Right now, Bree drives the 4Runner (2010, ~95k miles, purchased Dec 2009) and obviously I drive the M3 (2015, 17k miles, took delivery Oct 2014). She drives a lot more miles than I do, I'm guessing ~25k miles/yr vs my ~6k miles/yr. Her commute is 20-25 miles each way depending on route, mine is ~1.5 miles. We both like the 4Runner, she likes driving it but I feel like given the mileage is getting up there and how much more she commutes, it would make sense for her to drive something newer and more economical.
So we are considering getting something new for her, I'd drive the 4Runner and sell the M3. I'll address thoughts on selling the M3 below this post, as that's sort of a separate topic altogether. And of course we might not end up doing anything.
So criteria are basically something with enough space to fit a carseat and another child, as well as a stroller and sometimes two dogs (one large and one midget german shepherd), but at the same time is not something stupidly large for a single person to commute in alone. That said, she likes driving an SUV, so my inclination to look towards hatches or wagons didn't get much traction. Price, no hard limit but we are value conscious and sort of anchoring to the $30k range as that's where the options below end up well equipped and fit our needs, so anything above that range would need to offer something objective in return. 30+ highway mpg would be nice. Good reliability, safe, the typical mom shit.
To start out we test drove the Mazda CX-5 and Honda CRV. Based on reviews I had narrowed these two as the top of the shortlist. Reviewers tend to favor the CX-5 as the better "drivers car" of the two (to the extent a CUV can be), and I went in sort of hoping/expecting to prefer the CX-5, liked the looks better too going in. I did not drive either, she drove and I rode shotgun. Test drove the top trim of both (Grand Touring in the Mazda and Touring in the Honda) in FWD (don't really see a need for AWD). After looking at / test driving both back to back, we came away both thinking the CRV was the clear winner between the two. First the bad - CRV is not a great looking car by any stretch, some angles are better than others (front isn't bad at all and from the front actually prefer the CRV to the CX-5), and the OEM wheels on the upper trims are horrendous. There is turbo lag (which she noticed) and it's a CVT (she didn't seem to notice or care). And it's just, well, a boring choice. But from a packaging standpoint, it's pretty impressive ... interior space was excellent, significantly better than the CX-5, back seat room was surprisingly good for a "small" SUV (CX-5 rear seat wasn't bad, but clearly less spacious). Cargo capacity, w/ seats both up and down, was also excellent for a "small" SUV, less than the 4Runner but not by nearly as much as I expected, and way more than the CX-5. Interiors in both, for the price, was IMO very good to excellent. Most reviewers seem to give the nod to the CX-5 here, we both preferred the interior in the CRV. Materials on both were very good. CRV front seats look and felt great. Infotainment/tech in both seemed very good though we didn't play around with it much, CRV has Apple Carplay, the CX-5 does not but supposedly is getting it via firmware update at some point. I started w/ styling and will revisit, I went in preferring the CX-5 but the more I look at them, I do think the CX-5 looks like it's trying a little harder, both inside and out, and IMO some of the older Mazda SUV/CUVs on the road don't look too good to me, I feel like the CRV is more conservative and will age better and just sort of blends in. Resale and reliability I feel like Honda will be the better of the two. CX-5 is a bit cheaper, both are in the ~$30k range well equipped. There's a Honda service center that's like a mile from our house and walkable to my office which is nice. Gas mileage pretty good in both, better in the Honda (EPA 34mpg highway and reviews seem to confirm that in observed mpg).
Am I missing anything else we should look at? Again, she doesn't seem to want to consider a hatch or wagon which is the direction I would go if it were entirely up to me. We didn't look at the Rav4 as we had one as a rental a few months ago and both thought it was a piece of shit, from reviews it looks like the OEM tires may have contributed to that, but either way it's also significantly older and looks and feels it compared to the two above. The Highlander isn't bad, but as we'll be keeping the 4Runner I don't think we need to go up to that size category. Escape, also a bit dated and from reviews seems like we're not missing anything there. She doesn't want a Subaru, and Forrester reviews aren't good enough for me to feel like that's leaving out anything special. On the intro luxury options, meh I don't really see a lot there to justify spending more esp given the mainstreamers above seem to offer all the "luxury" she really wants in terms of interior comfort and materials and infotainment/tech. I don't really see what an X1 or F-Pace offers other than brand image, though admittedly haven't driven them, some of my comments on the M3 below will apply here as well. Also consider she drives ~25k miles/yr and I prefer to keep cars awhile, meaning this will conceivably be a car we keep for 150k miles or so and I really don't consider BMW, Jag, or Land Rover to be cars I'd want to own for 150k miles.
On buying used, I acknowledge the superior value but don't want to bother with it.
Flame suit on, I'll probably bet banned for this thread.
On selling the M3 ... I like the car, and at not quite 3 years would be significantly less than I normally keep cars (fuck, a taste of how H feels). But honestly the thing is completely wasted on me. I don't track my cars. My daily commute is 5 minutes through a residential neighborhood, half of which is brick streets. The rest of my driving, 99% of the time yields pretty close to zero opportunity for any sort of spirited driving - sitting in traffic, stoplight to stoplight, or best case highway cruising w/ cruise control on. When we go on longer trips where there might be an opportunity for more fun driving, we take the 4runner. Honestly the best part of owning the thing was picking it up and the drive through SC and NC then home. I just feel like owning a completely unutilized performance car is a waste, as boring as the vast majority of my driving is there's no point. So fuck it, sell the thing while it's still got a year of warranty left. KBB is ~$50k, not sure how realistic that is. Paid just over $70k IIRC (I think $72k).
Kevin has posted here a few times recently on the topic of hedonistic adaptation (or treadmill) when it comes to consumer purchases. I've been giving some thought to this myself the last couple years, and a luxury or high end car purchase is pretty much the definition of it. If you track your cars that's different IMO, similarly if I lived in an area w/ more opportunities for fun driving around me I'd feel different. But a monotonous drive through traffic is just as boring in a 400+hp, $70k M car as it is in a Honda Fit. At this point, I don't really see any value to it or really any high end car. I still like cars, still like watching/reading car reviews, still like driving when it's in a setting that's fun. I'd like to do a 2-3 day driving school and could see myself doing that once or twice a year (been saying that for years though and haven't done one). But for my daily putzing around town, to work and to the grocery store, I'm pretty much indifferent between taking the 4runner and the M3 most of time time. And IMO there's something to be said about having a car you don't feel like you have to baby - I'll run the 4runner through a commercial car wash without batting an eye, I'll hand the keys to the valet w/o cringing, if it gets dinged in a parking lot I don't care.
I like it, but I don't see myself missing it.
The CR-V is a master of functionality, no doubt about that, and it's not really terrible at anything either. But there are a few cute utes that are probably worth considering:
- 2018 Chevrolet Equinox. The CR-V is the better deal, gets better mileage and has more cargo room, but the Equinox feels upscale to me -- cushier, quieter, more stylish. There's also an available up-sized engine if the CR-V turbo lag is bothersome.
- 2018 VW Tiguan. A third-row seat, even a small one, can be a pretty useful piece of added functionality. Mileage and prices again will trail the CR-V, and it's not considered as fun to drive as the old one, but reviews have otherwise been pretty positive. (I haven't driven one of these yet, though.)
- 2017.5/2018 Nissan Rogue. It's like a better-executed take on the RAV4 -- still a fairly basic feel, but tons of space, smooth ride and simple controls, and with better steering, handling and gas mileage than the Toyota. It's a long shot, probably ruled out as too dull, but it's well-executed in its dullness.
About the M3, it does seem like it's not well-suited to your current conditions. More comfortable and stylish than a Honda Fit, sure, but surely frustrating to drive in those conditions. Maybe the savings from switching from M3 to CR-V will justify an affordable occasional-use fun car -- Miatas are great fun even in otherwise boring conditions, because you actually can flog the engine a bit and you get instantaneous steering response -- but otherwise your calculus seems spot-on.
I think you're shopping the wrong size to be hauling around two kids, their gear, and two dogs. Good luck fitting a stroller, baby bag, and two dogs in the cargo area of an Escape, CRV, or Rav4. :nutty:
My own thoughts: I like the Honda and the Mazda, both seem great vehicles.
You could 'downgrade' from the M to a Miata and enjoy the (short) drive and Miatas maintain value fairly well for down the road. Bank the rest to buy kids' bikes and eventually a starter car. :mrcool:
EDIT
this assumes you keep the 4Runner for family hauling, sell the M and buy Miata + CUV.
Miata would have to be a third car, not something I'm entertaining at this point. if I were to really miss having a fun car after awhile, maybe, but I don't see that happening.
On the size thing, she doesn't take the dogs with her on a daily basis. In the rare cases she needed both kids, a stroller, and both dogs at the same time, she could take the 4runner if needed, though I think that would all fit in the CRV (CX5 would be tight). Edit: I guess I did put that in the criteria, to clarify that's not a daily loadout and we can always switch cars when needed. Trying to balance having enough space while also not having her drive an Escalade 25 miles each way to teach yoga.
As much as an M fanboy that I am, I can't fault your thinking. It definitely seems a waste of resources.
I'd maybe look at CUV's a segment above if you like the luxuries and solidity of your M3. The incoming new X3 may be a great fit, even in 30i guise. Maybe you can get a good deal as a BMW returning customer.
Easy.
You take the 4Runner, wifey gets the M3. Problem solved.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 04, 2017, 10:15:57 AM
As much as an M fanboy that I am, I can't fault your thinking. It definitely seems a waste of resources.
I'd maybe look at CUV's a segment above if you like the luxuries and solidity of your M3. The incoming new X3 may be a great fit, even in 30i guise. Maybe you can get a good deal as a BMW returning customer.
X3 is nice but I imagine will be ~$50k optioned out, and doesn't really appeal to me for the same reasons as the others outlined above (ie if a $30k car meets our needs we have better uses for the incremental $20k). X3 also isn't something I feel super confident in if she'll be putting ~150k miles on it over 6-7 years. Gas mileage, tires, brakes, insurance etc plus off warranty repairs from a total cost of ownership standpoint over that time the Honda will crush it.
Quote from: ifcar on September 04, 2017, 09:18:00 AM
The CR-V is a master of functionality, no doubt about that, and it's not really terrible at anything either. But there are a few cute utes that are probably worth considering:
- 2018 Chevrolet Equinox. The CR-V is the better deal, gets better mileage and has more cargo room, but the Equinox feels upscale to me -- cushier, quieter, more stylish. There's also an available up-sized engine if the CR-V turbo lag is bothersome.
- 2018 VW Tiguan. A third-row seat, even a small one, can be a pretty useful piece of added functionality. Mileage and prices again will trail the CR-V, and it's not considered as fun to drive as the old one, but reviews have otherwise been pretty positive. (I haven't driven one of these yet, though.)
- 2017.5/2018 Nissan Rogue. It's like a better-executed take on the RAV4 -- still a fairly basic feel, but tons of space, smooth ride and simple controls, and with better steering, handling and gas mileage than the Toyota. It's a long shot, probably ruled out as too dull, but it's well-executed in its dullness.
About the M3, it does seem like it's not well-suited to your current conditions. More comfortable and stylish than a Honda Fit, sure, but surely frustrating to drive in those conditions. Maybe the savings from switching from M3 to CR-V will justify an affordable occasional-use fun car -- Miatas are great fun even in otherwise boring conditions, because you actually can flog the engine a bit and you get instantaneous steering response -- but otherwise your calculus seems spot-on.
Yeah, those you mention have some pros but overall don't appeal to me too much. For one, just in terms of reliability and resale value I like Honda a lot better than Chevy, VW, or Nissan. I don't find a third row in this class all that appealing.
Honda Fit comment was hyperbole, but still. Like I said for daily driving I'm pretty indifferent between the 4Runner and the Bimmer.
I think what you're saying is a good idea. The new CRV is really nice, and I'd just stick with the 4Runner if I were you. Personally, I would probably keep the M3 just because, but it's most likely more trouble than its worth.
Eh, tempting but no. If the conclusion is it's underutilized I'd rather get some money out of it, not pay to insure/maintain it, and hopefully sell it to someone who will use + appreciate it for what it is. Also, 2 car garage I'd like to stick to 2 cars.
If it was older and further into the depreciation curve and held more sentimental value, like the C6 did, would be more tempting but still not worth it IMO.
You don't remember how much you paid for a car you bought three years ago? And going from a loaded 4Runner to a CX-5 or the like and from an M3 to a Miata or the like? This is all very interesting. But there is value in slimming down one's life, no matter the how or the why that it seems to come about. But yes, fancy cars have very little if negative utility - it's mostly about the badge, even for fanbois.
CX-5 or the like is too small. You'll need to go for a Highlander or Pilot for the CUV/SUV. On the sporty side of things I'd never recommend a Miata - at least a GTI.
I know you said no wagons, but what about an Outback? I don't know what the driving position is like compared to the CRV but it has more ground clearance and is comparable in interior room to the CRV. Plus, Kevin really likes his.
I can't fault your thinking though I agree with giant- those things are gonna be stuffed to the gills with your kids, animals and stuff. Sad to say it may be worth looking at a 3 row belly dragger or *gasp* a minivan. She is already surrendering some cool; she may as well ditch all of it. The practicality will make life so much easier. That said I do like the new CR-V and a set of wheels/tires doesn't cost much in the grand scheme of things. But it's gonna be too small.
As for your car..... that is a bit of a bummer. My commute has some fun, so I can appreciate what the G has to offer. But if my commute sucked I would probably drive something like a Lexus ES or something. That was kind of my thinking when I sold the Z as my commute sucked then. Can't fault you at all. If you liked that experience you should just do those BMW Performance events or whatever they're called. Save your money and get something better suited for your life.
It will suck to open the garage and see something like an Accord EX where an M3 used to be though :( But that is not worth the $$$ at all.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 04, 2017, 11:53:59 AM
I know you said no wagons, but what about an Outback? I don't know what the driving position is like compared to the CRV but it has more ground clearance and is comparable in interior room to the CRV. Plus, Kevin really likes his.
It's nice, but it's more sedan-like. The car is physically higher, but the whole driving and seating position is more like the Legacy.
Yea if a CRV is too small an Outback is a complete no go. Don't prosthelyze :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 04, 2017, 12:18:32 PM
Yea if a CRV is too small an Outback is a complete no go. Don't prosthelyze :lol:
I'm not, the new ones are like a fucking SUV compared to mine/Cale's. :huh:
If it would be a rarity that she has to stuff the CUV (like if Lebowski is out of town with the 4Runner), then I guess it wouldn't be TOO big of a deal.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 04, 2017, 11:52:42 AM
You don't remember how much you paid for a car you bought three years ago?
Ballpark sure and is what I said. Why don't you enlighten us, surely you've got the exact figure in your file? We all know what great interest this is to you.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 04, 2017, 11:52:42 AM
And going from a loaded 4Runner to a CX-5 or the like and from an M3 to a Miata or the like? This is all very interesting. But there is value in slimming down one's life, no matter the how or the why that it seems to come about. But yes, fancy cars have very little if negative utility - it's mostly about the badge, even for fanbois.
CX-5 or the like is too small. You'll need to go for a Highlander or Pilot for the CUV/SUV. On the sporty side of things I'd never recommend a Miata - at least a GTI.
:confused:
You're even more confused than usual, I'm not considering a Miata.
Not sure what you are getting at w/ the going from a "fully loaded" 4Runner comment. If it's to imply some kind of downgrade, a "fully loaded" 2017 CX-5 or CRV has better interior materials, more content, miles better infotainment, quieter interior, and is overall more comfortable than a 2010 4Runner, loaded or not.
Don't need to go up to highlander or pilot size, I'm not against it if that's what she wants but it's not necessary.
At this price point I don't think you'll find a better all around or space efficient vehicle than the CR-V
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 04, 2017, 12:11:27 PM
I can't fault your thinking though I agree with giant- those things are gonna be stuffed to the gills with your kids, animals and stuff. Sad to say it may be worth looking at a 3 row belly dragger or *gasp* a minivan. She is already surrendering some cool; she may as well ditch all of it. The practicality will make life so much easier. That said I do like the new CR-V and a set of wheels/tires doesn't cost much in the grand scheme of things. But it's gonna be too small.
As for your car..... that is a bit of a bummer. My commute has some fun, so I can appreciate what the G has to offer. But if my commute sucked I would probably drive something like a Lexus ES or something. That was kind of my thinking when I sold the Z as my commute sucked then. Can't fault you at all. If you liked that experience you should just do those BMW Performance events or whatever they're called. Save your money and get something better suited for your life.
It will suck to open the garage and see something like an Accord EX where an M3 used to be though :( But that is not worth the $$$ at all.
She doesn't want a minivan and honestly we don't need something that size but maybe once a year and I'm fine renting for that (and in that case a highlander would be too small too). I'd look at outback wagon but she doesn't want one.
Re all the "wont have enough space" comments I'm talking about going from a 4Runner + 3-series to 4Runner + small SUV. It's an overall increase in space.
Ah yea seeing that now in the OP.... yea then it's an absolute no brainer. IF she wants the CR-V she must get the CR-V. Everything else is either overpriced or a needless compromise.
But you will be legally obligated to do 1 BMW AND 1 Porsche driving event annually to retain your enthusiast card. No exceptions :nono:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 04, 2017, 02:16:09 PM
Ah yea seeing that now in the OP.... yea then it's an absolute no brainer. IF she wants the CR-V she must get the CR-V. Everything else is either overpriced or a needless compromise.
But you will be legally obligated to do 1 BMW AND 1 Porsche driving event annually to retain your enthusiast card. No exceptions :nono:
She doesnt exactly love the CRV but it seems to be the best overall package to fit her/our needs esp taking value into consideration. We could also do nothing but i feel like the M3 is sort of wasted on me, we do need one large-ish (4Runner sized) vehicle in the household but seems it makes more sense for me to daily drive that since I drive much less. We each carry both keys and trade whenever we want.
What about the fancier CR-V: the RDX?
Eh, Acura dealership isn't really located conveniently (and I imagine can't service at Honda?). Not sure what it offers other than badge, esp considering we both thought the CRV interior was perfectly acceptable. Acuras today are just as ugly as hondas :lol:
You can take an (ordinary) Acura to a Honda dealership.
Fuck the RDX. Except for the V6, there's no benefit.
Barring the MDX, I don't get why anyone would buy an Acura over its equivalent Honda. Accord>TLX, CRV>RDX, Civic>>>ILX
Quote from: Laconian on September 04, 2017, 03:04:05 PM
What about the fancier CR-V: the RDX?
Fancier version of the old CR-V, that is.
Honestly Acura isn't a brand I give much thought to. It's been a long time since they've produced anything I'd buy over the comparable Honda. If the RDX was on the current CRV I guess it'd be worth a look, don't think I'd pay much of a premium for it though. Haven't been many recent hondas I'd buy though, for that matter.
I'd be looking at a Lincoln MKX/Ford Edge. Bit of extra room makes a big difference and still not oversized.
I don't see the point of having 2 SUVs in a place like Florida. Have 1 to take the dogs and keep a car for the family... Strollers are designed for trunks
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 04, 2017, 03:43:09 PM
Barring the MDX, I don't get why anyone would buy an Acura over its equivalent Honda. Accord>TLX, CRV>RDX, Civic>>>ILX
I prefer the RDX and TLX. RDX does 0-60 in the low 6s... that's like 1.5s faster. TLX looks a million times better than the Accords. I agree that the ILX is less than good, especially compared to the 10th gen Civic (looks notwithstanding)
Eh idk, RDX doesn't have a very "upmarket" interior imo. I was, on the other hand, very impressed by the new CRV I saw at the Honda dealer recently. Ditto the Civic.
Quote from: r0tor on September 04, 2017, 06:22:03 PM
I don't see the point of having 2 SUVs in a place like Florida. Have 1 to take the dogs and keep a car for the family... Strollers are designed for trunks
I don't really disagree with you, except she prefers driving an SUV. I guess I could sell the M3 and get a mainstreamer sedan for myself and she keeps driving the 4Runner, and I'd be fine with that, but we'd still have the significantly higher mileage driver in the gas guzzler SUV and one pushing 100k miles at that. A small SUV doesn't give up that much to a midsize sedan in terms of efficiency or cost of ownership, has more usable space, and is more inline with what she wants. Also, from a convenience factor it would be nice having either vehicle able to take the dogs.
From a purely optimized standpoint we'd have zero SUVs, something like a civic hatchback and a minivan. We're not quite to that point.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 04, 2017, 07:16:56 PM
Eh idk, RDX doesn't have a very "upmarket" interior imo. I was, on the other hand, very impressed by the new CRV I saw at the Honda dealer recently. Ditto the Civic.
Yeah, the new civic seems like a good car. Honda's product line was shit for years IMO, seems like they're finally getting it together. Even the ridgeline is less terrible.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 04, 2017, 08:08:39 PM
I don't really disagree with you, except she prefers driving an SUV. I guess I could sell the M3 and get a mainstreamer sedan for myself, and I'd be fine with that, but we'd still have the significantly higher mileage driver in the gas guzzler SUV and one pushing 100k miles at that. A small SUV doesn't give up that much to a midsize sedan in terms of efficiency or cost of ownership, has more usable space, and is more inline with what she wants. Also, from a convenience factor it would be nice having either vehicle able to take the dogs.
From a purely optimized standpoint we'd have zero SUVs, something like a civic hatchback and a minivan. We're not quite to that point.
Just dump the 4 Runner for a more highway worthy and fuel efficient SUV and keep the M and make it a point of finding time to take trips to have fun with it as a family - shrug-
Look into a bmw X1... Good size and fuel mileage
How about an electric? Both your commutes are easily within the range of most electrics. An electric should be cheap to maintain in the long run and they are fun to drive in your real life circumstance. You can get a super cheap lease on an i3.
Quote from: r0tor on September 04, 2017, 08:17:18 PM
Just dump the 4 Runner for a more highway worthy and fuel efficient SUV and keep the M and make it a point of finding time to take trips to have fun with it as a family - shrug-
Look into a bmw X1... Good size and fuel mileage
Yeah, not sure what that accomplishes, this is the complete opposite of where I'm going here.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 04, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
How about an electric? Both your commutes are easily within the range of most electrics. An electric should be cheap to maintain in the long run and they are fun to drive in your real life circumstance. You can get a super cheap lease on an i3.
i3 is tiny, and expensive. If volt or bolt were better looking and packaged differently, maybe, at the right price, but in current form not interested.
Big point here is I've (re)reached the conclusion that for the most part luxury/premium/high end cars simply aren't worth the cost and extra headache to me. "Buy more BMWs!" is not the answer.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 04, 2017, 08:56:25 PM
i3 is tiny, and expensive. If volt or bolt were better looking and packaged differently, maybe, at the right price, but in current form not interested.
Big point here is I've (re)reached the conclusion that for the most part luxury/premium/high end cars simply aren't worth the cost and extra headache to me. "Buy more BMWs!" is not the answer.
Hey, any electric would work. Personally, I'd get on the waitlist for a model 3. And specifically about the i3: you have the large 4runner. And look into those leases, it very likely has a lower TCO than the cars you are looking at.
Like this? https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2017-BMW-i3-with-Range-Extender.html
Not a lower cost of ownership (leases never are) and based on 10k miles/yr when she drives 25k. i3 also too small. Not interested in a lease. Definitely not interested in a tesla.
Quote from: r0tor on September 04, 2017, 08:17:18 PM
Just dump the 4 Runner for a more highway worthy and fuel efficient SUV and keep the M and make it a point of finding time to take trips to have fun with it as a family - shrug-
Look into a bmw X1... Good size and fuel mileage
Lol... X1, CR-V etc are not SUVs, they are CUVs/crossovers. Like you said, they are in FL so an SUV is pointless. I agree. But the main benefits of a CUV/crossover vs a sedan have nothing to do with foul weather. For all intents and purposes crossovers are the new station wagons. As much as it hurts to hear something like a CR-V gives up little to nothing dynamically and efficiency-wise to something like an Accord, while being embarrassingly more practical. If you can afford it there is no point in getting a sedan as a main family car; crossovers and minivans are laughably better.
I think he's talking more about the 4Runner. Thing is, we do "need" one vehicle of about that size. X1 might have sufficient space for her (edit: or maybe not, see below) if we keep the 4Runner but is significantly too small as our largest vehicle. Again, given I drive 6k miles a year to her 25k seems to make sense for me to daily drive the larger SUV, esp given its mileage (ie at only 6k miles a year, maybe 10k when you work in family duty that I'm not currently putting on the M3, we can keep the 4Runner for years if we choose to).
Good metric of whether you should sell something is asking yourself would you buy it again today. I can say I would about the 4Runner, can't say that for the M3. If owning an SUV in FL is wasteful then what's a high performance car that never gets pushed?
Quick google search shows X1 cargo volume 27/59. CRV 39/76. Highlander 14/42/83. Haven't test drove the X1, who knows maybe she'd love it but I don't really consider it in the running. Don't see what it brings to the table other than badge, driving dynamics I'm sure are better but similar to the point w/ the M3 putzing around town in traffic or cruising on the highway does it really matter? X1 is significantly more expensive similarly equipped and has significantly less space ... if we were to bump up the price range the highlander at least offers more space, but by those numbers not all that much (I realize cubic ft #s don't always translate perfectly to real world usefulness).
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-cr-v-in-depth-model-review-2017-honda-cr-v-cargo-space-and-storage-review-car-and-driver-page-7
This thread makes me sad, but I've basically come to the same conclusion. Vast majority of my driving is spent driving 33 miles each way to work and back. And it's through highway traffic pretty much the whole time. The 4Runner just does it so much better than a sports car of some sort.
I think that's why the incredibly fast cars really don't appeal to me as much anymore. I could go get a C6 corvette or something, but I'm not really going to drive it any faster than the S2000 really. It's a waste. In fact, even the S2000 is too much for a lot of public roads. I can't even hit Vtec in a lot of situations. I still like the idea of a fun car, but I want max smiles for the conditions I drive in. In that sense, Miatas are actually better than the S2000 I think.
I think you should test drive an ND just to see what it's like. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Jeep Trackhawk
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2017, 07:24:41 AM
This thread makes me sad, but I've basically come to the same conclusion. Vast majority of my driving is spent driving 33 miles each way to work and back. And it's through highway traffic pretty much the whole time. The 4Runner just does it so much better than a sports car of some sort.
I think that's why the incredibly fast cars really don't appeal to me as much anymore. I could go get a C6 corvette or something, but I'm not really going to drive it any faster than the S2000 really. It's a waste. In fact, even the S2000 is too much for a lot of public roads. I can't even hit Vtec in a lot of situations. I still like the idea of a fun car, but I want max smiles for the conditions I drive in. In that sense, Miatas are actually better than the S2000 I think.
I think you should test drive an ND just to see what it's like. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Maybe we need a carspin gtg driving school for everyone who has come to the unthusiast conclusion for daily driving.
I think I'd like the ND too, but again I'm not even entertaining 3 cars right now.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 07:33:34 AM
Maybe we need a carspin gtg driving school for everyone who has come to the unthusiast conclusion for daily driving.
I think I'd like the ND too, but again I'm not even entertaining 3 cars right now.
It's really only like 2.5 cars
Quote from: 68_427 on September 05, 2017, 07:37:15 AM
It's really only like 2.5 cars
I'm currently trying to work 2 cars into a 1.5 car garage, and I'm bad enough at keeping 2 cars clean.
Plan is no more than 2 cars in the household til the 9 y/o is driving.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 07:33:34 AM
Maybe we need a carspin gtg driving school for everyone who has come to the unthusiast conclusion for daily driving.
I think I'd like the ND too, but again I'm not even entertaining 3 cars right now.
I'd be up for something like that. I'm doing the Porsche driving experience in Atlanta in November.
The 3 car garage isn't nearly as bad to deal with as I thought it would be. Space is the biggest concern. If they're all newer cars, the upkeep isn't too awful. You need to post pictures of your new place so we can all Monday Morning Quarterback your garage situation. I'm sure there's a side yard where we can all place a hypothetical second garage for you.
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2017, 08:16:37 AM
I'd be up for something like that. I'm doing the Porsche driving experience in Atlanta in November.
The 3 car garage isn't nearly as bad to deal with as I thought it would be. Space is the biggest concern. If they're all newer cars, the upkeep isn't too awful. You need to post pictures of your new place so we can all Monday Morning Quarterback your garage situation. I'm sure there's a side yard where we can all place a hypothetical second car port for you.
Get your 'spin in check man
Honda just unveiled a hybrid CRV set to debut at the Frankfurt motor show. Maybe check to see if that's going to come here?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2017, 05:57:43 AM
Lol... X1, CR-V etc are not SUVs, they are CUVs/crossovers. Like you said, they are in FL so an SUV is pointless. I agree. But the main benefits of a CUV/crossover vs a sedan have nothing to do with foul weather. For all intents and purposes crossovers are the new station wagons. As much as it hurts to hear something like a CR-V gives up little to nothing dynamically and efficiency-wise to something like an Accord, while being embarrassingly more practical. If you can afford it there is no point in getting a sedan as a main family car; crossovers and minivans are laughably better.
The thing is, while SUVs have great cargo capacities on paper, it's only when you stack shit to the roof when you have that advantage over a sedan.
So things like dogs and odd shaped items, SUVs are great and I agree it's good to have in a family. But for routine stuff, baby strollers, even a kids bike - my wife's focus probably has as much or more cargo space then my Jeep. More up to a midsized sedan and to match the trunk space (length x width) in a CUV it would take one hell of a large CUV.
In my mind, replace the 4 Runner with something newer with equal space and keep the M. A extremely low mileage M will retain its value and the trunk space is fine for family duties... and take it on some nice trips to enjoy it with the family.
Hell, my now 11yr old begs to take rides and go places in my RX8 over out other vehicles. He loves riding in a "race car". Raise your 9 year old to be an enthusiast!
Is there a reason you don't track or autocross the M3?
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
The thing is, while SUVs have great cargo capacities on paper, it's only when you stack shit to the roof when you have that advantage over a sedan.
:hammerhead:
No.
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2017, 08:51:34 AM
Is there a reason you don't track or autocross the M3?
This. An M car that never sees that kind of use is 90% wasted in the US.
Join a club.
I totally see Lebowski's rationale for his situation however. Cars are meant for driving. I enjoy my cars at the track and also on a lot of highway/country drives. Just my new somewhat frequent Mexico City - Leon commute takes me on roads where I can use them a bit.
In my case there's also a bit of a collector bug, which is a different kind of thing.
The X1 is too tight; why are y'all reccomending it? It's spacious for it's size, but it's more comparable to the HR-V rather than the CRV
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2017, 08:51:34 AM
Is there a reason you don't track or autocross the M3?
Just don't have much interest in it, barely have time for my existing hobbies not really looking to add more. If I did drive on a track I'd rather it not be in my own dd.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 09:11:51 AM
Just don't have much interest in it, barely have time for my existing hobbies not really looking to add more. If I did drive on a track I'd rather it not be in my own dd.
But you enjoy driving spiritedly? Autocross is a much safer environment, cheaper, and lends itself to more friendships as you're doing corner work. You're not going to wad the M3 up in an autocross
The only thing you need is a helmet and a day. I'm sure the family would have fun taking turns as passengers. You joined an auto message board. Seems like there'd be more than enough interest in performance driving. You do you though
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2017, 09:17:37 AM
But you enjoy driving spiritedly? Autocross is a much safer environment, cheaper, and lends itself to more friendships as you're doing corner work. You're not going to wad the M3 up in an autocross
The only thing you need is a helmet and a day. I'm sure the family would have fun taking turns as passengers.
Your not going to wad up an M3 on the track either. I did M School with some newbs in the rain at speeds up to 115mph and nobody managed to even spin with M mode dsc enabled
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2017, 09:17:37 AM
But you enjoy driving spiritedly? Autocross is a much safer environment, cheaper, and lends itself to more friendships as you're doing corner work. You're not going to wad the M3 up in an autocross
The only thing you need is a helmet and a day. I'm sure the family would have fun taking turns as passengers. You joined an auto message board. Seems like there'd be more than enough interest in performance driving. You do you though
Like I said, would rather do a driving school or something. Have lots of other things competing for my weekends though.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 08:51:37 AM
:hammerhead:
No.
Ok, since I'm on vacation...
Area behind Jeep Grand Cherokee rear seat - 42"Lx 40"W
Area inside Focus trunk - 40"L x 42" wide and before the wheel wells it's actual 48 wide.
Again, you need to stack shit to the roof in an SUV to realize the cargo capacity advantage. Great to have in 1 vehicle, completely no reason for 2.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 09:20:48 AM
Your not going to wad up an M3 on the track either. I did M School with some newbs in the rain at speeds up to 115mph and nobody managed to even spin with M mode dsc enabled
Eh, if you oversteer into the grass and happen to catch the rear tire on a piece of the landscape it can chuck it pretty wildly. Also, some tracks have walls right at the track edge in the turns (I'm looking at you watkins glen), or if there's a part failure you're only going 60-80 vs 120-150. My instructor at my first track day had brake failure and wadded up the rear of his Corvette.
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2017, 09:33:25 AM
Eh, if you oversteer into the grass and happen to catch the rear tire on a piece of the landscape it can chuck it pretty wildly. Also, some tracks have walls right at the track edge in the turns (I'm looking at you watkins glen), or if there's a part failure you're only going 60-80 vs 120-150. My instructor at my first track day had brake failure and wadded up the rear of his Corvette.
He would have wadded up his car on the street with brake failure...
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 09:32:22 AM
Ok, since I'm on vacation...
Area behind Jeep Grand Cherokee rear seat - 42"Lx 40"W
Area inside Focus trunk - 40"L x 42" wide and before the wheel wells it's actual 48 wide.
Again, you need to stack shit to the roof in an SUV to realize the cargo capacity advantage. Great to have in 1 vehicle, completely no reason for 2.
A hatch, wagon, or SUV is always going to have more usable space than comparable sedan. The height is useful for all kinds of things (like dogs), as is the ability to fold seats down for one continuous space (yeah lots of sedans seats fold too incl m3 but not nearly as useable as in a hatch wagon or SUV). JGC is also about worst in class for usable cargo space, fwiw. The 4Runner has WAY more space than the M3, period. CRV does too, and has way more than the X1 etc etc. What you're advocating is literally worst of all worlds, least practical combination and $40k more expensive to boot while leaving us without a single vehicle that can fit all 4 of us plus the dogs :facepalm:. Not remotely interested in doing that.
Your "there's no reason to have it" argument is entirely circular as there's also "no reason to have" a performance car if you don't get to use it. So you're advocating a $70k car with high ownership costs that I have "no reason to have" over a $30k car with low running costs that you also claim I have "no reason to have" (and fwiw as you know "because she prefers an SUV" is a reason). If I have no reason to have either, I'll take the cheap one.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
The thing is, while SUVs have great cargo capacities on paper, it's only when you stack shit to the roof when you have that advantage over a sedan.
That's hardly it. The larger opening enables putting bigger items in. Seats fold (not always a given in a sedan- they don't in the G). Power liftgate is crazy convenient etc. I'm sure there are times when they both have the cars and Lebowski needs to pick up big items. What then?
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 08:33:42 AMSo things like dogs and odd shaped items, SUVs are great and I agree it's good to have in a family. But for routine stuff, baby strollers, even a kids bike - my wife's focus probably has as much or more cargo space then my Jeep. More up to a midsized sedan and to match the trunk space (length x width) in a CUV it would take one hell of a large CUV.
It's not just about trunk space. Dealing with car seats is going to be easier with the CUV's higher ride height. CUV will have a smaller footprint for its interior size which will make it easier to park (CR-V is a foot shorter than the Accord). As CUVs continue to take over the world I'm sure its resale will be better too.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 08:33:42 AMIn my mind, replace the 4 Runner with something newer with equal space and keep the M. A extremely low mileage M will retain its value and the trunk space is fine for family duties... and take it on some nice trips to enjoy it with the family.
Hell, my now 11yr old begs to take rides and go places in my RX8 over out other vehicles. He loves riding in a "race car". Raise your 9 year old to be an enthusiast!
Like Lebowski said in his opening post they take the dogs out. Even without the dogs, packing all the luggage + baby stuff for a weekend trip is unlikely. F30 back seat is pretty good for its class but it's still tight for a long trip. And again dude does zero enthusiastic driving so he gets nothing out of the M3 he couldn't get out of the 4Runner.
As for getting his kid into cars, I feel like a much better route would be to get the kid into karting... or sim racing :devil:
I guess my question for you is why are you so adamant on Lebowski keeping a car that doesn't fit his needs and is crazy expensive to hold on to. "Your kid will think its cool" isn't really compelling; I'd hope his kids would have more to admire him for than his car :lol: Also lol @ only citing 2 of the 3 dimensions of cargo space :lol: I'm so glad you came back to the forum, what would discussions like this be without your input :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 09:36:38 AM
He would have wadded up his car on the street with brake failure...
His brakes wouldn't have failed in the first place, as I imagine he doesn't do regular hard stops from 120-150 on public roads.................................................
I love how I get a lecture on what a family needs cargo wise from a person who doesn't even have a family.
