OK this is worth hyperbole. Avalon Hybrid legitimately does 40 MPG combined???

[12,000 RPM]

My Rabbit can't do better than 23 MPG combined (it does have a CEL though)

That is damn impressive!!!!

Road Test: 2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid

Not exactly dog slow either though it won't thrill you. I'm impressed

Toyota needs to make a hybrid Corolla

[2o6]

A Corolla Hybrid.....would be a Prius.


People like to knock Toyota, but they deliver in real world fuel economy. My Yaris is averaging 35-36 mixed.

[r0tor]

My parents hybrid fusion regularly gets the same mileage i'm told... despite what lawsuits may want people to believe

[ifcar]

My parents hybrid fusion regularly gets the same mileage i'm told... despite what lawsuits may want people to believe

The lawsuit would be based on the fact that the Avalon is rated for 40 and the Fusion is rated for 47.

[12,000 RPM]

A Corolla Hybrid.....would be a Prius.

Not with 200HP

That would actually be a Corolla worth buying

[2o6]

Not with 200HP

That would actually be a Corolla worth buying

Buy a Camry Hybrid, then.

[CALL_911]

Your Rabbit does 23 MPG? Wow is the 2.5 a lump

[Raza]

A hybrid gets good gas mileage?  Stop the presses!

[12,000 RPM]

Your Rabbit does 23 MPG? Wow is the 2.5 a lump

I think it needs a tune. I'd rather this than the carbon buildup issues of the turbo engines though

[93JC]

I forgot they still made the Avalon.

[r0tor]

The lawsuit would be based on the fact that the Avalon is rated for 40 and the Fusion is rated for 47.

They have have measured tanks in the 60s and tanks in the 30s... Hybrid mileage is completely incomparable and unrepeatable in real world driving.

[12,000 RPM]

They have have measured tanks in the 60s and tanks in the 30s... Hybrid mileage is completely incomparable and unrepeatable in real world driving.

Regular cars are the same way

EPA mileage is just a guide

But if the real world median is way under the EPA rating there's a problem. 40 combined is still good, Ford fucked up with that lie.

[2o6]

I beat my EPA rating all the time.

[CALL_911]

I just learned my car does 25 combined according to the EPA. I usually get between 25.5 and 27 combined.

[r0tor]

Regular cars are the same way

EPA mileage is just a guide

But if the real world median is way under the EPA rating there's a problem. 40 combined is still good, Ford fucked up with that lie.

You can't exactly lie on an EPA test.  The results are what they are - whether or not they match your driving style and scenario (huge variability in a hybrid) is a different story.

[Laconian]

What if Ford's GPS told the ECU "hey, I'm near an EPA address! SET EPA MODE TO TRUE"?

!

[GoCougs]

You can't exactly lie on an EPA test.  The results are what they are - whether or not they match your driving style and scenario (huge variability in a hybrid) is a different story.

Is is a lie though if Ford games their hybrid system to take maximum advantage of the scripted EPA test at the expense of real-world driving scenarios?

[r0tor]

You mean just like most automakers choosing a top gear ratio for the test?

[12,000 RPM]

You can't exactly lie on an EPA test.

Yea you can. The EPA isn't conducting tests on every car, just a sample of models. They don't have the funding to do comprehensive testing. Most ratings are conducted by the manufacturers themselves in accordance w/the EPA's procedures and handed in in good faith. It's very easy to "game", at least on its way to the EPA. They could (and probably did) run the tests on cars w/no interiors or illegally modified engines or something. Or they just lied.

Its not like manufacturers are sending every car to the EPA to get tested. Though that is probably the most rational way to do it (and make the manufacturers pay).

[2o6]

Hyundai and Kia lied.

[MX793]

Yea you can. The EPA isn't conducting tests on every car, just a sample of models. They don't have the funding to do comprehensive testing. Most ratings are conducted by the manufacturers themselves in accordance w/the EPA's procedures and handed in in good faith. It's very easy to "game", at least on its way to the EPA. They could (and probably did) run the tests on cars w/no interiors or illegally modified engines or something. Or they just lied.

Its not like manufacturers are sending every car to the EPA to get tested. Though that is probably the most rational way to do it (and make the manufacturers pay).

Tests are performed on a rolling dyno, stripping the interior (or aerodynamic aids) will do nothing to improve them.

[MX793]

You mean just like most automakers choosing a top gear ratio for the test?

Skip-shift features on manual transmissions (a-la Corvette, Camaro, and GT500), automatic transmission programming specifically written for the EPA test, gearing chosen to perform well in the test as opposed to real driving...  Fuel mileage targets, based on the test, are design requirements.  The automakers will design accordingly to meet those targets in the test.

[r0tor]

 

Yea you can. The EPA isn't conducting tests on every car, just a sample of models. They don't have the funding to do comprehensive testing. Most ratings are conducted by the manufacturers themselves in accordance w/the EPA's procedures and handed in in good faith. It's very easy to "game", at least on its way to the EPA. They could (and probably did) run the tests on cars w/no interiors or illegally modified engines or something. Or they just lied.

Its not like manufacturers are sending every car to the EPA to get tested. Though that is probably the most rational way to do it (and make the manufacturers pay).

Do you realize the penalties involved if a manufacturer cheats the EPA test?  The absolute PR nightmare?

[2o6]

Do you realize the penalties involved if a manufacturer cheats the EPA test?  The absolute PR nightmare?

Ask Hyundai.

[12,000 RPM]

Do you realize the penalties involved if a manufacturer cheats the EPA test?  The absolute PR nightmare?

Hyundai + Ford did just that, and got away with it for quite some time 

Just cause its a bad idea, doesn't mean manufacturers won't try it. Point is though cheating EPA tests is easy and manufacturers have done it.

[r0tor]

Hyundai + Ford did just that, and got away with it for quite some time 

Just cause its a bad idea, doesn't mean manufacturers won't try it. Point is though cheating EPA tests is easy and manufacturers have done it.

And your proof that Ford did is what?  Now that my parents are no longer remote starting the car to warm it up, they are regularly meeting or exceeding epa estimates.

[280Z Turbo]

I forgot they still made the Avalon.

The new model is selling pretty well. They actually made it look good for once.

[93JC]

The new model is selling pretty well.

Wouldn't know, they don't sell 'em here!


This discussion sounded a little familiar so I did a search through my old posts. It turns out I had this very same discussion ("They still make the Avalon? wat.") about a year ago.

And it turns out Hyundai still makes the Azera! Who knew?!

[GoCougs]

You mean just like most automakers choosing a top gear ratio for the test?

Gotcha . Minimum RPM doesn't automatically equate to maximum MPG. If the test procedure is known ahead of time, what with electronic throttle, ECU and electronic transmission, a whole lot can be done to maximize MPG for said procedure - shift points, TC lockup, A/F mixture, timing, throttle position (esp. as it concerns pumping losses), etc. Turbo cars are even more so - now add boost control (and no coincident that turbo cars are falling well short in real-world driving - esp. Ecoboost V6 and Hyundai 2.0T). 

Is this lying or cheating? Meh...

[GoCougs]

As to the Avalon, it sells well for the class and this new generation is getting great if not rave reviews.