991 GT3 first drive

[12,000 RPM]

I havent even watched the video yet.

New Porsche 991 GT3. First Drive. - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Nice wheels!

[r0tor]

I would take that over any ferrari, audi, lambo, mc claren , bugatti, or any other exotic out there

[S204STi]

Sounds nice. 

[Lebowski]

very nice

[Char]

I love this car so much - more than any other car that has existed (save other 911s and the F1)

I would kill you all just to have one. (Raza and Wimmer twice)

[S204STi]

I'm pretty sure Raza and his shovel have things handled.

[12,000 RPM]

I love this car so much - more than any other car that has existed (save other 911s and the F1)

I would kill you all just to have one. (Raza and Wimmer twice)

You do realize its a Volkswagen rite

Im really not crazy about the transmission. Not gonna open up that can of worms but Raza's FOG theory was correct.

[S204STi]

Chris makes a good point about the lack of a manual gearbox.  Since this is sort of the stronghold of the driver's car, it's sad not to have the option at least.

[Raza]

Well, I'm sure they'll sell more now that it's automatic only. 

The GT3 has moved into that GT-R territory.  I understand it, I appreciate its technical mastery, but I just don't love it.  Too many buttons for a GT3. 

Inevitable, yes.  Regrettable?  Yes.  As long as old ones are still around when I have the money to buy an old one, it's fine. This is all feels too much like the Cayenne to me.   

[MrH]

Just look at how fast that thing revs. I can't imagine trying to keep up with that beastly engine with a conventional manual.

[CALL_911]

Yum. I would do terrible things for this car.

[12,000 RPM]

Just look at how fast that thing revs. I can't imagine trying to keep up with that beastly engine with a conventional manual.

Its doable w/a good manual

[Lebowski]

Meh, I'm over the lack of manual on this.  Get a Carrera S if its that important to you.

[12,000 RPM]

Why does the availability of different transmissions make sense on a Carrera but not the GT3

It should be the other way around.

No sense crying about it though. The markeths speaketh. Ke$ha wants a GT3

[Raza]

Why does the availability of different transmissions make sense on a Carrera but not the GT3

It should be the other way around.

No sense crying about it though. The markeths speaketh. Ke$ha wants a GT3

It is what it is, I agree.  As long as there are good mechanics out there, enthusiasts will find a way to keep their cars running.  Ke$ha can set the PDK to ghost ride mode and walk alongside it in her next music video for all I care.  I want a 911 SC. 

[Lebowski]

Why does the availability of different transmissions make sense on a Carrera but not the GT3

It should be the other way around.

No sense crying about it though. The markeths speaketh. Ke$ha wants a GT3

It's a significantly more focused car than the Carrera, so shouldn't be that surprising there are fewer choices. So no, the other way around would make no sense.

[MrH]

Its doable w/a good manual

I disagree.

Maybe it's a stupid metric, but I've got a racing seat and 6-speed manual + clutch setup for Gran Turismo.  Anything pushing 350 or 400+ hp becomes almost unmanageable with a stick.  You're diving from apex to apex so quick, trying to focus on heel toeing and being in the right gear is near impossible. You've got 7 gears to choose from, each of which you're in for a matter of seconds at most before you upshift or downshifts.

It's like hurtling towards the sun, and seconds before your impending death, you have to tie your shoes before hitting the brakes.  It's nuts.

[Raza]

I disagree.

Maybe it's a stupid metric, but I've got a racing seat and 6-speed manual + clutch setup for Gran Turismo.  Anything pushing 350 or 400+ hp becomes almost unmanageable with a stick.  You're diving from apex to apex so quick, trying to focus on heel toeing and being in the right gear is near impossible. You've got 7 gears to choose from, each of which you're in for a matter of seconds at most before you upshift or downshifts.

It's like hurtling towards the sun, and seconds before your impending death, you have to tie your shoes before hitting the brakes.  It's nuts.

350 horsepower is unmanageable with a stick?

[MrH]

350 horsepower is unmanageable with a stick?

On a track, yes, it's very difficult to worry about braking points and hitting the right line.  Upsetting the balance of a car with a downshift becomes more critical as you get to higher and higher speeds.  I can mistime a heel toe downshift a little on my BRZ and be ok.  If you did that in a car like this during hard braking, you're off the track.

[Raza]

On a track, yes, it's very difficult to worry about braking points and hitting the right line.  Upsetting the balance of a car with a downshift becomes more critical as you get to higher and higher speeds.  I can mistime a heel toe downshift a little on my BRZ and be ok.  If you did that in a car like this during hard braking, you're off the track.

