Motor Trend vid: GT-R NISMO vs Z06

[12,000 RPM]

2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. 2015 Nissan GT-R Nismo! - Head 2 Head Ep. 62

[SVT666]

I was NOT expecting that.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I really wish they would have done multiple timed successive laps in the Z06 and then posted that data to see if heat soak/poor tuning is indeed and issue and part of the reason the car didn't meet their expectations.

The GT-R has the big(er) advantage of putting power down early and getting out of the corners quicker, that is evident in the first half of side by side video when the cars are pretty much in sync on the earlier half of the track.

I don't know if this could be chalked up to some of the reported issues with the Z, hence my first comment which would have either confirmed or dismissed that issue for this comparison.

If the Z did suffer slower track times as the laps piled up then that would be the clear reason the Z failed to outperform the GT-R(as it should and probably could).

I believe the Z does have the tuning issue that many owners and aftermarket shops claim to have encountered, I also believe GM will fix it(eventually).

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I was NOT expecting that.

I kind of was.

[MX793]

I was a bit surprised the GTR had a faster lap time.  Less tire, less power, way more weight...

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I was a bit surprised the GTR had a faster lap time.  Less tire, less power, way more weight...

Removing the traction advantage it has, the outright acceleration times are probably about equal. Which leaves 2 cars, one with a much better ability to put all it's power down, sooner, coming out of a corner.

[Cookie Monster]

I wasn't surprised the GTR was faster around the track... just didn't expect a 1.5 second advantage. It was really clear that the Z06 couldn't put its power down early enough. Probst said it was oversteering too much so he probably had to take it easy on the throttle on exit.

[r0tor]

Hey, at least the vette didn't blow up.

Now where is the forums GM apologist...

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I wasn't surprised the GTR was faster around the track... just didn't expect a 1.5 second advantage. It was really clear that the Z06 couldn't put its power down early enough. Probst said it was oversteering too much so he probably had to take it easy on the throttle on exit.

[hotrodalex]

Kind of disappointing track performance, but the Corvette looks like a ton of fun. GT-R needs an update badly. Performance is still relevant but it's old looking.

I wonder if the Z06 would have benefited from a softer shock setting, especially in the rear. Might have helped with stability and the oversteer.

[hotrodalex]

I really wish they would have done multiple timed successive laps in the Z06 and then posted that data to see if heat soak/poor tuning is indeed and issue and part of the reason the car didn't meet their expectations.

I'm sure they did multiple laps before the hot lap and probably would have mentioned that if it occurred.

[GoCougs]

But did the Z06 reach the haters-had-to-learn-the-hard-way necessary 1,500 mile break-in period?

[MX793]

In the article, Pobst was quoted as saying that the Vette didn't feel like it was making all 650 hp...

[r0tor]

But did the Z06 reach the haters-had-to-learn-the-hard-way necessary 1,500 mile break-in period?

There is the apologist

[12,000 RPM]

Kind of disappointing track performance, but the Corvette looks like a ton of fun. GT-R needs an update badly. Performance is still relevant but it's old looking.

I wonder if the Z06 would have benefited from a softer shock setting, especially in the rear. Might have helped with stability and the oversteer.

Z06 doesnt have enough chassis/rear tire/aero for the power. No suspension setting can fix that and it will always be a PITA to get lap times from.

[r0tor]

Nah, it has the tires and aero... Same story as ever, not enough chassis for the power

[GoCougs]

In the article, Pobst was quoted as saying that the Vette didn't feel like it was making all 650 hp...

Look at the top speeds on the straights and the trap speed in the 1/4 mile - Z06 should be way out in front as the ZR1 was, but it's not.

M/T blaming the rear spoiler for power-robbing down force doesn't quite cut it.

[CALL_911]

I wasn't expecting that

[hotrodalex]

Z06 doesnt have enough chassis/rear tire/aero for the power. No suspension setting can fix that and it will always be a PITA to get lap times from.

Plenty of tire. Plenty of aero. So what's wrong with the chassis?

90% of what he said pointed to the rear suspension being too stiff for that track - oversteer and feeling unsettled. It's weird that he talked about how many settings you could change yet the only thing they did was take off the rear spoiler, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Plenty of tire. Plenty of aero. So what's wrong with the chassis?

90% of what he said pointed to the rear suspension being too stiff for that track - oversteer and feeling unsettled. It's weird that he talked about how many settings you could change yet the only thing they did was take off the rear spoiler, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

They removed the spoiler solely to see if the speeds on the straights improved(since on some it appeared to be about 10MPH slower than the GTR), not to see cull oversteer or increase stability(I would assume). It certainly was pointless since the difference on the straights was pretty clearly visible in the side by side lap comparison. The GTR came out of every corner faster, even in a few where the cornering speed(mid corner) was slower.

