Next gen Titan to offer Cummins V8

[Mustangfan2003]

Toyota might be content to eke out an existence in the fullsize pickup market with its lightly refreshed Tundra, but Nissan looks like it'll be a bit more aggressive with its next-generation Titan. The next Titan will make use of a 5.0-liter, turbodiesel V8 from Cummins, the Japanese company announced at the start of its Nissan 360 industry showcase.

Nissan's commitment to a fullsize pickup isn't really open for debate - it made waves back in April when it lured Fred Diaz, CEO of Chrysler's Ram pickup division, down to its Franklin, Tennessee headquarters. But this news of a monster turbodiesel is big. As of this writing, only Ram is set to offer a diesel engine in a non-heavy-duty pickup. Its 3.0-liter, EcoDiesel V6 will arrive in the Ram 1500 in the not-so-distant future, but that engine will still be a far cry from what's promised with this Cummins mill.

The 5.0-liter V8 is expected to generate well over 500 pound-feet of torque - likely closer to 550, based on the language in the press release - along with over 300 horsepower. Those figures aren't just a shot across the bow of Ford, Chevy, GMC and Ram, they're an opening broadside, meant to demonstrate Nissan's willingness with its next light-duty truck. As Diaz said, "There is no question that the new Titan will turn heads, and with the available Cummins 5.0-liter V8 turbodiesel, we expect to win new fans and attract buyers looking for this unique configuration."

The turbodiesel engine in the next Titan will be built at Cummins' Columbus Engine Plant, while the Titan itself will be built at the same Canton, Mississippi facility as the current truck. It's unclear which gasoline engines will be joining the Cummins turbodiesel. No launch date for the new truck has been announced, but you can read more in the press release below.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/20/nissan-titan-turbo-diesel-v8-cummins/

[FlatBlackCaddy]

That's great, but in a half ton they should be focusing on "base V8" torque and compact truck 4 cylinder fuel economy. A 5-600fl lb diesel in a half ton frame sacrifices mileage and is stuck in a frame that can't utilize it's power.

A good step when it comes to more diesels in trucks, but a bad move(IMO) for the half ton titan. A 4.0(ish) v8(or6) with 3-400 lb ft, a 7-8K tow rating and 30MPG on the highway would be a show stealer.

[Mustangfan2003]

I wonder if Cummins is building this engine for the medium duty market?  I think International still offers the 7.3 for their medium duty trucks.  Anyways, this engine seems more like it may be a better fit for a base diesel in the 2500 or 3500 range.  GM was going to make a 4.5 Duramax for their half ton trucks and suvs now maybe they will consider bringing it back.  Also, Ford was going to use the Land Rover diesel for their half tons but I don't think they build engines for them anymore. 

[GoCougs]

Hmmm. No Japanese diesel - LOTS of diesel manufacturers over there. My guess is they want the Cummins name to carry the day; or they simply want/need to source all parts domestically. But sakes alive that's gonna be one expensive truck - much more so than the competition. I think it will flop but then again I was wrong about Ecoboost V6 (I WAS right though that MPG is no better than the V8 competition and that reliability hasn't been great).

[veeman]

the silverado and f-150 have a lot of brand loyalty.  the ram is beginning to as well.  i don't think the tundra never took off because it was a subpar truck.  the tundra transmission, if I remember correctly, was better than those of the big three and it wasn't a styling thing either. 

i think nissan needs to work on its styling more than anything else.  the dodge ram became a player in 1994 when they styled it to look like a big rig.  before that it was largely an afterthought.   

who right now thinks the titan looks really cool?  it's forgettable.  putting a big rig diesel isn't going to get people to jump.  I've heard actually that they won't put a plow on a diesel civilian half ton because the engine is too powerful and will destroy the frame of the truck for the amount of snow it can push.  this might be bullshit, but i remember some tow truck guy telling me that. 

[MX793]

the silverado and f-150 have a lot of brand loyalty.  the ram is beginning to as well.  i don't think the tundra never took off because it was a subpar truck.  the tundra transmission, if I remember correctly, was better than those of the big three and it wasn't a styling thing either. 

i think nissan needs to work on its styling more than anything else.  the dodge ram became a player in 1994 when they styled it to look like a big rig.  before that it was largely an afterthought.   

who right now thinks the titan looks really cool?  it's forgettable.  putting a big rig diesel isn't going to get people to jump.  I've heard actually that they won't put a plow on a diesel civilian half ton because the engine is too powerful and will destroy the frame of the truck for the amount of snow it can push.  this might be bullshit, but i remember some tow truck guy telling me that. 

