Lexus ES

[TBR]

What you apparantly don't seem to understand is that tolerable and comfortable don't mean the same thing, therefore, of course, uncomfortable and intolerable don't mean the same thing either.

Anyone should be able to tolerate uncomfort, it takes a lot for something to truly intolerable.

[ifcar]

I have higher standards than you. The way I see it, it's not whether you can physically tolerate a seat (there's always a way you can arrange your body into one, I've fit (solo, I sat rather sideways) in an SC430 pocketbook-holder with seatbelts, but whether there is a good reason to tolerate discomfort on the vehicle.

There's a good reason, for example, that there is not a comfortable rear seat on a Ford Mustang. There is no reason to tolerate discomfort of any degree on a sedan as large as the LaCrosse, and I would thus consider it intolerable.  

[TBR]

But that would be very inaccurate.  The meanings of words don't change no matter how big the car is.

[ifcar]

I'm describing my standards. The LaCrosse has an intolerable rear seat for a large family sedan. If that rear seat were in something like an SC430, then it would be more than acceptable considering the alternative.

As I said, it's nearly impossibly to find a rear seat that is truly "intolerable". So each person must come up with their own standards, or they end up praising everything.  

[Raza]

I've never seen Ifcar swear before.

[TBR]

I'm describing my standards. The LaCrosse has an intolerable rear seat for a large family sedan. If that rear seat were in something like an SC430, then it would be more than acceptable considering the alternative.

As I said, it's nearly impossibly to find a rear seat that is truly "intolerable". So each person must come up with their own standards, or they end up praising everything.

A seat is intolerable because it is intolerable, not because the seats of its competitors are more tolerable. It is a definite word, its meaning never changes.

If you want to say that the Lacrosse's seat is uncomfortable that is one thing, but it isn't intolerable unless it is truly intolerable, which it isn't.  

[mazda6er]

I've never seen Ifcar swear before.

No fucking kidding. I bet he has a TBR voodoo doll, or is at least in the process of making one. (note: that wasn't really supposed to be funny.)

[ifcar]

I'm describing my standards. The LaCrosse has an intolerable rear seat for a large family sedan. If that rear seat were in something like an SC430, then it would be more than acceptable considering the alternative.

As I said, it's nearly impossibly to find a rear seat that is truly "intolerable". So each person must come up with their own standards, or they end up praising everything.

A seat is intolerable because it is intolerable, not because the seats of its competitors are more tolerable. It is a definite word, its meaning never changes.

If you want to say that the Lacrosse's seat is uncomfortable that is one thing, but it isn't intolerable unless it is truly intolerable, which it isn't.

Then it that case, there isn't a current car I've been in with an intolerable seat. I can tolerate sitting sideways on the floor with my chin between my knees, I just shouldn't have to.  

[TBR]

Fine then, as long as you recognize that the Lacrosse doesn't have an intolerable rear seat, which is, therefore, passable which means that even if you need to carry more than two people the Lacrosse is still a better car which means I am right.

This can get confusing.

[ifcar]

No, it doesn't. Even if we were to agree that it had a tolerable rear seat, why would that make it a better car?

[TBR]

Because it is better in other ways (something that the wording of your original statement implied that you agreed with).

It handles better, has a better controlled ride without harshness, has more power, and is quite a bit cheaper.

[ifcar]

And the ES330 is quieter, has a softer ride, has more rear seat room, has more available features, and has a nicer interior.

It's all in priorities.

[J86]

you two never cease to amaze...

[mazda6er]

The best part is they swap recipes and crochet mittens for one another when they're finished.  

[TBR]

And the ES330 is quieter, has a softer ride, has more rear seat room, has more available features, and has a nicer interior.

It's all in priorities.

A softer ride isn't an advantage when it results in body motions that could induce sea-sickness (as I alluded to in a previous post) and when the competitor in question has a comfortable ride. I believe the only feature that the ES330 has that the Lacrosse doesn't is nav, which I have heard is coming for the Buick. Additionally, I prefer the Lacrosses interior and seem to recall that the Lacrosse had remarkably low dB numbers when C/D tested it (unfortunately, all of my magazines are packed ).

[ifcar]

Some people (I do know them) would rather have a floaty soft ride than a firmer but more-controlled one. And the ES has a lot more than just a nav, as a luxury-branded vehicle it has the luxury accessories of one. Extras like rain-sensing wipers, cooled front seats, an adaptive suspension.

I'll look up the C/D recorded noise levels of the ES300 and LaCrosse, if you're interested. (I am, a little.)

[TBR]

Go ahead.

[ifcar]

Idle:
ES300: 39 dBA
LaCrosse 3.6: 40 dBA

Full-throttle acceleration:
ES: 69 dBA
LaCrosse: 74 dBA

70-mph cruising:
ES: 66 dBA
LaCrosse: 67 dBA

70-mph coasting:
ES: 65 dBA
LaCrosse: Not published

[TBR]

So the only time a difference would be noticeable is when you are accelerating, a time at which I would prefer to hear the engine.

