http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7-secret-info-and-renderings-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7-secret-info-and-renderings-news)
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2014-chevrolet-c7-corvette-artists-rendering-inline-1-photo-493668-s-original.jpg)
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2014-chevrolet-c7-corvette-artists-rendering-inline-2-photo-493671-s-original.jpg)
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2014-chevrolet-c7-corvette-artists-rendering-inline-3-photo-493672-s-original.jpg)
Looks OK from those pics. Not sure if I like it yet.
Still not a fan of the huge ass. It does look like it will have good visibility though. How real are these renderings, any ideas?
Looks like a transformer.
I like the front, hate the rear. Like the rear makes me angry that's how much I hate it.
I like the front but hate the rear.
Still a rendering.
They really need to specify the "artist's rendering" title of these photos.
No doubt it's very close, but still not quite the real thing.
These renderings are based on service manual drawings that leaked
Overall I like it, though I kind of wish it looked more like a Corvette. They made big strides in the exterior from the C5 to the C6. This looks more like an AM Zagato.
(http://www.0-60mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/aston-martin-v12-zagato-side.jpg)
Other than that, and the damn leaf springs, looks like a winner. No more interior gripes.
"Likewise, the fiberglass-reinforced plastic leaf springs in use under Corvettes for three decades carry on."
LOL, come on guys... I mean, I know they work, but man.... It seems like these would make chassis tuning excessively costly and complicated.
Not sure about the ass end. Kind of reminds me of the camaro back there and that's not a good thing. And the ugly ass vents on the hood are too much.
The Corvette is #4 on the C&D Lightning Lap and can run the 'Ring in 7:19 and you guys still complain about the leaf spring? Obviously it's working better than 99% of the other suspensions out there...
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
The Corvette is #4 on the C&D Lightning Lap and can run the 'Ring in 7:19 and you guys still complain about the leaf spring? Obviously it's working better than 99% of the other suspensions out there...
Did you read the post? This is going to turn into ShitSPIN, I can see it now...
C&D all but confirmed that that is indeed what the C7 will look like.
The lol leaf springs continue as it sounds like they're carrying over the C5/C6 space frame chassis so keeping the existing suspension layout was essentially mandatory.
Also, I've read more on the new LT1. GM claims it's the most significant rework of the SB Chevy V8 since its debut in 1955.
This should be merged with the other C7 thread.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
The Corvette is #4 on the C&D Lightning Lap and can run the 'Ring in 7:19 and you guys still complain about the leaf spring? Obviously it's working better than 99% of the other suspensions out there...
I've said this so many times that I'm tired of repeating it..........
The lines are a bit more reminiscent of the C3/C4 styling (a bit more curvier) than the recent models. Not too bad.
Lots of fussy details here that look tacked on, like those gaudy chrome gills. I hope the A-pillar comes in body colour. Final judgement when I see an actual car and interior.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 30, 2012, 02:48:38 AM
This should be merged with the other C7 thread.I've said this so many times that I'm tired of repeating it..........
I know. It's not like it's truck style leaf springs... it's a highly engineered transverse leaf spring (singular) that compliments a conventional sports cars rear suspension set up.
What I find most intriguing is the 7 speed manual that apparently will only use 4 gates for all gears (including reverse). Almost sounds like a return of the 4+3.
Quote from: MX793 on December 30, 2012, 07:09:47 AM
What I find most intriguing is the 7 speed manual that apparently will only use 4 gates for all gears (including reverse). Almost sounds like a return of the 4+3.
I can't wait to see how that works.
I generally like it, but am not a big fan of the rectangular tail lights. Corvette taillights should always be 4 round.
The leaf springs don't bother me, particularly if packaging is the reason they go that way as I've read (for those that actually buy the car, the decent trunk space is nice and was a big reason why the C6 was the only 2-seater I seriously considered as a daily driver back in '05-'06).
Quote from: Lebowski on December 30, 2012, 07:30:29 AM
I generally like it, but am not a big fan of the rectangular tail lights. Corvette taillights should always be 4 round.
Unless it's a '91-'96. Then square is OK.
Leaked drawing of the IP. Again, reserving final judgement until I see the real deal, but unimpressed so far. What the hell is #17? A screen in the steering wheel hub? :confused: Where is the e-brake handle?
(http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/C7-Corvette-Rendering-interior.jpg)
Quote from: S204STi on December 29, 2012, 11:58:32 PM
"Likewise, the fiberglass-reinforced plastic leaf springs in use under Corvettes for three decades carry on."
LOL, come on guys... I mean, I know they work, but man.... It seems like these would make chassis tuning excessively costly and complicated.
On the other hand, since they've been using and modifying the system for 30 years, you'd think they'd be total experts at leaf springs. Perhaps an advantage.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 07:55:38 AM
Leaked drawing of the IP. Again, reserving final judgement until I see the real deal, but unimpressed so far. What the hell is #17? A screen in the steering wheel hub? :confused: Where is the e-brake handle?
(http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/C7-Corvette-Rendering-interior.jpg)
17 is probably the air bag.
17 is the airbag
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 07:55:38 AM
Leaked drawing of the IP. Again, reserving final judgement until I see the real deal, but unimpressed so far. What the hell is #17? A screen in the steering wheel hub? :confused: Where is the e-brake handle?
(http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/C7-Corvette-Rendering-interior.jpg)
Probably an electric E-brake (if so, I'm guessing 23 is the E brake button).
Side vent looks a little ugly but the rest is OK.
Looks like the Solstice interior, which isn't promising.
Quote from: MX793 on December 30, 2012, 08:54:45 AM
Probably an electric E-brake (if so, I'm guessing 23 is the E brake button).
I hope you're wrong.
I can't imagine the interior being lousy this time.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 30, 2012, 08:38:22 AM
17 is probably the air bag.
It actually is a video screen, and is supposed to include GM's newest in air bag technology. In a collision, a video of an airbag is displayed. It is guaranteed to prevent common injuries caused by real air bag deployments.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 30, 2012, 09:27:49 AM
It actually is a video screen, and is supposed to include GM's newest in air bag technology. In a collision, a video of an airbag is displayed. It is guaranteed to prevent common injuries caused by real air bag deployments.
Is it a retina display? 4572 x 1950 would be good.
Quote from: Catman on December 30, 2012, 09:30:41 AM
Is it a retina display? 4572 x 1950 would be good.
Some kind of proprietary GM display that uses 100% organic plasma with a non-standard pixel size.
Quote from: Catman on December 30, 2012, 09:27:31 AM
I can't imagine the interior being lousy this time.
GM.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 09:18:14 AM
Looks like the Solstice interior, which isn't promising.
You mean facelifted C4 interior?
(http://image.corvettefever.com/f/9286356+w750+st0/corp_0703_09_z+1996_grand_sport_corvette+interior.jpg)
Yes, Corvettes must always have round taillights.
(http://image.vetteweb.com/f/8720813/vemp_0706_06z+1959_corvette_convertible+right_rear_view.jpg)
I'm shocked... the C6R had leaf springs. I guess if it ain't broke....
Quote from: Lebowski on December 30, 2012, 07:30:29 AM
I generally like it, but am not a big fan of the rectangular tail lights. Corvette taillights should always be 4 round.
The leaf springs don't bother me, particularly if packaging is the reason they go that way as I've read (for those that actually buy the car, the decent trunk space is nice and was a big reason why the C6 was the only 2-seater I seriously considered as a daily driver back in '05-'06).
That hatch area is huge for a 2 seat sports car. It easily swallowed all my groceries or luggage and gear when I made my cabin trips. As far as the Taillights I hope they're not the exact same ones that Chevy uses on the Camaro but but I don't mind them not being round.
This David Kimble drawing shows the C6 suspension pretty good. The whole assembly is tight and low (everything is within the wheel diameter), and the front and rear leafs replace the coils of other sports cars. Are coils more technologically advanced than composite leaf springs?
(http://www.corvettereport.com/wp-content/gallery/david-kimble-art/ss-15-david-kimble-c6-chassis.jpg)
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 09:20:00 AM
I hope you're wrong.
In a car like this... not bothered by it.
Quote from: S204STi on December 30, 2012, 11:27:07 AM
In a car like this... not bothered by this.
That avatar you've got........LOL.
lol... keep forgetting to change it back. Later.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
This David Kimble drawing shows the C6 suspension pretty good. The whole assembly is tight and low (everything is within the wheel diameter), and the front and rear leafs replace the coils of other sports cars. Are coils more technologically advanced than composite leaf springs?
(http://www.corvettereport.com/wp-content/gallery/david-kimble-art/ss-15-david-kimble-c6-chassis.jpg)
No, and don't get me wrong: still an amazing car. The racing versions get coil overs, which are better for tuning on the track. That's my only "gripe". I'd still take one in a heartbeat.
I got a pic of tach and info screen in the C7 but my effing photobucket won't log in.
Quote from: S204STi on December 30, 2012, 11:38:08 AM
lol... keep forgetting to change it back. Later.
No, no. Change not.
Quote from: S204STi on December 30, 2012, 11:38:51 AM
No, and don't get me wrong: still an amazing car. The racing versions get coil overs, which are better for tuning on the track. That's my only "gripe". I'd still take one in a heartbeat.
They don't get coilovers, just different leaf springs. It seems stupid as hell to me but apparently it works
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 30, 2012, 12:00:26 PM
They don't get coilovers, just different leaf springs. It seems stupid as hell to me but apparently it works
So it works but its stupid?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 30, 2012, 12:00:26 PM
They don't get coilovers, just different leaf springs. It seems stupid as hell to me but apparently it works
Really? The older C6R had coilovers, I thought. Or maybe not.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 30, 2012, 12:15:38 PM
Its needless complexity.
What??? The beauty is its simplicity.
http://www.corvetteracing.com/2012-specifications.shtml (http://www.corvetteracing.com/2012-specifications.shtml)
Leaf springs aren't complex.
Not complex at all. Why is it we all think we know better then the people who build these things?
Quote from: Onslaught on December 30, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
Not complex at all. Why is it we all think we know better then the people who build these things?
+1!
Quote from: Onslaught on December 30, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
Not complex at all. Why is it we all think we know better then the people who build these things?
The racing team apparently doesn't like them, so...
Look, it's like Mac Struts in terms of being a packaging compromise. A well-engineered compromise, but one nonetheless. And like with Porsche's use of struts (and BMW's) it works well.
For a street car I guess I don't care, but I find it intriguing, if I were in the market, for them to engineer one with coilovers for racing use. I think that's the one main reason why I would prefer the Viper.
Still, I'd own one of these.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 12:18:13 PM
What??? The beauty is its simplicity.
How is a multilayer multi material transverse leaf spring, with its polynomial force/deflection relationship, simpler than a 1 material linear force/deflection coil spring?
Guys, the Corvette's leaf springs are much more complex than a coil; in manufacturing (multiple layers, epoxy, curing), in design (variable rate in a leaf) and in application (acts as a roll bar, dealing with L/R cross talk).
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2012, 01:00:30 PM
Guys, the Corvette's leaf springs are much more complex than a coil; in manufacturing (multiple layers, epoxy, curing), in design (variable rate in a leaf) and in application (acts as a roll bar, dealing with L/R cross talk).
So why the lol?
I think the only reason people are talking shit about the leaf spring setup is because trucks use them and are deemed unrefined and un sporty.
I personally don't give a fuck and think the car is awesome (other than the weird 7 speed manual).
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 01:19:00 PM
So why the lol?
And in another thread he claims the car isn't "highly developed" enough. FailSPIN.
Quote from: S204STi on December 30, 2012, 12:55:42 PM
The racing team apparently doesn't like them, so...
Look, it's like Mac Struts in terms of being a packaging compromise. A well-engineered compromise, but one nonetheless. And like with Porsche's use of struts (and BMW's) it works well.
For a street car I guess I don't care, but I find it intriguing, if I were in the market, for them to engineer one with coilovers for racing use. I think that's the one main reason why I would prefer the Viper.
Still, I'd own one of these.
The racing team constantly adjusts the suspension for every race to get the fastest set up. Production cars don't really need adjustable suspension - most people will just muck it up anyway.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 30, 2012, 01:19:00 PM
So why the lol?
Complex doesn't automatically mean good or "highly" developed.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 30, 2012, 01:23:02 PM
I think the only reason people are talking shit about the leaf spring setup is because trucks use them and are deemed unrefined and un sporty.
I personally don't give a fuck and think the car is awesome (other than the weird 7 speed manual).
I don't care either, I love Corvettes. The leaf spring is just an aspect of it I find goofy
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2012, 02:40:43 PM
The racing team constantly adjusts the suspension for every race to get the fastest set up. Production cars don't really need adjustable suspension - most people will just muck it up anyway.
Yes, the point about chassis tuning is exactly why I'm not a huge fan.
True, it doesn't matter most of the time. If I want coilovers, I can buy a Viper.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 30, 2012, 03:20:31 PM
I don't care either, I love Corvettes. The leaf spring is just an aspect of it I find goofy
No, you see, you tried to make a reasoned argument as to why you don't prefer the OE setup, so now everyone is going to jump up and down screaming about how the car is just fine, ur a noob, etc. Even though you never denied it was a great car.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2012, 01:00:30 PM
Guys, the Corvette's leaf springs are much more complex than a coil; in manufacturing (multiple layers, epoxy, curing), in design (variable rate in a leaf) and in application (acts as a roll bar, dealing with L/R cross talk).
Ask racing drivers how they feel about progressive rate springs. They suck badly when it comes to predicting handling at the limit. Possibly why Vettes have perennially been known as nasty at the limit.
Quote from: S204STi on December 30, 2012, 08:53:53 PM
Ask racing drivers how they feel about progressive rate springs. They suck badly when it comes to predicting handling at the limit. Possibly why Vettes have perennially been known as nasty at the limit.
IIRC the fancy shocks help with driving at the limit. Probably why Pobst could take it around Laguna Seca faster than the Viper.
edit: Disclaimer - I'm not saying that is the only reason, just speculating. The super sticky tires probably helped a ton, along with 100 other variables between the cars.
edit #2: Motortrend seems to agree, though.
QuoteRegardless, we know the cars are just as quick as each other. It was the SRT's inferior shocks and brakes that prevented Randy from going totally flat in the Viper. Years ago, a Ferrari engineer was explaining to Randy, Angus and I that they (Ferrari) simply couldn't figure out how the Nissan GT-R is able to lap the Nurburgring Nordschleife so quickly. "Oh, I know why," Randy piped up. "Confidence. You can drive it faster because you're more confident." This seems to be exactly the case here with these two muscle-bound freaks.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/viewall.html#ixzz2GbJBR1oB (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/viewall.html#ixzz2GbJBR1oB)
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2012, 09:20:49 PM
IIRC the fancy shocks help with driving at the limit. Probably why Pobst could take it around Laguna Seca faster than the Viper.
edit: Disclaimer - I'm not saying that is the only reason, just speculating. The super sticky tires probably helped a ton, along with 100 other variables between the cars.
edit #2: Motortrend seems to agree, though.
Pobst is kind of a homer to me...I would put more emphasis on the tires and the brakes then the suspension (Viper has pretty nice shocks, just not constantly adjustable). MT, like so many people, seem to think that because the cars tires had the same wear ratings that they have equal levels of grip. That is completely wrong, and so they never address the fact that the ZR1 has significantly better tires on it. Good tires make the difference in confidence at the limit.
Hopefully it doesn't end up looking like that...
C7 tach.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/TWOBIGHEDZ/C7Gauges2_zpse6d6b534.png)
I dig. Glad they display oil temp; also, note the oil change interval.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 09, 2013, 07:23:52 PM
C7 tach.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/TWOBIGHEDZ/C7Gauges2_zpse6d6b534.png)
They cleverly put a C6 image in it.
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18b7iq9066ipnjpg/xlarge.jpg)
Live streaming of the debut on Facebook Sunday at 7pm
http://www.facebook.com/events/193963254080378/?suggestsessionid=1000026666174071357597089 (http://www.facebook.com/events/193963254080378/?suggestsessionid=1000026666174071357597089)
Quote from: thecarnut on December 30, 2012, 01:23:02 PM
I think the only reason people are talking shit about the leaf spring setup is because trucks use them and are deemed unrefined and un sporty.
I personally don't give a fuck and think the car is awesome (other than the weird 7 speed manual).
My housemate like freaked out when he heard about the 7-speed. He was like "oh my god, you're gonna be shifting SO much!" I was like...how is it honestly THAT different than a 6-speed? Adding one gear isn't gonna require Fast and the Furious numbers of shifts. It's like the difference between a 5- and 6-speed. I'm sure people were freaked out about those, too, but now it's the norm.
7 gears in a car with a stick is getting kinda crazy. Even in my Focus with 6 gears I would skip from 2nd to 4th and then to 6th. Just give me an ultra tall 6th.
The Chevy site is streaming it too.
http://www.chevrolet.com/one13thirteen.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/one13thirteen.html)
More speeds = quicker + more efficient.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2013, 10:16:39 PM
7 gears in a car with a stick is getting kinda crazy. Even in my Focus with 6 gears I would skip from 2nd to 4th and then to 6th. Just give me an ultra tall 6th.
I'm rather certain that 6th in the Vette is already quite tall, hence its rather good highway mileage. The way I figure/suspect, the 7th gear is about the same as 6th is now - maybe a little taller - allowing for another useable gear for the track and other spirited driving, with the 7th pretty much only useable at highway speeds. This, I am okay with.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 11, 2013, 11:42:47 PM
I'm rather certain that 6th in the Vette is already quite tall, hence its rather good highway mileage. The way I figure/suspect, the 7th gear is about the same as 6th is now - maybe a little taller - allowing for another useable gear for the track and other spirited driving, with the 7th pretty much only useable at highway speeds. This, I am okay with.
This.
With the amount of power the Vette makes, and the fact that very very few people ever take their cars to the track, 7 gears is overkill.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2013, 12:31:58 AM
With the amount of power the Vette makes, and the fact that very very few people ever take their cars to the track, 7 gears is overkill.
Alright, well. Go buy an electric car, then. They've only got one gear so you can be free of having options. :huh:
I admit, a 7 speed manual does seem weird. The stick returns to the 3/4 gate, which is the middle of the forward gears. Going to 7 gears adds a new gate. I could see a dedicated highway gear, but the Vette has so much power, it could get away with a 4 speed and no one would feel like it didn't fit.
Hell, until the C6, the Corvette was sold with a 4 speed auto.
Yeah. A 7-speed is just as awkward as a 5-speed. Which means...it isn't.
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 06:54:42 AM
I admit, a 7 speed manual does seem weird. The stick returns to the 3/4 gate, which is the middle of the forward gears. Going to 7 gears adds a new gate. I could see a dedicated highway gear, but the Vette has so much power, it could get away with a 4 speed and no one would feel like it didn't fit.
Hell, until the C6, the Corvette was sold with a 4 speed auto.
The Corvette's 7MT, like Porsche's, will not use 7 gates. The Corvette actually had a 7MT back in the 80s. That gearbox only had 4 gates (+1 for reversse).
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 12, 2013, 06:58:10 AM
Yeah. A 7-speed is just as awkward as a 5-speed. Which means...it isn't.
5 speeds are awkward. They're missing a gear. :lol:
Quote from: MX793 on January 12, 2013, 07:18:41 AM
The Corvette's 7MT, like Porsche's, will not use 7 gates. The Corvette actually had a 7MT back in the 80s. That gearbox only had 4 gates (+1 for reversse).
How does it work then? I've never seen the 911's new gearbox either.
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 07:29:03 AM
How does it work then? I've never seen the 911's new gearbox either.
I rescind my previous statement about the Porsche box, apparently it does have a 7th gear gate (I thought I had read it didn't).
According to the articles, Chevy will not use 7 forward gates. There's a couple of different ways to implement it. The old C4's 4+3 gearbox was a 4MT coupled with a 2 speed automatic secondary box. 2nd through 4th gears had an automatic "overdrive".
Semis are similar in that they utilize a 4-6 speed primary gearbox coupled to a 2-3 speed secondary (or range) gearbox which is also manually controlled. In semi trucks, which have 10+ forward gears, they use a regular 4, 5, or 6 MT shift pattern which you run through multiple times and you have to also change up the range box. So a 10 speed would have the same shift pattern as a 5MT. You shift up to 5th as you would normally, then to engage 6th (aka 1 Hi), you flick a switch on the shifter to select hi-range and shift back into the 1st gear gate and go through the gates again. In some older rigs, instead of a switch you actually had a second shift lever to control the range box. I would expect something a little more automated in the Corvette if they go the route of having fewer than 7 gates.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2013, 12:31:58 AM
With the amount of power the Vette makes, and the fact that very very few people ever take their cars to the track, 7 gears is overkill.
Um, your car has has 7 gears. LOTS of cars have 7 or more gears.
More gears = quicker + more efficient - both are very important attributes (more so the former) for this class and an automaker in general.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2013, 08:20:33 AM
Um, your car has has 7 gears. LOTS of cars have 7 or more gears.
More gears = quicker + more efficient - both are very important attributes (more so the former) for this class and an automaker in general.
My car doesn't have a stick and clutch pedal and that's my complaint. A 6 speed requires a lot of shifting so a 7 speed will require more. I doubt a 7 speed manual will make the Vette any faster since there will be time wasted changing gears. It's not a DSG, so shifting gears takes time.
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 06:54:42 AM
Hell, until the C6, the Corvette was sold with a 4 speed auto.
The 2005 C6 had the 4 speed also.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2013, 09:40:43 AM
The 2005 C6 had the 4 speed also.
Hmm. What year did it get the 6 speed tiptronic?
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Hmm. What year did it get the 6 speed tiptronic?
'06.
That would suck to have bought an '05 auto.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 12, 2013, 11:59:55 AM
'06.
That would suck to have bought an '05 auto.
I feel like it would suck to buy an auto 'Vette ever.
Don't they sell more auto Corvettes than manual Corvettes?
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 12, 2013, 12:06:52 PM
Don't they sell more auto Corvettes than manual Corvettes?
I imagine a lot more.
You'd think the fogies would appreciate the clutch, seeing as it'd take them back to their childhood and whatnot.
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 12:21:09 PM
I imagine a lot more.
I think it's only a slight majority. Something like 53%.
I think it's a pretty solid majority that's auto.
I remember the first one I test drove was an '05 4 speed auto, they didnt have a manual on the lot at the time. I went back and drive a manual later, though.
Quote from: Raza on January 12, 2013, 07:28:04 AM
5 speeds are awkward. They're missing a gear. :lol:
Well shit, they just need to make it an 8-speed, then. :lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2013, 09:59:40 PM
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18b7iq9066ipnjpg/xlarge.jpg)
Holy shit
Damn, that looks pretty good.
Agreed.
http://m.autoblog.com/2013/01/11/corvette-c7-leaked-on-cover-of-automobile/?post=1&icid=autoblog_river_article
Looks awesome
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2013, 09:59:40 PM
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18b7iq9066ipnjpg/xlarge.jpg)
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18b7i7e9k5g35jpg/original.jpg)
Quote from: thecarnut on January 12, 2013, 12:01:38 PM
I feel like it would suck to buy an auto 'Vette ever.
Mine was a 6sp auto and it wasn't so bad. But the next one I buy (C6 GS or C7) will be a manual.
I thought the same Rock.
...especially since the Corvette 6MT so easy to drive. If I had one, I would drive it every day and not bat an eye. It's just that livable.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2013, 08:31:38 AM
My car doesn't have a stick and clutch pedal and that's my complaint. A 6 speed requires a lot of shifting so a 7 speed will require more. I doubt a 7 speed manual will make the Vette any faster since there will be time wasted changing gears. It's not a DSG, so shifting gears takes time.
Then if not for performance and efficiency why did GM go with a 7 sp M/T (and 6 sp vs. 5 sp before that and 5 sp. vs. 4 sp. before that and 4 sp. vs. 3 sp. before that and 3 sp. vs. 2 sp. before that?)?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2013, 07:25:14 PM
Then if not for performance and efficiency why did GM go with a 7 sp M/T (and 6 sp vs. 5 sp before that and 5 sp. vs. 4 sp. before that and 4 sp. vs. 3 sp. before that and 3 sp. vs. 2 sp. before that?)?
The only place you might notice it is on a racetrack. Otherwise, I will go out on a limb here and say, it won't make a lick of difference in a car this powerful. I think there's a point where the number of gears is perfect and any less or more is too many or too few. 6 is that magic number in my book. I couldn't imagine driving a 5 speed again, but I couldn't imagine having to shift so much with a 7 speed for a tenth of a second.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2013, 09:57:39 PM
The only place you might notice it is on a racetrack. Otherwise, I will go out on a limb here and say, it won't make a lick of difference in a car this powerful. I think there's a point where the number of gears is perfect and any less or more is too many or too few. 6 is that magic number in my book. I couldn't imagine driving a 5 speed again, but I couldn't imagine having to shift so much with a 7 speed for a tenth of a second.
lol
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2013, 10:07:16 PM
What's so funny about that?
I can just see you getting into a car with a 5-speed and yelling "NO THIS IS NOT ENOUGH GEARS", and then getting out.
I drive a 5-speed. I'd like 6. 7 though... now that's going too far.
Actually, with adequate torque, I don't really need more than this.
I don't feel the need for a 6th gear in my car. :huh:
7th gear is just a trick to get EPA numbers up. Pure and simple.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 12, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
7th gear is just a trick to get EPA numbers up. Pure and simple.
Also to say "look, we have 7 gears!"
So is torque better than horsepower you guys?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 12, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
7th gear is just a trick to get EPA numbers up. Pure and simple.
Lower cruise RPM doesn't always equate to better MPG.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2013, 12:02:03 AM
Lower cruise RPM doesn't always equate to better MPG.
It does in a car that can pull from a dead stop in 6th gear.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 01:05:12 AM
It does in a car that can pull from a dead stop in 6th gear.
Almost any car can with a light enough touch on the clutch.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 13, 2013, 01:08:15 AM
Almost any car can with a light enough touch on the clutch.
Accent can take off in 2nd :praise:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 13, 2013, 01:08:15 AM
Almost any car can with a light enough touch on the clutch.
My El Camino absolutely cannot take off in 6th gear.
Reserving judgement until the complete unveiling. I rather see the car a bit more controversial in appearance than GM having played it too safe. It's not everyday they redesign the Corvette and I am so damn sick of the current model. The interior needed much work and exterior simply needed a complete make over. Yes. It still needs to scream 'Vette. It will.
THE REAL THING
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1081617_2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7-revealed-this-is-it (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1081617_2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7-revealed-this-is-it)
So they say!
:huh:
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2013, 09:54:35 AM
Reserving judgement until the complete unveiling. I rather see the car a bit more controversial in appearance than GM having played it too safe. It's not everyday they redesign the Corvette and I am so damn sick of the current model. The interior needed much work and exterior simply needed a complete make over. Yes. It still needs to scream 'Vette. It will.
:hesaid:
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bea0r787perjpg/xlarge.jpg)
Hopefully the real deal interior looks better.
Jalopnik is reporting now that the car will be called Corvette Stingray. :rockon:
You can't call it a Stingray unless it looks like a fish.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2013, 02:09:51 PM
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bea0r787perjpg/xlarge.jpg)
Hopefully the real deal interior looks better.
Jalopnik is reporting now that the car will be called Corvette Stingray. :rockon:
That is a clusterfutz
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2013, 02:09:51 PM
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bea0r787perjpg/xlarge.jpg)
Hopefully the real deal interior looks better.
Jalopnik is reporting now that the car will be called Corvette Stingray. :rockon:
That looks like a later model C4.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 13, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
My El Camino absolutely cannot take off in 6th gear.
You El Camino has a sixth gear?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 13, 2013, 02:39:01 PM
You El Camino has a sixth gear?
No... that's why it can't do it.
Quote from: r0tor on January 13, 2013, 02:29:39 PM
That is a clusterfutz
I'll wait for version 2, after the auto press rip this interior to shreds.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2013, 02:49:18 PM
No... that's why it can't do it.
That would be a problem.
Unveil in T minus 2 hours...
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2013, 02:49:18 PM
No... that's why it can't do it.
Thought Alex had a T56 in his El Camino
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2013, 02:35:35 PM
That looks like a later model C4.
That's exactly what I thought.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/zvwwlf.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/21dizdf.jpg)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3df32b3127ccef24f2915687800000040O00AZMmLVw3ZOGgPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/34o7zn4.jpg)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3df32b3127ccef24f7e9a284400000040O10AZMmLVw3ZOGgPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3df32b3127ccef24ef00108d400000040O10AZMmLVw3ZOGgPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3df32b3127ccef24f057ee93500000040O10AZMmLVw3ZOGgPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Those side profile and front fascia pictures are awesome. Still not sure about the rear though.
The rear would look awesome driving in the wet and seeing spray come through all the vents.
Putting my thumb over the roof tells me the roadster is going to look fantastic. :rockon:
Hell yes it will^
I sure hope GM does another commercial like this:
Chevrolet corvette 1984 Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP7ijUkgc-4#)
:wub:
Quote from: thecarnut on January 12, 2013, 10:12:19 PM
I can just see you getting into a car with a 5-speed and yelling "NO THIS IS NOT ENOUGH GEARS", and then getting out.
:lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 13, 2013, 03:23:57 PM
The rear would look awesome driving in the wet and seeing spray come through all the vents.
The vents make the back look droopy. Then again I disliked the vents on the LFA and it took me a while to warm up to them so I'll probably warm up to the Corvette as well.
50 minutes!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8377540247_bdc93f4618_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8377540523_177654c686_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8098/8378616756_086e3f78c9_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8377540569_7e2113bae3_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8378616338_e4983fc090_b.jpg)
Interior doesn't look bad, but did they actually go with an electric parking brake?! :rage:
God damn that sucks.
Though it does have a nice updated presence overall the design looks quite busy with a lot of details - vents/scoops, lots body line creases and angular details, 4 central exhaust tips, and the black A-pillar.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2013, 04:41:57 PM
Though it does have a nice updated presence overall the design looks quite busy with a lot of details - vents/scoops, lots body line creases and angular details, 4 central exhaust tips, and the black A-pillar.
The vent over the rear wheel seems especially unnecessary.
Also, good overall job keeping the Corvette design DNA yet keeping it modern + with the times.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 13, 2013, 04:44:17 PM
The vent over the rear wheel seems especially unnecessary.
Probably some sort of brake cooling vent. But yeah, it's gotta lot of vents/scoops - big one on the hood, behind the front wheels, top of rear wheels, and around the taillights.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8377600629_3928fda0d3_b.jpg)
ALL vents are functional.
Friggin badass. Back window shape is a nice historical touch.
I like what I see so far. What's the monthly payments on a $70,000 car? :hammerhead:
Functional or not, there are a lot of them.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2013, 04:51:44 PM
I like what I see so far. What's the monthly payments on a $70,000 car? :hammerhead:
I'm gonna need a 700 month lease.
Pretty good looking, but a little too busy. I think the C6 looks better.
Now that I look at it again the whole rear is very busy.
I WILL own this car........
Notice the climate controls for the passenger. On the passenger's vent. genius.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 13, 2013, 04:29:37 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8377540523_177654c686_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8377540569_7e2113bae3_b.jpg)
So is it a configurable LCD dash then? Or different dash options?
Unveil live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zsQGcD0TJvw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zsQGcD0TJvw#)!
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2013, 05:07:28 PM
So is it a configurable LCD dash then? Or different dash options?
Changes depending on what drive mode you've selected.
Interior feels high quality.
The rear is a bit busy, and I can't say I am a fan of the exhausts, but overall I love this!
Holy crap, so this car has 8 gates instead of a 4+3 type thing...
Quote from: thecarnut on January 13, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Holy crap, so this car has 8 gates instead of a 4+3 type thing...
Just like the 911. Not sure why people are so surprised.
Just saw the reveal. OMFG I WANT A STINGRAY.
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2013, 05:10:36 PM
Interior feels high quality.
Soft touch materials. No flash. Small panel gaps.
Real carbon fiber and aluminum in the interior as well.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2013, 05:18:40 PM
Soft touch materials. No flash. Small panel gaps.
Correct
Rev matching on downshifts!
Viper is ghey
The Viper looks dated compared to this car.
Gallery
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2014-chevrolet-corvette/med/#photo-5565920 (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2014-chevrolet-corvette/med/#photo-5565920)
Awesome
corvettestingray2014.com is down lol
That shot looks particularly good. Shows the fenders flared a bit...
Fuck. Yes. This thing is awesome.
Chevrolet hit the ball out of the part! Very daring. They did NOT play it safe at all. Thank God!
The interior is perfect! The exterior design surpasses my expectations. Too busy for some? There will be other variants. I do not have one single complaint.
GM failed to take a gamble with the MY14 Chevy and GMC pick-ups. They should have, IMO. Not the case with the 2014 Corvette from the photos and drawings.
Can't stop looking at it. Putting a kid on eBay ASAP!
I want this. Black, 7.0 liter V8 Z06 verison. #JizzinMyPants
Looks good. Busy, but good.
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2013, 05:32:36 PM
Can't stop looking at it. Putting a kid on eBay ASAP!
If your wife hates this Greg, we gotta talk :lol:
Looks like a Ferrari on the outside... And a Chevy on the inside
As I say... Often not unlike a broken record, I admit, a car of this magnitude needs to evoke passion (a love or hate it reaction). Mission accomplished, I must say. No "meh" factor, IMHO.
Quote from: MrH on January 13, 2013, 05:34:19 PM
I want this. Black, 7.0 liter V8 Z06 verison. #JizzinMyPants
I want black with red leather! Base model is fine for me.......Or should I wait for the drop top? :facepalm:
Quote from: MrH on January 13, 2013, 05:34:19 PM
I want this. Black, 7.0 liter V8 Z06 verison. #JizzinMyPants
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/224/974/90330f59_justin-timberlake-jizz-in-my-pants-12.jpg)
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2013, 05:35:02 PM
If your wife hates this Greg, we gotta talk :lol:
No, she likes it. Just showed her.
Quote from: r0tor on January 13, 2013, 05:38:13 PM
Looks like a Ferrari on the outside... And a Chevy on the inside
I definitely see an Italian flavor to it (Ferrari for sure) and more than a hint of the 2012 SRT Viper. These resemblances without being a clone or copycat, I think.
Why does the red interior car look like it's a manual trans but has flappy paddles?
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2013, 05:40:34 PM
I definitely see an Italian flavor to it (Ferrari for sure) and more than a hint of the 2012 SRT Viper. These resemblances without being a clone or copycat, I think.
They said they were going for an international appeal......
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2ll0obp.jpg)
It's almost too flashy...like a tuner car. It almost looks like it could be a Lingenfelter...almost.
Other than having too many gears, I think this car is awesome. You can definitely count me as a fan. I have been a Viper fan since Day 1 and I have always preferred the Viper to the Vette, but not anymore. Vette all the way now.
The headlights and the double bubble roof do look like direct Viper rip-offs, but big deal, this car is hotter...for the first time I can say that the Vette is hotter than the Viper. SRT played it way too safe with the new Viper's styling.
I would probably get it in dark grey or black to hide the hood vent.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 06:18:21 PM
I would probably get it in dark grey or black to hide the hood vent.
Like the dark grey myself. Too bad the red leather is too bright. I like the dark red in the BMW's.
Yeah, I think the vents should be body color.
(http://i.imgur.com/fGVGU.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 06:18:21 PM
I would probably get it in dark grey or black to hide the hood vent.
Looks awesome. I'll take one.
So how does this paddle thing work? They say "rev match" on them...but you still have a conventional stick?
I can't really come up with anything that makes sense. I've watching an hours worth of interviews hoping to find out.
Not sure I love the rear or the hood vent but overall not bad.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 13, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/fGVGU.jpg)
Now we're talking! :rockon:
From what I understand there should be Porsche like levels of interior options as far as appearance goes.
I like. Most importantly for me, what's the cheapest I'll be able to find a C6 for in a couple of years? C6 = my next car. :lol:
(Interior reminds me of the E31, looks awesome)
Wait....
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0uzGjccurCuISd39-4_Tznasy7sEyfnLgzuF8XLTLWg33UwEm)
Quote from: 850CSi on January 13, 2013, 06:43:08 PM
I like. Most importantly for me, what's the cheapest I'll be able to find a C6 for in a couple of years? C6 = my next car. :lol:
I'll give you a good deal on one in about 12 mos.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 13, 2013, 03:12:19 PM
Thought Alex had a T56 in his El Camino
Nah, just a 4 speed right now. T-56 is on the list for future upgrades.
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2013, 06:45:23 PM
Wait....
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0uzGjccurCuISd39-4_Tznasy7sEyfnLgzuF8XLTLWg33UwEm)
What, you mean the doors actually have to open?
Quote from: Lebowski on January 13, 2013, 06:51:56 PM
I'll give you a good deal on one in about 12 mos.
Not enough time. Won't have enough monies. :(
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 13, 2013, 07:03:20 PM
What, you mean the doors actually have to open?
That is a huge gap and the plastic is hard and creaky.
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2013, 07:05:44 PM
That is a huge gap and the plastic is hard and creaky.
:lol:
Quote from: S204STi on January 13, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
:lol:
Greg has been on a tear for more than a year now.
Quote from: 850CSi on January 13, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
Greg has been on a tear for more than a year now.
Pretty much. I am keeping my thoughts on the shoddy leather to myself for now.
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2013, 07:18:59 PM
Pretty much. I am keeping my thoughts on the shoddy leather to myself for now.
YoubetterdothatSPIN
On a serious note I can't wait to see performance number out of this car.
Quote from: MrH on January 13, 2013, 06:25:16 PM
So how does this paddle thing work? They say "rev match" on them...but you still have a conventional stick?
Tractor trailers have used rev-matching manual gearboxes for well over a decade that uses buttons on the shifter to actually trigger the rev match. I'm wondering if this is similar (you hit the paddle during the shift to match revs). Seems over-complicated since Nissan managed to build a box that would do it completely automatically.
I think they're just showing the consumer what the manual and automatic gearboxes will look like int he car without doing two mockups. I could be wrong though.
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2013, 07:26:34 PM
Tractor trailers have used rev-matching manual gearboxes for well over a decade that uses buttons on the shifter to actually trigger the rev match. I'm wondering if this is similar (you hit the paddle during the shift to match revs). Seems over-complicated since Nissan managed to build a box that would do it completely automatically.
I thought Autoblog said that the paddles deactivated it.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 13, 2013, 07:32:32 PM
I thought Autoblog said that the paddles deactivated it.
See. Told you I might be wrong. Seems stupid to have two big paddles instead of one steering wheel mounted button.
CarSPIN exclusive! The Corvette base model revealed:
(http://i.imgur.com/2TaeE.jpg)
Quote from: Laconian on January 13, 2013, 07:42:42 PM
CarSPIN exclusive! The Corvette base model revealed:
(http://i.imgur.com/2TaeE.jpg)
Looks like someone was murdered in the passenger seat.
Yes, those are the "60th Anniversary" bloodstains that come standard on all 2013s.
I like EVERY aspect of the car! From the Direct injection to the cylinder deactivation to the new interior to the 7 speed stick! 666 will you still take the GT500 over the C7?
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2013, 07:26:34 PM
Tractor trailers have used rev-matching manual gearboxes for well over a decade that uses buttons on the shifter to actually trigger the rev match. I'm wondering if this is similar (you hit the paddle during the shift to match revs). Seems over-complicated since Nissan managed to build a box that would do it completely automatically.
Hmm. Never knew of such a thing.
Technically speaking, rev matching is easier on a truck due to much slower revs and bigger gear teeth: plus, nobody really cares if it takes you an extra half second.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2013, 07:45:10 PM
I like EVERY aspect of the car! From the Direct injection to the cylinder deactivation to the new interior to the 7 speed stick! 666 will you still take the GT500 over the C7?
Yes, but only because I have kids.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb252/Tinshield/LOL_zps857522e4.jpg)
(http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/8377723789_18843c670f_b.jpg)
I like everything except the rear end. It's oh so busy and... trapezoidal. I guess the only saving grace of the ass is that it does away with the tradition of having enormous expanse of blankness for butt that I've disliked from C4 Vette onwards.
Quote from: Laconian on January 13, 2013, 07:59:54 PM
I like everything except the rear end. It's oh so busy and... trapezoidal. I guess the only saving grace of the ass is that it does away with the tradition of having enormous expanse of blankness for butt that I've disliked from C4 Vette onwards.
You summed up my thoughts exactly.
I really dig this car. I can't wait to read reviews and see real world photos.
Hey Laconian, why does the base model vette only have a 4 speed manual? :lol:
I really wish this car had a conventional 6 speed without the stupid rev matching feature and a real handbrake.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 07:48:10 PM
Yes, but only because I have kids.
I feel you. But I only got one kid (17) so I can play!!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2013, 08:05:20 PM
I feel you. But I only got one kid (17) so I can play!!
Yeah, mine are still young.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 13, 2013, 07:45:33 PM
Hmm. Never knew of such a thing.
Technically speaking, rev matching is easier on a truck due to much slower revs and bigger gear teeth: plus, nobody really cares if it takes you an extra half second.
I'm not sure how many rigs actually get spec'ed with it, but the tech has been out there since the 90s. The fleet I worked for had a rig that was actually running a prototype/pre-pro version of the rev-matching gearbox and later ended up buying one or two other trucks fitted with production versions. I know for certain we had at least one rig with it as far back as '98. Can't for the life of me remember the trade name of it, or which company made the gearbox. It was one of the major transmission companies for commercial vehicles. I remember looking it up a couple of years ago when Nissan debuted their Synchro Rev Match system in the 370Z.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-01_653_zps393246b6.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-03_653_zps782b47dc.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-04_653_zps869cf35a.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-05_653_zps9b2d5dd8.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-06_653_zpsabb3f986.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-07_653_zps4479a607.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-08_653_zps3fab4176.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-09_653_zps33b2efe5.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-10_653_zps164c77ab.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-11_653_zps83ea1968.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-13_653_zps519df349.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-14_653_zps920084fb.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-16_653_zps3e1cdffc.jpg)
Overall it's quite nice. Looks best from the front!
There's just something odd about a Corvette with C-pillars.
I'm in love with the whole package, rear end included. I have a new 3 year plan to buy an off-lease '14.
The more I look at the rear the more it bugs me. I still love the rest of it though.
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2013, 08:28:55 PM
There's just something odd about a Corvette with C-pillars.
Does this count?
(http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2007/03/30/14/32/1956_chevrolet_corvette-pic-61184.jpeg)
I'm a fan, but I like the C6 more.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 13, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/fGVGU.jpg)
I understand what they were going for, but interiors designed like this almost always lack flow and this is no exception. It's very visually unappealing, like they designed the interior and then said "Oh shit, we have to put another chair next to this one...let's just tack it on."
:huh:
I love how driver centric it is. The passenger's temperature isn't even in the center stack, but instead on the passenger air vent. Why? Because fuck having passengers :lol:
I don't know how I feel about it.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2013, 09:30:48 PM
I understand what they were going for, but interiors designed like this almost always lack flow and this is no exception. It's very visually unappealing, like they designed the interior and then said "Oh shit, we have to put another chair next to this one...let's just tack it on."
I dig that. The driver's side of the dash should be totally driver centric...and I really do love how the passenger's HVAC controls on his/her side.
Quote from: MrH on January 13, 2013, 09:32:15 PM
:huh:
I love how driver centric it is. The passenger's temperature isn't even in the center stack, but instead on the passenger air vent. Why? Because fuck having passengers :lol:
Yeah, but it looks terrible. Not feng shui at all. No flow. Soft touch blah blah blah, but it's not nice to look at in the pictures, anyway.
Also, count me in the minority that doesn't like this much. It's too "car of the future" instead of "car". It looks like something out of Minority Report. Great profile, but I'm not convinced by the front or the rear.
I think it's the greenhouse that's bothering me so much.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 09:37:18 PM
I dig that. The driver's side of the dash should be totally driver centric...and I really do love how the passenger's HVAC controls on his/her side.
Why not just go all the way and wall off the passenger from the driver completely?
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2013, 09:39:07 PM
Why not just go all the way and wall off the passenger from the driver completely?
That would be fucking cool. In a car like that I think I would kinda like to feel like I'm in the cockpit of a fighter jet.
It's too blocky; I wish some of those hard edges were smoothed out. I think the C6 is a better design.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 09:40:48 PM
That would be fucking cool. In a car like that I think I would kinda like to feel like I'm in the cockpit of a fighter jet.
Well there you go. Do not applaud half measures.
I think the rear wouldn't bother me so much if the lower "black" half was body colour. The rear is really starting to turn me off, but the rest of the car is looking better and better...even the hood vent that I so dearly wanted to hide. All of the car looks great, but the rear end ruins it for me...luckily only the losers would see it.
Not a huge fan of the exterior. The headlights look the same as those on the Viper, the hood vent is kind of strange and the rear is just ugly. I am also not in love with them using the Stingray name again, or the that badge. The side looks really nice though and I like the driver centric interior. I am sure it will be a demon performance wise.
I like the badge. :huh:
Quote from: 93JC on January 13, 2013, 10:03:54 PM
I like the badge. :huh:
First LT1, now Stingray...Makes me think GM is running short on inspiration. The original Stingray didn't need a stupid badge...its designers took inspiration from the animal and it showed in the design.