Dodge/Ram has nearly as much brand loyalty as Ford or Chevy.  And it might be a local phenomenon, but I see quite a few late model Tundras running around.  Not sure the owners are as dyed-in-the-wool Toyota-faithful as a lot of the Ford/Chevy/Ram buyers, but it certainly seems like a pretty popular truck.  Titans... not so much.

[veeman]

in 2012 tundra had 10% of the us half-ton pick-up market.  i thought it would be lower than that.  not too shabby (96,292).  the titan sold 18,064.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02/who-sold-the-most-half-tons-in-2012.html

[TBR]

the silverado and f-150 have a lot of brand loyalty.  the ram is beginning to as well.  i don't think the tundra never took off because it was a subpar truck.  the tundra transmission, if I remember correctly, was better than those of the big three and it wasn't a styling thing either. 

i think nissan needs to work on its styling more than anything else.  the dodge ram became a player in 1994 when they styled it to look like a big rig.  before that it was largely an afterthought.   

who right now thinks the titan looks really cool?  it's forgettable.  putting a big rig diesel isn't going to get people to jump.  I've heard actually that they won't put a plow on a diesel civilian half ton because the engine is too powerful and will destroy the frame of the truck for the amount of snow it can push.  this might be bullshit, but i remember some tow truck guy telling me that. 

The Titan was pretty fresh and aggressive when it first launched, but that was about ten years ago.

[GoCougs]

the silverado and f-150 have a lot of brand loyalty.  the ram is beginning to as well.  i don't think the tundra never took off because it was a subpar truck.  the tundra transmission, if I remember correctly, was better than those of the big three and it wasn't a styling thing either. 

i think nissan needs to work on its styling more than anything else.  the dodge ram became a player in 1994 when they styled it to look like a big rig.  before that it was largely an afterthought.   

who right now thinks the titan looks really cool?  it's forgettable.  putting a big rig diesel isn't going to get people to jump.  I've heard actually that they won't put a plow on a diesel civilian half ton because the engine is too powerful and will destroy the frame of the truck for the amount of snow it can push.  this might be bullshit, but i remember some tow truck guy telling me that. 

Not so sure about diesel plowing being too much for a half-ton, at least those of today. Half-tons with their largest/best gas engine (~400 hp) already churn out ~400-440 lb-ft. It's gonna be gearing and traction that will cause the problem not engine torque. I'm sure Nissan will beef up the truck if need be (though the did botch it hugely with the current Titan by using a Dana 44 for the rear diff (that is historically either a rear car diff or a front truck diff)).

[Mustangfan2003]

Well they have put diesels in half ton trucks before, but they weren't really powerful.  You could get a 6.2 diesel in a GM half ton in the 80s and early 90s.  The Ram 1500 will have a 3.0 V6 diesel and like I said Ford and GM were going to use V8 diesels until the plans got scraped.  I wonder what happened with Nissan and Cummins developing a 4 cylinder diesel?

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/30/cummins-developing-28-mpg-2-8-liter-4-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan/

[giant_mtb]

That big of a diesel in a mid size truck? What the fuck. Do they use their trucks?

[GoCougs]

That big of a diesel in a mid size truck? What the fuck. Do they use their trucks?

That's why I think it won't sell well, even beyond the huge markup (diesel is a ~$7k premium for the heavy duty trucks).

Most who buy diesel heavy duty pickups don't use them anywhere near capacity - it's an ego/entitlement thing - those big garish monstrosities + diesel "power" are a match made in redneck heaven. Half-tons don't have the garish credentials nullifying to a great extent the attractiveness of diesel.

[SVT666]

That's great, but in a half ton they should be focusing on "base V8" torque and compact truck 4 cylinder fuel economy. A 5-600fl lb diesel in a half ton frame sacrifices mileage and is stuck in a frame that can't utilize it's power.

A good step when it comes to more diesels in trucks, but a bad move(IMO) for the half ton titan. A 4.0(ish) v8(or6) with 3-400 lb ft, a 7-8K tow rating and 30MPG on the highway would be a show stealer.