No big mystery here, don't know why they didn't attribute the difference to that and not "err it's the spoiler".

[hotrodalex]

They removed the spoiler solely to see if the speeds on the straights improved(since on some it appeared to be about 10MPH slower than the GTR), not to see cull oversteer or increase stability(I would assume). It certainly was pointless since the difference on the straights was pretty clearly visible in the side by side lap comparison. The GTR came out of every corner faster, even in a few where the cornering speed(mid corner) was slower.

No big mystery here, don't know why they didn't attribute the difference to that and not "err it's the spoiler".

Exactly, they tried to fix the end result and not the actual problem. Dummies. Soften up the rear a bit (and keep the Gurney flap!) and I think the straight speeds would increase.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Exactly, they tried to fix the end result and not the actual problem. Dummies. Soften up the rear a bit (and keep the Gurney flap!) and I think the straight speeds would increase.

They found that the spoiler did not help top speed on the straight(the car has plenty of HP to overcome that drag, IMO) but had increased oversteer due to removing the downforce that the spoiler provided(what a shocker).

Once again, I'd have liked to see a 10 lap warmup and then a 10 timed successive laps to see if this car is losing speed as the laps pile up. That could have been a factor in the vette's slower speeds. While the GTR would still maintain an exit speed advantage the diminished performance of the vette due to heat soak may have made the gap larger. The gtr certainly does use every ounce of power that it has, but if the Z is being handicapped by itself then it may have cheated(itself) out of a tie, marginal win(tenths of a second) or a close loss(once again, tenths).

[Cookie Monster]

Exactly, they tried to fix the end result and not the actual problem. Dummies. Soften up the rear a bit (and keep the Gurney flap!) and I think the straight speeds would increase.

Playing with the suspension (if it's possible to change damping rates) probably would have allowed it to accelerate earlier/harder out of corners, where it was losing the most speed. In general it had higher cornering speeds than the GTR, but the GTR was able to get back on the gas so much earlier that it didn't even matter that it couldn't take corners as quickly.

[GoCougs]

Exactly, they tried to fix the end result and not the actual problem. Dummies. Soften up the rear a bit (and keep the Gurney flap!) and I think the straight speeds would increase.

I'm guessing that was editing - surely they tried all sorts of settings.

[GoCougs]

Also, the GT-R now looks positively awful. The NISMO rims and clad body bits look so dated it's comical.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3601348-z06-at-cota-power-down-with-oil-temps-repost.html

Once again, would love to have seen more information from(lap times, straight speeds) a string of successive Z06 laps.

There is a good chance that this car(in the review) just fell apart after a half a dozen laps(probably generous as the above poster had it happen in less than 3).

[MexicoCityM3]

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3601348-z06-at-cota-power-down-with-oil-temps-repost.html

Once again, would love to have seen more information from(lap times, straight speeds) a string of successive Z06 laps.

There is a good chance that this car(in the review) just fell apart after a half a dozen laps(probably generous as the above poster had it happen in less than 3).

Fuck. Two sets of tires in 5 days of track driving. My tires last 5-6 days easily. I guess it's because 600hp > 340hp.

[12,000 RPM]

Playing with the suspension (if it's possible to change damping rates) probably would have allowed it to accelerate earlier/harder out of corners, where it was losing the most speed. In general it had higher cornering speeds than the GTR, but the GTR was able to get back on the gas so much earlier that it didn't even matter that it couldn't take corners as quickly.

Damping is only part of the suspension which is why I've found adjustable damping suspensions a little silly. Even if you nail the damping, if the springs are not the right rate or the sway bars aren't set up right the car just won't work. IDK what's going on with the diff but that could be an issue too since the problem is based around exits.

IMO though it's just too much damn power for the chassis... chassis has truckloads of grip well beyond the average performance car, and big rear meats.... but the chassis and engine just don't seem to be able to work together. I'm kind of wondering how this thing would have ran with the LS7. Would have shed a ton of weight and prob been not much slower around a track

[hotrodalex]

IMO though it's just too much damn power for the chassis... chassis has truckloads of grip well beyond the average performance car, and big rear meats.... but the chassis and engine just don't seem to be able to work together. I'm kind of wondering how this thing would have ran with the LS7. Would have shed a ton of weight and prob been not much slower around a track

Nah, there are lots of old pro-touring muscle cars making 600-700 hp and control it just fine. The figure-8 time shows the car can handle it.

Not an ideal suspension set up for that track, maybe combined with heat soak issues. Still did a damn good job. 1.5 seconds off a car costing $50k more is nothing to sneeze at.

[r0tor]

Old pro-touring cars making 600hp will not touch either of these cars unless they are flat out race modified and not street friendly