Quote from: LonghornTX on January 13, 2013, 10:12:46 PM
First LT1, now Stingray...Makes me think GM is running short on inspiration. The original Stingray didn't need a stupid badge...its designers took inspiration from the animal and it showed in the design.
It did have badges. Two of them, in fact. One above the RH tail lamps and one on the glove box door.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 13, 2013, 10:24:28 PM
It did have badges. Two of them, in fact. One above the RH tail lamps and one on the glove box door.
I meant in the shape of a stingray. The old ones were just words
Quote from: LonghornTX on January 13, 2013, 10:02:21 PM
Not a huge fan of the exterior. The headlights look the same as those on the Viper, the hood vent is kind of strange and the rear is just ugly. I am also not in love with them using the Stingray name again, or the that badge. The side looks really nice though and I like the driver centric interior. I am sure it will be a demon performance wise.
With a car this good there was no shortage of anything. "Stingray" was a good call. Most know it's a Corvette moniker yet it hasn't been used in many years. I would have preferred the original "Sting Ray" usage however. "LT1" goes back many years too.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 09:45:23 PM
...even the hood vent that I so dearly wanted to hide.
Quote from: LonghornTX on January 13, 2013, 10:02:21 PM
the hood vent is kind of strange and the rear is just ugly.
The hood vent is no worse than the one you guys love on the GT500..........
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2013, 10:38:03 PM
The hood vent is no worse than the one you guys love on the GT500..........
Who said we love the one on the GT500? I am not in love with it, though it seems to fit much better than this one.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 13, 2013, 09:41:23 PM
It's too blocky; I wish some of those hard edges were smoothed out. I think the C6 is a better design.
The Corvette has had "soft" edges since 1984. Time for a change!
Quote from: LonghornTX on January 13, 2013, 10:40:44 PM
Who said we love the one on the GT500? I am not in love with it, though it seems to fit much better than this one.
I've never seen you complain about the one on the GT500 either. And it doesn't fit any better than the one on the C7.
Versus the C6 the C7 is 100 lbs lighter, has VVT, ~20 more hp and likely more aggressive gearing. I'm going with:
0-40 in 3.9 sec
1/4 mile in 12.1 sec @ 117 mph
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2013, 10:38:03 PM
The hood vent is no worse than the one you guys love on the GT500..........
The one in the previous gen GT500 was terrible. The one in the new GT500 definitely works better than the one on the Vette even though I'm still not crazy about it.
JANUARY 12, 2013
Chevrolet reveals new Corvette in pre-sneak-preview sneak preview
by Otto Blopnik
Chevrolet has revealed pre-sneak preview reveal photos of the new 2014 Corvette ahead of the scheduled sneak preview reveal, media preview, media reveal, public media preview, preview reveal, public preview, and public reveal, some or all of which are scheduled for next week's North American International Auto Show Reveal in Detroit preview.
Media previewers were shocked to learn that the new Corvette looks nothing like the photos and images that have been circulating on the Web for months.
"It's true, the new 2014 Corvette looks a lot like the 2013 Malibu," sneaked Chevrolet spokesman Monte Carlo. "Actually, it is the 2013 Malibu, which has been rebadged as the Corvette."
Carlo said the change in body style was simply a matter of marketing.
"The terms '2014 Corvette' and 'C7 Corvette' have received over three hundred billion hits on Google in the last twelve months," he Googled. "Meanwhile, the term 'Chevrolet Malibu' has returned just four, at least 25% of which appear to be spelling errors. By changing the name of the car to Corvette, we're hoping to raise Chevrolet's profile in the mid-size sedan market."
"This is a big change for Chevrolet," analyzed Paul Eisensteinalysis, analyst for The Detroit Bureaucrat. "By changing the name of the Malibu, Chevrolet will change the car's name, and that represents a major change for Chevrolet, particularly to the name of the Malibu."
As for what will happen to the Malibu, Carlo said, "I can't really comment on future product, but you can expect the Malibu to re-emerge as a two-door fiberglass-bodied V8-powered coupe that will do nothing to change the perception that Americans don't know jack shit about building sports cars."
Asked about the alleged spy photos and computer-generated mock-ups that have appeared on sites such as Jablopnik and Autoblag, Carlo said, "Those are just some old photos from the C5 development program. Can you believe they took that shit seriously? It's like those mid-engine Corvette rumors from twenty years ago — turns out if you say the Corvette will be anything other than a plastic rear-drive coupe with an iron-block V8, it generates a shit-ton of ink. Seriously, man, you guys are too fucking easy. Hey, we're off the record, right?"
The hood vents on the Corvette are functional and at least creat some downforce.
I love everything about it. Rear end is the best part, IMO.
Going to the Utah show next Saturday. With any luck they'll have one there, but it might be too soon.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 14, 2013, 12:55:06 AM
I love everything about it. Rear end is the best part, IMO.
Going to the Utah show next Saturday. With any luck they'll have one there, but it might be too soon.
There's an auto show in Utah?
I cant wait to see it in laguna blue and lime rock green
Have to say, I really rather like it.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2013, 09:30:48 PM
I understand what they were going for, but interiors designed like this almost always lack flow and this is no exception. It's very visually unappealing, like they designed the interior and then said "Oh shit, we have to put another chair next to this one...let's just tack it on."
Yeah, not a huge fan of the interior design. It looks like the materials and seats got an upgrade, but the overall design is not appealing to me. Steering wheel looks kinda ugly, too.
I don't know, I don't love this car as much as I hoped I would, or as much as I loved the C6 when it first came out.
I'll need to see it in person. But I'm starting to not like it the more I look. It's got too much going on all over the place. It's like a redneck got a catalog and ordered parts on what was a nice looking car.
The exterior to me looks like a 599 with viper bits thrown on and a gtr A pillar added... It's blended nice though except for that damn hood vent.
I completely dislike the interior and how the driver is so segregated from the passenger... Does not flow at all
Quote from: Lebowski on January 14, 2013, 05:06:14 AM
Yeah, not a huge fan of the interior design. It looks like the materials and seats got an upgrade, but the overall design is not appealing to me. Steering wheel looks kinda ugly, too.
I don't know, I don't love this car as much as I hoped I would, or as much as I loved the C6 when it first came out.
I'm disappointed, too.
I think this car will grow old fast. Too fuzzy design. Probably awesome performance/cost though.
:wtf:
Quote from: r0tor on January 14, 2013, 05:35:40 AM
I completely dislike the interior and how the driver is so segregated from the passenger... Does not flow at all
I don't mind that part. Fuck the passenger.
I don't like the greenhouse at all.
A new generation Corvette for sure. Not just for the old beer belly retirees anymore :winkguy:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 08:25:13 PM
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-03_653_zps782b47dc.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-09_653_zps33b2efe5.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-14_653_zps920084fb.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-16_653_zps3e1cdffc.jpg)
These images are a lot less flattering than the ones Greg posted earlier, particularly the rear end. It looks very ... GM, I don't mean that in a good way.
I'll reserve further judgment til I see it in person this Saturday. I don't know, so far I'm just not loving it. I'm sure it'll be a beast performance wise, though.
Quote from: Onslaught on January 14, 2013, 06:59:49 AM
:wtf:
I don't mind that part. Fuck the passenger.
If that's what you're trying to do, it's going to be quite a reach over the optional wall.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 14, 2013, 07:50:53 AM
These images are a lot less flattering than the ones Greg posted earlier, particularly the rear end. It looks very ... GM, I don't mean that in a good way.
I'll reserve further judgment til I see it in person this Saturday. I don't know, so far I'm just not loving it. I'm sure it'll be a beast performance wise, though.
I think that red doesn't work for it. I saw it in a few other colors (namely gray and black) and it looks much better. Still, not as good looking as the C6.
It was on the news this a.m. that only high volume Chevrolet dealers meeting or exceeding sales quotas, agreeing to pay for the privilege of the new 'Vette and signing agreements with GM to make any needed upgrades will be able sell the new 2014 Corvette. I think this is how it's was gone with the Nissan GT and SRT Viper, eh?
Out local Chrysler-Jeep/Dodge-Ram outlet will be adding the SRT franchise in order to sell the current Viper upon completion of a new showroom. According to the owner, this was not a stipulation, rather the need for more space. The dealer also purchased several lots to add Fiat, Alpha Romeo and I think Maserati. His staff will be required to attend mandatory training to sell and service Viper's and later, all Italian makes and models added over time.
Chevy's story was on "business news" aired from Detroit, Michigan, but I did not catch the outlet while sitting in a busy waiting room earlier. This (if understood correctly) should keep profits and residual values up with competition likely reduced from dealerships mere miles apart competing.
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 07:53:02 AM
I think that red doesn't work for it. I saw it in a few other colors (namely gray and black) and it looks much better. Still, not as good looking as the C6.
Yeah, I'm playing with the configurator on their website, looks much better in silver. Still not as clean looking as the C6, though.
I'm not going to lie, this vehicle almost instills a sense of pride. First vehicle in awhile that I'm actually proud this country produced :lol:
To you guys jokingly talking about the interior, they brought in the big dogs on this one. Should be top notch.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2013, 08:14:19 AM
I'm not going to lie, this vehicle almost instills a sense of pride. First vehicle in awhile that I'm actually proud this country produced :lol:
To you guys jokingly talking about the interior, they brought in the big dogs on this one. Should be top notch.
The interior may be very high quality, that doesn't make it an appealing design.
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 08:18:35 AM
The interior may be very high quality, that doesn't make it an appealing design.
Well, that's at least subjective. Some seem to like it. At least we won't hear the Fischer Price mantra anymore.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
Well, that's at least subjective. Some seem to like it. At least we won't hear the Fischer Price mantra anymore.
You probably still will, from the British media. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
If that's what you're trying to do, it's going to be quite a reach over the optional wall.
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
You probably still will, from the British media. :lol:
:lol:
We'll still get something ridiculous out of Clarkson:
"This is the worst vehicle ever made. Absolute rubbish....BUT IT'S BRILLIANT!"
Some shit about how much it's fun because it's so crazy and deadly and poorly done.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 14, 2013, 07:00:42 AM
I don't like the greenhouse at all.
I like it! It doesn't look like a regular old hatchback anymore! I gotta see it in person but so far I have no complaints!
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 08:18:35 AM
The interior may be very high quality, that doesn't make it an appealing design.
The dash looks like a Sting Ray to me......
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 14, 2013, 01:02:51 AM
There's an auto show in Utah?
An auto expo, not a show where stuff is released.
Quote from: Onslaught on January 14, 2013, 06:59:49 AM
:wtf:
I don't mind that part. Fuck the passenger.
Agreed.
At least the rear end looks like they actually tried to style it, this time. In previous versions it's like they got bored at the back and gave up.
The rear end looks worse today than it did yesterday. I don't know how this styling will age gracefully at all.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2013, 06:13:21 PM
It's almost too flashy...like a tuner car. It almost looks like it could be a Lingenfelter...almost.
That is my complaint about the new Audi RS6, and the facelifted E 63 AMG. But this is a Vette. Yes they did overdo the rear, and the the quad exhaust pipes border on tacky, but all in all I really like this. I wonder if the vents would look better in body color though.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 14, 2013, 01:02:51 AM
There's an auto show in Utah?
(http://i.saffireevent.com/images.ashx?t=ig&i=QH%20Line%20Up(1).jpg&h=475&w=725&rid=AmericanRoyal)
Quad exhuast pipes are nothing new.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 14, 2013, 10:36:13 AM
Quad exhuast pipes are nothing new.
Yes, but I prefer them conservative in two groups of two.
Quote from: Galaxy on January 14, 2013, 10:39:49 AM
Yes, but I prefer them conservative in two groups of two.
+1
I have no complaints about the exhaust pipes.
(http://www.listofcarbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/chevrolet-corvette-zr1-rear-exaust-600x375.jpg)
The rear end of the car looks crappy today. They need to stop redesigning it overnight.
Really liking the back of the car now.
Quote from: Catman on January 14, 2013, 11:05:43 AM
The rear end of the car looks crappy today. They need to stop redesigning it overnight.
:lol:
Quote from: Catman on January 14, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
Really liking the back of the car now.
Did they change it again? Damn it.
Teuton said the rear end looks a lot better in person than it does in pictures. I will have to wait and see it in person I guess.
If this had a Lexus badge on it, we would be reading all kind of not so funny rice comments about the scoops and vents
Quote from: r0tor on January 14, 2013, 12:41:07 PM
If this had a Lexus badge on it, we would be reading all kind of not so funny rice comments about the scoops and vents
It is a bit MrHish, but since all the vents are functional, I'm giving it a pass.
I dig it in white and green.
Gran Turismo 5 Exclusive - 2014 Corvette Stingray Final Prototype (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDQP85h1_3s#ws)
Quote from: Raza on January 14, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
If that's what you're trying to do, it's going to be quite a reach over the optional wall.
I've done it in a Miata with the hard top on and I'm over 6'4". So Im sure I could do it in this thing even if I'm much older and not as flexible. Perhaps she'll be much younger and even more flexible.
Front and side profile are very nice.
The rear is a total disaster IMO. From the quad exhausts (so close to each other) to the light design.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on January 14, 2013, 05:30:35 PM
Front and side profile are very nice.
The rear is a total disaster IMO. From the quad exhausts (so close to each other) to the light design.
You will find it more appealing tomorrow.
Quote from: Catman on January 14, 2013, 05:50:10 PM
You will find it more appealing tomorrow.
Maybe it'll look better in person.
It will be some time before I see one on the streets here...
GM has been building great cars lately. I like the exterior of this new Vette.
Just a couple of weeks ago I went to a "premium" GM dealer nearby to check out the Camaro ZL-1 and the ZR-1. They didn't have the Camaro on the floor (will go again later) but they had a couple of base Vettes and a couple of ZR-1s. The ZR-1 looks amazing and I can see no fault with it other than the much criticized seats.
Considering that this new C8 will most likely be quite a bit cheaper than the next M3 (at least here) it will make a tempting proposition in time.
Car looks better in darker colors IMO. The vents contrast too much on the lighter colors.
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-004-650x273.jpg)
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-005-650x295.jpg)
Definitely. Much better there than in the earlier photos.
Quote from: Catman on January 15, 2013, 06:50:46 AM
Car looks better in darker colors IMO. The vents contrast too much on the lighter colors.
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-004-650x273.jpg)
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-005-650x295.jpg)
That looks much better.
Still not as clean as C6, though.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 15, 2013, 07:04:56 AM
Still not as clean as C6, though.
Agreed. I don't think I will ever get over the taillights, and I think the quads are too close to each other. I also still find it strange that the headlights look so similar to the Viper's. I guess the supplier got the last laugh on that one.
Overall, it is an improvement for me, based mainly on the interior.
This is from the Facebook page of star photographer Webb Bland. These are colors he creared for the car.
I'll take the orange 'Vette!
(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/393054_10100237922887817_521726911_n.jpg)
Quote from: Catman on January 15, 2013, 06:50:46 AM
Car looks better in darker colors IMO. The vents contrast too much on the lighter colors.
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-004-650x273.jpg)
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-005-650x295.jpg)
I'll take it.
Today it is looking much better than yesterday.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 15, 2013, 09:52:53 AM
Today it is looking much better than yesterday.
They redesigned it again last night.
I was pretty sure the rear would look better if it was body colour. Unfortunately the only time it is body colour is if the rest of the car is grey. I love the grey though, but sucks for the people who want red, white, green, or orange.
Black, please. :mrcool:
Quote from: Catman on January 15, 2013, 06:50:46 AM
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-005-650x295.jpg)
I think it could benefit from a more retro, smoother rear. I think going away from the round taillights is okay but it's too busy:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/09/lead7-2013-ferrari-f12-berlinetta-fd.jpg)
I really like it
Today
In dark grey or black I am totally and completely sold.
Black will look the best. You won't see that dumb, drooping black part of the tail lamps as much.
Black will look best but fuck it, I'm done with black cars.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 15, 2013, 03:43:20 PM
Black will look best but fuck it, I'm done with black cars.
Me too. I had a black Ram and I swore off black vehicles after that.
That's racist.
LOL
I'll never buy a black car again unless it's an FD that's just too good to pass. And even then I'd have a hard time doing it.
4 exhaust pipes together really looks dumb
Quote from: r0tor on January 15, 2013, 05:57:32 PM
4 exhaust pipes together really looks dumb
So does your face!
oh schnap!
It's ok. But I do think 2 on each side would look better.
They should have just went with 8 pipes so it looked more like a church organ
Will these line up correct? I noticed some Corvettes of the past don't.
Taillights look insane at night
Quote from: Catman on January 15, 2013, 06:50:46 AM
(http://stblogs.hotrod.com/files/2013/01/2014-Chevrolet-Corvette-005-650x295.jpg)
I've decided that I love everything about it. Even that weird rear end. I'm soo glad they finally moved past the "empty expanse of fiberglass" look the car's had for literally almost 30 years.
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3715/2014chevroletcorvettewh.jpg)
I'm happy to see it's not all Chromed out too much. Americans sure love their cars to have that crap all over it.
Taillights are wrong on the white one.
Yeah black was photoshopped out.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 15, 2013, 09:45:11 PM
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3715/2014chevroletcorvettewh.jpg)
That rear end looks much better ... now if they could just move the exhaust to where it belongs.
I like it in white.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 15, 2013, 10:08:08 PM
Yeah black was photoshopped out.
Looking at that picture i immediately thought this looks much better, however I could not point out the change until you posted that.
It looks so much better without the black plastic shit.
(http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/chevrolet/corvette-convertible/2014/ns/2014_chevrolet_corvette-convertible_r34_ns_11513_300.jpg)
Where'd you find that?
Pretty sure it's an edmonds photoshop.
Super HOT in white! S O L D :winkguy:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 15, 2013, 09:45:11 PM
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3715/2014chevroletcorvettewh.jpg)
Nice! I'll take one with red interior!
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=101&d=1358378855)
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=100&d=1358378855)
I don't know if it's the fighter jet enthusiast in me, but I love the quad-stack exhaust.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 16, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
I don't know if it's the fighter jet enthusiast in me, but I love the quad-stack exhaust.
I love the quad exhaust as well. I don't know what's wrong with the other fuckers on this forum.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 16, 2013, 05:06:06 PM
I love the quad exhaust as well. I don't know what's wrong with the other fuckers on this forum.
Fags. All of them.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 16, 2013, 05:06:06 PM
I love the quad exhaust as well. I don't know what's wrong with the other fuckers on this forum.
:hesaid: Looks better than the "Gap Tooth" Quads the Vette has had since '97!
They look like portholes :nutty:.
This car looks soooo long. I don't know why.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 16, 2013, 06:11:02 PM
This car looks soooo long. I don't know why.
Because it's soooo low.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 16, 2013, 06:12:35 PM
Because it's soooo low.
How tall is it? The C6 doesn't look that big and I don't think it's much (if any) taller.
I think I need to see it in person.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 16, 2013, 06:14:11 PM
How tall is it? The C6 doesn't look that big and I don't think it's much (if any) taller.
I think I need to see it in person.
C6 is only 49 inches tall.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 16, 2013, 04:57:53 PM
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=101&d=1358378855)
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=100&d=1358378855)
¡me gusta mucho!
Once I'm old enough to have a mid-life crisis, I'll hopefully be able to actually afford one of these beauties. Nice.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 16, 2013, 04:57:53 PM
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=101&d=1358378855)
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?s=7d04ec42dd65b2ef252b68b31fa7e55b&attachmentid=100&d=1358378855)
(http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/picdump-697-26.jpg)
That looks pretty awesome.
The hood vent still doesn't look good in any other colour but grey or black. Maybe it will look better tomorrow.
God damn. That looks good.
The C6 had a great shape about it, but there was something off about it that I still cannot put my finger on. Maybe it was because it always looked a bit cheap, and the details were uninspiring and plain.
But the C7...the C7 looks fantastic.
Quote from: Submariner on January 17, 2013, 12:06:05 PM
God damn. That looks good.
The C6 had a great shape about it, but there was something off about it that I still cannot put my finger on. Maybe it was because it always looked a bit cheap, and the details were uninspiring and plain.
But the C7...the C7 looks fantastic.
It's almost C6... with a some sinister Lamborghini mixed in.
I don't see any Lamborghini in this at all. Ferrari maybe, but not Lamborghini.
Wheels too big but hnnng
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/1991_490061991045854_755631134_n.jpg)
Why is everyone fapping over tons of photoshop and cgi images... very few of any of the pics posted here are real
Quote from: r0tor on January 18, 2013, 04:12:33 PM
Why is everyone fapping over tons of photoshop and cgi images... very few of any of the pics posted here are real
Same reason guys fap over airbrushed photos in Maxim and Playboy :huh:
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 18, 2013, 04:14:16 PM
Same reason guys fap over airbrushed photos in Maxim and Playboy :huh:
HAHAHA... yes
Quote from: SVT666 on January 17, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
I don't see any Lamborghini in this at all. Ferrari maybe, but not Lamborghini.
Referring to audatiousness... not any particular styline cue.
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 18, 2013, 04:14:16 PM
Same reason guys fap over airbrushed photos in Maxim and Playboy :huh:
Word. A good friend of mine produced a few videos for Playboy Mexico. From what he tells - 95% of the girls you see have been airbrushed into perfection. No wonder why chicks feel so insecure.
Did you get Dove's "Real Beauty" campaign in the U.S? I think it was great.
So what you dream about buying a corvette that is fake? Umm ok
Fake? That's the new Corvette.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 18, 2013, 05:10:10 PM
Word. A good friend of mine produced a few videos for Playboy Mexico. From what he tells - 95% of the girls you see have been airbrushed into perfection. No wonder why chicks feel so insecure.
Did you get Dove's "Real Beauty" campaign in the U.S? I think it was great.
Yeah. The video of that was really eye opening.
Quote from: r0tor on January 18, 2013, 05:15:18 PM
So what you dream about buying a corvette that is fake? Umm ok
I mean, I'm sure you'll be able to put those rims on it. It's not like someone put a jet engine on the back of it....?
The red one with the wheels has had its proportions altered to be shorter and taller... Essentially squished and then slammed to the ground.
Wow, looks pretty damn good in person, better than pics. Couldn't sit in it or get too close, but interior really does look to be a big upgrade, and also looks better than the pics.
Totally agree. I snagged a few shots. I'll post them today sometime.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 19, 2013, 08:22:32 AM
Wow, looks pretty damn good in person, better than pics. Couldn't sit in it or get too close, but interior really does look to be a big upgrade, and also looks better than the pics.
so are you going to trade the C6 in on one?
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 19, 2013, 03:00:59 PM
so are you going to trade the C6 in on one?
I plan to replace the C6 around the end of this year, the C7 and 991 are pretty much the only contenders.
I was surprised how much I like the C7 in person, given how lukewarm I was on the pictures. It's excellent ... I went back to it 3-4 times throughout the day. There's still a few things I'd have done differently (the hood vent, the taillight treatment) but the overall lines of the car are perfect. Also, they had a red one in addition to the gray on display, the red looks great in person (as did the gray, but I think my concerns that it would only look good in gray or black have been alleviated).
Sounds good. I'll get to see one in person next month. I will own one but i just can't buy one new (just got a new house). In 2-3 years I'll pick one up. I'm still thinking about getting another C6 until I purchase a C7.
Damn this looks excellent. I always thought I'd not buy another Corvette (because I plan now on keeping mine forever and would not rather own two similar cars), but this is making me waver on that.
Quote from: 565 on January 19, 2013, 06:28:23 PM
Damn this looks excellent. I always thought I'd not buy another Corvette (because I plan now on keeping mine forever and would not rather own two similar cars), but this is making me waver on that.
This is the best "Update" since 1984! I even like the sting ray shaped tail lights!
At the NAIAS in Detroit today, the buzz was that of a far, far more favorable response from younger, non-Chevy types compared to current Corvette and even Camaro owners. Many people were saying that the '14 'Vette looks much like the former Dodge Viper, new MY13 SRT Viper or an Italian sports car -- in the most complimentary ways. As I have been saying for years, a car like this one that you either love or hate -- the 2014-MY Corvette Stingray, not unlike the exotics evoke a deep passion. Sixty years of passion in many ways for GM loyalists. No one at the Chevrolet stand at the show seemed to have a ho-hum attitude about it.
Too bad the Utah show was this weekend, one week isn't enough time for them to display one of these. I'll have to figure out a way to see a new one soon.
Maybe when I drive back to KY in May I can stop by Bowling Green and watch 'em crank out some of the new ones.
This car does look great. If I was in the mood for a two-car household this would be a definite contender.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 19, 2013, 04:20:32 PM
I plan to replace the C6 around the end of this year, the C7 and 991 are pretty much the only contenders.
I was surprised how much I like the C7 in person, given how lukewarm I was on the pictures. It's excellent ... I went back to it 3-4 times throughout the day. There's still a few things I'd have done differently (the hood vent, the taillight treatment) but the overall lines of the car are perfect. Also, they had a red one in addition to the gray on display, the red looks great in person (as did the gray, but I think my concerns that it would only look good in gray or black have been alleviated).
Uh-oh, you're turning into a 'Vette-only man! Perfect for Florida :lol:
For some reason, it looks kinda Ferrari-ish.
But I love it.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 13, 2013, 04:38:01 PM
Interior doesn't look bad, but did they actually go with an electric parking brake?! :rage:
God damn that sucks.
Why is it so bad?
I guess the only reason I wouldn't like it is because I'd be afraid it'd break. And I LOVE the new Corvette! If I were out shopping for a car...I'd buy one.
Pricing? When does the convertible come out?
Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on January 20, 2013, 10:08:58 AM
Why is it so bad?
I guess the only reason I wouldn't like it is because I'd be afraid it'd break. And I LOVE the new Corvette! If I were out shopping for a car...I'd buy one.
Pricing? When does the convertible come out?
it's gonna start around 55k. Don't know when the vert comes out.
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18egvx6jepmhmjpg/k-bigpic.jpg)
Fuck, it does look good in that blue though...
Someone already crashed one? :facepalm:
That looks good in blue ... I always sorta regretted not getting my C6 is lemans blue.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 13, 2013, 11:56:32 AM
That looks good in blue ... I always sorta regretted not getting my C6 is lemans blue.
That's the most saut after color for ZO6s.
The previous blue I've seen looks lighter though.
In that picture above, it looks almost dead on to my Subaru World Rally Blue that I :wub: Blue and black are hands down the best color on these. I saw the gray in person and it wasn't bad, but wouldn't be my pick.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 13, 2013, 09:22:20 AM
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18egvx6jepmhmjpg/k-bigpic.jpg)
That color is great; too bad about the panel gap and the scratches from the factory though.
Thanks. I've been brain farting all day.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 13, 2013, 12:38:49 PM
Thanks. I've been brain farting all day.
:lol:
I'm taking a break from getting my ass kicked by a transmission replacement. I don't usually do these because of the lack of a hoist and tranny jack, but this is sort of a charity job, so... I feel a bit retarded at the moment.
Fuck, even wrecked it looks fantastic.
Quote from: S204STi on February 13, 2013, 12:40:06 PM
:lol:
I'm taking a break from getting my ass kicked by a transmission replacement. I don't usually do these because of the lack of a hoist and tranny jack, but this is sort of a charity job, so... I feel a bit retarded at the moment.
I can get 20% off anything at harbour freight...
Also you can order through your dealer body color vents and shit.
Really? Any links? That's some interesting news. Would be a huge improvement on some colors like red.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 13, 2013, 01:37:57 PM
Also you can order through your dealer body color vents and shit.
Ordered as factory option or some chintzy dealer add on shit?
Quote from: 68_427 on February 13, 2013, 01:37:57 PM
Also you can order through your dealer body color vents and shit.
Caveat: you have to order a black car.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 13, 2013, 01:37:16 PM
I can get 20% off anything at harbour freight...
That would have been useful an hour ago. :facepalm:
That is a terrible parking job.
Horrible body gap on that roof panel
First Look: 2014 Corvette Stingray - Jay Leno's Garage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrQrAn_hNA#ws)
By Nat Shirley Tuesday
The Chevrolet Corvette has improved exponentially over the years, but it's also become considerably more expensive: the 2013 Corvette carries a base price of $50,595, putting it out of reach for many enthusiasts.
To make America's sports car accessible to a broader range of 'Vette fans, Chevrolet is planning a new low-cost model known as the Corvette Coupe, according to a Motor Trend report.
In place of the Corvette Stingray's 450-horsepower 6.2-liter LT1 V8, the Coupe will reportedly use a direct-injection 5.3-liter V8. A relative of the 5.3-liter mill that recently debuted in GM's new-generation pickups, the engine will likely produce fewer than 400 horsepower, although mileage should be improved over the larger LT1.
Chevrolet reportedly considering fitting the Corvette Coupe with a twin-turbocharged V6, but the mill didn't provide enough of an fuel efficiency benefit to make it to production.
Outside, a revised front fascia, front fender and rear diffuser will differentiate the Coupe from its more potent Stingray sibling. No word on whether the Coupe will replace the standard model's removable roof panel setup with a fixed roof, as did the C5 Corvette Hardtop.
The Corvette Coupe is expected to land in showrooms in 2015. No pricing information has been released, but look for the entry-level 'Vette to start comfortably below $50,000.
This is a great idea.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 26, 2013, 01:52:13 PM
This is a great idea.
+1
I can get behind this and it should still provide somewhere between 350hp C5 and 400hp C6 straight line speed which is still really quick.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 26, 2013, 01:51:08 PM
By Nat Shirley Tuesday
The Chevrolet Corvette has improved exponentially over the years, but it's also become considerably more expensive: the 2013 Corvette carries a base price of $50,595, putting it out of reach for many enthusiasts.
To make America's sports car accessible to a broader range of 'Vette fans, Chevrolet is planning a new low-cost model known as the Corvette Coupe, according to a Motor Trend report.
In place of the Corvette Stingray's 450-horsepower 6.2-liter LT1 V8, the Coupe will reportedly use a direct-injection 5.3-liter V8. A relative of the 5.3-liter mill that recently debuted in GM's new-generation pickups, the engine will likely produce fewer than 400 horsepower, although mileage should be improved over the larger LT1.
Chevrolet reportedly considering fitting the Corvette Coupe with a twin-turbocharged V6, but the mill didn't provide enough of an fuel efficiency benefit to make it to production.
Outside, a revised front fascia, front fender and rear diffuser will differentiate the Coupe from its more potent Stingray sibling. No word on whether the Coupe will replace the standard model's removable roof panel setup with a fixed roof, as did the C5 Corvette Hardtop.
The Corvette Coupe is expected to land in showrooms in 2015. No pricing information has been released, but look for the entry-level 'Vette to start comfortably below $50,000.
Interesting idea. Curious to see how (or if) it works.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 26, 2013, 01:51:08 PM
By Nat Shirley Tuesday
The Chevrolet Corvette has improved exponentially over the years, but it's also become considerably more expensive: the 2013 Corvette carries a base price of $50,595, putting it out of reach for many enthusiasts.
To make America's sports car accessible to a broader range of 'Vette fans, Chevrolet is planning a new low-cost model known as the Corvette Coupe, according to a Motor Trend report.
In place of the Corvette Stingray's 450-horsepower 6.2-liter LT1 V8, the Coupe will reportedly use a direct-injection 5.3-liter V8. A relative of the 5.3-liter mill that recently debuted in GM's new-generation pickups, the engine will likely produce fewer than 400 horsepower, although mileage should be improved over the larger LT1.
Chevrolet reportedly considering fitting the Corvette Coupe with a twin-turbocharged V6, but the mill didn't provide enough of an fuel efficiency benefit to make it to production.
Outside, a revised front fascia, front fender and rear diffuser will differentiate the Coupe from its more potent Stingray sibling. No word on whether the Coupe will replace the standard model's removable roof panel setup with a fixed roof, as did the C5 Corvette Hardtop.
The Corvette Coupe is expected to land in showrooms in 2015. No pricing information has been released, but look for the entry-level 'Vette to start comfortably below $50,000.
Corvettes have always been outside many (er, most) enthusiasts' means - it's always been one of Detroit's most expensive cars.
Part and parcel of buying "premium" in the US is the ego boost that comes from spending a lot of money - for example there would be relatively little market for a stripper $40k E-class or 5 series (hence why they're not sold here).
I'm gonna guess it's not going to work all that well (= will sell a lot less than the Stingray).
Quote from: GoCougs on February 26, 2013, 02:28:12 PM
Corvettes have always been outside many (er, most) enthusiasts' means - it's always been one of Detroit's most expensive cars.
Part and parcel of buying "premium" in the US is the ego boost that comes from spending a lot of money - for example there would be relatively little market for a stripper $40k E-class or 5 series (hence why they're not sold here).
I'm gonna guess it's not going to work all that well (= will sell a lot less than the Stingray).
Unless it looks better. Which it pretty much has to, right? I mean, this isn't as good looking as any previous Corvette, so nowhere to go but up from here.
Wait, is it going to have new sheetfiberglass or is it just a lower power engine in the current Corvette?
Totally improbable, but I think it would be cool if the base corvette had a straight 6 like the C1.
Quote from: Raza on February 26, 2013, 02:32:42 PM
Unless it looks better. Which it pretty much has to, right? I mean, this isn't as good looking as any previous Corvette, so nowhere to go but up from here.
Wait, is it going to have new sheetfiberglass or is it just a lower power engine in the current Corvette?
Just the engine will be differant with revised rear splitter and front "bumper". I think it'll work If GM can start it close to 45k.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 26, 2013, 01:51:08 PM
By Nat Shirley Tuesday
The Chevrolet Corvette has improved exponentially over the years, but it's also become considerably more expensive: the 2013 Corvette carries a base price of $50,595, putting it out of reach for many enthusiasts.
To make America's sports car accessible to a broader range of 'Vette fans, Chevrolet is planning a new low-cost model known as the Corvette Coupe, according to a Motor Trend report.
In place of the Corvette Stingray's 450-horsepower 6.2-liter LT1 V8, the Coupe will reportedly use a direct-injection 5.3-liter V8. A relative of the 5.3-liter mill that recently debuted in GM's new-generation pickups, the engine will likely produce fewer than 400 horsepower, although mileage should be improved over the larger LT1.
Chevrolet reportedly considering fitting the Corvette Coupe with a twin-turbocharged V6, but the mill didn't provide enough of an fuel efficiency benefit to make it to production.
Outside, a revised front fascia, front fender and rear diffuser will differentiate the Coupe from its more potent Stingray sibling. No word on whether the Coupe will replace the standard model's removable roof panel setup with a fixed roof, as did the C5 Corvette Hardtop.
The Corvette Coupe is expected to land in showrooms in 2015. No pricing information has been released, but look for the entry-level 'Vette to start comfortably below $50,000.
How exactly is a different small block V8 going to dramatically drop the price of the car? The LT1 is not as exotic as, say, the LS7 or LS9. I find it hard to believe it costs that much more than a GenIV small block to produce. And if it is that much cheaper with a Gen IV motor, why not use a 400+ hp L92 (Vortec 6200) or even the LS3 from the C6 Corvette? The 5.3L being a smaller displacement doesn't make it significantly, if at all, less expensive to make than a larger displacement version.
Quote from: MX793 on February 26, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
How exactly is a different small block V8 going to dramatically drop the price of the car? The LT1 is not as exotic as, say, the LS7 or LS9. I find it hard to believe it costs that much more than a GenIV small block to produce. And if it is that much cheaper with a Gen IV motor, why not use a 400+ hp L99 (Vortec 6200) or even the LS3 from the C6 Corvette? The 5.3L being a smaller displacement doesn't make it significantly, if at all, less expensive to make than a larger displacement version.
If it's going to be a volume model, then the cost goes down. Besides, they are charging what people will pay, and a Corvette with less than 400 hp isn't going to command as high of a price, especially when it will also have a stripped interior and probably a non removable roof.
Quote from: MX793 on February 26, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
How exactly is a different small block V8 going to dramatically drop the price of the car? The LT1 is not as exotic as, say, the LS7 or LS9. I find it hard to believe it costs that much more than a GenIV small block to produce. And if it is that much cheaper with a Gen IV motor, why not use a 400+ hp L99 (Vortec 6200) or even the LS3 from the C6 Corvette? The 5.3L being a smaller displacement doesn't make it significantly, if at all, less expensive to make than a larger displacement version.
I never understood the logic behind things like this, either. Generally, not much can be changed. It would probably cost more money to redesign and retool everything to make the rest of the drivetrain and chassis components out of shittier parts. On the other hand, they can't save $10K by just tossing in a truck motor.
None of this story makes any sense. I'm going to call BS on it.
The 5.3 is used in the fullsize trucks as well.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 26, 2013, 07:59:00 PM
The 5.3 is used in the fullsize trucks as well.
So is the L92/Vortec 6200. So why not use the more powerful L92 in this rumored "cheap" model? Can't cost any more to make than the Vortec 5300.
Because the 6.2 won't get the same f/e and would be too close in power to the lt1
The Corvette will never be a volume seller. No two seater at that price point will be. There is little to gain from a cost perspective in doing this. Whatever small amount of additional sales wouldn't justify the effort.
Quote from: MrH on February 26, 2013, 08:09:45 PM
The Corvette will never be a volume seller. No two seater at that price point will be. There is little to gain from a cost perspective in doing this. Whatever small amount of additional sales wouldn't justify the effort.
+1
Volume model for a Corvette does not have economies of scale.
Burlap seats, truck motor, no cruise control, sealed beam headlamps, no radio, vinyl floor, rear drum brakes, and 15" wheels and it would still cost $40,000. :lol:
The internet sells LC9 5.3 crate motors for $4,778
LS3 for $6,193
LS7 for $10,582
YMMV
Quote from: MX793 on February 26, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
How exactly is a different small block V8 going to dramatically drop the price of the car? The LT1 is not as exotic as, say, the LS7 or LS9. I find it hard to believe it costs that much more than a GenIV small block to produce. And if it is that much cheaper with a Gen IV motor, why not use a 400+ hp L92 (Vortec 6200) or even the LS3 from the C6 Corvette? The 5.3L being a smaller displacement doesn't make it significantly, if at all, less expensive to make than a larger displacement version.
Quote from: MrH on February 26, 2013, 07:58:31 PM
None of this story makes any sense. I'm going to call BS on it.
Yeah, thinking about I'm also going to call BS on the "report."
First, bad premise - "enthusiasts" are going to go after the top end (= performing) model mostly.
Second, the Corvette hasn't been about volume/segmentation since the mid '70s. From the mid-'70s onward, and definitely since the C4 ('84) onward, the Corvette has come with only one motor save for uber high end and low volume models (Z06, ZR1).
Third, pretty much all of the premium cost of the Corvette is in the space frame chassis, torque tube + rear mount tranny, plasticky body, and general low volume production of various bits and pieces. A cloth interior, simpler dash, 350 hp V8 and 6 sp M/T ain't going to drop manufacturing costs $7-10k or whatever margin would be needed to materially separate MSRP from the Stingray (without taking a bath that is).
Quote from: GoCougs on February 26, 2013, 08:39:14 PM
Yeah, thinking about I'm also going to call BS on the "report."
First, bad premise - "enthusiasts" are going to go after the top end (= performing) model mostly.
Second, the Corvette hasn't been about volume/segmentation since the mid '70s. From the mid-'70s onward, and definitely since the C4 ('84) onward, the Corvette has come with only one motor save for uber high end and low volume models (Z06, ZR1).
Third, pretty much all of the premium cost of the Corvette is in the space frame chassis, torque tube + rear mount tranny, plasticky body, and general low volume production of various bits and pieces. A cloth interior, simpler dash, 350 hp V8 and 6 sp M/T ain't going to drop manufacturing costs $7-10k or whatever margin would be needed to materially separate MSRP from the Stingray (without taking a bath that is).
Exactly. Any sales gains will mostly be at the cost of the Stingray anyways.
Sounds like BS to me, too.
They did end up doing the fixed roof coupe for the C5.
I could see them making another fixed roof coupe with the 5.3
We'll see
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on February 26, 2013, 08:18:11 PM
Burlap seats, truck motor, no cruise control, sealed beam headlamps, no radio, vinyl floor, rear drum brakes, and 15" wheels and it would still cost $40,000. :lol:
Hmm... I would like an all burlap interior
Quote from: r0tor on February 27, 2013, 04:10:41 PM
Hmm... I would like an all burlap interior
And I would enjoy a vinyl floor. Much easier to clean up bodily fluids.
Even at its previous price it was out of the range of the average buyer. Nothing really changed.
Quote from: S204STi on February 27, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
Even at its previous price it was out of the range of the average buyer. Nothing really changed.
The average price of a new car is now over $30K. The Corvette started at $42K two years ago, and all of a sudden it is going to be $50K. It used to be affordable to DINKs. Now it's a stretch.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 27, 2013, 07:52:05 PM
The average price of a new car is now over $30K. The Corvette started at $42K two years ago, and all of a sudden it is going to be $50K. It used to be affordable to DINKs. Now it's a stretch.
Meh.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 27, 2013, 07:52:05 PM
The average price of a new car is now over $30K. The Corvette started at $42K two years ago, and all of a sudden it is going to be $50K. It used to be affordable to DINKs. Now it's a stretch.
No way! a Base 2011 Vette was around 48k! IIRC NO C6 based at 42k.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on February 27, 2013, 08:32:43 PM
No way! a Base 2011 Vette was around 48k! IIRC NO C6 based at 42k.
Well, it was back in 2005. Anyway, I am in strong disagreeance with this whole increasing price deal.
2011 Prices: http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2010/06/07/gm-releases-prices-for-2011-corvettes/ (http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2010/06/07/gm-releases-prices-for-2011-corvettes/)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 27, 2013, 08:36:17 PM
Well, it was back in 2005. Anyway, I am in strong disagreeance with this whole increasing price deal.
I think the '05 was close to 42K.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 27, 2013, 08:36:17 PM
Well, it was back in 2005. Anyway, I am in strong disagreeance with this whole increasing price deal.
Dude 2005 was eight years ago.
I don't have a problem with the price increase, and it's still the best deal going by a long shot IMO.
Think how much people, even people who never would have bought the $42k Corvette, bitched and moaned about things like interior quality. You want things like a nicer interior, nicer seats etc that costs money.
I think the person who wrote that article is full of shit ... I think if you look over long periods of time, compared to inflation but more importantly compared to the cost of other cars, the Corvette is as affordable as its ever been. Go to BMW's website and price out a 3 series, go to Porsche website and price out a Boxster or Gayman.
Yeah, if the price stays the same and the interior quality goes up, that's money that isn't going to engine, suspension, and transmission dev. I was never going to buy a C7 anyway, but I'm okay with the prices. It's still not the car I'd buy for that kind of cash, but it still represents a great value in the marketplace.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 26, 2013, 02:09:11 PM
Interesting idea. Curious to see how (or if) it works.
One thing it will do is generate some additional showroom traffic and give the salesman the opportunity to push the higher priced models to those thinking of the low priced car.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 27, 2013, 08:36:17 PM
Well, it was back in 2005. Anyway, I am in strong disagreeance with this whole increasing price deal.
$42k in 2005 at only 2% inflation is $50k in 2014 ;).
Quote from: MiataJohn on February 28, 2013, 09:03:35 AM
One thing it will do is generate some additional showroom traffic and give the salesman the opportunity to push the higher priced models to those thinking of the low priced car.
Nah, not really. Prospective buyers will go to see a Corvette. Plus it is quite unlikely a dealer would have the cheapo model on display in the showroom. If anything the logic would be reversed - tire kickers go to see the $50k+ Stingray but get talked into the cheapo model (I don't buy the halo effect FWIW though).
Quote from: Raza on February 28, 2013, 07:19:39 AM
Yeah, if the price stays the same and the interior quality goes up, that's money that isn't going to engine, suspension, and transmission dev. I was never going to buy a C7 anyway, but I'm okay with the prices. It's still not the car I'd buy for that kind of cash, but it still represents a great value in the marketplace.
Not so sure about that. In specific the C7 is getting moderate/significant upgrades to engine (all-new small block V8), transmission (7 sp M/T) and suspension (magnetic particle shocks), in addition to a reported higher quality interior (still looks kinda cheap to me in that Leno video though - in fact the whole car does but w/e).
In general cars get cheaper to make relative to features/function/form - a C7 in 1990 would have been a $1MM car - owing to advancement in materials, technology (esp. processing power and display tech), design methods and manufacturing technologies.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 28, 2013, 09:55:02 AM
Not so sure about that. In specific the C7 is getting moderate/significant upgrades to engine (all-new small block V8), transmission (7 sp M/T) and suspension (magnetic particle shocks), in addition to a reported higher quality interior (still looks kinda cheap to me in that Leno video though - in fact the whole car does but w/e).
In general cars get cheaper to make relative to features/function/form - a C7 in 1990 would have been a $1MM car - owing to advancement in materials, technology (esp. processing power and display tech), design methods and manufacturing technologies.
You're saying that an increase in cost of interior materials, design, manufacturing, and QC doesn't result in a decrease in resources for other aspects if the overall price of the product does not also increase given a constant profit margin?
