs are exactly...and I mean exactly

Ha, ha. NO. You turkeys turning this into a troll fest get to stew in your own sick.

[r0tor]

And again you missed the entire point about the engine your posting about not even being the same basic design as the tsi variant in the gti... fundemental differences like one having a timing chain

[r0tor]

Ha, ha. NO. You turkeys turning this into a troll fest get to stew in your own sick.

I've tuned my engine myself and tuned a few others and actually know what the fuck I'm talking about, how about you?

[Soup DeVille]

Why does "chipping" void a warranty?

It doesn't.

Unless the modification caused the failure.

[GoCougs]

And again you missed the entire point about the engine your posting about not even being the same basic design as the tsi variant in the gti... fundemental differences like one having a timing chain

Again, the moniker that adorned the intake cover is irrelevant. He asked for technical info, he received it, and of course there are fundamental differences - the power difference is substantial.

[GoCougs]

I've tuned my engine myself and tuned a few others and actually know what the fuck I'm talking about, how about you?

You troll, you prove. I will judge fairly.