He will have a family of 4. The rear seats will not be folded down. The dimensions of a Crv is 37" depth to the rear seats and 40" wide. It's smaller the our focus and smaller then my JGC when only loaded to the height of the rear seat. The Crv has great stats because it has a taller roofline.
Again, 1 SUV is great for dogs and the occasional home depot run. It's not going to out do an average sedan under normal conditions.
Honestly can't tell if Rotor's being serious or if he's just stirring the pot in response to my posts in this 3-cars thread that he should "figure out how to do it with 2". If he's being serious, dude isn't making any sense.
"Why buy a $30k car you don't need when you can keep a $70k car you don't need, sell the $15k car you do need, and replace it with a $40k you don't need?" If the end goal is maximum cost for minimal utility, Rotor's cracked the code.
Are you seriously trying to act like you have no money? You already bought an M3 and more house then you ever need. Enjoy your shit.
Replace 4 Runner with large CUV/SUV, enjoy M3 on family trips, and be a dad who isn't lame.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 10:59:34 AM
Are you seriously trying to act like you have no money? You already bought an M3 and more house then you ever need. Enjoy your shit.
Replace 4 Runner with large CUV/SUV, enjoy M3 on family trips, and be a dad who isn't lame.
You get money by saving money, and having money does not mean it has to be spent. I spend money on things that bring me value commensurate with the cost, after 3 years of ownership I've concluded the M3 does not meet that criteria. As I said in original posts, I've given quite a bit of thought to this stuff and concluded through firsthand experience that beyond a certain point, nicer stuff does not bring increased utility. That's a conclusion most never fully reach, just look how many luxury cars are on the road. I don't expect you to understand this - most people don't.
M3 has room for family weekends trips, which are usually to the beach or something (read: no fun driving opportunities, and not ideal conditions for a nice car). We take the 4runner on such trips, unless we drive separately and take both cars.
Only real trips that have much fun driving opportunities are up to say the Carolinas. We go for more than a a few days, bring the dogs, and therefore take the 4Runner (may have to rent a minivan going forward w/ the baby, we'll see). The solo exception was the picking it up, we flew up and drove it back.
Lameness is not determined by car choice.
"Hey kid, I'm gonna sacrifice your comfort, as well as our family's practicality and financial future in the hopes that you will equate this car that I don't really want with being a cool and good dad"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Part of a satisfying car ownership is knowing when to let go.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 11:05:18 AM
You get money by saving money, and having money does not mean it has to be spent. I spend money on things that bring me value commensurate with the cost, after 3 years of ownership I've concluded the M3 does not meet that criteria. As I said in original posts, I've given quite a bit of thought to this stuff and concluded through firsthand experience that beyond a certain point, nicer stuff does not bring increased utility. That's a conclusion most never fully reach, just look how many luxury cars are on the road. I don't expect you to understand this - most people don't.
M3 has room for family weekends trips, which are usually to the beach or something (read: no fun driving opportunities, and not ideal conditions for a nice car). We take the 4runner on such trips, unless we drive separately and take both cars.
Only real trips that have much fun driving opportunities are up to say the Carolinas. We go for more than a a few days, bring the dogs, and therefore take the 4Runner (may have to rent a minivan going forward w/ the baby, we'll see). The solo exception was the picking it up, we flew up and drove it back.
Lameness is not determined by car choice.
and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 11:31:27 AM
and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it
Which is why they will take the 4Runner on family trips. The calculus is very simple:
Family trips: 4Runner > CR-V > M3
Lebowski's commute: 4Runner > CR-V > M3
Value for Lebowski's situation: 4Runner ~ CR-V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M3
With the cost savings LEbowski could probably take his kids karting every week and do a Porsche or BMW driving event every month :huh:
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 11:31:27 AM
and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it
Not at all, pretty much any trip w/o all 4 of us plus the dogs the CRV would serve just fine. Or the 4Runner. Or she leaves a day before me as sometimes happen s and we take both. 2 practical cars in the household = versatility.
Also w/ this obsession with rear seats up - rear seats fold 60/40. Can have one child and the 60 side folded for dogs. Can have 2 children and 40 side folded with dogs (tight but works in a pinch). Versatility. These arbitrary rules about seat folding and "cargo can't be higher than the seat line" wtf. Talk about a lame dad: "son, do not place your bag in the rear cargo area such that any part protrudes above the top of the seat, headrests excluded".
Maybe go back and re-read the first page of the thread.
If you think the M3 is a must own, I'll sell it to you for KBB. I'll even deliver it to your door.
You can't put dogs in the trunk of a car.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2017, 11:53:21 AM
You can't put dogs in the trunk of a car.
Ha, I had Xindra get in the front seat of the C6 for 2 years, before I got the 4Runner.
Dogs would fit in back of M3 w/ seats folded, though I've never had them in it. Dog hair gets everywhere. Slobber on the windows and door sills. Really don't think I'll miss having a nice car.
I'm pretty much looking at the same possibilities as Lebowski. I need something with space (but I also want AWD or 4WD). I'm looking at the Outback (got Kevin's input on that), the CR-V, and the Ford Edge.
CX-5 is appealing but too small (they need a CX-7). The Edge is nice and there's a Ford dealer only 35 minutes from here - vs an hour for the Subaru or Honda.
For me it keeps coming back to the CRV or the Edge. Guessing the Honda would have a better retained value than the Ford.
Yeah, I meant that in regards to the whole sedan vs CUV cargo space thing.
You won't miss having a nice car. Having/keeping the A4 as perfect as I did became a real pain once the honeymoon was over, especially since detailing is my job. Spend all your time working on other people's shit and you really don't feel like doing your own. Enter, Tacoma. :lol:
The CX-9 isn't all that much bigger than what you're looking at. Give that a shot Morris.
Lol a wagon/hatch/SUV is infinitely more practical than a sedan. Why is this even an argument?
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
Having/keeping the A4 as perfect as I did became a real pain once the honeymoon was over
Yeah, that's how I feel. That's what I like about the 4Runner - go to the beach and get sand all over it, sit in it with wet bathing suits, even wet/dirty dogs in it whatever. Come home and run the thing through the commercial car wash for like 30 bucks and don't sweat it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2017, 11:24:42 AM
"Hey kid, I'm gonna sacrifice your comfort, as well as our family's practicality and financial future in the hopes that you will equate this car that I don't really want with being a cool and good dad"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Part of a satisfying car ownership is knowing when to let go.
If the price of his M3 effects his kids wellbeing, he better stop the wealth pissing match with Cougs
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 01:02:29 PM
Yeah, that's how I feel. That's what I like about the 4Runner - go to the beach and get sand all over it, sit in it with wet bathing suits, even wet/dirty dogs in it whatever. Come home and run the thing through the commercial car wash for like 30 bucks and don't sweat it.
Yep. This is why 4Runners are the ideal vehicle :lol: Perfect for beating the shit out of for 150k-200k miles, then selling for $10k.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 11:44:41 AM
Not at all, pretty much any trip w/o all 4 of us plus the dogs the CRV would serve just fine. Or the 4Runner. Or she leaves a day before me as sometimes happen s and we take both. 2 practical cars in the household = versatility.
Also w/ this obsession with rear seats up - rear seats fold 60/40. Can have one child and the 60 side folded for dogs. Can have 2 children and 40 side folded with dogs (tight but works in a pinch). Versatility. These arbitrary rules about seat folding and "cargo can't be higher than the seat line" wtf. Talk about a lame dad: "son, do not place your bag in the rear cargo area such that any part protrudes above the top of the seat, headrests excluded".
Maybe go back and re-read the first page of the thread.
If you think the M3 is a must own, I'll sell it to you for KBB. I'll even deliver it to your door.
Your going to stuff a child seat and a preteen in the 60 side of a bench seat and add 2 dogs in a Crv? Hope the kids and dogs are miniature.
As per loading things above the rear seat height, are you really going to stack things above your kids head behind them so they get hit in the head during a panic stop? Hell no. A Crv probably has about 12-15 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat up to the seat height. Your M3 is more practical for a trip.
:wtf: This might the strangest, most factually incorrect hill to die on that the Spin has ever seen. This is even more bizarre than the carport discussion.
You should still do an autox event before selling the M3.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 01:10:35 PM
If the price of his M3 effects his kids wellbeing, he better stop the wealth pissing match with
You're still not getting it.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 01:31:23 PM
You're still not getting it.
I have a neighbor with a $3million house and drives a late 90s Accord... I get it and i really don't care for it
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
Your going to stuff a child seat and a preteen in the 60 side of a bench seat and add 2 dogs in a Crv? Hope the kids and dogs are miniature.
Uh, you're the guy who suggested the X1 and sell the 4Runner. You realize the X1 is significantly smaller than the CRV right? How were you envisioning things working with that? Or we would just caravan everywhere with 2 cars?
9 years old a stretch to call preteen. I'm not talking ideal for a 13 hour trip, I'm talking about the maybe once a year instance where dogs go to the vet and "preeeeeeeeeeeteen" is home from school. It's a 15 minute drive.
Quote
As per loading things above the rear seat height, are you really going to stack things above your kids head behind them so they get hit in the head during a panic stop? Hell no. A Crv probably has about 12-15 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat up to the seat height. Your M3 is more practical for a trip.
Yeah, I was talking specifically about the instances where I place a bowling ball atop our luggage. I'll have to do 2 going forward, one behind each child.
No dumbass, a typical piece of luggage can be laid flat or stood up. Depending on height will be taller than seats. Sometimes (gasp) a pillow or blanket is thrown on top.
What is going on. Make it stop :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 01:34:22 PM
I have a neighbor with a $3million house and drives a late 90s Accord... I get it and i really don't care for it
No, you do not, your posts including this one make that clear.
If you don't use something, get rid of it. If you don't get value out of something, don't buy it. Doesn't need to be a huge % of net worth for that to hold. ~$50k KBB isn't make or break for my financial position, but isn't chump change either.
People tend to replace stuff with at minimum equivalent and more often upgrade over time (hedonistic treadmill) ... i.e. for many luxury car buyers a $70k car purchase isn't just the $70k car today, they'll replace it with an $80k car in 3-5 years, a $90k car 3-5 years after that etc, all financed of course. The sooner you can form the conclusion "you know what, I like this $70k car just fine, but I'm also mostly indifferent between driving it and this $40k car I bought 6 years ago" the better. I can sell it and replace w/ a $30k CUV she'll drive 6-7 years, I'll drive the 4Runner a couple/few years and replace it with something similar (hopefully there's a 6th gen 4Runner coming) and keep that for 7-10 years. Repeat. Adds up over time, on both sides of the equation (increases net worth and decreases cost of living, financial independence is a function of both).
You can stop digging in to a losing argument and go enjoy your vacation.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 05, 2017, 01:27:18 PM
You should still do an autox event before selling the M3.
+1. Last hurrah.
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2017, 12:25:41 PM
The CX-9 isn't all that much bigger than what you're looking at. Give that a shot Morris.
Exterior dimensions are. It's 10" longer than the 4Runner
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
Hell no. A Crv probably has about 12-15 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat up to the seat height. Your M3 is more practical for a trip.
M3's trunk is 12 cubic feet, gets worse gas mileage, and he cares 10x more about anything happening to it because he has twice the money tied up in it. This is more practical?
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2017, 12:25:41 PM
The CX-9 isn't all that much bigger than what you're looking at. Give that a shot Morris.
I'll take a look thanks. But I worry about sticking little 4-bangers in big SUVs (I have the same prejudice against the big Volvos.) But I'll do some more research on the CX-9
Lebowski's had the same revelation as me. I love cars and everything to do with them, but we have two fun cars when we actually need one fun car (the Merc) and one sensible appliance, with a bit of space in the back for hauling garbage and doing the occasional airport run with people and their cases. I get no utility out of the G37. The needed utility also extends now to actually needing traction of some kind on all four wheels now that I'm in an area with very hilly terrain with lots of steep grades.
I absolutely see why he likes the CR-V: it's a standout in the segment, especially the latest model.
My BFF is running a tite game in this here thread.
Less is most definitely more - cars, houses, etc., and it's much better to (finally) find out sooner rather than later.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 01:39:17 PM
Uh, you're the guy who suggested the X1 and sell the 4Runner. You realize the X1 is significantly smaller than the CRV right? How were you envisioning things working with that? Or we would just caravan everywhere with 2 cars?
9 years old a stretch to call preteen. I'm not talking ideal for a 13 hour trip, I'm talking about the maybe once a year instance where dogs go to the vet and "preeeeeeeeeeeteen" is home from school. It's a 15 minute drive.
Yeah, I was talking specifically about the instances where I place a bowling ball atop our luggage. I'll have to do 2 going forward, one behind each child.
No dumbass, a typical piece of luggage can be laid flat or stood up. Depending on height will be taller than seats. Sometimes (gasp) a pillow or blanket is thrown on top.
I mentioned the X1 since it's CX5 sized.
The obvious thing is to replace the 4 Runner with a large CUV/SUV. Then you have a nice new reliable vehicle for long trips, and a nice low mileage sedan to handle lesser affairs... Rather then keeping the high mileage vehicle and replacing the low mileage vehicle with one of equal utility.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 02:35:11 PM
I mentioned the X1 since it's CX5 sized.
The obvious thing is to replace the 4 Runner with a large CUV/SUV. Then you have a nice new reliable vehicle for long trips, and a nice low mileage sedan to handle lesser affairs... Rather then keeping the high mileage vehicle and replacing the low mileage vehicle with one of equal utility.
4Runner is reliable and should remain reliable for years.
CRV is not "equal utility" as an M3. That's laughable, has been pointed out as laughable. It's not only has greater utility it's cheaper to buy, cheaper to own and maintain, less of a headache, and statistically should be significantly more reliable.
Dont want a larger SUV. Most likely (eventual) replacement for the 4Runner will be another 4Runner. She and I both like the 4runner and want to keep it. Selling it at this point isn't being entertained.
You do realize I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you originally bought an M3 because you enjoy driving and not because you actually are complete poser trying to impress a bunch of random strangers on an internet forum... The open wanting to trade it for a Crv in the name of "its a better financial decision" (when we all know the $20k difference won't mean shit to your wealth) for a smallish CUV of dubious actual utility really makes things questionable.
The $25,000 in depreciation you'll eat would buy you a lot of gas. Your 4Runner isn't high mileage for a Yota. If you feel comfortable with the reliability going forward, seems like it makes the most sense to keep everything as-is, unless the M3 is costing you a fortune to maintain. The longer you can hold it without paying out any catastrophic repair bills, the more valuable it will likely be, with the big variable being how future buyers will respond to the corporate 6-cylinder.
Is it really that boring of a commuter? Seems like the perfect toy for Florida's straight, flat roads. It's not quite the lithe athlete it once was, but it's definitely a highway bomber.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
You do realize I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you originally bought an M3 because you enjoy driving and not because you actually are complete poser trying to impress a bunch of random strangers on an internet forum... The open wanting to trade it for a Crv in the name of "its a better financial decision" (when we all know the $20k difference won't mean shit to your wealth) for a smallish CUV of dubious actual utility really makes things questionable.
Don't need any benefit of the doubt - it would be very difficult to underestimate how much I care that you think I am or am not a poseur. If I was, I doubt I'd start a thread about trading an M3 for a CRV. Nah, a poseur would do exactly what you recommend, keep the M3 and buy another one in 2 years and an M5 3 years after that all the while telling himself he's enjoying them.
I like driving, sure. On an open winding country or mountain road. That's like 1% of my driving, and I don't buy cars for 1% of my driving.
Like I said, I don't expect you to get it - most don't, just look at all the luxury cars on the road.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
The $25,000 in depreciation you'll eat would buy you a lot of gas.
Doesn't work that way. The depreciation that's already taken place is gone and I won't be getting that back whether I keep it or not. No ones writing me a check for gas if I keep it.
Generally speaking yeah, I don't buy cars with the intention of keeping them only 3 years, but it is what it is. It's not going to stop depreciating or appreciate, selling it and replacing with a significantly cheaper car is a financial positive.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
You do realize I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you originally bought an M3 because you enjoy driving and not because you actually are complete poser trying to impress a bunch of random strangers on an internet forum... The open wanting to trade it for a Crv in the name of "its a better financial decision" (when we all know the $20k difference won't mean shit to your wealth) for a smallish CUV of dubious actual utility really makes things questionable.
:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
Your jealousy is palpable. I can almost see it... a little green monster in a MAGA hat :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 03:17:52 PM
I like driving, sure. On an open winding country or mountain road. That's like 1% of my driving, and I don't buy cars for 1% of my driving.
1%? You must take a fair number of road trips outside of Florida, because no such roads exist in the Sunshine State.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 03:17:52 PM
Don't need any benefit of the doubt - it would be very difficult to underestimate how much I care that you think I am or am not a poseur. If I was, I doubt I'd start a thread about trading an M3 for a CRV. Nah, a poseur would do exactly what you recommend, keep the M3 and buy another one in 2 years and an M5 3 years after that all the while telling himself he's enjoying them.
I like driving, sure. On an open winding country or mountain road. That's like 1% of my driving, and I don't buy cars for 1% of my driving.
Like I said, I don't expect you to get it - most don't, just look at all the luxury cars on the road.
No what a poser would do is dump the M3 while trying to make it look like a moral financial decision. You either got the $$$$ you claim or you don't. Enough with the BS.
Quote from: MX793 on September 05, 2017, 04:07:34 PM
1%? You must take a fair number of road trips outside of Florida, because no such roads exist in the Sunshine State.
Lol. 1% honestly might be high.
On the way to the gun range where I take classes 3-4 times a year, http://www.southernexposuretraining.com, the last 5 or so minutes of that drive is kind of fun. In a typical workweek I'd say pretty much 0% is fun driving.
Yeah, FL not a great place for fun winding roads esp w/ elevation changes.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
The $25,000 in depreciation you'll eat would buy you a lot of gas. Your 4Runner isn't high mileage for a Yota. If you feel comfortable with the reliability going forward, seems like it makes the most sense to keep everything as-is, unless the M3 is costing you a fortune to maintain. The longer you can hold it without paying out any catastrophic repair bills, the more valuable it will likely be, with the big variable being how future buyers will respond to the corporate 6-cylinder.
Is it really that boring of a commuter? Seems like the perfect toy for Florida's straight, flat roads. It's not quite the lithe athlete it once was, but it's definitely a highway bomber.
He has 4 years of full free maintenance and if he is only driving 6k miles a year it's not costing crap for fuel.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
No what a poser would do is dump the M3 while trying to make it look like a moral financial decision. You either got the $$$$ you claim or you don't. Enough with the BS.
Lol.
Fuck off, angry twat.
Other than rotors angry posts, all I've learned from this thread is that Florida sounds like a terrible place.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 05, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
Other than rotors angry posts, all I've learned from this thread is that Florida sounds like a terrible place.
The complaints about Florida roads and their lack of fun is the same in most of the US
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
Your going to stuff a child seat and a preteen in the 60 side of a bench seat and add 2 dogs in a Crv? Hope the kids and dogs are miniature.
As per loading things above the rear seat height, are you really going to stack things above your kids head behind them so they get hit in the head during a panic stop? Hell no. A Crv probably has about 12-15 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat up to the seat height. Your M3 is more practical for a trip.
Again, you can't put dogs in the trunk. :nutty:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Doesn't work that way. The depreciation that's already taken place is gone and I won't be getting that back whether I keep it or not. No ones writing me a check for gas if I keep it.
Generally speaking yeah, I don't buy cars with the intention of keeping them only 3 years, but it is what it is. It's not going to stop depreciating or appreciate, selling it and replacing with a significantly cheaper car is a financial positive.
Your BMW has already taken it's biggest hit and very well might possibly level out at 30-40K even if it never appreciates in value while you own it. The CR-V will begin a slow march to Zero as soon as you drive it off the lot.
It's the difference between an unrealized, 35K loss in the indefinite future (with potential upside) vs a realized 25K hit now plus another guaranteed unrealized 15-30K loss going forward.
Obviously maintenance costs are a huge variable, and maybe the Beemer's value drops like a stone and it's a point moot, but if it isn't murdering you on servicing and/or ¿payments? you can make an economic case for it.
On the other hand, you've kept the mileage nice and low and can get out now if the variability or thought of having that much money tied up in a vehicle doesn't sit well w you.
Maybe he just wants another fuckin car
This forum, I swear
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:25:11 PM
Your BMW has already taken it's biggest hit and very well might possibly level out at 30-40K even if it never appreciates in value while you own it. The CR-V will begin a slow march to Zero as soon as you drive it off the lot.
It's the difference between an unrealized, 35K loss in the indefinite future (with potential upside) vs a realized 25K hit now plus another guaranteed unrealized 15-30K loss going forward.
Obviously maintenance costs are a huge variable, and maybe the Beemer's value drops like a stone and it's a point moot, but if it isn't murdering you on servicing and/or ¿payments? you can make an economic case for it.
On the other hand, you've kept the mileage nice and low and can get out now if the variability or thought of having that much money tied up in a vehicle doesn't sit well w you.
That's not how it works. It's not an investment, it's a car - there is no "potential upside" in the future and the depreciation isn't going to "level out" either, it will likely decelerate sure but it's going to continue to depreciate. Yes, a CRV will depreciate towards zero, so will the M3. Im not an expert on BMW depreciation rates, maybe Hector can weigh in but as far as I'm aware off-warranty M-cars depreciate. This isn't a classic, it's not a collectible, it's a three year old example of a car currently in production.
Yes, the depreciation curve is steepest early in a cars life hence why buying new cars and keeping only 2-3 years (read: leases) is generally a bad idea. I get that, I agree with it, and I always buy cars with the intention of keeping them 6-7 years or more (and in all other cases have stuck to that).
I'm not interested in making a financial case for keeping it (and fwiw there's never a financial case to be made for luxury items). It's a luxury that's being underutilized and doesn't bring be value commensurate with its cost, whether you want to call that purchase price or current value (opportunity cost).
FWIW w/ all this talk of depreciation, its not something I give any thought to. From a mental accounting standpoint I treat buying a car the same way I do buying a cheeseburger - I pay cash and mentally write the thing off to zero (expense it). When I think about my net worth, I don't think "oh and I have two cars worth $x". Cars are consumables, they're used until they're eventually sold, usually w/ proceeds going towards a newer (more expensive) car. I looked up KBB only when I started thinking of selling it. The only piece of this puzzle with a positive expected return is the ~$20k net saved.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 05, 2017, 04:31:53 PM
Maybe he just wants another fuckin car
This forum, I swear
FWIW, he said in his first post that he might do nothing. I was just playing devil's advocate and making the financial case for the M3, such as it is.
In reality his fate was prolly sealed as soon as he floated the idea of buying her a new ride. :thumbsup:
THE CR-V will depreciate less in the next 3-5 years than his M3 will all while freeing up $20,000 during that time frame.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 04:37:55 PM
That's not how it works. It's not an investment, it's a car - there is no "potential upside" in the future and the depreciation isn't going to "level off" either, it's going to continue to depreciate. Yes, a CRV will depreciate towards zero, so will the M3. Im not an expert on BMW depreciation rates, maybe Hector can weigh in but as far as I'm aware off-warranty M-cars depreciate.
Yes, the depreciation curve is steepest early in a cars life hence why buying new cars and keeping only 2-3 years (read: leases) is generally a bad idea. I get that, I agree with it, and I always buy cars with the intention of keeping them 6-7 years or more (and in all other cases have stuck to that).
I'm not interested in making a financial case for keeping it (and fwiw there's never a financial case to be made for luxury items). It's a luxury that's being underutilized and doesn't bring be value commensurate with its cost, whether you want to call that purchase price or current value (opportunity cost).
For a normal car sure but the M3 isn't normal. The E46 is still trading close to 20K. An E30 in good condition could net you close to 100 grand or more.
Same reason why you can't buy an Elise for less than 30K regardless of year/mileage. Or look at what the 911 is doing right now.
Look I'm not saying it will for sure, and already pointed out why it may not, but it's a much different conversation with the M3 than it is a Civic.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 05, 2017, 04:41:34 PM
THE CR-V will depreciate less in the next 3-5 years than his M3 will all while freeing up $20,000 during that time frame.
Depends. If the BMW levels off forget it. But even if it doesn't, it could crawl slowly enough to be a wash.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
No what a poser would do is dump the M3 while trying to make it look like a moral financial decision. You either got the $$$$ you claim or you don't. Enough with the BS.
Lol jesus christ dude
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:47:08 PM
Depends. If the BMW levels off forget it. But even if it doesn't, it could crawl slowly enough to be a wash.
Late model E92 M3 sedans are in the mid $30s with 40-60k miles. It's safe to assume the F80s will do the same, which would be $20k less than what his car is worth right now. A loaded CR-V will not be a $10k car in 3-5 years. 80k mile loaded FWD CR-Vs are still >$15K cars.
I'm not saying I'm happy that he's considering getting rid of the M3 at all, but I can understand the benefits of the CR-V especially if he isn't enjoying the M3.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 05, 2017, 04:57:20 PM
Late model E92 M3 sedans are in the mid $30s with 40-60k miles. It's safe to assume the F80s will do the same, which would be $20k less than what his car is worth right now. A loaded CR-V will not be a $10k car in 3-5 years. 80k mile loaded FWD CR-Vs are still >$15K cars.
That mileage isn't comparable. He's one year away from being a late model with less than half that. Additionally, that might be the lowest it ever gets.
I got the impression he wasn't interested in another 3-5 year stint if it wasn't necessary.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 05, 2017, 04:58:37 PM
I'm not saying I'm happy that he's considering getting rid of the M3 at all, but I can understand the benefits of the CR-V especially if he isn't enjoying the M3.
Understood. And in all likelihood a new mainstreamer will be faaaaaaar cheaper. I'm just saying it's a different calculus with this car than it is your average car, even your average luxury car. It's like a 10% chance (pulled that number out of nowhere) versus your odds of winning the lottery.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
No what a poser would do is dump the M3 while trying to make it look like a moral financial decision. You either got the $$$$ you claim or you don't. Enough with the BS.
:lol:
This is awful, JFC. That he understands he will be absorbing a $20K loss and is willing to sell the car anyway = he probably has the money.
And personally, I'd rather be a "poser" than an idiot- which IMO is someone who keeps a depreciating car they barely drive to keep their "enthusiast card". People who make big character judgments based on the kind of car someone owns aren't worth talking to, let alone making big financial decisions for.
I hope he sells the M3 now just to spite you :lol:
His M3 will definitely continue to depreciate until it hits values similar to what E46s trade for today IMO. It won't get as low as an E36 but definitely not a rare collectible.
I am curious as to in which aspects Lebowski lets himself "go" a bit financially. I think (obviously) that toys are ok and not all decisions have to be financially by the book. Within reason, life is short.
Also, some level of desire for nice things can drive effort at work. And that can be good not only for yourself but also for people you can impact.
I can't imagine trading my cars for a "normal" mainstreamer unless there is serious financial stress on the horizon. Every time I've entertained that my personal conclusion is that the relatively small financial hit is well worth the pleasure I get from driving them and just looking at them. Clearly Lebowski's priorities are different.
A few years ago some of you know I sold my E46 to get into a small capital raise we needed. Best financial decision ever but also nice to have been able to buy it back later.
Quote from: 68_427 on September 05, 2017, 04:41:34 PM
THE CR-V will depreciate less in the next 3-5 years than his M3 will all while freeing up $20,000 during that time frame.
Yep. Plus things like tires will be expensive and frequent, it will eat a lot more gas, etc.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
His M3 will definitely continue to depreciate until it hits values similar to what E46s trade for today IMO. It won't get as low as an E36 but definitely not a rare collectible.
I am curious as to in which aspects Lebowski lets himself "go" a bit financially. I think (obviously) that toys are ok and not all decisions have to be financially by the book. Within reason, life is short.
Also, some level of desire for nice things can drive effort at work. And that can be good not only for yourself but also for people you can impact.
I can't imagine trading my cars for a "normal" mainstreamer unless there is serious financial stress on the horizon. Every time I've entertained that my personal conclusion is that the relatively small financial hit is well worth the pleasure I get from driving them and just looking at them. Clearly Lebowski's priorities are different.
A few years ago some of you know I sold my E46 to get into a small capital raise we needed. Best financial decision ever but also nice to have been able to buy it back later.
Everyone has their things. I admit, owning the G is nice for a lot of stupid, vain, superficial reasons. But I could and very well might go back to a mainstreamer in the future. Something like a GTI. Life is indeed too short to jump on a debt treadmill for depreciating assets (if cars can even be called that)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2017, 05:10:13 PM
:lol:
This is awful, JFC. That he understands he will be absorbing a $20K loss and is willing to sell the car anyway = he probably has the money.
And personally, I'd rather be a "poser" than an idiot- which IMO is someone who keeps a depreciating car they barely drive to keep their "enthusiast card". People who make big character judgments based on the kind of car someone owns aren't worth talking to, let alone making big financial decisions for.
I hope he sells the M3 now just to spite you :lol:
Face it... he pre-ordered an M3 before reviews were even out (would eventually be revealed it lost its edge) , didn't go for the manual if I remember correctly, and most importantly and telling of the situation he has never ever gone out of his way to try and enjoy the car.
No enjoyable roads in Florida? Really? There are no highways you can find a time of day to open the damn car up? No auto x events? No tracks? Bullshit.
It is what it is, a poser buy. A self proclaimed millionaire shouldn't exactly need to give two shits on depreciation, fuel mileage, or maintenance costs on a level like this. This is a feeble attempt on bailing on a car that probably scares him by claiming some awful financial moral high ground.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:44:59 PM
For a normal car sure but the M3 isn't normal. The E46 is still trading close to 20K. An E30 in good condition could net you close to 100 grand or more.
Same reason why you can't buy an Elise for less than 30K regardless of year/mileage. Or look at what the 911 is doing right now.
Look I'm not saying it will for sure, and already pointed out why it may not, but it's a much different conversation with the M3 than it is a Civic.
F80 M3 appreciation is never going to happen.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
His M3 will definitely continue to depreciate until it hits values similar to what E46s trade for today IMO. It won't get as low as an E36 but definitely not a rare collectible.
Do you think the 36 and 46 will start climbing soon as most have predicted?
I think the E9x manuals will climb faster than the 46 (if it does) unless M-division makes another bespoke engine. Also, I think we're nearing an inflection point on performance that will yield to regulations, autonomous cars, and/or other forms of future transportation that will stabalize what value there is in the bruiser-class.
FWIW I don't mean to imply that the F80 was a collector's car by any means, but neither are most of the M-cars and they still manage to hold value unlike normal cars. That a 20year old M3 in decent condition can still fetch 20K is unusual. Not just to cars in general but other, more expensive BMWs.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 05, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
F80 M3 appreciation is never going to happen.
F80 with manual and the comp package probably will as the next generation ditches a manual. This is 991GT3 all over again.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 05:31:10 PM
Face it... he pre-ordered an M3 before reviews were even out (would eventually be revealed it lost its edge) , didn't go for the manual if I remember correctly, and most importantly and telling of the situation he has never ever gone out of his way to try and enjoy the car.
No enjoyable roads in Florida? Really? There are no highways you can find a time of day to open the damn car up? No auto x events? No tracks? Bullshit.
It is what it is, a poser buy. A self proclaimed millionaire shouldn't exactly need to give two shits on depreciation, fuel mileage, or maintenance costs on a level like this. This is a feeble attempt on bailing on a car that probably scares him by claiming some awful financial moral high ground.
I'm going to leave Lebowski the opportunity to intellectually tear you limb from limb :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, he should keep a $70K car for the occasional highway run or track day. Such frivolous purchases and bad financial decisions are how millionaires stay millionaires :lol:
Quote from: GoCougs on September 05, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
F80 M3 appreciation is never going to happen.
Like I said, I don't see it with the corporate six, but it still has a decent chance of going the E46 route-ish which is a great place to be. Before maintenance. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 05:32:42 PM
Do you think the 36 and 46 will start climbing soon as most have predicted?
I think the E9x manuals will climb faster than the 46 (if it does) unless M-division makes another bespoke engine. Also, I think we're nearing an inflection point on performance that will yield to regulations, autonomous cars, and/or other forms of future transportation that will stabalize what value there is in the bruiser-class.
FWIW I don't mean to imply that the F80 was a collector's car by any means, but neither are most of the M-cars and they still manage to hold value unlike normal cars. That a 20year old M3 in decent condition can still fetch 20K is unusual. Not just to cars in general but other, more expensive BMWs.
My guess is that both E46s and E36s have bottomed out. And of the E90/92 variants I agree that manual, later years cars will hold some value (but I think they have lower to go yet - rod bearing fear). Of the current gen only the GTS and CS variants may one day be worth money. Definitely not a first year DCT sedan.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 05:34:26 PM
F80 with manual and the comp package probably will as the next generation ditches a manual. This is 991GT3 all over again.
Possibly but any F80 apprecation is far, far in the future. A lot of room to go down first.
The non comp package cars might actually be a decent bargain in the near future. The comp package spring rates are actually within 10% the normal car so that's minor. The real magic is the returned dampers which it turns out can be added to the regular M3 with simple coding. The coding also makes the car sound better and arguably as powerful.
Well, this isn't getting off topic at all.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 05:32:42 PM
Do you think the 36 and 46 will start climbing soon as most have predicted?
They already have. An E36 M3 (non convertible) with less than 150k miles will cost you over $10k now. Only a few years ago you could get a really nice one for less than $10K, but now you're looking at $15K-$20k for one with under 100k miles, and this in turn as began to drive up E46 M prices.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2017, 05:47:28 PM
Well, this isn't getting off topic at all.
Shhhhhh. Finally a thread going off topic into something interesting for me.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:58:59 PM
Shhhhhh. Finally a thread going off topic into something interesting for me.
:lol:
Lebowski, SIAP but any interest in Volvo? I like the CR-V and can def see the appeal WRT build quality over the competition and design vs the Rav4, but the new Volvos are pretty baws. Also Buick could be a dark horse.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 05:46:17 PM
The non comp package cars might actually be a decent bargain in the near future. The comp package spring rates are actually within 10% the normal car so that's minor. The real magic is the returned dampers which it turns out can be added to the regular M3 with simple coding. The coding also makes the car sound better and arguably as powerful.
Yes. But if you really want a bargain, the outgoing M5s and M6s have dropped like a stone. 600hp(ish) and quite reliable especially compared to the E60.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 06:00:13 PM
Lebowski, SIAP but any interest in Volvo? I like the CR-V and can def see the appeal WRT build quality over the competition and design vs the Rav4, but the new Volvos are pretty baws. Also Buick could be a dark horse.
That new XC60 is lovely. But I am afraid that idea will hit into Lebowski's implacable financial analysis.
Maybe with Volvo the safety angle about protecting the 9yo can get traction. Can you put a price on that?
:)
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:44:38 PM
Possibly but any F80 apprecation is far, far in the future. A lot of room to go down first.
Just wait until the next M3: 150hp combined hybrid inline 3 banger with an autopilot and no steering wheel. The three of us left who are licensed to selfdrive will be trading each other our firstborns for a manual Sentra.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 06:03:32 PM
That new XC60 is lovely. But I am afraid that idea will hit into Lebowski's implacable financial analysis.
Maybe with Volvo the safety angle about protecting the 9yo can get traction. Can you put a price on that?
:)
Base MSRP is 30,000 less than 70,000. They're basically giving them away!
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 06:01:09 PM
Yes. But if you really want a bargain, the outgoing M5s and M6s have dropped like a stone. 600hp(ish) and quite reliable especially compared to the E60.
The executive cruiser thing though is a tough market to stand out in. There was no real way of making the M5 "something special" from BMW so I doubt their resale will ever be anything. Plus V8 BMW engines aren't very trustworthy at the moment.
But yea, one day fairly soon a 600 hp rocket might not be too hard to afford!
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 06:04:59 PM
Just wait until the next M3: 150hp combined hybrid inline 3 banger with an autopilot and no steering wheel. The three of us left who are licensed to selfdrive will be trading each other our firstborns for a manual Sentra.
Combine that with the next 2er going FWD. Oh my...
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 06:10:53 PM
The executive cruiser thing though is a tough market to stand out in. There was no real way of making the M5 "something special" from BMW so I doubt their resale will ever be anything. Plus V8 BMW engines aren't very trustworthy at the moment.
But yea, one day fairly soon a 600 hp rocket might not be too hard to afford!
The first turbo V8s were shit (N63) the M versions (S63) and the later (N63TU) V8s are ok. 0-60 times aren't that good because of traction limits. But in-gear acceleration is awesome.
Also: not investments, bargain rockets.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 06:12:16 PM
Combine that with the next 2er going FWD. Oh my...
That's not for sure. The 1er, yes. The 2 may remain on the RWD platform.
I don't know, at the bmw event the isolation and refinement of the M5/6 just made the speed sensation sort of go away... I never really remember feeling all that excited
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 06:14:35 PM
That's not for sure. The 1er, yes. The 2 may remain on the RWD platform.
Hope that's the case.. The last I read was the M2 is dead in a few more years and the 2er is fwd/awd
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
His M3 will definitely continue to depreciate until it hits values similar to what E46s trade for today IMO. It won't get as low as an E36 but definitely not a rare collectible.