Quote from: Raza on February 28, 2013, 09:57:08 AM
You're saying that an increase in cost of interior materials, design, manufacturing, and QC doesn't result in a decrease in resources for other aspects if the overall price of the product does not also increase given a constant profit margin?
In 1985, a 50" plasma was quite literally impossible to make at any price. Today, a 50" plasma is cheaper to make than a 25" CRT.
I'm saying an increase in
quality/form/function/etc. of interior materials, design, manufacturing and QC doesn't necessarily equate to an increase in cost. Lots of advancement happened in these and other areas in the last ~9 years (= since the C6 was designed).
Quote from: GoCougs on February 28, 2013, 09:11:34 AM
$42k in 2005 at only 2% inflation is $50k in 2014 ;).
Yup. Cars have gotten more expensive with inflation. In '05, a Mustang GT started at $25K. They start at just over $30K today.
Quote from: Raza on February 28, 2013, 09:57:08 AM
You're saying that an increase in cost of interior materials, design, manufacturing, and QC doesn't result in a decrease in resources for other aspects if the overall price of the product does not also increase given a constant profit margin?
Increase in content =/= increase in cost necessarily. The industry marches on, and produces more for less. "QC" is not really a variable cost you can just throw money into to increase your "quality".
Not sure where you're going with manufacturing and design.
Also, we don't know the margin. Price is driven by the market. Who knows what they're making, if anything, on this vehicle.
Quote from: MrH on February 28, 2013, 04:52:47 PM
Increase in content =/= increase in cost necessarily. The industry marches on, and produces more for less. "QC" is not really a variable cost you can just throw money into to increase your "quality".
Not sure where you're going with manufacturing and design.
Also, we don't know the margin. Price is driven by the market. Who knows what they're making, if anything, on this vehicle.
Good Internetry - demand defines price, not cost, in a perfectly efficient market. Still, my bet is the C7 isn't materially more expensive to produce than the C6 despite having all sorts of improvements, advancements and upgrades.
Holy shit, yes:
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18hkb4vkvi79sjpg/k-bigpic.jpg)
http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292 (http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292)
Holy shit, no.
Ugly, and not that much more practical.
I'd rock that. I've always liked shooting brakes a lot.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 15, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
Holy shit, yes:
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18hkb4vkvi79sjpg/k-bigpic.jpg)
http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292 (http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292)
That is some motivation. I need a job.
Quote from: Lebowski on March 15, 2013, 11:21:21 AM
Ugly, and not that much more practical.
I love the side profile. I think I'm just a sucker for shooting brakes.
Good luck seeing out the rear of that thing....
Chevrolet has announced performance figures for its all-new 2014 Corvette Stingray. Chevrolet's seventh-generation Corvette is scheduled to go on sale during the third quarter of 2013.
According to Chevy, the 2014 Corvette Stingray equipped with the optional Z51 Performance Package is capable of accelerating from 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, stopping from 60 in 107 feet and pulling 1.03 g during hard cornering. Those figures represent slight improvements over the outgoing Corvette Grand Sport model.
Chevrolet tested the 2014 Corvette's merits on the Virginia International Raceway's 4.2-mile "Grand Course", with the car returning a lap time of 2:51.78.
"For the new Stingray, we set out to elevate every aspect of the Corvette's performance," said Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer. "Considered alone, the acceleration, braking and cornering performance of the Corvette Stingray is truly impressive. More significant is how well they work together, resulting in a lap time at VIR that places the new Stingray in the upper echelon of all sports cars."
The Corvette that lapped VIR was equipped with the aforementioned Z51 package and Chevrolet's Magnetic Ride Control. Chevy says a Corvette spec'd to match the car that lapped VIR would set a buyer back $56,590.
The 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, which will offer up to 460 horsepower, will roll into showrooms this fall with a starting price of $51,995.
Nice.
God damn. $56k for a car that will do 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and set laptimes around VIR faster than a Gallardo and GT-R is fucking ridiculous. :rockon:
Quote from: thecarnut on March 15, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
Holy shit, yes:
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18hkb4vkvi79sjpg/k-bigpic.jpg)
http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292 (http://jalopnik.com/the-callaway-c21-aerowagon-is-the-corvette-stingray-sho-453832292)
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Michael-scott-no-god-no.gif)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/spudnik15/Gif%20Images/puking2.gif)
Quote from: thecarnut on June 20, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
God damn. $56k for a car that will do 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and set laptimes around VIR faster than a Gallardo and GT-R is fucking ridiculous. :rockon:
Yeah, that's crazy fucking fast. Who would have thought that there'd be a better performance value than the GT-R, like, ever?
Quote from: Raza on June 20, 2013, 01:51:23 PM
Yeah, that's crazy fucking fast. Who would have thought that there'd be a better performance value than the GT-R, like, ever?
It's almost half the cost.
GT-R is also a full second faster to 60.
Quote from: thecarnut on June 20, 2013, 01:57:32 PM
GT-R is also a full second faster to 60.
That's true.
How does the rolling start compare?
I don't think 0-60 is very relevant when comparing AWD vs. 2WD cars, the AWD car has a big advantage with standing stops and they are abusive on the cars anyways.
Quote from: Laconian on June 20, 2013, 02:00:27 PM
How does the rolling start compare?
I don't think 0-60 is very relevant when comparing AWD vs. 2WD cars, the AWD car has a big advantage with standing stops and they are abusive on the cars anyways.
I would imagine the corvette has a faster rolling start time but that's just a guess.
Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 4 Beta
That lap time is around a course layout that is rarely driven supposedly. You can't compare it to laptimes from C&D's lightning lap. I highly doubt it's lapping anything faster than a GTR. Sounds like a modest improvements over the base C6, which means it's still a monster. That lap time is disingenuous though.
Quote from: MrH on June 20, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
That lap time is around a course layout that is rarely driven supposedly. You can't compare it to laptimes from C&D's lightning lap. I highly doubt it's lapping anything faster than a GTR. Sounds like a modest improvements over the base C6, which means it's still a monster. That lap time is disingenuous though.
What would a comparable lap time be for the GT-R do you think?
Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Quote from: thecarnut on June 20, 2013, 02:24:45 PM
What would a comparable lap time be for the GT-R do you think?
Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 4 Beta
No idea. The vette ran on some course layout that is only run a couple times a year. Pretty much a meaningless number.
Quote from: thecarnut on June 20, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
God damn. $56k for a car that will do 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and set laptimes around VIR faster than a Gallardo and GT-R is fucking ridiculous. :rockon:
Agreed!
I would rather shoot myself than drive a Corvette shooting brake.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 20, 2013, 08:51:22 PM
I would rather shoot myself than drive a Corvette shooting brake.
Get the fuck out of here, a Corvette shooting brake would be awesome. If I had the money, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
Corvette shooting brake is stupid.
Quote from: CALL_911 on June 20, 2013, 09:16:06 PM
Get the fuck out of here, a Corvette shooting brake would be awesome. If I had the money, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
+1
How about a Corvette pickup that can tow a fifth wheel? Maybe a Corvette minivan? :lol:
Jalopnikgasm
Diesel Corvette shooting brake?
Quote from: thecarnut on June 20, 2013, 02:24:45 PM
What would a comparable lap time be for the GT-R do you think?
Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 4 Beta
In GT5, it's 5 seconds faster than the fastest car ever imaginable.
Quote from: Raza on June 21, 2013, 06:41:53 AM
In GT5, it's 5 seconds faster than the fastest car ever imaginable.
Wouldn't that make it 5 seconds faster than itself? Which would then have to be beaten by 5 seconds by itself?
woah :rastaman:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 21, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Wouldn't that make it 5 seconds faster than itself? Which would then have to be beaten by 5 seconds by itself?
woah :rastaman:
It finishes the lap before it even starts.
Corvetteception.
Price seems surprisingly low. I'll have to seriously consider a Corvette for my next car. :rastaman:
I've been thinking about it. I'd like a Corvette convertible. Hopefully it's stiff...
Quote from: Raza on June 24, 2013, 12:52:35 PM
:whatshesaid:
The Miata is a bit floppy, but I do enjoy it's light weight and small size. :lol:
Maybe I'll just have someone weld the doors shut and add a brace from the rear bulkhead to the firewall on each side.
It'd be nice to have the looks of the Corvette and a V8 soundtrack. I wonder if there'll be a manual roof option?
Need some Nurburgring times.
Quote from: Catman on June 24, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
Need some Nurburgring times.
Yeah, I can't tell if this car is fun without a lap time.
The 'ring is the worst thing that's happened to new cars :(.
According to you, lap times are all that matters.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 24, 2013, 10:53:02 PM
The 'ring is the worst thing that's happened to new cars :(.
Are you psychotic? That one statement alone seems to contradict and discredit EVERY post you've made in the poll I posted.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 24, 2013, 10:53:02 PM
The 'ring is the worst thing that's happened to new cars :(.
We have our very own James May on the 'spin. :lol:
Testing on the ring makes sense for sports cars. I agree that it's gone overboard.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 25, 2013, 02:31:01 PM
Are you psychotic? That one statement alone seems to contradict and discredit EVERY post you've made in the poll I posted.
He was being sarcastic. Cougs def won the internet on that one.
Quote from: SVT666 on June 18, 2013, 10:10:37 AM
I think the Nurburgring is the worst thing to happen to cars. Capability trumps driver interaction now.
The best track ever made is the worst thing to happen to cars. You know, I would have thought it would have been something like mass transit or global warming...
Craig's wording was off, but yea, the fetishizing of lap times around a track most Americans will never experience by drivers with skills most Americans will never come close to having has shifted the focus of development of many important drivers cars in the wrong direction. What winding American road can someone do average speeds of 90-110MPH (avg speeds of "respectable" Ring times) on legally + on a regular basis? Most American ROAD COURSES aren't that fast. Again I love the Ring, I race around it a good 2-3 times a day on Forza 4, but lap times around it are about as relevant as MT's "Figure 8" scores for a daily driver on American roads.
How can people keep clinging to this "'Ring = bad" premise?!
Corvette ZR1, Camaro ZL1, Lexus LFA, GT-R, 911, F458, M3, etc., etc., etc., are in all ways vastly superior to their predecessors and simply couldn't be built any better, under any premise or conditions. This is mostly all due to testing and resulting feedback loops, which includes (usually in small part IMO) time on the 'Ring and other road courses.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 26, 2013, 03:40:12 PM
Craig's wording was off, but yea, the fetishizing of lap times around a track most Americans will never experience by drivers with skills most Americans will never come close to having has shifted the focus of development of many important drivers cars in the wrong direction. What winding American road can someone do average speeds of 90-110MPH (avg speeds of "respectable" Ring times) on legally + on a regular basis? Most American ROAD COURSES aren't that fast. Again I love the Ring, I race around it a good 2-3 times a day on Forza 4, but lap times around it are about as relevant as MT's "Figure 8" scores for a daily driver on American roads.
Lol what do you want them to test and tune with then? Do you not want them to test the car at all?
Who said anything about testing being bad? Cmon guys.
What's your solution then? If the Nurburgring is a bad idea, offer up something better. I'm all ears...
Again, nobody said testing at the Nurburgring is bad... but the obsession with ring times by people who will prob never go to a race track is pretty silly. As is the equating of ring times with driving fun
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 26, 2013, 08:56:07 PM
Again, nobody said testing at the Nurburgring is bad... but the obsession with ring times by people who will prob never go to a race track is pretty silly. As is the equating of ring times with driving fun
I never once equated ring times with fun. SVT said the ring was the worst thing to happen to cars. If its the worst thing to happen to cars, surely it can't be a good idea to test there...
I'm pretty sure he meant the overprioritization of ring times by buyers and manufacturers, not the whole idea of cars on the Ring period. Using the ring to make a car better on the road and more fun to drive vs tuning a car to be as fast as possible on the ring are not the same thing. If it were the Radical SR8 would be an awesome road car (hint: it isn't)
Entertainment-wise I think Ring times for these types of cars is cool. For me, it's just curiosity. If I was to buy a C7 I wouldn't be too concerned over how fast it is. We know its plenty fast.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 27, 2013, 05:23:40 AM
I'm pretty sure he meant the overprioritization of ring times by buyers and manufacturers, not the whole idea of cars on the Ring period. Using the ring to make a car better on the road and more fun to drive vs tuning a car to be as fast as possible on the ring are not the same thing. If it were the Radical SR8 would be an awesome road car (hint: it isn't)
So the Ring isn't the worst thing to happen to cars, but rather people valuing the ring time over fun instead? Who's doing that? Why aren't those people the worst thing to happen to cars then, not the ring itself?
That's like saying publishing 0-60 times is ruining cars because that means they no longer car about cars being fun. No, it's not a one-or-the-other kind of situation at all. It's just a metric to try and measure performance.
And yes, the Radical SR8 would be fun as hell to drive on the street.
Quote from: MrH on June 27, 2013, 09:48:30 AM
So the Ring isn't the worst thing to happen to cars, but rather people valuing the ring time over fun instead? Who's doing that? Why aren't those people the worst thing to happen to cars then, not the ring itself?
That's like saying publishing 0-60 times is ruining cars because that means they no longer car about cars being fun. No, it's not a one-or-the-other kind of situation at all. It's just a metric to try and measure performance.
And yes, the Radical SR8 would be fun as hell to drive on the street.
Its like you are missing what I am saying on purpose :ugh:
Acceleration times are a great example. Cougs for example said he would like the FR-S only if it managed less than a 15.0 in the quarter mile :rolleyes: People rationalize the disengagement of the driver through technologies like DSGs in drivers cars by claims of "how much faster they shift". "I picked DSG because it will enable me to maintain more control under braking at the end of a straight of a race track I will never take my car to".
And an SR8 would literally be a pain in the ass on the street... the Ring is not glass smooth but it's definitely better than the street. Plus again the Ring is a very high speed track... you prob know better than anyone how w/analog suspensions you "can't have it all". If an SR8 is tuned to maximize grip at 120, 130, 150 MPH it's going to ride like ass at street speeds, which will erode performance, which detracts from enjoyability.
Im not saying (and never said :rolleyes: ) we shouldn't tune or measure cars' performance; I am just questioning the value of the fetishizing and obsession with said performance figures and the context and roads these cars are being designed for.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 27, 2013, 05:23:40 AM
I'm pretty sure he meant the overprioritization of ring times by buyers and manufacturers, not the whole idea of cars on the Ring period. Using the ring to make a car better on the road and more fun to drive vs tuning a car to be as fast as possible on the ring are not the same thing. If it were the Radical SR8 would be an awesome road car (hint: it isn't)
I thought the whole point of the Ring is that it's impossible to tune for given the sheer scope of the course and myriad of different challenges it poses to drivers? In effect you're tuning the car to do everything well.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 27, 2013, 10:08:18 AM
Its like you are missing what I am saying on purpose :ugh:
He is, which is why I left the conversation.
Quote from: Tave on June 27, 2013, 10:33:35 AM
I thought the whole point of the Ring is that it's impossible to tune for given the sheer scope of the course and myriad of different challenges it poses to drivers? In effect you're tuning the car to do everything well.
Various types of corners(banked, decreasing/increasing radius, flat, off camber) coupled with low speed setions and fast sweeping sections would test ALL the abilities of a car. That is the main reason the ring is the goto spot for automotive testing. That and I imagine there is some consistency for comparisons to other automakers.
Quote from: Tave on June 27, 2013, 10:33:35 AM
I thought the whole point of the Ring is that it's impossible to tune for given the sheer scope of the course and myriad of different challenges it poses to drivers? In effect you're tuning the car to do everything well.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 27, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
Various types of corners(banked, decreasing/increasing radius, flat, off camber) coupled with low speed setions and fast sweeping sections would test ALL the abilities of a car. That is the main reason the ring is the goto spot for automotive testing. That and I imagine there is some consistency for comparisons to other automakers.
It's not even silky, race track smooth everywhere either. It's a track where there's just about every road condition combined.
I'm not so sure James May is right on this one myself. I remember when the 997 came out, Porsche stated that it was faster around the Ring on the normal suspension setting and not sport, because the Ring was so bumpy, they were losing time on sport. It probably is the race track analogue closest to real life roads. But as with anything else, too much focus on any one thing at the detriment of another is a problem. Whether it's the Ring or soft touch plastics or whatever, it's all about balance.
Quote from: Raza on June 27, 2013, 11:30:41 AM
I'm not so sure James May is right on this one myself. I remember when the 997 came out, Porsche stated that it was faster around the Ring on the normal suspension setting and not sport, because the Ring was so bumpy, they were losing time on sport. It probably is the race track analogue closest to real life roads. But as with anything else, too much focus on any one thing at the detriment of another is a problem. Whether it's the Ring or soft touch plastics or whatever, it's all about balance.
The Viper ACR is nothing short of teeth rattling on public roads and it's the fastest production car around the Ring.
Quote from: MrH on June 27, 2013, 11:19:12 AM
It's not even silky, race track smooth everywhere either. It's a track where there's just about every road condition combined.
Except road speeds under 60 MPH. You know, like 85% of street driving... even "spirited" street driving on winding roads.
Quote from: SVT666 on June 27, 2013, 11:36:25 AM
The Viper ACR is nothing short of teeth rattling on public roads and it's the fastest production car around the Ring.
Yep. Again... tuning for max grip at 150 MPH is pretty much at odds with tuning for confidence at 50 MPH. By the decree of the Ring, a Renault Megane RS is a better car than an NSX-R. It's one of many metrics that sometimes yields interesting insights but not much else.
How is 'RingRAGE even still an issue here? The more performance automakers have focused on it (and its analog) the better performance cars have gotten.
Quote from: MrH on June 26, 2013, 06:09:31 PM
Lol what do you want them to test and tune with then? Do you not want them to test the car at all?
Arguing against a benchmark is idiotic. It's like public school teachers who rail against standards because they consistently fail to live up to them.
Quote from: MrH on June 26, 2013, 06:09:31 PM
Lol what do you want them to test and tune with then? Do you not want them to test the car at all?
That's how TVR did it. Worked for them (sort of).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 27, 2013, 12:35:53 PM
Except road speeds under 60 MPH. You know, like 85% of street driving... even "spirited" street driving on winding roads.
Yep. Again... tuning for max grip at 150 MPH is pretty much at odds with tuning for confidence at 50 MPH. By the decree of the Ring, a Renault Megane RS is a better car than an NSX-R. It's one of many metrics that sometimes yields interesting insights but not much else.
A viper is barely moving at 60 mph. You seem to have misdirected rage at fast cars more than anything.
Pretty much that. Remember guys, 200hp is enough for any enthusiast.
Quote from: S204STi on June 28, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Pretty much that. Remember guys, 200hp is enough for any enthusiast.
Nobody said that.
Everyone shut up, just shut up. :lockedup:
Quote from: Catman on June 28, 2013, 09:41:55 AM
Everyone shut up, just shut up. :lockedup:
Lock this bitch down, throw some of that mod power around and show these kids who's boss.
Quote from: MrH on June 28, 2013, 07:52:27 AM
A viper is barely moving at 60 mph. You seem to have misdirected rage at fast cars more than anything.
Naw but thanks for the projection. Ring is just one road, it is hardly a place representative of normal or even track driving for the avg dude. Since we are projecting it seems like you have a mindless hard on for the Ring. See how stupid that sounds :rolleyes:
Quote from: SVT666 on June 28, 2013, 08:44:16 AM
Nobody said that.
I did when the BRZ came out. There have been plenty of great cars (E30 M3, ITR, Silvia Turbo, Clio RS etc etc) that have had 200 HP and been great. BFRZ's big problem is more the torque curve than the HP.
But yea, while 200HP might not be enough, I dont think its unfair to say 900HP is too much.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 28, 2013, 12:46:29 PM
Naw but thanks for the projection. Ring is just one road, it is hardly a place representative of normal or even track driving for the avg dude. Since we are projecting it seems like you have a mindless hard on for the Ring. See how stupid that sounds :rolleyes:
I did when the BRZ came out. There have been plenty of great cars (E30 M3, ITR, Silvia Turbo, Clio RS etc etc) that have had 200 HP and been great. BFRZ's big problem is more the torque curve than the HP.
But yea, while 200HP might not be enough, I dont think its unfair to say 900HP is too much.
So 200 HP is too little, and 900 HP is too much...
So you're like Goldilocks, and a 5-cylinder rabbit is jusssssst right. Got it dude ;)
How can you say how great those cars are, and the BRZ isn't, when you haven't driven them?!
Quote from: MrH on June 28, 2013, 12:52:48 PM
So 200 HP is too little, and 900 HP is too much...
So you're like Goldilocks, and a 5-cylinder rabbit is jusssssst right. Got it dude ;)
How can you say how great those cars are, and the BRZ isn't, when you haven't driven them?!
200HP is too little, when I just named 5 GREAT cars w/no more than 200HP? BRZ having a wack torque curve = BRZ not being good? You should write CarSPIN fanfics. You have a great imagination :ohyeah:
And the Rabbit is my wife's car. It's a decent drive but it wouldn't at all be my first choice. My ride of choice has a better power to weight ratio than a GT3 and no pussy ass "lap time reducing drivers aids". It has far more ability than I do, but I am working to match it, instead of hiding behind technology
So, how many of those great cars have you driven exactly? And how do they compare to the BRZ? What exactly about the torque curve killed the driving experience for you?
This is the most asinine magazine racing I've ever witnessed on here...
Im sorry I didnt realize we have to have driven every car we have opinions on. We should delete all threads about cars like this which haven't come out yet. God forbid someone speculate about them
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 28, 2013, 01:25:59 PM
Im sorry I didnt realize we have to have driven every car we have opinions on. We should delete all threads about cars like this which haven't come out yet. God forbid someone speculate about them
Don't you realize how silly it is for you to be telling me what a problem the torque curve on the BRZ is?
It's one thing to say you think it'd be a deal breaker for yourself. But to call cars definitively great or not when you've got no first hand experience with them is a bit much. Everything I read says the Clio RS is a great drive, but I'm not going to rant and rave about how wonderful it is to drive. I don't have a clue. My own experiences conflict so much with magazines, I have little to no reason to put so much worth into what they say.
Quote from: MrH on June 28, 2013, 01:32:38 PM
Don't you realize how silly it is for you to be telling me what a problem the torque curve on the BRZ is?
It's one thing to say you think it'd be a deal breaker for yourself. But to call cars definitively great or not when you've got no first hand experience with them is a bit much.
Let's just shut down the entire fucking forum except for The Chat Thread.
:facepalm:
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/road-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/road-test.html)
There's something very wrong with the way that car looks. It's all very jagged and doesn't seem to flow very well.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 07:13:05 PM
There's something very wrong with the way that car looks. It's all very jagged and doesn't seem to flow very well.
You are incorrect. Car looks and sounds awesome.
It looks like they melded a Ferrari GT (599 or F12) with a GT-R. I quite like it.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 07:13:05 PM
There's something very wrong with the way that car looks. It's all very jagged and doesn't seem to flow very well.
It works in person. Looks a lot more athletic and taut
I will own one!!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 24, 2013, 08:28:41 PM
It works in person. Looks a lot more athletic and taut
I liked it in person, but every image I've seen since NAIAS has made me not like it.
It would be nice if they gave it less fins and gills and goofy shit like that.
7 speed manual is not enough speeds.
I don't like the way it looks, but I can see myself warming to it like I did the C6.
Quote from: Raza on July 24, 2013, 08:56:49 PM
7 speed manual is not enough speeds.
I don't like the way it looks, but I can see myself warming to it like I did the C6.
When the C8 comes out and it looks even worse than this. :lol:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 08:58:21 PM
When the C8 comes out and it looks even worse than this. :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 24, 2013, 08:58:21 PM
When the C8 comes out and it looks even worse than this. :lol:
:lol:
Motor Trend first test: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/convertibles/1307_2014_chevrolet_corvette_stingray_z51_first_test/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/convertibles/1307_2014_chevrolet_corvette_stingray_z51_first_test/)
w/video: 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Z51! Testing the New High Tech Vette! - Ignition Ep. 77 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NjYGtxClsM#ws)
3.9 seconds to 60 mph and 12.2 at 117.3 mph in the quarter
The more I see/read, the more I like this car.
This thing is a rocket in all 4 directions and of world class build quality too. Great stuff
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 06:38:03 PM
This thing is a rocket in all 4 directions and of world class build quality too. Great stuff
Yup, its fantastic. That sound.....
And Edmunds got 0-60 in 3.8 sec and 1/4 mile in 12.0 sec @ 117.3 mph...
Surprised to hear that the ride quality is excellent.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 26, 2013, 06:38:03 PM
This thing is a rocket in all 4 directions and of world class build quality too. Great stuff
And you can buy it or service it in Anytown USA. It was kinda funny when the local Ford dealer got a GT, which is a town with less than 4k people.
3.2 and 11.5 or it's a piece of shit.
Quote from: Raza on July 26, 2013, 11:35:00 PM
3.2 and 11.5 or it's a piece of shit.
3.2 would probably lend itself to closer to an 11.2.
Of course the c7 corvette is going to be fast, I just hope that isn't all it is.
Wow, that is an impressive machine.
The more I see of these, the better I think they look.
Rear end is still kind of bad and the steering wheel, for some strange reason, is marvelously ugly. Other than that, and to my great annoyance - I have trouble finding faults with it. I suppose I could make fun of the leaf springs though.
And don't forget the pooprod motor...
I think I like the goofy old "Headless Pilsbury Doughboy" steering wheel better than the new one.
(http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/2005-Chevrolet-Corvette-C6-dash-1024x768.jpg)
(http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/8377540569_470fa22d3b_o.jpg)
Its a steering wheel. I'm not sure how much of an opinion I can muster up about it.
Well, you also probably find this acceptable:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/1980_Cadillac_Coupe_Deville_V6_interior.jpg)
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 27, 2013, 01:00:09 AM
Well, you also probably find this acceptable:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/1980_Cadillac_Coupe_Deville_V6_interior.jpg)
To be fair, I find those awesome.
Mind you, in those cars "steering feedback" is a remote rumour that one hears about involving strange foreign cars, and effort requiring anything beyond a pinky's own weight to turn is unacceptable.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 12:52:08 AM
And don't forget the pooprod motor...
No. OHV is awesome when executed this good.
Quote from: mzziaz on July 27, 2013, 01:06:08 AM
No. OHV is awesome when executed this good.
Aaand, here we go with that argument again...
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2619/4841/6547420010_large.jpg)
This is the only steering wheel that ever actually bothered me.
If we think of an engine as a mystery box with relatively small dimensions and mass (into which fuel is the input and horsepower is the output) then I think the Corvette motor fares pretty well.
If you start talking theory and hp/L, maybe it doesn't look so good.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 27, 2013, 01:12:25 AM
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2619/4841/6547420010_large.jpg)
This is the only steering wheel that ever actually bothered me.
Every time I bring my car in for an alignment they never get the steering wheel straight! Fucking idiots!
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 27, 2013, 01:12:51 AM
If we think of an engine as a mystery box with relatively small dimensions and mass (into which fuel is the input and horsepower is the output) then I think the Corvette motor fares pretty well.
If you start talking theory and hp/L, maybe it doesn't look so good.
hp/L is next to meaningless, and theory doesn't make the wheels turn.
Correct, theory never drives design, hence engines have been getting smaller yet more powerful for quite some time.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 26, 2013, 11:38:32 PM
Of course the c7 corvette is going to be fast, I just hope that isn't all it is.
Don't you drive an EVO :wtf: :evildude:
Naw but for real the C7 is what the C5 and C6 should have been. It has some weird details but it looks better in person than in pictures. And there's not much to fault it for. Pooprod motor might not excite the "tech for tech's sake" geeks but they don't matter anyway.
I also didn't like the steering wheel in pics but it looks better in person as well.
The steering wheel is your interface with the car, and what is always in full view when driving. To me it's important that it feels and looks good, and the wheel in my new Focus is fantastic. I love the new Corvette, but I think they could have done much better with the interior. Granted, basing this on photos, and I'd have to sit in one to make final judgement.
Still doesnt do much for me... I dont know, it just feels like the design is too busy inside and outside
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 27, 2013, 12:52:29 AM
I think I like the goofy old "Headless Pilsbury Doughboy" steering wheel better than the new one.
(http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/2005-Chevrolet-Corvette-C6-dash-1024x768.jpg)
I like the 3 spoke design used in all C6 Vettes after 2005 better!
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 27, 2013, 01:12:25 AM
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2619/4841/6547420010_large.jpg)
This is the only steering wheel that ever actually bothered me.
:lol: Subaru XT! Everyone commented about that steering wheel (and the single wiper) when I had mine!
Quote from: Rockraven on July 27, 2013, 08:19:41 AM
The steering wheel is your interface with the car, and what is always in full view when driving. To me it's important that it feels and looks good, and the wheel in my new Focus is fantastic. I love the new Corvette, but I think they could have done much better with the interior. Granted, basing this on photos, and I'd have to sit in one to make final judgement.
You're not actually supposed to be looking at the steering wheel while driving, you know.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 27, 2013, 11:03:37 AM
I like the 3 spoke design used in all C6 Vettes after 2005 better!
:lol: Subaru XT! Everyone commented about that steering wheel (and the single wiper) when I had mine!
Agree, but I had the very same wheel in my Pontiac G5.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 27, 2013, 01:02:33 PM
You're not actually supposed to be looking at the steering wheel while driving, you know.
With such an abdomination, it will be hard not to.
Meh, the way the steering wheel looks doesn't matter. I'd just replace it with an aftermarket one anyways.
Yeah, can't have no airbag in muh face@!
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 01:17:34 PM
Meh, the way the steering wheel looks doesn't matter. I'd just replace it with an aftermarket one anyways.
If it doesn't matter, why replace it?
Meh, complaining about steering wheel is right up there with complaining about the lack of "soft touch" plastics or too small/few cup holders...
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 01:30:50 PM
Meh, complaining about steering wheel is right up there with complaining about the lack of "soft touch" plastics or too small/few cup holders...
So you agree it's a legitimate complaint then.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 27, 2013, 01:27:21 PM
If it doesn't matter, why replace it?
Looks don't matter because I'm not afraid of replacing it with a non airbag wheel like the rest of you pussies. :devil: :evildude:
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 01:53:09 PM
Looks don't matter because I'm not afraid of replacing it with a non airbag wheel like the rest of you pussies. :devil: :evildude:
Why would you want to do that?
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 01:30:50 PM
Meh, complaining about steering wheel is right up there with complaining about the lack of "soft touch" plastics or too small/few cup holders...
I'm glad you brought that up; I am appalled by the comparative lack of soft touch cupholders.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 27, 2013, 11:03:37 AM
:lol: Subaru XT! Everyone commented about that steering wheel (and the single wiper) when I had mine!
Yet, the weirdness of that car was much more than skin deep...
Quote from: Rockraven on July 27, 2013, 02:45:39 PM
Why would you want to do that?
Why would you tint your reverse lights red?
Quote from: MX793 on July 27, 2013, 03:15:08 PM
Why would you tint your reverse lights red?
So I can run over people in parking lots without giving them any warning.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 27, 2013, 01:08:27 PM
Agree, but I had the very same wheel in my Pontiac G5.
True! SMH!
Quote from: MX793 on July 27, 2013, 03:15:08 PM
Why would you tint your reverse lights red?
I don't want to do that.
I don't have reverse lights at all. :huh:
Quote from: Rockraven on July 27, 2013, 06:47:23 PM
I don't want to do that.
I was pointing out that the guy who replaced his airbag-equipped steering wheel with an aftermarket, bag-less wheel is the same who tinted his reverse lights red.
Quote from: MX793 on July 27, 2013, 07:23:29 PM
I was pointing out that the guy who replaced his airbag-equipped steering wheel with an aftermarket, bag-less wheel is the same who tinted his reverse lights red.
Ah.
Quote from: MX793 on July 27, 2013, 07:23:29 PM
I was pointing out that the guy who replaced his airbag-equipped steering wheel with an aftermarket, bag-less wheel is the same who tinted his reverse lights red.
Yeah, and you make it sound like those two can never be mutually exclusive. :rolleyes: :facepalm:
The amount of shit I get for two small pieces of film on my taillights and getting a different steering wheel always astounds me.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 07:49:44 PM
Yeah, and you make it sound like those two can never be mutually exclusive. :rolleyes: :facepalm:
The amount of shit I get for two small pieces of film on my taillights and getting a different steering wheel always astounds me.
You oughta see what happens if you cut your springs, and gut your muffler with a sawzall.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 27, 2013, 07:54:14 PM
You oughta see what happens if you cut your springs, and gut your muffler with a sawzall.
Yeah, but see, it's not like I made my lights red and then started to complain about how I was crashing into everyone, or that I took the airbag out and kept hitting my face on the wheel and that I'd have to spend more money on the car to fix my shitty mistakes. I fucking love my red taillights and my no-airbag wheel. Hell, even MexicoCityM3 said he really liked my wheel today on the track.
Normally I wouldn't care, since Raza likes to give me shit about it all the time anyways, but he's an asshole, so whatever. It's just irritating when people discount my opinions about something totally unrelated because I have red reverse lights. Especially when it's from (what I thought were) level headed posters, like MX793. Whatever, though. You guys can all go blow it out your respective asses.
I don't like the red reverse lights because I think it is less safe for other people; or at the very least can confuse other drivers.
I've no problems with the steering wheel.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 27, 2013, 08:04:21 PM
I don't like the red reverse lights because I think it is less safe for other people; or at the very least can confuse other drivers.
I've no problems with the steering wheel.
I've had them on for 1.5 years and have never had any problems or even close calls with them. Just be careful backing up. :huh:
Interesting though, that after 1.5 years I still get shit on for it. You would think there'd be something new to talk about here.
And my grandpa ran the same red light for thirty years. Never meant he was right.
Anyways, stop being so defensive. I'll stop giving you shit about when I find something new to give you shit about.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 07:49:44 PM
Yeah, and you make it sound like those two can never be mutually exclusive. :rolleyes: :facepalm:
The amount of shit I get for two small pieces of film on my taillights and getting a different steering wheel always astounds me.
You apparently don't understand why different vehicle lights are assigned different standardized colors. A vehicle's lights (turn signals, brake lights, tail lamps) are a means of communication. The colors are standardized so that everybody on the road is speaking the same language. When you start screwing with the colors, you are no longer speaking the same language as everybody else and other drivers are now going to misunderstand what you are trying to communicate. If a driver sees a bright, solidly-lit red lamp on the back of the vehicle, they are going to interpret that as a brake lamp, not a reverse lamp. You might as well have just painted over them, because they no longer do what they're supposed to. Tinting reverse lamps red is like tinting your headlamps red, or making your tail/brake lamps white. It's a hazard to others as much, if not more, as it is to you
As to the steering wheel, the airbag is an integral part of a vehicle's crash protection and occupant restraint system. Cars aren't designed to protect the occupant optimally without them. If this was a track car with a full 4 or 5 point harness and a cage, I can understand swapping the wheel for a bag-less. Pulling the airbag out of a vehicle without upgrading the other vehicle restraints to compensate is like removing the face shield from a helmet and then not wearing any safety glasses or goggles. That said, at least this only impacts you. If you're fine with the reduction in your own safety, then so be it.
Meh, even without the airbag, that little Miata is safer than most of the cars I've ever owned.
And Rags, I gave you shit over the steering wheel initially because I thought you swapped it for aesthetics. I didn't realize you swapped it because of ergonomic reasons until a later post. The safety gained by having a wheel that allows you better control (better reach to the wheel, wheel doesn't impede your legs) offsets the safety lost by giving up the airbag. That's a legit compromise and I won't give you shit about it. I still don't like the red reverse lamps, though.
Quote from: MX793 on July 27, 2013, 08:29:25 PM
You apparently don't understand why different vehicle lights are assigned different standardized colors. A vehicle's lights (turn signals, brake lights, tail lamps) are a means of communication. The colors are standardized so that everybody on the road is speaking the same language. When you start screwing with the colors, you are no longer speaking the same language as everybody else and other drivers are now going to misunderstand what you are trying to communicate. If a driver sees a bright, solidly-lit red lamp on the back of the vehicle, they are going to interpret that as a brake lamp, not a reverse lamp. You might as well have just painted over them, because they no longer do what they're supposed to. Tinting reverse lamps red is like tinting your headlamps red, or making your tail/brake lamps white. It's a hazard to others as much, if not more, as it is to you
As to the steering wheel, the airbag is an integral part of a vehicle's crash protection and occupant restraint system. Cars aren't designed to protect the occupant optimally without them. If this was a track car with a full 4 or 5 point harness and a cage, I can understand swapping the wheel for a bag-less. Pulling the airbag out of a vehicle without upgrading the other vehicle restraints to compensate is like removing the face shield from a helmet and then not wearing any safety glasses or goggles. That said, at least this only impacts you. If you're fine with the reduction in your own safety, then so be it.
Nice try, but you're only using your reverse lights for a fraction of the time you're driving, unless for some reason you like to drive backwards everywhere you go. Is it less safe? Yes, I'll admit that, but honestly, paying more attention and not being an idiot goes a long way with not getting into accidents.
My grandpa only ran that red light for a few seconds during his daily commute too.
Sigh......it's like a bunch of old women at a bridge game in here.
No grandmas will be driving 0-60 in under 4 seconds though ;).
No other automaker on the planet could come close to building this car at this price point.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 10:55:19 PM
No grandmas will be driving 0-60 in under 4 seconds though ;).
No other automaker on the planet could come close to building this car at this price point.
I don't know, I see a lot of old farts putting around in corvettes.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 10:55:19 PM
No grandmas will be driving 0-60 in under 4 seconds though ;).
No other automaker on the planet could come close to building this car at this price point.
Agreed! But the GM bashers WILL find something to nit pick about.....
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 27, 2013, 11:03:28 PM
I don't know, I see a lot of old tarts putting around in corvettes.
My mother's car hits 60 in 4.2 seconds. It's not out of the question.
Quote from: Raza on July 28, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
My mother's car hits 60 in 4.2 seconds. It's not out of the question.
Meant farts, and it was never in question.
90% or corvettes around here are automatic and driven by men in their late 60's to early 70's.
I looked high and low for a non Z06 corvette with a manual transmission. I'd have better luck finding a unicorn at a fish market.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 27, 2013, 10:55:19 PM
No other automaker on the planet could come close to building this car at this price point.
"Could" and "willing to" are two different things
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 28, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
Meant farts, and it was never in question.
90% or corvettes around here are automatic and driven by men in their late 60's to early 70's.
I looked high and low for a non Z06 corvette with a manual transmission. I'd have better luck finding a unicorn at a fish market.
I was agreeing with you. My 60 year old mother drives a car that would destroy 99% of the cars owned by enthusiasts on this board.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 08:08:05 PM
I've had them on for 1.5 years and have never had any problems or even close calls with them. Just be careful backing up. :huh:
Interesting though, that after 1.5 years I still get shit on for it. You would think there'd be something new to talk about here.
It's still a bad idea
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 28, 2013, 02:29:33 PM
It's still a bad idea
So is having a bike. Why do you still have yours?
I hate to sound like an old man, or god forbid....my father. I hope to god you don't ever back over someone in a parking lot because they just thought you were sitting in place with your brakes on and didn't know you were backing up. They would end up owning a lot of very nice things, I speak of your possessions of course. Gross negligence comes floating through my mind, and your insurance company would run from that situation fast.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 28, 2013, 04:50:49 PM
So is having a bike. Why do you still have yours?
Fair point I guess, but two bad ideas doesn't make them OK
And in any case me riding a bike = potential extra harm only to me; you painting your tail lights red = potential harm to someone else
I liked the way my 1st Accord looked slammed on cheap coilovers, unfortunately it rode like ass and was dangerous. So I raised it up on Konis + Neuspeeds and rectfied the situation. Just seems silly to create a potential accident for looks. In the long run it's not a big deal but it's still silly
I would recommend you disable the reverse lamps and perhaps add something in their place.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 28, 2013, 07:38:25 PM
I would recommend you disable the reverse lamps and perhaps add something in their place.
Be interesting to wire the reverse switch into the hazard switch so the hazards flash when you back up.
Might as well add an alarm, too.
Or shoot a flare gun off each time before you back up.
Or a beep-beep horn.
Quote from: Tave on July 28, 2013, 11:13:44 PM
Or a beep-beep horn.
I think one of those LED signs that he can program to say "I'M REVERSING" whenever he starts to back up.
So raza's a street racer, never imagined that. Like a modern day James Dean he is.
Quote from: Raza on July 29, 2013, 06:51:32 AM
I think one of those LED signs that he can program to say "I'M REVERSING" whenever he starts to back up.
Great idea! He can also program it to say expletives while driving normally, to really show those n00bs behind him!
Quote from: Raza on July 29, 2013, 06:51:32 AM
I think one of those LED signs that he can program to say "I'M REVERSING" whenever he starts to back up.
Maybe some auxiliary lights? Some white ones?
Quote from: thecarnut on July 27, 2013, 08:58:36 PM
Nice try, but you're only using your reverse lights for a fraction of the time you're driving, unless for some reason you like to drive backwards everywhere you go. Is it less safe? Yes, I'll admit that, but honestly, paying more attention and not being an idiot goes a long way with not getting into accidents.
You're wrong.
Quote from: 68_427 on July 24, 2013, 07:02:19 PM
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/road-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/road-test.html)
Awesome car.
The worst parts about that car(design wise, imo) are the camaro elements. Namely the rear lights.
What are the huge ducts on the quarter panels for? I figured brake cooling ducts but they look alittle overkill. Also the seats still look a bit weak, however edmunds didn't mention anything about them. Apparently the brakes are weak too. I'll give the brakes the benefit of the doubt since this is a base model(i believe).
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 30, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
What are the huge ducts on the quarter panels for? I figured brake cooling ducts but they look alittle overkill. Also the seats still look a bit weak, however edmunds didn't mention anything about them. Apparently the brakes are weak too. I'll give the brakes the benefit of the doubt since this is a base model(i believe).
The Recaros will be available around the time the Vert debuts! But I haven't read any complaints about the seats or brakes!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 30, 2013, 09:15:50 AM
The Recaros will be available around the time the Vert debuts! But I haven't read any complaints about the seats or brakes!
Watch the edmunds video, they comment that the brakes were "smoking" after the day at the track. Also at the end that was the ONLY thing they mentioned that was not up to par.
Seat complaints are more of a in general comment that was usually directed at C5's and C6's. I was just making the observation that from the video they don't look to be any more supportive(side bolsters) than those in the previous cars that received complaints.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 30, 2013, 09:45:54 AM
Watch the edmunds video, they comment that the brakes were "smoking" after the day at the track. Also at the end that was the ONLY thing they mentioned that was not up to par.
Seat complaints are more of a in general comment that was usually directed at C5's and C6's. I was just making the observation that from the video they don't look to be any more supportive(side bolsters) than those in the previous cars that received complaints.
OK! I only watched the Motor Trend video and they did have a Z51 model.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 30, 2013, 07:55:39 AM
The worst parts about that car(design wise, imo) are the camaro elements. Namely the rear lights.
I can see that. I'm not overly offended though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Motor Trend specifically stated in their article that the seats are really good. I also read complaints about the brakes.
Edmunds also said the tires were toast! Maybe the car had been whipped on all day.
Neither seat option is made by Recaro. Lear makes both the base seat and the competition seat. Competition seats will be available some time after launch.
One of the quarter panel ducts air into the diff cooler. The other one ducts air to the trans cooler. The air then exits through an extractor on each side of the tail.
It's virtually impossible for the C7 to have brake issues - sure it's much faster and generally more capable vs. the C6, but the C7 has more swept braking area and much better passive brake cooling and is stopping 10-12 feet shorter than the C6. Any issues are either ancillary (worn tires) or expected of a well-beat press mule.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 30, 2013, 02:58:37 PM
It's virtually impossible for the C7 to have brake issues - sure it's much faster and generally more capable vs. the C6, but the C7 has more swept braking area and much better passive brake cooling and is stopping 10-12 feet shorter than the C6. Any issues are either ancillary (worn tires) or expected of a well-beat press mule.
Stopping distance is more a function of tires than brakes. Both a C6 or C7 (and practically any other car on the road) have more than enough brake to lock the wheels. It's how much grip the tires can put out before they skid that determines your stopping distance.
And swept area is only one part of the brake fade equation. If Chevy compromised on the pad friction material in the interest of noise or dust reduction, the pads may be fading/glazing.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 30, 2013, 02:58:37 PM
It's virtually impossible for the C7 to have brake issues - sure it's much faster and generally more capable vs. the C6, but the C7 has more swept braking area and much better passive brake cooling and is stopping 10-12 feet shorter than the C6. Any issues are either ancillary (worn tires) or expected of a well-beat press mule.
They complained of brake fade which has nothing to do with tires.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 30, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
They complained of brake fade which has nothing to do with tires.
Actually, it does. Stickier tires = more braking force (as seen by the shorter stopping distance in the new vette) = more heat = brake fade more likely.
I'll believe brake fade when I hear of it on something other than this first batch of test mules...
Quote from: SVT666 on July 30, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
They complained of brake fade which has nothing to do with tires.
Or, if tires are very worn, as they heat up they lose grip (longer braking distances).
Quote from: GoCougs on July 30, 2013, 08:57:15 PM
Or, if tires are very worn, as they heat up they lose grip (longer braking distances).