[ifcar]

Remember that the ES has recieved upgrades like a different engine since then, C/D just never reviewed an ES330.

And not everyone likes to hear their engine during acceleration.

[SaltyDog]

I've been in the back seat.  Even laid down in it.  It is quite comfortable and while not huge, plenty roomy.  Very comfortably for my bum too.  And I'm a big feller at 6'1".

[ifcar]

All-New Fifth-Generation 2007 Lexus ES Sedan Redefines Entry Luxury Segment
Related Media

02/08/2006 Chicago
The all-new 2007 Lexus ES 350 made its public debut today at the Chicago Auto Show. The all-new, fully redesigned ES marks the fourth Lexus sedan to benefit from the L-finesse design language. Going on sale in late April, the fifth-generation ES improves upon every level of comfort, safety, performance and craftsmanship in the elegant five-passenger sedan.

"We believe the newly revamped ES 350 is better in virtually every way than our original LS flagship sedan," said Lexus Group Vice President and General Manager Bob Carter. "It's faster, quieter and more powerful than the first LS that redefined the prestige luxury segment in the early 1990s."

2007 ES Marks Complete Redesign of All Lexus Sedans
From a styling standpoint, the ES marks the latest Lexus sedan to receive a complete redesign emphasizing a more sculptural direction, one that now reveals a family resemblance across the entire passenger car lineup. With an over two-inch longer wheelbase and more than an inch wider track, the ES has a more confident stance. A long hood, pulled-back cabin and short rear deck are characteristic of the new L-finesse design theme, recalling classic sports car proportions with a contemporary look unique to all new-generation Lexus sedans.

The creation of a spatial feeling in the passenger compartment is central to the new Lexus design direction. Without increasing the overall exterior length, engineers were able to increase rear legroom while maintaining the already roomy driver and front-passenger compartment.

The interior of the new ES introduces a new level of craftsmanship as well. Premium wood, polished metal and leather accents provide a level of luxury never before seen in the entry luxury segment. Everything inside the ES is designed and styled to create a comfortable and harmonious interaction, with touchpoints that convey quality and refinement. The roomy, luxurious cabin is complemented by intelligently designed displays and controls to make driving both simple and pleasurable.
Bright, clear Optitron gauges combined with smartly integrated metallic and authentic brown walnut wood trim help create a luxurious, elegant ambience.

Powerful Technology for New V6
The ES 350's 3.5-liter V6 engine delivers 272 horsepower and 254 lb.-ft. of torque, resulting in an estimated zero-to-60 mph time of 6.8 seconds, substantially quicker than the model it replaces. The highly sophisticated engine uses electronically controlled sequential fuel injection, which optimizes the fuel mixture and creates a precise burn, higher output and lower emissions to aid drivability. The result is a substantial improvement in engine efficiency with increased power and improved fuel economy.

The engine also benefits from reduced internal friction via chain-driven camshafts and roller-rocker arms that serve to increase efficiency. Aluminum heads and cylinder blocks feature special cast-in "spiny" cylinder liners to improve liner stability and cooling by increasing surface contact area with the cylinder head.

The new ES comes standard with dual exhaust, which reduces exhaust backpressure at high rpm. Extensive use of stainless steel in the exhaust system minimizes weight and improves durability. The integration of these technologies contributes to segment-leading efficiency with the ES 350 obtaining a manufacturer-estimated combined fuel consumption of 25 mpg (21 mpg city/30 mpg highway) and an expected Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle II (ULEV II) certification.

Six-Speed Transmission
The front-wheel drive ES 350 features a six-speed automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i) and sequential shift. The low-friction, high-efficiency gear train is lighter and more compact than the previous generation 5-speed transmission with 20 percent fewer parts and 24 percent fewer hydraulic controls. Gear ratios are carefully matched to both engine horsepower and torque characteristics to provide very smooth yet responsive shifts for improved drivability.


New Intelligent Luxury
In addition to a new look and feel, the new ES also improves upon the increasingly complex nature of automotive technology. The ES offers numerous standard features such as SmartAccess keyless entry and a new push-to-start ignition system that allows drivers to enter and start the vehicle without removing the access fob from their pocket or purse.

Lexus' craftsmanship and renowned attention to detail provide true luxury by design. Dual-zone automatic climate control and 10-way power front seats, with available memory, highlight the front cabin. The supportive standard cloth seats are also available in leather and extra-soft upgraded perforated leather for additional comfort.

The three-spoke steering wheel features easy-to-use controls for the audio system, trip computer and multi-information display in the speedometer. It also adds a voice control switch for the available Bluetooth? navigation and features. An auto-dimming rearview mirror with an integrated digital compass is standard, as are heated exterior mirrors.

Additional standard luxury features include a sliding center console, a power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, a one-touch power moonroof and an illuminated entry system that lights the exterior with puddle lamps and the interior cabin footwells.

Luxury extends to the smallest details in the new ES, from illuminated front cup holders to an interior LED soft-lighting system that provides just the right amount of light where driver and passengers need it most. And the ES lends extra peace of mind with the integrated Homelink? transmitter that can control a variety of compatible home security devices and systems.