I am curious as to in which aspects Lebowski lets himself "go" a bit financially. I think (obviously) that toys are ok and not all decisions have to be financially by the book. Within reason, life is short.
Also, some level of desire for nice things can drive effort at work. And that can be good not only for yourself but also for people you can impact.
I can't imagine trading my cars for a "normal" mainstreamer unless there is serious financial stress on the horizon. Every time I've entertained that my personal conclusion is that the relatively small financial hit is well worth the pleasure I get from driving them and just looking at them. Clearly Lebowski's priorities are different.
A few years ago some of you know I sold my E46 to get into a small capital raise we needed. Best financial decision ever but also nice to have been able to buy it back later.
We still spend quite a bit. Currently spending on house shit (landscaping, furniture, handful of other things) but that I plan to have largely done by year end. We travel a good amount, we eat out, spend on booze/wine, entertainment, kids activities, the typical stuff. I've sorta gone full circle on spending and financial goals the last few years and may post a more detailed post in the personal finance thread at some point. Long story short I increased my spending quite a bit from 2010-2015ish and came to the conclusion of you know what, my level of spending has gone up but my overall comfort has not done so by a commensurate amount. A lot of moving pieces during that period though including going from single no kids no plans to ever have kids to a family w/ 2 kids. Went from having a long time goal of retiring early, sort of abandoned that goal for a couple of years, and came back to it.
With the way EAG has been buying and marking up M cars and BMW starting to kill all the fun out of new M cars, I can see all current M cars starting to appreciate in the future.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 05, 2017, 06:34:17 PM
With the way EAG has been buying and marking up M cars and BMW starting to kill all the fun out of new M cars, I can see all current M cars starting to appreciate in the future.
Yea... I think I remember them trying to sell a bunch of M2 for like $110k recently :facepalm:
Speaking of the M2... I'm left to wonder how bad of a financial deal is in it would be to get one (or wait to see how radical/limited the CS model will be).
If you have the money, potentially you can have an absolutely amazing driver's car and lose little to no money if you reserve it for a few good drives a year...
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 05:31:10 PM
Face it... he pre-ordered an M3 before reviews were even out (would eventually be revealed it lost its edge) , didn't go for the manual if I remember correctly, and most importantly and telling of the situation he has never ever gone out of his way to try and enjoy the car.
No enjoyable roads in Florida? Really? There are no highways you can find a time of day to open the damn car up? No auto x events? No tracks? Bullshit.
It is what it is, a poser buy. A self proclaimed millionaire shouldn't exactly need to give two shits on depreciation, fuel mileage, or maintenance costs on a level like this. This is a feeble attempt on bailing on a car that probably scares him by claiming some awful financial moral high ground.
It's poseur, P-O-S-E-U-R.
Secondly yes it has a manual. Decent number of reviews were out at the time.
I'm not claiming there isn't a single fun road in the state. I'm saying the vast majority of my normal driving yields little to no opportunity for aggressive or spirited driving. Sure there are tracks. I've never tracked my car, never claimed otherwise and never declared an intention to track it when I bought it. If after 3 years of ownership you don't use something to its potential, IME it's not likely that's gonna change. Happens all the time esp with stuff related to hobbies. A few years ago I bought a DSLR, never got into photography, and sold it. Sometimes I'll buy a gun I intend to shoot, never end up shooting it, if I'm not too lazy I'll sell it. No big deal, life is too short to feign interest in things because you already bought all the gear.
The very title of this thread admits to being an unthusiast. If I'm freely calling myself an unthusiast, by definition I can't really be called a poseur can I? After you master the spelling you can work on using the name correctly.
I'm going to let you in on another secret regarding personal finance: a million dollars isn't really a lot of money. I mean, it is and it isn't. It is in the sense that saving a million dollars takes time. But using the safe withdrawal assumptions I use, $1 million provides a measly $30k/year in sustainable retirement living expenses. $30k/year isn't a lot of money. $60k/yr is better but still not a lot. My end goal was never to have a million dollars and then spend like a lottery winner, it's keep saving and get to five or six million, or more, plus a paid off house, by as young an age as reasonably possible. I'm not there yet, and if I have a $70k (new, or $50k or whatever kbb) depreciating toy sitting in my driveway that I'm not deriving value from, I'm going to sell it. That that somehow bothers you, is fucking weird. That you think a car determines whether or not a person is lame, means you're a dullard, a lemming, a ... well it makes you lame as shit.
Your not using a 4 Runner to its full potential unless your doing some nasty offroading.
Your daily commute won't use anything short of a moped to its full potential.
The argument is moot. If you bought something for image and to impress and are bailing, just admit it and move on... Yeesh
My heart also goes out to your suffering bank account.
And for the record...
Poser
pos·er
ˈpōzər/Submit
noun
a person who acts in an affected manner in order to impress others.
synonyms: exhibitionist, poseur, posturer, fake; informalshow-off
"he's such a poser"
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
Also, some level of desire for nice things can drive effort at work. And that can be good not only for yourself but also for people you can impact.
That almost never works out well, esp. if the desire compels consumer debt to get those nice things.
Commuting on a moped takes time, man. Trust me. Unless you're in a dense urban area where getting over 35mph doesn't happen. :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Your not using a 4 Runner to its full potential unless your doing some nasty offroading.
Your daily commute won't use anything short of a moped to its full potential.
The argument is moot. If you bought something for image and to impress and are bailing, just admit it and move on... Yeesh
My heart also goes out to your suffering bank account.
I/we use the 4Runner according for the intended purpose I bought it for, moreso than I initially expected actually.
Intended purpose was probably a poor choice of words (edited to fix) - used in such a way that it has value, is worth having, determined by me, not you. Your opinion is irrelevant.
Virtually all luxury car purchases are driven in some part by image. If image was of outsized importance to me, I wouldn't be looking at CRVs would I?
My bank account gets $20k bigger from this :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
Commuting on a moped takes time, man. Trust me. Unless you're in a dense urban area where getting over 35mph doesn't happen. :lol:
Eh, he did say it's only 1.5 miles... I thought I was being reasonable
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Your not using a 4 Runner to its full potential unless your doing some nasty offroading.
Your daily commute won't use anything short of a moped to its full potential.
The argument is moot. If you bought something for image and to impress and are bailing, just admit it and move on... Yeesh
My heart also goes out to your suffering bank account.
Is it not possible to buy a car simply because you like it? It can't be either do track days or be a poser. There's a shitload of gray area between there.
Also not sure how the M3 is a waste of money, but spending $25K to sell a perfectly good 4Runner for an X1 isn't... especially when Lebowski is OK with selling the M3 for a CR-V :confused:
There isn't one piece of the solution you've presented that makes any sense :wtf:
An M3 is worth the money when you actually enjoy driving it
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:22:09 PM
An M3 is worth the money when you actually enjoy driving it
Which is...why he's getting rid of it...? :huh:
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:22:09 PM
An M3 is worth the money when you actually enjoy driving it
I offered it to you two pages back and crickets?
I couldn't possibly afford such a thing apparently with only 6 figures in my net worth
Net worth is nothing. Brain worth is where it's at.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:39:12 PM
I couldn't possibly afford such a thing apparently with only 6 figures in my net worth
Sure ya can, talk to your local bank about financing.
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2017, 07:39:12 PM
I couldn't possibly afford such a thing apparently with only 6 figures in my net worth
Only a bitch ass poser would let something like personal finances get in the way of owning a REAL driver's car. Don't you want your son to think you're cool?
SHAME. *clang clang* SHAME *clang cla-clang*
Must be paying 1% fees like a chump.
Lol
Hahaha this thread is great.
Sad to admit it, but yes CUVs have taken over. I was admiring Escapes and CRVs the other day.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 05, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
That almost never works out well, esp. if the desire compels consumer debt to get those nice things.
Debt for toys is a no no. Debt for investment can increase your ROE if done smartly. There is always a certain level of risk of course. Different people tolerate different levels of risk.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 06:51:28 PM
It's poseur, P-O-S-E-U-R.
Secondly yes it has a manual. Decent number of reviews were out at the time.
I'm not claiming there isn't a single fun road in the state. I'm saying the vast majority of my normal driving yields little to no opportunity for aggressive or spirited driving. Sure there are tracks. I've never tracked my car, never claimed otherwise and never declared an intention to track it when I bought it. If after 3 years of ownership you don't use something to its potential, IME it's not likely that's gonna change. Happens all the time esp with stuff related to hobbies. A few years ago I bought a DSLR, never got into photography, and sold it. Sometimes I'll buy a gun I intend to shoot, never end up shooting it, if I'm not too lazy I'll sell it. No big deal, life is too short to feign interest in things because you already bought all the gear.
The very title of this thread admits to being an unthusiast. If I'm freely calling myself an unthusiast, by definition I can't really be called a poseur can I? After you master the spelling you can work on using the name correctly.
I'm going to let you in on another secret regarding personal finance: a million dollars isn't really a lot of money. I mean, it is and it isn't. It is in the sense that saving a million dollars takes time. But using the safe withdrawal assumptions I use, $1 million provides a measly $30k/year in sustainable retirement living expenses. $30k/year isn't a lot of money. $60k/yr is better but still not a lot. My end goal was never to have a million dollars and then spend like a lottery winner, it's keep saving and get to five or six million, or more, plus a paid off house, by as young an age as reasonably possible. I'm not there yet, and if I have a $70k (new, or $50k or whatever kbb) depreciating toy sitting in my driveway that I'm not deriving value from, I'm going to sell it. That that somehow bothers you, is fucking weird. That you think a car determines whether or not a person is lame, means you're a dullard, a lemming, a ... well it makes you lame as shit.
5M sounds right. Here I can probably mamage with 4 as a target. 1M really isnt that much money anymore.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 05, 2017, 10:53:36 PM
Debt for toys is a no no. Debt for investment can increase your ROE if done smartly. There is always a certain level of risk of course. Different people tolerate different levels of risk.
Don't you make payments on a number of your cars?
Quote from: Lebowski on September 05, 2017, 07:41:36 PM
Sure ya can, talk to your local bank about financing.
I wouldn't need to finance your car FYI
Quote from: r0tor on September 06, 2017, 05:22:13 AM
I wouldn't need to finance your car FYI
I'm indifferent to how it's financed man I just don't want to see you miss out on this deal. What will the kids think of you?
Let me build my garage first
Your significant other drives a lot (25,000 miles/year I believe you said). Even with the 4Runner being a Toyota, it's most probably going to start requiring more and more expensive maintenance at shorter intervals given the car already has close to 100,000 miles on it. CRV is great choice for her to use as a daily driver.
I'd dump the Bimmer since you're not enjoying it and start driving the 4Runner.
Basically everything exactly as you said. I wouldn't entertain any luxury brand because you're currently in a value mode state of mind which is incongruent with a luxury brand purchase.
In a year or so if you miss seeing the tail lights of your Bimmer every time you open your garage, dump the 4 runner at that time and get a more sporty car. You don't know what your state of mind will be at that time, so just play it by ear.
Crewcab pickup? Not a truck guy? You can see over traffic and toss all kinds of shit in the back.
Quote from: shp4man on September 06, 2017, 08:57:01 AM
Crewcab pickup? Not a truck guy? You can see over traffic and toss all kinds of shit in the back.
Yeah, let's cram 2 adults, 2 kids, and 2 dogs inside a pickup truck. Sounds like a blast.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 06, 2017, 12:19:25 AM
Don't you make payments on a number of your cars?
The X5 is a 3-yr lease (with a leasing company that we own as part of our group). The GT4 is a 1/3rd lease (same case). All the others are paid for.
Quote from: shp4man on September 06, 2017, 08:57:01 AM
Crewcab pickup? Not a truck guy? You can see over traffic and toss all kinds of shit in the back.
Too long to fit in garage and generally not worth it - I prefer SUVs to pickups as I like the cargo area enclosed (as just mentioned - dogs). If I were ever to get something big it would be Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban family but am hoping to avoid getting something in that size or price class even when the 4Runner is eventually replaced. If we need something that size for say a once a year vacation, I can rent it.
4Runner barely fits in our garage fwiw, and I like to garage my vehicles so that's a fairly hard size limit. I'm hoping there's a 6th gen 4runner coming and ideally just a hair bigger than the current one, or they package it to squeeze out a little more interior space in similar sized vehicle.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 06, 2017, 08:58:48 AM
Yeah, let's cram 2 adults, 2 kids, and 2 dogs inside a pickup truck. Sounds like a blast.
Crewcab trucks are pretty roomy inside. Put a shell on it and put the dogs back there. Plus the kids bikes, toys, cooler full of beer, etc. ;)
Quote from: shp4man on September 06, 2017, 09:16:00 AM
Crewcab trucks are pretty roomy inside. Put a shell on it and put the dogs back there. Plus the kids bikes, toys, cooler full of beer, etc. ;)
At that point, I think a Suburban would be a better choice.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2017, 09:12:57 AM
Too long to fit in garage and generally not worth it - I prefer SUVs to pickups as I like the cargo area enclosed (as just mentioned - dogs). If I were ever to get something big it would be Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban family but am hoping to avoid getting something in that size or price class even when the 4Runner is eventually replaced. If we need something that size for say a once a year vacation, I can rent it.
4Runner barely fits in our garage fwiw, and I like to garage my vehicles so that's a fairly hard size limit. I'm hoping there's a 6th gen 4runner coming and ideally just a hair bigger than the current one, or they package it to squeeze out a little more interior space in similar sized vehicle.
I think it comes out in 2021 or 2022.
Quote from: shp4man on September 06, 2017, 09:16:00 AM
Crewcab trucks are pretty roomy inside. Put a shell on it and put the dogs back there. Plus the kids bikes, toys, cooler full of beer, etc. ;)
A pickup truck with a shell, you've just described the last thing on earth I would buy.
Quote from: MrH on September 06, 2017, 10:53:09 AM
I think it comes out in 2021 or 2022.
Really? That's a long time between generations.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2017, 10:57:03 AM
Really? That's a long time between generations.
Be glad. That's what makes them reliable. My (2nd) generation Tacoma was produced from 2005 to 2014.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2017, 10:53:23 AM
A pickup truck with a shell, you've just described the last thing on earth I would buy.
:lol: Ha, ya, didn't figure you for a pickup guy.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2017, 09:12:57 AM
Too long to fit in garage and generally not worth it - I prefer SUVs to pickups as I like the cargo area enclosed (as just mentioned - dogs). If I were ever to get something big it would be Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban family but am hoping to avoid getting something in that size or price class even when the 4Runner is eventually replaced. If we need something that size for say a once a year vacation, I can rent it.
4Runner barely fits in our garage fwiw, and I like to garage my vehicles so that's a fairly hard size limit. I'm hoping there's a 6th gen 4runner coming and ideally just a hair bigger than the current one, or they package it to squeeze out a little more interior space in similar sized vehicle.
I wouldn't count on greatly improved space efficiency in a new 4Runner, unfortunately. It's already pretty impressive for its size, given that it's an actual SUV instead of just a tall station wagon.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2017, 09:12:57 AM
Too long to fit in garage and generally not worth it - I prefer SUVs to pickups as I like the cargo area enclosed (as just mentioned - dogs). If I were ever to get something big it would be Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban family but am hoping to avoid getting something in that size or price class even when the 4Runner is eventually replaced. If we need something that size for say a once a year vacation, I can rent it.
4Runner barely fits in our garage fwiw, and I like to garage my vehicles so that's a fairly hard size limit. I'm hoping there's a 6th gen 4runner coming and ideally just a hair bigger than the current one, or they package it to squeeze out a little more interior space in similar sized vehicle.
Yea, garage space is key. I've had to re-arrange a lot in the garage to get the G and MKX to fit. We could not do a 3 row crossover or minivan for that alone.
Quote from: ifcar on September 06, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
I wouldn't count on greatly improved space efficiency in a new 4Runner, unfortunately. It's already pretty impressive for its size, given that it's an actual SUV instead of just a tall station wagon.
Yeah, who knows. Each one has gotten successively bigger (like everything else on the road), I imagine 6th gen will continue that.
Teslas.
Didn't go through all the posts, but have you checked out the new VW Atlas? Checked it out at the local mall, and it's stunning. Beautiful interior with lots of room, and you get a lot for the money.
http://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/atlas
Personally I wouldn't go with the beige interior, but this shows how roomy and upscale it is...
(http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/238/2017/05/2018-VW-Atlas-interior_o.jpg)
I feel like it's more practical than the CX-9 too. V6 would be nice as well.
Atlas is bigger than we need since we have the 4Runner and looks like comes to ~$40k+ well equipped. VW another manufacturer I'd be dubious of for the mileage she'll be putting on it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2017, 01:07:45 PM
Yea, garage space is key. I've had to re-arrange a lot in the garage to get the G and MKX to fit. We could not do a 3 row crossover or minivan for that alone.
Every house I've lived in her has had a small garage, ironically this is by far the newest house I've owned (built 1996) yet I believe has the smallest or close to smallest garage. Garage in this house is terrible, it's a 2 car but a small one.
Vulva XC60?
I like the XC60 and XC90. Don't think I want to spend that much tho. She's not a fan of Volvo styling not sure if that extends to their SUVs.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 07, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
Every house I've lived in her has had a small garage, ironically this is by far the newest house I've owned (built 1996) yet I believe has the smallest or close to smallest garage. Garage in this house is terrible, it's a 2 car but a small one.
We want house pictures. It must be cooler than your last house or we're going to mock you.
Quote from: MrH on September 07, 2017, 03:14:47 PM
We want house pictures. It must be cooler than your last house or we're going to mock you.
Better get them quick.
Quote from: MrH on September 07, 2017, 03:14:47 PM
We want house pictures. It must be cooler than your last house or we're going to mock you.
Ha, it's better laid out and nicer on the inside but not cooler.
Oh ya, forgot to mention. Pickups can plow through deeper water that those little car/trucks.... :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 07, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
Every house I've lived in her has had a small garage, ironically this is by far the newest house I've owned (built 1996) yet I believe has the smallest or close to smallest garage. Garage in this house is terrible, it's a 2 car but a small one.
So sad.
Something about military says "big garages" cuz the garages are all built plenty long for my minivan and I've even seen Expeditions garaged.
I understand very well the rationale for your decision. People do spend too too much on cars (maybe not applicable to you), and there is often a lot of non rational factors driving the buying decision.
However, I find the newest iteration of the CR-V to be so damn ugly, that I'm not sure I could live with it.
I'd probably get a VW product in your situation, but if that is out of the question, have you checked out Kia/Hyundai?
Even the Nissan X-Trail, or whatever it is called over there, looks pretty decent.
SUVs weren't really popular until about late 1990s, I think that's probably when garages ballooned. My parents (built in 2013 I think) fit my dad's old supercab long bed F150 comfortably.
Quote from: mzziaz on September 09, 2017, 12:22:21 AM
I understand very well the rationale for your decision. People do spend too too much on cars (maybe not applicable to you), and there is often a lot of non rational factors driving the buying decision.
However, I find the newest iteration of the CR-V to be so damn ugly, that I'm not sure I could live with it.
I'd probably get a VW product in your situation, but if that is out of the question, have you checked out Kia/Hyundai?
Even the Nissan X-Trail, or whatever it is called over there, looks pretty decent.
It's certainly not a great looking car I'll give you that, though IMO this generation is an improvement on last gen, and it's fairly inoffensive from most angles. Thing is nothing in this class is a great looker, and it seems on objective measures the CRV is pretty much best in class esp taking into account value.
Some of the newer Hyundais do look pretty good. Most of the VW I don't think look great (esp the atlas which is ugly IMO), the Touareg I like the looks of but it's a class or two up from where we're looking. Also I'm dubious of VW quality/reliability.
I guess the CRV is pretty competitive.
Are the domestics out of the question, too?
The escape I like the looks of ok but the reviews for it are pretty meh. It's more dated than the CRV and CX-5, too. None of the GMs really interest me. Maybe I'm off base but for a vehicle we'd likely own for 100k+ miles I have the highest level of trust in Toyota and Honda.
The interior of the CRV is pretty nice and the orange is a nice color FWIW. My cousin has one.
The Escape is a really nice drive, but it isn't very roomy, especially compared to the CR-V.
My mother has a 2012 CR-V (first year of the prev gen) that has been a very good car for them. Great mileage and super reliable.
100% understand the mindset. It's been my "struggle" ever since I got a real income. At least 95% of the time, my car is either sitting in a parking spot or crawling along congested city streets / freeways. Another 4% is at constant speed on the highway and then you're left with 1% of the time actually being a situation where it even matters. Not really worth investing so much money for that 1% (and, let's be honest, it's probably not even 1%). I couldn't see myself in a CR-V (a bit to soccer mom) and the Rav4 is shit, but I do like the idea of a Forester XT or Escape Ecoboost (I also like the look of the Sportage, but I assume it's not a very good car), especially since I am moving to Colorado (my Outback struggled mightily in the mountains).
It definitely is soccer mom-ish but don't forget she'd be the one daily driving it, and she is a soccer mom. I'd daily drive the 4Runner which I'm 100% ok with. I'm sure we'd occasionally trade when she needs extra space and I'd be fine with that too.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 09, 2017, 08:38:34 AM
It definitely is soccer mom-ish but don't forget she'd be the one daily driving it, and she is a soccer mom. I'd daily drive the 4Runner which I'm 100% ok with. I'm sure we'd occasionally trade when she needs extra space and I'd be fine with that too.
That makes perfect sense, was talking about for myself. It is pretty clearly the best car in the class, just isn't for me.
Chevrolet Equinox/Buick Enclave are new this year.
Yeah, yesterday I watched the edmunds comparo of the equinox vs CRV on YouTube. Equinox msrp pushing $40k, ~20% less interior space, plus I hate to say it most chevys just look cheap to me. Hard to see myself ever buying a Chevy that isn't a Corvette, a Tahoe, or a Silverado, and I'm obviously not in the market for any of those vehicle classes.
Quote from: mzziaz on September 09, 2017, 11:42:03 AM
Chevrolet Equinox/Buick Enclave are new this year.
The Buick Envision would be a bit closer to the size he's looking for.
Also the optional 19" wheels on the CR-V are a must.
(http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/attachments/2017-present-official-specs-features-etc-gen-5/83506d1491829788-2017-cr-v-19s-1d8f78bacd47217db9bcb659179.jpg)
Much better looking than the standard wheels.
Yeah, those are much better. They're also like a $2200 or something option which seems like a ripoff.
I would def go aftermarket for wheels on the CR-V.... they are all really ugly; Honda has been on an ugly wheel streak lately.
Accord SPORT or any good looking Honda wheel should fit.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 09, 2017, 12:57:40 PM
Yeah, those are much better. They're also like a $2200 or something option which seems like a ripoff.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could go really nice aftermarket for less probably?
Ha, we were driving somewhere today and my girlfriend saw a new CRV and commented on how nice it looks.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 10, 2017, 02:38:41 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could go really nice aftermarket for less probably?
Replicas of these wheels are like $150 each
(http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/116/2015/03/2015-Honda-Accord-Sport-Sedan.jpg)
Also $2k for optional 19" wheels isn't that much when you factor in OEM quality wheels and 19" tires
Yeah, I forgot the new tires.....
Yeah but you're still spending $2200 over what you would be spending if you didn't get the nicer wheel/tire combo. It's like buying a car which didn't come with any wheels/tires.
Not saying I wouldn't do it though. But I wouldn't look at it as a good deal. I spent @$2000 for the old school classic looking VW Beetle wheels and when I asked what about the original wheels which came with the car; don't I get anything for having you (the dealership) keep them. So the salesman came back after speaker with the manager and said he could offer me $100 for them. So I took it :(
Yeah, ~$2k+ incremental over the EX/Touring 18" OEM wheels w/ tires seems like not a very good deal to me. I feel like it should be a ~$500 option.
What's their incentive to do that? $500 doesn't even cover tires.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 11, 2017, 09:57:59 AM
What's their incentive to do that? $500 doesn't even cover tires.
But it's a swap. The cost should be the difference between the wheels/tires, not the total cost of the optional wheels/tires.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 11, 2017, 09:57:59 AM
What's their incentive to do that? $500 doesn't even cover tires.
Seems like playing around with online configurators of different cars, lots of car makers give you a wheel option for a lot less than that. As has been said it's an incremental option ... I think in Hondas case wheels are treated as more of a dealer installed option rather than a factory option, hence the higher price diff?
Oh, you don't get both sets at that price?
Yeah that's overpriced then.
Just buy some Accord sport wheels. I'm sure you'll find some people who buy a new Accord and immediately put aftermarket wheels on. You should be able to find most OEM wheels from Honda pretty cheap.
Or do nothing regarding the tires/wheels. The limited model standard 18" alloys look fine IMHO. The car is for your significant other to use as a daily driver anyways :lol: and I get the feeling she doesn't care too much.
OEM upgrade wheels can very expensive IME. Definitely check eBay for sales history.
I went through the ringer a bit on the G. In hindsight I should have held out for a G with the OEM wheels I wanted. The other cock block I learned is many OEM wheels have a finish that is impossible to replicate by aftermarket wheel restorers (which is the case wit the G's 18" OEM split spoke wheels).
I don't think that he/she cares that much about wheels. Colour, maybe. Looks good in red.
He's a millionaire. He should get Volks or HREs. His lady deserves nothing less for her soccer mom runs.
He's cheap, he said so.
IDGAF. His money, my rules.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 11, 2017, 11:14:26 AM
He's a millionaire. He should get Volks or HREs. His lady deserves nothing less for her soccer mom runs.
YES
http://www.hrewheels.com/wheels/vintage-series/935
:lol: $8,000 wheels on a $30,000 car. I don't think Lebowski is about that hood rich life.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 11, 2017, 12:07:58 PM
YES
http://www.hrewheels.com/wheels/vintage-series/935
If he's too cheap to buy an Acura over a CR-V, he sure as hell isn't going to dish out extra money for aftermarket wheels :huh:.
Generally, speaking, I don't buy and have no interest in aftermarket wheels, they only very rarely look good IMO.
I think as mentioned if we were to change them a set of better looking Honda OEM wheels from someone who wants aftermarket and is selling OEM almost new. I've seen some of the trail/TRD wheels for the 4Runner at pretty good prices, thought about getting them when it needed tires but she opted to just stick w/ the 20" Limited "pizza cutters".
20" wheels on a 4Runner....travesty
Def gonna be missing out on all that off road action in Florida
For my favorite stalker Gougs, looked up original purchase price, like I said I'm sure he has this in his extensive Lebowski file ...
MSRP was $75,975, paid $72,205
2015 M3, alpine white, manual, full leather, executive package, lighting package (ripoff), adaptive suspension, 19" wheels ($1100 option over the standard 18" fwiw, and I'm sure a much more expensive wheel and tire than Hondas optional wheels), power sunshade, side/top cams, Harmon Kardon sound, includes destination etc but not sales tax.
KBB private party 17k miles at "very good" condition $54,858. Looking at listings on the bimmerpost forum seems like like low-mid $50s asking about right. I'd be pretty happy with that range, "eating" ~$20k depreciation on a car like this over 3 years seems not too terrible, not something I want to do every 3 years but I normally keep cars much longer than that and again I mentally depreciate cars to zero the day I buy them so any cash I get out of this move is gravy.
Was at dinner w/ a very stereotypical consumerish, keeping up w/ the joneses type couple the other night. Husband works for edmunds (not sure what he does there). Mentioned what we were thinking about. He actually totally agreed with selling the M3 for the same reasons, likes it but so little opportunity for fun driving around here. But their reaction to replacing with something like a CRV was priceless, they were appalled. "What? You CANNOT LET HER DRIVE THAT!!!!" You'd think we told them I was making her live in a shed in the backyard. Great, and if anything reaffirms the decision.
:lol:
The gap between luxury brands and the mainstream ones is so small anymore. I don't know how you justify doubling the price when they're this close. Is a Lexus RX double the vehicle a loaded CRV is? No, not at all.
That's the thing, mainstream cars these days are really, really nice, with many "luxury" features often either standard or included with the upper trim levels. Leather, LED headlights, heated seats, apple CarPlay, decent sound system, good seats, USB chargers everywhere etc. all included in the $31k Touring trim.
There are some exceptions, like an enthusiast buying a fun car that he gets value out of, but 99% of luxury car sales are image driven. I/we don't define ourselves by our stuff. LamedadSpin!
Quote from: MrH on September 14, 2017, 09:36:37 AM
:lol:
The gap between luxury brands and the mainstream ones is so small anymore. I don't know how you justify doubling the price when they're this close. Is a Lexus RX double the vehicle a loaded CRV is? No, not at all.
+1
That's why my mom was happy to get a $19k Cruze. Compared to her old car, it's loaded to the gills. (Bluetooth, backup camera, etc)
Luxury brands are all fucked up. The two things that matter most in luxury- design and separation from the mainstream- have largely fallen by the wayside. Audis and BMWs are downright boring; Lexus is hideous. The interiors of the compact Bimmers and Jags are not befitting of cars that can reach $70-80K. The place manufacturers have put all their focus on- tech- doesn't matter to consumers. (http://jalopnik.com/people-just-dont-use-fancy-luxury-car-tech-if-its-too-c-1805662158) And tech is constantly democratizing- all that adaptive cruise control shit is standard on Civics now I think. Until luxury companies get back to what really matters they're gonna keep losing. Stories like Lebowski's are probably a lot more common place than we think- the fact that someone who can afford a $70K car sees nothing worth buying at that price over a 4Runner is pretty fucking sad.
Majority of people are always going to shop by payment and are always gonna drive "as much car" as they can afford. We are psychologically wired for it.
Also image isn't just about impressing other people it's about fitting our own image of ourselves. A dude who considers himself a successful businessman, a doctor etc is gonna drive what they believe fits that role.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2017, 10:59:48 AM
Luxury brands are all fucked up. The two things that matter most in luxury- design and separation from the mainstream- have largely fallen by the wayside. Audis and BMWs are downright boring; Lexus is hideous. The interiors of the compact Bimmers and Jags are not befitting of cars that can reach $70-80K. The place manufacturers have put all their focus on- tech- doesn't matter to consumers. (http://jalopnik.com/people-just-dont-use-fancy-luxury-car-tech-if-its-too-c-1805662158) And tech is constantly democratizing- all that adaptive cruise control shit is standard on Civics now I think. Until luxury companies get back to what really matters they're gonna keep losing. Stories like Lebowski's are probably a lot more common place than we think- the fact that someone who can afford a $70K car sees nothing worth buying at that price over a 4Runner is pretty fucking sad.
All the cool tech is actually coming to the mainstreamers first now! It's wild. It used to all start in the S-class, and kind of work their way down to the mainstream cars. Now, the market is so competitive, and things like the Accord is so critical to the success of Honda, it actually has newer and more advanced stuff than Acura.
The new Accord is going to be such a better car than anything Acura makes.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 14, 2017, 09:31:14 AM
For my favorite stalker Gougs, looked up original purchase price, like I said I'm sure he has this in his extensive Lebowski file ...
MSRP was $75,975, paid $72,205
2015 M3, alpine white, manual, full leather, executive package, lighting package (ripoff), adaptive suspension, 19" wheels ($1100 option over the standard 18" fwiw, and I'm sure a much more expensive wheel and tire than Hondas optional wheels), power sunshade, side/top cams, Harmon Kardon sound, includes destination etc but not sales tax.
KBB private party 17k miles at "very good" condition $54,858. Looking at listings on the bimmerpost forum seems like like low-mid $50s asking about right. I'd be pretty happy with that range, "eating" ~$20k depreciation on a car like this over 3 years seems not too terrible, not something I want to do every 3 years but I normally keep cars much longer than that and again I mentally depreciate cars to zero the day I buy them so any cash I get out of this move is gravy.
Was at dinner w/ a very stereotypical consumerish, keeping up w/ the joneses type couple the other night. Husband works for edmunds (not sure what he does there). Mentioned what we were thinking about. He actually totally agreed with selling the M3 for the same reasons, likes it but so little opportunity for fun driving around here. But their reaction to replacing with something like a CRV was priceless, they were appalled. "What? You CANNOT LET HER DRIVE THAT!!!!" You'd think we told them I was making her live in a shed in the backyard. Great, and if anything reaffirms the decision.
There is so much deliciousness buried in this post.
Don't hate them. This "couple" was probably in a not-well-thought-out/tactless way trying to get at the nature of "your" financial decline.
Oh I don't hate them or resent the comment one bit, makes me laugh.
The latest generation of driving age young people don't seem to have the same enthusiasm for cars as the previous generation. Or maybe the same priorities, or sense of a vehicle being a social statement. Many of them see cars as more of an appliance, like a washing machine or a refrigerator.
Quote from: MrH on September 14, 2017, 09:36:37 AM
:lol:
The gap between luxury brands and the mainstream ones is so small anymore. I don't know how you justify doubling the price when they're this close. Is a Lexus RX double the vehicle a loaded CRV is? No, not at all.
I've been saying this for quite some. The shift started to happen in the late '90s. My theory is it can be chalked up to improved manufacturing, design methods and supply chain (which also exploded at that time) - it's simply cheaper/easier to offer "luxury" these days. A classic examples is that in the '50s, electric windows and AC were super luxury options whereas these are available standard on pretty much all vehicles today.
Luxury cars have always been sorta terrible and have always had a dubious value proposition. These days, WtP and enthusiasts have a 24/7 news feed into all models at all times, and reminded of this fact. In times prior, limited ability into the craft added to the enigma of "luxury" cars.
This thread is so very nice and rational. Meanwhile:
"Munich. August saw a new record achieved in BMW Group sales with deliveries in the month totalling 169,913 worldwide, a 2.7% increase year-on-year. The company also sold more vehicles than ever before in the first eight months of the year, with a total of 1,571,467 (+4.2%) vehicles delivered to customers around the world."
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422212
Also, I move to rename the forum. I like it here but a car enthusiast forum, it is not.
Quote from: shp4man on September 14, 2017, 11:43:30 AM
The latest generation of driving age young people don't seem to have the same enthusiasm for cars as the previous generation. Or maybe the same priorities, or sense of a vehicle being a social statement. Many of them see cars as more of an appliance, like a washing machine or a refrigerator.
None of this is true. Most people have always viewed cars as nothing but conveyance appliances with a splash of status. And young people are definitely into cars (google Grid Life).
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 11:55:31 AM
This thread is so very nice and rational. Meanwhile:
"Munich. August saw a new record achieved in BMW Group sales with deliveries in the month totalling 169,913 worldwide, a 2.7% increase year-on-year. The company also sold more vehicles than ever before in the first eight months of the year, with a total of 1,571,467 (+4.2%) vehicles delivered to customers around the world."
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422212
Also, I move to rename the forum. I like it here but a car enthusiast forum, it is not.
If by "enthusiast" you mean "blind brand fanbois" then yes you are absolutely right, this forum is not for that and it never has been.
And Toyota Motor Company is up nearly 7% this month y-o-y.... and they sell a lot of cars... BMW is in great company :ohyeah:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2017, 12:02:42 PM
None of this is true. Most people have always viewed cars as nothing but conveyance appliances with a splash of status. And young people are definitely into cars (google Grid Life).
If by "enthusiast" you mean "blind brand fanbois" then yes you are absolutely right, this forum is not for that and it never has been.
And Toyota Motor Company is up nearly 7% this month y-o-y.... and they sell a lot of cars... BMW is in great company :ohyeah:
You can say whatever you want. A CR-V wouldn't ever be the recommendation of an enthusiast forum. The end.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 12:05:29 PM
You can say whatever you want. A CR-V wouldn't ever be the recommendation of an enthusiast forum. The end.
"The CR-V fits your wants and needs perfectly for the least amount of money and hassle, but because I am a contractually obligated fanboi I am compelled to recommend an X1 or X3 that don't really make sense for you"
Yea, if that's what being an "enthusiast" is about then maybe they're not worth getting "advice" from in the first place. Your only reasoning to not get the CR-V is that you are too insecure to be seen in one :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
"The CR-V fits your wants and needs perfectly for the least amount of money and hassle, but because I am a contractually obligated fanboi I am compelled to recommend an X1 or X3 that don't really make sense for you"
Yea, if that's what being an "enthusiast" is about then maybe they're not worth getting "advice" from in the first place. Your only reasoning to not get the CR-V is that you are too insecure to be seen in one :lol:
Really. We're getting this personal? I'll withhold the obvious reply to that last part.
Again. No car enthusiast forum would ever recommend a trade of an M3 for a CR-V. "Enthusiast" implies emotion. Emotion implies some level of irrationality, of wants over needs, of pleasure over reason, of short-term over long-term.
Then again, this would perfectly match the consumer reports forums (I guess).
FFS, Lebowski himself admits as much in his thread title. Only you, the king of rationalization, can defend this as an "enthusiastic" advice.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 12:05:29 PM
You can say whatever you want. A CR-V wouldn't ever be the recommendation of an enthusiast forum. The end.