You don't know what brake fade is do you?
Quote from: GoCougs on July 30, 2013, 08:57:15 PM
Or, if tires are very worn, as they heat up they lose grip (longer braking distances).
Brake fade means you have to push the pedal harder to get the tires to even lock up (or to trip the ABS). Worn tires with reduced grip means that the tires start to skid (or the ABS kicks in) with less brake application, which increases stopping distance.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 30, 2013, 08:54:30 PM
I'll believe brake fade when I hear of it on something other than this first batch of test mules...
The C7 Corvette is mighty impressive in handling numbers.
However I am disappointed they spent alot of the development of the drive train on fuel economy rather than performance. This is evident in the cylinder deactivation system, the heavier steel torque tube instead of the previous aluminium to deal with the vibrations in 4 cylinders. All in all this C7 is only marginally faster than the C6.
Here is something interesting I discovered from GT5 of all places. I was eager to see how much better the 7 speed transmission's ratios were spaced given the extra gear, and I was shocked to find that Polyphony had just copied the old C5 Z06/ C5 Z51 gear ratios across to the new car without bothering to change them, effectively giving the car two overdrive gears for no reason at all. Then I looked up the real gearing on the C7 to see what the gearing really should be. Then I realized that Polyphony didn't screw up at all. GM has the C7 pretty much geared up the exact same way the C5 Z06 was geared up to 4th gear. Then 5th gear is actually taller in the new car.
C7 C5 Z06
Final drive 3.42:1 3.42:1
1st Gear 2.97:1 2.97:1
2nd Gear 2.07:1 2.07:1
3rd Gear 1.43:1 1.43:1
4th Gear 1.00:1 1.00:1
5th Gear 0.71:1 0.84:1
6th Gear 0.57:1 0.56:1
7th Gear 0.48:1
GM had the chance to really tighten up the ratios for better performance, but instead they added another cruising gear for more fuel economy.
So now after 11 years, the 50K base C7 (12.2 @ 117) just barely manages to out run the 50K C5 Z06 (12.4 @116). And it's not like the competition hasn't caught up. In 2002, even the base C5 was head and shoulders faster than the standard NA hot 911 (non turbo, non GT3). Now the new 911 S is right there (12.0 @ 118)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
I know that GM is trying to concentrate on sophistication and interior quality. But honestly I feel like all those improvements become pointless if they lose sight of what made the Corvette's popular in the first place. The entire point of the Corvette, even the base model, is to be able to out perform the European competition for a fraction of the price, including straight line acceleration, and I dare say especially straight line acceleration. The Z06/ZR1 versions are beasts for sure, but the base car needs to be upgraded if it is to stay ahead of the rising competition. In today's world with full size luxury sedan's running 120mph in the 1/4 mile, I honestly expected more straight line speed out of the C7.
To be fair, $50K 11 years ago is equal to ~$65K in today's dollars. So you're getting a car that's every bit as fast as the C5 Z06 (plus I'd wager better handling) for considerably less money.
I don't think I'd be disappointed with the performance.
So why 3 overdrive gears?
The new Vette delivers massive bang for the buck for 95% of its buyers. I want to know what the souped up ZR1 or whatever will be like, that'll be a better comparison.
Quote from: 565 on August 01, 2013, 07:56:30 PM
The C7 Corvette is mighty impressive in handling numbers.
However I am disappointed they spent alot of the development of the drive train on fuel economy rather than performance. This is evident in the cylinder deactivation system, the heavier steel torque tube instead of the previous aluminium to deal with the vibrations in 4 cylinders. All in all this C7 is only marginally faster than the C6.
Here is something interesting I discovered from GT5 of all places. I was eager to see how much better the 7 speed transmission's ratios were spaced given the extra gear, and I was shocked to find that Polyphony had just copied the old C5 Z06/ C5 Z51 gear ratios across to the new car without bothering to change them, effectively giving the car two overdrive gears for no reason at all. Then I looked up the real gearing on the C7 to see what the gearing really should be. Then I realized that Polyphony didn't screw up at all. GM has the C7 pretty much geared up the exact same way the C5 Z06 was geared up to 4th gear. Then 5th gear is actually taller in the new car.
C7 C5 Z06
Final drive 3.42:1 3.42:1
1st Gear2.97:12.97:1
2nd Gear2.07:12.07:1
3rd Gear1.43:11.43:1
4th Gear1.00:11.00:1
5th Gear0.71:10.84:1
6th Gear0.57:10.56:1
7th Gear 0.48:1
GM had the chance to really tighten up the ratios for better performance, but instead they added another cruising gear for more fuel economy.
So now after 11 years, the 50K base C7 (12.2 @ 117) just barely manages to out run the 50K C5 Z06 (12.4 @116). And it's not like the competition hasn't caught up. In 2002, even the base C5 was head and shoulders faster than the standard NA hot 911 (non turbo, non GT3). Now the new 911 S is right there (12.0 @ 118)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
I know that GM is trying to concentrate on sophistication and interior quality. But honestly I feel like all those improvements become pointless if they lose sight of what made the Corvette's popular in the first place. The entire point of the Corvette, even the base model, is to be able to out perform the European competition for a fraction of the price, including straight line acceleration, and I dare say especially straight line acceleration. The Z06/ZR1 versions are beasts for sure, but the base car needs to be upgraded if it is to stay ahead of the rising competition. In today's world with full size luxury sedan's running 120mph in the 1/4 mile, I honestly expected more straight line speed out of the C7.
What are you expecting for $50K? Maybe GM has decided the base car is fast enough and now they need to give it better seats, better interiors, and better ride and handling. Personally, I'm pretty impressed...and I've never been much of a Corvette fan.
Yeah, and it's hard to even get a new 911 under $100,000. It damn well better be faster at that price!
So is the auto option going to be a dual clutch unit?
Yeah, if there is one thing the Corvette *doesn't* need, it's more performance. It's still much faster than anything else in its price range, and if you really want more, you can step up to the Z06 or ZR1.
Quote from: 565 on August 01, 2013, 07:56:30 PM
The C7 Corvette is mighty impressive in handling numbers.
However I am disappointed they spent alot of the development of the drive train on fuel economy rather than performance. This is evident in the cylinder deactivation system, the heavier steel torque tube instead of the previous aluminium to deal with the vibrations in 4 cylinders. All in all this C7 is only marginally faster than the C6.
Here is something interesting I discovered from GT5 of all places. I was eager to see how much better the 7 speed transmission's ratios were spaced given the extra gear, and I was shocked to find that Polyphony had just copied the old C5 Z06/ C5 Z51 gear ratios across to the new car without bothering to change them, effectively giving the car two overdrive gears for no reason at all. Then I looked up the real gearing on the C7 to see what the gearing really should be. Then I realized that Polyphony didn't screw up at all. GM has the C7 pretty much geared up the exact same way the C5 Z06 was geared up to 4th gear. Then 5th gear is actually taller in the new car.
C7 C5 Z06
Final drive 3.42:1 3.42:1
1st Gear 2.97:1 2.97:1
2nd Gear 2.07:1 2.07:1
3rd Gear 1.43:1 1.43:1
4th Gear 1.00:1 1.00:1
5th Gear 0.71:1 0.84:1
6th Gear 0.57:1 0.56:1
7th Gear 0.48:1
GM had the chance to really tighten up the ratios for better performance, but instead they added another cruising gear for more fuel economy.
So now after 11 years, the 50K base C7 (12.2 @ 117) just barely manages to out run the 50K C5 Z06 (12.4 @116). And it's not like the competition hasn't caught up. In 2002, even the base C5 was head and shoulders faster than the standard NA hot 911 (non turbo, non GT3). Now the new 911 S is right there (12.0 @ 118)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
I know that GM is trying to concentrate on sophistication and interior quality. But honestly I feel like all those improvements become pointless if they lose sight of what made the Corvette's popular in the first place. The entire point of the Corvette, even the base model, is to be able to out perform the European competition for a fraction of the price, including straight line acceleration, and I dare say especially straight line acceleration. The Z06/ZR1 versions are beasts for sure, but the base car needs to be upgraded if it is to stay ahead of the rising competition. In today's world with full size luxury sedan's running 120mph in the 1/4 mile, I honestly expected more straight line speed out of the C7.
I think the fuel economy stuff has more to do with cafe standards and avoiding the gas guzzler tax.
911 S isn't the "standard" 911, it's $14k more starting than the base Carrera and well into six figures by the time you configure it decently. Comparing two well equipped cars, the C2S is nearly twice the price of the C7.
Quote from: 565 on August 01, 2013, 07:56:30 PM
The C7 Corvette is mighty impressive in handling numbers.
However I am disappointed they spent alot of the development of the drive train on fuel economy rather than performance. This is evident in the cylinder deactivation system, the heavier steel torque tube instead of the previous aluminium to deal with the vibrations in 4 cylinders. All in all this C7 is only marginally faster than the C6.
Here is something interesting I discovered from GT5 of all places. I was eager to see how much better the 7 speed transmission's ratios were spaced given the extra gear, and I was shocked to find that Polyphony had just copied the old C5 Z06/ C5 Z51 gear ratios across to the new car without bothering to change them, effectively giving the car two overdrive gears for no reason at all. Then I looked up the real gearing on the C7 to see what the gearing really should be. Then I realized that Polyphony didn't screw up at all. GM has the C7 pretty much geared up the exact same way the C5 Z06 was geared up to 4th gear. Then 5th gear is actually taller in the new car.
C7 C5 Z06
Final drive 3.42:1 3.42:1
1st Gear 2.97:1 2.97:1
2nd Gear 2.07:1 2.07:1
3rd Gear 1.43:1 1.43:1
4th Gear 1.00:1 1.00:1
5th Gear 0.71:1 0.84:1
6th Gear 0.57:1 0.56:1
7th Gear 0.48:1
GM had the chance to really tighten up the ratios for better performance, but instead they added another cruising gear for more fuel economy.
So now after 11 years, the 50K base C7 (12.2 @ 117) just barely manages to out run the 50K C5 Z06 (12.4 @116). And it's not like the competition hasn't caught up. In 2002, even the base C5 was head and shoulders faster than the standard NA hot 911 (non turbo, non GT3). Now the new 911 S is right there (12.0 @ 118)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2002-chevrolet-corvete-z06-short-take-road-test-review)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
I know that GM is trying to concentrate on sophistication and interior quality. But honestly I feel like all those improvements become pointless if they lose sight of what made the Corvette's popular in the first place. The entire point of the Corvette, even the base model, is to be able to out perform the European competition for a fraction of the price, including straight line acceleration, and I dare say especially straight line acceleration. The Z06/ZR1 versions are beasts for sure, but the base car needs to be upgraded if it is to stay ahead of the rising competition. In today's world with full size luxury sedan's running 120mph in the 1/4 mile, I honestly expected more straight line speed out of the C7.
Not really. ~12.1 (C7) vs ~12.6 (C6) in the 1/4 mile is a HUGE gap in performance. The C5 Z06 was equivalent to ~$80k today. That the $54k C7 outguns it easily, and is all around a much higher quality and handling product, is phenomenal. GM didn't really spend any time on improving MPG. The Corvette games the EPA test well because it is light and tiny.
There is no full size luxury sedan that runs C7 1/4 mile times that doesn't cost ~$100k.
Quote from: SVT666 on August 01, 2013, 08:32:26 PM
What are you expecting for $50K? Maybe GM has decided the base car is fast enough and now they need to give it better seats, better interiors, and better ride and handling. Personally, I'm pretty impressed...and I've never been much of a Corvette fan.
I just read the reviews in Motor Trend, Road andTrack, Automobile and AutoWeek. Early reviews are impressive. I like them despite the Camaro rear end and video game dash.
Convertibles are projected to cost about $55k. I was kind of thinking about it as an alternative to a used XK8. So I went to the local Chevy dealer to see when they would have one in the showroom. The answer "NEVER". The salesman told me the local dealership was not a corvette dealership; only selected dealers can sell corvettes. I asked what if I bought one somewhere that could sell them and needed service. I was told I'd have to take the car to Little Rock, the closest Corvette dealer. That bit of news put that fire of desire out.
When did Chevy begin this policy.
I've never heard of that myself. But since I live in a large city maybe our Chevy dealerships don't have that issue.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 05, 2013, 01:52:17 PM
I've never heard of that myself. But since I live in a large city maybe our Chevy dealerships don't have that issue.
Never heard that either, ever. I live in a rural(ish) area and the local dealer ALWAYS got vettes, even if it was just one or two. Maybe GM is trying to re-position the vette and are doing this "exclusivity" crap.
Yeah I've never heard that. :huh:
Smaller dealers don't get as good allocations, but I don't know if any dealers around here that can't service them.
http://www.chevrolet.com/new-2014-corvette/# (http://www.chevrolet.com/new-2014-corvette/#)!/specs/specs_1
There's a note on the website what allows you to search for a participating Stingray dealer. It caught my eye a few days ago when I was drooling, but didn't think anything of it. I thought they were just trying to make it sound exclusive even if they were sold in every Chevy dealer (as had been the case in the podunk dealer where I grew up).
Guess they switched it up for pre-orders at least.
edit: Yup, looks like the only dealers authorized Stingray preorders are in Syracuse. There's a dealer in Rome and Utica, and I'm sure a few others closer, but none are authorized.
Wow, that's trying too hard IMO to elevate the brand.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 05, 2013, 03:04:03 PM
Wow, that's trying too hard IMO to elevate the brand.
Rite! Just sell it out of Caddy Dealerships if thats what GM is trynna do!
Stingray dealer? FFS.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 05, 2013, 04:03:04 PM
Rite! Just sell it out of Caddy Dealerships if thats what GM is trynna do!
I guess they are trying to shake the half unbottoned shirt and gold chain image the car evokes. :lol:
One of the attractions of the car was that you could take it to any chevy dealer when it broke. Apparently, if the salesman wasn't blowing smoke, you won't beable to do that with a 2014 model.
I'd bet the selected dealerships have to invest in a corvette boutique area on their showroom floor.
Corvettes are supposed to be the "every man's" sports car. Guess now they'll change that to "every man close to an authorized dealer" sports car.
I thought it was just for the beginning of production
Quote from: 68_427 on August 05, 2013, 04:13:39 PM
I thought it was just for the beginning of production
That's most likely the case....I hope.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 05, 2013, 02:24:29 PM
Smaller dealers don't get as good allocations, but I don't know if any dealers around here that can't service them.
Pain in the ass at my dealer. Only lift that can be used for one is my alignment rack, and only if I put blocks of wood in front of the ramp to avoid scraping the nose.
C&D and M/T road tests are in. No brake fade. In fact during brake testing the last stop was the shortest stop.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 12:40:45 PM
C&D and M/T road tests are in. No brake fade. In fact during brake testing the last stop was the shortest stop.
I haven't heard any brake complaints either...
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 06, 2013, 05:36:10 PM
I haven't heard any brake complaints either...
In the C&D test the C7 Z51 out brakes the Viper GTS and 911 from 70-0. M/T has a brief blurb about the use of more iron vs. aluminum for better heat resistance.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 07:27:02 PM
In the C&D test the C7 Z51 out brakes the Viper GTS and 911 from 70-0. M/T has a brief blurb about the use of more iron vs. aluminum for better heat resistance.
Every new series introduction and first drive I remember in CD and R&T starting with the 1968 models always had the reviewers gushing about the newest and best Corvette like a 12 year old girl babbling about the newest cover boy in Tiger Beat. The writers are always giddy, like they are having some kind of mass orgasm. Complaints and reservations are always downplayed at intro and first drives (They are more strongly addressed in later reviews).
The difference this time is previous weak areas seem to have been addressed. Time will tell if they are really fixed. I'd hope they are. Hell, I'm impressed and I don't even like Corvettes or GM.
Given the pricing and that Chevrolet only sells 20,000-25,000 a year I wonder what the profit margin (if any) is on the Corvette?
Quote from: MiataJohn on August 06, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
Every new series introduction and first drive I remember in CD and R&T starting with the 1968 models always had the reviewers gushing about the newest and best Corvette like a 12 year old girl babbling about the newest cover boy in Tiger Beat. The writers are always giddy, like they are having some kind of mass orgasm. Complaints and reservations are always downplayed at intro and first drives (They are more strongly addressed in later reviews).
The difference this time is previous weak areas seem to have been addressed. Time will tell if they are really fixed. I'd hope they are. Hell, I'm impressed and I don't even like Corvettes or GM.
Given the pricing and that Chevrolet only sells 20,000-25,000 a year I wonder what the profit margin (if any) is on the Corvette?
They are still using a pushrod motor, so I imagine that costs them like 10 dollars to make. I'm guessing the profits are pretty good.
Quote from: MiataJohn on August 06, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
Every new series introduction and first drive I remember in CD and R&T starting with the 1968 models always had the reviewers gushing about the newest and best Corvette like a 12 year old girl babbling about the newest cover boy in Tiger Beat. The writers are always giddy, like they are having some kind of mass orgasm. Complaints and reservations are always downplayed at intro and first drives (They are more strongly addressed in later reviews).
The difference this time is previous weak areas seem to have been addressed. Time will tell if they are really fixed. I'd hope they are. Hell, I'm impressed and I don't even like Corvettes or GM.
Given the pricing and that Chevrolet only sells 20,000-25,000 a year I wonder what the profit margin (if any) is on the Corvette?
The M/T article was poorly written IMO though there is a lot of info. The C&D article was much better. What I picked up on: some grumbling about the standard seats (though stated to be vastly better than those of the C6), the 7 M/T shifter was a bit clunky, there's a bit of road noise, the fact that with all electronic nannies off the car is a total bear to control, and the poser paddle shifters in the 7 M/T car (used to turn on/off auto rev matching on downshifting). Not bad compared to the C6.
My hunch is there is little if any profit on a Corvette - there seems to be a LOT of cost in the torque tube, rear transaxle, AL space frame chassis, non-metal body panels, and the suspension (composite leaf springs + forged double wishbone suspension both F&R).
Quote from: GoCougs on August 07, 2013, 08:08:50 AM
The M/T article was poorly written IMO though there is a lot of info.
That's basically what Motor Trend does, quantity over quality. Their writing is terrible.
Quote from: afty on August 07, 2013, 10:45:13 AM
That's basically what Motor Trend does, quantity over quality. Their writing is terrible.
This month M/T had a five-way comparo with the S4, 335iX, S60R, IS350 and ATS - it was absolutely AWFUL. Jumping to C&D was a HUGE breath of fresh air.
Thing is the M/T iPad app is pretty slick plus one can convert a print subscription to electronic. C&D's iPad app is sucky plus a print subscriber has to pay for the electronic subscription.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 06, 2013, 07:27:02 PM
In the C&D test the C7 Z51 out brakes the Viper GTS and 911 from 70-0. M/T has a brief blurb about the use of more iron vs. aluminum for better heat resistance.
On what planet is aluminum used for the actual braking surface? Were they talking about a 2-piece rotor?
Quote from: S204STi on August 07, 2013, 07:00:20 PM
On what planet is aluminum used for the actual braking surface? Were they talking about a 2-piece rotor?
Had something to do with the rotors; I don't have the mag in front of me so I can't exactly remember where/how...
Massive twitter war with Ralph Gillies and Scott Oldham at Edmunds over a cancelled Viper press fleet reservation. Edmunds argument is that once SRT got wind it was going up the '14 Vette (and GTR/Porsche/etc...), SRT backed out and cancelled the press vehicle.
I doubt SRT was thinking that. A while back some mag/site tried to publicly shame Ford by saying Ford wouldn't provide a Mustang after it learned it was going to be pitted against the then all-new Genesis Coupe (lol).
SRT probably got pissed about something but can't see that pitting a $100k Viper up against a $60k C7 was it. Sure, the C7 is going to be better built, handle/ride much better, and be vastly more liveable, but everyone already knows that ;).
C7 Owners Manual!
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k14corvette.pdf (http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k14corvette.pdf)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 02, 2013, 11:31:28 PM
C7 Owners Manual!
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k14corvette.pdf (http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k14corvette.pdf)
What the fuck am I supposed to do with this?
"If equipped with the Z51 package,
the racing and competitive driving
wheel alignment settings should be
set as follows:
{Caution
Using these wheel alignment
settings may cause excessive tire
wear. Only use these wheel
alignment settings for racing or
competitive driving. Excessive tire
wear is not covered under the
vehicle warranty.
Alignment should only be done by
adjusting the lower control arm cam
bolts and not by removing the
washers between the upper control
arms and frame.
FRONT (per corner)
.
Caster: +7.0 degrees
.
Camber: -2.0 degrees
.
Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
REAR (per corner)
.
Caster: 0 degrees
.
Camber: -1.7 degrees
.
Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Thrust Angle: 0 degrees"
I dig that they already have a recommended baseline alignment setting for track days.
Also interesting, to me at least: oil capacity w/filter for Z51 package: 10.3 qts. (7 qts for non-Z51).
5w30 synth blend oil, except for track days, where 15w50 synthetic is recommended.
Yeah, who puts track day wheel alignment settings and oil requirements in their owner's manuals? Corvette, that's who. Awesome.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 09:58:28 AM
Yeah, who puts track day wheel alignment settings and oil requirements in their owner's manuals? Corvette, that's who. Awesome.
:wanker:
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 11:27:22 AM
:facepalm:
Lets work on getting 5% of vette owners to drive the car properly before we start to think people will get alignments before and after a track event.
Quote from: S204STi on September 03, 2013, 09:35:16 AM
Also interesting, to me at least: oil capacity w/filter for Z51 package: 10.3 qts. (7 qts for non-Z51).
5w30 synth blend oil, except for track days, where 15w50 synthetic is recommended.
I noticed that! The XM Antenna has been moved to the Wheel well also. Here's a 90 MINUTE seminar that one of the guys from the Corvette forums gave on the new infotainment center in the C7!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k8Q1ctnDa8&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k8Q1ctnDa8&feature=player_embedded)
I'm going to buck the trend and say
I think this car looks fucking terrible.
The C6 was pretty, if not slightly cheap looking. This car doesn't look as cheap, but I really cannot stomach the styling.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 04, 2013, 06:56:01 PM
I'm going to buck the trend and say
I think this car looks fucking terrible.
The C6 was pretty, if not slightly cheap looking. This car doesn't look as cheap, but I really cannot stomach the styling.
Thats fine! Lots of guys on the Vette forums picked up '13 Vettes for the same reason! No way in hell I would buy a C6 when I could afford a C7 but to each his own!
I'm on the fence with the styling because I haven't seen it in person yet.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 04, 2013, 08:28:31 PM
I'm on the fence with the styling because I haven't seen it in person yet.
I think the C7 needed a big departure from the styling of the C6! Either way I'll own one in the next 5 years......
My hunch is the angles and vents aren't going to look as pronounced in person, esp. with different colors. The only cars I've really seen are the brilliant red and blue, which will definitely accentuate things.
The various reviews has this thing putting down absolutely monster performance numbers - definitely ahead of the 911 (though a tick slower than the PDK) - all the while being very civilized.
Looks great in person.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 03, 2013, 09:58:28 AM
Yeah, who puts track day wheel alignment settings and oil requirements in their owner's manuals? Corvette, that's who. Awesome.
All manufacturers make specialized recs. Ferrari manuals suggest which type of fire extinguisher to carry
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2013, 07:18:43 PM
All manufacturers make specialized recs. Ferrari manuals suggest which type of fire extinguisher to carry
Ferraris are fucking Ferraris. This is a $50,000 Chevy.
Ferrari is also probably trying to sell you an "official" fire extinguisher, which is just a normal one with a Ferrari logo on it. :lol:
Quote from: hotrodalex on September 06, 2013, 10:05:29 AM
Ferrari is also probably trying to sell you an "official" fire extinguisher, which is just a normal one with a Ferrari logo on it. :lol:
Or just a Fiat one painted like F
iaterrari Scuderia
As of yesterday the first round of C7s have been shipped! :rockon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-Ecu-HNd4&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-Ecu-HNd4&feature=player_embedded)
C7 vs Viper
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test.html)
C7 vs GTR
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test1.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test1.html)
C7 vs 911 S
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test2.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test2.html)
C7 vs M3
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test3.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test3.html)
Quote from: HotRodPilot on September 21, 2013, 04:10:49 PM
C7 vs Viper
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test.html)
C7 vs GTR
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test1.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test1.html)
C7 vs 911 S
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test2.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test2.html)
C7 vs M3
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test3.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/comparison-test3.html)
Man I love the C7 exhaust note! The M3 sounds good also! I cant wait till I can buy a C7.....
As a Ford guy, it pains me to say this, but the C7 is a winner. What a great car.
I haven't seen these things in person yet. I'm going to check them out once the local dealers get some.
Production Line!
2014 Chevy Corvette Stingray - Production (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTe2wnfsALo#)
Quote from: S204STi on September 03, 2013, 09:18:54 AM
"If equipped with the Z51 package,
the racing and competitive driving
wheel alignment settings should be
set as follows:
{Caution
Using these wheel alignment
settings may cause excessive tire
wear. Only use these wheel
alignment settings for racing or
competitive driving. Excessive tire
wear is not covered under the
vehicle warranty.
Alignment should only be done by
adjusting the lower control arm cam
bolts and not by removing the
washers between the upper control
arms and frame.
FRONT (per corner)
.
Caster: +7.0 degrees
.
Camber: -2.0 degrees
.
Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
REAR (per corner)
.
Caster: 0 degrees
.
Camber: -1.7 degrees
.
Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Thrust Angle: 0 degrees"
I dig that they already have a recommended baseline alignment setting for track days.
Anyone that do their own wheel alignmnets will also know how to find an alignmnet setting that works best for them... Neighbor Dave the amature track day hack isnt going to spend $$$ to align his wheels before and after each track day.
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 12:41:58 PM
Anyone that do their own wheel alignmnets will also know how to find an alignmnet setting that works best for them... Neighbor Dave the amature track day hack isnt going to spend $$$ to align his wheels before and after each track day.
This gives them a starting point from the factory...
Quote from: HotRodPilot on September 28, 2013, 12:52:20 PM
This gives them a starting point from the factory...
I can get the same info from any car forum that has a track section... big deal
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 12:41:58 PM
Anyone that do their own wheel alignmnets will also know how to find an alignmnet setting that works best for them... Neighbor Dave the amature track day hack isnt going to spend $$$ to align his wheels before and after each track day.
:huh:
It's like $80 around here for an alignment. If he has the expendable income for a Corvette and track time, he can probably handle $160 for a weekend here and there.
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 01:20:23 PM
I can get the same info from any car forum that has a track section... big deal
Do you align your car for the given track or just do what the interwebs tell you? Protip, you actually don't want perfectly equal camber settings for any given track, you set it for the most crucial corner.
Protip: Out of the thousands of shops that perform alignments, I'd trust about 3 to do an actual decent job.
I've had cars "aligned" that where worse then when I brought them in.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 28, 2013, 01:37:28 PM
Protip: Out of the thousands of shops that perform alignments, I'd trust about 3 to do an actual decent job.
I've had cars "aligned" that where worse then when I brought them in.
I'm the main alignment tech at my shop. All my cars leave looking dead sexy on that machine.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 28, 2013, 11:40:28 AM
Production Line!
2014 Chevy Corvette Stingray - Production (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTe2wnfsALo#)
Very impressive video. The workforce looks like it's getting up there in years. There are all sorts of tools and lifts and whatnot that take the backbreaking labor out of the job.
Man, the C7 looks great. I said that about the C6 but got sick of it pretty quickly. I think the C7 will continue to hold its appeal.
Quote from: Laconian on September 28, 2013, 03:04:40 PM
Very impressive video. The workforce looks like it's getting up there in years. There are all sorts of tools and lifts and whatnot that take the backbreaking labor out of the job.
Man, the C7 looks great. I said that about the C6 but got sick of it pretty quickly. I think the C7 will continue to hold its appeal.
The servo lifts and stuff have been there for years, they're just more integrated now. Being old has nothing to do with that: do the same task for 8 or 10 hours a day and you'll either get used to it or you'll go nuts, regardless of your age.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 28, 2013, 11:40:28 AM
Production Line!
2014 Chevy Corvette Stingray - Production (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTe2wnfsALo#)
Cool video! Shame about the music.
I can only imagine the price tags on those Fanuc robots and Atlas Copco lug nut drivers.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on September 28, 2013, 04:13:06 PM
I can only imagine the price tags on those Fanuc robots and Atlas Copco lug nut drivers.
Your basic one goes for about $60,000, but the end effectors can easily run into the 100K range (not including the $8000/yr maintenance contract per robot). Our single-head Copco drivers here cost about $4000/piece. I'd assume one fo those there are in the $40,000 range.
We're bringing in Fanuc to do maintenance on our robots. We can't really trust our maintenance guys to reassemble those correctly. :lol:
Quote from: Laconian on September 28, 2013, 03:04:40 PM
Man, the C7 looks great. I said that about the C6 but got sick of it pretty quickly. I think the C7 will continue to hold its appeal.
I think the C6 is still a looker and has aged better than the C5 did. Maybe it was the addition of the wide body models that kept it fresh but I still think the C6 is a looker. The C5 does nothing for me!
Quote from: S204STi on September 28, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
Do you align your car for the given track or just do what the interwebs tell you? Protip, you actually don't want perfectly equal camber settings for any given track, you set it for the most crucial corner.
Protip - you dont win anything at a track day. Changing your alignment is pointless for a track day. If your competing, you would never start with the OEM settings anyway as you would not be running OEM suspension.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 28, 2013, 06:34:14 PM
I think the C6 is still a looker and has aged better than the C5 did. Maybe it was the addition of the wide body models that kept it fresh but I still think the C6 is a looker. The C5 does nothing for me!
It has, but the big expanses of bland fiberglass still make it look like a kit car.
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 06:37:15 PM
Protip - you dont win anything at a track day. Changing your alignment is pointless for a track day. If your competing, you would never start with the OEM settings anyway as you would not be running OEM suspension.
Epic lulz
Quote from: Laconian on September 28, 2013, 06:40:39 PM
It has, but the big expanses of bland fiberglass still make it look like a kit car.
Especially the rear! LOL!!!
All Corvettes since 1968 have looked like kit cars. :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 06:37:15 PM
Protip - you dont win anything at a track day.
So that's why I can never find my drivers or manufacturer point results on the SCCA website.
You can do Solo I autocrosses.
Quote from: r0tor on September 28, 2013, 07:01:06 PM
Reality... not boy racer fapping
I get my info from far more talented sources than what you bring to the table, people who have actual track time racing wheel to wheel, and NASA certs to train other drivers. I know, not much compared with go karts. But if you want to continue being an ass, I'll ask the next one that you'll bat aside with your clearly superior knowledge: you're going to tell me that the same development team that built this car, which in stock form performs at supercar levels, has no idea how to set up the chassis for fast road/mild track driving? Could you be more silly?
Wow, for "fast roads" lets burn through $300 a corner tires for that last tenth of a percent of performance with lots of camber on a car that you already cant come close to exploiting its limits on the street with normal alignmnet settings.
Oh but its fasssssssssster yo
BTW, if the C7 is anything like the C6, -2 is pretty much the max negative camber you can get from the stock suspension... So the specs your so fond of fapping over basically reads "max out the camber, and keep the stock caster and toe". Wow, what "racer" would ever have thought to do that?!?! Just absolutely mindblowing that chassis engineers took the time to write this down. I think the whole performance community will be mindfucked over this revelation.
Quote from: S204STi on September 28, 2013, 09:00:43 PM
I get my info from far more talented sources than what you bring to the table, people who have actual track time racing wheel to wheel, and NASA certs to train other drivers. I know, not much compared with go karts. But if you want to continue being an ass, I'll ask the next one that you'll bat aside with your clearly superior knowledge: you're going to tell me that the same development team that built this car, which in stock form performs at supercar levels, has no idea how to set up the chassis for fast road/mild track driving? Could you be more silly?
Do you really think anybody doing a track day has either the time or the resources to set up their car correctly for one particular corner?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 28, 2013, 09:46:55 PM
Do you really think anybody doing a track day has either the time or the resources to set up their car correctly for one particular corner?
Why not? It's perfectly easy to talk to a few guys who've raced it, find the most crucial corner, and set up your settings for that. Just because the stock suspension isn't boy racer tite yo on coiloverz doesn't mean you can't make the most of what you've got... which is quite a bit in this case. I just find it comical that karboy has an issue with the OEM posting suggested settings for track driving, like it's such a waste of time. :rolleyes:
Quote from: S204STi on September 28, 2013, 10:10:26 PM
Why not? It's perfectly easy to talk to a few guys who've raced it, find the most crucial corner, and set up your settings for that. Just because the stock suspension isn't boy racer tite yo on coiloverz doesn't mean you can't make the most of what you've got... which is quite a bit in this case. I just find it comical that karboy has an issue with the OEM posting suggested settings for track driving, like it's such a waste of time. :rolleyes:
Oh, just set up your setting for that. Yeah.
Technically, you're right: that is the fastest way to get around the track.
But, you don't get testing time at a HPDE day. Although it could be done, I've never actually seen somebody bring in a couple speare sets of tires and the equipment to dial in their stock suspensions with, and I don't think they'd really get the time to do so anyways. You'll see guys with the white shoe polish trick, you'll even see guys with instant read thermometers jiggering their tire pressures. But in the end, track days are more about the driving experience than the best time.
Most guys doing these have little real track experience (pro racers don't do track days: hell, most amateur wheel to wheel racers don't either), and most wouldn't know when their car is properly set up for that corner or not even if they were able to do it.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 28, 2013, 10:19:30 PM
Oh, just set up your setting for that. Yeah.
Technically, you're right: that is the fastest way to get around the track.
But, you don't get testing time at a HPDE day. Although it could be done, I've never actually seen somebody bring in a couple speare sets of tires and the equipment to dial in their stock suspensions with, and I don't think they'd really get the time to do so anyways. You'll see guys with the white shoe polish trick, you'll even see guys with instant read thermometers jiggering their tire pressures. But in the end, track days are more about the driving experience than the best time.
Most guys doing these have little real track experience (pro racers don't do track days: hell, most amateur wheel to wheel racers don't either), and most wouldn't know when their car is properly set up for that corner or not even if they were able to do it.
Sure, I get that. I just find the innane mockery of the idea of adjusting the suspension at all to be puzzling...
Quote from: S204STi on September 28, 2013, 11:00:26 PM
Sure, I get that. I just find the innane mockery of the idea of adjusting the suspension at all to be puzzling...
Im mocking it because you are so excited by information that would be
A) not used by the average owner
B) could be gotten from any forum, primarily because....
C) the setting that even the clueless people would start at anyawy
D) anyone this serious about racing would be using modified arms or bushings to increase the adjustability range and then find. their perferred setting.
Quote from: r0tor on September 29, 2013, 08:45:03 AM
Im mocking it because you are so excited by information that would be
A) not used by the average owner
Manufacturer recommended tire pressure isn't used by the average owner, what's you're fucking point?
Quote from: r0tor on September 29, 2013, 08:45:03 AM
Im mocking it because you are so excited by information that would be
A) not used by the average owner
B) could be gotten from any forum, primarily because....
C) the setting that even the clueless people would start at anyawy
D) anyone this serious about racing would be using modified arms or bushings to increase the adjustability range and then find. their perferred setting.
You're butt hurt by the strangest things...
Yeah, still not getting the rage about providing suggested settings...
If you take it that it wouldn't be unusual for a guy to have a set of track day tires (and its not), havign the suspension re-aligned for track day as well would only be another $100 or so; and a guy that can afford to track a brand new Z51 can probably afford that a couple of times a year.
Quote from: S204STi on September 29, 2013, 04:06:36 PM
Yeah, still not getting the rage about providing suggested settings...
:hesaid:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 29, 2013, 05:14:00 PM
If you take it that it wouldn't be unusual for a guy to have a set of track day tires (and its not), havign the suspension re-aligned for track day as well would only be another $100 or so; and a guy that can afford to track a brand new Z51 can probably afford that a couple of times a year.
:high5:
First recorded street race?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGX1xTQfCQ&feature=player_embedded#at=143 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGX1xTQfCQ&feature=player_embedded#at=143)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 11, 2013, 12:00:26 AM
First recorded street race?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGX1xTQfCQ&feature=player_embedded#at=143 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBGX1xTQfCQ&feature=player_embedded#at=143)
Oh, of the C7. Not ever. I was expecting Model T vs. Model T.
Can the auto-rev-match be turned off? Stupid feature.
Auto rev match is toggled on and off via the faux shift paddles on the steering wheel.
I've seen two of these things. I'm not liking the back end in person at all. That black plastic shit around the tail lamps must go. The front bumper emblem is HUGE. It looks way out of place on the car. The interior is 8 million times better then any Vet before. If they would tone down the American redneck on it just a little it be a good looking car.
What is American's fascination with chrome? Are we all crow and like shiny things?
Quote from: Onslaught on October 11, 2013, 07:20:34 AM
I've seen two of these things. I'm not liking the back end in person at all. That black plastic shit around the tail lamps must go. The front bumper emblem is HUGE. It looks way out of place on the car. The interior is 8 million times better then any Vet before. If they would tone down the American redneck on it just a little it be a good looking car.
What is American's fascination with chrome? Are we all crow and like shiny things?
USA #1 :neverforget:
Quote from: Onslaught on October 11, 2013, 07:20:34 AM
I've seen two of these things. I'm not liking the back end in person at all. That black plastic shit around the tail lamps must go. The front bumper emblem is HUGE. It looks way out of place on the car. The interior is 8 million times better then any Vet before. If they would tone down the American redneck on it just a little it be a good looking car.
What is American's fascination with chrome? Are we all crow and like shiny things?
Are you some kind of Muslim???? What do you mean "tone down the American redneck"???
(http://www.sdakotabirds.com/feathers_and_folly/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/mission_accomplished.jpg)
Quote from: Onslaught on October 11, 2013, 07:20:34 AM
I've seen two of these things. I'm not liking the back end in person at all. That black plastic shit around the tail lamps must go. The front bumper emblem is HUGE. It looks way out of place on the car. The interior is 8 million times better then any Vet before. If they would tone down the American redneck on it just a little it be a good looking car.
What is American's fascination with chrome? Are we all crow and like shiny things?
GM is still doing chrome wheels?
GM: Confusing chrome with good design since forever.
Quote from: MrH on October 11, 2013, 08:55:30 AM
GM: Confusing chrome with good design since forever.
I remember when they added some metallized rings around the gauges and vents on the G6 and thought it fixed a horribly shitty interior.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on October 11, 2013, 10:26:58 AM
Afraid so.
Son of a bitch. Chrome wheels stopped being cool before they were cool.
There's a certain age bracket that will always opt for chrome wheels on a car like the corvette. It isn't for me though and never has been.
There are a few cars on which chrome/polished wheels look good. None of them are sports/performance cars.
Some people will never be satisfied.
"tone down the American redneck"
They have been rolling in ferrari esque design cues since the C6, this last one(C7) can't get much more no "american redneck" short of slapping a different badge on it.
Quote from: Lebowski on October 11, 2013, 10:56:13 AM
There's a certain age bracket that will always opt for chrome wheels on a car like the corvette. It isn't for me though and never has been.
Chrome 19" wheels were a deal breaker on a used XK8 I was considering. I didn't want the chrome or the 19." The lady selling the car had it priced at a premium because of the wheels; she loved them.
Quote from: MX793 on October 11, 2013, 10:57:43 AM
There are a few cars on which chrome/polished wheels look good. None of them are sports/performance cars.
The stock factory chromed steel wheels look kind of nice on our 97 F150. On anything resembling a sporty or otherwise nice car they just look cheap.
Quote from: MiataJohn on October 11, 2013, 04:05:23 PM
The stock factory chromed steel wheels look kind of nice on our 97 F150. On anything resembling a sporty or otherwise nice car they just look cheap.
I think that Bentleys, Rollers, Chrysler 300s, and some trucks/SUVs can pull off the chrome/polished wheels look if the size of the wheels is kept reasonable.
Chevrolet designed its all-new 2014 Corvette Stingray to take on the world's best supercars in terms of overall performance, but the 'Vette is also rivaling the competition in one other unexpected regard – waiting times.
Lamborghini and Ferrari buyers are accustomed to waiting several months to take delivery of their shiny new sports car, but Corvette customers have historically been able to visit the dealership and take home their new ride in the same day. That's no longer the case as demand for the Corvette's optional Z51 track pack has orders backed up for an entire year.
According to GM Authority, dealers are now informing customers ordering the Corvette Stingray Z51 that they will have to wait around 12 months to take delivery of their sports car. In fact, orders are being placed for the 2015 model year instead of the current 2014 model.
Those long wait times stemmed from an elevated interest in the Z51 model. Right now about 75 percent of Corvette buyers are going for the optional package, but that figures should drop significantly once enthusiasts have their fill.
Buyers of the standard Corvette won't have to wait quite as long, but there is also a backlog for that car. GM reportedly has enough orders for the regular Corvette Stingray to keep the car in short supply through the early part of 2014.
Hmm, a few dealerships around me list having Z51 equipped stingrays in stock. Might be "special order" waiting lists or something. I'm guessing corvette sales are pretty static, with a large percentage of repeat buyers being pretty standard at the release of a new model.
Lots of guys on the Vette forums have taken delivery of Z51 C7s! From what I've read Z51 models with the optional exposed Carbon Fiber roof panels have been held up for quality issues for a while!
I'm really starting to like the way these look(still not 100% sold on the back).
Really, Really wanting to buy one of these. Just don't know if it would be a very big jump over a C6 Z06 on a track, performance wise. I was counting on the C7 release to drop C6 prices down further and maybe cause me to revisit a vette purchase.
This thing(front 3/4) sure as hell LOOKS a ton better than a C6.
If you're looking for a track toy, go with the C6 Z06 for sure. Dat LS7.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 16, 2013, 05:48:14 PM
I'm really starting to like the way these look(still not 100% sold on the back).
Really, Really wanting to buy one of these. Just don't know if it would be a very big jump over a C6 Z06 on a track, performance wise. I was counting on the C7 release to drop C6 prices down further and maybe cause me to revisit a vette purchase.
This thing(front 3/4) sure as hell LOOKS a ton better than a C6.
Same here! I just can't spend that kind of money on a C7 rite now! I priced one optioned the way I want it (Z51,2LT,clear roof,Dual Mode exhaust,navi,MRC) and the monthly note would have been close to $900 a month! I've been watching C6 prices (2008s are still in the low-mid 30s depending on mileage!) and they haven't budged yet. Hopefully by spring we'll see a downturn in prices!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 16, 2013, 06:43:12 PM
Same here! I just can't spend that kind of money on a C7 rite now! I priced one optioned the way I want it (Z51,2LT,clear roof,Dual Mode exhaust,navi,MRC) and the monthly note would have been close to $900 a month! I've been watching C6 prices (2008s are still in the low-mid 30s depending on mileage!) and they haven't budged yet. Hopefully by spring we'll see a downturn in prices!
I did 1lt or 2lt, z51, comp seats. I don't need anymore than that. Might be a good used pickup in 1-2 years when some of them start to touch the mid 40's used.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 16, 2013, 04:11:18 PM
Lots of guys on the Vette forums have taken delivery of Z51 C7s! From what I've read Z51 models with the optional exposed Carbon Fiber roof panels have been held up for quality issues for a while!
Sounds about right. I have a hard time believing a one year wait - sounds like fanboy propaganda twist. The Corvette is a factory production car - any sort of delivery delay ain't gonna be because they can't make 'em fast enough.
There were Z51 supply issues w/ the C6 as well, even when I ordered mine in Dec '05.
The trick was ordering from a high allocation dealer, I assume this is the case now as well. Kerbeck Corvette in Atlantic city gets a lot of business from corvette forum ppl.
Saw my first C7 in the flesh today!!! Man it's a good looking car! It was parked one car over from a C6 and there's no comparison!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 28, 2013, 02:58:02 PM
Saw my first C7 in the flesh today!!! Man it's a good looking car! It was parked one car over from a C6 and there's no comparison!
Yeah, it is striking.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 28, 2013, 02:58:02 PM
Saw my first C7 in the flesh today!!! Man it's a good looking car! It was parked one car over from a C6 and there's no comparison!
Yup, don't think the C5 and C6 will age to well with the C7's roaming around.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 28, 2013, 04:11:53 PM
Yup, don't think the C5 and C6 will age to well with the C7's roaming around.
Agreed! IMO The C5 looked old as soon as the C6 hit the streets.
I can't find a good way to look at this car. So many jagged edges with scoops, grilles and vents galore.
It just looks disjointed.
The Viper is not nearly as good of a car, but it looks a lot better to me.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on October 28, 2013, 09:38:00 PM
I can't find a good way to look at this car. So many jagged edges with scoops, grilles and vents galore.
It just looks disjointed.
The Viper is not nearly as good of a car, but it looks a lot better to me.
Have you seen it in person? It all just works for me! To each his own...
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on October 28, 2013, 09:38:00 PM
I can't find a good way to look at this car. So many jagged edges with scoops, grilles and vents galore.
It just looks disjointed.
The Viper is not nearly as good of a car, but it looks a lot better to me.
NO
They had one on display at the local mall (it's the prize in some charity raffle). Looked darn good to me.