Advanced Safety Features
New standard safety features include Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and Traction Control (TRAC), an electronic traction-control system that uses both throttle and brake intervention to help control wheel spin.

In addition, the new ES provides eight standard airbags; 10 with the optional rear-seat side airbags. For 2007, the ES gains new knee airbags for the driver and front passenger as well as a twin-chamber front passenger airbag. Side-curtain airbags coupled with front seat?mounted airbags and the optional rear-seat side airbags are designed to help offer additional crash energy management for the front and rear seat occupants.

The Supplemental Restraint System in the new ES also includes variable-force front airbags for both driver and front passenger. Sensors determine the severity of the accident and, in turn, the force with which to deploy the front airbags, helping to provide an appropriate level of occupant restraint. Rear-seat side airbags are offered optionally.

The ES 350 includes the safety of several visibility-enhancing technologies. The front side windows feature a water-repellant surface that helps to bead rainwater. A rear back-up camera, part of the available navigation package, is mounted near the top of the license plate surround and projects a color image of what the camera lens can detect behind the vehicle onto the navigation screen whenever the vehicle is in reverse.
In addition, the ES provides the first-ever intelligent Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS) that allows both right and left front headlamp bulbs to swivel at the same time to help illuminate a turn or curve as the driver steers into it.

Luxury Alive in the Details
For the first time, Lexus offers an optional panorama glass roof on the ES 350 creating an expansive feeling of openness for interior passengers. The glass roof extends over the entire passenger cabin providing a fixed skylight for rear passengers and a sliding sunroof for front passengers. A manual interior shade is provided for the front and rear passenger compartments. The frameless design allows for significantly tighter gaps versus those provided by other manufacturers and, with no visible gaskets, contributes to its sleek appearance and efficient aerodynamics.

Optional ventilated front seats and an available power rear window sunshade work in concert with the standard dual-zone climate control that filters the air to keep occupants comfortable. A dual-zone automatic climate control allows driver and front passenger to customize interior temperatures, while rear passengers enjoy their own A/C vents.

The optional and newly upgraded fifth-generation navigation system offers eight million points of interest (POI). The multi-information display makes key information readily available and easy to see. These and other features available on the new ES, such as semi-aniline leather, High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps, intelligent Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS), Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, heated/ventilated front seats and the panorama glass roof are normally found only in more expensive luxury cars.

Mind-Expanding Audio Systems
An enhanced standard premium audio system brings an in-dash, six-disc CD-changer,
MP3 player, iPod connectivity and an additional speaker to the 2007 ES. The system also includes an Automatic Sound Levelizer (ASL) to maintain consistent sound levels at varying vehicle speeds.

Music aficionados will appreciate the newest generation of the optional Mark Levinson audio system in the new ES. Using a 7.1-channel speaker architecture, this leading-edge design uses 10 channels of amplification with a total of 300 watts at 0.1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) playing through 14 speakers to bring a major new dimension to automotive audio sound. The Mark Levinson audio also takes advantage of DVD audio and video technology, allowing users to play both conventional CDs and DVDs. DVD movies can be viewed on the color 7-inch touch screen when the vehicle is parked.

The all-new 2007 Lexus ES goes on sale late April. Although prices have not been finalized, it will represent the best value in the entry luxury segment.



More pics on C/D. I personally think the exterior looks great, but I don't care for the ovoid center stack integration.

[MrEddy]

Clearly me and Lexus are not destined to get along. Bland and inoffensive spring to mind. It's a bit of a 'meh' car to me. I prefer something that makes a statement. Any statement. But I'm not exactly its target market I suppose.

I'm sure it'll be very quiet and comfortable and have lots of nice features as well as being reliable.

Oh well, at least it looks better than the Camry.

[J86]

rain sensing wipers would piss me off...

[TBR]

Yes, apparantly now it is too difficult to  flick a little stalk right there beside the steering wheel.

[ifcar]

rain sensing wipers would piss me off...

Like automatic headlights, they can be set to be operated manually.  

[TBR]

That's good.

[J86]

rain sensing wipers would piss me off...

Like automatic headlights, they can be set to be operated manually.

That's another pet peeve of mine- daytime headlights!  It looks retarded on a sunny day!  It's nearly impossible to get a dealer w/ the necessary computer shit to do it though for fear of liability, we ended up buying one of those reader thingies and doing it ourselves on the Saab.

[ifcar]

"reader thingies"

Do you mean a book?

"Your Honor, I move for a bad court thingie."


I don't have DRLs myself, but I typically keep my low beams on during the day in the philosophy that it can't hurt and that I won't forget to switch them on in bad weather.  

[J86]

"reader thingies"

Do you mean a book?

"Your Honor, I move for a bad court thingie."


I don't have DRLs myself, but I typically keep my low beams on during the day in the philosophy that it can't hurt and that I won't forget to switch them on in bad weather.

Nah, I meant one of them computer reader thingies that can deal with the electronic codes.  OBD-II reader maybe?