Oh, this illusion again? 

[MrH]

Oh, this illusion again? 

It's an illusion now?

[Raza]

It's an illusion now?

That the majority of exotic car owners regularly track their cars?  Yeah.

[MrH]

GT3 owners?  Yeah, a ton of them do.

Even if you're not on a track.  When your limits get higher, hitting things right becomes more and more critical.  If you're not even remotely concerned with things like upsetting the balance, braking points, clipping apexes, you're not even in the same universe to touching this car's potential.  Why even bother getting this over a base Carrera then?

[Raza]

GT3 owners?  Yeah, a ton of them do.

Even if you're not on a track.  When your limits get higher, hitting things right becomes more and more critical.  If you're not even remotely concerned with things like upsetting the balance, braking points, clipping apexes, you're not even in the same universe to touching this car's potential.  Why even bother getting this over a base Carrera then?

The same reason why most people buy expensive or exotic cars.  It's more expensive.  It's jewelry you drive. 

[12,000 RPM]

On a track, yes, it's very difficult to worry about braking points and hitting the right line.  Upsetting the balance of a car with a downshift becomes more critical as you get to higher and higher speeds.  I can mistime a heel toe downshift a little on my BRZ and be ok.  If you did that in a car like this during hard braking, you're off the track.

Not if you're a good driver. Technology should exist to supplement driving skills, not replace them. If you can't hit the right line at full tilt w/stick + clutch, drive slower, learn the car and build your skills + coordination until you can. Bypassing that learning process just seems like a huge cop out for people who claim to be good drivers and enthusiasts.

[MrH]

The same reason why most people buy expensive or exotic cars.  It's more expensive.  It's jewelry you drive. 

If this is just expensive jewelry, why do you care?

Not if you're a good driver. Technology should exist to supplement driving skills, not replace them. If you can't hit the right line at full tilt w/stick + clutch, drive slower, learn the car and build your skills + coordination until you can. Bypassing that learning process just seems like a huge cop out for people who claim to be good drivers and enthusiasts.

Serious LOL at how easy you think it is to drive one of these all out properly.

And yes, they replaced the driving skill in GT3 Cup cars too by having sequential manuals in them.  My mother could keep up with those guys now!

All I'm saying is, if your solution is to drive slower and learn until you can drive do all these things perfectly full out, no one would come close to touching the performance potential of these cars.  Might as well just get a base 911.

Why aren't you guys advocating bringing back manual choke operation?  Hand cranked engines?

[Cookie Monster]

I disagree.

Maybe it's a stupid metric, but I've got a racing seat and 6-speed manual + clutch setup for Gran Turismo.  Anything pushing 350 or 400+ hp becomes almost unmanageable with a stick.  You're diving from apex to apex so quick, trying to focus on heel toeing and being in the right gear is near impossible. You've got 7 gears to choose from, each of which you're in for a matter of seconds at most before you upshift or downshifts.

It's like hurtling towards the sun, and seconds before your impending death, you have to tie your shoes before hitting the brakes.  It's nuts.

Racing games don't even give you an accurate sense of speed.

And if you're going to mis-time shifts, drive slower until you can nail those shifts every time. Saying "oh I can't manage it with a stick" is a cop out excuse. Seems like people just want the car to be easier to drive while they show off how fast they are, instead of improving their skills along with their speed.

[MrH]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  It's not a cop out.  It's "hey, let's focus at the difficult task at hand instead of fiddling with an antiquated process that can't even come close to keeping up with the rest of the car."


These cars are so extreme, trying to saddle the driver with extraneous steps seems kind of silly.  I think we're all in the mindset of comparing them to what we experience in our daily driving.  Yeah, I'll take my slow BRZ with a manual over a DSG anyday.  But in this machine?  It's like trying to blast to the moon in a rocket, but you've got to shovel coal into the furnace the entire time while piloting it.  Your answer is to slow down until you learn to shovel better.  Even when you're the best at it, you're still missing out and it's detracting from ability to use it best.

It's the same reason I don't want a manual choke on a Ferrari 458.  It's holding me back from the experiencing the ridiculousness of it.

[Raza]

If this is just expensive jewelry, why do you care?

As I stated above, I don't care.

It is what it is, I agree.  As long as there are good mechanics out there, enthusiasts will find a way to keep their cars running.  Ke$ha can set the PDK to ghost ride mode and walk alongside it in her next music video for all I care.  I want a 911 SC.