Autoblog gave the Corvette a retardedly good review. Specs are nuts. 0-60 in 3.8, 52K starting price.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued)
Quote from: Raza on October 31, 2013, 12:03:52 PM
Autoblog gave the Corvette a retardedly good review. Specs are nuts. 0-60 in 3.8, 52K starting price.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued)
:ohyeah:
Quote from: Raza on October 31, 2013, 12:03:52 PM
Autoblog gave the Corvette a retardedly good review. Specs are nuts. 0-60 in 3.8, 52K starting price.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/31/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review/#continued)
Interesting this one came in at 3300 lbs, the C&D review had theirs at a not so light 3400 lbs.
That straight on ass shot is the absolute worst view of the car, and sadly the one that most people will have to stare at.
Pity, alot going on back there for little to no reason.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/128/714/8/S1287148/slug/l/07-2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review-1.jpg)
I wonder how that would look painted.
Would look better I bet. Wimmer can photoshop it.
I think it would look better with less black, not all painted. Red down to the bottom of the plate and then have the lower black? :huh:
Either way, it just doesn't look "right" IMO.
Solution: Buy a black vette :huh:
That blue is tempting, but ultimately, a corvette always looks best in black.
Quote from: SVT32V on October 31, 2013, 01:43:51 PM
Interesting this one came in at 3300 lbs, the C&D review had theirs at a not so light 3400 lbs.
C&D actually weighs their test cars (and options increase the vehicle weight) while autoblog appears to just republish manufacturer's spec sheets for basic stats like horsepower and curb weight.
A black C6 at night is just downright sinister. I can only imagine how these will look.
Quote from: MX793 on October 31, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
C&D actually weighs their test cars (and options increase the vehicle weight) while autoblog appears to just republish manufacturer's spec sheets for basic stats like horsepower and curb weight.
Autoblog is pretty much an extended manufacturer press core as far as I'm concerned. I don't think they've ever driven a car they don't like. Not weighing the cars wouldn't surprise me. Their videos are shit too
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2013, 02:53:29 PM
Solution: Buy a black vette :huh:
That blue is tempting, but ultimately, a corvette always looks best in black.
I thought of that.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
A black C6 at night is just downright sinister. I can only imagine how these will look.
Autoblog is pretty much an extended manufacturer press core as far as I'm concerned. I don't think they've ever driven a car they don't like. Not weighing the cars wouldn't surprise me. Their videos are shit too
+1 the only thing I kind of like is they go in depth on a lot of the little features and odd ball things about the car that other publications don't even mention.
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2013, 02:53:29 PM
Solution: Buy a black vette :huh:
But then you have black and off-black.
Quote from: Galaxy on October 31, 2013, 03:29:06 PM
But then you have black and off-black.
The blacks match perfectly!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-general-discussion/3350149-official-black-c7-thread.html (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-general-discussion/3350149-official-black-c7-thread.html)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 31, 2013, 08:30:05 PM
The blacks match perfectly!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-general-discussion/3350149-official-black-c7-thread.html (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-general-discussion/3350149-official-black-c7-thread.html)
I would not say perfect, you can see in the first picture that it is not a perfect match, however it is closer then I expected.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 31, 2013, 02:30:00 PM
That straight on ass shot is the absolute worst view of the car, and sadly the one that most people will have to stare at.
Pity, alot going on back there for little to no reason.
They look pretty awful from any angle.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 31, 2013, 02:30:00 PM
That straight on ass shot is the absolute worst view of the car, and sadly the one that most people will have to stare at.
Pity, alot going on back there for little to no reason.
The tail lights give it an almost crosseyed look, and the creases just above them are too much like eyebrows. It turns that otherwise awesome quad pipe exhaust into a pronounced set of buck teeth.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 01, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
The tail lights give it an almost crosseyed look, and the creases just above them are too much like eyebrows. It turns that otherwise awesome quad pipe exhaust into a pronounced set of buck teeth.
They're trying to appeal to rednecks by making the rear end of the cars look like htem..
Quote from: NomisR on November 01, 2013, 11:09:57 AM
They're trying to appeal to rednecks by making the rear end of the cars look like htem..
Look like what?
Nitpickers
Quote from: Catman on November 01, 2013, 05:56:26 PM
Nitpickers
That's about the only complaint I have, so yeah: kinda nitpicky.
NICE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gzNi6MRwI#t=16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gzNi6MRwI#t=16)
This car is really growing on me. It's hard to ignore at $65k for a loaded one. There really aren't any deficiencies, and a whole lot of positives (full leather interior, tons of cool tech like a HUD, magneride, tons of power). That's better equipped than a much slower boxster at that price.
Look how stable that car is.
Was that nitrous he was hitting(left hand)?
http://youtu.be/wXw6znXPfy4 (http://youtu.be/wXw6znXPfy4)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 18, 2013, 01:22:41 PM
Was that nitrous he was hitting(left hand)?
http://youtu.be/wXw6znXPfy4 (http://youtu.be/wXw6znXPfy4)
Yes. The car has a 600 hp motor with a 100 hp shot of nitrous to bring it to 700.
Quote from: Catman on December 18, 2013, 11:45:49 AM
Look how stable that car is.
Rite! He did most of the run with one hand...
The gearing look a little weird on that Hennessey run
Quote from: MrH on December 18, 2013, 07:07:37 AM
This car is really growing on me. It's hard to ignore at $65k for a loaded one. There really aren't any deficiencies, and a whole lot of positives (full leather interior, tons of cool tech like a HUD, magneride, tons of power). That's better equipped than a much slower boxster at that price.
It's definitely down to a matter of taste/needs now. I would still go with an M3 or Cayman S over this, but it's definitely on their level or better in pretty much any category. I'm just not crazy about the styling and I'm still a little iffy on the Corvette driver image (no swipes). I'm definitely curious to see what testers think and what kind of performance can come from the auto box though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 18, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
The gearing look a little weird on that Hennessey run
It's definitely down to a matter of taste/needs now. I would still go with an M3 or Cayman S over this, but it's definitely on their level or better in pretty much any category. I'm just not crazy about the styling and I'm still a little iffy on the Corvette driver image (no swipes). I'm definitely curious to see what testers think and what kind of performance can come from the auto box though.
The programming in the Corvette is pretty decent, just as it was for the last gen CTS-V. The new 8spd coming will surely just improve upon that as well.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 18, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
The gearing look a little weird on that Hennessey run
It's definitely down to a matter of taste/needs now. I would still go with an M3 or Cayman S over this, but it's definitely on their level or better in pretty much any category. I'm just not crazy about the styling and I'm still a little iffy on the Corvette driver image (no swipes). I'm definitely curious to see what testers think and what kind of performance can come from the auto box though.
Usually the auto (starting with the C4) is faster than the manual. Also the Base body style C6 ran to a higher top speed than the GS.
GM needs to work on their exhaust systems and the firing order. They just can't compete with Ford for the noise they make.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 19, 2013, 01:45:29 AM
GM needs to work on their exhaust systems and the firing order. They just can't compete with Ford for the noise they make.
Yeah that is huge. The Europeans have great firing orders too.
The C7 LTI definitely sounds better. Higher pitch and a bit raspier:
Chevrolet Corvette C7 Starts Up & Revs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrbyKKf9mtQ#)
2011 Mustang GT stock exhaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuWEY5Tx-iI#ws)
I prefer the GM pushrod sounds as well.
The C7 is probably the best sounding Vette, in stock form, since the 3rd generation. C4s, 5s, and 6s just didn't have a very aggressive tone, nor did they have that nice, lopey idle that the Ford V8s have. They were almost too smooth sounding. C7 has more snarl to it.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 19, 2013, 01:45:29 AM
GM needs to work on their exhaust systems and the firing order. They just can't compete with Ford for the noise they make.
It's a lot more than firing order. The small block Chevy and small block Mopar both had the same firing order and exhaust port configuration yet there is a distinct difference in sound between the two.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 19, 2013, 12:23:19 PM
The C7 LTI definitely sounds better. Higher pitch and a bit raspier:
Chevrolet Corvette C7 Starts Up & Revs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrbyKKf9mtQ#)
2011 Mustang GT stock exhaust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuWEY5Tx-iI#ws)
The quality of the recordings are not equal. The other thing is, revving at a standstill is not a good indicator as to how they sound. There's something just not pleasant about the noise the Vette and the Camaro make when you're standing outside the car. Inside, the Vette and Camaro both sound great, but standing behind them, not so much. I think it pretty much comes down to their mufflers because I have heard great sounding Vettes and Camaros with aftermarket systems. But stock for stock, the Mustang trumps all.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 19, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
The quality of the recordings are not equal. The other thing is, revving at a standstill is not a good indicator as to how they sound. There's something just not pleasant about the noise the Vette and the Camaro make when you're standing outside the car. Inside, the Vette and Camaro both sound great, but standing behind them, not so much. I think it pretty much comes down to their mufflers because I have heard great sounding Vettes and Camaros with aftermarket systems. But stock for stock, the Mustang trumps all.
Yes, there's something not pleasant about them to you. They're not Ford Mustangs :lol:
Ugh, V8s. Too many cylinders, arranged poorly. They're all crap.
Quote from: MX793 on December 19, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
The C7 is probably the best sounding Vette, in stock form, since the 3rd generation. C4s, 5s, and 6s just didn't have a very aggressive tone, nor did they have that nice, lopey idle that the Ford V8s have. They were almost too smooth sounding. C7 has more snarl to it.
Agreed!!
Quote from: MrH on December 19, 2013, 02:32:52 PM
Yes, there's something not pleasant about them to you. They're not Ford Mustangs :lol:
No. I think the Vette and the Camaro sound great inside the car, but standing behind it there's like a drone or something that's not present inside the car. BMW, M-B, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Ferrari, all make amazing sounding V8s. GM lags behind everybody in the "noise" department.
Have you ever heard an Escalade at idle? It sounds fantastic.
My buddy had a metro with the 3 banger in it. Long tube header, into a 1.75 inch catless exhaust. The only thing between the violent expansion of fuel molecules and god's ears was a shorty cherry bomb muffler and a twist of the ignition key.
Most of these cars just sound like shit by comparison.
3cyl metros sound great....
http://youtu.be/7duyulacbrA (http://youtu.be/7duyulacbrA)
The BMW turbo 3 sounds fucking amazing.
I think my perception of the Geo is tainted by that pokey 17 sec 0-60.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 19, 2013, 09:30:51 PM
3cyl metros sound great....
http://youtu.be/7duyulacbrA (http://youtu.be/7duyulacbrA)
I love how 75 is almost the limit.....haha.
:lol:
:facepalm:
(http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/adam/9d3a678f40f3ed514f87f3b42d48e1a8/2014-chevy-corvette-convertible-1-ab-628.jpg)
Chevy says it's stiffer than the 12C spider
Quote from: 68_427 on December 24, 2013, 12:26:22 PM
(http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/adam/9d3a678f40f3ed514f87f3b42d48e1a8/2014-chevy-corvette-convertible-1-ab-628.jpg)
Chevy says it's stiffer than the 12C spider
Yeah, I'm not sure how they did that, based on seeing how the 12C spider is made. I've seen the unibody of the coupe, but I'd be interested in seeing the convertible too.
I like this better than the coupe. Always been a convertible fan.
Looks better than the hatch. I hope they do a notchback like for the C5 Z06.
Just saw one at the track last week. The side profile had me believing it was a Ferrari for a moment. I didn't see what time he ran/
I like that vert a lot.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 25, 2013, 05:51:50 AM
Looks better than the hatch. I hope they do a notchback like for the C5 Z06.
Notchback is ugly and gives up cargo space vs the hatch, terrible idea. Won't happen.
Different strokes.
Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk
New Corvette has performance cam...one of the more misleading headlines.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/05/autos/corvette-stingray-dash-cam/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/05/autos/corvette-stingray-dash-cam/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)
That's actually pretty cool.
It would come in handy for questionable moving violations also! Sign me up.....
The Z06 debut will be shown here on the 13th.
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar-reveal.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar-reveal.html)
Very curious about the Z06, should be a beast
Rumored to be s/c though. Not a fan - I am disappoint. A 550-575 hp N/A V8 would be awesome.
Weird that they are going S/C... I thought the LT-1 would have a higher HP/L capability. Kind of renders the ZR-1 redundant too (though TBH I never liked the C6 ZR-1 in the first place)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 06, 2014, 05:38:26 PM
The Z06 debut will be shown here on the 13th.
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar-reveal.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-z06-supercar-reveal.html)
The trim I've been waiting for, can't wait to see the prices and specs on this one.
I can't wait to see it in Detroit.
Looks like the Z06 will have 620 hp and 650 lb-ft of torque:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/07/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-620-hp-650-lb-ft/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/07/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-620-hp-650-lb-ft/)
If I was getting the Vette, I would just get the Z51 because the performance limits are super illegal already.
Quote from: afty on January 07, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
Looks like the Z06 will have 620 hp and 650 lb-ft of torque:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/07/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-620-hp-650-lb-ft/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/07/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-620-hp-650-lb-ft/)
Is the ZR1 going to have 700 hp?
I always liked the Z06 more than the ZR1 because it was naturally aspirated and lighter with performance levels very nearly on par with the ZR1, but now the Z06 is basically the ZR1 now.
Nearly on par? Na, the ZR1 is way above the Z06 in performance (and drivabilty).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2014, 11:02:40 AM
Nearly on par? Na, the ZR1 is way above the Z06 in performance (and drivabilty).
It's close enough that on anything but a racetrack, the Z06 would easily keep up to a ZR1.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2014, 10:43:00 AM
If I was getting the Vette, I would just get the Z51 because the performance limits are super illegal already.
Same here. Plus you keep your removable roof....
Wish they would have just given vvt and di to the LS7
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2014, 05:55:13 AM
Weird that they are going S/C... I thought the LT-1 would have a higher HP/L capability. Kind of renders the ZR-1 redundant too (though TBH I never liked the C6 ZR-1 in the first place)
I'm thinking that without significant changes to the valvetrain (3+ valve heads, independent intake and exhaust phasing, variable valve lift...), the specific output of the SBC is probably about as good as it's going to get while still maintaining streetable powerband characteristics (and meeting emissions, running on pump gas, etc).
I'll be curious to see price.
I also kinda wonder what leaves for a C7 ZR1 or will there be one?
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2014, 11:10:01 AM
It's close enough that on anything but a racetrack, the Z06 would easily keep up to a ZR1.
Sure, both are hugely capable, but no, not really, the ZR1 is at least one step (maybe two) beyond the Z06 even on the street.
Quote from: MX793 on January 07, 2014, 04:35:17 PM
I'm thinking that without significant changes to the valvetrain (3+ valve heads, independent intake and exhaust phasing, variable valve lift...), the specific output of the SBC is probably about as good as it's going to get while still maintaining streetable powerband characteristics (and meeting emissions, running on pump gas, etc).
Since the dawn of the high-po factory fuel injected Chevy small block it's gone from the 245 hp L98 in '85 to the 460 hp LT-1 of today without any of those significant changes. It's all simply been a matter of bigger valves, bigger cam, higher compression ratio, more RPM, wee bit more displacement, and fine tuning. By this measure, and the fact that the LS7 hasn't been touched in 9 years, there's surely some room to grow - 10-15% should be relatively easy. However, my hunch is that now that the ZL1, CTS-V, Z06 and ZR1 are all in play it's simply more cost effective to have variants of the same engine power them all, rather than two disparate engines.
The (LS3) C6 and C7 guys have been going at it for months over at the Vette Forums! They finally met up to see wich car was faster! Both are stock Automatics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjxVpVvOqg&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjxVpVvOqg&feature=player_embedded)
Another view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8fQtOUGfU&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8fQtOUGfU&feature=player_embedded)
The C6 got a huge jump and still lost huge...
Yeah the C7 just walked that thing.
That C7 had about the worst start in history and killed the C6. Damn!
I saw a C7 on the highway yesterday. Looks pretty awesome in person.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 07, 2014, 08:55:31 PM
The (LS3) C6 and C7 guys have been going at it for months over at the Vette Forums! They finally met up to see wich car was faster! Both are stock Automatics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjxVpVvOqg&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjxVpVvOqg&feature=player_embedded)
Another view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8fQtOUGfU&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8fQtOUGfU&feature=player_embedded)
Is that Supertramp playing in the background?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2014, 06:52:59 PM
Since the dawn of the high-po factory fuel injected Chevy small block it's gone from the 245 hp L98 in '85 to the 460 hp LT-1 of today without any of those significant changes. It's all simply been a matter of bigger valves, bigger cam, higher compression ratio, more RPM, wee bit more displacement, and fine tuning. By this measure, and the fact that the LS7 hasn't been touched in 9 years, there's surely some room to grow - 10-15% should be relatively easy. However, my hunch is that now that the ZL1, CTS-V, Z06 and ZR1 are all in play it's simply more cost effective to have variants of the same engine power them all, rather than two disparate engines.
There's been some pretty significant technological changes between the Gen I L98 and the current Gen V LT-1. And the specific output gains have been tapering off with each new iteration of the motor. The GenV motor adds direct injection (which in turn allows for a higher compression ratio) plus VVT (two very significant changes) for 74 hp/L, the best output yet for a production SBC (LS6 and LS7 were 71 and 72, respectively). Is there still more there? Sure. I just don't see huge gains (80+ hp/L) in the near future without either compromising the driveability or going to a more sophisticated valvetrain.
Quote from: MX793 on January 08, 2014, 03:11:25 PM
There's been some pretty significant technological changes between the Gen I L98 and the current Gen V LT-1. And the specific output gains have been tapering off with each new iteration of the motor. The GenV motor adds direct injection (which in turn allows for a higher compression ratio) plus VVT (two very significant changes) for 74 hp/L, the best output yet for a production SBC (LS6 and LS7 were 71 and 72, respectively). Is there still more there? Sure. I just don't see huge gains (80+ hp/L) in the near future without either compromising the driveability or going to a more sophisticated valvetrain.
With each iteration it's mostly all been pick-n-shovel incremental work - from the L98 to LT1 it's been the basics of fuel injection, pushrods and 2 valves/cyl. IMO Direct injection and Kmart pushrod VVT are iterations, not significant nor breakthroughs (if they were the combo would be worth a lot more than ~25 hp/~5% over the LS3).
But there's plenty more to go; just a short list off the top of my head (and pretty much all incremental):
More RPM (7,000 RPM proven with the LS7 9 years ago)
More displacement (7.0L proven with the LS7)
Improved combustion/higher CR (continued improvements in modeling/design)
Elec. accessories esp. power hogs that are water and oil pumps (others do this)
Roller rocker arms (others do this and hot rodders have been doing it for years and years)
That Chevy didn't go more than 455/460 hp was more a matter of the market probably - the C7 is notably quicker than the C6 and keeps pace with the 991.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2014, 11:57:41 PM
With each iteration it's mostly all been pick-n-shovel incremental work - from the L98 to LT1 it's been the basics of fuel injection, pushrods and 2 valves/cyl. IMO Direct injection and Kmart pushrod VVT are iterations, not significant nor breakthroughs (if they were the combo would be worth a lot more than ~25 hp/~5% over the LS3).
But there's plenty more to go; just a short list off the top of my head (and pretty much all incremental):
More RPM (7,000 RPM proven with the LS7 9 years ago)
More displacement (7.0L proven with the LS7)
Improved combustion/higher CR (continued improvements in modeling/design)
Elec. accessories esp. power hogs that are water and oil pumps (others do this)
Roller rocker arms (others do this and hot rodders have been doing it for years and years)
That Chevy didn't go more than 455/460 hp was more a matter of the market probably - the C7 is notably quicker than the C6 and keeps pace with the 991.
I didn't say the SBC was tapped for power, I said that specific output is not going to see huge gains.
More RPM is useless if you can't breath at that RPM.
More displacement gets more power, but does nothing for specific output
The compression ratio is already at 11.5:1 (a CR that is impossible on pump gas unless you have DI, hence the significance of DI). There's only so high you can go before you can't run pump gas anymore.
Quote from: MX793 on January 09, 2014, 04:26:58 AM
I didn't say the SBC was tapped for power, I said that specific output is not going to see huge gains.
More RPM is useless if you can't breath at that RPM.
More displacement gets more power, but does nothing for specific output
The compression ratio is already at 11.5:1 (a CR that is impossible on pump gas unless you have DI, hence the significance of DI). There's only so high you can go before you can't run pump gas anymore.
Chevy has proven that it can do a (breathing, streetable) 7,000 RPM pushrod and that was 9 years ago, and there are cars today have a CR notably higher than 11.5:1.
The LS7 revved to 7k, but did not make peak power at that rpm. Peak was hundreds of rpm below that. Peak in the new motor occurs only 300 rpm shy of the LS7's peak.
With DI, higher CRs are still possible, but I still don't see this motor going above 80 HP/l in streetable form without the previously mentioned valve train tech.
Really starting to like the new C7, even in "lowly" base trim.
I hope I don't do anything foolish.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 09, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Really starting to like the new C7, even in "lowly" base trim.
I hope I don't do anything foolish.
I hope you do.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2014, 10:33:16 AM
I hope you do.
Probably will, I'm not a very responsible person.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 09, 2014, 11:15:02 AM
Probably will, I'm not a very responsible person.
Already thought about what trim and options? If you have suspension questions about it, I can help you out.
Quote from: MrH on January 09, 2014, 12:10:00 PM
Already thought about what trim and options? If you have suspension questions about it, I can help you out.
2lt Z51
7 speed
competition seats
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 09, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
2lt Z51
7 speed
competition seats
:ohyeah: That's probably what I'd go for too.
Quote from: MX793 on January 09, 2014, 08:22:20 AM
The LS7 revved to 7k, but did not make peak power at that rpm. Peak was hundreds of rpm below that. Peak in the new motor occurs only 300 rpm shy of the LS7's peak.
With DI, higher CRs are still possible, but I still don't see this motor going above 80 HP/l in streetable form without the previously mentioned valve train tech.
The key is being able to spin 7,000 rpm in a streetable pushrod motor. VE% has its limits (and today's hi-po N/A motors are approaching it) so at some point the only answer is more RPM.
Hot rodders for years have been getting an additional streetable smog legal ~50-75 hp over stock on each iteration of the GM small block (and new Hemi and Viper V10 too) simply with mild cam and mild head work (which drives the HP improvement with each engine iteration by the factory).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2014, 04:59:18 PM
The key is being able to spin 7,000 rpm in a streetable pushrod motor. VE% has its limits (and today's hi-po N/A motors are approaching it) so at some point the only answer is more RPM.
Again, higher RPM is worthless if you can't breath at that RPM. The LS7 could spin to 7100 RPM without self destructing, but its peak power was down at 6300 RPM. Above that peak power RPM, its ability to breath, aka its volumetric efficiency, fell off and with it, the engine's power output. If Chevy had set the rev limiter to 6500 RPM in that motor, it would still be making the same power. It gains no additional power by being able to rev beyond its peak power RPM. If GM raised the redline of the LT-1 to 7000 RPM (which I'm sure it could safely rev to anyway), it's not going to make any more power than it does now, given that its power peak is at 6000 RPM. It's VE falls off too much beyond that point for the power to continue to climb. Of course, a cam with more lift, more duration, more intake/exhaust overlap will bring high RPM VE up and get you power for those extra revs, but that will come at the expense of performance at lower RPMs.
Quote from: MX793 on January 09, 2014, 05:45:44 PM
Again, higher RPM is worthless if you can't breath at that RPM. The LS7 could spin to 7100 RPM without self destructing, but its peak power was down at 6300 RPM. Above that peak power RPM, its ability to breath, aka its volumetric efficiency, fell off and with it, the engine's power output. If Chevy had set the rev limiter to 6500 RPM in that motor, it would still be making the same power. It gains no additional power by being able to rev beyond its peak power RPM. If GM raised the redline of the LT-1 to 7000 RPM (which I'm sure it could safely rev to anyway), it's not going to make any more power than it does now, given that its power peak is at 6000 RPM. It's VE falls off too much beyond that point for the power to continue to climb. Of course, a cam with more lift, more duration, more intake/exhaust overlap will bring high RPM VE up and get you power for those extra revs, but that will come at the expense of performance at lower RPMs.
Breathing is easy, it's designing for reliable operation at higher RPM that is more work for a pushrod engine, which was/is my point.
Not necessarily on the last statement. The LS3 has WAY more cam lift and duration than the old L98 yet cleans its clock throughout the power and torque curves.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 09, 2014, 08:40:16 AM
Really starting to like the new C7, even in "lowly" base trim.
I hope I don't do anything foolish.
Go for it! I wish I could pull the trigger rite now........
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 09, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
2lt Z51
7 speed
competition seats
I'd rather have the NPP Exhaust than the Comp Seats as I would rarely track my car.
I just priced one out. $64,000. 2lt Z51, 7-speed, competition seats, black wheels, stripes, and navigation. That's a ton of money, but you get a lot of car. I'd get the seats over the performance exhaust. I'd probably do an aftermarket exhaust at some point anyways.
For all that, that is not a ton of money
This is how I'd order mine.
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-stingray/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=44117#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@ (http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-stingray/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=44117#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@)
Same
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
Breathing is easy, it's designing for reliable operation at higher RPM that is more work for a pushrod engine, which was/is my point.
Not necessarily on the last statement. The LS3 has WAY more cam lift and duration than the old L98 yet cleans its clock throughout the power and torque curves.
If breathing is easy, then why do 2-valve motors still lag behind most multi valves in specific output? Even those that make peak power at OHC-like RPMs like the LS7 are still well off the mark.
The differences between the L98 and LS3 go way beyond the cam profile. Throw an LS3 cam in an L98 and you're not going to get anything remotely close to an LS3 power curve.
Here's my build
http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-stingray/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=44117#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@ (http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette-stingray/build-your-own.html?x-zipcode=44117#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@)
Frankly, for the money, you can't beat it. In the next few months I was looking at spending 15K(ish) on upgrades to the Evo and Z. Upgrades that are specifically oriented to track usage.
It really is never ending. Lately I have less and less time to work on cars. It's taking away from seat time(on track or just on the street). As odd as it sounds, buying the car shown above would SIMPLIFY things greatly for me. I'd sell the Z and either leave the EVO be or maybe sell that too.
For a track car I don't think you could find anything better for the money that still is a fantastic street car that looks awesome.
Yeah, after taking the Miata on track recently, I'd have liked the piece of mind of a newer car. A lot of people will say that a dedicated track car will be faster, blah blah blah. But they are usually old ratty POSs that you need a trailer/hauler to get it to the track. The fun for me is just getting out there and not having to worry about the car, just enjoy the drive. That's something I think the Z51 offers in spades with the oil/diff cooler, great brakes, LSD, and warranty.
Unfortunately I make about 70,000 less per year than I should to be able to afford one of these hotrods.
Quote from: MX793 on January 10, 2014, 04:59:33 AM
If breathing is easy, then why do 2-valve motors still lag behind most multi valves in specific output? Even those that make peak power at OHC-like RPMs like the LS7 are still well off the mark.
The differences between the L98 and LS3 go way beyond the cam profile. Throw an LS3 cam in an L98 and you're not going to get anything remotely close to an LS3 power curve.
Specific power doesn't count, total power does, and GM is keeping the p00prod dream alive by keeping pace with other V8s in their respective classes.
Give the L98 the compression ratio, heads and ECU/FI system, and yeah, you'll have about LS3 power/torque curve; IOW, cam lift/duration by itself doesn't mean a whole lot.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 10, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
Specific power doesn't count, total power does, and GM is keeping the p00prod dream alive by keeping pace with other V8s in their respective classes.
Give the L98 the compression ratio, heads and ECU/FI system, and yeah, you'll have about LS3 power/torque curve; IOW, cam lift/duration by itself doesn't mean a whole lot.
Sporty's comment was about specific output. My original response to his comment was on the topic of specific output. Welcome to the conversation at hand. The relevance of specific output is a separate topic.
Cam profile is one of several major contributors to power curve characteristics. If you're going to make a comparison about the affects of different cam profiles, as you tried to do with the LS3 and L98, you should select motors that are essentially the same except for the cam profile.
Quote from: MX793 on January 10, 2014, 10:08:41 AM
Sporty's comment was about specific output. My original response to his comment was on the topic of specific output. Welcome to the conversation at hand. The relevance of specific output is a separate topic.
Cam profile is one of several major contributors to power curve characteristics. If you're going to make a comparison about the affects of different cam profiles, as you tried to do with the LS3 and L98, you should select motors that are essentially the same except for the cam profile.
Specific output = total output when displacement is constant, as it was between the LS3 and LT1, right? There's plenty of room for increases in output; specific or otherwise; in the Chevy V8 with its current configuration (i.e., pushrod, 2-valves). Chevy has been doing so for decades and though in theory improvements can't be infinite Chevy has a long way to go before hitting maximum.
You addressed cam profile in a vacuum, and so did I. Generally, more lift and duration increases powerband RPM but that doesn't necessarily mean that low end power is sacrificed, if the engine makes a whole lot more power (as is the case of the L98 vs. LS3 - the former has lower peak power/torque RPM but the the LS3 is going to have equal or more power throughout the lower RPMs, and obviously hugely more at higher RPMs).
When did pooprod stop being the forum Easter egg?
BTW, autocorrect wants to turn pooprod into "polo prod."
Never mind, I guess it didn't.
Who gives a shit.
Fuck all of you.
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19c7vnb3hcfbajpg/ku-xlarge.jpg)
The biggest thing I dislike about the stingray is the lack of a fixed roof option. Oddly, it's a big deal to me. Even weirder if that was one of the "big" reasons to buy a z06.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 11, 2014, 11:09:58 AM
The biggest thing I dislike about the stingray is the lack of a fixed roof option. Oddly, it's a big deal to me. Even weirder if that was one of the "big" reasons to buy a z06.
You should see the debate about this on the Vette forums...
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 11, 2014, 04:29:49 PM
You should see the debate about this on the Vette forums...
I don't know what the debate is, but to me it's pretty cut and dried. A fixed roof is going to be stiffer. I'm buying a race car, not something to drive to the bar and take the focus off my receding hairline and erectile dysfunction.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 11, 2014, 08:30:09 PM
I don't know what the debate is, but to me it's pretty cut and dried. A fixed roof is going to be stiffer. I'm buying a race car, not something to drive to the bar and take the focus off my receding hairline and erectile dysfunction.
The Z06 guys say the same thing. But the base/GS guys like the option of having an open roof.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 11, 2014, 10:20:14 PM
The Z06 guys say the same thing. But the base/GS guys like the option of having an open roof.
To be fair I've never seen the point of a targa 911 either. A car should be fixed roof(sunroof option) with a convertible option. A removable roof section(or t tops) just takes a perfectly good rigid roof and turns it into a noodle. While offering NONE of the open motoring experience of a convertible.
Convertible 911s are so ugly, though. :P
I don't think the 991 convertible looks bad.
I would imagine the removable roof vette is still more rigid than the vert. It also has quite a bit more cargo space than the vert.
2015 Z06
- 8L90E 8-Speed Automatic available! Only 620+ hp car so equipped
- Steel torque tube replaced with woven c/f
- 60% more rigid chassis, with roof on, than C6 Z06
- 2.2" wider front track
- 3" wider rear track
- Wheel and tire sizes from C6 ZR1
- 3 levels, with varying degrees of aero downforce, with the Z07 version having more d/f than any production car GM's tested in their wind tunnel
- Compact 1.7L supercharger capable of 20,000 rpm and 9.5 psi of boost
- Pre-production versions set lap records @ Milford, beating ZR1 lap times
Quote from: Lebowski on January 12, 2014, 08:42:28 AM
I don't think the 991 convertible looks bad.
I would imagine the removable roof vette is still more rigid than the vert. It also has quite a bit more cargo space than the vert.
It's the best looking of all the 911 convertibles, but it still looks like a bumble bee's ass.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 12, 2014, 12:05:05 PM
2015 Z06
- 8L90E 8-Speed Automatic available! Only 620+ hp car so equipped
- Steel torque tube replaced with woven c/f
- 60% more rigid chassis, with roof on, than C6 Z06
- 2.2" wider front track
- 3" wider rear track
- Wheel and tire sizes from C6 ZR1
- 3 levels, with varying degrees of aero downforce, with the Z07 version having more d/f than any production car GM's tested in their wind tunnel
- Compact 1.7L supercharger capable of 20,000 rpm and 9.5 psi of boost
- Pre-production versions set lap records @ Milford, beating ZR1 lap times
Woah Where did you get those stats? Just curious, I haven't been following it these last few days. I'd be shocked if this thing actually comes out with auto-only. DSG I could see, but not a conventional torque converter auto.
He said available.
Oh. I'm an idiot. Never mind.
Sneak Peek...
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/11/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-images-leak/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588 (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/11/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-images-leak/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2014, 09:13:44 PM
Sneak Peek...
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/11/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-images-leak/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588 (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/11/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-images-leak/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000588)
I didn't see any of the specs you mentioned(other than HP) in that link.
"- 60% more rigid chassis, with roof on, than C6 Z06"
This reads as if the C7 Z06 will have a removable roof. I really really hope that isn't the case, GM should know better.
It will.
Sick!
(http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/16d834ffcc9460ac343b31acacbfe67b/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-detroit.jpg)
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/13/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-detroit-2014/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/13/2015-chevy-corvette-z06-detroit-2014/)
Nice! I'm guessing 90k as a base price...
Is that a black hood or does it have the cheeseball window like the c6 zr1?
No windows just a big vent
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 13, 2014, 10:03:11 AM
as an option? is a fixed roof standard?
Given the way that the Corvette is constructed, even if it is a fixed roof, it's not going to add any appreciable stiffness. The roof isn't a stressed structural member. It'll be like the "fixed roof" on the Exige, which was just a relatively flimsy plastic/GRP panel bolted where the normal targa top would be. Making it fixed just means you lose the open-air aspect of the car (not to mention that taking the roof off completely sheds some weight). As memory serves, the fixed roof on the old Z06 notchback didn't have any real structure in it either. The non-liftback rear window was lighter than the liftback on the normal coupe, which was really the only reason they used that body style.
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Given the way that the Corvette is constructed, even if it is a fixed roof, it's not going to add any appreciable stiffness. The roof isn't a stressed structural member. It'll be like the "fixed roof" on the Exige, which was just a relatively flimsy plastic/GRP panel bolted where the normal targa top would be. Making it fixed just means you lose the open-air aspect of the car (not to mention that taking the roof off completely sheds some weight). As memory serves, the fixed roof on the old Z06 notchback didn't have any real structure in it either. The non-liftback rear window was lighter than the liftback on the normal coupe, which was really the only reason they used that body style.
The other issue I don't like is that removable roof's are sometimes required to be removed for track use.
I'd really just rather not have the hassles.
I read the press release and I remember something about the roof being fixed
Quote from: Catman on January 13, 2014, 03:16:12 PM
I read the press release and I remember something about the roof being fixed
It's removable. And the C7 Z06 is 20% stiffer than a C6 ZR1 with its roof removed and 60% stiffer with the roof in place....
Should be fine
Removable roof on the z06 is a plus IMO. Not that I regularly take mine off, but it's nice to have the option.
A really impressive vehicle this Corvette. The Viper people must be really depressed.
The new viper looks old.
Quote from: Galaxy on January 14, 2014, 12:23:21 PM
A really impressive vehicle this Corvette. The Viper people must be really depressed.
Dodge tries too much to make the Viper NOT like a Corvette, despite it being a Dodge Corvette, compromising it in the process. No one wants a car purposefully designed to be less refined.
All things considered, I have no doubt the Corvette is a better car than the Viper. I still want a Viper so fucking badly, though
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2014, 06:51:47 PM
Dodge tries too much to make the Viper NOT like a Corvette, despite it being a Dodge Corvette, compromising it in the process. No one wants a car purposefully designed to be less refined.
So all sports cars should be as quiet and smooth as a Lexus LSleep.
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
Given the way that the Corvette is constructed, even if it is a fixed roof, it's not going to add any appreciable stiffness. The roof isn't a stressed structural member. It'll be like the "fixed roof" on the Exige, which was just a relatively flimsy plastic/GRP panel bolted where the normal targa top would be. Making it fixed just means you lose the open-air aspect of the car (not to mention that taking the roof off completely sheds some weight). As memory serves, the fixed roof on the old Z06 notchback didn't have any real structure in it either. The non-liftback rear window was lighter than the liftback on the normal coupe, which was really the only reason they used that body style.
The notch back FRC body style was indeed stiffer than the coupe even with the roof on.
http://www.c5registry.com/zo6/hib/page2.htm (http://www.c5registry.com/zo6/hib/page2.htm)
"Rocket scientists out there will be interested to know the convertible's first torsional frequency is 20hz. Coupes with the roof out are at 20.5hz and, with the roof on, jump to 22hz. The Z06 is a stout, 24hz."
So the coupe even with the roof off was slightly stiffer than the vert. Adding the roof made the coupe stiffer byt 1.5hz. Going with the notch back made it stiffer still by 2hz.
Quote from: 565 on January 14, 2014, 07:52:12 PM
The notch back FRC body style was indeed stiffer than the coupe even with the roof on.
http://www.c5registry.com/zo6/hib/page2.htm (http://www.c5registry.com/zo6/hib/page2.htm)
"Rocket scientists out there will be interested to know the convertible's first torsional frequency is 20hz. Coupes with the roof out are at 20.5hz and, with the roof on, jump to 22hz. The Z06 is a stout, 24hz."
So the coupe even with the roof off was slightly stiffer than the vert. Adding the roof made the coupe stiffer byt 1.5hz. Going with the notch back made it stiffer still by 2hz.
Didn't Chevy put some additional stiffening into the lower part of the chassis on the Z06 that the coupes didn't have? I don't believe the notchback design alone was that much stiffer.
Quote from: MX793 on January 14, 2014, 07:59:36 PM
Didn't Chevy put some additional stiffening into the lower part of the chassis on the Z06 that the coupes didn't have? I don't believe the notchback design alone was that much stiffer.
The notchback had the same extra cross bar behind the seats as the convertibles. However as the notchback was 20% stiffer than the vert, the addition of a top clearly contributed alot to the stiffness. In addition the coupe was slightly stiffer than the convertible even with the coupe's roof off, so the cross bar in the back didn't make drastic additions to stiffness.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/2326760-chassis-rigidity-coupe-vs-vert-vs-frc.html (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/2326760-chassis-rigidity-coupe-vs-vert-vs-frc.html)
"The Hardtop's underbody structure is the stiffest of all C5s. It has both the Coupe's "top bow" and the extra crossbar behind the seats, characteristic of the Convertible. Its exterior bodywork behind the windshield and above the belt line is bolted to the windshield header and is bolted and adhesively bonded to the rear deck. The underbody structure, the hard top and the lack of the big hole in the back for the hatch make the Hardtop about 12% stiffer in torsion and bending than the Coupe with its roof in place. Additionally, though the removal of the coupe's heavy hatch glass and lighter top structure, the Hardtop's curb weight is 80 pounds less than the lightest Coupe"
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2014, 06:51:47 PM
Dodge tries too much to make the Viper NOT like a Corvette, despite it being a Dodge Corvette, compromising it in the process. No one wants a car purposefully designed to be less refined.
While their numbers are clearly fewer, that is precisely what the diehards want.
No ZR1 is in the plans rite now. :huh: with the Z06 making over 600 HP I really don't see a need for it.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/corvette-lead-engineer-confirms-zr1-not-under-development/?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1458_40144048 (http://blog.caranddriver.com/corvette-lead-engineer-confirms-zr1-not-under-development/?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1458_40144048)
It just sucks that the base model is dropping to 220 hp. That is not enough power for this class of car. I mean, why even bother with slapper bars for the leaf springs?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2014, 06:51:47 PM
Dodge tries too much to make the Viper NOT like a Corvette, despite it being a Dodge Corvette, compromising it in the process. No one wants a car purposefully designed to be less refined.
Some people clearly do.
Quote from: ifcar on January 15, 2014, 07:16:00 AM
While their numbers are clearly fewer, that is precisely what the diehards want.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 17, 2014, 06:44:33 AM
Some people clearly do.
They are not people. They are Viper buyers, that curious subset of
homo sapiens that buys the inferior car precisely because it is purposefully inferior.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 17, 2014, 11:09:43 AM
They are not people. They are Viper buyers, that curious subset of homo sapiens that buys the inferior car precisely because it is purposefully inferior.
:lol:
The viper is cool, but yeah I can't imagine even seriously considering handing over actual dollars for one.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 17, 2014, 11:09:43 AM
They are not people. They are Viper buyers, that curious subset of homo sapiens that buys the inferior car precisely because it is purposefully inferior.
Its only inferior to you because it doesn't do what you think it should do as well as another. Other people have a different opinion of why they buy such cars.
Most buyers of these cars won't ever use their capabilities, or close to it. So, the question to ask is: what are they really looking for in that car?
Was a gray z06 at Detroit as well.
I read that Chevy is dropping Velocity Yellow for next year even tho the Z06 was unveiled in that color. A differant hue of yellow will be offered. I hope it has as much 'POP" as V Yellow did.... :cry:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 17, 2014, 07:02:40 PM
Was a gray z06 at Detroit as well.
Yep! They had one in Shark Gray (replaces Cyber Gray next year) on the floor.
The Z06 is in Shark Gray and the Stingray is Cyber Gray.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/TWOBIGHEDZ/011414_3_zpse5b6e77a.jpg)
Z06 is a bit over the top, but I dig it anyway
Shark gray looks fantastic.
That hood window just gets bigger and bigger. :lol:
Is it actually a window on this car or did they just paint the top of the power bulge black (or leave it exposed carbon fiber)?
No it's flat black. No window.
Yeah, I'm really liking that shark gray.
I'd say there's about an 80% chance a C7 in some form will be my next car purchase later this year or early next.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 07:38:36 AM
Yeah, I'm really liking that shark gray.
I'd say there's about an 80% chance a C7 in some form will be my next car purchase later this year or early next.
Z06? :wub:
We'll see, this zo6 seems kinda overkill to me,
You can´t be shown up, though.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
We'll see, this zo6 seems kinda overkill to me,
Either get a GT3 or a Z06. Don't be a pussy.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
We'll see, this zo6 seems kinda overkill to me,
i agree! A Z51 would suit me just fine!
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
We'll see, this zo6 seems kinda overkill to me,
A Z06 is definite overkill unless you're going to be tracking it. A Z51 seems perfect to me.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 20, 2014, 10:42:40 AM
A Z06 is definite overkill unless you're going to be tracking it. A Z51 seems perfect to me.
I think even for track use the Z06 is not entirely necessary.
A stingray with the Z51 pack is likely to be on the faster end of pretty much every track day.
Pussies, the lot of you.
Nah. I would prob just get a stingray z51. Toughest choices would be vert vs targa, and color.
Quote from: MrH on January 20, 2014, 02:55:02 PM
+1
From the guy with the toyota that runs mid 15's.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 03:29:20 PM
Nah. I would prob just get a stingray z51. Toughest choices would be vert vs targa, and color.
If you don't take it to the track I see the Z51 package as overkill. What point is it to have oil/trans/diff coolers?
Quote from: HotRodPilot on January 20, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
If you don't take it to the track I see the Z51 package as overkill. What point is it to have oil/trans/diff coolers?
I like the bigger wheels, rear spoiler and E Diff. But you correct the Z51 is over kill for the street but it's a damn good value!
Quote from: Lebowski on January 20, 2014, 03:29:20 PM
Nah. I would prob just get a stingray z51. Toughest choices would be vert vs targa, and color.
Vert! White with Aderneline Red interior.......
Quote from: HotRodPilot on January 20, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
If you don't take it to the track I see the Z51 package as overkill. What point is it to have oil/trans/diff coolers?
Bigger shocks too.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 20, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
From the guy with the toyota that runs mid 15's.
Hey, I'm not a self proclaimed millionaire like someone in this thread :lol:
It's not really about the money, I want a livable dd.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on January 20, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
If you don't take it to the track I see the Z51 package as overkill. What point is it to have oil/trans/diff coolers?
And the handling package is a complete waste on Florida roads. They're all flat and straight.
You can run a shitty 1980 Corvette at the track too. And you'd likely have nearly as much fun!
The big difference is when you drive home from the track in comfort.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 20, 2014, 07:33:50 PM
You can run a shitty 1980 Corvette at the track too. And you'd likely have nearly as much fun!
The big difference is when you drive home from the track in comfort.
You
can track a Lexus LS if you're so concerned with a comfortable ride home. :lol:
Z06 looks pretty sweet in person.
Sat in an C7, interior materials are better than the C6 but ... I don't know, feels smaller and more cramped, harder to get in and out of. Visibility out the back is pretty bad.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 25, 2014, 09:24:01 AM
Sat in an C7, interior materials are better than the C6 but ... I don't know, feels smaller and more cramped, harder to get in and out of. Visibility out the back is pretty bad.
I think this means its time to test drive a 911... :hmm:
:lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 25, 2014, 09:49:09 AM
I think this means its time to test drive a 911... :hmm:
:lol:
I plan to test drive both later this year, but the value of the C7 is hard to argue with. M3 and F-Type will also be in the mix.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 25, 2014, 10:47:32 AM
I plan to test drive both later this year, but the value of the C7 is hard to argue with. M3 and F-Type will also be in the mix.