Being an enthusiast doesn't mean being narrow-minded. :nutty:
I agree with Hector actually. This is the right decision, but it's not an enthusiast decision. Lebowski, please hand over your enthusiast card to r0tor when he buys your M3. :lol:
Quote from: MrH on September 14, 2017, 09:36:37 AM
:lol:
The gap between luxury brands and the mainstream ones is so small anymore. I don't know how you justify doubling the price when they're this close. Is a Lexus RX double the vehicle a loaded CRV is? No, not at all.
There might be twice as many screws holding the Lexus together.
Damn I'm a Lexus fanboi now
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 11:55:31 AM
This thread is so very nice and rational. Meanwhile:
"Munich. August saw a new record achieved in BMW Group sales with deliveries in the month totalling 169,913 worldwide, a 2.7% increase year-on-year. The company also sold more vehicles than ever before in the first eight months of the year, with a total of 1,571,467 (+4.2%) vehicles delivered to customers around the world."
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422212
Also, I move to rename the forum. I like it here but a car enthusiast forum, it is not.
Honestly I expected to get ripped when I started this thread :lol:
I'd point out though that this isn't really a car forum. It's a general talk forum w/ a bunch of guys who have cars as a common interest. I still like cars but I'm way less into cars than I was 10+ years ago when I came here.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 12:17:26 PM
Really. We're getting this personal? I'll withhold the obvious reply to that last part.
Again. No car enthusiast forum would ever recommend a trade of an M3 for a CR-V. "Enthusiast" implies emotion. Emotion implies some level of irrationality, of wants over needs, of pleasure over reason, of short-term over long-term.
Then again, this would perfectly match the consumer reports forums (I guess).
FFS, Lebowski himself admits as much in his thread title. Only you, the king of rationalization, can defend this as an "enthusiastic" advice.
I don't think a car enthusiast forum would suggest the downright absurd... if anything Lebowski is making the enthusiast's choice and letting his M3 go to somebody who can actually use and appreciate it in the way it should be. Being an enthusiast doesn't mean you have to completely stop making any sense, and as always I still question the value of being an enthusiast when presented with "advice" like yours and r0tor's.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2017, 12:02:42 PM
None of this is true. Most people have always viewed cars as nothing but conveyance appliances with a splash of status. And young people are definitely into cars (google Grid Life).
If by "enthusiast" you mean "blind brand fanbois" then yes you are absolutely right, this forum is not for that and it never has been.
And Toyota Motor Company is up nearly 7% this month y-o-y.... and they sell a lot of cars... BMW is in great company :ohyeah:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-millennials-cars-20161223-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-millennials-cars-20161223-story.html)
Many also are alarmed by a trend occurring among the youngest millennials: Only about 60% of today's 18-year-olds have a driver's license, compared with 80% in the 1980s, according to a study from the University of Michigan.
There's also a shift in how millennials perceive cars in general. Gone are the days when owning a car, the ultimate status symbol, meant freedom and maturity. For this generation, automobiles have become less of an aspirational purchase and more of a utilitarian one.
Fake news?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 12:17:26 PM
Really. We're getting this personal? I'll withhold the obvious reply to that last part.
Again. No car enthusiast forum would ever recommend a trade of an M3 for a CR-V. "Enthusiast" implies emotion. Emotion implies some level of irrationality, of wants over needs, of pleasure over reason, of short-term over long-term.
Then again, this would perfectly match the consumer reports forums (I guess).
FFS, Lebowski himself admits as much in his thread title. Only you, the king of rationalization, can defend this as an "enthusiastic" advice.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 12:05:29 PM
You can say whatever you want. A CR-V wouldn't ever be the recommendation of an enthusiast forum. The end.
Who are you to define and to judge?
Enthusiasts of any craft come in all shapes and sizes and some are enthusiastic about quality and reliability (which by and large you're not getting with German cars).
Plus, the "suggestion" is because Lebowski has to sell. You'd have to be a masochist of the 9th order to suggest the "enthusiast" choice of say a GLA or Tiguan over a CR-V.
Quote from: shp4man on September 14, 2017, 01:05:18 PM
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-millennials-cars-20161223-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-millennials-cars-20161223-story.html)
Many also are alarmed by a trend occurring among the youngest millennials: Only about 60% of today's 18-year-olds have a driver's license, compared with 80% in the 1980s, according to a study from the University of Michigan.
There's also a shift in how millennials perceive cars in general. Gone are the days when owning a car, the ultimate status symbol, meant freedom and maturity. For this generation, automobiles have become less of an aspirational purchase and more of a utilitarian one.
Fake news?
Modern culture has beaten passion, drive and responsibility out of the childrens, and it's a terrible thing.
Blame rising costs. It's no easy task to buy a decent used car and afford gas/insurance while in high school or college. Used car prices are stupid high nowadays for anyone remotely reliable.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 11:55:31 AM
This thread is so very nice and rational. Meanwhile:
"Munich. August saw a new record achieved in BMW Group sales with deliveries in the month totalling 169,913 worldwide, a 2.7% increase year-on-year. The company also sold more vehicles than ever before in the first eight months of the year, with a total of 1,571,467 (+4.2%) vehicles delivered to customers around the world."
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422212
Also, I move to rename the forum. I like it here but a car enthusiast forum, it is not.
I'm pretty surprised to see you post this, to be honest. Didn't you sell your M3 to buy an X5?
I bet if Lebowski wanted an X1 or something from BMW you wouldn't have made this post.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 01:21:29 PM
Who are you to define and to judge?
Enthusiasts of any craft come in all shapes and sizes and some are enthusiastic about quality and reliability (which by and large you're not getting with German cars).
Plus, the "suggestion" is because Lebowski has to sell. You'd have to be a masochist of the 9th order to suggest the "enthusiast" choice of say a GLA or Tiguan over a CR-V.
Hey I agree that there are lots of enthusiasts here. Just that the enthusiasm is about things or pursuits other than cars mostly. Like politics, travel, boating, personal finances, and - last but not least - toy trains.
Lebowski doesn't "have to sell". He's very well off financially. He chooses to sell because as he himself admits he no longer cares about car that much.
So, not a car enthusiast.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 14, 2017, 01:31:00 PM
I'm pretty surprised to see you post this, to be honest. Didn't you sell your M3 to buy an X5?
I bet if Lebowski wanted an X1 or something from BMW you wouldn't have made this post.
M3 is still here. And yeah, choosing a BMW or some other luxury crossover would as you all have so eloquently argued, imply some level of irrationality because that is what luxury fucking is.
So, choosing a somewhat irrational luxury crossover would imply some level of enthusiasm about that car. Who the fuck is enthusiastic about getting a CR-V?
Don't care for a CR-V, but I'd love to be able to order a new pickup. I guess I'm a pickup enthusiast. :muffin: ;)
Quote from: shp4man on September 14, 2017, 01:45:32 PM
Don't care for a CR-V, but I'd love to be able to order a new pickup. I guess I'm a pickup enthusiast. :muffin: ;)
Yes!
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 01:38:40 PM
Hey I agree that there are lots of enthusiasts here. Just that the enthusiasm is about things or pursuits other than cars mostly. Like politics, travel, boating, personal finances, and - last but not least - toy trains.
Lebowski doesn't "have to sell". He's very well off financially. He chooses to sell because as he himself admits he no longer cares about car that much.
So, not a car enthusiast.
You financially extend yourself to buy fancy cars, belong to a club, and do some track days. Buying/financing your way in only goes so far. You're gravely mistaken in thinking you somehow rate any higher on the enthusiast scale than guys who actually work on their (vastly less expensive) cars and know and discuss in length how they work - myself, Camino, Rags, Soup, Sporty, etc.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 01:59:00 PM
You financially extend yourself to buy fancy cars, belong to a club, and do some track days. Buying/financing your way in only goes so far. You're gravely mistaken in thinking you somehow rate any higher on the enthusiast scale than guys who actually work on their (vastly less expensive) cars and know and discuss in length how they work - myself, Camino, Rags, Soup, Sporty, etc.
Hit a nerve? All I am saying is this forum is less and less a car enthusiast forum.
And about the financial aspect I am glad you know so much about me Oh Great One.
One quick question for you though? How many people's lives do you impact in a positive way other than your own?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 02:04:47 PM
Hit a nerve? All I am saying is this forum is less and less a car enthusiast forum.
And about the financial aspect I am glad you know so much about me Oh Great One.
One quick question for you though? How many people's lives do you impact in a positive way other than your own?
You're gonna have to try a whole lot harder than that ;).
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 02:08:41 PM
You're gonna have to try a whole lot harder than that ;).
So no answer then. Ok.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 01:38:40 PM
Lebowski doesn't "have to sell".
You have to understand the history here. My favorite internet Stalker Gougs has had a bizarre fascination, rife w/ wild speculation and recurring accusations of lying, w/ my personal finances ever since it came out some ~10 or so years ago, in a thread about taxes of all things, that I was a TTBer in my mid-late 20s, a feat he had never achieved and probably has not to this day even well into his (late?) 40s. He's extremely insecure about this matter and in general others reaching what he perceives as a greater level of success than him,
especially if younger than him. Old hat, water under the bridge, it's a personality flaw (and not even his worst) we've all long since forgiven him for.
And if he's insecure about that, holy smokes imagine his reaction to your carport. Expect many more snipes like the one above.
WtP never believed you're a TTBer. And even if you were it's all just immoral fiat currency anyway.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 14, 2017, 02:14:54 PM
You have to understand my favorite internet Stalker Gougs has had a bizarre fascination w/ my personal finances ever since it came out some ~10 or so years ago, in a thread about taxes of all things, that I was a TTBer in my mid-late 20s, a feat he had never achieved and probably has not to this day even well into his (late?) 40s. He's extremely insecure about others reaching what he perceives as a greater level of success than him, especially if that person is younger than him. Old hat, water under the bridge, it's a personality flaw (and not even his worst) we've all forgiven him for decades ago.
Easy, bro ;). Though you took some major hits ITT, no one is faulting you for having to make financial changes.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 02:18:44 PM
Easy, bro ;). Though you took some major hits ITT, no one is faulting you for having to make financial changes.
Made a couple small lifestyle changes, having kids tends to do that. Only financial change I have made is accelerating my financial
semi independence.
TTBer = top tax bracket?
What the hell is a TTBer?
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 01:59:00 PM
You financially extend yourself to buy fancy cars, belong to a club, and do some track days. Buying/financing your way in only goes so far. You're gravely mistaken in thinking you somehow rate any higher on the enthusiast scale than guys who actually work on their (vastly less expensive) cars and know and discuss in length how they work - myself, Camino, Rags, Soup, Sporty, etc.
What exactly gives you any shred of enthusiast cred again?
You don't even work on your bike then yet a car
Haven't been keeping up... But have we reached the point where lebowski has completely given up on life and traded an M3 in on a minivan yet?
My buddy has a stickshift CR-V. I think it's pretty cool.
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 03:03:29 PM
What exactly gives you any shred of enthusiast cred again?
You don't even work on your bike then yet a car
He's way past all that. He's graduated to model train sets. :praise:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 01:41:45 PM
M3 is still here. And yeah, choosing a BMW or some other luxury crossover would as you all have so eloquently argued, imply some level of irrationality because that is what luxury fucking is.
So, choosing a somewhat irrational luxury crossover would imply some level of enthusiasm about that car. Who the fuck is enthusiastic about getting a CR-V?
What does a "luxury" SUV offer that a CRV doesn't, other than the badge?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 14, 2017, 03:23:28 PM
What does a "luxury" SUV offer that a CRV doesn't, other than the badge?
What part of luxury (in general) being somewhat irrational have I not been clear about? There is NO WAY to defend the luxury choice on purely practical terms.
Luxury pick = emotional pick.
Having said that, an X3 M40i has about twice the power of a CR-V, is probably more fun to drive (who knows? it isn't out yet) and has a better interior too. Lebowski has been clear about not caring enough about these objective things or the "status" of a luxury ride to pick it over the CR-V.
It's not even gonna be his car, tho...lol
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 03:06:13 PM
Haven't been keeping up... But have we reached the point where lebowski has completely given up on life and traded an M3 in on a minivan yet?
Dunno, will have to ask my kids if they'd still respect me.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
What part of luxury (in general) being somewhat irrational have I not been clear about? There is NO WAY to defend the luxury choice on purely practical terms.
Luxury pick = emotional pick.
Having said that, an X3 M40i has about twice the power of a CR-V, is probably more fun to drive (who knows? it isn't out yet) and has a better interior too. Lebowski has been clear about not caring enough about these objective things or the "status" of a luxury ride to pick it over the CR-V.
Would probably be more fun to drive I agree. But, if I don't get my money's worth out of the "fun to drive" aspect of the M3, it's even harder to justify in an SUV.
I like the BMW SUVs, and she'd love an X3 or X5, I just find it hard to justify and she cares a lot more about other stuff, like travel.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 14, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
Would probably be more fun to drive I agree. But, if I don't get my money's worth out of the "fun to drive" aspect of the M3, it's even harder to justify in an SUV.
I like the BMW SUVs, and she'd love an X3 or X5, I just find it hard to justify and she cares a lot more about other stuff, like travel.
Travel enthusiast. :lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
What part of luxury (in general) being somewhat irrational have I not been clear about? There is NO WAY to defend the luxury choice on purely practical terms.
Luxury pick = emotional pick.
Having said that, an X3 M40i has about twice the power of a CR-V, is probably more fun to drive (who knows? it isn't out yet) and has a better interior too. Lebowski has been clear about not caring enough about these objective things or the "status" of a luxury ride to pick it over the CR-V.
Why does picking the right vehicle for the job make you an unthusiast? It's not even for him... it's for his wife.
By your standard, I'm not an enthusiast either because I stopped driving my track car and bought a practical wagon instead. :huh:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 14, 2017, 03:42:22 PM
Why does picking the right vehicle for the job make you an unthusiast? It's not even for him... it's for his wife.
By your standard, I'm not an enthusiast either because I stopped driving my track car and bought a practical wagon instead. :huh:
If it's not a Bimmer, you aren't an enthusiast.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 03:39:53 PM
Travel enthusiast. :lol:
Yoga enthusiast, baby enthusiast, travel enthusiast. I am a gun enthusiast, beer enthusiast, german shepherd enthusiast. Kids are a surfing enthusiast and a breastfeeding enthusiast.
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 03:03:29 PM
What exactly gives you any shred of enthusiast cred again?
You don't even work on your bike then yet a car
I see. You're offended by my bike (I kinda don't blame you, it's a fair bit obscene) and that I didn't include you. Well, you cause so much drama; most of it because you cling to the indefensible; I went back and forth. After your lobbying however, I thusly slot you in, out of the goodness of my heart.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 14, 2017, 03:43:12 PM
If it's not a Bimmer, you aren't an enthusiast.
Never said that. Me, yeah, I am a BMW enthusiast first probably and car enthusiast second. So?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 03:44:51 PM
Never said that. Me, yeah, I am a BMW enthusiast first probably and car enthusiast second. So?
I was being slightly sarcastic. But I've no dog in this fight. Dogs shouldn't fight.
LOL so much butthurt lately. Hope we can all still be friends instead of personal attackers.... :mask:
(no one in particular)
Quote from: Lebowski on September 14, 2017, 03:33:46 PM
Dunno, will have to ask my kids if they'd still respect me.
They won't... But that's cool!
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 03:44:15 PM
I see. You're offended by my bike (I kinda don't blame you, it's a fair bit obscene) and that I didn't include you. Well, you cause so much drama; most of it because you cling to the indefensible; I went back and forth. After your lobbying however, I thusly slot you in, out of the goodness of my heart.
I really don't give two shits about your bike... This isn't a bike enthusiast site and I could care less.
You mentioned yourself in a context of being an enthusiast like a group of people who work on their car. You don't work on crap. You don't do anything remotely automotive related except get in ford/Chevy pissing matches because it strokes you love of politics and other topics in a failed attempt to stroke your economic ego.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 14, 2017, 04:20:04 PM
LOL so much butthurt lately. Hope we can all still be friends instead of personal attackers.... :mask:
(no one in particular)
Yeah I think we all need a breather, myself included. :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 04:26:30 PM
I really don't give two shits about your bike... This isn't a bike enthusiast site and I could care less.
You mentioned yourself in a context of being an enthusiast like a group of people who work on their car. You don't work on crap. You don't do anything remotely automotive related except get in ford/Chevy pissing matches because it strokes you love of politics and other topics in a failed attempt to stroke your economic ego.
Sure you two aren't the same person? I could totally see Gougs arguing for 6 pages that a 3 series trunk is larger than CRV cargo area.
X3 and X1 feel every bit as benign as a CRV
Quote from: Lebowski on September 14, 2017, 04:33:40 PM
Sure you two aren't the same person? I could totally see Gougs arguing for 6 pages that a 3 series trunk is larger than CRV cargo area.
I don't have nearly enough love of trains to pull that off
Quote from: 2o6 on September 14, 2017, 04:35:28 PM
X3 and X1 feel every bit as benign as a CRV
The bimmers ride stiffer and at least the X3 has a much larger hp potential
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 04:38:51 PM
The bimmers ride stiffer and at least the X3 has a much larger hp potential
I've driven so many of the damn things.
They're quick, with dead steering and an isolated, quiet ride. It's not really sporty nor is it meant to be. Even the M sport models are lame and compromised.
The Honda isn't very remarkable to drive, but it's not bad, cheap, and reliable.
And the x1 is too small. It's like driving a MINI with worse inputs
The X1 is small. I haven't been in one I that I can recall (prob poked my head in at the dealership at some point) but just looking at the specs it's way smaller than the CRV, probably dealbreaker just on size plus it's gonna be close to $10k more well equipped, and I imagine less reliable and overall more expensive to own over 100k+ miles.
Quote from: r0tor on September 14, 2017, 03:06:13 PM
Haven't been keeping up... But have we reached the point where lebowski has completely given up on life and traded an M3 in on a minivan yet?
Not sure what you mean. You drive a sports car and have given up on life, so I don't see how the two things are related.
And yea Cougs talking about working on cars is pretty laughable. Same guy who deifies OEMs, shits on the aftermarket and takes his bicycles in to get worked on lol.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 14, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
I've driven so many of the damn things.
They're quick, with dead steering and an isolated, quiet ride. It's not really sporty nor is it meant to be. Even the M sport models are lame and compromised.
The Honda isn't very remarkable to drive, but it's not bad, cheap, and reliable.
I thought the X4 M40i I had for a couple of days was pretty fun to drive. That trim wasn´t available on the X3, but will be on the new one. There´s also a full on X3M coming soon with an evolution of the M4 engine.
Even our X5 can be fun on a mountain road too.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 14, 2017, 05:48:01 PM
I thought the X4 M40i I had for a couple of days was pretty fun to drive. That trim wasn´t available on the X3, but will be on the new one. There´s also a full on X3M coming soon with an evolution of the M4 engine.
Even our X5 can be fun on a mountain road too.
Those are very expensive cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 14, 2017, 05:37:00 PM
Not sure what you mean. You drive a sports car and have given up on life, so I don't see how the two things are related.
Don't remember giving up on life
This thread :lol:
Quote from: Rich on September 14, 2017, 06:32:29 PM
This thread :lol:
It's 'SPIN thread roulette! Pick your poison:
Are you a non-enthusiast?
Are you having financial issues and have to sell your hot rod?
Are you a hater of CUVs?
Are you a hater of bicycles?
Are you a claimant of TTBism?
You must weigh in.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 14, 2017, 08:32:40 PM
It's 'SPIN thread roulette! Pick your poison:
Are you a non-enthusiast?
Are you having financial issues and have to sell your hot rod?
Are you a hater of CUVs?
Are you a hater of bicycles?
Are you a claimant of TTBism?
You must weigh in.
Are you angry?
Are you insecure?
Are you prone to jealousy?
Are you not very good at losing an argument, digging deeper into wrong rather than learning something new?
Have you given up on life?
If you've answered yes to all the above, could be either Rotor or Gougs it's hard to tell the difference these days. Are they the same person?
How about a Dodge Journey? Or is that too racey?
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 05:17:07 AM
How about a Dodge Journey? Or is that too racey
Has less space than a 3-series.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 05:22:45 AM
Has less space than a 3-series.
It can fit a kayak thanks to its innovative fold flat front seat!
(http://bestride.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2014-Dodge-Journey-cargo.jpg)
I miss the fold flat front seat in the Rabbit. That thing was surprisingly versatile.
A fold flat front would be nice I'm not gonna lie. Put it on the list.
Don't you dare buy a Chrysler product. :lol:
No, seriously. Don't.
That was sarcasm, I would not buy a Chrysler.
This thread is beautiful. It has it all.
Quote from: MrH on September 15, 2017, 08:17:15 AM
This thread is beautiful. It has it all.
Can always count on Gougs' predicable inferiority complex to spice up any thread I'm involved in.
Quote from: MrH on September 15, 2017, 08:17:15 AM
This thread is beautiful. It has it all.
:lol: :popcorn:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 09:28:09 AM
Can always count on Gougs' predicable inferiority complex to spice up any thread I'm involved in.
IDK bro, making financially prudent decisions is usually the beginning of one's downfall. I think he's on to something. If you needed a couple of dollars you shoulda hollered. Bank of CarSPIN can get you a good rate.
New contender. Vulva XC40?
http://jalopnik.com/2018-volvo-xc40-this-is-it-1814437434
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 09:38:50 AM
IDK bro, making financially prudent decisions is usually the beginning of one's downfall. I think he's on to something. If you needed a couple of dollars you shoulda hollered. Bank of CarSPIN can get you a good rate.
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 09:38:50 AM
IDK bro, making financially prudent decisions is usually the beginning of one's downfall. I think he's on to something. If you needed a couple of dollars you shoulda hollered. Bank of CarSPIN can get you a good rate.
Hmmm, cash out refi on the M3? Hadn't thought of that, but might give me the breathing room I apparently "need".
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 10:24:12 AM
Hmmm, cash out refi on the M3? Hadn't thought of that, but might give me the breathing room I apparently "need".
Like I said our rates are awesome. Thanks to dazzleman we basically have a direct line to the Fed. And in any case there's no price you can put on a child's admiration... please don't let r0tor down.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 15, 2017, 09:56:41 AM
New contender. Vulva XC40?
http://jalopnik.com/2018-volvo-xc40-this-is-it-1814437434
Looks really good...
(https://s26.postimg.org/6sacoeeyx/2018_volvo.jpg)
Quote from: Rockraven on September 15, 2017, 09:56:41 AM
New contender. Vulva XC40?
http://jalopnik.com/2018-volvo-xc40-this-is-it-1814437434
I'm guessing it's too small?
I like the XC60 and XC90 and some of volvos wagons as well. She's not a Volvo fan though, and from value perspective like the other premium brands, it's gonna be more than the Honda and not sure I have any interest in paying up for the brand.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 11:25:34 AM
Like I said our rates are awesome. Thanks to dazzleman we basically have a direct line to the Fed. And in any case there's no price you can put on a child's admiration... please don't let r0tor down.
on FIIIIRE
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 11:25:34 AM
Like I said our rates are awesome. Thanks to dazzleman we basically have a direct line to the Fed. And in any case there's no price you can put on a child's admiration... please don't let r0tor down.
As this is a distressed situation, I would expect that to be reflected in the rate.
Maybe Rotor would be willing to underwrite it, if I default he can take possession of the car and his kids will start liking him?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 11:25:34 AM
Like I said our rates are awesome. Thanks to dazzleman we basically have a direct line to the Fed. And in any case there's no price you can put on a child's admiration... please don't let r0tor down.
:lol: :lol:
Saw a new XC60 exhibited this morning at the airport. Gorgeous.
The XC60 and XC40 are small
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 15, 2017, 01:45:40 PM
Saw a new XC60 exhibited this morning at the airport. Gorgeous.
He just said that he's too cheap to pay for a Volvo, so I guess it's out.
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 02:38:22 PM
So is a Crv - shrug-
We've established this from the first fucking page; compared to these cars, it's not.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 15, 2017, 02:46:52 PM
We've established this from the first fucking page; compared to these cars, it's not.
The XC60 is small, but the CRV is large... But the XC60 is physically larger than the CRV
I love the space warp that is carspinnia
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 15, 2017, 02:45:07 PM
He just said that he's too cheap to pay for a Volvo, so I guess it's out.
Come on, he can barely afford meatballs for his spaghetti
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 02:50:56 PM
The XC60 is small, but the CRV is large... But the XC60 is physically larger than the CRV
I love the space warp that is carspinnia
Interior wise, the XC60 is tighter inside than the CR-V.
I haven't looked closely at the interior of a XC60, so can't really say. From the exterior pics alone can tell that XC40 is pretty small. CRV has plenty of space, but as Rotor has already informed us less space than a 3-series trunk. I think for us to have enough space we're gonna end up having to take Rotor's original advice of keeping the M3 and replacing the 4Runner with the much larger X1. Thank you Rotor for clearing up that space warp.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 15, 2017, 02:53:02 PM
Interior wise, the XC60 is tighter inside than the CR-V.
No
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 02:50:56 PM
The XC60 is small, but the CRV is large... But the XC60 is physically larger than the CRV
I love the space warp that is carspinnia
On the outside, yes the XC60 is bigger
On the inside, the only dimension the XC60 beats the CR-V is hip room. Problem with that is it beats it there by 2", while being 7" wider outside. CR-V even has more shoulder room front and back, and more cargo room.
Edmunds data (https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401582889%7Csuv&veh2=401718382%7Csuv&show=0&comparatorId=6494812)
So now you get to explain to us what the benefits are of a car that is bigger outside and smaller inside for someone who stated that interior space is a priority. After that you can explain why it makes sense to pay what will probably be about 2x as much for an equally equipped car from a brand Lebowski doesn't even like.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 02:56:35 PM
I haven't looked closely at the interior of a XC60, so can't really say. From the exterior pics alone can tell that XC40 is pretty small. CRV has plenty of space, but as Rotor has already informed us less space than a 3-series trunk. I think for us to have enough space we're gonna end up having to take Rotor's original advice of keeping the M3 and replacing the 4Runner with the much larger X1. Thank you Rotor for clearing up that space warp.
The XC40 is an X1 competitor. It's a subcompact luxury crossover.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 15, 2017, 03:01:05 PM
The XC40 is an X1 competitor. It's a subcompact luxury crossover.
So by Rotorlogic that makes the XC40 larger than an XC60 which is larger than a CRV which is smaller than a ford focus which is larger than a jeep grand Cherokee?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 02:59:50 PM
On the outside, yes the XC60 is bigger
On the inside, the only dimension the XC60 beats the CR-V is hip room. Problem with that is it beats it there by 2", while being 7" wider outside. CR-V even has more shoulder room front and back, and more cargo room.
Edmunds data (https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=401582889%7Csuv&veh2=401718382%7Csuv&show=0&comparatorId=6494812)
So now you get to explain to us what the benefits are of a car that is bigger outside and smaller inside for someone who stated that interior space is a priority. After that you can explain why it makes sense to pay what will probably be about 2x as much for an equally equipped car from a brand Lebowski doesn't even like.
You forgot front legroom... Hip room and legroom are usually important when seating people
Quote from: 2o6 on September 15, 2017, 03:00:16 PM
Yes. Both numerically and by feel.
Which numerals? Similar head and shoulder room, similar leg room, less hip room? Arebic numerals? Roman numerals? CarSPINia numerals?
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 04:20:14 PM
You forgot front legroom... Hip room and legroom are usually important when seating people
I'm sure his wife has a hard time with front seat legroom...
Quote from: 68_427 on September 15, 2017, 04:30:26 PM
I'm sure his wife has a hard time with front seat legroom...
Are those roof mounted goal posts your sporting?
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 04:34:49 PM
Are those roof mounted goal posts your sporting?
You're* arguing in favor of probably the least important dimensions with regards to his wife, the one who will be daily driving this vehicle.
CRV has plenty of legroom both front and rear plus XC60 has never been in the running :huh:
Quote from: 68_427 on September 15, 2017, 04:47:04 PM
You're* arguing in favor of probably the least important dimensions with regards to his wife, the one who will be daily driving this vehicle.
Oh right, we are still voting for the CRV based on space except for the space around the driver because that irrelevant but what it relevant is its cargo capacity rating which is greatly inflated by Honda adding a little extra height because that is apparently important to Lebowskis wife however the cargo area width and length being on the small side is not of a concern to his wife
I keep forgetting these things... Carry on
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 05:04:16 PM
Oh right, we are still voting for the CRV based on space except for the space around the driver because that irrelevant but what it relevant is its cargo capacity rating which is greatly inflated by Honda adding a little extra height because that is apparently important to Lebowskis wife however the cargo area width and length being on the small side is not of a concern to his wife
I keep forgetting these things... Carry on
Why are you so involved/concerned here?
If you really care all that much, go look at it in person the CRV interior space including both front and rear seat room/comfort and cargo capacity is surprisingly roomy for a vehicle of its exterior size (which is a factor due to garage space) as well as all other relevant factors including price/value/efficiency/reliability/comfort/features etc. XC60 is in a totally different class, hasn't been in the running, and a result is largely irrelevant.
CRV is a pretty compelling package all of the above considered. Believe me I did not go into this thinking "gee I hope the CRV is the winner" and was sorta hoping to land on something a bit less boring, but when looking at the closest and arguably less boring alternative the CX-5 the CRV was the clear winner in both of our opinions. I'm open to other ideas hence the thread but suggesting something larger and $20k more expensive as well as trying to argue a sedan is more practical when a) no its not, b) OP specifically stated she wants to drive an SUV and c) with 2 large dogs it especially isnt as practical, isn't all that helpful.
I get it, you're angry and much like your 'SpinTwin Gougs not very good at losing arguments but move on with your life man.
Bottom line the 4Runner better fits my needs than the M3 and a smaller/newer SUV better fits her needs than the 4Runner, that that bothers you so much is weird.
a 37x40 cargo area is not large at all... good luck
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 05:27:19 PM
a 37x40 cargo area is not large at all
So don't buy one :huh:
It's large enough for her, esp having a larger vehicle in the household, which is all that matters.
Also you're the guy who recommended the SMALLER X1. You're all over the place.
... Might like to know a Cx5 behind the rear seats is 38x41.3...
I would assume the wife would care about putting stuff behind the kids the the 2nd row
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 05:30:03 PM
So don't buy one :huh:
It's large enough for her, esp having a larger vehicle in the household, which is all that matters.
Also you're the guy who recommended the SMALLER X1. You're all over the place.
Oh sorry, the X1 cargo area is only 36x40... Clearly that's way too small
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 05:35:06 PM
... Might like to know a Cx5 behind the rear seats is 38x41.3...
I would assume the wife would care about putting stuff behind the kids the the 2nd row
And yet the CRV cargo volume is significantly larger. Go look at both of them and you wouldn't be arguing this point.
Of course she does ... I think 10 standard carry-ons back there will do. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-cr-v-in-depth-model-review-2017-honda-cr-v-cargo-space-and-storage-review-car-and-driver-page-7
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 05:52:27 PM
Oh sorry, the X1 cargo area is only 36x40... Clearly that's way too small
You recommended X1 as replacement for the 4Runner. You were certain a 3 series and X1 had plenty of space for us and are now arguing a CRV + 4Runner is too small? And CRV cargo volume is significantly larger than the X1 this has all been covered, at length.
Not sure how blunt I can be about this - your input ITT is not helpful and the degree of interest you have in this is weird. Start a new thread and stop posting in mine.
Quote from: MrH on September 15, 2017, 08:17:15 AM
This thread is beautiful. It has it all.
What's your financial burden, what are you selling as a result, and what will you be stepping down into?
Quote from: GoCougs on September 15, 2017, 06:05:49 PM
What's your financial burden, what are you selling as a result, and what will you be stepping down into?
"Weird? Did someone just say weird? Can't have the angry persona encroaching on the strange/creepy one" ... (logs out Rotor account logs in Gougs).
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
And yet the CRV cargo volume is significantly larger. Go look at both of them and you wouldn't be arguing this point.
Of course she does ... I think 10 standard carry-ons back there will do. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-cr-v-in-depth-model-review-2017-honda-cr-v-cargo-space-and-storage-review-car-and-driver-page-7
Cx5 also carried 10 - shrug-
Your wayyyy to caught up in Hondas inflated cargo volume stats
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 04:20:14 PM
You forgot front legroom... Hip room and legroom are usually important when seating people
2 and a half hours and that's the best you could do? JFC man.
For starters, 0.2" is damn near a rounding error. Secondly the spec that matters is total legroom as the front seat is adjustable. Which the CR-V beats the XC60 on.
Anything else?
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 06:28:05 PM
Cx5 also carried 10 - shrug-
Your wayyyy to caught up in Hondas inflated cargo volume stats
So now it's a conspiracy :wtf:
Quote from: r0tor on September 15, 2017, 06:28:05 PM
Cx5 also carried 10 - shrug-
Your wayyyy to caught up in Hondas inflated cargo volume stats
Behind backseat space was your specific concern. 10 carryons capacity back there should suffice, so you can sleep tonight.
Takeaway from that link is CRV is class leading for space pretty much across the board. Compared to the CX-5, it fits more carry-ons with seats down. It has more volume with seats up and down (sorry, volume matters and Honda didn't redefine it). It has more height (good for dogs, good for large or awkward shaped items). It has a larger opening (good for large or awkward sized items). It has a more roomy and comfortable back seat. It has a flatter floor for back seat passengers. We looked at both back to back, wanted to like the CX-5, the CRV clearly has more space. It's no contest.
Your concern is flattering, if bizarre. You're wrong and your contribution to this thread has been less than worthless.
On the contrary, the decision was evident on the first page. This kind of live, interactive, infinitely uninentionally self-depricating entertainment... invaluable.
Have you thought about a hardtop Miata?
Discovery.
Discovery Sport.
Velar.
F-Pace.
X3.
KTM X-Bow?
Ariel Atom?
They have infinite headroom
Lebowski maybe take the wife to test drive some of the luxury options suggested? Maybe a test drive would make it "worth it" to her.
With that in mind: new Cayenne. I'd suggest Macan but too small.
I like the discovery ok but it's in a different class. Maybe as an eventual 4Runner replacement if Toyota discontinues it but that's years off. Discovery sport and f-pace don't really interest me.
Actually: outgoing Cayenne. You should be able to get a great deal on one.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 16, 2017, 07:12:30 AM
Lebowski maybe take the wife to test drive some of the luxury options suggested? Maybe a test drive would make it "worth it" to her.
With that in mind: new Cayenne. I'd suggest Macan but too small.
Thing is, given her mileage ... even if she loved them on a test drive is a Jaguar, Land Rover, or Porsche something I want to own for 100k-150k miles? Don't think it is, don't think a test drive is gonna convince me otherwise.
In the past, as a single guy I consistently drove < 10k miles/yr, and my car purchases reflected that. I think I'm fine with a BMW, jag, Land Rover etc that's gonna see 6-7k miles a year, it'd be under warranty most of the time I'd own it in that case and even after 6-7 years it'd have under 50k miles. I'm not wild about owning these brands for a driver that does 20-25k miles/yr. 4-5 years it'll have 100k miles, I ideally (and historically, w/ the exception of the M3 if we sell it) keep cars 6+ years. Buy an F-Pace with the intention of keeping for 150k miles? No thanks.
Also, wasn't really gonna go here but from an image standpoint ... She owns a yoga studio, I think pulling up in a Range Rover isn't exactly what she's going for. CRV is boring but in many ways low-key is desireable. Yeah, something low key but somewhat more interesting than a CUV (GTI? Volvo wagon?) would be nice but she doesn't want a hatch or a wagon, doesn't really like Volvo etc. Its too bad Toyota doesn't make a smaller SUV that I/we like as much as the 4Runner or Tacoma, as I said the RAV4 we were unimpressed with, the highlander isn't much less boring than a CRV and is bigger than we need etc.
JUST GET THE DAMN CR-V
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 15, 2017, 08:02:57 PM
On the contrary, the decision was evident on the first page. This kind of live, interactive, infinitely uninentionally self-depricating entertainment... invaluable.
Probably, but it's still nice/helpful to have a sounding board. With the exception of one loudmouth, the comments in this thread have been very helpful to me, even if it's just confirming what I was already thinking.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 15, 2017, 08:00:21 PM
Behind backseat space was your specific concern. 10 carryons capacity back there should suffice, so you can sleep tonight.
Takeaway from that link is CRV is class leading for space pretty much across the board. Compared to the CX-5, it fits more carry-ons with seats down. It has more volume with seats up and down (sorry, volume matters and Honda didn't redefine it). It has more height (good for dogs, good for large or awkward shaped items). It has a larger opening (good for large or awkward sized items). It has a more roomy and comfortable back seat. It has a flatter floor for back seat passengers. We looked at both back to back, wanted to like the CX-5, the CRV clearly has more space. It's no contest.
Your concern is flattering, if bizarre. You're wrong and your contribution to this thread has been less than worthless.
If cargo volume is your main concern, it's pointless to be looking at compact SUVs
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 07:36:47 AM
If cargo volume is your main concern, it's pointless to be looking at compact SUVs
I didn't say it was the "main concern", it's one factor out of many and yes small crossovers/SUVs is where we are focusing.
Why is the loudest voice always the least intelligent?
