991 GT3 first drive

[FlatBlackCaddy]

"Missing out on engine braking"?  What are you missing out on?  If you're hard on the brakes already, you're not gaining anything with engine braking.

ya   

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Not to mention if you're coming down off a long straight into a tight corner you don't always have time to go through each gear(with a clutch disengage for each). I normally will do a double blip and use the gates for timing of the blip. Like in a 5-3 situation, this is faster then engaging fourth then clutching back in and going to 3.

As for the porsche, in the end I don't think the lack of a manual would keep me from owning such a amazing car. While I would prefer it and if there were other options in the price range that offered a manual I would prioritize those options. However I would not be able to over look a package that offered EVERYTHING but the ability to change my own gears, this car looks to be solidly in that category. It looks amazing, sounds fantastic, handles(based on reviews) unbelievably and so on. Ultimately a good PDK/DSG will still allow me FULL control over when and if I want to change gears.

[Soup DeVille]

Oh, I'd absolutely love to have this car, with this transmission. I just think some people's arguments are a little silly on both sides.

It's not a race car; it's a street car for porschefiles who want to feel like they're in a race car. There are lots of faster track cars for the same or less money, and that's not even getting into real race cars; which is what I'd be looking at if I was spending this kind of money on a track toy.

[Lebowski]

There are lots of faster track cars for the same or less money

No one has ever made the argument that people buy 911s to save money.

[Raza]

Are you really arguing that you think you can shift faster than a DSG? In any setting? 

No, that's not what I'm arguing.  At all. 

[Raza]

I will not fault Porsche for going sequential/PDK gearbox in their "track" capable street car, since that really is the transmission you want when you want to extract the most from a car.  I do kind of feel like the SMG/DSG gearbox is becoming a marketing department's wet dream.  "We're not selling out by offering an automatic gearbox to try to lure the less hardcore drivers, we're offering the transmission that offers the best possible performance to better cater to performance enthusiasts!".  They could have preserved more of the GT3's hardcore image by disabling the transmission's automatic mode, making the driver still summon every shift.  But there's that pesky purist's philosophy getting in the way of practical common sense.

This is what I've been trying to say about ACTs all along!  Thanks for putting it in a way that doesn't get anyone's jimmies all rustled. 

[MrH]

So you want them to lose sales, disable the auto mode, and take away something through software just to prove a point and "preserve the image"?  Wow...

[Lebowski]

Disabling the option to use an auto mode would be retarded.

[Soup DeVille]

No one has ever made the argument that people buy 911s to save money.

No, they buy them because they want them, and largely because they love Porsches. But the arguments for the DSG gearbox are all "because racecar," when the glaring, obvious fact that nobody designs race cars around a rear engine chassis is completely ignored.

[Soup DeVille]

Disabling the option to use an auto mode would be retarded.

Agreed.

[Lebowski]

No, they buy them because they want them, and largely because they love Porsches. But the arguments for the DSG gearbox are all "because racecar," when the glaring, obvious fact that nobody designs race cars around a rear engine chassis is completely ignored.

I don't think anyone has called it a race car, however it is clearly the most track focused of the 12 flavours of 991 currently available/unveiled.  It makes sense it would be configured the way it is.

Those knocking it using the argument "well I wouldn't buy it" ... uh, ok, in 99% of cases you'd be better served by a different 991, like a C2S, anyway.  I realize most buyers don't track their cars (I don't either), but if that's the case why would you get the GT3?

I think I've said before, I'm way more disappointed about the lack of manual in the Turbo than I am the GT3, and even then it wouldn't sway my decision were I buying one.

[Soup DeVille]

I don't think anyone has called it a race car, however it is clearly the most track focused of the 12 flavours of 991 currently available/unveiled.  It makes sense it would be configured the way it is.

Those knocking it using the argument "well I wouldn't buy it" ... uh, ok, in 99% of cases you'd be better served by a different 991, like a C2S, anyway. 

If I wanted to go racing in a production 911, this is what I would get.

If I just wanted to go racing however...

[Soup DeVille]

Although I'd probably kill myself in it, if I were to spend this level of coin on a Porsche just for track use, I'd be looking at something more like a '73 RS.

[Raza]

So you want them to lose sales, disable the auto mode, and take away something through software just to prove a point and "preserve the image"?  Wow...

No.  Where did I say that?  Where did anyone say that?

[MX793]

So you want them to lose sales, disable the auto mode, and take away something through software just to prove a point and "preserve the image"?  Wow...

No, I said it probably would preserve some of the hardcore image.  I also said it was impractical and nonsensical.

It would make much more sense of them to disable it and then charge extra to re-enable it as an option

[CJ]

You guys are insane.

[SVT666]

I would want to hit every gear on the track. During braking skipping a gear = missing out on engine braking

You don't engine brake on the track.  If you are engine braking, then you're not going fast enough.  Period.  End of story.

[Galaxy]

You don't engine brake on the track.  If you are engine braking, then you're not going fast enough.  Period.  End of story.

Hmm, but engine braking will engage the diffferential locks (if so equipped) and that might help with traction even under brakeing.

[SVT666]

Hmm, but engine braking will engage the diffferential locks (if so equipped) and that might help with traction even under brakeing.

Driven properly on a track, a car will never engine brake.

[Galaxy]

Driven properly on a track, a car will never engine brake.

Not sure about that. Getting off the throttle abruptly should create at least some degree of a vacuum in the engine.

[SVT666]

Not sure about that. Getting off the throttle abruptly should create at least some degree of a vacuum in the engine.

You are on the gas or on the brakes, and when you are on the brakes, you're on them hard.

[Galaxy]

You are on the gas or on the brakes, and when you are on the brakes, you're on them hard.

Yes, but there is still some engine braking going on - unless you push in the clutch - which might be really helpfull with the diffs.

[MX793]

Hmm, but engine braking will engage the diffferential locks (if so equipped) and that might help with traction even under brakeing.

The brakes are generating so much more force than the engine braking effect, and associated differential effects, that it will be in the noise.  The brakes alone on practically any modern car are sufficient to lock up the wheels, and once you've reached the threshold of wheel lock, no additional braking force, be it engine braking or more from the regular brakes, is going to help you stop any faster.

Also, the tendency for limited slip differentials to inhibit turn-in will be present regardless of whether the vehicle is under engine braking or if the clutch is pushed in (or the transmission in neutral).  Limited slips resist any effort for the wheel on the left to spin at a different speed from the wheel on the right.

[S204STi]

Hmm, but engine braking will engage the diffferential locks (if so equipped) and that might help with traction even under brakeing.

Diff locks are normally 2-way anyway, meaning that they engage when power is applied and disengaged when coasting.

[12,000 RPM]

You are on the gas or on the brakes, and when you are on the brakes, you're on them hard.

No thats not true. Its true you dont gain anything from engine braking during hard braking but there is plenty of transition between the gas and brake through turns. You look at brake/throttle feeds on any race, it's always some fraction of brake or throttle mid turn, sometimes with none of either.