IFCAR Comparo: Ultra-Luxury Sedans

[BMWDave]

Let me put it this way, if I could afford to spend $80,000 on a car I would also be able to afford to spend $100,000 on a car simply because I wouldn't even think about that spending that much money on something like a car unless I had a rather ample supply.? So, if I was ever in this situation that $20,000 really wouldn't matter and I would just buy what I wanted, which would be the Maserati or Jaguar and certainly not the BMW.

I would also take the Maserati, price no concern.  But 20k is still a lot more money.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.

True, but for a person who is able to waste $80k on a car should have enough money to buy a $100k car. it's only $20k, not $100k more that you're spending.

Lets say he was only planning on spending 80K, because he needed that 20K for something else.  Its not just 5K more, its a significant chunk of the car's value that he would be paying extra.

[TBR]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.  

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

must be up to their eyes in debt.

They are. Every one of them.

At least they have chosen to live in a relatively modest neighborhood. Many people who aren't that much more successful are living in million-dollar monster homes next to the country club or on the waterfront, and are still driving luxury cars.

Idiots.

[BMWDave]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

must be up to their eyes in debt.

They are. Every one of them.

At least they have chosen to live in a relatively modest neighborhood. Many people who aren't that much more successful are living in million-dollar monster homes next to the country club or on the waterfront, and are still driving luxury cars.

Idiots.

One day it will catch up to them.

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.  

[Raghavan]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

must be up to their eyes in debt.

They are. Every one of them.

At least they have chosen to live in a relatively modest neighborhood. Many people who aren't that much more successful are living in million-dollar monster homes next to the country club or on the waterfront, and are still driving luxury cars.

Idiots.

they must be drowning in debt!
they're probably waiting for the bank to repossess their belongings too.  

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

must be up to their eyes in debt.

They are. Every one of them.

At least they have chosen to live in a relatively modest neighborhood. Many people who aren't that much more successful are living in million-dollar monster homes next to the country club or on the waterfront, and are still driving luxury cars.

Idiots.

One day it will catch up to them.

Most definitely.  

[Raghavan]

Let me put it this way, if I could afford to spend $80,000 on a car I would also be able to afford to spend $100,000 on a car simply because I wouldn't even think about that spending that much money on something like a car unless I had a rather ample supply.  So, if I was ever in this situation that $20,000 really wouldn't matter and I would just buy what I wanted, which would be the Maserati or Jaguar and certainly not the BMW.

I would also take the Maserati, price no concern.  But 20k is still a lot more money.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.

True, but for a person who is able to waste $80k on a car should have enough money to buy a $100k car. it's only $20k, not $100k more that you're spending.

Lets say he was only planning on spending 80K, because he needed that 20K for something else.  Its not just 5K more, its a significant chunk of the car's value that he would be paying extra.

usually buyers this high in the car buying range won't be nitpicking about $20k. if they like it, they'll buy it, and if the buyer really needed the $20k extra, then he really shouldn't be buying an $80k car, should he?

[BMWDave]

Let me put it this way, if I could afford to spend $80,000 on a car I would also be able to afford to spend $100,000 on a car simply because I wouldn't even think about that spending that much money on something like a car unless I had a rather ample supply.? So, if I was ever in this situation that $20,000 really wouldn't matter and I would just buy what I wanted, which would be the Maserati or Jaguar and certainly not the BMW.

I would also take the Maserati, price no concern.  But 20k is still a lot more money.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.

True, but for a person who is able to waste $80k on a car should have enough money to buy a $100k car. it's only $20k, not $100k more that you're spending.

Lets say he was only planning on spending 80K, because he needed that 20K for something else.  Its not just 5K more, its a significant chunk of the car's value that he would be paying extra.

usually buyers this high in the car buying range won't be nitpicking about $20k. if they like it, they'll buy it, and if the buyer really needed the $20k extra, then he really shouldn't be buying an $80k car, should he?

He shouldnt be buying the car, but as ifcar pointed out, not all luxury car buyers are responsible.

[TBR]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

[Raghavan]

Let me put it this way, if I could afford to spend $80,000 on a car I would also be able to afford to spend $100,000 on a car simply because I wouldn't even think about that spending that much money on something like a car unless I had a rather ample supply.  So, if I was ever in this situation that $20,000 really wouldn't matter and I would just buy what I wanted, which would be the Maserati or Jaguar and certainly not the BMW.

I would also take the Maserati, price no concern.  But 20k is still a lot more money.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.

True, but for a person who is able to waste $80k on a car should have enough money to buy a $100k car. it's only $20k, not $100k more that you're spending.

Lets say he was only planning on spending 80K, because he needed that 20K for something else.  Its not just 5K more, its a significant chunk of the car's value that he would be paying extra.

usually buyers this high in the car buying range won't be nitpicking about $20k. if they like it, they'll buy it, and if the buyer really needed the $20k extra, then he really shouldn't be buying an $80k car, should he?

He shouldnt be buying the car, but as ifcar pointed out, not all luxury car buyers are responsible.

so he can be a little less responsible and get another $20k.

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.  

[Catman]

I would buy the Audi if I could.  That car has some serious presence on the road. :o  

[Raghavan]

I would buy the Audi if I could.  That car has some serious presence on the road. :o

not as much as a maserati.  

[BMWDave]

I would buy the Audi if I could.  That car has some serious presence on the road. :o

not as much as a maserati.