Quote from: Lebowski on September 16, 2017, 07:44:03 AM
I didn't say it was the main concern, it's one factor out of many and yes compact SUVs is where we are looking.
Pointless. Not enough cargo space. You should be looking at box vans.
I see. In that case wait for this.
(http://www.diseno-art.com/images/VW-Microbus-Concept-angle.jpg)
Quote from: Lebowski on September 16, 2017, 07:44:03 AM
I didn't say it was the "main concern", it's one factor out of many and yes small crossovers/SUVs is where we are focusing.
How many have you driven?
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 16, 2017, 07:52:31 AM
How many have you driven?
Not that many. CRV CX-5 and RAV4. Been in a number of the others at one point or another, read reviews / watched YouTube reviews on most everything in the class or similar.
Can Raza or MCM explain to me what bad things will happen if Lebowski buys a CR-V over some unreliable cramped fast depreciating luxury car? You guys are damn near in a full on panic :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 16, 2017, 07:44:03 AM
Why is the loudest voice always the least intelligent?
Probably because everyone else already agrees with you and doesn't have to say so at high volume.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 16, 2017, 08:43:42 AM
Not that many. CRV CX-5 and RAV4. Been in a number of the others at one point or another, read reviews / watched YouTube reviews on most everything in the class or similar.
Are you not interested in any domestics?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 16, 2017, 07:46:35 AM
I see. In that case wait for this.
(http://www.diseno-art.com/images/VW-Microbus-Concept-angle.jpg)
That would be a great yoga studio parking lot piece
Quote from: 2o6 on September 16, 2017, 07:28:54 AM
JUST GET THE DAMN CR-V
+1
Y'all are taking this way too far. :wtf:
Man, Lebowski's about to file for bankruptcy and you guys are all recommending all these expensive choices....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Can Raza or MCM explain to me what bad things will happen if Lebowski buys a CR-V over some unreliable cramped fast depreciating luxury car? You guys are damn near in a full on panic :lol:
Big bada boom.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Can Raza or MCM explain to me what bad things will happen if Lebowski buys a CR-V over some unreliable cramped fast depreciating luxury car? You guys are damn near in a full on panic :lol:
I assume they're not being completely serious
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Can Raza or MCM explain to me what bad things will happen if Lebowski buys a CR-V over some unreliable cramped fast depreciating luxury car? You guys are damn near in a full on panic :lol:
Huh? I haven't even read the thread.
As much fun as the trollololololololing is, I will finally get to the point...
Lets observe this situation...
1) Free-will car ownership of Corvette -> M3 -> used 4Runner / CRV.... suspicious
2) Currently, things seem to be OK with whats in the garage as you have repeatedly proclaimed the benefits of only having 2 cars in other threads. 4 Runner is high mileage and worried about unreliability. M3 is basically new. We start a thread about keeping the high mileage vehicle and selling the basically new vehicle. Again, suspicious.
3) Being stressed out enough about finances that you are looking to make a fairly drastic change of course in car ownership... when if fact your net worth should be changing more on a day to day basis based off of small 1-2% movements in the daily stock price then we are talking about with the whole M3 cost savings measure. This is beyond suspicious.
4) You are hell bent on limiting yourself to non-lux compact SUVs. You are then even further hell bent on limiting yourself to the most spacious of compact SUVs - which pretty much gives you only 1 choice. Moving up to a mid sized SUV would give you more buying options, more *usuable* space, higher build quality (as the compact class is universally based off of econoboxes), and better ride all for a modest bump in price. This is completely irrational.
5) Your worried about cargo volume so much, yet your dogs are going to need cargo area to fit their asses in.... minor indication of poor planning.
I don't *really* know what is going on here, but this much lack of rationality indicates there is without a doubt WAY more to this whole situation... and therefore all suggestions are worthless without knowing the actual story.
Well that settles it Lebowski. Give us the login to your Mint account so we can verify your financial solvency. That's the only way to settle this.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
As much fun as the trollololololololing is, I will finally get to the point...
I'd like to think for your sake you've been trolling, I don't think that's the case.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
1) Free-will car ownership of Corvette -> M3 -> used 4Runner / CRV.... suspicious
Ok Gougs. If saving money and buying what fits your need, rather than buying 5x what suits your needs, is "suspicious" to you, what sort of consumerist lemming does that make
you?
4runner is a one owner car and only "used" by us. Keeping an existing car and you're like "OMG you're driving a USED car!!??". You're an idiot.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
2) Currently, things seem to be OK with whats in the garage as you have repeatedly proclaimed the benefits of only having 2 cars in other threads. 4 Runner is high mileage and worried about unreliability. M3 is basically new. We start a thread about keeping the high mileage vehicle and selling the basically new vehicle. Again, suspicious.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. I like the 4runner, she likes the 4runner, and we have no concerns whatsoever about "unreliability". You're obsessed with selling the 4runner - we're not considering selling it. If for some reason I were forced to replace the 4runner right now (i.e. it were totaled in an accident) its most likely replacement would be ... another 4runner. Replacing a perfectly reliable vehicle that we both like w/ another of the same generation, just because, would be pointless.
Yes, I like having 2 cars for 2 drivers and whatever we do will remain a 2 car household for the foreseeable future, until such point we are a 3 driver household.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
3) Being stressed out enough about finances that you are looking to make a fairly drastic change of course in car ownership... when if fact your net worth should be changing more on a day to day basis based off of small 1-2% movements in the daily stock price then we are talking about with the whole M3 cost savings measure. This is beyond suspicious.
Lol you're a drama queen. I'm not remotely stressed about finances and selling a car I've owned for 3 years and don't enjoy is not "drastic" it's perfectly normal, as is buying a CUV after having a child. I/we live far below our means, we have specific financial goals that don't include driving a certain kind of car, and we are intentional w/ our spending, that means spending money on things we get value out of. Right now, commuting 1 mile on a brick street in a high performance car seems pointless. Sitting in traffic in a high performance car seems pointless. I'd rather have 2 practical cars that aren't high maintenance and generally not feel like I have to baby either of them. That it potentially puts some cash in our pockets is pure gravy.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
4) You are hell bent on limiting yourself to non-lux compact SUVs.
No I'm not :huh:
I've said consistently since the first post since the CRV fits our needs at $31k, anything costing significantly more than that needs to offer objective value/utility commensurate with its incremental cost. A badge doesn't do that. In 14 pages I haven't seen a single post that convincingly makes the case for a luxury suv/cuv. Most who have posted here haven't even tried to make that argument, as they recognize none of the luxury models make objective sense. Most who have suggested such cars have basically admitted "yeah but you don't get anything better with x, other than maybe better styling". Luxury cars are all about the badge, and I don't care about the badge.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
You are then even further hell bent on limiting yourself to the most spacious of compact SUVs
Not sure what this even means. Of course in this class interior space is a factor. It's not the only factor, but getting enough space for her ideally in a fairly small/compact exterior package that fits her/our other needs (value, efficiency, practicality, comfort, features, and whatever else she decides she wants which includes having an SUV over say a wagon which would be the direction I'd go if this were entirely up to me) is certainly a requirement.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
- which pretty much gives you only 1 choice. Moving up to a mid sized SUV would give you more buying options, more *usuable* space, higher build quality (as the compact class is universally based off of econoboxes), and better ride all for a modest bump in price. This is completely irrational.
I'm not totally against going up a size. If that's what she wants, I'm fine with that. You seem to think I should do that because that's what
you want, which is fucking weird.
On the way back from testing the CRV and CX-5 we drove past the Toyota dealership, I said "do you want to stop and look at the Highlander?". She said "not really, I don't think we need something that size".
Going up a size costs more, comes with a significantly larger footprint (again and for about the 10th time, we have a tight garage, 4runner barely fits), gets worse gas mileage etc. If we need it or she wants it fine, but if not I don't see a point.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
5) Your worried about cargo volume so much, yet your dogs are going to need cargo area to fit their asses in.... minor indication of poor planning.
I'm not worried about anything, I'm not stressed about anything. I can and will buy whatever she wants. Dogs will fit fine in a CRV sized vehicle. Fwiw she also doesn't take the dogs with her in the car on a daily basis.
Goal is to buy what fits her needs and not buy something way beyond that. I have no idea what you mean by "poor planning", unless buying a practical vehicle that fits her needs while saving money is somehow poor planning.
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
I don't *really* know what is going on here, but this much lack of rationality indicates there is without a doubt WAY more to this whole situation... and therefore all suggestions are worthless without knowing the actual story.
Buying what you need rather than buying way more than you need is pretty much the definition of rationality. That you find this irrational says some deeply disturbing things about you not me.
Most consumers go out and buy "as much car" as they can afford, all on a perpetual monthly payment. That's not me, and has never been me. Wasn't the case when I bought the C6, the 4runner, the M3, and won't be the case for this next car or the one after that.
I think you've got some serious self esteem / self image issues. Thinking a car determines whether you're "lame", honestly IMHO makes you an uninteresting loser. Thinking buying less car than you can afford is "suspicious" makes you an idiot. Your posts ITT have said volumes about you and frankly none of it is good. For your own sake, go get some help, stop posting in this thread and stop making a fool of yourself. You said off the bat you were "trolling" - I don't think you were, I think you're an insecure idiot, and apparently one who's so caught up with image and consumerism that a stranger buying their non-enthusiast significant other less car than they can afford is somehow offensive to you?
Holy shit. :confused:
This is amazing
When I find something really funny, I do a mean Vincent Price laugh. This thread gets one, with appropriate reverb :lol:
The best/worst thing about r0tor is he ALWAYS comes back for more. No matter how bad the thrashing, he has to get the last word in, even if it means making an even bigger fool of himself. I absolutely love it
Quote from: r0tor on September 16, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
As much fun as the trollololololololing is, I will finally get to the point...
Lets observe this situation...
1) Free-will car ownership of Corvette -> M3 -> used 4Runner / CRV.... suspicious
2) Currently, things seem to be OK with whats in the garage as you have repeatedly proclaimed the benefits of only having 2 cars in other threads. 4 Runner is high mileage and worried about unreliability. M3 is basically new. We start a thread about keeping the high mileage vehicle and selling the basically new vehicle. Again, suspicious.
3) Being stressed out enough about finances that you are looking to make a fairly drastic change of course in car ownership... when if fact your net worth should be changing more on a day to day basis based off of small 1-2% movements in the daily stock price then we are talking about with the whole M3 cost savings measure. This is beyond suspicious.
4) You are hell bent on limiting yourself to non-lux compact SUVs. You are then even further hell bent on limiting yourself to the most spacious of compact SUVs - which pretty much gives you only 1 choice. Moving up to a mid sized SUV would give you more buying options, more *usuable* space, higher build quality (as the compact class is universally based off of econoboxes), and better ride all for a modest bump in price. This is completely irrational.
5) Your worried about cargo volume so much, yet your dogs are going to need cargo area to fit their asses in.... minor indication of poor planning.
I don't *really* know what is going on here, but this much lack of rationality indicates there is without a doubt WAY more to this whole situation... and therefore all suggestions are worthless without knowing the actual story.
This may come as a surprise to the 'SPIN but I agree with all points, save for #4 (very limited agree); and as has been the case since the dawn of teh Internets, an overly verbose rebuttal is proof positive.
But does it matter? Like you, Lebowski has thoroughly enjoyable Internetry in his own way, and it adds immensely to the 'SPIN. I can't encourage it enough.
Of course you agree - you and Rotor are two sides of the same coin, and very possibly the same person.
Overly verbose rebuttal? Dude wrote a 5 (numbered!) paragraph diatribe attacking probably the #1 selling vehicle choice for non-enthusiast female buyers ... as a choice intended for a non enthusiast female w/ 2 kids :huh:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 16, 2017, 09:30:41 PM
Of course you agree - you and Rotor are two sides of the same coin, and very possibly the same person.
Overly verbose rebuttal? Dude wrote a 5 (numbered!) paragraph diatribe attacking probably the #1 selling vehicle choice for non-enthusiast female buyers ... as a choice intended for a non enthusiast female w/ 2 kids :huh:
You put yourself out there and took some (many) bullets. Not many people will do this; most die with their song still in them, and it's a very sad thing. You will eventually be proud for what you're doing ITT, despite that it is tough in the now.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 17, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
You put yourself out there and took some (many) bullets. Not many people will do this; most die with their song still in them, and it's a very sad thing. You will eventually be proud for what you're doing ITT, despite that it is tough in the now.
Lol ok. "Putting myself out there" by talking about buying a practical car?
Of course I'll talk openly here about any car purchase I make, I always have and that's sorta what this place is for. Don't confuse asking for input here as me thinking your or Rotor's opinion matters. Of course it's expected the guy who's opinion doesn't count will be insecure about that and in reaction will voice his the loudest, at least it's entertaining.
Maybe re-read the thread, I've taken zero bullets and take zero offense to anything said. Maybe even at some point Rotor will reflect back on this thread and learn something. Maybe he'll figure out what it is that really earns your kids' respect (hint: it ain't a car) before they're too old. Maybe he'll even figure out what yardsticks of financial success count (hint: it ain't the badge on your car).
This would be so much better if Spinners were in a computer lab making responses to this thread
We do need to do group chats. Like Google Hangouts and stuff. Me vs MrH, Lebowski vs Cougs/r0tor, dazzleman vs Rupert etc
Everyone has a little beef, we need to clear the air
(https://media.giphy.com/media/aabB05cd48fVm/giphy.gif)
How about an X1?
Quote from: mzziaz on September 17, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
How about an X1?
Gotta go to to at least an X5 if she's gonna get any of the "prestige" benefits of the badge, come on now you know that.
(https://i.imgur.com/9hQvWmL.jpg)
Yes! That's more like it. Always gotta be moving up, anything else is "suspicious". Best part is, I'll have to top that again in 3 years when lease is up.
There is absolutely nothing about any CUV/SUV that would, or should, appeal to any enthusiast. The only thing that you get for the premium brands is a bit more luxury and a lot of technical crap that you really don't need; as well as badge cred which is the only reason that anyone ever gets a premium brand.
That being said, a CR-V is a very practical vehicle for the purpose defined; don't really know where the weigh-saving gain compared to the other brands is and whether it would have any negative impact. My preference would be the slightly larger segment with the only practical choice being the Edge, the advantages being a more comfortable ride and better engine choices; the additional interior space being negligible.
CRV FTW although the new CX5 is awful pretty
I'm guessing a Sportage is too poverty for a guy thinking about purchasing a Bentley
The Sportage's main advantage (horsepower) is irrelevant to Lady Lebowski. Sportage SX would be my pick though.
Same.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 17, 2017, 09:43:20 AM
There is absolutely nothing about any CUV/SUV that would, or should, appeal to any enthusiast.
My thinking as well which makes it easy to go for the non-premium option as long as it has the features we need. In a more interesting segment, it's a lot easier to get sucked into creeping upmarket. With the M3, I figured at the time (correctly IMO) that I would have been better served by a non-M 3 series. Thing is, by the time I priced/optioned it out a 330i was like $60k+. What little bit of enthusiast that remained in me couldn't stomach it, and there was a voice saying "just spend the extra ~$10-$12k and get the M". That voice is either dead or indifferent WRT this CUV decision, which makes not spending more than we need to easy.
Didn't mean to ignore your earlier posts ... I don't have anything against the domestics per se, and I think both GM and Ford have improved their products over the last decade or so. I don't dislike the appearance of the Escape, but reviews for it seem to place it mid pack and on paper it doesn't stack up that well to the CRV (less space, less mpg, looks like higher MSRP comparably equipped, not sure how that translates to actual transaction prices). The Chevy's in this space don't really appeal to me. The Edge is ok, I haven't looked at it in person I think the styling is so-so, as you say I'm not sure it has much usable space advantage vs. a CRV.
As far as things like overall quality, reliability, and resale value for a mainstream brand, I tend to gravitate more towards Toyota and Honda than the domestics. Maybe that's an outdated opinion and just my biases but I feel like the overall quality is better w/ the Japanese brands.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 17, 2017, 10:12:43 AM
I'm guessing a Sportage is too poverty for a guy thinking about purchasing a Bentley
Sportage sounds too much like Sporty :lol:
Seriously, I think the Koreans have come a long way. I think we're just barely too snobbish to go that direction but if she wants to look at the Kia or Hyundai offerings I'm not totally against it.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 17, 2017, 09:43:20 AM
There is absolutely nothing about any CUV/SUV that would, or should, appeal to any enthusiast. The only thing that you get for the premium brands is a bit more luxury and a lot of technical crap that you really don't need; as well as badge cred which is the only reason that anyone ever gets a premium brand.
That being said, a CR-V is a very practical vehicle for the purpose defined; don't really know where the weigh-saving gain compared to the other brands is and whether it would have any negative impact. My preference would be the slightly larger segment with the only practical choice being the Edge, the advantages being a more comfortable ride and better engine choices; the additional interior space being negligible.
Legions of Jeep, Land Rover, and dozens of other vehicle fans would disagree with you.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 17, 2017, 10:48:04 AM
Legions of Jeep, Land Rover, and dozens of other vehicle fans would disagree with you.
Might be a handful of them that utilize the capabilities.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 17, 2017, 10:50:23 AM
Might be a handful of them that utilize the capabilities.
Along with the handful of sports cars drivers that do the same with theirs? Or does that not count for some reason?
Enthusiast means more than "sports car enthusiast," and there are few groups more enthusiastic about their rides than Jeepers. Look at the prices now being demanded for classic trucks, or first generation broncos, or Grand Wagoneers, or FJ40 Land Cruisers. This is not because they are useful appliances.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 05:59:14 AM
Lol ok. "Putting myself out there" by talking about buying a practical car?
Of course I'll talk openly here about any car purchase I make, I always have and that's sorta what this place is for. Don't confuse asking for input here as me thinking your or Rotor's opinion matters. Of course it's expected the guy who's opinion doesn't count will be insecure about that and in reaction will voice his the loudest, at least it's entertaining.
Maybe re-read the thread, I've taken zero bullets and take zero offense to anything said. Maybe even at some point Rotor will reflect back on this thread and learn something. Maybe he'll figure out what it is that really earns your kids' respect (hint: it ain't a car) before they're too old. Maybe he'll even figure out what yardsticks of financial success count (hint: it ain't the badge on your car).
Take solice in the fact I will not learn a damn thing about this thread except for the following possible conclusions...
A) your actually in deep financial shit just like the hoards of people I see at C&C who buy something to impress everyone and then suddenly dump the car and disappear
B) you are a completely not even close to caring about cars or driving in general. . The vette and m3 were just "hey look at me I'm cool" purchases which leaves you being an incredibly fake person that came to this website to stroke yourself
C) you are about the cheapest fuck on the face of the planet
My guess it's either a or a combination of b/c... In any event, I have learned nothing of value from your desperate looking actions. Good luck.
C&C?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2017, 06:51:12 AM
We do need to do group chats. Like Google Hangouts and stuff. Me vs MrH, Lebowski vs Cougs/r0tor, dazzleman vs Rupert etc
Everyone has a little beef, we need to clear the air
Our arguments are boring compared to this thread. I don't think we can compete.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 10:58:07 AM
Take solice in the fact I will not learn a damn thing about this thread except for the following possible conclusions...
A) your actually in deep financial shit just like the hoards of people I see at C&C who buy something to impress everyone and then suddenly dump the car and disappear
B) you are a completely not even close to caring about cars or driving in general. . The vette and m3 were just "hey look at me I'm cool" purchases which leaves you being an incredibly fake person that came to this website to stroke yourself
C) you are about the cheapest fuck on the face of the planet
My guess it's either a or a combination of b/c... In any event, I have learned nothing of value from your desperate looking actions. Good luck.
Oh, trust me if there's one thing I have great confidence in it's your inability to learn.
A, starting a 15 page thread about buying a boring/mainstream CUV isn't really disappearing is it? I mean, if I had something to be embarrassed of and wanted to "disappear" don't you think I'd find a more discrete way of doing it? Like, you know, actually disappearing?
B seems a bit ironic coming from someone who defines his success as a parent by make/model of car. Plus wouldn't a Chevy and Toyota be strange choices for the "hey look at me" types? And who goes from "hey look at me!" to "fuck it, let's buy a boring CRV"? Nah, if I were a hey look at me type I'd be looking at just the choices someone like you would applaud and wouldn't have made my previous vehicle choices to begin with. I know plenty of people who are the "hey look at me!" types - none of them would ever own a Corvette.
Further in almost every post where another 'spinner has a "what car should I buy" thread, over my 10+ years posting here I almost always suggest the cheaper and/or more practical or "boring" option, even for people who can clearly "afford" to splurge (i.e. Dave). If you've paid any attention to my posts here, nothing ITT should strike you as remotely inconsistent w/ my character up to this point. As obsessed as you w/ this decision, one would think you'd be a little less surprised.
C, sure if not buying more car than we need makes me cheap as fuck, so be it, I'll wear that badge with pride. Cheap as fuck sure beats insecure and stupid. I didn't get to where I am today by being the typical consumerist dumbass, financing luxuries and saving 4% of income.
What's wrong with being cheap? A penny saved is a penny earned. :wtf:
I'm thinking r0tor is actually the one in deep financial doo doo. He's definitely got the manic stressed out attitude of someone in that position. Combined with his inability to accept defeat or personal responsibility... whew.
But hey, at least his stepson admires his RX-8 :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2017, 11:59:46 AM
I'm thinking r0tor is actually the one in deep financial doo doo. He's definitely got the manic stressed out attitude of someone in that position. Combined with his inability to accept defeat or personal responsibility... whew.
But hey, at least his stepson admires his RX-8 :lol:
Very often people project their insecurities onto others. Rotor's passionate, hostile reaction to a complete stranger making a financially prudent purchase
for his non-enthusiast significant other is certainly telling.
Maybe he has an expensive wife?
It's really interesting that you cling to these comments about being a parent. One of the best things about being a parent is being able to pass along things you love. The best thing about life is enjoying things you are passionate about. Guess what, I love cars. I love driving cars. I love racing. I love working on them.
My son now enjoys taking rides in my car. My son enjoys going to Cars and Coffee events. He sits with my watching F1 races. He wants to to more Karting races with me. Guess what - it's fantastic.
I would be damned to trade passing along that passion for trying to pad my back account by 1%. Again good luck.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 01:14:15 PM
It's really interesting that you cling to these comments about being a parent. One of the best things about being a parent is being able to pass along things you love. The best thing about life is enjoying things you are passionate about. Guess what, I love cars. I love driving cars. I love racing. I love working on them.
My son now enjoys taking rides in my car. My son enjoys going to Cars and Coffee events. He sits with my watching F1 races. He wants to to more Karting races with me. Guess what - it's fantastic.
I would be damned to trade passing along that passion for trying to pad my back account by 1%. Again good luck.
I'm confused - you're saying I should force your interests on my kids? "Sorry kid, I know it isn't very comfortable back there but a stranger on the internet said we need to have an RX-8. Hey, do you think I'm lame?"
You don't need to drive a certain car for your kid to watch F1 or go karting with you. My kid is 2 months old and doesn't know what that shit is. Our 9 year old isn't into F1 (neither am I) and the car I drive has zero impact on his interests or what we do together.
Parenting came up because you brought it up as manifestation of your insecurities around image and material things. Specifically WRT how your kids view you. Don't project that pathetic shit on me please.
When I think about what I want to "pass along" to my kids, the badge on my car doesn't come to mind sorry.
This thread has been entertaining for sure. All this angst over which little Japanese front wheel drive quasi-station wagon to get the wife. :lol:
I got my wife a new Focus. She doesn't like it much. It has no status value at all.
Hey, whatever works. My advice? Ask her what she wants.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 17, 2017, 10:54:34 AM
Along with the handful of sports cars drivers that do the same with theirs? Or does that not count for some reason?
Enthusiast means more than "sports car enthusiast," and there are few groups more enthusiastic about their rides than Jeepers. Look at the prices now being demanded for classic trucks, or first generation broncos, or Grand Wagoneers, or FJ40 Land Cruisers. This is not because they are useful appliances.
There are off-roaders and there are SUV/CUVs. I'd love to have an old Bronco to run the Baja (in my dreams maybe), but anything from a Cayenne to a CR-V has very little enthusiasm related to that kind of activity. Same for what are now called "sports cars". Other than the occasional stop light race (even that doesn't happen any more that I've seen other than just a bunch of horse's asses weaving to and fro in traffic) most of these vehicles are not capable of any competing in anything more stressful than the occasional Gymkhana. Most are bought for the badge value and are driven by those who are far too status conscious.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 01:14:15 PM
My son now enjoys taking rides in my car. My son enjoys going to Cars and Coffee events. He sits with my watching F1 races. He wants to to more Karting races with me. Guess what - it's fantastic.
I enjoyed taking rides in my dad's Camry. Why? OK, it was a pretty cool Camry. All-Trac 5 speed, with a CD player- big deal in 1990 (as multiple break ins confirmed). But here is what you're missing in your infinite wisdom. The car doesn't matter. It's the time and attention. Just for my dad to take time to spend with me and my brother meant the world... didn't matter if we even went anywhere. So this implication that Lebowski's kid is going to suffer some kind of emotional trauma if the M3 goes is ridiculous. Maybe you will suffer childhood emotional trauma from the sale but that's not really Lebowski's concern
This is downright WEIRD man. Is there something you want to tell us???
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 17, 2017, 02:06:14 PM
There are off-roaders and there are SUV/CUVs. I'd love to have an old Bronco to run the Baja (in my dreams maybe), but anything from a Cayenne to a CR-V has very little enthusiasm related to that kind of activity. Same for what are now called "sports cars". Other than the occasional stop light race (even that doesn't happen any more that I've seen other than just a bunch of horse's asses weaving to and fro in traffic) most of these vehicles are not capable of any competing in anything more stressful than the occasional Gymkhana. Most are bought for the badge value and are driven by those who are far too status conscious.
There are a lot of truck guys who are really into shows more than any performance aspect of it. It's a different sort of enthusiasm, sure: but I don't think they deserve to be written off.
You don't need to wring every last drop out of something to be enthusiastic about it.
The degree to which this bothers Rotor is beyond weird. It's like, Gougs level of interest in mundane details of a stranger's life weird. It's not normal.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2017, 03:00:14 PM
I enjoyed taking rides in my dad's Camry. Why? OK, it was a pretty cool Camry. All-Trac 5 speed, with a CD player- big deal in 1990 (as multiple break ins confirmed). But here is what you're missing in your infinite wisdom. The car doesn't matter. It's the time and attention. Just for my dad to take time to spend with me and my brother meant the world... didn't matter if we even went anywhere. So this implication that Lebowski's kid is going to suffer some kind of emotional trauma if the M3 goes is ridiculous. Maybe you will suffer childhood emotional trauma from the sale but that's not really Lebowski's concern
This is downright WEIRD man. Is there something you want to tell us???
As far as that goes, my second son really likes the wagon and has shown an interest in my tinkerings on it. That's a car that cost about $2000 a few years ago.
Does it say something about my financial condition that the "enthusiast" car is an old and slightly rusty family car?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 17, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
There are a lot of truck guys who are really into shows more than any performance aspect of it. It's a different sort of enthusiasm, sure: but I don't think they deserve to be written off.
You don't need to wring every last drop out of something to be enthusiastic about it.
I get how certain people who are passionate about Jeeps and Land Rovers and Land Cruisers etc. My girlfriend is not one of those people. I'm sure there are Internet forums where such people are the norm but in real life they are few and far between. For every one of them there are 100 soccer moms driving a Cayenne, most on a perpetual monthly payment, who couldn't tell you a single thing about or care about a thing other than the badge, maybe the price, and the perceived status/image that comes with it.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 03:14:54 PM
I get how certain people who are passionate about Jeeps and Land Rovers and Land Cruisers etc. My girlfriend is not one of those people. I'm sure there are Internet forums where such people are the norm but in real life they are few and far between. For every one of them there are 100 soccer moms driving a Cayenne, most on a perpetual monthly payment, who couldn't tell you a single thing about or care about a thing other than the badge, maybe the price, and the perceived status/image that comes with it.
It's true. All of it.
I was really just answering Fomojo's assertion that SUV/CUVs have no enthusiast appeal at all.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 17, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
There are a lot of truck guys who are really into shows more than any performance aspect of it. It's a different sort of enthusiasm, sure: but I don't think they deserve to be written off.
You don't need to wring every last drop out of something to be enthusiastic about it.
Well, considering that an enthusiast is someone who is 'highly interested' in something, I guess it's just a matter of degree. I like a lot of machinery related stuff, though don't participate other than to attend a few shows...was recently at the local Steam show; lots of interesting stuff there.
Must've got caught up in all the rancor in the thread and overreacted :huh:.
Anyways, you can still be an enthusiast and buy a CR-V. I consider myself an enthusiast and have driven Escapes for years; but I'd still love to have a '67 Bronco; just to drive around in.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 17, 2017, 03:18:36 PM
I was really just answering Fomojo's assertion that SUV/CUVs have no enthusiast appeal at all.
I think in the context of this thread Fomojo is correct.
An X1? An X3? A Highlander? An F-Pace? Even a Cayenne? They're all grocery getters man. Everything discussed or suggested ITT is.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 03:24:52 PM
I think in the context of this thread Fomojo is correct.
An X1? An X3? A Highlander? An F-Pace? Even a Cayenne? They're all grocery getters man. Everything discussed or suggested ITT is.
Agreed. All I'm saying is that there are exceptions.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 01:31:17 PM
I'm confused - you're saying I should force your interests on my kids? "Sorry kid, I know it isn't very comfortable back there but a stranger on the internet said we need to have an RX-8. Hey, do you think I'm lame?"
You don't need to drive a certain car for your kid to watch F1 or go karting with you. My kid is 2 months old and doesn't know what that shit is. Our 9 year old isn't into F1 (neither am I) and the car I drive has zero impact on his interests or what we do together.
Parenting came up because you brought it up as manifestation of your insecurities around image and material things. Specifically WRT how your kids view you. Don't project that pathetic shit on me please.
When I think about what I want to "pass along" to my kids, the badge on my car doesn't come to mind sorry.
The answer just admits you never actually were a car enthusiast. Your past purchases were just trying to impress people. Admitting that is fine, just quit the whole financial high road crap and admit you just don't like driving cars and want an appliance to drive. We can suggest plenty of boring ass appliances to drive.
By the way, if a badge really meant something to me I wouldn't still have a 14 year old Mazda. Glad you went there, because it really is telling of you.
Some serious gatekeeping going on here.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
...admit you just don't like driving cars and want an appliance to drive. We can suggest plenty of boring ass appliances to drive.
I think all this was covered before you went on this multu-page tirade of deep financial/emotional analysis... :wtf:
Lebowski I hope a small part of you is enjoying the back and forth. It is a thread about trading an M3 in for a CR-V, after all.
If you want my $0.02 armchair busybody analysis, and I bet you do, my hunch is Mrs. Lebowski isn't exactly thrilled at the idea of commuting 10 times the distance you do in the 15 year old beater while you're cruising around in a rolling lottery ticket.
M'right or m'right? :thumbsup:
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
The answer just admits you never actually were a car enthusiast. Your past purchases were just trying to impress people. Admitting that is fine, just quit the whole financial high road crap and admit you just don't like driving cars and want an appliance to drive. We can suggest plenty of boring ass appliances to drive.
By the way, if a badge really meant something to me I wouldn't still have a 14 year old Mazda. Glad you went there, because it really is telling of you.
Jesus Christ. Re-read the thread :facepalm:
Badge or no badge if you think a car is what determines whether or not you're "lame", you're a loser. That you take so much interest in someone else's choice (for their non enthusiast sig other no less) is weird. That you press on unaware of how weird it is, is weirder still.
The thread title says "embracing my inner unthusiast". 16 pages in and you're still like "ah ha! Gotcha! You're not even an enthusiast!" :huh:
Quote from: Tave on September 17, 2017, 03:54:05 PM
Lebowski I hope a small part of you is enjoying the back and forth. It is a thread about trading an M3 in for a CR-V, after all.
If you want my $0.02 armchair busybody analysis, and I bet you do, my hunch is Mrs. Lebowski isn't exactly thrilled at the idea of commuting 10 times the distance you do in the 15 year old beater while you're cruising around in a rolling lottery ticket.
M'right or m'right? :thumbsup:
Of course I like the back and forth, especially when we have a volunteer step in who makes it so easy.
She likes the 4Runner and has no complaints driving it. If it was up to her we'd make no changes, this whole thing was initiated by me.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 17, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
CRV FTW although the new CX5 is awful pretty
Oh yeah, I like the CX-5. But aren't they both a bit small for two kids?
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 03:24:52 PM
I think in the context of this thread Fomojo is correct.
An X1? An X3? A Highlander? An F-Pace? Even a Cayenne? They're all grocery getters man. Everything discussed or suggested ITT is.
For the record, pretty much all cars are. I mean, I'd bet Tave and I go grocery shopping in our sports cars and you did too when you had nothing but the Corvette. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 17, 2017, 04:43:13 PM
For the record, pretty much all cars are. I mean, I'd bet Tave and I go grocery shopping in our sports cars and you did too when you had nothing but the Corvette. :lol:
EXACTLY! This is the most intelligent post in this thread!
Quote from: Raza on September 17, 2017, 04:38:43 PM
Oh yeah, I like the CX-5. But aren't they both a bit small for two kids?
CX-5 is significantly smaller. I wanted to like it, but it's significantly smaller than the CRV. Unless you are using Rotor measurements, and believe this conspiracy theory that Honda redefined volume.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
The answer just admits you never actually were a car enthusiast.
What is the value in being a car enthusiast? You guys seem like a miserable bunch... holding everyone else to a standard they never knew or cared about in the first place, making financial and practical sacrifices to project an image nobody notices. Seems like a fruitless endeavor :huh:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 03:55:53 PM
Jesus Christ. Re-read the thread :facepalm:
Badge or no badge if you think a car is what determines whether or not you're "lame", you're a loser. That you take so much interest in someone else's choice (for their non enthusiast sig other no less) is weird. That you press on unaware of how weird it is, is weirder still.
The thread title says "embracing my inner unthusiast". 16 pages in and you're still like "ah ha! Gotcha! You're not even an enthusiast!" :huh:
Now that we established you spent $80k trying to be a poser, what else have you been lying about... How far does the wormhole actually go?
... Coug's figured this out long ago...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2017, 05:26:00 PM
What is the value in being a car enthusiast? You guys seem like a miserable bunch... holding everyone else to a standard they never knew or cared about in the first place, making financial and practical sacrifices to project an image nobody notices. Seems like a fruitless endeavor :huh:
What does it say about someone that signs into an car enthusiast website driving a vette and then an M3 when he never liked cars to begin with? Poser M car owners usually have a lot more to hide then what's on the surface.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 05:50:02 PM
Now that we established you spent $80k trying to be a poser, what else have you been lying about... How far does the wormhole actually go?
... Coug's figured this out long ago...
Keep running with that narrative. So much money spent just to impress you, Rotor. Keep telling yourself that to stroke your ego and pretend your opinion matters.
Life changes, interests change, priorities change. I like cars and like driving, I don't like sitting in traffic and putzing around town which is most of what my real world driving consists of and I currently don't get much value out of owning a performance car. That you are so wrapped up in this is the real mystery here.
Yeah, he had a Corvette, an M3, and has been a member of a car forum for years because he never liked cars to begin with. :wtf:
Seriously you guys. :hammerhead:
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 05:52:52 PM
What does it say about someone that signs into an car enthusiast website driving a vette and then an M3 when he never liked cars to begin with? Poser M car owners usually have a lot more to hide then what's on the surface.
That people change over time? :huh:
Are you into exactly and nothing more than all the shit you were into 10, 20, 30 years ago? And what about my questions?
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 17, 2017, 06:09:30 PM
Yeah, he had a Corvette, an M3, and has been a member of a car forum for years because he never liked cars to begin with. :wtf:
Seriously you guys. :hammerhead:
I blame climate change :huh:.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2017, 06:12:44 PM
That people change over time? :huh:
Are you into exactly and nothing more than all the shit you were into 10, 20, 30 years ago? And what about my questions?
... We are talking about a decision made 2 or 3 years ago...
And now he wishes for us to believe he is making some great financial move???
I went from owning an S2000 to a Mercury Colony Park and a 15 year old Toyota. I must be using one of them as my house.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 06:25:33 PM
... We are talking about a decision made 2 or 3 years ago...
And now he wishes for us to believe he is making some great financial move???
Ordered over 3 years ago. A little bit has changed in that time too as far as very minor details like number of people in my household, number of drivers in my household, number of dependents etc. Families of four sometimes make different vehicle choices than single guys, shocking I know. Similarly, things that don't really matter for a 6-7k mile/yr driver (LT reliability, mpg, maintenance items like tire life) start to make a difference for a 25k mile/yr driver. Yada yada this has all been explained and seems to make perfect sense to everyone but you.
Your argument is inherently self contradicting - if I was even a little bit embarrassed or felt like I had something to hide I wouldn't have started this thread, would I? Lol the thread title says unthusiast.
The level of interest you have in this is beyond weird. I've suggested several times now you stop replying in this thread, I'll suggest it again.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 06:37:19 PM
Ordered over 3 years ago. A little bit has changed in that time too as far as very minor details like number of people in my household, number of drivers in my household, number of dependents etc. Families of four sometimes make different vehicle choices than single guys, shocking I know.
