Ooof.... Alpha platform can't catch a break.

[12,000 RPM]

*TRIGGER ALERT*

*JALOPNIK LINK AHEAD*

*CONSIDER YOURSELVES WARNED*

http://jalopnik.com/brand-new-cadillac-coupes-and-sedans-are-so-cheap-its-n-1781877603

Some of these sit times are worse than motorcycles. Add the Camaro's disappointing sales :whistle: We will see what the XT5 does but I imagine it will sell like gangbusters.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Blah! That the regular for a 2 year old leftover.......

[MX793]

*TRIGGER ALERT*

*JALOPNIK LINK AHEAD*

*CONSIDER YOURSELVES WARNED*

http://jalopnik.com/brand-new-cadillac-coupes-and-sedans-are-so-cheap-its-n-1781877603

Some of these sit times are worse than motorcycles. Add the Camaro's disappointing sales :whistle: We will see what the XT5 does but I imagine it will sell like gangbusters.

Alpha platform sales have been really poor.  Mustang outsold all Alpha cars combined in May.

[2o6]

Did you want them to keep on selling the old ass Omega platform cars?

[12,000 RPM]

If it ain't broke and it wasn't. Or if it was, they didn't fix the issues with the Alpha, which is worse than if they had done nothing at all.

[Payman]

If it ain't broke and it wasn't. Or if it was, they didn't fix the issues with the Alpha, which is worse than if they had done nothing at all.

The Alpha is superior to the old platform in every way. The Cadillacs are suffering because people are moving to mid-lux crossovers and SUVs. The Camaro is suffering due to the mediocracy of the previous car, which is unfortunate because the Alpha Camaro itself is a fantastic car, gun turret windows notwithstanding.

[2o6]

Sigma (not omega, whoops) was fucking old and was showing its age,




Besides....as I've said time and fucking time again - Alpha (and Omega, which is a LWB wide version of Alpha) isn't totally all that new from the ground up. Both of them use parts from Zeta. It's a way to wrap up like five GM RWD Platforms into two, both of which are related to each other.

[MX793]

The Alpha is superior to the old platform in every way. The Cadillacs are suffering because people are moving to mid-lux crossovers and SUVs. The Camaro is suffering due to the mediocracy of the previous car, which is unfortunate because the Alpha Camaro itself is a fantastic car, gun turret windows notwithstanding.

I'm not sure mediocrity of the 5th gen is what's keeping the 6th gen down.  The 5th generation car was posting solid sales right to the end.  They sold nearly as many in 2015 as they did in 2010 when the car was fresh.  2014 was the second best sales year behind 2011.  If the car's mediocrity was keeping buyers away, sales of 2014 and 2015 models would have been way off the pace of the earlier years.

[Payman]

I'm not sure mediocrity of the 5th gen is what's keeping the 6th gen down.  The 5th generation car was posting solid sales right to the end.  They sold nearly as many in 2015 as they did in 2010 when the car was fresh.  2014 was the second best sales year behind 2011.  If the car's mediocrity was keeping buyers away, sales of 2014 and 2015 models would have been way off the pace of the earlier years.

I guess. Maybe it's because the new car looks too much like the old one, whereas the Mustang is significantly different from the previous one.

[veeman]

How many on this forum would take an ATS or CTS (non "V") version over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

Now how many on this forum would take the BMW equivalent of the ATS or CTS over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

I have a feeling the answer is few if any for the first question but many for the second question.

[Payman]

How many on this forum would take an ATS or CTS (non "V") version over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

Now how many on this forum would take the BMW equivalent of the ATS or CTS over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

I have a feeling the answer is few if any for the first question but many for the second question.

Yeah, I'd take an M235i or M2 over any of them.

[ifcar]

I guess. Maybe it's because the new car looks too much like the old one, whereas the Mustang is significantly different from the previous one.

Ironically, the Camaro's character changed more dramatically than the Mustang's; it just doesn't look it. I blame the facelift of the previous Camaro; GM stuck on the new face before it was ready to redesign the rest of the car. It would have been a suitably dramatic departure otherwise.

[SJ_GTI]

How many on this forum would take an ATS or CTS (non "V") version over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

Now how many on this forum would take the BMW equivalent of the ATS or CTS over a V8 Mustang or V8 Camaro?

I have a feeling the answer is few if any for the first question but many for the second question.

I'd have to drive them to be sure, but I would give the Camaro a good chance of being bought over an M2.

I like both the ATS and BMW. For me, the biggest advantage BMW has over Cadillac from a potential purchase POV is that they offer a manual transmission with the larger engine. With the ATS you can only get the manual with the 2.0T (or you have to step up to the much more expensive ATS-V).

[12,000 RPM]

Yea that is a pretty silly gaffe for what is supposed to be the king of the sports sedans. Not sure how much it would matter anyway, the 340i/Q50 400/S4 would culo blast an ATS 3.6 6MT. Camaro V6 is ~2-3 seconds slower to 100 and the ATS is heavier. GM got the engines all wrong. Base should have had the 2.0T, mid level should have had a detuned/decontented 3.6TT, V should have had the LT1. They made their bed though. Maybe they will fix it with a refresh.

[MrH]

culo blast?  You keep using this phrase expecting us to know what you're talking about...

[Raza]

culo blast?  You keep using this phrase expecting us to know what you're talking about...

It's not even on Urban Dictionary.  I don't know what it means either. 