The Audi has a LOT of presence, but the maserati has more, simply because its a Maserati.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I have to say that I disagree with the "its just 20K" arguement. Let's remember back to Marth Stewart, she was going to lose $160,000 (or so), some number that was not nearly going to damage her net-worth even a percentage point, and yet she still made sure that all her shares were sold. This is the same way to those buying the 80K car, 20K is still a pretty big number in their minds.  

[TBR]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?  

[BMWDave]

The BMW would have at least placed second, since it was better than the Audi in every respect but price.  Hell, it might have even placed first.  That leaves the Lexus in about third.

[TBR]

The BMW would have at least placed second, since it was better than the Audi in every respect but price.  Hell, it might have even placed first.  That leaves the Lexus in about third.

That is pretty much the same as my prediction.  

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?

If price wasn't a factor the order would probably be:

1. S430
2. 750i
3. LS430
4 & 5: A8 and XJ8, not sure which way
6. Phaeton
 

[TBR]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?

If price wasn't a factor the order would probably be:

1. S430
2. 750i
3. LS430
4 & 5: A8 and XJ8, not sure which way
6. Phaeton

Oh wow, I didn't figure the S430 would move much if at all (though I didn't actually read it, I pretty much just clicked through it and looked at the pros and cons).  

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?

If price wasn't a factor the order would probably be:

1. S430
2. 750i
3. LS430
4 & 5: A8 and XJ8, not sure which way
6. Phaeton

Oh wow, I didn't figure the S430 would move much if at all (though I didn't actually read it, I pretty much just clicked through it and looked at the pros and cons).

I've always liked the S-Class except for price. Great ride/handling combination, very comfortable seats, quite refined. And the new seven-speed auto helped acceleration and fuel economy this year.

[Raghavan]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?

If price wasn't a factor the order would probably be:

1. S430
2. 750i
3. LS430
4 & 5: A8 and XJ8, not sure which way
6. Phaeton

Oh wow, I didn't figure the S430 would move much if at all (though I didn't actually read it, I pretty much just clicked through it and looked at the pros and cons).

I've always liked the S-Class except for price. Great ride/handling combination, very comfortable seats, quite refined. And the new seven-speed auto helped acceleration and fuel economy this year.

it didnt feel old?

[ifcar]

Not all buyers only pay what they can actually afford, however. One of my neighbors has an S500, another has a brand new XJ8. They're not much better off than I am, and we live in the same neighborhood, but they're driving cars worth close to 100 times what mine is, and they're doing it all on credit.

First, the Maserati is my personal choice because it is worth $20,000 more to me and as I already explained if I was willing to spend $70,000 on one car I could probably afford pretty much any car because of my attitude towards money. Second, I don't even no how this got twisted into this argument as I never said the Quattroporte was better than the 750li (though, obviously enough, it is imho) I just said it was my choice.

I'm just pointing out that many luxury buyers don't have that sort of financial responsibility.

While that maybe I do have a hard time believing that a bank that is willing to loan someone $80k for a highly depreciating item like a vehicle won't loan that same person another $20k. And, the lack of finiancial responsibility of potential consumers shouldn't determine the result of a comparision test.

You're misunderstanding me. My point is that many people paying $70,000 for a car can't even afford that. Even they should be able to recognize that they can't go higher, and, judging by the LS430's popularity over the S-Class, many do not.

I get your point loud and clear, however, considering that the buyers of these cars should be able to purchase pretty much any car except for a handful of exotics (though, as you pointed out, that isn't necessarily the case, though it should be) I don't think that price should be weighed too heavily when comparing them. Just out of curiousity, where would the LS430 have placed if price wasn't a factor?

If price wasn't a factor the order would probably be:

1. S430
2. 750i
3. LS430
4 & 5: A8 and XJ8, not sure which way
6. Phaeton

Oh wow, I didn't figure the S430 would move much if at all (though I didn't actually read it, I pretty much just clicked through it and looked at the pros and cons).

I've always liked the S-Class except for price. Great ride/handling combination, very comfortable seats, quite refined. And the new seven-speed auto helped acceleration and fuel economy this year.

it didnt feel old?

"Feel old"?  

Try describing what exactly you mean.  

[BMWDave]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

[ifcar]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

Again, what is "feeling old"?

[Raghavan]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

Again, what is "feeling old"?

chassis flex, muted handling feedback, etc.

[ifcar]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

Again, what is "feeling old"?

chassis flex, muted handling feedback, etc.

Not sure what that would have to do with age, but no, nothing serious like that.  

[BMWDave]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

Again, what is "feeling old"?

chassis flex, muted handling feedback, etc.

If its a new car, then it shouldnt feel old, not matter when it came out.  The things you are describing come with usage of the car.

[TBR]

Being that its been around for a long time, hes asking you if it felt old compared to other cars.

Again, what is "feeling old"?

chassis flex, muted handling feedback, etc.

If its a new car, then it shouldnt feel old, not matter when it came out.  The things you are describing come with usage of the car.

Actually, older designs typically have weaker chassis(s) and are therefore more prone to flex. A lack of steering feel can develop over time as the various parts of the suspension get well worn, but it can also be present from the get go due to an outdated design. And, the biggest complaint I have heard about the S-class (besides price) that could at all be related to its age is its seating position? (don't recall ever hearing about chassis flex or poor steering feel)