You already had the ultimate driving family sedan. There is nothing impractical about a 3 series.
Quote
Your argument is inherently self contradicting - if I was even a little bit embarrassed or felt like I had something to hide I wouldn't have started this thread, would I? Lol the thread title says unthusiast.
Your attempt at saving grace was "oh look I'm making a wise financial move". Really it's "I'm tired of my car reminding me I'm a poser everyday" with a little financial desperation thrown in. Be real, not fake. Also, again the halarity of someone who feels the need to hand out financial advice continually is the same one spending $80k to look good.
Quote
The level of interest you have in this is beyond weird. I've suggested several times now you stop replying in this thread, I'll suggest it again.
I'm done. Good luck.
Quote from: r0tor on September 17, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
I'm done. Good luck.
How much do you guys wanna bet r0tor responds again within the hour
Goodbye.
I'm putting r0tor on suicide watch. Something's up with him
4 realz.
Oh I must be a total loser too when I got rid of my Miata to keep just my 16yr old Subaru. Then when I bought a 12yr old minivan.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 05:59:14 AM
Lol ok. "Putting myself out there" by talking about buying a practical car?
Of course I'll talk openly here about any car purchase I make, I always have and that's sorta what this place is for. Don't confuse asking for input here as me thinking your or Rotor's opinion matters. Of course it's expected the guy who's opinion doesn't count will be insecure about that and in reaction will voice his the loudest, at least it's entertaining.
Maybe re-read the thread, I've taken zero bullets and take zero offense to anything said. Maybe even at some point Rotor will reflect back on this thread and learn something. Maybe he'll figure out what it is that really earns your kids' respect (hint: it ain't a car) before they're too old. Maybe he'll even figure out what yardsticks of financial success count (hint: it ain't the badge on your car).
Actually, I am not taking about anything to do with some silly CUV.
Quote from: Tave on September 17, 2017, 03:54:05 PM
Lebowski I hope a small part of you is enjoying the back and forth. It is a thread about trading an M3 in for a CR-V, after all.
If you want my $0.02 armchair busybody analysis, and I bet you do, my hunch is Mrs. Lebowski isn't exactly thrilled at the idea of commuting 10 times the distance you do in the 15 year old beater while you're cruising around in a rolling lottery ticket.
M'right or m'right? :thumbsup:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 17, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
She likes the 4Runner and has no complaints driving it. If it was up to her we'd make no changes, this whole thing was initiated by me.
Having been through the recent having a kid situation I totally get Lebowski's pont about how it can be transformative.
My wife didn't initiate moving to Leon (her hometown) or getting the X5 or getting the nice house frankly. All me. Then again, smart women can get you to initiate those kinds of things and think it was you hahaha! Evolution guys.
For me the love of cars thing has certainly diminished but it is strong enough that I'd rather spend the extra money on keeping them. I also have a kind of long-term M car collecting ambition.
This thread is great. IMO since car enthusiasm is irrational and emotional it's kind of like alcoholism and car forums are like addict forums (not in recovery lol) When someone kicks the habit that reminds us of the irrationality of it all. So here some of us remaining car enthusiasts here are asking Lebowski to "have just another one".
You really have to reevaluate this "enthusiasm = irrational/emotional" premise.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 17, 2017, 10:29:09 PM
You really have to reevaluate this "enthusiasm = irrational/emotional" premise.
I am willing. Give me a counterexample of completely rational enthusiasm.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 17, 2017, 10:47:32 PM
I am willing. Give me a counterexample of completely rational enthusiasm.
How about simple logic - can one be rational about a subject (contextually, financially) yet be an enthusiast? Logic tells us of course. In my nicest most constructive manner, IMO I think you're trying to justify inordinate if not irrational (borrowing) amounts of spending on fancy cars.
IME the biggest auto enthusiasts, outside of professional racers or mega rich types like Ralph Lauren or Jay Leno (even debatable then), are those invested in relative mundane if not shitty (or, at least relatively cheap) cars, particularly, many of them.
Read the first three pages, then the last two.. :wtf:
But have you considered the new XC60? Nice car for commuting, safe if something was to happen, I think volvo offers integrated, removable dog cage/gate and it looks good.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 17, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
Actually, I am not taking about anything to do with some silly CUV.
Oh, we all know that Gougs.
You should have her try the Bolt. It is a remarkably convenient vehicle and should fill your needs with the possible exception of the dogs. (https://medium.com/@ethanstock/after-10k-miles-the-electric-chevy-bolt-is-the-best-car-ive-ever-owned-you-should-buy-one-c61493b47164)
Also, I'm sure the eco friendliness vibe would suit the customers of a yoga centre rather well.
Hell, would you look at that; someone honestly trying to be helpful.
I wonder if the poor bastard knows what he's in for.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 18, 2017, 05:55:55 AM
Hell, would you look at that; someone honestly trying to be helpful.
I wonder if the poor bastard knows what he's in for.
Lol. Everyone who has posted in this thread w/ one exception (two if you count Gougs but hey the guy has a long running obsession with me, his weird insinuations are to be expected) has been helpful.
Quote from: mzziaz on September 18, 2017, 05:51:24 AM
You should have her try the Bolt. It is a remarkably convenient vehicle and should fill your needs with the possible exception of the dogs. (https://medium.com/@ethanstock/after-10k-miles-the-electric-chevy-bolt-is-the-best-car-ive-ever-owned-you-should-buy-one-c61493b47164)
Also, I'm sure the eco friendliness vibe would suit the customers of a yoga centre rather well.
Main issue with the Bolt is I'm pretty sure it will be too small for her. But I agree, it's a pretty interesting choice for someone like her otherwise. Thing gets 1/100 the love Tesla does and is a better product and priced where electrics can actually almost make sense.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 06:01:00 AM
Lol. Everyone who has posted in this thread w/ one exception (two if you count Gougs but hey the guy has a long running obsession with me, his weird insinuations are to be expected) has been helpful.
On the contrary, I've not been helpful at all.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 06:03:44 AM
Main issue with the Bolt is I'm pretty sure it will be too small for her. But I agree, it's a pretty interesting choice for someone like her otherwise. Thing gets 1/100 the love Tesla does and is a better product and priced where electrics can actually almost make sense.
Coming from a 4Runner, the car might indeed feel too small for her. But my wife thoroughly enjoys the car, and puts emphasis on completely different things than I do. For example, never having to go to the gas station is a giant positive for her.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 06:03:44 AM
Main issue with the Bolt is I'm pretty sure it will be too small for her. But I agree, it's a pretty interesting choice for someone like her otherwise. Thing gets 1/100 the love Tesla does and is a better product and priced where electrics can actually almost make sense.
On a similar note with respect to the yoga vibe, both CR-V and Escape have hybrids.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 18, 2017, 05:55:55 AM
Hell, would you look at that; someone honestly trying to be helpful.
I wonder if the poor bastard knows what he's in for.
:lol:
I think you need to suggest some '80's landyacht. Please let me know if you find a nice Roadmaster, btw.
Driving 25 thousand miles a year, which the OP posted is what he figures his significant other drives per year, is too much for a Bolt I think. If she doesn't drive it too much on weekends, that works out to almost a 100 mile commute a day (50 each way). She has to charge it every night. If the power goes out, the next day commute will be a tad anxiety provoking. What if she forgets something at home and needs to go back home and then back to work on the same day.
It can be done no doubt with the Bolt range but if 25,000 miles a year is really what she drives a year, I think it's not a great choice.
I drive 25,000 miles a year. It's not that unusual for me to drive 200 miles a day. What I'm saying is it's not a blue moon event.
Her commute is 22-25 miles each way depending on route per google maps. She doesn't have a typical 9-5 though, so she sometimes makes that drive more than once in a day, and sometimes she works on weekends. She also has some other work related stuff she drives to other locations for a few times a week plus mom stuff, ferreting kids to soccer etc although he started taking the bus this year so that cuts back on driving to school. She has cut back on teaching with the baby but still teaches. And the 4Runner handles a lot of the weekend/family type stuff, trips etc. So maybe 25k miles/yr is on the high end, 20k may be closer going forward.
Quote from: veeman on September 18, 2017, 06:41:32 AM
Driving 25 thousand miles a year, which the OP posted is what he figures his significant other drives per year, is too much for a Bolt I think. If she doesn't drive it too much on weekends, that works out to almost a 100 mile commute a day (50 each way). She has to charge it every night. If the power goes out, the next day commute will be a tad anxiety provoking. What if she forgets something at home and needs to go back home and then back to work on the same day.
It can be done no doubt with the Bolt range but if 25,000 miles a year is really what she drives a year, I think it's not a great choice.
I drive 25,000 miles a year. It's not that unusual for me to drive 200 miles a day. What I'm saying is it's not a blue moon event.
From first post "Her commute is 20-25 miles each way depending on route,".
My wife commutes about 70 miles a day, and she can do that distance three times without having to charge. It seems we probably will be using the car about 25k miles/year, also, and the range is not an issue for us. I think you will have pretty crazy driving pattern for the range to be something to worry about.
However, road trips with a Bolt will be a pain, and you will need to set up a 220V outlet in the garage.
Square one, a Bolt isn't really a good vehicle for two kids and two dogs.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 18, 2017, 07:19:09 AM
Square one, a Bolt isn't really a good vehicle for two kids and two dogs.
That's the conclusion I reached early on hence why it wasn't included. I mean I'm sure we could make it work if we had to by trading off cars when she needs the space, but having 2 SUVs in the family even if ones a smaller one would come in handy.
Kia Niro?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 18, 2017, 08:17:16 AM
Kia Niro?
Looks like it would be too small. Styling I can't really see her going for.
Have you looked at something like the Subaru Outback? My neighbors had one when they were two kids and a dog, but traded it for a minivan when it became three kids, a dog, and a cat. The lady might enjoy the more car like height and driving experience over a CUV--those things get weirdly tall and can have strange sight lines sometimes. Interiors are pretty nice on those nowadays. If you can live with the CVT (I personally couldn't, they're so annoying), it might be a good choice. I know AWD isn't super necessary where you live, but it can come in handy in the rain and stuff too.
She's not a fan of wagons or of subarus. If it were up to me an outback would be in the running. It was one of the first options I suggested before we looked at anything and was immediately nixed ... she wants an suv.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 08:37:01 AM
She's not a fan of wagons or of subarus. If it were up to me an outback would be in the running. It was one of the first options I suggested before we looked at anything and was immediately nixed ... she wants an suv.
In that case, nothing wrong with a CR-V. I've known two people who have had recent ones. One loved it because it was comfortable and practical. The other loved that it was those things, but she drove so much she didn't care for the gas bills. Or maybe hers was a hybrid and she didn't like how gutless it was. Can't remember. I never liked her anyway, I didn't listen closely when she spoke.
Interior is hardly inspiring (RAV4's looks nicer, but then you'd have to deal with the fact that the RAV4's exterior is so ugly), but if that's not a concern, then it's probably a great choice for your needs.
Do you know what year/generation it was? I think the the newer (2017) CRV interior is significantly better than the RAV4 personally. Don't think I've been in the previous gen CRV.
The current CR-V has a nice interior, and both fuel economy and performance will be good with the 1.5t. You have to delve into conspiracy theories to slam it :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2017, 09:21:56 AM
The current CR-V has a nice interior, and both fuel economy and performance will be good with the 1.5t. You have to delve into conspiracy theories to slam it :lol:
Lol seriously what kind of person pops out a baby and then drives a CUV? That's some suspicious shit. There's more to this story.
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2017, 08:28:32 AM
Have you looked at something like the Subaru Outback? My neighbors had one when they were two kids and a dog, but traded it for a minivan when it became three kids, a dog, and a cat. The lady might enjoy the more car like height and driving experience over a CUV--those things get weirdly tall and can have strange sight lines sometimes. Interiors are pretty nice on those nowadays. If you can live with the CVT (I personally couldn't, they're so annoying), it might be a good choice. I know AWD isn't super necessary where you live, but it can come in handy in the rain and stuff too.
Regarding ride height, my wife prefers the higher line of sight. Had to trade the Focus for an Escape because she felt vulnerable sitting so low driving the car.
Newest RAV4 moved downmarket, both in size and materials quality. Feels pretty cheap in there, and the ergos aren't great. The CR-V is a much more pleasant and usefully roomy place to be. Toyota chassis feels more solid and I suspect does better in the snow/dirt/etc...
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 09:23:34 AM
Lol seriously what kind of person pops out a baby and then drives a CUV? That's some suspicious shit. There's more to this story.
If anything, you should be trying to impress your newborn, so he/she doesn't grow up thinking their dad is a loser. You should probably sell the 4Runner, make the woman drive the M3, and get a GT3 for yourself.
I'm only looking out for the best interest of the child.
Become a 4runner bro. 6" lift, 35" tires, high-clearance bumpers, and a spare attached to the roof. Get the kid into curb hopping.
He's already a 4Runner Bro. Can't have 2 4Runners in the house. Too much Alpha for one garage.
Quote from: MrH on September 18, 2017, 12:41:52 PM
If anything, you should be trying to impress your newborn, so he/she doesn't grow up thinking their dad is a loser. You should probably sell the 4Runner, make the woman drive the M3, and get a GT3 for yourself.
I'm only looking out for the best interest of the child.
Well he's bald too. So I was thinking we should get him into corvettes early.
Quote from: MrH on September 18, 2017, 12:51:18 PM
He's already a 4Runner Bro. Can't have 2 4Runners in the house. Too much Alpha for one garage.
I meant turn his current one into bro. For enthusiast cred.
All this 4Runner talk made me curious about it. Not for sale in Mexico, it turns out.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 18, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
All this 4Runner talk made me curious about it. Not for sale in Mexico, it turns out.
But you get diesel Land Cruisers that aren't loaded up bourge-mobiles.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 18, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
But you get diesel Land Cruisers that aren't loaded up bourge-mobiles.
AFAIK we only get the bourgeoise Land Cruiser: http://toyota.com.mx/homevehiculo/suvs-y-minivans/land-cruiser/
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 18, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
But you get diesel Land Cruisers that aren't loaded up bourge-mobiles.
He can cop the Narco package with the gun turrets and center console scales (good for 10kg w/an accuracy of ~1g)
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 18, 2017, 03:54:53 PM
AFAIK we only get the bourgeoise Land Cruiser: http://toyota.com.mx/homevehiculo/suvs-y-minivans/land-cruiser/
Oh.
Well crap.
You get the Hilux though, right?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 18, 2017, 03:55:14 PM
He can cop the Narco package with the gun turrets and center console scales (good for 10kg w/an accuracy of ~1g)
Hummers were the ideal narco vehicle. That market wasn't enough to save the company. Who knew?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 18, 2017, 03:56:24 PM
Oh.
Well crap.
You get the Hilux though, right?
Yes.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 09:23:34 AM
Lol seriously what kind of person pops out a baby and then drives a CUV? That's some suspicious shit. There's more to this story.
:lol: :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 18, 2017, 08:49:13 AM
Do you know what year/generation it was? I think the the newer (2017) CRV interior is significantly better than the RAV4 personally. Don't think I've been in the previous gen CRV.
Not sure. But I'm fairly certain they're both older than 2017.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 18, 2017, 09:40:57 AM
Regarding ride height, my wife prefers the higher line of sight. Had to trade the Focus for an Escape because she felt vulnerable sitting so low driving the car.
That is a draw for a lot of people, especially women, it seems. I'm obviously the opposite. Whenever I drive the S4, I feel like I'm teetering on the top of a skyscraper. And that's a fairly low and small sport sedan!
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 18, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
All this 4Runner talk made me curious about it. Not for sale in Mexico, it turns out.
You don't get the Fortuner?
(http://www.toyota.com.ph/img/vehicles-crossovers/fortuner/colors/fortuner-color6.jpg)
(http://motioncars.inquirer.net/files/2016/01/toyota-fortuner-4.jpg)
(http://newsuvprice.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2018-Toyota-Fortuner-interior.jpg)
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2017, 09:34:31 PM
Not sure. But I'm fairly certain they're both older than 2017.
The new CR-V is pretty nice
(https://www.leithhonda.com/assets/stock/Expanded/White/640/2017HOS020003_640/2017HOS020003_640_44.jpg)
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2017, 09:36:07 PM
That is a draw for a lot of people, especially women, it seems. I'm obviously the opposite. Whenever I drive the S4, I feel like I'm teetering on the top of a skyscraper. And that's a fairly low and small sport sedan!
Same. I need to lower the seats in my car.
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2017, 09:36:07 PM
That is a draw for a lot of people, especially women, it seems. I'm obviously the opposite. Whenever I drive the S4, I feel like I'm teetering on the top of a skyscraper. And that's a fairly low and small sport sedan!
I enjoy getting low as well... but we have been getting our baby shower gifts, including the car seat systems. I can already tell the higher hip point and bigger door/trunk apertures of wifey's car are going to go far in making loading our spawn less of a hassle. If/when we have a second one I would not be opposed to a minivan/3 row.
Update ... Believe it or not this topic has not been nearly as hot in the Lebowski household as it has been on the 'Spin, after test driving the CRV/CX-5 a couple weeks ago we have barely discussed it w/ Irma and everything else going on, until this week. But don't forget there's another person involved that ultimately has final decision....
We just test drove a Highlander Limited. She liked it, mainly based on styling vs the CRV. It's bigger obviously but if you don't need/use the 3rd row, it wasn't THAT much bigger than the CRV, seats also don't fold quite as flat. I kinda wish they had an option to delete the 3rd row to get more cargo space. We took turns driving ... driving impressions, meh felt like driving a minivan IMO. Had more pickup than the 4Runner. Interior on the limited is pretty nice, had ventilated seats which I like. Sticker was $43k, not sure what fair market value is. Mileage 20/27 mpg iirc, not great but better than the 4Runner. On practicality and value I prefer the CRV to the highlander, I don't think the interior space difference is big enough to matter much but at the same time I totally get that she prefers the styling in the Highlander, it is better looking than the CRV and looks more upmarket esp in Limited trim.
Enter a dark horse candidate ... my mom was in town when we went to test drive the CRV/CX-5 and mentioned she'd gladly sell us her 2011 RX-350 as she's looking to replace it later this year. I did not give hardly any thought to this since she mentioned it but Bree brought it up the other day and said she would be interested in doing that. Has ~55k miles iirc, I would pay her KBB which is ~$20k. I'm generally not s fan of buying used due to the extra time and uncertainty of finding a clean/prestine example but I'm not against buying from someone I know who maintains and takes care of their cars, and this is in very good condition. Biggest downside is the color which is "old lady tan metallic", I think actual color is Champagne. Gas mileage not as good as the CRV but the additional savings make that moot. Interior space is about perfect. Styling wise ... IMO it's the quintessential grandma car (between my mom, stepmom, and grandma I've lost count of how many of these have been owned by the older women in my family, in fact my stepmom has a 2010 that she's ALSO looking to replace soon, better color combo but more miles).
I know it's highly "suspicious" to cross shop across such wide a price/class/age range but I've almost always cross shopped random choices like this.
If I was to rank in order of my preferences I would say 1) CRV 2) used RX 3) Highlander. But the choice is ultimately hers. I think ignoring price her order of preference is 1) Highlander 2) used RX 3) CRV (styling of the CRV has grown on me but not so much on her), but she is pretty value conscious on this decision as well. We'll discuss this weekend.
Does Toyota makes RXes in colors other than champagne?
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2017, 12:28:55 PM
Does Toyota makes RXes in colors other than champagne?
I see a lot in white ... I don't know if they will even sell them to you if you're under 50 or male.
See if you can borrow the RX for a few days to see how she likes the infotainment system. The input method is retarded.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2017, 12:31:25 PM
See if you can borrow the RX for a few days to see how she likes the infotainment system. The input method is retarded.
I agree ... we drove it a little bit while my mom was here, she said the infotainment didn't bother her. I agree infotainment of a brand new car with CarPlay etc is a big upgrade. She doesn't really care as much about this stuff though.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 22, 2017, 12:18:43 PM
I know it's highly "suspicious" to cross shop across such wide a price/class/age range but I've almost always cross shopped random choices like this.
Yeah. Something smells. :)
Seriously, if a Highlander at 43K entered the discussion, now you are in interesting territory. Your wife has a very long commute. The interior + the safety and comfort features of the XC60 are tough to look past. All that driver assists may be of use and spending time in that interior, in traffic - so nice!
You say that you want to keep it for 150K miles and that you want reliability. I understand, but come on, what's the real money difference in TCO even if you have to sell the XC60 earlier? Say, 80K miles? 5K USD, 10K USD? That's in the realm of not really being big money, man. A drop in the relative bucket. And all those hours sitting in traffic and driving that long commute. The Volvo also goes well with the Yoga image IMO.
All others note: I am not recommending a BMW.
Go look at that Volvo. I guarantee she´ll love it. That interior is bonkers good.
Most infotainment systems become second nature after a couple weeks.
Quote from: Raza on September 18, 2017, 09:36:07 PM
That is a draw for a lot of people, especially women, it seems. I'm obviously the opposite. Whenever I drive the S4, I feel like I'm teetering on the top of a skyscraper. And that's a fairly low and small sport sedan!
These days, I'd rather be higher up driving in traffic, which is most of the time. Better vision as well as a better sense of security. In the past, I loved the go-kart feel of driving a roadster but, in traffic, the view is pretty grim. Had a crash because I couldn't see a car that was making an illegal left turn in front of me as my view was blocked by the traffic beside me.
A 2011 is a bit old, imo, when you already have the 4runner, so I'd pass on that. Two larger SUVs seems like a bit of a waste for your usage, too.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
Yeah. Something smells. :)
Seriously, if a Highlander at 43K entered the discussion, now you are in interesting territory. Your wife has a very long commute. The interior + the safety and comfort features of the XC60 are tough to look past. All that driver assists may be of use and spending time in that interior, in traffic - so nice!
You say that you want to keep it for 150K miles and that you want reliability. I understand, but come on, what's the real money difference in TCO even if you have to sell the XC60 earlier? Say, 80K miles? 5K USD, 10K USD? That's in the realm of not really being big money, man. A drop in the relative bucket. And all those hours sitting in traffic and driving that long commute. The Volvo also goes well with the Yoga image IMO.
All others note: I am not recommending a BMW.
Go look at that Volvo. I guarantee she´ll love it. That interior is bonkers good.
$43k just happened to be the window sticker of the one the salesman grabbed. I had asked to look at an SE which starts a bit lower, ~$40k. Highlander isn't a very new model I assume can do better than msrp. Sorta looked at the highlander as a let's see what else is out there kind of thing (since we know she doesn't like the RAV4), I'm not pulling for the highlander to be the winner.
If she drives 20-25k miles/yr, 80k miles is 3-4 years. The difference between buying a new European/luxury brand every 3-4 years and buying a new Honda/Toyota every say 6-7 years, over time, is not insignificant.
As I've said, I like the XC60, she's not a Volvo fan but I'm not sure how she feels about the XC60 specifically. Starts at $41,500 a quick look at the website looks like it's decently well equipped starting. I'll run the idea past her if she's interested I'm not totally against looking at them, but as I said above I don't agree with you WRT owning for 3-4 years vs 6-7+, keeping cars a long time is key to reducing total cost of ownership (which again is why leasing is almost never a good idea). Keeping the bmw only 3 years is an anomaly in my car ownership history, not something I'm looking to make the norm.
Also note after googling, cargo volume of XC60 is 31/67, that's actually smaller than the CRV. So if you compare the value proposition to a $31k CRV rather than a $40k highlander ...
Quote from: mzziaz on September 22, 2017, 01:14:07 PM
A 2011 is a bit old, imo, when you already have the 4runner, so I'd pass on that. Two larger SUVs seems like a bit of a waste for your usage, too.
The age is a factor. It only has 55k miles and is a Toyota so should be good for another 100k+ though.
My preference is generally to buy new, and keep cars awhile. A 2011 obviously isn't something I'd plan to keep for 6-7 years. At the same time, it's so far into its depreciation curve that financially it's a home run compared to the other options, despite its age, despite the fact that two vehicles that size is maybe more than we need etc. Size wise it's a little bigger than CRV but smaller than highlander, so I don't think the size is out of line at all in fact might be about the perfect medium.
Buying a used car and keeping for 3-4 years is a lot different than buying a new car and keeping for only 3-4 years, so obviously I'd relax my expectations of how long we'd keep it compared to a new car.
I'd nix the Lexus solely because of lack of CarPlay.
If the RX was a hybrid, i'd prolly buy it.
What if it was a hybrid without CarPlay?
Highlander doesn't have CarPlay either fwiw, they have their own Toyota system.
Have you considered a hybrid CUV?
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 22, 2017, 01:56:23 PM
Have you considered a hybrid CUV?
None of them seem to make much sense IMO - highlander for example hybrid mileage 30/28, not that impressive. CRV not currently offered in US. RAV4 we don't like anyway and the hybrid model gets 34/30 - again not too impressive considering the CRV non-hybrid gets 28/34. A good chunk of her commute is highway.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 22, 2017, 02:02:52 PM
None of them seem to make much sense IMO - highlander for example hybrid mileage 30/28, not that impressive. CRV not currently offered in US. RAV4 we don't like anyway and the hybrid model gets 34/30 - again not too impressive considering the CRV non-hybrid gets 28/34. A good chunk of her commute is highway.
Real MPG of the Hybrids will be much better than the CRV's "On paper" mileage.
However, the price premium isn't always worth it.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 22, 2017, 01:51:13 PM
What if it was a hybrid without CarPlay?
Highlander doesn't have CarPlay either fwiw, they have their own Toyota system.
(I wouldn't buy the Toyota). I think that the RX is only attractive as a hybrid; better MPG than the gas counterpart, and whisper quiet.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 22, 2017, 01:19:36 PM
$43k just happened to be the window sticker of the one the salesman grabbed. I had asked to look at an SE which starts a bit lower, ~$40k. Highlander isn't a very new model I assume can do better than msrp. Sorta looked at the highlander as a let's see what else is out there kind of thing (since we know she doesn't like the RAV4), I'm not pulling for the highlander to be the winner.
If she drives 20-25k miles/yr, 80k miles is 3-4 years. The difference between buying a new European/luxury brand every 3-4 years and buying a new Honda/Toyota every say 6-7 years, over time, is not insignificant.
As I've said, I like the XC60, she's not a Volvo fan but I'm not sure how she feels about the XC60 specifically. Starts at $41,500 a quick look at the website looks like it's decently well equipped starting. I'll run the idea past her if she's interested I'm not totally against looking at them, but as I said above I don't agree with you WRT owning for 3-4 years vs 6-7+, keeping cars a long time is key to reducing total cost of ownership (which again is why leasing is almost never a good idea). Keeping the bmw only 3 years is an anomaly in my car ownership history, not something I'm looking to make the norm.
Also note after googling, cargo volume of XC60 is 31/67, that's actually smaller than the CRV. So if you compare the value proposition to a $31k CRV rather than a $40k highlander ...
Hmmm....value is more than just cargo space. The Volvo has best-in-class (and that's a class above the CRV) interior and safety. The space is either enough for your needs or not, a few cubes don't matter, especially having the bigger truck around.
If I am not mistaken, you are aiming for a net worth of 5M+ for financial security. A few extra thousands over the next 8 years on a nice and safe car for the wife won't be the factor between making it or not.
The point is of course moot if she's not interested. I'd be surprised however if she doesn't love that interior.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 02:49:19 PM
Hmmm....value is more than just cargo space. The Volvo has best-in-class (and that's a class above the CRV) interior and safety. The space is either enough for your needs or not, a few cubes don't matter, especially having the bigger truck around.
Size is a pretty consistent determinant of price/value across categories. 3/5/7 series c/e/s X1/x3/X5 XC60/xc90 RAV4/highlander CRV/pilot cx-5/cx-9 etc etc etc.
Is volvo "safety" superiority real or marketing?
Sorry, the XC60 is nice but I don't see it as the "value" play here.
Quote
If I am not mistaken, you are aiming for a net worth of 5M+ for financial security. A few extra thousands over the next 8 years on a nice and safe car for the wife won't be the factor between making it or not.
We can follow this train of thought to it's logical end. In this case we don't have to - a luxury car replaced every 3-4 years vs a mainstreamer replaced evey 6-7 yrs is material.
She's not a Volvo fan. It's not a car she's begging me to consider.
Volvo infotainment also sucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3FDu8KvXOg
IDGAF what anyone says- physical controls that don't take your eyes of the screen for several seconds >>>>
The Volvo is worse in all the ways that matter to Lady Lebowski for 2x the money. I think if the CR-V cost $50K, had like 230HP and a German badge everyone would love it. I really don't understand what the aversion to mainstream ownership is
Volvo's seats are amazingly comfortable.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2017, 03:53:47 PM
Volvo infotainment also sucks
IDGAF what anyone says- physical controls that don't take your eyes of the screen for several seconds >>>>
The Volvo is worse in all the ways that matter to Lady Lebowski for 2x the money. I think if the CR-V cost $50K, had like 230HP and a German badge everyone would love it. I really don't understand what the aversion to mainstream ownership is
Lady Lebowski isn't on this thread. And if I know anything about women you have to do some "reading between the lines" to figure what they really want. Women who always say exactly what they want don't exist or are men. Would she be delighted to find a "surprise" by Lebowski of a nicer car than expected? Who knows? Maybe. If she's like 99.99% of women in the world, yes.
I don't understand your aversion to nice things.
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
Volvo's seats are amazingly comfortable.
Yes. And the interior is top notch in general.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 04:08:07 PM
Lady Lebowski isn't on this thread. And if I know anything about women you have to do some "reading between the lines" to figure what they really want. Women who always say exactly what they want don't exist or are men. Would she be delighted to find a "surprise" by Lebowski of a nicer car than expected? Who knows? Maybe. If she's like 99.99% of women in the world, yes.
I don't understand your aversion to nice things.
What has Lady Lebowski said to you that would indicate she doesn't want a mainstream CUV?
And how is a fully loaded CR-V not a nice thing? An equally equipped XC60 is not $20-30K nicer. Nowhere close.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 04:08:07 PM
Lady Lebowski isn't on this thread. And if I know anything about women you have to do some "reading between the lines" to figure what they really want. Women who always say exactly what they want don't exist or are men. Would she be delighted to find a "surprise" by Lebowski of a nicer car than expected? Who knows? Maybe. If she's like 99.99% of women in the world, yes.
I don't understand your aversion to nice things.
Eh? I get the gist you generally pick cars out for your wife and just give them to her.
This transaction seems more like a woman deciding what she wants to drive next.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 22, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Eh? I get the gist you generally pick cars out for your wife and just give them to her.
This transaction seems more like a woman deciding what she wants to drive next.
+1, Culture difference is quite substantial..
I'd say the RX is a solid choice for a commuter. But then I drive old cars anyway :mrcool:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 04:08:07 PM
Lady Lebowski isn't on this thread. And if I know anything about women you have to do some "reading between the lines" to figure what they really want. Women who always say exactly what they want don't exist or are men. Would she be delighted to find a "surprise" by Lebowski of a nicer car than expected? Who knows? Maybe. If she's like 99.99% of women in the world, yes.
I don't understand your aversion to nice things.
"Nice" in auto land usually brings along with it onerous and terrible tech.
But make no mistake, ze German (and American) automakers don't sleep well for their inability to build something as "nice" as a CR-V, at any price.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2017, 04:37:52 AM
I enjoy getting low as well... but we have been getting our baby shower gifts, including the car seat systems. I can already tell the higher hip point and bigger door/trunk apertures of wifey's car are going to go far in making loading our spawn less of a hassle. If/when we have a second one I would not be opposed to a minivan/3 row.
I, by design, have no children. So the Z4 still works best for me.
I had another day out in the S4 today. I am slowly acclimating to it. But it's still not a joy like driving the Z4 is. I was stuck in traffic on Wednesday for an hour, just sitting there, top down, blasting Watch the Throne, and I wasn't even mad about the traffic.
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2017, 12:28:55 PM
Does Toyota makes RXes in colors other than champagne?
A champagne Lexus RX is standard issue suburbandom transportation, definitely.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 22, 2017, 01:08:03 PM
These days, I'd rather be higher up driving in traffic, which is most of the time. Better vision as well as a better sense of security. In the past, I loved the go-kart feel of driving a roadster but, in traffic, the view is pretty grim. Had a crash because I couldn't see a car that was making an illegal left turn in front of me as my view was blocked by the traffic beside me.
I love having a nearly 360 degree unobstructed view. I see everything around me. Mirrors are just for show! But yes, especially on the highway, you are unavoidably aware that death lurks behind every other steering wheel on the road with you.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2017, 03:53:47 PM
Volvo infotainment also sucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3FDu8KvXOg
IDGAF what anyone says- physical controls that don't take your eyes of the screen for several seconds >>>>
The Volvo is worse in all the ways that matter to Lady Lebowski for 2x the money. I think if the CR-V cost $50K, had like 230HP and a German badge everyone would love it. I really don't understand what the aversion to mainstream ownership is
To be fair, is there a single infotainment system that doesn't suck, at least initially? I mean, it took me a little while to get used to MMI.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2017, 04:59:57 PM
What has Lady Lebowski said to you that would indicate she doesn't want a mainstream CUV?
And how is a fully loaded CR-V not a nice thing? An equally equipped XC60 is not $20-30K nicer. Nowhere close.
AFAIK You started talking in the name of "Lady Lebowski", not me. The XC60 is nicer. Period. It is not worth it
to you. It certainly is for all the people who buy them. WTF with the universal statements.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 22, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Eh? I get the gist you generally pick cars out for your wife and just give them to her.
This transaction seems more like a woman deciding what she wants to drive next.
You're wrong. I wanted the XC90 actually. She chose the X5.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 22, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
"Nice" in auto land usually brings along with it onerous and terrible tech.
But make no mistake, ze German (and American) automakers don't sleep well for their inability to build something as "nice" as a CR-V, at any price.
I don't think they lose that much sleep.
https://ycharts.com/companies/HMC/market_cap
vs.
https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap
https://ycharts.com/companies/DMLRY/market_cap
https://ycharts.com/companies/VLKAY/market_cap
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 06:41:17 PM
AFAIK You started talking in the name of "Lady Lebowski", not me. The XC60 is nicer. Period. It is not worth it to you. It certainly is for all the people who buy them. WTF with the universal statements.
I didn't say the XC60 isn't nicer. Just not twice as nice. The incremental cost is not worth it.
And if we are going to talk about generalizations I'd think your dismissal of women's ability to make decisions would be a better place to start.
The XC60 is nicer to you because it has a better badge. Objectively, especially in the context of Lady Lebowski's started wants and needs, there's nothing better about it.
Quote from: Raza on September 22, 2017, 06:33:49 PM
A champagne Lexus RX is standard issue suburbandom transportation, definitely.
Paint isn't that expensive. :huh: Click "Images"=
https://www.google.com/search?q=car+paint+jobs
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 22, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
Paint isn't that expensive. :huh: Click "Images"=
https://www.google.com/search?q=car+paint+jobs
wat
:wtf: :facepalm:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 06:46:20 PM
I don't think they lose that much sleep.
https://ycharts.com/companies/HMC/market_cap
vs.
https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap
https://ycharts.com/companies/DMLRY/market_cap
https://ycharts.com/companies/VLKAY/market_cap
Oh, it most certainly does. They can't match that reliability at any price, and it bothers them greatly.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 22, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
Paint isn't that expensive. :huh:
:orly:
Turn your brain on. If it was shruggably inexpensive, a lot more people would change the color of their cars. But they don't. Because it's fucin expensive to do properly.
I don't think it's possible for aftermarket painters to replicate the factory technique where they electrically charge the chassis..
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
I don't think it's possible for aftermarket painters to replicate the factory technique where they electrically charge the chassis..
Yeah, bodyshops have been having a lot of trouble trying to get your paint color on your RF right since the flakes line up a specific way.
Meh, I don't think I've ever seen a fantastic factory paint job. It seems even the most expensive cars have a least a bit of orange peel. Those processes are designed to be "barely good enough" yet quick.
A good (about matches factory quality) aftermarket paint job is gonna cost - figure ~$5,000, and that's without fixing door dings and the like.
A good aftermarket painter can easily exceed a factory paint job, but it takes inordinate amounts of prep and wet sanding between coats and the like. But then you're looking at like $7,500 or more, and that's if you don't change color (i.e., not painting the engine bay, trunk, door jambs, etc.).
Quote from: GoCougs on September 22, 2017, 10:54:58 PM
Meh, I don't think I've ever seen a fantastic factory paint job. It seems even the most expensive cars have a least a bit of orange peel. Those processes are designed to be "barely good enough" yet quick.
A good (about matches factory quality) aftermarket paint job is gonna cost - figure ~$5,000, and that's without fixing door dings and the like.
A good aftermarket painter can easily exceed a factory paint job, but it takes inordinate amounts of prep and wet sanding between coats and the like. But then you're looking at like $7,500 or more, and that's if you don't change color (i.e., not painting the engine bay, trunk, door jambs, etc.).