F-type coupe or vert?
Quote from: MX793 on January 25, 2014, 10:50:50 AM
F-type coupe or vert?
Probably vert ... Honestly though I'd mainly just be curious to drive it, out of the four I listed the F-type would be a distant fourth choice for me (with the caveat that I haven't driven any of them).
I would definitely be buying one if I had a place to park it. Too much hassle/wouldn't ever get used in the city.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 25, 2014, 09:24:01 AM
Sat in an C7, interior materials are better than the C6 but ... I don't know, feels smaller and more cramped, harder to get in and out of. Visibility out the back is pretty bad.
A few people said the same thing on the Vette forums! One person even kept their C6 as a daily driver because it was roomier...
In trying to lose the FOG stereotype, Chevrolet got rid of critical belly room.
Is the more difficult ingress/egress due to better seat bolstering? They supposedly addressed all of the complaints that the seats didn't provide enough lateral support.
The thing is, fat old guys are the primary market for all these cars. Porsche etc buyers are no different, and if anything even fatter/older owing to price.
I'm not that big or old, and I found it harder to get in and out of and the bolsters pretty snug.
The ingress/egress thing could have been partially just that it was at the car show, the crowd of people around me waiting to get in.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 26, 2014, 06:54:46 AM
The thing is, fat old guys are the primary market for all these cars. Porsche etc buyers are no different, and if anything even fatter/older owing to price.
I'm not that big or old, and I found it harder to get in and out of and the bolsters pretty snug.
The ingress/egress thing could have been partially just that it was at the car show, the crowd of people around me waiting to get in.
Sounds like we need a Corvette Countryman CUV with flat, butt-level seats.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 26, 2014, 07:47:05 AM
Sounds like we need a Corvette Countryman CUV with flat, butt-level seats.
The C6 is perfectly livable day to day, I'm just surprised they made it worse in these areas.
Maybe gm figures all the old guys can just save 10K and buy a fat overpriced ugly camaro.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 26, 2014, 09:35:27 AM
Maybe gm figures all the old guys can just save 10K and buy a fat overpriced ugly camaro.
I didn't think the Camaro was that easy to get into or out of when I sat in one. Of all of the sporty cars I sat in or test drove (Mustang, Camaro, RX-8, FR-S), it was the only one I hit my head on the top of the door frame trying to climb in and out of.
Poor C7R is going to lose to a 911, Z4, and Viper in its premier at the 24hrs of Daytona
Damn, that sucks they made it smaller. I can't imagine why they'd do that. The C6 wasn't exactly comfortable for my 6'4" frame either...At least it looks badass?
Sounds like I'd like it more. I always felt the C6 was too damn big feeling on the inside for a pure sports car. And those seats........
Quote from: MX793 on January 26, 2014, 09:52:39 AM
I didn't think the Camaro was that easy to get into or out of when I sat in one. Of all of the sporty cars I sat in or test drove (Mustang, Camaro, RX-8, FR-S), it was the only one I hit my head on the top of the door frame trying to climb in and out of.
I was thinking the increased seat height or "suv seating height" of the camaro would make them more comfortable than actually getting in and out of a sports car.
Quote from: Onslaught on January 26, 2014, 10:28:12 AM
Sounds like I'd like it more. I always felt the C6 was too damn big feeling on the inside for a pure sports car. And those seats........
I think GM did alot to make this car appeal to the more traditional(non old guy vette) sports car market.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 26, 2014, 11:24:42 AM
I think GM did alot to make this car appeal to the more traditional(non old guy vette) sports car market.
And what is that market exactly?
The market of poor sales. I think you guys are kidding yourselves if they're trying to cut out their biggest market audience....
Quote from: Minpin on January 26, 2014, 01:35:53 PM
The market of poor sales. I think you guys are kidding yourselves if they're trying to cut out their biggest market audience....
I don't think they tried to make it NOT appeal to the traditional corvette owners. I think they tried to broaden it, is what I'm saying. Namely with the style of the car, which I've heard a lot of corvette guys criticize as "european" or as a "ferrari copy".
Like every sports car, it's existence is dependent on normal people buying the car for status purposes. The capabilities of the car are not important nor are they utilized to even a 1/5th of their potential. Without these 95(or even 99) percent of buyers the 1 percent who truely use the car to it's potential would be stuck in camry se's.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 26, 2014, 01:31:47 PM
And what is that market exactly?
The market that isn't the FOG w/strains of Harley-Davidsonism demographic that buys sports cars.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 26, 2014, 01:53:08 PM
The market that isn't the FOG w/strains of Harley-Davidsonism demographic that buys sports cars.
Ah, the market of people who can't afford a corvette :ohyeah:
Anything in that price range or above is going to have a significant % of fat old guys as buyers.
Corvette buyers have a certain stereotype beyond just "fat old guys."
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o123/vidal1313/001-1.jpg)
Quote from: afty on January 26, 2014, 03:23:02 PM
Corvette buyers have a certain stereotype beyond just "fat old guys."
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o123/vidal1313/001-1.jpg)
Oh, is that what we were talking about wrt space and ingress/egress?
Quote from: Lebowski on January 26, 2014, 08:22:04 AM
The C6 is perfectly livable day to day, I'm just surprised they made it worse in these areas.
They were trying to address an area of frequest criticizm IIRC, less than great seating.
I wonder what percentage of Corvette owners ever see a track with their car?
Quote from: Lebowski on January 26, 2014, 02:52:17 PM
Ah, the market of people who can't afford a corvette :ohyeah:
Anything in that price range or above is going to have a significant % of fat old guys as buyers.
Seems like a lot of the 911 owners I've seen tend not to be overweight, but certainly of advanced age.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 26, 2014, 07:31:07 PM
They were trying to address an area of frequest criticizm IIRC, less than great seating.
I wonder what percentage of Corvette owners ever see a track with their car?
Probably less than one percent, which isn't as hard to believe as one may think.
One out in every 100 corvette owners seems pretty realistic to me.
Sometimes things don't seem to work out the way they should. A car like the corvette(or even 911) would seem to be a common sight at a racetrack, you'd think the percentage on these cars would be pretty high.
Compared to something like a miata, which might have a much higher percentage(though still probably in the 2-3 percent range).
Quote from: r0tor on January 26, 2014, 10:11:21 AM
Poor C7R is going to lose to a 911, Z4, and Viper in its premier at the 24hrs of Daytona
Well no, it won.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 26, 2014, 07:37:02 PM
Probably less than one percent, which isn't as hard to believe as one may think.
One out in every 100 corvette owners seems pretty realistic to me.
Sometimes things don't seem to work out the way they should. A car like the corvette(or even 911) would seem to be a common sight at a racetrack, you'd think the percentage on these cars would be pretty high.
Compared to something like a miata, which might have a much higher percentage(though still probably in the 2-3 percent range).
Less than 1 percent wouldn't surprise me at all.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 26, 2014, 08:07:09 PM
Well no, it won.
The car that won wasn't a C7R. C7Rs run in the GT class with other production based cars (like the Viper, 911 GT3, and Z4). The "Corvette" that won was a prototype class car (purpose built, mid-engine) and completely unrelated.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 26, 2014, 08:07:09 PM
Well no, it won.
The Corvette DP won overall. The C7.R didn't do so well, but it was it's very first race.
Corvette DP
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)
C7.R
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQOagG3Bv4SfyU9kSQm97BZ3838frdbi6Iw97zKwqv3lECADABXw)
Quote from: MX793 on January 26, 2014, 08:10:52 PM
The car that won wasn't a C7R. C7Rs run in the GT class with other production based cars (like the Viper, 911 GT3, and Z4). The "Corvette" that won was a prototype class car (purpose built, mid-engine) and completely unrelated.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 26, 2014, 08:12:12 PM
The Corvette DP won overall. The C7.R didn't do so well, but it was it's very first race.
Corvette DP
C7.R
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQOagG3Bv4SfyU9kSQm97BZ3838frdbi6Iw97zKwqv3lECADABXw)
Whoops, thanks for the clarifications
2nd :/ Oh well
Quote from: Lebowski on January 26, 2014, 02:52:17 PM
Ah, the market of people who can't afford a corvette :ohyeah:
Anything in that price range or above is going to have a significant % of fat old guys as buyers.
No; trying to grab the M3/Cayman/911/S5/C63/etc. buyer who in times past would never ever consider a Corvette.
I virtually never see FOGs in the Corvette's competition.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 26, 2014, 09:18:34 PM
No; trying to grab the M3/Cayman/911/S5/C63/etc. buyer who in times past would never ever consider a Corvette.
I virtually never see FOGs in the Corvette's competition.
I see FOGs in all of those, plus many who buy those cars would never buy domestic particularly not a lowly Chevrolet.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 27, 2014, 04:20:26 AM
I see FOGs in all of those, plus many who buy those cars would never buy domestic particularly not a lowly Chevrolet.
I virtually never see FOGs in any of those cars, esp. the M3 or Cayman.
M3 is a little younger, more ricey crowd. 911 around here, absolutely the typical buyer is old (and very often fat and old).
Point is, beware of alienating the existing customer base in an attempt to appeal to people who won't buy it anyway. Avg buyer of a $60k+ 2-seater is older, and sadly the avg American of any age is fat and getting fatter. Many Porsche/BMW buyers ain't gonna buy domestic nomatter what.
I do wish the C7 was a bit less camaro-ish in appearance and had fewer non body colored vents etc, but I hardly see any of the things I mentioned about the C6 vs C7 (a bit more room and decent ingress/egress) as negatives. The seats could go either way, but IMO much of the seat complaints were from journalists as opposed to buyers. I think a sportier seat is nice as an option, though.
I can't believe you guys are railing against this car at all. I also don't think it's as pretty as the C6, but performance wise it'll outwalk the C6, and you get such a better car for the same money.
Well I saw my first C7 out in the public for the first time today when I went to get gas. It was maroon and it looked like it had brown interior (which I thought was a good combo). I was going to talk to the owner about it but he sat inside the car after he put the pump on auto. Sounded a bit loud but I'm not sure if it was factory or aftermarket exhaust. Must have been a manual because he let the car die before leaving :lol:
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on January 27, 2014, 06:48:02 PM
Well I saw my first C7 out in the public for the first time today when I went to get gas. It was maroon and it looked like it had brown interior (which I thought was a good combo). I was going to talk to the owner about it but he sat inside the car after he put the pump on auto. Sounded a bit loud but I'm not sure if it was factory or aftermarket exhaust. Must have been a manual because he let the car die before leaving :lol:
The factory exhaust is just loud. I guess that's okay, since most old people can't hear,anyway.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 27, 2014, 06:49:35 PM
The factory exhaust is just loud. I guess that's okay, since most old people can't hear,anyway.
Well this car was driven by a black guy that looked to be in his 30s.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on January 27, 2014, 06:55:34 PM
Well this car was driven by a black guy that looked to be in his 30s.
Did you call police?
Quote from: Catman on January 28, 2014, 09:48:21 AM
Did you call police?
No need. He´ll be stopped in a matter of minutes anyway :evildude:
Quote from: Catman on January 28, 2014, 09:48:21 AM
Did you call police?
:lol:
Quote from: mzziaz on January 28, 2014, 10:35:50 AM
No need. He´ll be stopped in a matter of minutes anyway :evildude:
:hesaid: :cheers:
Quote from: mzziaz on January 28, 2014, 10:35:50 AM
No need. He´ll be stopped in a matter of minutes anyway :evildude:
Guess that explains the tinted windows.
From WIKIPEDIA:
According to research by Specialty Equipment Market Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialty_Equipment_Market_Association) and Experian Automotive, as of 2009, there were approximately 750,000 Corvettes of all model years registered in the United States. Corvette owners were fairly equally distributed throughout the country, with the highest density in Michigan (3.47 per 1000 residents) and the lowest density in Utah, Mississippi, and Hawaii (1.66, 1.63, and 1.53 registrations per 1000 residents). 47% of them hold college degrees (significantly above the nationwide average of 27%), and 82% are between ages of 40 and 69 (median age being 53).[92]
From About.com
The facts are easy enough - according to thie demographic analysis by SEMA (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/news-announcements-forum/110811-corvette-demographics-2009-a.html), 65% of Corvette buyers are over 50, and the biggest demographic slice is 61-63 at 12% of buyers. But what does it mean?
Corvette sales have fallen 65% over the last few years. According to the demographics, about 40% of new Corvette buyers have household incomes over $100,000 - and the great recession has probably accounted for a big drop in sales. The Corvette is a halo car - it's expensive, high performance, and impractical for most people to use as a daily grocery-getter
From Corvette Blogger.com
If you compare the 911 to the Corvette, the age difference is seemingly small – the average 911 buyer is 53 (http://blogs.motortrend.com/corvette-welcome-to-the-cheap-seats-21889.html), the average Corvette buyer is 58. Yet the 911 isn't the only product in Porsche's portfolio. If you look at the similarly priced (base model to base model) Porsche Boxster and Cayman, the age discrepancy is much larger. Comparing a base-model Corvette to a Cayman or Boxster in terms of performance, the vehicles aren't in the same ballpark. The Vette' offers more power, faster 0-60 and quarter mile times, and arguably better driving dynamics...and that's the problem. Younger buyers are choosing to buy cars that offer inferior performance over the Corvette. That's a flashing red indication of an image problem.V
From dailyfinance.com:
Why the 2014 Corvette Stingray Isn't Good EnoughbyJohn Rosevear, The Motley Fool (http://www.dailyfinance.com/tag/@motleyfool/) Oct 6th 2013 1:06PM
Updated Oct 6th 2013 1:08PM(http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-046-medium_large.jpg)The all-new seventh-generation 2014 Corvette is now starting to arrive at dealers. But what kind of audience will it find? Photo credit: General Motors.
The reviews have been very positive: In terms of the overall driving experience, the 2014 Chevrolet Corvette is a definite improvement over its mostly well-regarded predecessor.
It's lighter. The frame is stiffer, something that matters a lot with a sports car. The interior is well finished, something that couldn't be said of the outgoing model. The revised V8 engine is both more powerful and more fuel-efficient.
Today's iteration of America's Sports Car is a high-tech wonder -- one that General Motors still manages to offer at a price much lower than rivals'.
But the Corvette still has a big problem -- one that GM, for all of the new Corvette's prowess in road tests, may not have solved.
The Corvette isn't a young guy's car
The problem is this: The Corvette's audience is getting old.
Actually, that's not the best way to describe the problem. The real problem is that GM hasn't been able to attract younger buyers to the Corvette, despite years of trying.
According to figures from market-research firm Strategic Vision, the median age of a Corvette buyer is now 61 years old. That's up from 54 years old a decade ago.
It's the same crowd, in other words. The same folks who were buying Vettes a decade ago are the ones buying them now. They're getting older, and soon they'll be hitting the point in life where a low-slung, hard-riding sports car doesn't make sense.
That doesn't bode well for the Corvette's future. Or really, for its present.
And it means that no matter how well it performs on the track, the new Vette may fall short of its rivals where it matters most -- in sales and profits.
Why don't younger folks crave Corvettes?
Apparently, because they're not cool. But what does that mean?
We know that today's young adults -- the so-called "millennials" -- aren't engaged by cars in the way that their predecessors were. There are a lot of theories that try to explain why, but the facts are the facts: Among twentysomethings, interest in (and sales of) new cars are down.
But there's still plenty of demand for sports cars, among younger folks and somewhat older folks as well. Porsche's best-seller these days is the Cayenne SUV, but the German firm is still selling plenty of Boxsters and Caymans and 911s -- most at prices quite a bit steeper than the Corvette's.
The company's demographics are a lot better than the Corvette's: Plenty of Porsche buyers are in their 40s. And Porsche is finding success in China, where a surge of youngish professionals are driving a boom in luxury-brand purchases. The Porsche brand is a global status symbol, and the cars' appeal crosses generations.
Like Porsches, the latest Corvette shines in performance tests. But it doesn't have the same kind of cross-generational appeal. And it's certainly not a global status symbol.
At least not yet. And that's where I'd argue that GM hasn't succeeded with the new car.
The Vette's formula isn't getting the job done
The new car is a fine achievement, a solid improvement on its predecessor. But it's nothing more than that, and as I see it -- and I'm a former Vette owner myself -- that's the problem.
GM didn't rethink the Corvette formula this time around. The last model, the sixth-generation Corvette, had styling inspired by Stealth fighter planes -- as did its predecessor. The new car plays more riffs on that theme, with some added elements that might have been inspired by video games.
The classic curves that made the 1960s Corvettes into style icons weren't part of the brief. The new Vette is a flashy car, not an elegant one -- just like the last Vette.(http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-056-medium_large.jpg)The old Vette is a classic. Will the new one ever have the same status? Photo credit: General Motors.
The new Vette's styling is dramatic, but I think it's going to look dated pretty quickly. And I think it's safe to say that it's not a look that will appeal to the sweet spot of today's luxury-car demographic.
How do I know that? Simple: Look at the cars that do: Tesla's Model S, the latest Maseratis, BMW's coupes, and so forth. For that matter, look at the classic -- timeless -- cool of recent Aston Martins. The Vette is a very different animal. And I think that difference is going to limit its audience, and its sales.)
Also contrast the new Vette with the approach that Ford took with its last Mustang: a "retro" look that still managed to appeal to younger buyers. Like the Vette, the Mustang is an old-school formula executed with some modern technology. But unlike the Vette, the current Mustang managed to find a broad demographic appeal.
I argue that the Mustang's success has had a lot do with its classic, gimmick-free styling. (http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-090-medium_large.jpg)From some angles, the new Corvette's styling is more jarring than beautiful. Photo credit: General Motors.
GM went for flashy over cool, for striking over classic, with the new Vette. That's a subjective call, and it was surely a carefully calculated decision by GM. GM says it wants to attract younger folks to the Vette, of course. But first and foremost it doesn't want to alienate loyal Corvette buyers.
That decision might have been a mistake.
What GM needs to do next time
Nobody wants to alienate a loyal customer base. And GM shouldn't turn the Vette into something radically different.
But consider this: Those 1960s Vettes, the ones with timeless-yet-cutting-edge styling, are the ones that made such a big impression on today's 61-year-old Vette buyers, long ago.
This new Vette is a nice car. But it's not timeless, just formulaic, flashy. That might work one more time with those old-school customers.
But I don't think it's going to win the new customers that GM needs for its halo car. I think that after the initial rush of interest, we're going to see Vette sales head slowly downhill.
And that means that the next all-new Corvette -- if there is one -- is going to have to be very different.
That red looks phenomenal, but the rear end is still hard for me to like.
We saw a C7 the other day and the wife likes it. Maybe an addition to the garage in a couple of years..
Quote from: SVT666 on January 28, 2014, 02:50:31 PM
That red looks phenomenal, but the rear end is still hard for me to like.
One of the car mags just tested a yellow one. From the pictures of the front end and reart end it looked like the offspring of an illicit affair between Pikachu and a new Camaro. :lol:
I was initially impressed, but the more I see it, the less I like it.
I love the profile and I love the front (both look very modern Ferrari to me), but the back is just a little busy for my taste. I would totally buy (or at least very seriously consider) one if I had the means, though.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 28, 2014, 02:34:07 PM
From WIKIPEDIA:
According to research by Specialty Equipment Market Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialty_Equipment_Market_Association) and Experian Automotive, as of 2009, there were approximately 750,000 Corvettes of all model years registered in the United States. Corvette owners were fairly equally distributed throughout the country, with the highest density in Michigan (3.47 per 1000 residents) and the lowest density in Utah, Mississippi, and Hawaii (1.66, 1.63, and 1.53 registrations per 1000 residents). 47% of them hold college degrees (significantly above the nationwide average of 27%), and 82% are between ages of 40 and 69 (median age being 53).[92]
From About.com
The facts are easy enough - according to thie demographic analysis by SEMA (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/news-announcements-forum/110811-corvette-demographics-2009-a.html), 65% of Corvette buyers are over 50, and the biggest demographic slice is 61-63 at 12% of buyers. But what does it mean?
Corvette sales have fallen 65% over the last few years. According to the demographics, about 40% of new Corvette buyers have household incomes over $100,000 - and the great recession has probably accounted for a big drop in sales. The Corvette is a halo car - it's expensive, high performance, and impractical for most people to use as a daily grocery-getter
From Corvette Blogger.com
If you compare the 911 to the Corvette, the age difference is seemingly small – the average 911 buyer is 53 (http://blogs.motortrend.com/corvette-welcome-to-the-cheap-seats-21889.html), the average Corvette buyer is 58. Yet the 911 isn't the only product in Porsche's portfolio. If you look at the similarly priced (base model to base model) Porsche Boxster and Cayman, the age discrepancy is much larger. Comparing a base-model Corvette to a Cayman or Boxster in terms of performance, the vehicles aren't in the same ballpark. The Vette' offers more power, faster 0-60 and quarter mile times, and arguably better driving dynamics...and that's the problem. Younger buyers are choosing to buy cars that offer inferior performance over the Corvette. That's a flashing red indication of an image problem.V
From dailyfinance.com:
Why the 2014 Corvette Stingray Isn't Good EnoughbyJohn Rosevear, The Motley Fool (http://www.dailyfinance.com/tag/@motleyfool/) Oct 6th 2013 1:06PM
Updated Oct 6th 2013 1:08PM(http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-046-medium_large.jpg)The all-new seventh-generation 2014 Corvette is now starting to arrive at dealers. But what kind of audience will it find? Photo credit: General Motors.
The reviews have been very positive: In terms of the overall driving experience, the 2014 Chevrolet Corvette is a definite improvement over its mostly well-regarded predecessor.
It's lighter. The frame is stiffer, something that matters a lot with a sports car. The interior is well finished, something that couldn't be said of the outgoing model. The revised V8 engine is both more powerful and more fuel-efficient.
Today's iteration of America's Sports Car is a high-tech wonder -- one that General Motors still manages to offer at a price much lower than rivals'.
But the Corvette still has a big problem -- one that GM, for all of the new Corvette's prowess in road tests, may not have solved.
The Corvette isn't a young guy's car
The problem is this: The Corvette's audience is getting old.
Actually, that's not the best way to describe the problem. The real problem is that GM hasn't been able to attract younger buyers to the Corvette, despite years of trying.
According to figures from market-research firm Strategic Vision, the median age of a Corvette buyer is now 61 years old. That's up from 54 years old a decade ago.
It's the same crowd, in other words. The same folks who were buying Vettes a decade ago are the ones buying them now. They're getting older, and soon they'll be hitting the point in life where a low-slung, hard-riding sports car doesn't make sense.
That doesn't bode well for the Corvette's future. Or really, for its present.
And it means that no matter how well it performs on the track, the new Vette may fall short of its rivals where it matters most -- in sales and profits.
Why don't younger folks crave Corvettes?
Apparently, because they're not cool. But what does that mean?
We know that today's young adults -- the so-called "millennials" -- aren't engaged by cars in the way that their predecessors were. There are a lot of theories that try to explain why, but the facts are the facts: Among twentysomethings, interest in (and sales of) new cars are down.
But there's still plenty of demand for sports cars, among younger folks and somewhat older folks as well. Porsche's best-seller these days is the Cayenne SUV, but the German firm is still selling plenty of Boxsters and Caymans and 911s -- most at prices quite a bit steeper than the Corvette's.
The company's demographics are a lot better than the Corvette's: Plenty of Porsche buyers are in their 40s. And Porsche is finding success in China, where a surge of youngish professionals are driving a boom in luxury-brand purchases. The Porsche brand is a global status symbol, and the cars' appeal crosses generations.
Like Porsches, the latest Corvette shines in performance tests. But it doesn't have the same kind of cross-generational appeal. And it's certainly not a global status symbol.
At least not yet. And that's where I'd argue that GM hasn't succeeded with the new car.
The Vette's formula isn't getting the job done
The new car is a fine achievement, a solid improvement on its predecessor. But it's nothing more than that, and as I see it -- and I'm a former Vette owner myself -- that's the problem.
GM didn't rethink the Corvette formula this time around. The last model, the sixth-generation Corvette, had styling inspired by Stealth fighter planes -- as did its predecessor. The new car plays more riffs on that theme, with some added elements that might have been inspired by video games.
The classic curves that made the 1960s Corvettes into style icons weren't part of the brief. The new Vette is a flashy car, not an elegant one -- just like the last Vette.(http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-056-medium_large.jpg)The old Vette is a classic. Will the new one ever have the same status? Photo credit: General Motors.
The new Vette's styling is dramatic, but I think it's going to look dated pretty quickly. And I think it's safe to say that it's not a look that will appeal to the sweet spot of today's luxury-car demographic.
How do I know that? Simple: Look at the cars that do: Tesla's Model S, the latest Maseratis, BMW's coupes, and so forth. For that matter, look at the classic -- timeless -- cool of recent Aston Martins. The Vette is a very different animal. And I think that difference is going to limit its audience, and its sales.)
Also contrast the new Vette with the approach that Ford took with its last Mustang: a "retro" look that still managed to appeal to younger buyers. Like the Vette, the Mustang is an old-school formula executed with some modern technology. But unlike the Vette, the current Mustang managed to find a broad demographic appeal.
I argue that the Mustang's success has had a lot do with its classic, gimmick-free styling. (http://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/75657/2014-chevrolet-corvette-090-medium_large.jpg)From some angles, the new Corvette's styling is more jarring than beautiful. Photo credit: General Motors.
GM went for flashy over cool, for striking over classic, with the new Vette. That's a subjective call, and it was surely a carefully calculated decision by GM. GM says it wants to attract younger folks to the Vette, of course. But first and foremost it doesn't want to alienate loyal Corvette buyers.
That decision might have been a mistake.
What GM needs to do next time
Nobody wants to alienate a loyal customer base. And GM shouldn't turn the Vette into something radically different.
But consider this: Those 1960s Vettes, the ones with timeless-yet-cutting-edge styling, are the ones that made such a big impression on today's 61-year-old Vette buyers, long ago.
This new Vette is a nice car. But it's not timeless, just formulaic, flashy. That might work one more time with those old-school customers.
But I don't think it's going to win the new customers that GM needs for its halo car. I think that after the initial rush of interest, we're going to see Vette sales head slowly downhill.
And that means that the next all-new Corvette -- if there is one -- is going to have to be very different.
Wow, this is not very good.
Corvettes have never appealed to "younger" buyers for various reasons, most notably that they're too expensive.
The Mustang (and Camaro) found "broad demographic appeal" because they're about half the cost and are more practical. Complaints about flashy and not-timeless styling apply WAY more to these cars than the Corvette.
The Corvette is selling less and less because the C6 carried on for 10 years and because of more competition, including the Camaro.
I love how the article puts so much emphasis on age! How many 20 or 30 somethings can shell out around 60K for a Sportscar? At that age the Mustang or Camaro it a much better choice! (especially for those that need room for more than 1 passenger) I'd like to see the average age of the guys/gals that buy used Corvettes..........
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2014, 05:00:12 PM
Wow, this is not very good.
Corvettes have never appealed to "younger" buyers for various reasons, most notably that they're too expensive.
The Mustang (and Camaro) found "broad demographic appeal" because they're about half the cost and are more practical. Complaints about flashy and not-timeless styling apply WAY more to these cars than the Corvette.
The Corvette is selling less and less because the C6 carried on for 10 years and because of more competition, including the Camaro.
:hesaid: I read that the C7 will have a 5 year lifespand...
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2014, 05:00:12 PM
Wow, this is not very good.
Corvettes have never appealed to "younger" buyers for various reasons, most notably that they're too expensive.
The Mustang (and Camaro) found "broad demographic appeal" because they're about half the cost and are more practical. Complaints about flashy and not-timeless styling apply WAY more to these cars than the Corvette.
The Corvette is selling less and less because the C6 carried on for 10 years and because of more competition, including the Camaro.
Corvette gradually priced itself out of the younger thirtyish market. Initially, they were mid-range, now they're looking to compete at a higher level but somehow missed the prerequisites of that market...hence falling into the market of well off FOGs.
Inflation for corvette has been no more (and probably less) that most of the competition. It hasn't been a cheap car at least anytime in my lifetime.
Go price out a well equipped Boxster or Cayman reasonably equipped.
There was a Cayman S in Detroit with an as equipped price of $123k.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 28, 2014, 05:52:32 PM
Inflation for corvette has been no more (and probably less) that most of the competition. It hasn't been a cheap car at least anytime in my lifetime.
Go price out a well equipped Boxster or Cayman reasonably equipped.
There was a Cayman S in Detroit with an as equipped price of $123k.
I was basing my observation on recollection and this table...though I can't swear to the precise accuracy of it.
Although the Corvette is closer to the price range of a Boxster or Cayman, it is perceived by some to compete with the 911 Turbo...though it lacks in refinement to all of them. It's still looked upon as a muscle car.
Quote
C1's
Production....Year..Base Price..2010 Dollars..Other Base Prices
300.............1953, $3,498.00, $28,388.43
3,640..........1954, $2,774.00, $22,345.34
700.............1955, $2,774.00, $22,428.72
3,467..........1956, $3,120.00, $24,855.27
6,339..........1957, $3,176.32, $24,493.50
9,168..........1958, $3,591.00, $26,924.67
9,670..........1959, $3,875.00, $28,854.37
10,261........1960, $3,872.00, $28,345.00
10,939........1961, $3,934.00, $28,509.92
14,531........1962, $4,038.00, $28,972.92
C2's
21,513........1963, $4,252.00, $30,109.58, Vert $4,037.00
22,229........1964, $4,252.00, $29,721.07, Vert $4,037.00
23,564........1965, $4,321.00, $29,723.95, Vert $4,106.00
27,720........1966, $4,295.00, $28,724.40, Vert $4,084.00
22,940........1967, $4,388.75, $28,472.61, Vert $4,240.75
C3's
28,566........1968, $4,663.00, $29,034.81, Vert $4,320.00
38,762........1969, $4,781.00, $28,228.35, Vert $4,438.00
17,316........1970, $5,192.00, $28,995.85, Vert $4,849.00
21,801........1971, $5,496.00, $29,405.23, Vert $5,259.00
27,004........1972, $5,533.00, $28,682.52, Vert $5,296.00
30,464........1973, $5,561.50, $27,142.00, Vert $5,398.50
37,502........1974, $6,001.50, $26,378.24, Vert $5,765.50
38,465........1975, $6,810.10, $27,428.63, Vert $6,550.10
46,558........1976, $7,604.85, $28,960.85,
49,213........1977, $8,647.65, $30,921.34
46,776........1978, $9,351.89, $31,080.26
53,807........1979, $10,220.23, $30,504.01
40,614........1980, $13,140.24, $34,554.84
40,606........1981, $16,258.52, $38,756.98, First year of Bowling Green Plant, 8,995 Vettes were built there.
25,407........1982, $18,290.07, $41,069.64
C4's
51,547........1984, $21,800.00, $45,464.64
39,729........1985, $24,403.00, $49,143.24
35,109........1986, $27,027.00, $53,434.30, Vert $32,032.00
30,632........1987, $27,999.00, $53,406.86, Vert $33,172.00
22,789........1988, $29,489.00, $54,014.23, Vert $34,820.00
26,412........1989, $31,545.00, $55,124.12, Vert $36,785.00
23,646........1990, $31,979.00, $53,017.85, Vert $37,264.00, ZR-1 option $27,016, (3,049)
20,639........1991, $32,455.00, $51,634.19, Vert $38,770.00, ZR-1 option $31,683, (2,044)
20,479........1992, $33,635.00, $51,947.74, Vert $40,145.00, ZR-1 option $31,683, (502)
21,590........1993, $34,595.00, $51,877.42, Vert $41,195.00, ZR-1 option $31,683, (448)
23,330........1994, $36,185.00, $52,907.01, Vert $42,960.00, ZR-1 option $31,258, (448)
20,742........1995, $36,785.00, $52,302.04, Vert $43,665.00, ZR-1 option $31,258, (448)
21,536........1996, $37,225.00, $51,409.65, Vert $45,060.00
C5's
9,752..........1997, $37,495.00, $50,621.05
31,084.........1998, $37,495.00, $49,844.66, Vert $44,425.00
33,270.........1999, $39,171.00, $50,947.46, Vert $45,579.00, FRC $38,777.00
33,682.........2000, $39,475.00, $49,673.17, Vert $45,900.00, FRC $38,900.00
35,627.........2001, $40,475.00, $49,522.34, Vert $47,000.00, Z06 $47,500.00
35,767.........2002, $41,450.00, $49,925.94, Vert $47,975.00, Z06 $50,150.00
35,469.........2003, $43,895.00, $51,692.80, Vert $50,370.00, Z06 $51,155.00
34,064.........2004, $44,535.00, $51,086.05, Vert $51,535.00, Z06 $52,385.00
C6's
37,372.........2005, $43,710.00, $48,496.61, Vert $51,445.00
34,021.........2006, $43,600.00, $47,937.70, Vert $52,335.00, Z06 $65,800.00
40,561.........2007, $44,995.00, $47,937.70, Vert $52,910.00, Z06 $70,000.00
35,310.........2008, $46,950.00, $47,251.80, Vert $52,335.00, Z06 $65,800.00
16,956.........2009, $48,565.00, $49,051.70, Vert $53,220.00, Z06 $73,255.00, ZR1 $104,920.00
10,???..........2010, $49,880.00, $49,880.00, Vert $54,530, GS Coupe $55,720, GS Vert $59,530, Z06 $75,235, ZR1 $109,130
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 28, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
I love how the article puts so much emphasis on age! How many 20 or 30 somethings can shell out around 60K for a Sportscar? At that age the Mustang or Camaro it a much better choice! (especially for those that need room for more than 1 passenger) I'd like to see the average age of the guys/gals that buy used Corvettes..........
GM doesn't really care about the age of those buying used Corvettes. That in itself doesn't make a new one more appealing to a younger demographic.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 28, 2014, 05:52:32 PM
Inflation for corvette has been no more (and probably less) that most of the competition. It hasn't been a cheap car at least anytime in my lifetime.
Go price out a well equipped Boxster or Cayman reasonably equipped.
There was a Cayman S in Detroit with an as equipped price of $123k.
And yet the Cayman has a younger demographic than the Corvette. That's the problem for GM; how to make those between say 30 and 55 years of age who can afford one want to buy a Corvette rather than a Porsche or whatever.
I see the Corvette, alond with Porsche, AM, Jaguar, Ferrari and others of that ilk as asperational cars. Younger buyers with money are apparently Ignoring the Corvette, despite it's performance credentials.
Maybe it's an image problem that it's produced by GM bread and butter car division, Maybe it's a perception problem harking back to the 70's vettes.
Being in this younger group (mid to late 20s), I can say that my friends and I are digging this Corvette a lot more then the C6. Sure, we can't afford it, but it actually comes up in contention a lot more now in those hypothetical won the lottery lists. It doesn't look as old now.
I think Chevy did exactly what it had to do to try to tap a younger market - edgier, sharper, more tech, more refined.
I'll take mine in white with the black wheels:
(http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2014/1/22/364/259/36063427694.364259550.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2014, 11:17:12 PM
I'll take mine in white with the black wheels:
(http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2014/1/22/364/259/36063427694.364259550.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
Nice. I dig that look, don't usually like white though.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2014, 11:17:12 PM
I'll take mine in white with the black wheels:
(http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2014/1/22/364/259/36063427694.364259550.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
I like white as well.
White has become one of my favorite car colors the last few years, ~10yrs ago it was my least favorite. I always thought the C6 looked pretty good in white, that was one of the cars that started to change my mind.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 28, 2014, 08:49:55 PM
And yet the Cayman has a younger demographic than the Corvette. That's the problem for GM; how to make those between say 30 and 55 years of age who can afford one want to buy a Corvette rather than a Porsche or whatever.
I see the Corvette, alond with Porsche, AM, Jaguar, Ferrari and others of that ilk as asperational cars. Younger buyers with money are apparently Ignoring the Corvette, despite it's performance credentials.
Maybe it's an image problem that it's produced by GM bread and butter car division, Maybe it's a perception problem harking back to the 70's vettes.
A lot of those buyers want the Porsche badge. Nothing GM can do to the corvette will change the brand image of anything GM compared to Porsche (or BMW or MB etc).
I don't think it's a perception harking to '70s or any vettes, it's harking to the Big3 in general. Older people may remember a different time, people in my generation grew up in some pretty dark days for the Big 3, plus our generation is probably more brand focused than previous generations across the board, not just cars.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 29, 2014, 06:53:17 AM
A lot of those buyers want the Porsche badge. Nothing GM can do to the corvette will change the brand image of anything GM compared to Porsche (or BMW or MB etc).
And that's a big problem for GM to try to solve.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
I think Chevy did exactly what it had to do to try to tap a younger market - edgier, sharper, more tech, more refined.
And only time will tell if it worked. :huh:
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 29, 2014, 08:16:13 AM
And that's a big problem for GM to try to solve.
They can't and never will. A Chevy badge will never equal a Porsche badge.
The Corvette is a very good car and an exceptional value, many people appreciate that and will buy it. But from a brand snob perspective, GM will never equal the premium European brands.
Also note w/ all the focus on demographics and the sales mix by age ...
Per wiki for example the Boxster + Cayman NA sales were only 3-4k units/yr. Corvette is multiples of that. Be careful of false conclusions - that the average Boxster buyer is younger than the average Corvette buyer does not equal "more young people buy boxsters/caymans vs Corvettes". Corvette still holds wide appeal, I really don't see the high avg age as a problem given it's price range and annual sales volume.
Not a lot of young people are in the market for a $60k+ two seater. For those few who are, it's a lot easier to move the needle on a 3k unit/yr product than a 20k+ unit/yr product (20k+ the avg over the c6 lifespan).
I won't be buying a two seater until my kids have moved out. I will be 50 years old. There is a reason people under 50 rarely buy 2 seaters; most of us have kids once we hit 30 and we can't afford them in our 20s.
I really dig this new corvette. Couldn't see myself buying a Boxster or Cayman over it, but likely won't be buying another car until I am 40 (if I can help it). I like my S4 but there are lots of times I miss having a smaller and more agile car.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 29, 2014, 08:17:07 AM
And only time will tell if it worked. :huh:
How well it worked, IMO, not that if it worked.
The goal to sell more cars isn't necessarily a good or proper or intended goal. It's just what many assume.
The upper trim levels and options seem more expensive, and the Z06 is likely going to be relatively more expensive too. This would further push it out of reach of ever more younger buyers.
I, for one, don't want a Corvette. I don't care for the clientele. They're Corvette drivers, not sports car driver. You can park next to an S2000 and have a conversation with the driver, but I don't get that feeling with Corvette drivers.
Quote from: Raza on January 29, 2014, 01:16:56 PM
I, for one, don't want a Corvette. I don't care for the clientele. They're Corvette drivers, not sports car driver. You can park next to an S2000 and have a conversation with the driver, but I don't get that feeling with Corvette drivers.
And yet you drive a BMW.
There are 2 types of corvette owners.
You have the corvette owners who are obsessed, obnoxious and think the cars are the best thing ever.
then
You have the corvette owners who think the obsessed, obnoxious corvette owners are a bunch of douches and make fun of them. All the while realizing the car is just a car and don't get in the us vs them(other sports cars) BS arguements.
I've actually met alot of the 2nd type, in fact one guy is even so hated by the other owners that he isn't welcome at some of the shows.
What's the reason he's hated? Because he pointed out what a pile of shit alot of the pre C5's were, rightfully so.
The comical part is that he has owned EVERY generation of vette and even still has a 100 point extremely clean 1st generation vette. He told a few of the local vette guys(when they asked why he wasn't driving it) that he uses it for a tool bench in the garage because it isn't good for anything else.
So not all of them are bad, the first type is not unique to vettes. I've met those people from all sorts of different brands/models. They suck, not matter what they are in.
My dad was ignored at alot of Corvette club meets because he had a 427 and the older guys only had 327's and 350's lol
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 29, 2014, 07:55:46 PM
There are 2 types of corvette owners.
You have the corvette owners who are obsessed, obnoxious and think the cars are the best thing ever.
then
You have the corvette owners who think the obsessed, obnoxious corvette owners are a bunch of douches and make fun of them. All the while realizing the car is just a car and don't get in the us vs them(other sports cars) BS arguements.
I've actually met alot of the 2nd type, in fact one guy is even so hated by the other owners that he isn't welcome at some of the shows.
What's the reason he's hated? Because he pointed out what a pile of shit alot of the pre C5's were, rightfully so.
The comical part is that he has owned EVERY generation of vette and even still has a 100 point extremely clean 1st generation vette. He told a few of the local vette guys(when they asked why he wasn't driving it) that he uses it for a tool bench in the garage because it isn't good for anything else.
So not all of them are bad, the first type is not unique to vettes. I've met those people from all sorts of different brands/models. They suck, not matter what they are in.
Accents are pretty much the best thing ever. And you suck.
Holy shit. Tesla vs. Z51.
2013 Tesla Model S P85 vs 2014 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Z51 Drag Racing 1/4 Mile Heads up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOqWlOrlkIg#ws)
Wow
Well, the Tesla got a huge jump in the first race and the Corvette had a far higher trap speed (+ 6 mph) in both races. Plus, the Corvette was an AT.
Still surprising (at least to me) how close they are.
That Tesla ran a pretty quick 1/4 regardless of the jump at the start.
No 8 speed for the Stingray! I don't get this! :nutty:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/2015-stingray-will-deprived-8-speed-automatic-transmission/ (http://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/2015-stingray-will-deprived-8-speed-automatic-transmission/)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 29, 2014, 07:55:46 PM
There are 2 types of corvette owners.
You have the corvette owners who are obsessed, obnoxious and think the cars are the best thing ever.
then
You have the corvette owners who think the obsessed, obnoxious corvette owners are a bunch of douches and make fun of them. All the while realizing the car is just a car and don't get in the us vs them(other sports cars) BS arguements.
I've actually met alot of the 2nd type, in fact one guy is even so hated by the other owners that he isn't welcome at some of the shows.
What's the reason he's hated? Because he pointed out what a pile of shit alot of the pre C5's were, rightfully so.
The comical part is that he has owned EVERY generation of vette and even still has a 100 point extremely clean 1st generation vette. He told a few of the local vette guys(when they asked why he wasn't driving it) that he uses it for a tool bench in the garage because it isn't good for anything else.
So not all of them are bad, the first type is not unique to vettes. I've met those people from all sorts of different brands/models. They suck, not matter what they are in.
That guy sounds like an even bigger douche than the type 1 douches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfejZsjiAII#t=455 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfejZsjiAII#t=455)
Quote from: HotRodPilot on February 09, 2014, 06:03:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfejZsjiAII#t=455 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfejZsjiAII#t=455)
Cool video, but kind of a weird format. The lack of a direct overall comparison hurts the content a bit
Yeah. Weird comparison. They couldn't find a single car that would compete with it? Sounds like a major win for the Vette.
Saw my first C7 Corvette in the flesh yesterday. Didn't realize it was a Corvette at first...thought it was some exotic I hadn't heard of. Then I saw the badges.
Very impressed on first sight, to say the least.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/7948cbe742c5114e28f8a4cbb3b2d8fc/tumblr_n3vsmbzwp21s6wi4vo2_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/9420c876826bb5702a1bac9525d6adf5/tumblr_n3vsmbzwp21s6wi4vo4_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/a5231e5c975a7f98b1ac4ea12fcffd0a/tumblr_n3vsmbzwp21s6wi4vo5_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/a7cda4f2babc0dc5e776d3a79b44a8ff/tumblr_n3vsmbzwp21s6wi4vo3_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/b2b0667a85cf8b15052664b79db45fe5/tumblr_n3vsmbzwp21s6wi4vo1_1280.jpg)
via Autoblog (http://"http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/11/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-convertible-is-the-track-car-for-sun/")
Man they are ///Ming the Z06 badge
Badass
Can you imagine the sound on a 0-60 run with the top down.
Man, I can't get over that ugly steering wheel.
Quote from: mzziaz on April 12, 2014, 12:30:56 PM
Man, I can't get over that ugly steering wheel.
I don't like it either, and the rest of the interior is a messy design as well. None of which would stop me from getting one though.
Quote from: Rockraven on April 13, 2014, 05:57:34 AM
I don't like it either, and the rest of the interior is a messy design as well. None of which would stop me from getting one though.
Doesn't bother me. Best Corvette interior ever.
Quote from: Catman on April 13, 2014, 10:09:13 AM
Doesn't bother me. Best Corvette interior ever.
Considering some of the past Corvette interiors (C4 and C5 were especially awful), that's not difficult.
I didn't like the steering wheel in pics, but looks ok in person.
It looks fine, but seems like there's a bit too much going on in general. Both exterior and interior. I like the looks of the standard better overall.
Only thing I don't like about the wheel, is with the manual transmission, you get paddle shifters to turn on and off auto Rev matching. Seems like a really stupid placement IMO. Get rid of them, and just give me a button on the center stack somewhere.
I think the paddles are better than a button. Better placement, can be used with both hands with out taking your eyes off the wheels, and cheap. Win win win win
Quote from: 68_427 on April 13, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
I think the paddles are better than a button. Better placement, can be used with both hands with out taking your eyes off the wheels, and cheap. Win win win win
Who's turning rev-matching on and off while they're slinging the thing around a track, though...?