[12,000 RPM]

Context clues and Google guys. Actually I would not recommend googling "culo".

[Rich]

I'd seriously consider a RWD V6 ATS w/stick if it was available.  If I could get it without any infotainment I'd "culo blast" something or other. 

steering feedback, driving sensations, throttle linearity/response, and engine sound mean a lot to me. The Camaro V6 seems really good to me, and if I could get it with 2 more doors, better visibility, and nicer interior, I'm all for it.

[Raza]

Context clues and Google guys. Actually I would not recommend googling "culo".

Ass blast?

[SJ_GTI]

Yea that is a pretty silly gaffe for what is supposed to be the king of the sports sedans. Not sure how much it would matter anyway, the 340i/Q50 400/S4 would culo blast an ATS 3.6 6MT. Camaro V6 is ~2-3 seconds slower to 100 and the ATS is heavier. GM got the engines all wrong. Base should have had the 2.0T, mid level should have had a detuned/decontented 3.6TT, V should have had the LT1. They made their bed though. Maybe they will fix it with a refresh.

I'd love to try out a ATS V6 with a stick shift, FWIW. I think it probably would be a bit slower than my car, but I think its very possible I would prefer going back to a normally aspirated car.

The Chevy SS is an interesting car with its (old) V8 and a stick shift, but since I consider my current car a little too big for my own personal taste (ATS and 3-series are both smaller) I don't think I could see myself getting something even bigger.

[Raza]

I am a fan of the ATS's looks, but now the XE has become the car in the class that has my eye.

[12,000 RPM]

I'd love to try out a ATS V6 with a stick shift, FWIW. I think it probably would be a bit slower than my car, but I think its very possible I would prefer going back to a normally aspirated car.

The Chevy SS is an interesting car with its (old) V8 and a stick shift, but since I consider my current car a little too big for my own personal taste (ATS and 3-series are both smaller) I don't think I could see myself getting something even bigger.

They need to make a sedan version of the 2 series. It's the same exact size as an E46 coupe and pretty much the perfect size period. But that's a whole other discussion.

NA is kind of dying Only ones left are the Caddy and the Lexus I think. And the Lexus has its own issues

[CALL_911]

I'm not sure mediocrity of the 5th gen is what's keeping the 6th gen down.  The 5th generation car was posting solid sales right to the end.  They sold nearly as many in 2015 as they did in 2010 when the car was fresh.  2014 was the second best sales year behind 2011.  If the car's mediocrity was keeping buyers away, sales of 2014 and 2015 models would have been way off the pace of the earlier years.

I don't think the 5th gen was mediocre at all. I think the only thing keeping the 6th gen (which is one of my favorite cars on the market today) down is the fact that it's around $5k more than a comparable Mustang.

[CALL_911]

I'd love to try out a ATS V6 with a stick shift, FWIW. I think it probably would be a bit slower than my car, but I think its very possible I would prefer going back to a normally aspirated car.

The Chevy SS is an interesting car with its (old) V8 and a stick shift, but since I consider my current car a little too big for my own personal taste (ATS and 3-series are both smaller) I don't think I could see myself getting something even bigger.

I don't think they make an ATS 3.6 6MT.

[2o6]

The 2-series is tight inside.


I prefer the 4 series.

[GoCougs]

The 5th gen Camaro mediocre? Nah. It redefined the segment let alone way outselling the competition. More often than not since 1967, the Camaro has been the better car than the Mustang, but in general Americans still bought a lot more Mustangs. These days the Camaro is so far out in front (including price) its pretty much defined its own segment, but that doesn't necessary mean sales success. Also, the styling isn't as big a departure from the 5th gen, unlike the new Mustang.

Sure the CTS-V is best in class by a long shot, but few are going to pay $85k+ for it. Cadillac got too aggressive on pricing. It's still well away selling product at BMW/MB/Audi price points and make sales headway.

[veeman]

Somehow I feel that domestic sports cars, at least from an American's perspective, should be a bit raw and untamed without luxurious frivolity.  The Dodge Viper was the epitome of this.  Americans don't want a domestic luxury sports sedan. 

It's the same with motorcycles.  You want sporty get a Japanese crotch rocket or Ducati or BMW.  You want a big loud cruiser get an American Harley or Indian.

[12,000 RPM]

More often than not since 1967, the Camaro has been the better car than the Mustang, but in general Americans still bought a lot more Mustangs.

Camaro has had the edge in performance, but the Rustang has always been the better car in everything outside of performance, which is still critical for something that does street duty. For anything less than the SS, unless you absolutely need the cheesy image the Camaro presents I'm thinking a Genesis Coupe or 370Z will yield similar or better performance with more practicality & visibility. All the performance in the world is useless if you can't place the car on the road.

[SJ_GTI]

I don't think they make an ATS 3.6 6MT.

They don't, that was kind of my point. 

In other words I'd love to drive that combo, but it doesn't exist so I cannot do it.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Camaro has had the edge in performance, but the Rustang has always been the better car in everything outside of performance, which is still critical for something that does street duty. For anything less than the SS, unless you absolutely need the cheesy image the Camaro presents I'm thinking a Genesis Coupe or 370Z will yield similar or better performance with more practicality & visibility. All the performance in the world is useless if you can't place the car on the road.

No way in hell are either of those more practical than the Camaro. We can call it a wash (especially since the Z has no rear seats) but they're def not better!