Half tons are at 11,000 lbs now.

[Mustangfan2003]

That's why I think it won't sell well, even beyond the huge markup (diesel is a ~$7k premium for the heavy duty trucks).

Most who buy diesel heavy duty pickups don't use them anywhere near capacity - it's an ego/entitlement thing - those big garish monstrosities + diesel "power" are a match made in redneck heaven. Half-tons don't have the garish credentials nullifying to a great extent the attractiveness of diesel.

Hmm I see a lot of farmers, ranchers, and those in construction use diesel HD trucks.  A guy I used to work with had a F250 diesel and used to travel to horse shows.  He sold the truck and started using a half ton Silverado.  He said that truck could pull but he was afraid it was putting too much strain on the transmission. 

[giant_mtb]

That's why I think it won't sell well, even beyond the huge markup (diesel is a ~$7k premium for the heavy duty trucks).

Most who buy diesel heavy duty pickups don't use them anywhere near capacity - it's an ego/entitlement thing - those big garish monstrosities + diesel "power" are a match made in redneck heaven. Half-tons don't have the garish credentials nullifying to a great extent the attractiveness of diesel.

You don't live in an area where trucks actually get used. You're a snobby engineer.

[hotrodalex]

I live in an area where trucks actually get used and 3/4-1 ton diesels are still a redneck's wet dream.

[S204STi]

Hmmm. No Japanese diesel - LOTS of diesel manufacturers over there. My guess is they want the Cummins name to carry the day; or they simply want/need to source all parts domestically. But sakes alive that's gonna be one expensive truck - much more so than the competition. I think it will flop but then again I was wrong about Ecoboost V6 (I WAS right though that MPG is no better than the V8 competition and that reliability hasn't been great).

In the truck world, I've heard it said that the "ideal truck" would be a Ford with an Allison transmission, and a Cummins diesel in front of it.  The best traits of all three brands.  The Cummins name carries considerable cachet with truck buyers.

[GoCougs]

Jesus you guys, watch the strawmen. I was talking about these hugely powerful and capable diesel trucks, not trucks in general. Pray tell what did They do ~12 years ago prior to the proliferation of these dreadnaughts? Farmers, ranchers, laborers, even rednecks, got along just fine with smaller ~250 hp gassers. Most of these dreadnaughts get bought by people who don't need or use them - they do it for ego.

[GoCougs]

 

In the truck world, I've heard it said that the "ideal truck" would be a Ford with an Allison transmission, and a Cummins diesel in front of it.  The best traits of all three brands.  The Cummins name carries considerable cachet with truck buyers.

Cummins has also sorts of cachet but seems it's always been the worst performer, and IMO sounds absolutely awful with terrible NVH. I'd go with the Duramax if I had to choose a diesel; similar to the Cummins it's a medium-duty diesel designed and built but someone who knows how to build diesels (Isuzu). Ford is a lost cause.

[S204STi]

Cummins has also sorts of cachet but seems it's always been the worst performer, and IMO sounds absolutely awful with terrible NVH. I'd go with the Duramax if I had to choose a diesel; similar to the Cummins it's a medium-duty diesel designed and built but someone who knows how to build diesels (Isuzu). Ford is a lost cause.

The thing is, "best performer" doesn't mean shit if it's constantly in the shop, which is the reputation of the Duramax and Powerstroke.  It may not be the most powerful, but it generally runs a very long time with minimal repair cost.

[S204STi]

Jesus you guys, watch the strawmen. I was talking about these hugely powerful and capable diesel trucks, not trucks in general. Pray tell what did They do ~12 years ago prior to the proliferation of these dreadnaughts? Farmers, ranchers, laborers, even rednecks, got along just fine with smaller ~250 hp gassers. Most of these dreadnaughts get bought by people who don't need or use them - they do it for ego.

Not really.  For context, my sister who could give two shits about magazine reviews and raw power numbers went with diesel trucks starting about five years ago because she tows horse trailers.  Anyone who actually uses trucks for their intended purpose knows that diesel will always win that comparison.  She ultimately ended up with an 07 Ram diesel.  It's far and away a better "truck" than at least the Chevy, and probably if not for durability issues regarding the body and build quality, better than the Ford based on the motor alone.