+1
Not that this should be a discussion in this thread. Never worth it to change the paint on a DD.
I stand by my statement that the X3 and co is just as banal as the CR-V.
The X3, XC60, and GLK are faster and quieter, but they're also a lot more expensive. CR-Vs are very nice, and the gap between luxury cars and regular cars is much smaller these days.
lol an aftermarket color change is entirely out of the question. Good aftermatket paint jobs are expensive AF.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 04:08:07 PM
Lady Lebowski isn't on this thread. And if I know anything about women you have to do some "reading between the lines" to figure what they really want. Women who always say exactly what they want don't exist or are men. Would she be delighted to find a "surprise" by Lebowski of a nicer car than expected? Who knows? Maybe. If she's like 99.99% of women in the world, yes.
I don't understand your aversion to nice things.
Of course she (and I) likes nice stuff. Of course she'd like an X5, a Range Rover, an XC90 etc. But she's not that into cars, and there's other things in life that are more important to her/us. She'd be a lot happier if I surprised her with a trip somewhere than a nicer car.
I don't have an aversion to nice stuff, but I recognize that beyond a certain point nicer stuff does not improve your quality of life, and I've bought enough nice stuff to have experienced this first hand. Again, hedonistic treadmill, read up on it if you're interested.
Believe me, we're not exactly living like monks, we have a plenty comfortable life, live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with more than enough "nice stuff", kids get everything they need etc. But we've pretty much reached the point where I don't aspire to further nicer or more "stuff" (still have plenty of goals and aspirations, they just aren't defined by drive such and such car, have a certain watch etc).
Plus, go test drive some of the newer mainstramers - you might be surprised how "nice" they are.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 22, 2017, 06:41:17 PM
It is not worth it to you. It certainly is for all the people who buy them. WTF with the universal statements.
Is it really though?
We talked about in the Enthusiast thread, the average person is not that interested in cars. Certainly the average person is not an enthusiast, and on a scale 1-10 the consensus seemed to be the average persons interest in cars is maybe a 2 or a 3.
I don't know about you, but I see an awful lot of very high end cars on the road around here. Lots of land rovers, lots of XC60s and XC90s, lots of bmw, Mercedes etc. A good deal of Cayennes and Macans too, and no small number of 911s. Either the average person is a hell of a lot more interested in cars than we give them credit for here, or there are a lot of people with enough money that the purchase makes sense regardless of interest, mathematically I don't see how the latter is possible as if you're not super into cars these are IMO at least top 1%er (on income) or maybe top 3-4%er (on net worth) types of purchase, and probably more than that.
I think it could be argued the vast majority of people driving high end cars would objectively be better served by a mainstreamer. The exceptions are either very very interested in cars or have so much money that it doesn't matter. I feel like the proportion of both of those groups are far smaller than the proportion of high end car buyers.
The average XC60 buyer isn't buying it because it's objectively "worth it" vs a CRV (which has very good seats btw), they buy it because the average buyer has a single digit savings rate, buys "as much car as I can afford" to go with their "as much house as I can afford," and views car ownership as a perpetual monthly payment.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 07:54:51 AM
Of course she (and I) likes nice stuff. Of course she'd like an X5, a Range Rover, an XC90 etc. But she's not that into cars, and there's other things in life that are more important to her/us. She'd be a lot happier if I surprised her with a trip somewhere than a nicer car.
I don't have an aversion to nice stuff, but I recognize that beyond a certain point nicer stuff does not improve your quality of life, and I've bought enough nice stuff to have experienced this first hand. Again, hedonistic treadmill, read up on it if you're interested.
Believe me, we're not exactly living like monks, we have a plenty comfortable life, live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with more than enough "nice stuff", kids get everything they need etc.
Plus, go test drive some of the newer mainstramers - you might be surprised how "nice" they are.
I would only question how comfortable the seats in the CR-V are.
My wife and I have both driven Escapes for a number of years; sometimes on fairly long trips. I thought the comfort level of the seat was okay, even though I would emerge with a rather stiff back after a couple of hours or so and have to stretch for a little while to get comfortable again. Having had our Discovery Sport for almost a year now, I realize that it's a world of difference. I feel rather cosseted by the seat and emerge without being stooped over for a period of time. The difference in more upscale comfort is certainly noticeable.
However, seeing that your partner is a yoga instructor, it may not be a problem for her, but I just thought it may be worth mentioning. Of course if/when she gets pregnant again, it may well be important to her.
The plan is this is our last child.
Seats in CRV are pretty damn good. Personally I've never been as prone to seat comfort issues as some seem to be - even the Corvette, long drives didn't bother me from a back or comfort perspective. She's never complained about the 4Runner seats, she had a Rogue when we met and I don't think she had complaints WRT seat comfort w/ that either.
I'm just not convinced that preferring a Range Rover to a CR-V signals an interest in cars. Preferring a t-bone steak to stew meat doesn't make someone a food expert, just someone with functioning taste buds.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 23, 2017, 12:40:05 AM
+1
Not that this should be a discussion in this thread. Never worth it to change the paint on a DD.
What about a wrap? :mask: :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 08:31:30 AM
The plan is this is our last child.
Seats in CRV are pretty damn good. Personally I've never been as prone to seat comfort issues as some seem to be - even the Corvette, long drives didn't bother me from a back or comfort perspective. She's never complained about the 4Runner seats, she had a Rogue when we met and I don't think she had complaints WRT seat comfort w/ that either.
Just thought I'd mention it. Seems she has a fairly long drive. CR-V seats may well be more comfortable than an Escape, but you may also think about seat upgrade if it's available. Back problems start happening after 40.
Being a yoga instructor probably pushes the back pain horizon out a few decades. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 23, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
I'm just not convinced that preferring a Range Rover to a CR-V signals an interest in cars. Preferring a t-bone steak to stew meat doesn't make someone a food expert, just someone with functioning taste buds.
Did you just compare my beloved CRV to stew meat?
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Did you just compare my beloved CRV to stew meat?
Stew meat is important. IMO a good beef stew is better than a t-bone steak, even if it isn't as sexy.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 23, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
I'm just not convinced that preferring a Range Rover to a CR-V signals an interest in cars. Preferring a t-bone steak to stew meat doesn't make someone a food expert, just someone with functioning taste buds.
So obsessed with metrics all of a sudden. Yes, you can have money and spend it on cars and be interested in cars, as well as any combination of those factors. Shit, some of the biggest car enthusiasts in the world can't even drive yet.
Quote from: Laconian on September 23, 2017, 09:02:21 AM
Being a yoga instructor probably pushes the back pain horizon out a few decades. :lol:
Absolutely.
Apologies if suggested/dismissed before but Hyundai Santa Fe Sport? That's come up on my radar: not too big, decent looking, lots of goodies for the money. I spoke to a guy here who loves his: it's his second; the first one was in a T-bone rollover crash (rolled twice), which he & his wife walked away from. They went straight out & bought another.
Quote from: Raza on September 23, 2017, 09:40:42 AM
So obsessed with metrics all of a sudden. Yes, you can have money and spend it on cars and be interested in cars, as well as any combination of those factors. Shit, some of the biggest car enthusiasts in the world can't even drive yet.
What metrics were mentioned in that post? I think you meant to quote something else.
Yes, spending money on cars can be a result of interest in them, but that's not necessarily 1:1. Just because someone drives an expensive car doesn't mean they are into them- case in point Lebowski right now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2017, 07:46:20 PM
I didn't say the XC60 isn't nicer. Just not twice as nice. The incremental cost is not worth it.
And if we are going to talk about generalizations I'd think your dismissal of women's ability to make decisions would be a better place to start.
The XC60 is nicer to you because it has a better badge. Objectively, especially in the context of Lady Lebowski's started wants and needs, there's nothing better about it.
I think you're getting a little bit excited here. I did not dismiss women's capacity to make decisions. But women are different than men and communicate differently as well. If you don't understand that, my condolences.
I do like the XC60's badge better than the CR-V's. But to say that's all I care about is dismissive and probably more aligned to what you tell yourself when you see a nicer car drive by.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 07:54:51 AM
Of course she (and I) likes nice stuff. Of course she'd like an X5, a Range Rover, an XC90 etc. But she's not that into cars, and there's other things in life that are more important to her/us. She'd be a lot happier if I surprised her with a trip somewhere than a nicer car.
I don't have an aversion to nice stuff, but I recognize that beyond a certain point nicer stuff does not improve your quality of life, and I've bought enough nice stuff to have experienced this first hand. Again, hedonistic treadmill, read up on it if you're interested.
Believe me, we're not exactly living like monks, we have a plenty comfortable life, live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with more than enough "nice stuff", kids get everything they need etc. But we've pretty much reached the point where I don't aspire to further nicer or more "stuff" (still have plenty of goals and aspirations, they just aren't defined by drive such and such car, have a certain watch etc).
Plus, go test drive some of the newer mainstramers - you might be surprised how "nice" they are.
I have no beef with you and my "like nice stuff" comment was directed at sporty's "obsession with luxury" comment before. I know you like nice stuff and even better, experiences (travel).
I only brought the XC60 back in because I do think it is a nicer place to spend time in on a long commute like your wife has. Probably not worth it to her but I'd take her to a test drive. Then she´ll know for sure. After all, she will be spending a huge amount of time in that car.
I'll also happily take your advice about testing mainstreamers. I like testing cars and maybe I'll be surprised.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 08:07:39 AM
Is it really though?
We talked about in the Enthusiast thread, the average person is not that interested in cars. Certainly the average person is not an enthusiast, and on a scale 1-10 the consensus seemed to be the average persons interest in cars is maybe a 2 or a 3.
I don't know about you, but I see an awful lot of very high end cars on the road around here. Lots of land rovers, lots of XC60s and XC90s, lots of bmw, Mercedes etc. A good deal of Cayennes and Macans too, and no small number of 911s. Either the average person is a hell of a lot more interested in cars than we give them credit for here, or there are a lot of people with enough money that the purchase makes sense regardless of interest, mathematically I don't see how the latter is possible as if you're not super into cars these are IMO at least top 1%er (on income) or maybe top 3-4%er (on net worth) types of purchase, and probably more than that.
I think it could be argued the vast majority of people driving high end cars would objectively be better served by a mainstreamer. The exceptions are either very very interested in cars or have so much money that it doesn't matter. I feel like the proportion of both of those groups are far smaller than the proportion of high end car buyers.
The average XC60 buyer isn't buying it because it's objectively "worth it" vs a CRV (which has very good seats btw), they buy it because the average buyer has a single digit savings rate, buys "as much car as I can afford" to go with their "as much house as I can afford," and views car ownership as a perpetual monthly payment.
Whether things we spend money on are worth it or not is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as "objectively better". By the simple act of buying something people vote with their wallets as to what anything is worth to them. Be it the badge, the quality, the speed or whatever - in the end it is entirely subjective.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 23, 2017, 11:43:27 AM
I think you're getting a little bit excited here. I did not dismiss women's capacity to make decisions. But women are different than men and communicate differently as well. If you don't understand that, my condolences.
I do like the XC60's badge better than the CR-V's. But to say that's all I care about is dismissive and probably more aligned to what you tell yourself when you see a nicer car drive by.
OK, you dismissed women's ability to clearly communicate their wants and needs. Again I'm still waiting to hear what Lady Lebowski told you that contradicts what she has told Lebowski. I would think if she wanted a luxury vehicle she wouldn't waste their time looking at CR-Vs and Highlanders.
If there are things beyond the badge that make the XC60 nicer to you I'd love to hear them. If the badges and prices were switched I think you would be pushing for the CR-V. At the end of the day part of the car buying decision process is subjective, even for people who don't care much at all about cars. But you seem to be suggesting Lebowski prioritize your subjective wants ahead of his objective needs. Again I have to ask what is so awful about the CR-V and so great about luxury crossovers, both in general and specific to Lebowski's parameters.... it's been nearly 3 weeks and you haven't made a convincing argument yet.
A loaded Highlander is pretty damned nice, and now with 295 hp and 8AT, it's been elevated. This is another vehicle that keeps ze German and American automakers up at night.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 23, 2017, 11:51:08 AM
OK, you dismissed women's ability to clearly communicate their wants and needs. Again I'm still waiting to hear what Lady Lebowski told you that contradicts what she has told Lebowski. I would think if she wanted a luxury vehicle she wouldn't waste their time looking at CR-Vs and Highlanders.
Wow, you're the one assuming the failure in communication is the woman's fault. It's a challenge in communication between the sexes. All good marriages solve this problem, but it is a challenge. A challenge that sustains an entire industry of books and therapies.
Ms Lebowski hasn't had a luxury vehicle before. We can gather that from the story. They're looking at a car where she'll spend a lot of time. I'd simply float the option to her. If she's not interested, cool. Lebowski came here to talk about their decision after all. So there is a bit of curiosity about what we have to say.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 23, 2017, 11:51:08 AM
If there are things beyond the badge that make the XC60 nicer to you I'd love to hear them. If the badges and prices were switched I think you would be pushing for the CR-V. At the end of the day part of the car buying decision process is subjective, even for people who don't care much at all about cars. But you seem to be suggesting Lebowski prioritize your subjective wants ahead of his objective needs. Again I have to ask what is so awful about the CR-V and so great about luxury crossovers, both in general and specific to Lebowski's parameters.... it's been nearly 3 weeks and you haven't made a convincing argument yet.
What part of me finding the XC60's interior and safety features are better did you miss? And I admit I like the badge better. So?
This is a car forum. I enjoy discussing this with Lebowski. Who cares if I "win" or not? It's the back and forth that's enjoyable.
And what about you? If we're analyzing I'd say that you're thrilled to get company in the "luxury is not worth it" camp. So you are in the "luxury is not worth it" camp and I am in the "luxury can be worth it" camp. What's your problem, man?
We're waiting for the new Highlander to come out in 2020 I think, and the wife will probably get one then.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 23, 2017, 10:49:37 AM
Apologies if suggested/dismissed before but Hyundai Santa Fe Sport? That's come up on my radar: not too big, decent looking, lots of goodies for the money. I spoke to a guy here who loves his: it's his second; the first one was in a T-bone rollover crash (rolled twice), which he & his wife walked away from. They went straight out & bought another.
It's more of an Edge competitor than the CR-V, though not really any roomier on the inside and (at last check) more expensive. It definitely feels like a higher tier of vehicle, though.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 23, 2017, 07:25:05 AM
lol an aftermarket color change is entirely out of the question. Good aftermatket paint jobs are expensive AF.
LOL I was halfway trolling but my standards are much lower than most of y'all apparently- to me a $1000 paint job into a color I like would be preferable over a color I hated.
But then when I shop for cars it's mostly just the value for money and little to do with color.
FWIW, my Miata was originally white but original owner painted it red after an accident, and it had (an originally) green trunk- also painted red after another rear accident. I thought the car looked decent. :huh:
Not perfect by a long shot, but still. (scroll to the bottom here https://www.flickr.com/photos/13591918@N07/page4 )
And LOL the minivan in the neighbor's driveway (From 2012 Miata shot) is the same as I have now.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/7469681586_7cdde5fd40_k.jpg)
A $1,000 paint job won't get you through one winter in a snowy state before it starts deteriorating. I hope you understand this. Clearly you don't.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 23, 2017, 12:02:18 PM
Wow, you're the one assuming the failure in communication is the woman's fault. It's a challenge in communication between the sexes. All good marriages solve this problem, but it is a challenge. A challenge that sustains an entire industry of books and therapies.
Ms Lebowski hasn't had a luxury vehicle before. We can gather that from the story. They're looking at a car where she'll spend a lot of time. I'd simply float the option to her. If she's not interested, cool. Lebowski came here to talk about their decision after all. So there is a bit of curiosity about what we have to say.
What part of me finding the XC60's interior and safety features are better did you miss? And I admit I like the badge better. So?
This is a car forum. I enjoy discussing this with Lebowski. Who cares if I "win" or not? It's the back and forth that's enjoyable.
And what about you? If we're analyzing I'd say that you're thrilled to get company in the "luxury is not worth it" camp. So you are in the "luxury is not worth it" camp and I am in the "luxury can be worth it" camp. What's your problem, man?
The flip side of that coin is that once you have accustomed your wife to a certain level of luxury, is that it is damn near impossible to go back down later.
My wife cares very little about cars. We have been holding a bit back concerning nice cars, and she is delighted to drive around in the Bolt, which isn't exactly a luxury vehicle. However, if she were accustomed to f. ex MB, a brand she "likes", I think it would be pretty hard to have her accept a "lesser" car down the road.
That being said, the brand new XC60 is a hell of a vehicle and pretty much top of the class, imo. If I were shopping in that category, I would do a test drive - but maybe without the wife :lol:
Mainstreamers have come a long way. My wife likes the MKX and did not like the Edge. But I would bet she would like a current top of the like CR-V or something of the sort with the fake stitched leather dashes and all that. Luxury is constantly being democratized. I could definitely do a mainstreamer after the G- but it would have to be perfectly specced- like a GTI with the LSD.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 23, 2017, 10:49:37 AM
Apologies if suggested/dismissed before but Hyundai Santa Fe Sport? That's come up on my radar: not too big, decent looking, lots of goodies for the money. I spoke to a guy here who loves his: it's his second; the first one was in a T-bone rollover crash (rolled twice), which he & his wife walked away from. They went straight out & bought another.
I've looked at them online, haven't looked in person. Hyundai and Kia as well have come a long way, styling isn't too bad either.
$1000 car paintjob?
😧
Quote from: mzziaz on September 24, 2017, 12:19:55 AM
The flip side of that coin is that once you have accustomed your wife to a certain level of luxury, is that it is damn near impossible to go back down later.
My wife cares very little about cars. We have been holding a bit back concerning nice cars, and she is delighted to drive around in the Bolt, which isn't exactly a luxury vehicle. However, if she were accustomed to f. ex MB, a brand she "likes", I think it would be pretty hard to have her accept a "lesser" car down the road.
That being said, the brand new XC60 is a hell of a vehicle and pretty much top of the class, imo. If I were shopping in that category, I would do a test drive - but maybe without the wife :lol:
We decided to upgrade a bit from an Escape to a Discovery Sport; mainly my wife's idea as she felt that I would appreciate a more upscale vehicle. We had considered the Jaguar F-Pace, but there was an availability problem. After almost a year, I really appreciate the vehicle, though the upscale features are mostly to do with it being quiet and, generally, more comfortable. I also found that it is a good balance between performance and efficiency. However, the problem is that my wife is afraid to drive it because, for no good reason, the technology baffles her; she wants a key that she can insert and a shift lever that she is used to and she has no idea how the infotainment system works. She's now insisting that the next car we get will be an Escape. She was very happy driving that. :huh:
Really makes no difference to me; though I'd prefer the Edge for the slightly larger size and better engine choice.
By the time you get another car, the Escape will probably have push button start and no gear lever.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 24, 2017, 10:01:07 AM
We decided to upgrade a bit from an Escape to a Discovery Sport; mainly my wife's idea as she felt that I would appreciate a more upscale vehicle. We had considered the Jaguar F-Pace, but there was an availability problem. After almost a year, I really appreciate the vehicle, though the upscale features are mostly to do with it being quiet and, generally, more comfortable. I also found that it is a good balance between performance and efficiency. However, the problem is that my wife is afraid to drive it because, for no good reason, the technology baffles her; she wants a key that she can insert and a shift lever that she is used to and she has no idea how the infotainment system works. She's now insisting that the next car we get will be an Escape. She was very happy driving that. :huh:
Really makes no difference to me; though I'd prefer the Edge for the slightly larger size and better engine choice.
Can you explain to her that it all just boils down to packets going through the CAN bus? :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 24, 2017, 10:01:07 AM
We decided to upgrade a bit from an Escape to a Discovery Sport; mainly my wife's idea as she felt that I would appreciate a more upscale vehicle. We had considered the Jaguar F-Pace, but there was an availability problem. After almost a year, I really appreciate the vehicle, though the upscale features are mostly to do with it being quiet and, generally, more comfortable. I also found that it is a good balance between performance and efficiency. However, the problem is that my wife is afraid to drive it because, for no good reason, the technology baffles her; she wants a key that she can insert and a shift lever that she is used to and she has no idea how the infotainment system work,as. She's now insisting that the next car we get will be an Escape. She was very happy driving that. :huh:
Really makes no difference to me; though I'd prefer the Edge for the slightly larger size and better engine choice.
Sounds to me you and I both are lucky men :ohyeah:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 23, 2017, 12:02:18 PM
Ms Lebowski hasn't had a luxury vehicle before. We can gather that from the story. They're looking at a car where she'll spend a lot of time. I'd simply float the option to her. If she's not interested, cool. Lebowski came here to talk about their decision after all. So there is a bit of curiosity about what we have to say.
She's very much aware that a higher end vehicle is an option. Drove past a discovery sport on the way to the Toyota dealer the other day - I said do you want to look at those she said not really. I mentioned the XC60 fri night and again today, she said she likes them but doesn't see a need to go into that price range.
The way I initially framed this to her is as follows - we'll get whatever you decide on up to a hard limit of the resale value (just use kbb for simplicity) of the m3. Any net savings below that amount will go towards her student loans - so she's motivated to save money w/ something more tangible than a minute increase in my brokerage account. I went in hoping she'd consider the CRV/CX-5, if she ends up choosing a $20k used RX that would be a home run, as it would put her within spitting distance of being debt free.
I feel like the financial utility of a 22K brand new, in-warranty Honda CR-V is better than a six-year old Lexus RX with 55K.
CRV equipped as we would (touring model fwd) is ~$31k. However, I still think I agree with you, CRV is my first choice, but I'm fine with either and I'm certainly not gonna complain about her saving an extra ~$10k vs what I initially considered best case scenario.
On some level this was a test, by bringing a used car (of known history / great condition) into the fold she totally gamed it ... and I'm 100% fine with that.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 10:55:20 AM
CRV equipped as we would (touring model fwd) is ~$31k. However, I still think I agree with you, CRV is my first choice, but I'm fine with either.
I don't know. Maybe if the Lexus was 3 years newer, was a Hybrid, or had lower miles. I can't see it being that good of an idea for ya'll. Not that it would break, but it's an old car and it's got dated technology etc.
My dad regularly puts 150k+ on Toyota/Lexus products with no major problems (he and my stepmom are both high mileage drivers). I have no qualms whatsoever about the reliability of a well maintained Lexus with 55k miles. True, I wouldn't keep it for 6-7 years like I would a new car but should be good for awhile, and from a depreciation/resale standpoint the "cost" of owning it for another 50-75k miles or so is gonna beat a new car.
A 2011 car is old now? :confused:
Everything is relative. Compared to the latest and greatest the RX is old and outdated. But compared to the 4Runner it's nicer. It was the same thing with the MKX.... compared to something like a current X3, garbage. But compared to the Rabbit? Basically a Bentley Bentyaga. Hybrid tech would do nothing on the highway either. There are a lot of good reasons the CR-V is a top seller ;)
Yeah, highway mileage on most of the CUV hybrids really isn't needle moving.
That RX idea is very compelling
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 10:42:27 AM
She's very much aware that a higher end vehicle is an option. Drove past a discovery sport on the way to the Toyota dealer the other day - I said do you want to look at those she said not really. I mentioned the XC60 fri night and again today, she said she likes them but doesn't see a need to go into that price range.
The way I initially framed this to her is as follows - we'll get whatever you decide on up to a hard limit of the resale value (just use kbb for simplicity) of the m3. Any net savings below that amount will go towards her student loans - so she's motivated to save money w/ something more tangible than a minute increase in my brokerage account. I went in hoping she'd consider the CRV/CX-5, if she ends up choosing a $20k used RX that would be a home run, as it would put her within spitting distance of being debt free.
That was very nice of you to be generous like that with her. Congrats. I see. I rest my case.
She's smart then to pick the CRV. Maybe later in life if she's interested a luxury option might make sense.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 24, 2017, 11:40:58 AM
That was very nice of you to be generous like that with her. Congrats. I see. I rest my case.
She's smart then to pick the CRV. Maybe later in life if she's interested a luxury option might make sense.
Generous but also selfish :devil:
This will be a win-win all around. I'm indifferent between driving the 4runner and M3 so this is no great sacrifice to me. A good majority of her student loans go away (something I want as much as she does) and she gets to participate in the decision by forgoing an offered upgrade/luxury.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 23, 2017, 09:08:13 PM
A $1,000 paint job won't get you through one winter in a snowy state before it starts deteriorating. I hope you understand this. Clearly you don't.
That Miata had several winters with snow/salt. If you look at the pics, there is white showing through on the A-pillar in one of them, but overall it was still very much presentable.
Never mind that you still have a good paint job UNDER the aftermarket paint.... :huh:
Oh and that shiny red paint on that Miata was likely way less than $1000, it was a maaco job. (It was on the car when I bought it).
Yeah, that orange peel looks really awesome.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 24, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Where?
Pretty obvious with the lack of clarity in the reflections, like on the driver's door.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/7469681586_7cdde5fd40_k.jpg)
For reference:
(http://www.focusrs.org/forum/attachments/2366d1447437339-orange-peel-free-1410911_643727992315097_1214458978_o.jpg)
Buying a 2011 RX for the purpose of getting her out of a 2010 4Runner seems like a bit of a head scratcher.
They're keeping the 4Runner, and the RX has like half the miles. With Toyotas age doesn't really matter
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 24, 2017, 05:34:36 PM
They're keeping the 4Runner, and the RX has like half the miles. With Toyotas age doesn't really matter
I get that, but I thought the whole point was to put her in a new car since she's driving a bajillion miles a year.
If Toyota ages don't matter, why not let her drive the 4Runner into the ground?
Because what he's proposing nets him $20k-$30k cash, and will also be cheaper on a per mile basis moving forward?
Quote from: MrH on September 24, 2017, 05:48:29 PM
Because what he's proposing nets him $20k-$30k cash, and will also be cheaper on a per mile basis moving forward?
Except in 2 years she'll be driving another 100,000 mile car, that's only marginally better on mileage. :nutty:
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 05:28:03 PM
Buying a 2011 RX for the purpose of getting her out of a 2010 4Runner seems like a bit of a head scratcher.
It certainly wasn't my expectation to begin with, and still isn't my first choice (but it's not my choice to make).
Primary "purpose" was to sell the high performance "luxury" car that I'm not getting any value out of and replace with a hopefully cheaper + practical small-medium CUV of her choosing. To that end, sure it suits the purpose. It's not quite as practical as a new CRV but it's about in the sweet spot size wise and what it gives up in stuff like mpg it more than makes up for in lower cost. 55k miles is ~40k less than the 4Runner and I have no qualms w/ it in terms of reliability. Styling wise IMO it's just as dorky/boring as a CRV but apparently she feels differently. RX are a dime a dozen here so would blend right in which is a plus IMO.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 05:53:11 PM
Except in 2 years she'll be driving another 100,000 mile car, that's only marginally better on mileage. :nutty:
The age thing is always one of my hangups with buying used - in ~3 years it'll be a ~9 y/o car. Given its age this would probably be something we'd keep 3-4 years rather than 6-7+ if it was something new. At the same time, the depreciation for a used car is such that keeping it for 6+ years isn't necessary.
True on the mileage as well but $11k diff in price buys a lot of gas.
I generally don't like buying used because of the extra time to find something plus my own irrationality of "I don't know where its been (or how it's been treated etc)". Economically speaking, buying used always wins, keeping it for a shorter time period and gas mileage aren't nearly enough to offset the economic advantage of depreciation that comes with a well maintained used car of this mileage.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:04:49 PM
The age thing is always one of my hangups with buying used - in ~3 years it'll be a ~9 y/o car. Given its age this would probably be something we'd keep 3-4 years rather than 6-7+ if it was something new. At the same time, used cars of this age depreciate a lot less.
True on the mileage as well but $11k diff in price buys a lot of gas.
I generally don't like buying used because of the extra time to find something plus my own irrationality of "I don't know where its been (or how it's been treated etc)". Economically speaking, buying used always wins, keeping it for a shorter time period and gas mileage aren't nearly enough to offset the economic advantage of depreciation that comes with a well maintained used car of this mileage.
Model-to-model sure, but buying a used luxury car isn't always going to "win" economically versus a new mainstreamer.
Just get the CR-V. Clearly that's what she wants and it's waaaaay more practical than a $20K+ used luxury car with over 50,000 miles on it.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 06:17:21 PM
Model-to-model sure, but buying a used luxury car isn't always going to "win" economically versus a new mainstreamer.
Just get the CR-V. Clearly that's what she wants and it's waaaaay more practical than a $20K+ used luxury car with over 50,000 miles on it.
We're not talking about a used Land Rover or Jag here. Used entry level Lexus? It's about as economical a choice as I could have hoped for.
I prefer the CRV, which has been my top choice since we test drove it and the CX-5 and remains so. As of now she's leaning used RX.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:21:33 PM
We're not talking about a used Land Rover or Jag here. Used entry level Lexus? It's about as economical a choice as I could have hoped for.
I prefer the CRV, which has been my top choice since we test drove it and the CX-5 and remains so. As of now she's leaning used RX.
A new RX is 5K over a Disco Sport. I get running costs would be cheaper, but it's not a cheap car by any means.
The most economical choice you could have hoped for was a CPO Hyundai or GM, or maybe even a used CR-V/RAV4.
Sinking $20K+ into a 50,000 mile car for the Lexus badge is exactly the materialistic treadmill you're saying you want to avoid.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 06:30:43 PM
A new RX is 5K over a Disco Sport. I get running costs would be cheaper, but it's not a cheap car by any means.
What's that have to do with anything?
A used disco sport is not something I would comfortably buy with 50k miles with the intention of driving another 50-100k miles. A Toyota product is.
Quote
The most economical choice you could have hoped for was a CPO Hyundai or GM, or maybe even a used CR-V/RAV4.
I said most economic choice I could have hoped for not the most economical choice within the realm of all possibilities. We could buy a used Kia Rio too that's not really being discussed is it?
Quote
Sinking $20K+ into a 50,000 mile car for the Lexus badge is exactly the materialistic treadmill you're saying you want to avoid.
Lol ok.
She was offered anything she wants up to a limit of ~$50k. If she ends up choosing a $20k used Lexus RX in gramma tan I'm not gonna be like "damn what a badge whore!"
But a Lexus is a Toyota, not some unreliable German shitbox, no?
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:36:21 PM
What's that have to do with anything?
A used disco sport is not something I would comfortably buy with 50k miles with the intention of driving another 50-100k miles. A Toyota product is.
I said most economic choice I could have hoped for not the most economical choice within the realm of all possibilities. We could buy a used Kia Rio too that's not really being discussed is it?
Lol ok.
Dude, you'd be 50,000 miles in, out of warranty, for $2000 less than a BRAND NEW base CR-V. Than is not an "economic win." Not even if you factor-in your desire for a higher trim level.
Ask Soup about high mileage Toyotas. You may get a flaming good answer. :lol:
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 06:41:52 PM
Dude, you'd be 50,000 miles in, out of warranty, for $2000 less than a BRAND NEW base CR-V. Than is not an "economic win." Not even if you factor-in your desire for a higher trim level.
Even worse, it's $4000 MORE than a base Honda Fit! You're right, I'd be getting royally fucked on this deal!
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 05:28:03 PM
Buying a 2011 RX for the purpose of getting her out of a 2010 4Runner seems like a bit of a head scratcher.
This thread just keeps on delivering.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:36:21 PM
She was offered anything she wants up to a limit of ~$50k. If she ends up choosing a $20k used Lexus RX in gramma tan I'm not gonna be like "damn what a badge whore!"
So in other words it has nothing to do with "practicality" like you've been stating for 20 pages?
I blame mom, this was all her idea.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 06:41:52 PM
Dude, you'd be 50,000 miles in, out of warranty, for $2000 less than a BRAND NEW base CR-V. Than is not an "economic win." Not even if you factor-in your desire for a higher trim level.
The Touring she wants is 31K and will be worth like 10K after 6-7 years. I don't think depreciation and transaction fees on a used RX every 3-4 years will add up to 20K... quick look on CarGurus shows RXs losing about 5-7K in value from year 7 to year 10. And outside of technology a 7 year old RX is a nicer car than a brand new CR-V IMO.
And you have to keep things in the context of selling the M3. Buying new is always the worst way to go financially.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 06:49:50 PM
So in other words it has nothing to do with "practicality" like you've been stating for 20 pages?
RX350 is a pretty damn practical car for a mother of two :huh:
Like I've been saying for 20 pages there's another person who's not a member of carspin making the final choice.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:52:03 PM
RX350 is a pretty damn practical car for a mother of two :huh:
Like I've been saying for 20 pages there's another person who's not a member of carspin making the final choice.
Is it r0tor? Did he quit the spin and gets the final say?
:lol:
Quote from: MrH on September 24, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Is it r0tor? Did he quit the spin and gets the final say?
:clap: :clap:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:52:03 PM
RX350 is a pretty damn practical car for a mother of two :huh:
Like I've been saying for 20 pages there's another person who's not a member of carspin making the final choice.
lol some of us get it, don't let the absurd fightiness wear on you.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 06:52:03 PM
RX350 is a pretty damn practical car for a mother of two :huh:
Like I've been saying for 20 pages there's another person who's not a member of carspin making the final choice.
I was referring to the $50,000.00 budget you just cited.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 07:57:34 PM
I was referring to the $50,000.00 budget you just cited.
:huh:
And you're the guy who earlier argued for keeping a far less practical, far more expensive luxury car I said I don't get enjoyment out of "because appreciation", right?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 24, 2017, 06:50:31 PM
The Touring she wants is 31K and will be worth like 10K after 6-7 years. I don't think depreciation and transaction fees on a used RX every 3-4 years will add up to 20K... quick look on CarGurus shows RXs losing about 5-7K in value from year 7 to year 10. And outside of technology a 7 year old RX is a nicer car than a brand new CR-V IMO.
And you have to keep things in the context of selling the M3. Buying new is always the worst way to go financially.
He already said he doesn't care about depreciation and views it as a sunk cost. I tend to believe him, given that, for the last 20 pages, he was talking about spending ~$60,000.00 for a CR-V and 10,000 mile "rental" of an M3. :huh:
Toyotas are fairly reliable but they aren't perpetual motion machines. One big repair bill and that 9K is essentially a wash.
Disagree on interior feels. Lexus makes solid vehicles but their materials, IMO, don't look or feel particularly upscale. I think Honda tends to make nicer interiors.
Quote from: MrH on September 24, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Is it r0tor? Did he quit the spin and gets the final say?
Shhh, don't spoil the surprise.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 08:02:39 PM
He already said he doesn't care about depreciation and views it as a sunk cost. I tend to believe him, given that, for the last 20 pages, he was talking about spending ~$60,000.00 for a CR-V and 10,000 mile "rental" of an M3. :huh:
Yeah, that's not how these decisions work. But keep talking about "eating" depreciation, as if it's not money already gone.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 08:02:02 PM
:huh:
And you're the guy who earlier argued for keeping a far less practical, far more expensive luxury car I said I don't get enjoyment out of "because appreciation", right?
I wasn't "arguing" for anything; I was playing Devil's advocate and pointing out that buying a brand new car after you just bought an M3 and ate 20-30K in depreciation wasn't the "practical" no-brainer you were characterizing it as. If you'd like to compound the blood loss even further and sink another 20K in a used luxury car, go ahead, it's not my money. :huh:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 24, 2017, 08:02:41 PM
Shhh, don't spoil the surprise.
SPOILER ALERT: r0tor is actually Lady Lebowski this whole time. They couldn't agree on what to do, so they decided to argue publicly on here to let the people decide who's right.
Quote from: Tave on September 24, 2017, 08:09:29 PM
I wasn't "arguing" for anything; I was playing Devil's advocate and pointing out that buying a brand new car after you just bought an M3 and ate 20-30K in depreciation wasn't the "practical" no-brainer you were characterizing it as. If you'd like to compound the blood loss even further and sink another 20K in a used luxury car, go ahead, it's not my money. :huh:
The argument you are very much making is inaccurate and irrational. The ~$20k or so in depreciation has already been chewed, swallowed, and digested. It's gone, BMW isn't going to mail me a check for continuing to drive a car I no longer want.
If you're worried about depreication (going forward, which is what counts), a $20k 6 y/o used Lexus will face significantly less of it per year and per mile than either a 3 y/o ~$50k BMW or any of the new cars seriously discussed ITT.
On practicality ... um, not sure what you're trying to get at here, of course an RX sized CUV is more practical for a family with 2 kids and 2 dogs than an M sedan :huh:
No blood lost here at all and no regrets, just realigning to fit a significant change of household wants and needs.
I've never been in a Honda that felt as nice as even a 5 year old Lexus IS. Also the CR-V and RX350 will be worth the same amount of money in 5 years. Yes the technology is better in the CR-V but the RX IMO is totally worthy of being considered for $10k less, and 50k miles is really only two years of service with the amount of miles she drives so it's not like buying a 5 year old car equates to the car lasting 5 years less time. Also does she really need the technology that comes in a new car? Nav on the Lexus will be outdated, but she's probably on her iPhone or whatever anyways, if the Lexus has cooled seats they are actually cooled and not "ventilated", the quality of the seats is just better, and if it has the Mark Levinson sound system it fucking bangs. If you take infotainment out of the equation the RX is a nicer car.