Probably just cost savings - the AT car has paddle shifters too. Now both the MT and AT cars have the same wheel and column and no futzing about where to put the optional rev match button on the console or dash.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 13, 2014, 06:43:48 PM
Probably just cost savings - the AT car has paddle shifters too. Now both the MT and AT cars have the same wheel and column and no futzing about where to put the optional rev match button on the console or dash.
That was my figuring as well.
Quote from: MrH on April 13, 2014, 04:46:26 PM
Only thing I don't like about the wheel, is with the manual transmission, you get paddle shifters to turn on and off auto Rev matching. Seems like a really stupid placement IMO. Get rid of them, and just give me a button on the center stack somewhere.
I was wondering why the manual car had paddles
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 13, 2014, 07:54:32 PM
I was wondering why the manual car had paddles
If the engine dies you can row back to shore, duh.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 13, 2014, 06:43:48 PM
Probably just cost savings - the AT car has paddle shifters too. Now both the MT and AT cars have the same wheel and column and no futzing about where to put the optional rev match button on the console or dash.
It is, but it's a lazy penny pinching move IMO.
Back in the old days, they just would have put caps over the paddle holes.
Interior looks good IMHO. I like the way the steering wheel looks (at least in pictures). :huh:
Exterior is a bit fussy (seems like a lot of details added on), but not bad.
I sat in a C7 at our local autoshow and was still just as unimpressed as any other corvette... Styling is just fussy inside and out like every other generation I have been in
If you guys don't think the C7's interior is an improvement over the C6, then you're being a fucking idiot.
Starting to see these now. From a distance, they look really good. Haven't seen one up close yet, but I agree, in pictures, it looks way too fussy.
Quote from: Rockraven on April 14, 2014, 03:52:33 AM
If the engine dies you can row back to shore, duh.
:lol:
I recently sat in one. Loved it, they fixed the interior. There is no better sports car for the price. End of story.
Not sure what the complaint is. You have to spend almost double $$$ to get the next closest equivalent in experience and performance (= 911 CS).
I was always a Viper fan since 1991, but the Corvette just kicks it's ass for half the cost. I'm in the Corvette camp now.
Very bad project management with the current Viper. Pretty much no one wants a car purposefully designed to be exceedingly crude; certainly not a ~$100,000+ car. The Viper in its heyday was crude because, well, most all cars were. No reason to continue that legacy if not necessary.
Quote from: Raza on April 14, 2014, 09:47:34 AM
Starting to see these now. From a distance, they look really good. Haven't seen one up close yet, but I agree, in pictures, it looks way too fussy.
If it had fewer creases and vents, it would look a lot better.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 14, 2014, 12:12:37 PM
Very bad project management with the current Viper. Pretty much no one wants a car purposefully designed to be exceedingly crude; certainly not a ~$100,000+ car. The Viper in its heyday was crude because, well, most all cars were. No reason to continue that legacy if not necessary.
Whats crude about a Viper compared to a GT3 RS or 458 Speciale :confused:
Track day specials have never been about refinement
Quote from: Raza on April 14, 2014, 09:47:34 AM
Starting to see these now. From a distance, they look really good. Haven't seen one up close yet, but I agree, in pictures, it looks way too fussy.
Someone at my gym has one and I really like it in person. It's black and it looks very sharp. I like the lighting on it too, it is distinctive and easy to pick out the LED DRLs and tails without looking too ridiculous.
Quote from: thewizard16 on April 15, 2014, 01:05:10 AM
Someone at my gym has one and I really like it in person. It's black and it looks very sharp. I like the lighting on it too, it is distinctive and easy to pick out the LED DRLs and tails without looking too ridiculous.
This one is yellow. I see it sometimes in the morning when I'm running late, going the opposite way on I95.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 14, 2014, 02:43:19 PM
Whats crude about a Viper compared to a GT3 RS or 458 Speciale :confused:
Track day specials have never been about refinement
Viper is not a track car.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 15, 2014, 09:04:03 AM
Viper is not a track car.
A convenient fabrication.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 15, 2014, 09:04:03 AM
Viper is not a track car.
Viper is definitely a track car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 15, 2014, 09:59:24 AM
A convenient fabrication.
C'mon, man. The Viper has been as much a track car as a Corvette Z06/ZR1, which is to say it's not a track car. At most one can rationally say the ACR version was a track car.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 15, 2014, 10:17:44 AM
C'mon, man. The Viper has been as much a track car as a Corvette Z06/ZR1, which is to say it's not a track car. At most one can rationally say the ACR version was a track car.
C6 Z06 & ZR1 aren't as track biased but they are definitely track cars too. And they are not much less crude than the Viper. Viper has never been a comfy long distance GT... it's a rough and tumble sports car with performance and concessions heavily biased to the track.
C'mon people, Vipers and Corvettes are not cars at all.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 15, 2014, 09:04:03 AM
Viper is not a track car.
No more than a GT3 RS or a 458 Speciale
I miss the Ford GT. Even years after it's demise it's still better than these two cars.
Quote from: Catman on April 15, 2014, 05:39:55 PM
C'mon people, Vipers and Corvettes are not cars at all.
:lol: :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 16, 2014, 07:27:54 AM
I miss the Ford GT. Even years after it's demise it's still better than these two cars.
Om nom nom.
(http://content.worldcarfans.co/2014/4/16/super/1335798549677879678.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mwBVISeaPRQ/U0_B9eHU9cI/AAAAAAAQx-c/4Xsb6axsZxY/s1600/2015-Chevy-Corvette-Z06-0.jpg)
Hot damn. That thing is RAW-DICK-A-LAUS!
http://youtu.be/QsNJZonuMNY (http://youtu.be/QsNJZonuMNY)
I saw a C7 in the airport arrivals row. Still not looking crappy/plasticky. So far so good.
I've seen a few up close (was shopping/looking at ZL1s last week) and it's kinda platicky looking when you get right up to it (could've just been the color - the one I saw was a rather drab gray).
Anyway, the C7 Z06 is officially rated at an SAE 650 hp and 650 lb-ft (http://www.hotrod.com/news/supercharged_2015_corvette_z06_lt4_rated_at_650_horsepower/). Wow.
Quote from: Laconian on April 30, 2014, 10:45:37 PM
I saw a C7 in the airport arrivals row. Still not looking crappy/plasticky. So far so good.
I saw a C6 and C7 parked next to each other this weekend, both were the nice dark red color. C7 looked much better than the C6. Sleeker, crisper, faster, more modern.
I think from certain angles it looks great and the profile is stunning. But certain details esp the rear end and many of the vents are cheap and plasticky looking IMO. Overall the C6 is the better looking of the two, adjusting for age (C7 looks newer/fresher obviously, but compared to the C6 vs the competition back in '05, it isn't as good looking IMO).
Saw a C7 (white) tooling about my town this weekend. Looks very good IMHO.
In sadder news, I found out the doctor my brother works for (brother is an x-ray tech) decided not to get a new Corvette this time around and instead opted for an S8. I think he is getting soft in his old age. :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on June 09, 2014, 01:21:01 PM
I think from certain angles it looks great and the profile is stunning. But certain details esp the rear end and many of the vents are cheap and plasticky looking IMO. Overall the C6 is the better looking of the two, adjusting for age (C7 looks newer/fresher obviously, but compared to the C6 vs the competition back in '05, it isn't as good looking IMO).
Yeah I agree. I think the vents would be better without the plastic inserts and the rear needs to be rid of all the black.
Less is more
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/189740/2008-ferrari-599-gtb-fiorano-fender-vent-photo-189807-s-1280x782.jpg)
I really enjoyed this C&D Car Nerds series on Corvette:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbNTak1RHeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbNTak1RHeU)
Well I just worked on one last week. Someone ran one under a truck and fucked up the front end. I was shocked at how easy the front bumper and fenders and stuff come off it. Most Vets in the past are kind of a pain in the butt to work on. I think you could pull the front bumper off with a good pull of your hands if you really wanted to. And while the interior is way better then in the past it could still use some work. I noticed some things moving around that shouldn't And I was also surprised at the lack of room in them. I can fit in many sports cars just fine but I had a real problem with head room and my ass fitting in the seat. And keep in mind I have a car with nonadjustable RECARO seats made to fit Japanese people so my ass isn't the problem.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 23, 2014, 03:49:01 PM
And I was also surprised at the lack of room in them. I can fit in many sports cars just fine but I had a real problem with head room and my ass fitting in the seat. And keep in mind I have a car with nonadjustable RECARO seats made to fit Japanese people so my ass isn't the problem.
This was mentioned a few pages back but I was surprised by this as well after sitting in it in Detroit. Felt noticeably smaller and more cramped inside than my C6.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 23, 2014, 04:40:44 PM
This was mentioned a few pages back but I was surprised by this as well after sitting in it in Detroit. Felt noticeably smaller and more cramped inside than my C6.
Lots of the C6 guys mentioned this after sitting in the C7!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on June 23, 2014, 05:45:03 PM
Lots of the C6 guys mentioned this after sitting in the C7!
Kind of an odd decision given the demographic of corvette buyers. I'm not a big guy (5'10" and ~180lbs), and I felt cramped.
FOGs
I could drive one. But I'm not sure I'd ever be really comfortable. I can get more comfortable in the FD RX-7 then I can the C7 and that's strange seeing that American cars normally have way more room in them.
But boy when you put that thing in Sport or Track mode it sounds sooooooooo fucking good. Not sure how I feel about the push button door handles to get in and out.
The C6 had the same type of door handles. Not sure about the C5.
C5 did not
Quote from: Onslaught on June 23, 2014, 09:00:14 PM
I could drive one. But I'm not sure I'd ever be really comfortable. I can get more comfortable in the FD RX-7 then I can the C7 and that's strange seeing that American cars normally have way more room in them.
But boy when you put that thing in Sport or Track mode it sounds sooooooooo fucking good. Not sure how I feel about the push button door handles to get in and out.
My C6 had them and I despised the damn things! Thats the only thing I really hated about my car!
Never bothered me.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 24, 2014, 05:47:20 AM
Never bothered me.
I think mine had a bad actuator! A couple times I had to use the manual latches on the floor!
I was just on Chevys website and I noticed the price of the Z51 package has jumped from $2500 to $5000!!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 04, 2014, 02:21:06 PM
I was just on Chevys website and I noticed the price of the Z51 package has jumped from $2500 to $5000!!
Read the fine print, all Z51's now include a spare motor for track use.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 13, 2014, 07:47:36 AM
Read the fine print, all Z51's now include a spare motor for track use.
:shakesfist:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t185/vwambit/20140921_155247_zpse05e61d5.jpg)
Is that rain or a pool of oil under the front of the car?
Front tires look bald!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 21, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
Is that rain or a pool of oil under the front of the car?
:rolleyes:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 21, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
Is that rain or a pool of oil under the front of the car?
Probably a leak from the oil filter.
Saw a C7 in town the other day. Reminded me a lot of the XLR.
New Z06 does 0-60 in 2.95 seconds. :mask:
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-corvette-z06-hits-0-60-in-2-95-seconds-is-stu-1641216532 (http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-corvette-z06-hits-0-60-in-2-95-seconds-is-stu-1641216532)
That is stupid fast. 10.95 in the 1/4 mile.
want.
Never liked Chevys but the last few iterations of Vettes just get better and better.
1.2g on the skidpad? Lol
WOW. That's insane for a RWD car. How is that even possible?
Quote from: SVT666 on October 01, 2014, 11:35:44 AM
WOW. That's insane for a RWD car. How is that even possible?
Is the Ferrari Italia the only other RWD car that broke the 3 second mark?
lolwtfbbq
I wonder what its dynamics on track will be like, it's "personality"
Can't wait for lightning lap
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 01, 2014, 11:40:33 AM
lolwtfbbq
I wonder what its dynamics on track will be like, it's "personality"
Can't wait for lightning lap
Well, we've seen what they've done with a Camaro...
Man I swear TTAC and Jalopnik have mastered the art of flame bait.
"Thats right haters, the auto is FASTER"
So what lol. A Camry V6 will give my car a rough fucking time in a straight line, does that make it better?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
So what lol. A Camry V6 will give my car a rough fucking time in a straight line, does that make it better?
Well, you do want to sell it so you can buy an Accord.
I'll be happy with the manual and 3.2 seconds, TYVM.
The CHARGER Hellcat is... faster! (see thread in mainstream).
Jesus. That blows the ZR1 outta the water at $78k.
Quote from: Rockraven on October 01, 2014, 12:52:35 PM
The CHARGER Hellcat is... faster! (see thread in mainstream).
On drag radials ;). Put those on the new Z06 and it'll probably break into the 9 sec range (up to 1,000 lbs lighter but only ~60 less hp).
Quote from: GoCougs on October 01, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
Jesus. That blows the ZR1 outta the water at $78k.
Completely neuters the Viper.
I wouldnt go that far, lets see the track times.
If the Z06 Z07 Z08 auto drop top can outlap a Viper NISMO R/T-R without spilling froth out of its cappachino maker then we can lower the Viper's casket
I personally would not be convinced with anything less though.
I'd think mags would probably get 3.1's to 60.
I'm guessing chevy might have went all out to get a pre pro model under 3 seconds, after many tests and fine tuning they probably just realized it was easier to lie(something they are well versed in).
Still fast though.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 01, 2014, 01:50:49 PM
I'd think mags would probably get 3.1's to 60.
I'm guessing chevy might have went all out to get a pre pro model under 3 seconds, after many tests and fine tuning they probably just realized it was easier to lie(something they are well versed in).
Still fast though.
:lol:
I have been a Viper fan since the Viper came out in 1992 and annihilated the Vette, and continued to do so for the next ~18 years. The Viper was the most badass car you could buy and with the 2nd generation it got world class handling and the ACR could pretty much wipe the floor with anything else on the market. The new Viper was pretty much no better than the last car and is now getting spanked by most cars that compete with it. Viper is dead.
Its not the Viper's fault. An Accord V6 is a low 14 second car. An OG Viper would not be able to pull on a measly 370Z. Viper was killed by progress.
Hopefully, now manufacturers will have to figure out something other than performance to sell cars with. Through all the headlines and bullshit, cars like the Boxster/Cayman GTS still strike a deep chord with enthusiasts across the board. Z06 Z07 Z08 Z09 is fast, we knew that. Real question is if its an improvement of the breed and worthy of the Z06 badge.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 01, 2014, 01:54:37 PM
I have been a Viper fan since the Viper came out in 1992 and annihilated the Vette, and continued to do so for the next ~18 years. The Viper was the most badass car you could buy and with the 2nd generation it got world class handling and the ACR could pretty much wipe the floor with anything else on the market. The new Viper was pretty much no better than the last car and is now getting spanked by most cars that compete with it. Viper is dead.
Sad, not even the ford fanboy mentions the GT.
Personally never been a huge viper fan, the only corvette's I've given a second look too where C5 Z06's and C6 06/R1's. With that said the ford GT is still the best, IMO. But the new C7 Z06 makes a damn good case for itself.
(http://img2.netcarshow.com/Ford-GT_2005_1024x768_wallpaper_01.jpg)
Badass looks, tons of racing heritage and the motors in the right spot.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 01, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
Sad, not even the ford fanboy mentions the GT.
Personally never been a huge viper fan, the only corvette's I've given a second look too where C5 Z06's and C6 06/R1's. With that said the ford GT is still the best, IMO. But the new C7 Z06 makes a damn good case for itself.
Well sure, the Ford GT is the best. It's in another galaxy.
There's something about the Ford GT that just makes me :huh:
It's a brilliant car but it's not really special. It's kind of a "New Beetle" GT40.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
There's something about the Ford GT that just makes me :huh:
It's a brilliant car but it's not really special. It's kind of a "New Beetle" GT40.
I've never seen something so stupid come out of your keyboard.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
There's something about the Ford GT that just makes me :huh:
It's a brilliant car but it's not really special. It's kind of a "New Beetle" GT40.
Well, you're really not a Ford/domestic fan. GTs are now selling for about double their new price.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 01, 2014, 02:20:13 PM
Well, you're really not a Ford/domestic fan. GTs are now selling for about double their new price.
on the absolute low end. I just looked on cars.com. Cheapest GT is about 240G's all the way up to 600.
It is the best car ever made by any(mainstream) US manufacturer, If that ain't special then I don't know what is.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 01:59:13 PM
Its not the Viper's fault. An Accord V6 is a low 14 second car. An OG Viper would not be able to pull on a measly 370Z. Viper was killed by progress.
Hopefully, now manufacturers will have to figure out something other than performance to sell cars with. Through all the headlines and bullshit, cars like the Boxster/Cayman GTS still strike a deep chord with enthusiasts across the board. Z06 Z07 Z08 Z09 is fast, we knew that. Real question is if its an improvement of the breed and worthy of the Z06 badge.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
There's something about the Ford GT that just makes me :huh:
It's a brilliant car but it's not really special. It's kind of a "New Beetle" GT40.
What the hell are you talking about
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 01, 2014, 02:21:48 PM
on the absolute low end. I just looked on cars.com. Cheapest GT is about 240G's all the way up to 600.
It is the best car ever made by any(mainstream) US manufacturer, If that ain't special then I don't know what is.
Love the GT, but it wasn't (isn't) the most reliable car ever made. In any case, it's a moot point to compare it to a $79,000 Corvette, and IIRC, the best GT 0-60 times were 3.3 seconds.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 01, 2014, 02:25:43 PM
What the hell are you talking about
No idea. The Viper will kill the 370Z. Let's not get silly here.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on October 01, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
Sad, not even the ford fanboy mentions the GT.
Personally never been a huge viper fan, the only corvette's I've given a second look too where C5 Z06's and C6 06/R1's. With that said the ford GT is still the best, IMO. But the new C7 Z06 makes a damn good case for itself.
What does the GT have to do with the Viper? The GT is one of my all time favourites. I love it. But, it would be a lie to say the Viper ACR didn't walk away from the GT on a track.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 01, 2014, 01:54:37 PM
I have been a Viper fan since the Viper came out in 1992 and annihilated the Vette, and continued to do so for the next ~18 years. The Viper was the most badass car you could buy and with the 2nd generation it got world class handling and the ACR could pretty much wipe the floor with anything else on the market. The new Viper was pretty much no better than the last car and is now getting spanked by most cars that compete with it. Viper is dead.
Not a fair comparison. The Viper cost 2x as much as the C4 save for the ZR1.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 01, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
Not a fair comparison. The Viper cost 2x as much as the C4 save for the ZR1.
True, but he's correct in that not much (if anything) could touch the Viper at its price point during its first 2 generations. Today though, even a Chrysler 4 door sedan is as fast or faster (depending on the drag radial thing).
For the Viper to regain relevance, it needs a redesign to accommodate the Hellcat engine, and an $80,000 price tag. Realistically, after the 600-something Vipers languishing on dealer lots are sold, I fear it's done.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 01, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
Not a fair comparison. The Viper cost 2x as much as the C4 save for the ZR1.
1992 Viper = $50K
1992 Vette = $35K
1992 Vette ZR-1 = $60K
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 01, 2014, 02:13:22 PM
Well sure, the Ford GT is the best. It's in another galaxy.
Well, depends what you mean by best ;). Sure The Ford GT is pretty bespoke and interesting but performance-wise the ~$70k Z06 with pooprods and leaf springs was every bit the performer for half the cost, and for 2/3rds the cost the C6 ZR1 was in another league.
Quote from: Rockraven on October 01, 2014, 02:43:39 PM
Love the GT, but it wasn't (isn't) the most reliable car ever made. In any case, it's a moot point to compare it to a $79,000 Corvette, and IIRC, the best GT 0-60 times were 3.3 seconds.
:hesaid: And I doubt the Z06 will have any problems circling a track! Look at the time the Z51 put down at VIR!!!
Sorry, I was speaking in generalities. The best car doesn't have to be the fastest or the most reliable. I hope one day somebody(american) makes a better car than the GT, on every level. I just don't think we are there yet.
I think this may be the car unless you want a true mid engine car to compete with the GT.......
I've got to sit in a new C7. Very nice interior a real step up from the previous gens.
Someone in town has a new Stingray in white. Never a big fan of white cars, but godalmighty it's gorgeous. :wub:
(http://cloving.com/wp-content/uploads/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Stingray-White-Images-Wallpaper.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on October 01, 2014, 03:14:07 PM
1992 Viper = $50K
1992 Vette = $35K
1992 Vette ZR-1 = $60K
The only fair comparison is the Viper vs. ZR1 and they were about even.
Quote from: Rockraven on October 04, 2014, 09:11:16 AM
Someone in town has a new Stingray in white. Never a big fan of white cars, but godalmighty it's gorgeous. :wub:
(http://cloving.com/wp-content/uploads/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Stingray-White-Images-Wallpaper.jpg)
Hello momma.
Same with white cars but I'm opening up to them.
Quote from: Rockraven on October 04, 2014, 09:11:16 AM
Someone in town has a new Stingray in white. Never a big fan of white cars, but godalmighty it's gorgeous. :wub:
(http://cloving.com/wp-content/uploads/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Stingray-White-Images-Wallpaper.jpg)
White as a car color has really been growing on me
Quote from: CALL_911 on October 04, 2014, 09:15:37 AM
White as a car color has really been growing on me
White is great on ice cream trucks, post office delivery vehicles and ambulances. On anything else it's as exciting as, well............. vanilla ice cream. ;)
(http://www.musclecarszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/02_insidelinechallengervp.jpg)
White like cocaine
Quote from: CLKid on October 04, 2014, 09:23:31 AM
White is great on ice cream trucks, post office delivery vehicles and ambulances. On anything else it's as exciting as, well............. vanilla ice cream. ;)
White is a great color.
Quote from: CLKid on October 04, 2014, 09:23:31 AM
White is great on ice cream trucks, post office delivery vehicles and ambulances. On anything else it's as exciting as, well............. vanilla ice cream. ;)
A '63 Pontiac Parisienne looks great in white. Depends on the car.
White is good on cars with crisp lines.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 04, 2014, 10:01:47 AM
White is good on cars with crisp lines.
Yeah. A lot of Lambos looks great in white. I think it's one of the best colors for the C7. Jag F-type looks really good in white as well.
You also need wheels that are a darker color. Light silver, or polished/chrome, wheels generally don't really work with white, IMO.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 04, 2014, 10:01:47 AM
White is good on cars with crisp lines.
Also on land yachts...
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/stephenhpeters/1963%20Pontiac%20Parisienne/IMG_9140.jpg)
I kinda wish I painted my car satin white instead of black.
Quote from: hotrodalex on October 04, 2014, 10:11:36 AM
I kinda wish I painted my car satin white instead of black.
Boring. A pearl white like the FRS would be nice.
Leno knows why white is right
Zenvo - Jay Leno's Garage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKpOnHGL5s#ws)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 04, 2014, 10:19:01 AM
Boring. A pearl white like the FRS would be nice.
That's a Subaru color. Learn your shit bruh
Quote from: 68_427 on October 04, 2014, 10:33:33 AM
That's a Subaru color. Learn your shit bruh
Fuck is this?
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w487/skoodgeFRS/IMG_0609.jpg)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 04, 2014, 10:19:01 AM
Boring. A pearl white like the FRS would be nice.
But I'm not a rapper.
C and d has the z06 review posted on their website. Pretty sweet. I wish they gave a better idea of what it was like to drive other than "really fast"
What's the steering feel like? What's the brake pedal pressure like? How about fade? What's the powerband like? Clutch feel? How's the ride?
What a shit review.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2014, 08:17:26 AM
What's the steering feel like? What's the brake pedal pressure like? How about fade? What's the powerband like? Clutch feel? How's the ride?
What a shit review.
Their primary test car was an automatic. They drove a stick version and made a few comments regarding the clutch feel at the end of the article.
Also, this test was part of a GM press event, so I gather that all they got was one day with the car at the track. Not their usual multi day test.
So other mags would have classified it as a first drive rather than a full test?
Quote from: MX793 on November 24, 2014, 08:41:49 AM
made a few comments regarding the clutch feel at the end of the article.
I don't see them
1.19g on the skidpad. For reference the 918 on the same tires was 1.10g.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2014, 08:51:53 AM
I don't see them
Sorry, last paragraph of page 1 with a sidebar giving the 0-60 and 1/4 mile for the manual car along with a note that that car threw some kind of fault light when they were driving it so times may be quicker on a faster car.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2014, 08:49:07 AM
So other mags would have classified it as a first drive rather than a full test?
Instrumented test vs a full road test. First drives generally don't include any kind of instrumented testing.
That said, I've found a lot of C&D's more recent tests to be exceptionally short on qualitative details. Seems like review pieces are shorter in general from what they were 8+ years ago when I was a subscriber.
All the American rags are going to shit. Didn't they all consolidate recently? The place to get insights is from consumer based sites like Edmunds and CR, on video like MT's excellent YT channel & overseas (i.e. EVO).
Mt has an ignition episode for the z06
Yea was just about to say MT's video is up
$100K... Z07 Stage 3 or entry level GT-R...........................
LMAO!!!!
Weirdest, weirdest, weirdest thing here is the gulf in excitement between the Viper and this. Is the Corvette really that much more refined/user friendly?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 24, 2014, 12:19:52 PM
Yea was just about to say MT's video is up
$100K... Z07 Stage 3 or entry level GT-R...........................
LMAO!!!!
Weirdest, weirdest, weirdest thing here is the gulf in excitement between the Viper and this. Is the Corvette really that much more refined/user friendly?
Viper sucks ass in comparison, and I hate saying that because I have always loved the Viper and hated the Vette.
What is so bad about the Viper though... I thought they refined the hell out of it this go round
Compared to the previous one, still seems kinda kit car-y.
Hmmm - hard to believe they could outdo the ZR1 but sounds like the C7 Z06 blows it outta the water.
Also note the 1/4 mile in 11.1 sec @ 127 mph was in a heavier A/T car without any sort of launch control (including brake torquing)...
I read Hot Rod's article about it and thought it mentioned launch control?
LC makes it slower (????)
I wonder if they will even do a ZR1 this go round. Seems unnecessary
Yes you can launch better without launch control. Launch control is just more consistent and almost as quick. So if you're bracket racing at your local strip use launch control.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 24, 2014, 12:19:52 PM
Yea was just about to say MT's video is up
$100K... Z07 Stage 3 or entry level GT-R...........................
LMAO!!!!
Weirdest, weirdest, weirdest thing here is the gulf in excitement between the Viper and this. Is the Corvette really that much more refined/user friendly?
The Viper just tries too hard to be "bad" and it sounds like a UPS truck. The Corvette also has a much bigger legacy and there are less expensive versions available (i.e., far more customers/followers).
By "launch control" I meant some sort of launch. They said they simply just pegged the gas on the A/T car to get those numbers.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 24, 2014, 02:51:55 PM
By "launch control" I meant some sort of launch. They said they simply just pegged the gas on the A/T car to get those numbers.
That's not what Launch Control means.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 24, 2014, 02:51:55 PM
By "launch control" I meant some sort of launch. They said they simply just pegged the gas on the A/T car to get those numbers.
When they said "no Launch Control", they meant they didn't engage the car's launch control system. They simply launched as they would any other automatic car without said feature/system.
:wub: I gotta hurry up and pay my house off..........
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 24, 2014, 02:38:46 PM
LC makes it slower (????)
I wonder if they will even do a ZR1 this go round. Seems unnecessary
I don't see why not, ZL1 and Z/28 Camaros both exist and offer two very different Camaro feels. Maybe the Z06 will be the 911 Turbo and the ZR1 will be the GT3 this time, who knows.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2014, 08:17:26 AM
What's the steering feel like? What's the brake pedal pressure like? How about fade? What's the powerband like? Clutch feel? How's the ride?
What a shit review.
Who cares about that when you can just look at drag times?
From Top Gear:
QuoteThink it's fair to say it's going to crush anything less than a 918, P1 or LaFerrari. Its combination of relentless power, unshakeable chassis - with all its clever technology that works with you - and vast brakes is unbeatable at the moment. And that's just on the track.
While it sounds good to hear them say it I can't imagine it being faster than a Speciale or 650S.
Quote from: 68_427 on November 25, 2014, 01:04:02 PM
From Top Gear:
While it sounds good to hear them say it I can't imagine it being faster than a Speciale or 650S.
Why not
Slightly more weight
But much more torque and as much to much more power. More tire and I think brakes too.
We will never know if its faster than the Speciale because Ferrari is pussy
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 25, 2014, 01:34:07 PM
Why not
Slightly more weight
But much more torque and as much to much more power. More tire and I think brakes too.
We will never know if its faster than the Speciale because Ferrari is pussy
They just gave Chris Harris the keys to a Speciale to put up against a GT3 :huh:
Quote from: SVT666 on November 24, 2014, 02:57:22 PM
That's not what Launch Control means.
Quote from: MX793 on November 24, 2014, 03:32:27 PM
When they said "no Launch Control", they meant they didn't engage the car's launch control system. They simply launched as they would any other automatic car without said feature/system.
Search YouTube for "launch control" and you'll see examples of it.
Automatic cars are or can be brake torque'd (floor gas and brake @ same time to load up the torque converter).
Lots of newer automatic cars say screw you and kill the fun of brake torquing.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 25, 2014, 01:38:31 PM
Search YouTube for "launch control" and you'll see examples of it.
Automatic cars are or can be brake torque'd (floor gas and brake @ same time to load up the torque converter).
I know what brake-torquing is. That's not "launch control" in the context of modern vehicle discussions. The C7 Z06 actually has a launch control feature that the driver can engage via a control on either the console or the wheel.
Quote from: MrH on November 25, 2014, 01:34:50 PM
They just gave Chris Harris the keys to a Speciale to put up against a GT3 :huh:
They do "comparos" all the time, but they don't let em do track times. Chris does track vids, but not hot laps, so it's fine. The rare times they did allow track times, Luca De Montezemolo came out himself to tune and benchmark the car with Ferrari Scuderia. It's bullshit. I like Ferraris but they are pussy when it comes to track battles.
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/wot/1401_talking_2015_chevrolet_corvette_z06_on_the_downshift/65180151+w670+h447+cr1+ar0/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-homepage.jpg)
I'm down with the Z06. It looks so badass.
Looks a lot like the race version in yellow. Cool.
(http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/rq/0042015_Chevy_Corvette_Z06_Convertible-md.jpg)
:wub:
Z06 Vert doesn't make any sense to me.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 26, 2014, 11:26:38 AM
Why not?
It's practically a race car. A vert doesn't make sense.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 11:28:29 AM
It's practically a race car. A vert doesn't make sense.
I wouldn't buy it to race. I'd buy it to cruise with the top down, drive some nice switchbacks on a sunny day, and enjoy the glorious V8 sounds. The Z06 roadster makes perfect sense to me.
If I were in the market for a Z06, I wouldn't buy one, but that's not to say it doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense.
It's not like people who buy the coupe buy it to race it. :huh:
Besides, the look of the roadster, even with the top up, is pretty amazing to me.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 26, 2014, 11:32:56 AM
I wouldn't buy it to race. I'd buy it to cruise with the top down, drive some nice switchbacks on a sunny day, and enjoy the glorious V8 sounds. The Z06 roadster makes perfect sense to me.
Then the Stingray Z51 is perfect for you. The Z06 is a balls out barely street legal race car.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 12:10:18 PM
Then the Stingray Z51 is perfect for you. The Z06 is a balls out barely street legal race car.
No, I want the Z06 roadster. Exactly like the one in the pic above.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 12:10:18 PM
Then the Stingray Z51 is perfect for you. The Z06 is a balls out barely street legal race car.
What's so hard to get about a Corvette convertible with more powar
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 26, 2014, 01:06:16 PM
What's so hard to get about a Corvette convertible with more powar
It's not just more power. It's a hardcore balls to the wall track machine. I just don't understand it.
You talk like it's unusable on the street, or it'll be a miserable driving experience.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 26, 2014, 01:10:25 PM
You talk like it's unusable on the street, or it'll be a miserable driving experience.
Obviously you and I differ on this, and that's cool, because if we all agreed on everything, then there would only be one sports car on the market.
Would want different tires for the street, for sure.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 11:28:29 AM
It's practically a race car. A vert doesn't make sense.
By this logic, neither does a drop top 458 Speciale.
Or an F1 car. :hammerhead:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 26, 2014, 02:12:12 PM
By this logic, neither does a drop top 458 Speciale.
Yup.
QuoteOr an F1 car. :hammerhead:
:rolleyes:
Uh-oh! Randy Pobst couldn't get the Z06 around Road Atlanta more than 4 laps without the car overheating. Guys on the Corvette Forums are complaining about their Stingray Z51's overheating on track days including the transmissions overheating past 300 degrees.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 04:16:43 PM
Uh-oh! Randy Pobst couldn't get the Z06 around Road Atlanta more than 4 laps without the car overheating. Guys on the Corvette Forums are complaining about their Stingray Z51's overheating on track days including the transmissions overheating past 300 degrees.
It was the auto-trans that overheated on Pobst's car as well.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 04:16:43 PM
Uh-oh! Randy Pobst couldn't get the Z06 around Road Atlanta more than 4 laps without the car overheating. Guys on the Corvette Forums are complaining about their Stingray Z51's overheating on track days including the transmissions overheating past 300 degrees.
If he had a roadster he wouldn't have had that problem. :lol:
Quote from: Rockraven on November 26, 2014, 04:23:53 PM
If he had a roadster he wouldn't have had that problem. :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on November 26, 2014, 04:16:43 PM
Uh-oh! Randy Pobst couldn't get the Z06 around Road Atlanta more than 4 laps without the car overheating. Guys on the Corvette Forums are complaining about their Stingray Z51's overheating on track days including the transmissions overheating past 300 degrees.
Not surprised, there's not much grill area up front.
All those pushrods that need to be cooled down. :lol:
In typical M/T fashion their writing sucks so it's impossible to know whether it was tranny or engine oil. Either way, it's no surprise as most any street car will overheat on a hot track day - lots of such stories of M3, Viper, Audi, 911, G37/370Z, ZL1, GT-R, etc, etc. Supercharged cars are that much more prone to it as the supercharger gets hot (i.e., more mass to cool) and the air entering the engine is way hotter than ambient.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 26, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
In typical M/T fashion their writing sucks so it's impossible to know whether it was tranny or engine oil. Either way, it's no surprise as most any street car will overheat on a hot track day - lots of such stories of M3, Viper, Audi, 911, G37/370Z, ZL1, GT-R, etc, etc. Supercharged cars are that much more prone to it as the supercharger gets hot (i.e., more mass to cool) and the air entering the engine is way hotter than ambient.
I can't say I've ever seen a magazine report having a car from a major manufacturer overheat in their track testing. Certainly not after 4 laps (which works out to be a scant 6 minutes of hard running).
Yea this is def not a regular thing
GM got some splainin to do
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 26, 2014, 10:53:56 PM
Yea this is def not a regular thing
GM got some splainin to do
It's like the Nissan brake issue from a few years ago when C&D almost had someone killed in the new 370Z.
Yea that was real bad. Weird too.
All this performance and the compromises to get it... it's starting to get a little silly
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 26, 2014, 11:07:17 PM
Yea that was real bad. Weird too.
All this performance and the compromises to get it... it's starting to get a little silly
I'm sure it's an isolated issue. If not GM better be quick to fix any problems with their halo car.
:lol:
http://vimeo.com/55461336 (ftp://vimeo.com/55461336)
Quote from: GoCougs on November 26, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
In typical M/T fashion their writing sucks so it's impossible to know whether it was tranny or engine oil. Either way, it's no surprise as most any street car will overheat on a hot track day - lots of such stories of M3, Viper, Audi, 911, G37/370Z, ZL1, GT-R, etc, etc. Supercharged cars are that much more prone to it as the supercharger gets hot (i.e., more mass to cool) and the air entering the engine is way hotter than ambient.
Excuses, excuses :rolleyes:.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 26, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
In typical M/T fashion their writing sucks so it's impossible to know whether it was tranny or engine oil. Either way, it's no surprise as most any street car will overheat on a hot track day - lots of such stories of M3, Viper, Audi, 911, G37/370Z, ZL1, GT-R, etc, etc. Supercharged cars are that much more prone to it as the supercharger gets hot (i.e., more mass to cool) and the air entering the engine is way hotter than ambient.
/\ Chevy apologist. Claims all these other cars suffered the same fate, yet no one else has heard these "stories" and he doesn't give any links. The only other car I can remember having issues was the old GT500 that would suffer heat soak after a few laps.
So why didn't you guys follow my instructions to use Google :(? It is (or should be) common knowledge that most cars; even performance oriented - GTR, 911, M3, etc.; when tracked to its utmost on a hot/humid day will generally run hot if not overheat. Also don't forget to throw in brakes and DSG, which are even more prone to overheating. And to be fair here to the Z06 it was an oil temp warning, not a coolant boil over, so it actually didn't "officially" overheat. In typical awful M/T writing we don't even know if it was engine oil - could've been tranny oil in which case no discussion is necessary as ALL slushie ATs ever built will quickly overheat when driven hard.
991 overheats on track (http://rennlist.com/forums/991/765315-991s-overheating-on-track.html)
Boss 302 LS overheats on track (http://themustangsource.com/forums/f813/boss-ls-overheating-issue-500146/)
370Z overheats on track (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/24567-oil-overheating-unique-vq37vhr-engine.html)
BMW (many many) overheats on track (http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=381362)
GTR overheats on track (http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/70982-stock-gtr-vs-stock-gt3-rs-on-track/)
Motor Trend recognizes that ZR1, GT500, GTR overheats on track (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1211_2013_srt_viper_track_drive/)
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
So why didn't you guys follow my instructions to use Google :(?
:lol:
FWIW, the track day experience I did with the 458 and GT-R went all day and I don't think any of the cars there had overheating problems :huh:
May just be a matter of switching to a better coolant :huh:
The matter is highly likely you and the other drivers were able to drive those cars at only a fraction of their potential (slower = less heat).
At least in the case of the GT-R, I believe there have been changes over the various model years to address cooling problems. For example, for 2013 Nissan upgraded the transmission cooler.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
So why didn't you guys follow my instructions to use Google :(?
I'm not doing your work for you. :ohyeah:
QuoteIt is (or should be) common knowledge that most cars; even performance oriented - GTR, 911, M3, etc.; when tracked to its utmost on a hot/humid day will generally run hot if not overheat. Also don't forget to throw in brakes and DSG, which are even more prone to overheating. And to be fair here to the Z06 it was an oil temp warning, not a coolant boil over, so it actually didn't "officially" overheat.
Oh, that makes it better then. :facepalm:
Quote from: MX793 on November 26, 2014, 08:34:40 PM
I can't say I've ever seen a magazine report having a car from a major manufacturer overheat in their track testing. Certainly not after 4 laps (which works out to be a scant 6 minutes of hard running).
The big badass sedans like the M5 or the E63 overheat at the track. However, that is true especially at altitude.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 01:32:06 PM
The matter is highly likely you and the other drivers were able to drive those cars at only a fraction of their potential (slower = less heat).
I don't think so. Most people can put the pedal to the metal every chance they get. Going around turns fast is a different story but that has nothing to do with stressing the cooling system. If anything, a less experienced driver would overheat the car more because of precisely less speed = less cooling. Also, harsher inputs (typical of novices) stress the whole car more.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 27, 2014, 01:16:29 PM
:lol:
FWIW, the track day experience I did with the 458 and GT-R went all day and I don't think any of the cars there had overheating problems :huh:
May just be a matter of switching to a better coolant :huh:
I think a car with the performance pretensions of the Z06 should withstand continuous lapping like a Ferrari does.
My experience:
- E46 M3: After a few laps you need to take some care to keep at a reasonable temp. Say, shift at 7,000 RPMs instead of 8,000 after the 4th lap or so. If you do that, it can go all day.
- E90 M3: It can go all day at full tilt.
- 1M: It can go all day with no warnings but gets somewhat hot - oil temps @ around 125 degrees C.
- M5: Can only do a few laps before things get seriously hot.
- Ferrari 360CS. Can go all day - with the temp barely budging beyond the mid-point.
The Z06 shouldn't have this problems. It's a dedicated performance and track oriented car. Especially not at sea level. Even the new turbo M5 can take the heat at sea level.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
So why didn't you guys follow my instructions to use Google :(? It is (or should be) common knowledge that most cars; even performance oriented - GTR, 911, M3, etc.; when tracked to its utmost on a hot/humid day will generally run hot if not overheat. Also don't forget to throw in brakes and DSG, which are even more prone to overheating. And to be fair here to the Z06 it was an oil temp warning, not a coolant boil over, so it actually didn't "officially" overheat. In typical awful M/T writing we don't even know if it was engine oil - could've been tranny oil in which case no discussion is necessary as ALL slushie ATs ever built will quickly overheat when driven hard.
991 overheats on track (http://rennlist.com/forums/991/765315-991s-overheating-on-track.html)
Boss 302 LS overheats on track (http://themustangsource.com/forums/f813/boss-ls-overheating-issue-500146/)
370Z overheats on track (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/24567-oil-overheating-unique-vq37vhr-engine.html)
BMW (many many) overheats on track (http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=381362)
GTR overheats on track (http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/70982-stock-gtr-vs-stock-gt3-rs-on-track/)
Motor Trend recognizes that ZR1, GT500, GTR overheats on track (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1211_2013_srt_viper_track_drive/)
You're saying that, under some circumstances, there are some cars that are almost as bad as the Z06 :huh:.
Z06 pushes the performance envelope more than most and it's brand new. Would bet new cooling will be included shortly (especially a larger AT cooler).
Should have been there from the jump. C7s are having some serious issues though so I'm not surprised. GM is boldly going where no pooprod has gone with the EPA's blessing and a factory warranty, but I am not sure it is worth it. Mite be time to switch to dem dere turbos, though that would not solve the cooling problem/.
Guys. One car supposedly overheated. The sky isn't falling.
Quote from: MrH on November 27, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
Guys. One car supposedly overheated. The sky isn't falling.
Yeah, for sure, but you Chevy guys should be used to this sort of think by now ;).
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2014, 05:57:42 PM
Yeah, for sure, but you Chevy guys should be used to this sort of think by now ;).
Since when am I a Chevy guy? :confused:
Quote from: MrH on November 27, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
Guys. One car supposedly overheated. The sky isn't falling.
Not according to the Corvette Forums. The regular Stingray Z51 is having major transmission overheating issues on track duty.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 27, 2014, 06:02:31 PM
Not according to the Corvette Forums. The regular Stingray Z51 is having major transmission overheating issues on track duty.
Even the manual?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on November 27, 2014, 03:50:24 PM
The big badass sedans like the M5 or the E63 overheat at the track. However, that is true especially at altitude.
I don't think so. Most people can put the pedal to the metal every chance they get. Going around turns fast is a different story but that has nothing to do with stressing the cooling system. If anything, a less experienced driver would overheat the car more because of precisely less speed = less cooling. Also, harsher inputs (typical of novices) stress the whole car more.
I think a car with the performance pretensions of the Z06 should withstand continuous lapping like a Ferrari does.
My experience:
- E46 M3: After a few laps you need to take some care to keep at a reasonable temp. Say, shift at 7,000 RPMs instead of 8,000 after the 4th lap or so. If you do that, it can go all day.
- E90 M3: It can go all day at full tilt.
- 1M: It can go all day with no warnings but gets somewhat hot - oil temps @ around 125 degrees C.
- M5: Can only do a few laps before things get seriously hot.
- Ferrari 360CS. Can go all day - with the temp barely budging beyond the mid-point.
The Z06 shouldn't have this problems. It's a dedicated performance and track oriented car. Especially not at sea level. Even the new turbo M5 can take the heat at sea level.
Faster around the track means more engine power output per unit of time and less time for cool down when not on the gas.
The few cars you mention that don't run hot/overheat also have vastly less than 650 hp and are not supercharged.
The Z06 is a performance car but I disagree that it is a track car. Either way this was highly likely a development/preproduction car so any issues it may have doesn't necessarily mean the production version will have them.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 27, 2014, 04:22:14 PM
You're saying that, under some circumstances, there are some cars that are almost as bad as the Z06 :huh:.
No - I'm saying that it's common for most cars to overheat on the track, esp. in hot/humid weather.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Faster around the track means more engine power output per unit of time and less time for cool down when not on the gas.
The few cars you mention that don't run hot/overheat also have vastly less than 650 hp and are not supercharged.
The Z06 is a performance car but I disagree that it is a track car. Either way this was highly likely a development/preproduction car so any issues it may have doesn't necessarily mean the production version will have them.
Keep making excuses.
Oh, and the Z06 is absolutely a track car.
Yea if the Z06 isn't a track car, what is? What are the carbon brakes and high speed aerodynamic pieces for? The thing's performance threshold is well beyond what you can even begin to approach on the street. 1.2gs! Where can you hit those grip levels on the street in good conscience?
Come on Cougs.
Quote from: MrH on November 27, 2014, 06:00:21 PM
Since when am I a Chevy guy? :confused:
Not you. I was supporting your comment about the sky not falling by remarking that it's nothing unusual...just so the Chevy guys don't feel they need to make excuses. We all expect things like this to happen to Chevys. :huh:
C'mon, guys. Just because cars are hi-po or can be driven on the track doesn't mean they are track cars. So, how do we know if it's a track car? I have provided a cheat sheet:
Is it available in convertible form? Not a track car.