[Soup DeVille]

Jesus you guys, watch the strawmen. I was talking about these hugely powerful and capable diesel trucks, not trucks in general. Pray tell what did They do ~12 years ago prior to the proliferation of these dreadnaughts? Farmers, ranchers, laborers, even rednecks, got along just fine with smaller ~250 hp gassers. Most of these dreadnaughts get bought by people who don't need or use them - they do it for ego.

And how many g37 owners will ever drive their cars at their full capability? Who needs a car that can go 140 MPH?

You'd get along just fine with a Yaris, but nobody is trying to tell you what to drive so you make your own ego-based choice.

[Mustangfan2003]

And how many g37 owners will ever drive their cars at their full capability? Who needs a car that can go 140 MPH?

You'd get along just fine with a Yaris, but nobody is trying to tell you what to drive so you make your own ego-based choice.

owned.  So the Ford diesel is a lost cause Cougs but it's still outsells the Ram and GM diesels combined? 

[GoCougs]

And how many g37 owners will ever drive their cars at their full capability? Who needs a car that can go 140 MPH?

You'd get along just fine with a Yaris, but nobody is trying to tell you what to drive so you make your own ego-based choice.

The Yaris can hit 110-120 mph, as can virtually any car built in the last 15 years. How many Yaris owners NEED an econobox that can do arrest-me speeds?

Strangely, the Yaris, nor any of these cars, are $50k+, 7,000lb+, 350hp+, 20'+ long battle wagons.

[AutobahnSHO]

The Yaris can hit 110-120 mph, as can virtually any car built in the last 15 years. How many Yaris owners NEED an econobox that can do arrest-me speeds?

Strangely, the Yaris, nor any of these cars, are $50k+, 7,000lb+, 350hp+, 20'+ long battle wagons.

Yaris can't pull what a truck can pull. People buy trucks (OFTENTIMES) to pull stuff. No one buys a Yaris to break a speed record, haul a family of 5, or to pull stuff....

[GoCougs]

Not really.  For context, my sister who could give two shits about magazine reviews and raw power numbers went with diesel trucks starting about five years ago because she tows horse trailers.  Anyone who actually uses trucks for their intended purpose knows that diesel will always win that comparison.  She ultimately ended up with an 07 Ram diesel.  It's far and away a better "truck" than at least the Chevy, and probably if not for durability issues regarding the body and build quality, better than the Ford based on the motor alone.

Not really interested in a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy debate . 

As has been proven in many tests (and my anecdotal experience) diesel's towing performance advantage only surfaces when loads get really heavy, which most people do not tow.

[GoCougs]

owned.  So the Ford diesel is a lost cause Cougs but it's still outsells the Ram and GM diesels combined? 

No, THIS is getting owned :

The Yaris can hit 110-120 mph, as can virtually any car built in the last 15 years. How many Yaris owners NEED an econobox that can do arrest-me speeds?

Strangely, the Yaris, nor any of these cars, are $50k+, 7,000lb+, 350hp+, 20'+ long battle wagons.

C'mon, man. The problems with the 6.0, 6.4 and 6.7 are legion.

[Tave]

The Cummins is a bit of a brute but runs smooth at load, moves at a healthy pace, and rarely fails. As a workhorse it sets the standard imo. It will be interesting to see how/if the company follows that approach with a V8.

[Soup DeVille]

The Yaris can hit 110-120 mph, as can virtually any car built in the last 15 years. How many Yaris owners NEED an econobox that can do arrest-me speeds?

Strangely, the Yaris, nor any of these cars, are $50k+, 7,000lb+, 350hp+, 20'+ long battle wagons.

The point is; people buy what they want, not what they need, or even what they can use.

Looking down on a guy because he buys more truck than he needs is exactly the same thing as looking down on a guy that buys a faster car than he can ever really use.

[GoCougs]

The point is; people buy what they want, not what they need, or even what they can use.

Looking down on a guy because he buys more truck than he needs is exactly the same thing as looking down on a guy that buys a faster car than he can ever really use.

Do you "look down on" the Yaris owner?

Of course my point is people buy want they want vs. what they need (mostly) and IMO people who want vs. need 7,000lb+, 350hp+, 20'+ long battle wagons are all sorts of comedy to me.