Eh, IMO CRV interior is as nice maybe even a bit nicer. I'd think things like sound system CRV ahead too (don't think my moms has upgraded sound).
Otherwise totally agree with you. 50k miles for a Toyota /Lexus or Honda is not "old" and is not something I have any qualms owning off warranty. And yeah, after a few years they'd both be worth about the same. The likelihood the RX would offset the ~$11-$12k diff in initial cost in gas and repairs is extremely remote, IMO.
Have you given any thought to a Porsche Boxster towing two Radio Flyer red wagons with child seats installed in them?
Quote from: Raza on September 25, 2017, 08:19:26 AM
Have you given any thought to a Porsche Boxster towing two Radio Flyer red wagons with child seats installed in them?
Rotor suggested that very thing on page 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA
(ironically, the act of posting that video clip is also OVER)
Lols
Quote from: Lebowski on September 25, 2017, 08:41:23 AM
Rotor suggested that very thing on page 4.
Did he really? :lol:
So, you are paying your wife to take the cheap car?
Quote from: mzziaz on September 25, 2017, 11:19:44 PM
So, you are paying your wife to take the cheap car?
Ha, that's one way of putting it.
No, we're just putting any savings towards something more important to both of us. I was addressing the MCM angle of "maybe she wants a really nice car and just isn't telling you" ... she knows she can drive whatever she wants within reason, she really doesn't care and has higher priorities.
Fwiw we aren't married. Live together and are in a committed relationship, but keep things like finances separate.
Quote from: mzziaz on September 25, 2017, 11:19:44 PM
So, you are paying your wife to take the cheap car?
Paying yourself(ves) always wins.
Bruh. Wife that shit up, pay off her student loans, and find a yoga studio she doesn't have to commute 25,000 miles/year to teach at. Good lord.
You must really, really, really hate that M3.
Quote from: Tave on September 26, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
Brah. Wife that shit up, pay off her student loans, and find a yoga studio she doesn't have to commute 25,000 miles/year to teach at. Good lord.
You must really, really, really hate that M3.
I don't hate the m3 but doesn't do anything for me. This has been covered ... I'd be selling it in any case.
Thanks but no thanks to the non car related life advice.
Quote from: Tave on September 26, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
Bruh. Wife that shit up, pay off her student loans, and find a yoga studio she doesn't have to commute 25,000 miles/year to teach at. Good lord.
You must really, really, really hate that M3.
What does that even mean? :confused:
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 26, 2017, 08:09:03 PM
What does that even mean? :confused:
Put a ring on it, brah.
This is depressing. If I live much longer I won't be able to understand what anyone's saying.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 26, 2017, 08:37:46 PM
This is depressing. If I live much longer I won't be able to understand what anyone's saying.
You'll live plenty long and be just as clueless as the rest of us ;).
(I had no idea what it meant either and had never heard it. But now knowing they're not married I guess i can see it - maybe that was mentioned earlier ITT or elsewhere.)
Surely you've been paying more attention that that, Gougs.
Ah, so the real story is wife is not a wife, has financial issues, and Lebowski only want to do as little as possible to help her out...
...Now it all makes sense... :popcorn:
Yeah, a brand new CR-V AND $20k cash is really bad.
Lebowski = stingiest sugardaddy ever.
Quote from: r0tor on September 27, 2017, 05:26:37 AM
Ah, so the real story is wife is not a wife, has financial issues, and Lebowski only want to do as little as possible to help her out...
...Now it all makes sense... :popcorn:
"Gotcha! Your girlfriend isn't even your wife! Caught again in a web of your own truths, Lebowski!"
Come on, nobody actually believes the #1 and #2 Lebowski enthusiasts thought they could possibly have missed a wedding announcement :huh:
You might have wanted to start the thread like
"Hey my girlfriend needs a new daily commuter. She's deep in debt and I want to help her out without going crazy because I'm not comfortable with her having my money yet. I'm also dumping the M3 because I don't like it"
Rather then this gem of a massively different story
QuoteLong story short I increased my spending quite a bit from 2010-2015ish and came to the conclusion of you know what, my level of spending has gone up but my overall comfort has not done so by a commensurate amount. A lot of moving pieces during that period though including going from single no kids no plans to ever have kids to a family w/ 2 kids. Went from having a long time goal of retiring early, sort of abandoned that goal for a couple of years, and came back to it.
:violin:
Not sure what you're getting at or what you think is contradictory, none of it is other than your erroneous assumptions.
That you think choosing to prioritize paying off student loans over driving a nicer car on her part = "financial issues", well, I think its already been pointed out your fixation between nice things wrt image/status is unhealthy.
Come on, Lebowski. Get your shit together! Bald, poor, and living in Florida? You're a cliche!
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 08:12:21 AM
Come on, Lebowski. Get your shit together! Bald, poor, and living in Florida? You're a cliche!
Bald, poor, and living in sin!
(and with another poor person :facepalm:)
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 08:17:05 AM
Bald, poor, and living in sin!
Oh shit, you guys aren't married? You have a babymama? You are a babydaddy!? Damn son. I see you in a whole new light.
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
Oh shit, you guys aren't married? You have a babymama? You are a babydaddy!? Damn son. I see you in a whole new light.
Nah, not mine man she told me she went to the sperm bank. Oh wait no, that was Rotor's wife.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 07:47:22 AM
Not sure what you're getting at or what you think is contradictory, none of it is other than your erroneous assumptions.
That you think choosing to prioritize paying off student loans over driving a nicer car on her part = "financial issues", well, I think its already been pointed out your fixation between nice things wrt image/status is unhealthy.
As I said previously, if you told the whole story you would have gotten better responses.
It's alot more understandable now why you were do against anything with a lux price and fixated on the cheapest alternative as your just trying to bail your girlfriend out.
Quote from: r0tor on September 27, 2017, 08:25:34 AM
It's alot more understandable now why you were do against anything with a lux price and fixated on the cheapest alternative as your just trying to bail your girlfriend out.
I have owned a "lux car" for 3 years and concluded it doesn't do anything for me. Not sure how much clearer I can make that, was all laid out in the second post in the thread.
You're trying so hard to read between the lines you've repeatedly made an ass of yourself, and now you're back for more.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 08:17:05 AM
Bald, poor, and living in sin!
(and with another poor person :facepalm:)
Sheeee-it, buddy, welcome to the trailer park! Come over to my double-wide for Bud Light! We'll talk about NASCAR! Still think you oughta get that pickup.
:muffin: ;)
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
Nah, not mine man she told me she went to the sperm bank. Oh wait no, that was Rotor's wife.
Oh shit, you put a baby in r0tor's wife? Not going to lie dude, that's a boss move.
Quote from: shp4man on September 27, 2017, 08:43:40 AM
Sheeee-it, buddy, welcome to the trailer park! Come over to my double-wide for Bud Light! We'll talk about NASCAR! Still think you oughta get that pickup.
:muffin: ;)
No wonder he hasn't posted photos of the new house yet
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 08:43:47 AM
Oh shit, you put a baby in r0tor's wife? Not going to lie dude, that's a boss move.
I've never donated. You?
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 08:12:21 AM
Come on, Lebowski. Get your shit together! Bald, poor, and living in Florida? You're a cliche!
:lol:
This is the thread that keeps on giving.
I'd like to point out how many times r0tor says good bye in Lebowski threads, waits all of a couple of days at most (usually a couple of hours), and he's back to writing another chapter in his Lebowski novel.
Rotor is the gift that keeps on giving.
If I had a dollar for every time Rotor left only to return, I could afford a decent car AND a toupee!
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
Oh shit, you guys aren't married? You have a babymama? You are a babydaddy!? Damn son. I see you in a whole new light.
I was about to say, that's not a girlfriend Lebowski, that's an honest-to-goodness babymama. And if I'm not mistaken, this right here is some straight old fashioned babymama drama.
Quote from: Tave on September 27, 2017, 10:40:27 AM
I was about to say, that's not a girlfriend Lebowski, that's an honest-to-goodness babymama. And if I'm not mistaken, this right here is some straight old fashioned babymama drama.
Buying a practical car is drama? Living below ones means and recognizing a "lux car" doesn't do anything for you is drama? Sorry, only drama to be found here is fiction.
Make all the assumptions you'd like, it's entirely possible and not at all uncommon to be in a healthy, committed relationship and not be married. Brah.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 04:58:19 AM
Surely you've been paying more attention that that, Gougs.
I have not. ITT people kept saying "wife" and I just went with it (and curiously, you didn't seem to be correcting them).
Quote from: GoCougs on September 27, 2017, 10:57:56 AM
I have not. ITT people kept saying "wife" and I just went with it (and curiously, you didn't seem to be correcting them).
If there's a wedding you'll be the first spinner to get an invite :lol:
Cohabit w/ someone for awhile and sooner or later people start referring to you as "mr and mrs __" , refer to "your husband" or "your wife", people refer to her son as "your son" (to me) or to me as "your dad" (to him), after awhile you just kinda get used to it and stop correcting people, it's an understandable and IMO harmless mistake. We don't refer to each other as husband/wife except in a few situations usually w/ strangers when it avoids confusion (front desk at a hotel, "my husband/wife made the reservation under his/her name ___") but oftentimes we don't bother to correct others if they refer to us that way, and we do always refer to ourselves collectively as "my family".
Consider also, "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" sounds like someone you've known for 3 weeks, "partner" sounds like same sex, "significant other" sounds like you're both 60+ y/o.
I'm no expert on urban lingo and I/we don't take offense to any of these labels, but my understanding is "baby mama" implies lack of a committed relationship, which is not the case here.
Not that it's here or there but fwiw my parents are divorced, her parents are divorced, I'm 36 and have plenty of peers who are divorced etc. a piece of paper doesn't define a relationship. We likely will get married at some point and there are some practical benefits (health insurance, estate planning etc) but neither of us is insecure in our current position and honestly I haven't received the pressure many guys seem to get.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 09:13:37 AM
I've never donated. You?
Only person to person. I try not to go corporate with it--you know the farm to table movement? It's kind of like that.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
If there's a wedding you'll be the first spinner to get an invite :lol:
Cohabitat w/ someone for awhile and sooner or later people start referring to you as "mr and mrs __" , refer to "your husband" or "your wife", refer to her son as "your son" (to me) or "your dad" (to him), after awhile you just kinda get used to it and stop correcting people, it's an understandable and IMO harmless mistake.
Not that it's here or there but fwiw my parents are divorced, her parents are divorced, I'm 36 and have plenty of peers who are divorced etc. a piece of paper doesn't define a relationship. We likely will get married at some point and there are some practical benefits (health insurance, estate planning etc) but neither of us is insecure in our current position and honestly I haven't received the pressure many guys seem to get.
When my friend put a baby in his girl, people were pushing him to propose. He waited a long time, way after the first kid came to do it. Years later, they are happily married still, with two kids.
Personally, marriage doesn't matter. Legally it does, but that's a different story. I support your decision not to get married. I personally don't understand marriage as an institution very much, and probably wouldn't get married myself unless to simplify things or the woman I'm with places value on the status of being married.
The "start a family/build a life before marriage" thing is something I'm seeing more and more. To each their own
Seems risky IMO
Quote from: Raza on September 27, 2017, 11:49:18 AM
When my friend put a baby in his girl, people were pushing him to propose. He waited a long time, way after the first kid came to do it. Years later, they are happily married still, with two kids.
Personally, marriage doesn't matter. Legally it does, but that's a different story. I support your decision not to get married. I personally don't understand marriage as an institution very much, and probably wouldn't get married myself unless to simplify things or the woman I'm with places value on the status of being married.
Thank you. I support your choice not to get married as well :lol:
I'm not religious, so maybe that colors my perception of marriage a bit as well as all the failed marriages out there (whether divorce or people who choose to remain in bad marriages). I also know so many guys (and a few girls) who were heavily pressured to get married, some who were given ultimatums ("marry me or I'm leaving your ass" ... yeah that sounds like someone you wanna lock down for eternity), even some who were coerced into it (Rotor?). I don't get it, that kind of behavior seems unhealthy to me and if you're that insecure in your relationship maybe it isn't meant to be. I'm not anti-marriage, but the implication you can't be in a healthy long term relationship / stable family situation without it ... really? It's 2017, gays have made huge strides in terms of acceptance maybe unmarried straight couples will be next.
It really is just another "what car should we buy" thread guys.
Quote from: Tave on September 26, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
Bruh. Wife that shit up, pay off her student loans, and find a yoga studio she doesn't have to commute 25,000 miles/year to teach at. Good lord.
You must really, really, really hate that M3.
Well, now that it's been explained what the hell you were talking about, I fully agree...and not just because of any symbolic gesture or in the eyes of some God or another or even because it just might be the right thing to do...but I recall the picture he posted of them in the car he just picked up and was on the way back home and remember thinking 'boy, she's a way out of his league, wonder what she see's in him'.
So now, my unsolicited advice..."Wife that shit up".
Now, I know that you're a bit of a hard case and don't take kindly to unsolicited advice but, from what I could tell from that picture, she's a damned classy lady and, even if she outwardly doesn't seem to desire any luxury in a vehicle, she deserves to have a classy ride with all the safety features available. With that, I would recommend dropping by the Volvo, land Rover, Jaguar dealership and see what her reaction of one of these is. Just tell her it's all about safety. She'll appreciate that.
I don't have a problem w/ unsolicited advice and in fact this thread, like most "what car should I/we buy" threads, was intended to solicit advice. Some here (not you) have let their imaginations run away with them and as a result their advice isn't really relevant, then get angry and almost obsessive. Tave for example apparently still holding a grudge that his entirely absurd opinion that a 3 y/o luxury car will "appreciate" was rejected out of hand for what it was.
I'm not really convinced the luxo options offer much if any real "safety" advantage vs the mainstreamers.
I've got it.
Instead of a ring, give her a used M3 as a sign of your love.
Damn Lebowski, teach me your ways. Bald and poor yet you still somehow managed to put a baby in a hot woman while not having to marry her AND giving her a Honda?
Too much alpha all in one place.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 27, 2017, 12:08:24 PM
The "start a family/build a life before marriage" thing is something I'm seeing more and more. To each their own
If my wife and I hadn't needed the marriage earlier on for immigration purposes, that's the route we'd have also taken. The romantic aspect is building a life together, and a marriage is about settling legal matters. If the latter can wait, then you avoid needless paperwork if it becomes clear quickly that it was a bad idea.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
Nah, not mine man she told me she went to the sperm bank. Oh wait no, that was Rotor's wife.
Personal attack on my wife... Congrats on being a douchebag
Quote from: r0tor on September 27, 2017, 02:30:53 PM
Personal attack on my wife... Congrats on being a douchebag
Well, really more directed at you than your wife.
Rotor you've been personally attacking me and making bizarre insinuations for a good portion of 20+ pages incl recently making outlandish claims about myself and my sig other :huh:
Quote from: r0tor on September 27, 2017, 05:26:37 AM
Ah, so the real story is wife is not a wife, has financial issues, and Lebowski only want to do as little as possible to help her out...
...Now it all makes sense... :popcorn:
Sounds to me maybe your wife is a wife because she coerced you into it? And you're casting stones at my family situation from that glass house of your own?
Fuck off, Rotor.
If two mature adults want to have a family and not rush the marriage malarkey, I'm cool with that. I don't see myself getting married (or having kids for that matter). It's the idiots that get married at 19, pop out three kids, and are divorced and angry by 24 that cause problems...the cycle seems to repeat too often.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 01:27:51 PM
I don't have a problem w/ unsolicited advice and in fact this thread, like most "what car should I/we buy" threads, was intended to solicit advice. Some here (not you) have let their imaginations run away with them and as a result their advice isn't really relevant, then get angry and almost obsessive. Tave for example apparently still holding a grudge that his entirely absurd opinion that a 3 y/o luxury car will "appreciate" was rejected out of hand for what it was.
I'm not really convinced the luxo options offer much if any real "safety" advantage vs the mainstreamers.
Hardly a grudge, nor was I positive it would appreciate...
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:25:11 PM
Your BMW has already taken it's biggest hit and very well might possibly level out at 30-40K even if it never appreciates in value while you own it. The CR-V will begin a slow march to Zero as soon as you drive it off the lot.
It's the difference between an unrealized, 35K loss in the indefinite future (with potential upside) vs a realized 25K hit now plus another guaranteed unrealized 15-30K loss going forward.
Obviously maintenance costs are a huge variable, and maybe the Beemer's value drops like a stone and it's a point moot, but if it isn't murdering you on servicing and/or ¿payments? you can make an economic case for it.
On the other hand, you've kept the mileage nice and low and can get out now if the variability or thought of having that much money tied up in a vehicle doesn't sit well w you.
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:38:24 PM
FWIW, he said in his first post that he might do nothing. I was just playing devil's advocate and making the financial case for the M3, such as it is.
In reality his fate was prolly sealed as soon as he floated the idea of buying her a new ride. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tave on September 05, 2017, 04:44:59 PM
For a normal car sure but the M3 isn't normal. The E46 is still trading close to 20K. An E30 in good condition could net you close to 100 grand or more.
Same reason why you can't buy an Elise for less than 30K regardless of year/mileage. Or look at what the 911 is doing right now.
Look I'm not saying it will for sure, and already pointed out why it may not, but it's a much different conversation with the M3 than it is a Civic.
Quote from: Tave on September 27, 2017, 03:48:59 PM
Hardly a grudge, nor was I positive it would appreciate...
Usually when I'm wrong I'm not positive, either. That a 3 y/o luxury car has beyond minuscule likelihood of appreciating is such an absurd position that any level of confidence is laughable.
Maybe I misread vitriol into some of your more recent posts where there was none. This is a fairly straightforward "what car should we buy" thread, the unrelated personal advice you've offered is based on erroneous assumptions.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Usually when I'm wrong I'm not positive, either. That a 3 y/o luxury car has beyond minuscule likelihood of appreciating is such an absurd position that any level of confidence is laughable.
I specifically said it would depreciate, to a point, but that it may very well level off and possibly grow given the historical depreciation curve of the model.
I think I hit a nerve here and apologize if I offended you. The "babymama drama" was meant in jest.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Maybe I misread vitriol into some of your more recent posts where there was none. This is a fairly straightforward "what car should we buy" thread, the unrelated personal advice you've offered is based on erroneous assumptions.
Understood, my b, just trying to nudge you back towards the M3 dude. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tave on September 27, 2017, 04:23:15 PM
I specifically said it would depreciate, to a point, but that it may very well level off and possibly grow given the historical depreciation curve of the model.
I think I hit a nerve here and apologize if I offended you. The "babymama drama" was meant in jest.
Added an edit to my post above. Like I said earlier, no label offends me esp if meant in good humor and we joke around about our situation pretty openly, a minority of comments ITT were clearly not made in jest and I sorta lumped you in and for that I apologize.
OlivebranchSPIN.
Just wondering if the 50,000 on the odometer Lexus RX is on its original brakes and tires or second set? If on the first, they're both going to have to be replaced soon.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 02:39:08 PM
Well, really more directed at you than your wife.
Rotor you've been personally attacking me and making bizarre insinuations for a good portion of 20+ pages incl recently making outlandish claims about myself and my sig other :huh:
Sounds to me maybe your wife is a wife because she coerced you into it? And you're casting stones at my family situation from that glass house of your own?
Fuck off, Rotor.
Mature of you. Start a thread based off a lie, I call you on it, it finally comes out that I was actually right, and you start making personal insults and then try insults on my wife.
You are pathetic.
Quote from: r0tor on September 27, 2017, 04:51:18 PM
Mature of you. Start a thread based off a lie, I call you on it, it finally comes out that I was actually right, and you start making personal insults and then try insults on my wife.
You are pathetic.
Like I said, you sure caught me in a web of truths. I don't lie and there's not a lie (on my part) ITT.
You've got some serious self esteem / self image issues man, related to relationships, money, status/status purchases etc. My best guess is you feel as if you were coerced into a marriage you don't want to be in, and very likely with an expensive wife. Very possibly some fertility issues and/or disagreement on wanting another child as well given her desire to have kids to the point of the sperm bank incident, and your recent thread re throwing in the towel due to "too old" despite both of you still being quite young, in your prime even. Best of luck man :cheers:
Quote from: Lebowski on September 27, 2017, 05:31:22 PM
Like I said, you sure caught me in a web of truths. I don't lie and there's not a lie (on my part) ITT.
You've got some serious self esteem / self image issues man, related to relationships, money, status/status purchases etc. My best guess is you feel as if you were coerced into a marriage you don't want to be in, and very likely with an expensive wife. Best of luck man :cheers:
Do me next (again).
r0tor's more right than wrong ITT. There are many inconsistencies with your 'SPIN persona and at times it's just too much.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 27, 2017, 05:36:56 PM
Do me next (again).
r0tor's more right than wrong ITT. There are many inconsistencies with your 'SPIN persona and at times it's just too much.
What's Rotor right about specifically? Lots of vague "this is quite suspicious!" type comments from both of you (assuming you're not the same person which I'm not convinced of), not much in way of specifics.
Everything ITT is entirely consistent with my only persona.
You've certainly revealed yourself as far more of a consumerist than your own 'Spin 'persona' up to this point, hints at some other inconsistencies as well.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 27, 2017, 05:36:56 PM
Do me next (again).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7vzgIOPAps
This thread is like Mean Girls meets The Bachelor. Who will get Lebowski's last rose?
Quote from: veeman on September 27, 2017, 04:50:22 PM
Just wondering if the 50,000 on the odometer Lexus RX is on its original brakes and tires or second set? If on the first, they're both going to have to be replaced soon.
At 50K, on some of my cars, I'd be on my fifth set! I think the best I ever did was something like 25,000 to 30,000 miles.
Quote from: Raza on September 28, 2017, 06:58:40 AM
At 50K, on some of my cars, I'd be on my fifth set! I think the best I ever did was something like 25,000 to 30,000 miles.
For me it's about 50,000 miles for tires. My Infiniti QX56 only lasted 35,000; maybe because they're 22s, I don't know. Brake job if I remember right is usually around 50,000 miles.
Back on thread topic - goal is to save money AND make wife happy so new CRV vs 3 yr old Lexus RX with 50,000 miles. For me no matter how reliable a brand like Lexus is, it's still significantly more expensive to service/maintain than a CRV. Everything is more expensive like tires, brakes, etc and you'll need to replace them sooner than you would in a new car. All that goes out the window if wife is leaning towards it though and the Lexus will feel and drive a lot better than a CRV. CRV chassis is based on something similar to a Civic I thought. Smoothness, interior quality including that of leather, isolation will all be better in the Lexus. Lexus RX curb weight is close to 1,000 lbs more than that of a Honda CRV.
I'd take the Lexus if wife likes it and if it was a real good deal knowing I'll have to pay a grand or likely more to get new tires and a brake job real soon.
Quote from: Raza on September 28, 2017, 06:58:40 AM
At 50K, on some of my cars, I'd be on my fifth set! I think the best I ever did was something like 25,000 to 30,000 miles.
M3 got 16k out of original set. Not that it was a surprise (inline with the C6) but when it was time for tires was one of the things that triggered the thought in my head "why am I driving a car like this when the thing is usually driven at like 1-2 10ths, only once in awhile sees even 5 10ths".
4Runner at 95k miles I believe is on only its second set, and still has some tread left.
RX if we went that way I'd just deal with after and replace if necessary. It's my mom so not like I'm gonna be like "sorry mom I'm deducting tires and brakes from kbb".
Just wondering if living in sin might change the equation. The M3's performance would come in handy for escaping the fires of Hell & eternal damnation.
:devil:
Quote from: Raza on September 28, 2017, 06:58:40 AM
At 50K, on some of my cars, I'd be on my fifth set! I think the best I ever did was something like 25,000 to 30,000 miles.
At 220,000 kilometres, my wife's Escape is still on the original set of Michelins; but we've used a set of snow tires for 4-5 months of each year. Still the original set of snows as well. Treads are not bad, but this is likely the last season for them.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 28, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
At 220,000 kilometres, my wife's Escape is still on the original set of Michelins; but we've used a set of snow tires for 4-5 months of each year. Still the original set of snows as well. Treads are not bad, but this is likely the last season for them.
How old is the car? Even if there is enough tread, the rubber will lose its features. I currently drive c. 40 000 miles annually, XC90 gets about 20 000 miles on a set of summer tires. Winter tires seem to last a bit longer.
Without exception I've found tires fitted on new cars are crap and always die young.
Quote from: autokomppania on September 28, 2017, 03:20:50 PM
How old is the car? Even if there is enough tread, the rubber will lose its features. I currently drive c. 40 000 miles annually, XC90 gets about 20 000 miles on a set of summer tires. Winter tires seem to last a bit longer.
'09 Escape. Tires were checked by a mechanic.
My '01 Escape did well on tires also. Original Firestones lasted about 120,000 kilometres, the Hankooks I replaced them with were still on it when I sold it at 270,000 kilometres a couple of years ago.
JFC. You must be very easy on tires :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 28, 2017, 07:05:33 PM
JFC. You must be very easy on tires :lol:
Driving slowly and smoothly enough to have tires last that long is a skill that only comes with age.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 28, 2017, 07:05:33 PM
JFC. You must be very easy on tires :lol:
Most of the mileage was on fairly empty country blacktops. My commute on a daily basis was about 55 km each way without much braking, turning sharp corners or stop and go. Got real good distance on the brake pads/shoes as well.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 28, 2017, 07:26:39 PM
Driving slowly and smoothly enough to have tires last that long is a skill that only comes with age.
I usually travel about 10-20 km over the speed limit; the speed limit on the roads I took was 80kph.
Also, I'm a very smooth driver :praise:.
As an interesting note, when Jimmy Clark drove for Lotus back in the '60s, before he was killed, he often managed to get a couple of F1 races out of the same set of tires. As well, in the rain, he typically finished minutes ahead of the rest of the pack. A gentle touch makes a lot of difference to the vehicle. Not claiming I'm anywhere near that good, but it always impressed me.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 28, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
At 220,000 kilometres, my wife's Escape is still on the original set of Michelins; but we've used a set of snow tires for 4-5 months of each year. Still the original set of snows as well. Treads are not bad, but this is likely the last season for them.
You should probably change those. Rubber degrades over time regardless of use.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 28, 2017, 07:26:39 PM
Driving slowly and smoothly enough to have tires last that long is a skill that only comes with age.
I burned my Passat's fronts nearly to the cords in 12,000 miles. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 28, 2017, 08:45:17 PM
You should probably change those. Rubber degrades over time regardless of use.
:hesaid:
I replaced my car's tires (Bridgestones) about two years ago, and whilst they still had some tread on 'em, were only six years old and only had about 60,000 km on them they were definitely worn out. Performance in less-than-ideal weather was terrible.
Quote from: 93JC on September 28, 2017, 08:48:44 PM
:hesaid:
I replaced my car's tires (Bridgestones) about two years ago, and whilst they still had some tread on 'em, were only six years old and only had about 60,000 km on them they were definitely worn out. Performance in less-than-ideal weather was terrible.
Compared to what I've driven in, and on, over the years, they're still are pretty good, but I take your point.
Thread update:
I have mentioned in unrelated threads recently, but wanted to update here, she ended up deciding on the 2011 RX, now with ~60k miles. I also handed over the keys to the M3 yesterday, I didn't want to update this thread til that was done.
Thoughts on the RX now that we've had it about a month - well its no CRV obviously but nonetheless she likes it a lot. It is noticeably more refined and drives more carlike compared to the 4Runner, and I think the size better fits her needs as well. Interior is pretty good, infotainment sucks but that was a known and she doesn't really care. Fuel economy isn't as good as the CRV obviously (I'm not sure what she's averaging honestly) and it takes premium, which I didn't realize, but that's really moot as the economy is more than offset by significantly lower purchase price plus flatter depreciation curve at this point in its life. Styling is meh, but that was known and it blends in which I think is good.
Sale price on the M3 came out to $50k even, and I'm happy with that. KBB was ~$52k but it was apparent from watching listings on Bimmerpost and elsewhere that was a little optimistic as the used market for these has been pretty slow, I believe bmw has had some incentives on new ones esp leases, so I basically used that as my asking price with the expectation of getting a bit less. Buyer seems cool and is way more of an enthusiast than I am (tracks his cars etc) which is good, and he apparently financed 100% of purchase price or close to it, which is great as I'm sure dude is crushing the spread bras. Overall I'm happy with how things turned out - I liked the car but am also glad to have it sold, and for owning a car like that only ~3 years, $22k in depreciation seems pretty modest. Buying it satisfied an itch I needed to scratch, now that that's done I don't see myself buying a german or new luxury car like it again anytime soon (won't say never, but not something on my radar now).
On driving the 4Runner - I like it, and honestly each of us having a car that can do dog duty and carry larger loads is a big convenience. Several times already after work I've had to run by Home Depot or pick up a dog from the vet, and being able to do that stuff without having to meet up and switch cars is huge. I like that it blends in, I like that I don't care if it gets dirty or someone dings me etc.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Thread update:
I have mentioned in unrelated threads recently, but wanted to update here, she ended up deciding on the 2011 RX, now with ~60k miles. I also handed over the keys to the M3 yesterday, I didn't want to update this thread til that was done.
Thoughts on the RX now that we've had it about a month - well its no CRV obviously but nonetheless she likes it a lot. It is noticeably more refined and drives more carlike compared to the 4Runner, and I think the size better fits her needs as well. Interior is pretty good, infotainment sucks but that was a known and she doesn't really care. Fuel economy isn't as good as the CRV obviously (I'm not sure what she's averaging honestly) and it takes premium, which I didn't realize, but that's really moot as the economy is more than offset by significantly lower purchase price plus flatter depreciation curve at this point in its life. Styling is meh, but that was known and it blends in which I think is good.
Sale price on the M3 came out to $50k even, and I'm happy with that. KBB was ~$52k but it was apparent from watching listings on Bimmerpost and elsewhere that was a little optimistic as the used market for these has been pretty slow, I believe bmw has had some incentives on new ones esp leases, so I basically used that as my asking price with the expectation of getting a bit less. Buyer seems cool and is way more of an enthusiast than I am (tracks his cars etc) which is good, and he apparently financed 100% of purchase price or close to it, which is great as I'm sure dude is crushing the spread bras. Overall I'm happy with how things turned out - I liked the car but am also glad to have it sold, and for owning a car like that only ~3 years, $22k in depreciation seems pretty modest. Buying it satisfied an itch I needed to scratch, now that that's done I don't see myself buying a german or new luxury car like it again anytime soon (won't say never, but not something on my radar now).
On driving the 4Runner - I like it, and honestly each of us having a car that can do dog duty and carry larger loads is a big convenience. Several times already after work I've had to run by Home Depot or pick up a dog from the vet, and being able to do that stuff without having to meet up and switch cars is huge. I like that it blends in, I like that I don't care if it gets dirty or someone dings me etc.
You sure Rotor didnt buy your car?
Quote from: Xer0 on January 20, 2018, 03:10:39 PM
You sure Rotor didnt buy your car?
No dice, Rotor didn't have enough in his 401k and couldn't qualify for conventional financing. Plus, this guy is WAY more of an enthusiast than Rotor even in his wildest wet dreams.
That was a good price you got for the M3. Depreciation here would have been much higher. Congrats.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 20, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
That was a good price you got for the M3. Depreciation here would have been much higher. Congrats.
Yeah when I first came up with this idea I assumed I'd take much more of a hit. When I first looked up kbb I thought to myself "that can't be right", turned out it was a little optimistic but not way off. Not something I want to repeat every three years but for a one off where my needs changed, I can certainly live with it.
2011 Lexus RX?
...
This thing?
(https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/900x600/260509.jpg)
Uhm...
I'm sure things will pick up. Stay positive! :ohyeah:
Yep, but in an uglier color and with smaller wheels.
Things are the best they've ever been, but thanks anyway.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2018, 04:46:54 PM
Yep, but in an uglier color and with smaller wheels.
Things are the best they've ever been, but thanks anyway.
Good attitude! :ohyeah:
:lol:
You can use 87 octane gas in a 2011 Lexus RX without damaging the engine. You might get less gas mileage and performance but it won't hurt the engine.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 20, 2018, 04:37:50 PM
2011 Lexus RX?
...
This thing?
(https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/900x600/260509.jpg)
Uhm...
I'm sure things will pick up. Stay positive! :ohyeah:
I don't get what's so bad about that- it's not trying to be a Lotus Exige..?
They've aged well IMO and the things gonna last you a long time. If the M3 was more of a pain than a pleasure, this was a very solid move.
Wouldn't surprise me if the next car I got was a 4Runner. They're so easy to live with, and so dependable.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 21, 2018, 12:11:22 AM
I don't get what's so bad about that- it's not trying to be a Lotus Exige..?
They've aged well IMO and the things gonna last you a long time. If the M3 was more of a pain than a pleasure, this was a very solid move.
It's not one of the "cool" CUVs bra, like an X3 or a Macan. Gotta have low profile tires to make it through the preschool parking lot.
I mean I get it, the RX is the quintessential old lady car. My mom is on like her third one, my stepmom is on her second, my grandma had one etc. It wouldn't have been what I chose had there not just happened to be a used one of known history available, but it fits her needs fine, was a bargain IMO, and my fiancé seems to think it's less dorky than a CRV. It's not the enthusiast's choice but she's not an enthusiast and I'm unconvinced enthusiast CUV isn't an oxymoron.
It's perfectly fine... I was just carrying on with the theme of the thread. :mrcool:
Quote from: Rockraven on January 21, 2018, 08:10:57 AM
It's perfectly fine... I was just carrying on with the theme of the thread. :mrcool:
I know :thumbsup:
Quote from: Rockraven on January 21, 2018, 08:10:57 AM
It's perfectly fine... I was just carrying on with the theme of the thread. :mrcool:
Ah gotcha
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Thread update:
I have mentioned in unrelated threads recently, but wanted to update here, she ended up deciding on the 2011 RX, now with ~60k miles. I also handed over the keys to the M3 yesterday, I didn't want to update this thread til that was done.
Thoughts on the RX now that we've had it about a month - well its no CRV obviously but nonetheless she likes it a lot. It is noticeably more refined and drives more carlike compared to the 4Runner, and I think the size better fits her needs as well. Interior is pretty good, infotainment sucks but that was a known and she doesn't really care. Fuel economy isn't as good as the CRV obviously (I'm not sure what she's averaging honestly) and it takes premium, which I didn't realize, but that's really moot as the economy is more than offset by significantly lower purchase price plus flatter depreciation curve at this point in its life. Styling is meh, but that was known and it blends in which I think is good.
Sale price on the M3 came out to $50k even, and I'm happy with that. KBB was ~$52k but it was apparent from watching listings on Bimmerpost and elsewhere that was a little optimistic as the used market for these has been pretty slow, I believe bmw has had some incentives on new ones esp leases, so I basically used that as my asking price with the expectation of getting a bit less. Buyer seems cool and is way more of an enthusiast than I am (tracks his cars etc) which is good, and he apparently financed 100% of purchase price or close to it, which is great as I'm sure dude is crushing the spread bras. Overall I'm happy with how things turned out - I liked the car but am also glad to have it sold, and for owning a car like that only ~3 years, $22k in depreciation seems pretty modest. Buying it satisfied an itch I needed to scratch, now that that's done I don't see myself buying a german or new luxury car like it again anytime soon (won't say never, but not something on my radar now).
On driving the 4Runner - I like it, and honestly each of us having a car that can do dog duty and carry larger loads is a big convenience. Several times already after work I've had to run by Home Depot or pick up a dog from the vet, and being able to do that stuff without having to meet up and switch cars is huge. I like that it blends in, I like that I don't care if it gets dirty or someone dings me etc.
Look, there's no shame in buying a used car, even at your age. People say that earning potential goes down once a man loses his hair. It's society's prejudices that are keeping you down, it's through no fault of your own. I truly hope that one day we can move past such frivolous and damaging societal norms and accept people for who they are. Even now, with things looking as bleak as they do, I believe in you.
:tounge:
No way, baldness is associated with higher earnings, and is way ahead of deficiencies like being short. My net worth has only increased with evey lost follicle, plus I save on haircuts, hair products etc.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 22, 2018, 05:07:59 AM
No way, baldness is associated with higher earnings, and is way ahead of deficiencies like being short. My net worth has only increased with evey lost follicle, plus I save on haircuts, hair products etc.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, Adam. Just know that I'm on your side and I'm looking into charities you can contact that will be in a position to help you out.
:lol:
You guys are the best! :wub:
Quote from: Raza on January 22, 2018, 05:47:54 AM
Whatever helps you sleep at night, Adam. Just know that I'm on your side and I'm looking into charities you can contact that will be in a position to help you out.
Thanks man. I know you've got an extensive list of therapists on the roladex, I'll keep that in mind.
What a POS.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 22, 2018, 09:44:41 AM
Thanks man. I know you've got an extensive list of therapists on the roladex, I'll keep that in mind.
It's not that big of a list, really. Less than 10, unless you count my physical therapist and my sport psychologists.