Is it available with a slushie A/T? Not a track car.
Does it have forced induction? Not a track car.
And most obviously, does any facet of it - engine, tranny, brakes - run hot or overheat on the track? Not a track car.
R8? F12? F458? M3/M4? 911 Turbo? SLS? Huracan? F-Type R? Viper? None of these are track/race cars, including the game-changing Z06. They are designed to be relatively comfortable hi-po street cars.
There are very few legit track cars available from the factory - Z/28, 911 GT3, F458 Stradale, maybe a scant few others.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 28, 2014, 10:22:44 AM
C'mon, guys. Just because cars are hi-po or can be driven on the track doesn't mean they are track cars. So, how do we know if it's a track car? I have provided a cheat sheet:
Is it available in convertible form? Not a track car.
Is it available with a slushie A/T? Not a track car.
Does it have forced induction? Not a track car.
And most obviously, does any facet of it - engine, tranny, brakes - run hot or overheat on the track? Not a track car.
R8? F12? F458? M3/M4? 911 Turbo? SLS? Huracan? F-Type R? Viper? None of these are track/race cars, including the game-changing Z06. They are designed to be relatively comfortable hi-po street cars.
There are very few legit track cars available from the factory - Z/28, 911 GT3, F458 Stradale, maybe a scant few others.
You're delusional.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 27, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Faster around the track means more engine power output per unit of time and less time for cool down when not on the gas.
The few cars you mention that don't run hot/overheat also have vastly less than 650 hp and are not supercharged.
The Z06 is a performance car but I disagree that it is a track car. Either way this was highly likely a development/preproduction car so any issues it may have doesn't necessarily mean the production version will have them.
High school physics, eh? Remember that a novice driver actually wastes a lot of power by driving in an inefficient manner around the track. It has barely an impact on cooling, and if it does it should be on the negative side.
The Z06 is a car that many owners will track. And believe me, even if you track occasionally not being able to do more than a few laps will be huge bummer for those owners. If you track, you get a car like the Z06 to own anything else lapping out there.
I agree, however, that this is a single example / data point of overheating so nothing conclusive IMO.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on November 28, 2014, 10:33:04 AM
High school physics, eh? Remember that a novice driver actually wastes a lot of power by driving in an inefficient manner around the track. It has barely an impact on cooling, and if it does it should be on the negative side.
The Z06 is a car that many owners will track. And believe me, even if you track occasionally not being able to do more than a few laps will be huge bummer for those owners. If you track, you get a car like the Z06 to own anything else lapping out there.
I agree, however, that this is a single example / data point of overheating so nothing conclusive IMO.
Yes, it is all about high school physics ;). Wasting energy (poor lines, lots of errant accel and decel) speaks to lower average speed = less average/peak energy dissipated/retained - the car simply doesn't go/accel fast/long enough to build up a lot of heat in any one particular system. However, as average speed increases the higher the engine power per unit time (= more energy into coolant/oil) and the higher the braking speeds (= more energy into the brakes as kinetic energy tracks with velocity
2).
Sure, some will track it but the Z06 has fundamentally changed from its predecessor - slushie A/T, supercharger, convertible. I've obliviously never tracked a Z06 but even then teh Googles says lots of stories of C5 and C6 Z06s running hot/overheating on hot track days (but no surprise - most all factory cars will). So, the C7 Z06 owner may be bummed, but he shouldn't be.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 28, 2014, 10:22:44 AM
C'mon, guys. Just because cars are hi-po or can be driven on the track doesn't mean they are track cars. So, how do we know if it's a track car? I have provided a cheat sheet:
Is it available in convertible form? Not a track car.
Is it available with a slushie A/T? Not a track car.
Does it have forced induction? Not a track car.
And most obviously, does any facet of it - engine, tranny, brakes - run hot or overheat on the track? Not a track car.
R8? F12? F458? M3/M4? 911 Turbo? SLS? Huracan? F-Type R? Viper? None of these are track/race cars, including the game-changing Z06. They are designed to be relatively comfortable hi-po street cars.
There are very few legit track cars available from the factory - Z/28, 911 GT3, F458 Stradale, maybe a scant few others.
Camaro and 911 are available as blown slushie automatics. As is the Exige, which is about as "track car" as you can get.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 28, 2014, 01:08:45 PM
Camaro and 911 are available as blown slushie automatics. As is the Exige, which is about as "track car" as you can get.
Z28, no.
Exige has an auto?...
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 28, 2014, 01:29:20 PM
Z28, no.
Exige has an auto?...
Sporty's positing get so tiring - the strawmanism runneth like with no other...
Correct, Z/28 has no slushie option, all variants of the 911 use a DSG, and the Exige I thought was out of production (even if not, and even if avail with a slushie AT, that it has a slushie AT is an automatic DQ from being a track car).
Does tracking void warranty?
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 28, 2014, 01:29:20 PM
Z28, no.
Exige has an auto?...
Camaro RS, SS and ZL1 come in auto drop forms.
And yea its the Evora with the IPS... Exige S has the V6 now but no IPS (auto)
All of Mercedes' "Black Series" cars are slushies including the drop top SL63 BS.
If these cars aren't designed for the track whats the point?
Yeah none of those are track cars. They're fast and cool performance cars. Can go on a track, but aren't designed to be race cars.
Track cars can't have forced induction? How many years did F1 cars used turbocharged engines? And how many open-roof race cars have been built and fielded? The Arial Atom and KTM X-Bow are pure track-day toys and neither has a roof and both come with forced induction.
This new Z06 is slow, slower in fact on the top end than the old C6 Z06
Only it's new sticky tires give it a traction advantage, but it's trap speed and top end acceleration is lack luster
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf)
The automatic Z06 trapped 127mph in the quarter, which is only 1mph faster than the old Z06 with only 505mph but much less weight
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
But look at the 0-150mph times, 17.0 seconds for the old Z06, 17.8 seconds for the new one. In fact the 17.8 time for 0-150mph is the same as the 530hp 2012 GT-R, a car with 120 less HP and 300 pounds more weight and the drag of an AWD system.
And GT-Rs have trapped as high as 126mph before as well
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review)
And the manual C7 Z06 is even slower to 150mph, at 18.1 seconds, and has the same 126mph trap speed as the old 505hp Z06
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf)
So basically
C7 Z06 auto (127mph trap, 17.8 0-150 time)
C7 Z06 manual (126mph trap 18.1 0-150 time)
C6 Z06 manual (126mph trap 17.0 0-150 time)
GT-R (124-126mph traps, 17.8 0-150 times)
Where is the progress?
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.
Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.
The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...
The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.
I'm guessing downforce.
Quote from: 565 on November 29, 2014, 09:26:46 AM
The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.
It will never happen.
Quote from: 565 on November 29, 2014, 09:26:46 AM
This new Z06 is slow, slower in fact on the top end than the old C6 Z06
Only it's new sticky tires give it a traction advantage, but it's trap speed and top end acceleration is lack luster
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z062015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-automatic.pdf)
The automatic Z06 trapped 127mph in the quarter, which is only 1mph faster than the old Z06 with only 505mph but much less weight
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test-car-and-driver2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-febuary2012.pdf)
But look at the 0-150mph times, 17.0 seconds for the old Z06, 17.8 seconds for the new one. In fact the 17.8 time for 0-150mph is the same as the 530hp 2012 GT-R, a car with 120 less HP and 300 pounds more weight and the drag of an AWD system.
And GT-Rs have trapped as high as 126mph before as well
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-nissan-gt-r-test-review)
And the manual C7 Z06 is even slower to 150mph, at 18.1 seconds, and has the same 126mph trap speed as the old 505hp Z06
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf)
So basically
C7 Z06 auto (127mph trap, 17.8 0-150 time)
C7 Z06 manual (126mph trap 18.1 0-150 time)
C6 Z06 manual (126mph trap 17.0 0-150 time)
GT-R (124-126mph traps, 17.8 0-150 times)
Where is the progress?
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.
Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.
The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...
The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.
17 flat was the absolute best time recorded by C&D by a significant margin. In other tests, it recorded the following:
2006 Full road test (published '05) - 17.5
Comparison with 2006 Viper - 17.9
Comparison with 2008 Viper - 17.5
Comparison with '07 911T and '06 F430 - 17.7
I would have expected the new model, even with the auto, to blow the old out of the water, but it's not really slower, and it is a sample of one.
Quote from: 565 on November 29, 2014, 09:26:46 AM
Where is the progress?
I might as well buy a C6 Z06 and slap some C7 Z06 super sticky road slicks on it and call it a day.
Or get a 2012-15 GT-R, slap some stickier tires on it and run with C7 Z06s all day in a straight line, all while having all weather capability and some back seats.
The silver lining is that maybe this new C7 Z06 will further drive down current C6 Z06 prices, I see some listed at around 35K...
The only new Corvette I'm excited about is the supposed mid engined C8.
Maybe the tires are so sticky that they're gluing to the road and slowing it down. :huh:
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 29, 2014, 09:32:59 AM
I'm guessing downforce.
.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 29, 2014, 10:43:51 AM
Maybe the tires are so sticky that they're gluing to the road and slowing it down. :huh:
Nailed it. Let's look at the 0-60 (3.0 sec) and 1/4 mile times (11.1 sec @ 127 mph) - those rival the GTR, F458 and 911 Turbo, bests other big names such as the R8 V10, GT3, ZR1, Viper, etc., and that 1/4 mile time blows the C6 Z06 out of the water by ~8-10 car lengths.
This is the story with race cars - big aero and big/sticky meats HUGELY affects top end - minute changes (as in fractions of a mm) in F1 aero adjustment can cut 10 mph or more from top speed. Such cars sacrifice top end performance for traction such that they can stay on the track and judging by the C7 Z06's grip (both in acceleration and road holding) there is huge traction/down force at play.
Quote from: MX793 on November 28, 2014, 08:32:52 PM
Track cars can't have forced induction? How many years did F1 cars used turbocharged engines? And how many open-roof race cars have been built and fielded? The Arial Atom and KTM X-Bow are pure track-day toys and neither has a roof and both come with forced induction.
So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?
Quote from: GoCougs on November 29, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?
Ummm at least 2... the Ariel Atom and the KTM X-Bow... they are both street legal in the UK. Caterams don't have exposed engines but they are in the same class and have been around for ~50 years. Not sure how any of those features turn a "factory" car to a "race" car or why that distinction even matters
Exige, Two Eleven, GT2/3 RS all have roll cages as well. Whats your point homie.
My point is if it's a unit body chassis and has forced induction it is not a (factory) "track" car. If you hang your hat on calling those cars "factory" cars you hand me a "W' before its time. Those are quasi races cars with a license plate. Also, lots of Caterhams run with their side cowlings off and the header and exhaust is exposed.
Despite having existing and more potent (and probably cheaper) alternatives, the Z/28 and GT3 are both fitted with N/A motors. It's for a reason, and that reason is to mitigate heat issues - running hot, overheating and inconsistent performance WRT to heat soak. The C7 Z06 is not a track car BOOM.
Top Gear seems to like it. I need to see what kind of acceleration numbers the base Z06 put up before I pass judgement on the 0-150 numbers...
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/corvette-z06-c7-first-drive-2014-11-25?cm_mmc=ExactTarget-_-email-_-TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control-_-email&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/corvette-z06-c7-first-drive-2014-11-25?cm_mmc=ExactTarget-_-email-_-TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control-_-email&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=TOP_GEAR_NLT_2014-26-11+-+Control)
Quote from: Rockraven on November 26, 2014, 11:32:56 AM
I wouldn't buy it to race. I'd buy it to cruise with the top down, drive some nice switchbacks on a sunny day, and enjoy the glorious V8 sounds. The Z06 roadster makes perfect sense to me.
I'd go open top with a basic Corvette. There are so overpowered for the road anyway, why get even more power for just cruising or hitting 6/10ths or 7/10ths? (Or in a car this capable, it may even be 4/10ths)
Yea anyone who buys something like this and doesnt track it regularly is just an asshole. But then to really really track it well you pretty much have to be a race car driver. Its becoming a little absurd.
I'm really surprised how much not faster this thing is compared to the C6 though. 150 more HP and the same quarter mile?
Yeah doing whatever you want with your own possessions makes you an asshole.
Quote from: Raza on November 29, 2014, 04:56:50 PM
I'd go open top with a basic Corvette. There are so overpowered for the road anyway, why get even more power for just cruising or hitting 6/10ths or 7/10ths? (Or in a car this capable, it may even be 4/10ths)
Looks better, better equipment, satisfaction with the performance arsenal at your command. See some arrogant twat in a Z4? Pfft. Later, poseur.
Quote from: Rockraven on November 29, 2014, 10:03:10 PM
Looks better, better equipment, satisfaction with the performance arsenal at your command. See some arrogant twat in a Z4? Pfft. Later, poseur.
Until the decrepit Corvette driver crashes it while reaching for his Metamucil. :devil:
Quote from: Raza on November 29, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
Until the decrepit Corvette driver crashes it while reaching for his Metamucil. :devil:
Or until the Vette overheats.
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 29, 2014, 09:51:11 PM
Yeah doing whatever you want with your own possessions makes you an asshole.
It does. There are kids who would love some track time in a Z06. Meanwhile the most action many will see are some out of control burnouts (and crashes) at Corvette meets.
I sincerely hope you're joking.
He has to be
Quote from: GoCougs on November 29, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
So how many factory (i.e., non race) cars have a monocoque/exo chassis, roll bar/cage and exposed engine?
The KTM X-Bow and Arial Atom are both "factory" vehicles. There are a handful of cars from the "major" manufacturers with roll cages installed from the factory as well (911 GT3 RS, Lotus Exige, Aston Martin Vantage N24).
But that's not the point. You said that no car with forced induction is a "track car", yet it doesn't get more "track car" than purpose built race car and there have been many, many purpose-built race cars, as well as "mass produced" track-day toys (Atom, X-Bow) that use forced induction and factory-backed, production-based (homologated) racing efforts in numerous GT car series that ran turbo-charged or supercharged motors.
Quote from: MX793 on November 30, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
The KTM X-Bow and Arial Atom are both "factory" vehicles. There are a handful of cars from the "major" manufacturers with roll cages installed from the factory as well (911 GT3 RS, Lotus Exige, Aston Martin Vantage N24).
But that's not the point. You said that no car with forced induction is a "track car", yet it doesn't get more "track car" than purpose built race car and there have been many, many purpose-built race cars, as well as "mass produced" track-day toys (Atom, X-Bow) that use forced induction and factory-backed, production-based (homologated) racing efforts in numerous GT car series that ran turbo-charged or supercharged motors.
I believe F1 cars are turbocharged now. Which makes it a single-seat Camry, effectively, and not appropriate for track use.
Ignoring the "and" I see. Why do you guys do this? It's not like people can't see.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 10:51:26 AM
Ignoring the "and" I see. Why do you guys do this? It's not like people can't see.
QuoteDoes it have forced induction? Not a track car.
So the discussion was/is about race cars. I see now - silly me. Well, the Z06 is not a race car, and not only because it has a supercharger, and in general, just because a car can be driven on the track doesn't make it a race car and just because a car can be driven on the street doesn't make it a street (read: factory) car.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 11:10:36 AM
So the discussion was/is about race cars. I see now - silly me. Well, the Z06 is not a race car, and not only because it has a supercharger, and in general, just because a car can be driven on the track doesn't make it a race car and just because a car can be driven on the street doesn't make it a street (read: factory) car.
In what world does "factory" become synonymous with "street" car?
Quote from: MX793 on November 30, 2014, 11:37:47 AM
In what world does "factory" become synonymous with "street" car?
In what world is a race car with a license plate still not a race car?
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 04:40:12 PM
In what world is a race car with a license plate still not a race car?
An Ariel Atom is not a race car.
Why not take a step back and give us the official definitions of street, track and race car with some sources, and then demonstrate how the C7 Z06 does not fit the bill. Because from where Im sitting,
- any car that can be registered and driven on the street = street car
- any car that can be driven on a track = track car (see Jack Baruth's positive track review of a four banger Camry SE)
- cars can fit more than 1 category
- any car that doesn't race isn't a race car
Not to mention, track cars can't have forced induction... then how do u explain the supercharged Ariel Atom, or the Formula Ford Ecoboost?
You are not really making sense here bro.
How about stop trying to corner Cougs into hypocrisy and realize how his point is pretty obvious and track specials are easy to spot. Z06 is not a track special.
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 30, 2014, 05:35:11 PM
How about stop trying to corner Cougs into hypocrisy and realize how his point is pretty obvious and track specials are easy to spot. Z06 is not a track special.
Then what are all the aero packages and carbon brakes for? Highway cruising?
Is a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta a track car?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 30, 2014, 04:59:34 PM
An Ariel Atom is not a race car.
Why not take a step back and give us the official definitions of street, track and race car with some sources, and then demonstrate how the C7 Z06 does not fit the bill. Because from where Im sitting,
- any car that can be registered and driven on the street = street car
- any car that can be driven on a track = track car (see Jack Baruth's positive track review of a four banger Camry SE)
- cars can fit more than 1 category
- any car that doesn't race isn't a race car
Not to mention, track cars can't have forced induction... then how do u explain the supercharged Ariel Atom, or the Formula Ford Ecoboost?
You are not really making sense here bro.
I've made so much sense that you guys are left with strawmanning it.
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 30, 2014, 05:57:00 PM
Is a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta a track car?
Does it overheat on a race track?
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 04:40:12 PM
In what world is a race car with a license plate still not a race car?
You can have "factory" race cars. "Factory" just means it is mass-produced and offered to the public (as opposed to a hand-built, one-off type of car like an F1 car). Arial Atoms and KTM X-Bows are very much "factory" vehicles.
Z06, just like the Viper ACR, is a track day special. The F12 is not, since it's suspension is setup for grand touring and is too soft for a track day special.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 30, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Z06, just like the Viper ACR, is a track day special. The F12 is not, since it's suspension is setup for grand touring and is too soft for a track day special.
Actually, just like the C7 Z06 the F12 has GM's multifunction/position Magnetic Ride Control, as both are hi-po GT cars not race/track cars.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Actually, just like the C7 Z06 the F12 has GM's multifunction/position Magnetic Ride Control, as both are hi-po GT cars not race/track cars.
Nice try, but suspension tuning consists of much more than shocks.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Actually, just like the C7 Z06 the F12 has GM's multifunction/position Magnetic Ride Control, as both are hi-po GT cars not race/track cars.
And wat about the Z07 Stage III aero package? Is that for grand touring too?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2014, 06:02:35 AM
And wat about the Z07 Stage III aero package? Is that for grand touring too?
Thats one option box I wouldn't check! A regular Z06 would suit me just fine....
Quote from: SVT666 on November 30, 2014, 11:19:50 PM
Nice try, but suspension tuning consists of much more than shocks.
I see - didn't realize the Z06 didn't have magnetic ride control ;).
I got my bevy of car mags this weekend - they're calling the Z06 a bargain super car, which is the exact perfect label (super cars are not track cars).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2014, 06:02:35 AM
And wat about the Z07 Stage III aero package? Is that for grand touring too?
Wings and brakes? Meh, beans and franks.
Takes more than "aero" and brakes to make a non track car a track car.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 01, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
I see - didn't realize the Z06 didn't have magnetic ride control ;).
I got my bevy of car mags this weekend - they're calling the Z06 a bargain super car, which is the exact perfect label (super cars are not track cars).
I never said it didn't. Suspension tuning is much more than shocks.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 01, 2014, 02:47:50 PM
I never said it didn't. Suspension tuning is much more than shocks.
Suspension stiffness (GT vs. Track) is very much shocks (and springs).
Quote from: SVT666 on December 01, 2014, 02:47:50 PM
I never said it didn't. Suspension tuning is much more than shocks.
Your error is in its premise. Why does a track car need dynamic suspension settings, esp. something so relatively complicated as GM's MagneRide?
MagneRide exists for street performance/livability - it's game changing tech but it's not race car tech.
The ZR1, ZL1, F12, C7 Z06 - all hugely hi-po performance cars but they are not track cars.
If the performance isnt meant to be used on the track where is it meant to be used :confused:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 02, 2014, 07:33:12 AM
If the performance isnt meant to be used on the track where is it meant to be used :confused:
Where is a Lamborghini or Ferrari or Pagani supposed to be used?
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 02, 2014, 09:48:42 AM
Where is a Lamborghini or Ferrari or Pagani supposed to be used?
Ferrari/Rambo/Pagani have more to hang their hats on than performance.
:ohyeah:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1095792_2015-chevy-corvette-z06-owner-does-massive-burnout-minutes-after-delivery-video?fbfanpage (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1095792_2015-chevy-corvette-z06-owner-does-massive-burnout-minutes-after-delivery-video?fbfanpage)
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-dynod-at-585-rear-wheel-horsepower/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-dynod-at-585-rear-wheel-horsepower/)
So that makes sense, the burn out owner is really a tuner.
Also 585 who is more than what the old ZR1 put out, usually around 520-550whp, and a lot more than what the old Z06 put out (440s-460s)
I actually have changed my mind on this new Z06. It seems indeed that the poor top end is due to some crazy aggressive aero they put on the car, and the car is making advertised power or more.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2013-chevrolet-corvette-zr12013-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-comparo.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2013-chevrolet-corvette-zr12013-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-comparo.pdf)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf (http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-manual.pdf)
So in comparison the the old ZR1 which had a better power to weight ratio, both cars get to 60 in 3.4, which means the launch is similar. From there till around 100mph the Z06 actually pulls a little and ends up 0.1 seconds ahead at 100mph. They are pretty even till 120mph when the Z06 just smacks into an aerodynamic wall.
This is most evident in the top speed where the ZR1 will go on to 205mph while the new Z06 with Z07 package tops out at just 186mph. Which means eventually even a stock 08+ C6 with a top speed of 192mph will outrun the Z07 in top end due to ridiculous aero.
C6 wont hang with the C7 Z06 on a road course
*If the C7 driver has the stones to commit to turns enough to utilize the grip of the aero
Who are we kidding though. Here is how most races between C6/C7 drivers will play out
Two Turkeys on Thanksgiving Wrecking their Corvettes in The Woodlands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzlg3oQMze4#ws)
The tuner also found the management system tends to pull timing any chance it gets.
QuoteNow that the 2016 Corvette Z06 has hit the streets, sucking our air through its blower, a few owners have complained about experiencing a power loss after back to back runs on the highway or multiple laps on the track. They rushed to point the heat soak finger at the LT4 motor in the Z06, but this doesn't seem to be the culprit here.
Sure, as the Z06 uses a top-mounted charging hardware, you could expect it to be prone to heat soak issues. When this issue usually appears, after a few consecutive full throttle runs, the heat builds up in the engine compartment, resulting in the a temperature increase for the air charge. This dramatically reduces supercharging efficiency as hot air has reduced oxygen molecule density, allowing for less fuel to be burned.
Moreover, hot intake air charge also increases the risk of detonation. The computer measures the intake air temperature both before and after the charge and when the latter is too high, it starts pulling timing to protect the engine.
However, like we said, this isn't an issue with the LT4 supercharged V8 in the 2015 Z06, or at least that's what the tuning scene is reporting.
Aftermarket world explains this is all a conservative ECU setup
Remember Vengeance Racing, the aftermarket developer that did a 1-minute burnout straight out of the showroom when picking up their Z06 last week? The crew started playing with the supercar and obviously came across the same problem.
So far, the guys only did repeated runs on the dyno, where they recorded a rather impressive 20-degree difference between the two aforementioned intake air temperatures. They also performed highway runs, but so far they've had 5 to 7 minute breaks between runs to analyze the resulting data and make changes to the ECU. They promissed to take their Z06 out again this week and perform back to back runs, so we'll have that information soon.
Once again, as Vengeance Racing explains, there doesn't appear to be any heat soak issue - such a problem wouldn't make sense anyway, not after all the testing the Z06 has been through and after GM hit the jackpot with just-as-supercharged ZR1 in the past.
In a post on Corvette Forum, the tuner explains the issue lies with the ECU - "With the OE calibration we did experience the same thing... The timing tables are EXTREMELY conservative and the ECU will pull timing for almost any situation. I am waiting for owners to complain about "tip in" as the ECU pulls a massive amount of timing when slightly touching the gas pedal"
We know it sounds convenient for a tuner to say this, but the company claims "most of the loss of power can be addressed in the ECU." Of course, this may just solve the problem reported by multiple owners, but it will also void the powertrain warranty, not exactly something you want on a $100,000 car, unless you were going to modify it in the first place.
Besides, many now ask themselves what happens once you remove those ECU boundaries. the only problem here is that certain people behave completely different once they've modded their car and subsequently complain about reliability issues - such problems would've appeared even without the tune, simply due to the change in the driving style.
The LT4 appears to have plenty of unlocked potential
Since the customizer claims the post-intercooler intake air temp is impressive, nobody is quite sure why GM engineers came up with such a conservative ECU tune, with emission regulations being the most plausible reason.
For the record, Vengeance Racing's 2015 Corvette Z06, a manual, showed 585 hp and 611 lb-ft (828 Nm) of torque at the wheels in stock condition, which are very good values. The LT4 has already proven to be a very capable engine, since the tuner has achieved a hefty output bump with less-than-serious mods. To be more specific, the V8 was taken to 660 RWHP and 663 RWTQ (899 Nm) using only a cold air intake, a smaller upper pulley and, of course, an ECU remap.
We've contacted GM to ask them about the reason behind the shy ECU setup and we'll be back with an update as soon as we have an answer.
Update: GM has responded, explaining the reasons behind the ECU setup reigning over the LT4 V8. To put it shortly, Chevy wants to make sure the Z06 meets emission targets and keeps placing those 650 ponies at the mercy of your right foot for at least 10 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), which are the intervals covered by the warranty.
To use the automaker's words: "We are confident that the vast majority of customers are going to be more than satisfied with the performance the Z06 offers in stock form. For those that want more power, they can visit an aftermarket tuner – who are not held to the same standards [emissions and warranty] as an OEM. However, this presents significant risk to the customer. An aftermarket tune voids the vehicle warranty as Chevrolet cannot possibly test or confirm the durability of their calibration; and aftermarket calibrations could cause drivability issues that are not present in the factory setting."
When asked about a possible track tune, that would unlock some extra potential for limited amounts of time, GM said they are not planning such a move.
Basically, GM acts like a father who's giving you a car - it hands you the keys and whether you want to enjoy the supercharged thrills in marathon or sprint mode, the choice is yours. It's just that you must remember to cover your dad's 100 grand pension fund in return, on the spot.
Goes to show what a risk it is in having "tuners" muck with your new car. And lol at the "smaller pulley"...
Ruh roh spaghettios
What good is 650HP if u can only achieve it one time in a lab
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 09, 2014, 02:20:56 PM
Ruh roh spaghettios
What good is 650HP if u can only achieve it one time in a lab
I think GM doesn't want to be responceble for any engine failures on Z06s that are tracked/raced/etc. They know most of the guys that'll seriously race their car will flash that ECU thus voiding the power train warranty and letting GM off the hook unlike the valve train issues C6 Z06s had! Just my .02!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 09, 2014, 02:20:56 PM
Ruh roh spaghettios
What good is 650HP if u can only achieve it one time in a lab
This has always been the downside of force induction cars, esp. supercharged. F/I is a cheap easy way to get big HP but this is the notable tradeoff.
These are not race/track cars so it's a non issue - these are street cars that see jaunts of a few seconds to maybe a few minutes, and then they get parked in the garage.
With the powdered metal rods in the LT4 it is not surprising the tune is very conservative, they are not going to take much abuse (detonation).
The LS9's titanium rods were better.
No F/I motor will take detonation though, and when that happens it's not rods that fail but rings and pistons...
Materials is not the be-all and end-all. The LT4 is by definition harder on rods - more torque, a bit more RPM - yet same as the LS9 has the 5 year/100,000 mile power train warranty. GM's not gonna spend big $$$ on an all-new motor, including more power, direction injection, pooprod VVT, and cylinder deactivation, and then give it less "better" rods.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 09, 2014, 06:34:32 PM
No F/I motor will take detonation though, and when that happens it's not rods that fail but rings and pistons...
Materials is not the be-all and end-all. The LT4 is by definition harder on rods - more torque, a bit more RPM - yet same as the LS9 has the 5 year/100,000 mile power train warranty. GM's not gonna spend big $$$ on an all-new motor, including more power, direction injection, pooprod VVT, and cylinder deactivation, and then give it less "better" rods.
No, not at all.
While it is true that ringlands often break on pistons, rods are also a weak point and are prone to failure in FI engines.
Whether bending or snapping under detonation.
Forged rotating assemblies are generally better in such applications and they will suffer without fail from some level of detonation, much better than their non-forged counterparts.
GM screwed the pooch with a ten cent change to a key, hard to say what they might or might not do to save money and forged rods are $$$.
IMO you're over complicating it. The move to such rods is probably for lower weight - there is no such thing as screwing the pooch WRT rods these days. Either way a bit of googling says plenty of other Big Motors F/I and otherwise - Viper V10, GT500 5.4L, LSA - use powdered/sintered rods, and, to win the Internets for the night, so does the the 707 hp Hellcat 6.2L (http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2014/10/supercharged-srt-hellcat-engine-fast-facts.html). In other words, since GM builds the best Detroit motors, if GM does it, it's a good thing to do.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 09, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
In other words, since GM builds the best Detroit motors, if GM does it, it's a good thing to do.
So GM's inability to keep its engines cool is good design practice :confused:
Quote from: GoCougs on December 09, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
IMO you're over complicating it. The move to such rods is probably for lower weight - there is no such thing as screwing the pooch WRT rods these days. Either way a bit of googling says plenty of other Big Motors F/I and otherwise - Viper V10, GT500 5.4L, LSA - use powdered/sintered rods, and, to win the Internets for the night, so does the the 707 hp Hellcat 6.2L (http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2014/10/supercharged-srt-hellcat-engine-fast-facts.html). In other words, since GM builds the best Detroit motors, if GM does it, it's a good thing to do.
An opinion comparing a low revving naturally aspirated viper V-10 with FI motors hasn't much merit.
The Ford GT, terminator, and later GT500 all were completely forged, the first "low hp"GT500s had the same type of rods the LT4 had. Not surprisingly they were the weak point and replaced with forged units as HP went up.
Since GM can't even match the GT500 or hellcat HP levels in a brand new design it is hardly the best detroit engine builder.
LSA isn't offered in high hp ratings like the supersnake that actually used stock ford (overbuilt) internals and is why it could never even get close to GT500 hp levels in a warrantable package.
Once again cougs you are on the failboat.
So much goes into piston rod design besides just "forged" or "not forged". Trying to boil it down to something like that is stupid.
Quote from: MrH on December 10, 2014, 06:59:19 AM
So much goes into piston rod design besides just "forged" or "not forged". Trying to boil it down to something like that is stupid.
Of course many other factors are taken into account, H-beam, cooled by oil squirters, length etc.
It is ludicrous to dismiss it is as not important.
It's not important when there are a million other things at play.
Dont obfuscate- for the most part forged rods are stronger than non forged
If non forged rods were OK the aftermarket would not go to forged rods for big builds
We can't say what's OK and not OK on this engine. We don't have a fucking clue. Let's all stop pretending we know more than hundreds of powertrain engineers at GM :huh:
Quote from: MrH on December 10, 2014, 08:43:44 AM
We can't say what's OK and not OK on this engine. We don't have a fucking clue. Let's all stop pretending we know more than hundreds of powertrain engineers at GM :huh:
Well, we certainly know more than those that created CUE.
Quote from: MrH on December 10, 2014, 08:43:44 AM
We can't say what's OK and not OK on this engine. We don't have a fucking clue. Let's all stop pretending we know more than hundreds of powertrain engineers at GM :huh:
U have (and have always had) way too much faith in OEMs. GM is one of the worst too, they are still fucking up right nah.
Quote from: MrH on December 10, 2014, 06:59:19 AM
So much goes into piston rod design besides just "forged" or "not forged". Trying to boil it down to something like that is stupid.
I'm curious what's next - plastic intake manifolds?
GM has faults like any other automaker but their motors ain't one of them.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 10, 2014, 01:15:20 PM
I'm curious what's next - plastic intake manifolds?
GM has faults like any other automaker but their motors ain't one of them.
Why not plastic pushrods...reduce the weight of all that reciprocating mass.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 10, 2014, 01:15:20 PM
I'm curious what's next - plastic intake manifolds?
GM has faults like any other automaker but their motors ain't one of them.
Not sure if serious. GM did plastic intake manifolds. They had issues with warping.
Don't know why anyone even reads his BS anymore.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 10, 2014, 08:19:32 AM
Dont obfuscate- for the most part forged rods are stronger than non forged
If non forged rods were OK the aftermarket would not go to forged rods for big builds
Aftermarket is generally much lower volumes. The tooling for forging is tried and true and widely available, which means they are going to be cheaper to tool for than powdered sintered forged stuff.
Not that, a H points out, it's as simple as that; but its a big factor.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 10, 2014, 10:07:58 AM
U have (and have always had) way too much faith in OEMs. GM is one of the worst too, they are still fucking up right nah.
All things being considered; if i have to bet on a GM motor versus one made by even the best aftermarket company; I'm going to bet on getting more out of he GM motor.
Of course they make mistakes. Both of them; but when GM messes up everybody hears about it.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 10, 2014, 03:06:43 PM
All things being considered; if i have to bet on a GM motor versus one made by even the best aftermarket company; I'm going to bet on getting more out of he GM motor.
Of course they make mistakes. Both of them; but when GM messes up everybody hears about it.
Reminds me of the C6 Z06 guys, funny thing is that when they "bet" on one it isn't GM.
Quote from: MX793 on December 10, 2014, 01:39:43 PM
Not sure if serious. GM did plastic intake manifolds. They had issues with warping.
Uh, plastic intake manifolds are common the industry over, and it's a good and right thing.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 09, 2014, 11:35:33 AM
C6 wont hang with the C7 Z06 on a road course
*If the C7 driver has the stones to commit to turns enough to utilize the grip of the aero
Who are we kidding though. Here is how most races between C6/C7 drivers will play out
Two Turkeys on Thanksgiving Wrecking their Corvettes in The Woodlands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzlg3oQMze4#ws)
Haha, that video never gets old.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 10, 2014, 04:39:19 PM
Uh, plastic intake manifolds are common the industry over, and it's a good and right thing.
Indeed they are. But GM did have significant and well-documented issues with the plastic intake manifolds on their V6s from the late '90s thru mid '00s.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_141829909608112&key=5e9e33f20bf41d5a669cc4838c2690e9&libId=6d7a1718-3005-4310-b0a6-7d58fc891006&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvetteforum.com%2Fforums%2Fc7-z06-discussion%2F3574423-it-s-not-heat-soak.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html&title=It%27s%20not%20Heat%20Soak!!%20-%20Corvette%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F20...tup-89790.html (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_141829909608112&key=5e9e33f20bf41d5a669cc4838c2690e9&libId=6d7a1718-3005-4310-b0a6-7d58fc891006&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvetteforum.com%2Fforums%2Fc7-z06-discussion%2F3574423-it-s-not-heat-soak.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html&title=It%27s%20not%20Heat%20Soak!!%20-%20Corvette%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F20...tup-89790.html)
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 05:00:05 AM
[url=http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_141829909608112&key=5e9e33f20bf41d5a669cc4838c2690e9&libId=6d7a1718-3005-4310-b0a6-7d58fc891006&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvetteforum.com%2Fforums%2Fc7-z06-discussion%2F3574423-it-s-not-heat-soak.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html&title=It%27s%20not%20Heat%20Soak]http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_141829909608112&key=5e9e33f20bf41d5a669cc4838c2690e9&libId=6d7a1718-3005-4310-b0a6-7d58fc891006&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvetteforum.com%2Fforums%2Fc7-z06-discussion%2F3574423-it-s-not-heat-soak.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html&title=It%27s%20not%20Heat%20Soak (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_141829909608112&key=5e9e33f20bf41d5a669cc4838c2690e9&libId=6d7a1718-3005-4310-b0a6-7d58fc891006&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvetteforum.com%2Fforums%2Fc7-z06-discussion%2F3574423-it-s-not-heat-soak.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html&title=It%27s%20not%20Heat%20Soak!!%20-%20Corvette%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F20...tup-89790.html)!!%20-%20Corvette%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews%2F20...tup-89790.html[/url]
Like I said earlier. GM doesn't wanna be responsible for replacing blown engines on tracked Z06s. SMH.....
Quote from: Raza on December 10, 2014, 05:22:52 PM
Haha, that video never gets old.
It's a classic, would have been even funnier if they crashed in front of a denny's because they were racing to beat the deadline for the early bird special.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 11, 2014, 09:39:21 AM
Like I said earlier. GM doesn't wanna be responsible for replacing blown engines on tracked Z06s. SMH.....
They're is a problem with the cooling of this engine if there is a 20 degree differential in intake air temps after a couple hard runs. Also, for GM to build in such a conservative tune that cuts power as soon as things get a little hot says to me they're really concerned about the longevity of this engine and it must be maxed out.
If I had just dropped 100 large on this car and then found out it only makes max power for one highway blast and it loses a bunch because GM programmed a big ignition retardation to protect an engine that is obviously not up to the task, I would be pissed.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 10:25:01 AM
If I had just dropped 100 large on this car and then found out it only makes max power for one highway blast and it loses a bunch because GM programmed a big ignition retardation to protect an engine that is obviously not up to the task, I would be pissed.
GM has been pissing of Z06 owners for well over a decade. I guess it's just standard equipment now.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 11, 2014, 09:41:08 AM
It's a classic, would have been even funnier if they crashed in front of a denny's because they were racing to beat the deadline for the early bird special.
:lol:
The Denny's was just out of shot.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 10:19:04 AM
They're is a problem with the cooling of this engine if there is a 20 degree differential in intake air temps after a couple hard runs. Also, for GM to build in such a conservative tune that cuts power as soon as things get a little hot says to me they're really concerned about the longevity of this engine and it must be maxed out.
Seems like an easy fix though.
(http://b.cdnbrm.com/images/products/med/air_intake_systems/k%26n_69_series.jpg)
:lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 10:19:04 AM
They're is a problem with the cooling of this engine if there is a 20 degree differential in intake air temps after a couple hard runs. Also, for GM to build in such a conservative tune that cuts power as soon as things get a little hot says to me they're really concerned about the longevity of this engine and it must be maxed out.
Maybe they should try and develop water-cooled pushrods. Being stuck in the centre of the engine, like they are, they must act like little furnaces without any good way of dissipating all the heat they capture.
I was over at Corvette Forums and several guys have or are about to cancel their orders for the Z06.
Seems legit. :hmm:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 11, 2014, 09:39:21 AM
Like I said earlier. GM doesn't wanna be responsible for replacing blown engines on tracked Z06s. SMH.....
What I'm surprised at is apparently a few 'SPINners don't realize that all F/I cars do this. IMO it's more that now that these mega HP cars are becoming cheaper we hear more far more stories what with regular folks and tuners buying them and mucking about...
Quote from: MX793 on December 11, 2014, 01:34:02 PM
That's what the sodium fill is for.
Obviously, it's not doing the job.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 11, 2014, 01:42:24 PM
Obviously, it's not doing the job.
OR gm cheaped out and just bought a bag of table salt and filled the rods with those.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
What I'm surprised at is apparently a few 'SPINners don't realize that all F/I cars do this. IMO it's more that now that these mega HP cars are becoming cheaper we hear more far more stories what with regular folks and tuners buying them and mucking about...
No. Not all F/I cars do this...especially at that price point.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 11, 2014, 01:44:06 PM
OR gm cheaped out and just bought a bag of table salt and filled the rods with those.
If sporty made this point, I would have thought it was serious :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
No. Not all F/I cars do this...especially at that price point.
Yes, they all do, by definition. Simply Google whatever car - WRX, ZL1, 911 Turbo, etc., - and "heat soak" and see all the examples. The most notorious example is the first gen GT500, and not incuriously, it was the first mass market high hp F/I car...
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 02:42:02 PM
Yes, they all do, by definition. Simply Google whatever car - WRX, ZL1, 911 Turbo, etc., - and "heat soak" and see all the examples. The most notorious example is the first gen GT500, and not incuriously, it was the first mass market high hp F/I car...
Heat soak is not the same as actively retarding the timing.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
What I'm surprised at is apparently a few 'SPINners don't realize that all F/I cars do this. IMO it's more that now that these mega HP cars are becoming cheaper we hear more far more stories what with regular folks and tuners buying them and mucking about...
Bullshit, I track my 1M for 30 minutes at a time at 6,000 ft above sea level. No noticeable power loss.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 10:19:04 AM
They're is a problem with the cooling of this engine if there is a 20 degree differential in intake air temps after a couple hard runs. Also, for GM to build in such a conservative tune that cuts power as soon as things get a little hot says to me they're really concerned about the longevity of this engine and it must be maxed out.
The article says the temps after the Super Charger were great so heat shouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 11, 2014, 10:25:01 AM
If I had just dropped 100 large on this car and then found out it only makes max power for one highway blast and it loses a bunch because GM programmed a big ignition retardation to protect an engine that is obviously not up to the task, I would be pissed.
I agree 1000000%
Quote from: MX793 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:13 PM
Heat soak is not the same as actively retarding the timing.
Cougs says it is.
Quote from: MX793 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:13 PM
Heat soak is not the same as actively retarding the timing.
So what are the drivers for "actively" retarding the timing?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 11, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Bullshit, I track my 1M for 30 minutes at a time at 6,000 ft above sea level. No noticeable power loss.
U clearly dont understand basic engineering principles. Cougs' twelfth hand knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your every day experiences.
I also find it quaint that Cougs denounces chassis dynos, but readily accepts the totally subjective phenomenon of "heat soak", based on forum chatter. Never mind the fact that you can find "track overheating" threads for everything from my Z to a 991. If there is an overheating problem with high performance cars it has nothing to do with F/I
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 11, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Bullshit, I track my 1M for 30 minutes at a time at 6,000 ft above sea level. No noticeable power loss.
Hmmm. The very first Google result for "BMW 1m heat soak" is Dinan's oil cooler package which is "... to keep the 'limp mode' or heat soak away during a track day".
Also, loads and loads of M5 heat soak sob stories...
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 03:13:40 PM
So what are the drivers for "actively" retarding the timing?
Why dont u buy a Z06, an OBDII datalogging program and some track time and find out?
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
Hmmm. The very first Google result for "BMW 1m heat soak" is Dinan's oil cooler package which is "... to keep the 'limp mode' or heat soak away during a track day".
Also, loads and loads of M5 heat soak sob stories...
The M5 heat soaks (i've personally gotten one to limp). The 1M doesn't. But w/e I probably just dreamed that I tracked the car.
Also, Dinan recommends the cooler mainly along with their power upgrade kits, which makes sense. I am seriously considering making my 1M a Dinan S3 1M with 440hp and getting their full kit, it's about 12K, probably around 16K or so installed.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 11, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Bullshit, I track my 1M for 30 minutes at a time at 6,000 ft above sea level. No noticeable power loss.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 11, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
Hmmm. The very first Google result for "BMW 1m heat soak" is Dinan's oil cooler package which is "... to keep the 'limp mode' or heat soak away during a track day".
Also, loads and loads of M5 heat soak sob stories...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 11, 2014, 03:20:10 PM
U clearly dont understand basic engineering principles. Cougs' twelfth hand knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your every day experiences.
GoCougs + Google = Never wrong. Enough said.
Why the hell do you guys even read his crap?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 11, 2014, 04:09:16 PM
Why the hell do you guys even read his crap?
Well, to be fair to them, they're less wrong more often then you are, so maybe they're doing It Right?
So did anyone mention yet that C&D had to test 2 Z06s because the first one broke? Sort of like their experience during the Lightening Lap with the C7....
Not good.
Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2014, 03:21:57 PM
So did anyone mention yet that C&D had to test 2 Z06s because the first one broke? Sort of like their experience during the Lightening Lap with the C7....
They said they had an Auto and a Manual on hand! One of them threw a Temp Code. Thats not breaking......
They had to park the manual because it threw a permanent code and then was slow as balls... While not granading the engine like in the Lightening lap, I believe broke is still appropriate
Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2014, 06:49:52 PM
They had to park the manual because it threw a permanent code and then was slow as balls... While not granading the engine like in the Lightening lap, I believe broke is still appropriate
I'm wondring if it has something to do with the break in procedure?
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/10/16/video-gm-lets-you-know-when-its-okay-to-redline-your-new-2014-corvette-stingray/ (http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/10/16/video-gm-lets-you-know-when-its-okay-to-redline-your-new-2014-corvette-stingray/)
I wonder if it has something to do with a shitty design
God GM is such a shit show, it's embarrassing.
Quote from: r0tor on December 12, 2014, 07:38:20 PM
I wonder if it has something to do with a shitty design
My gut feeling is that its a good design hamstrung by fearful and misunderstanding bean counters. Which is of course, a trademark of GMness.
Supercars are known to be "finicky". :hmm:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 13, 2014, 05:33:00 AM
Supercars are known to be "finicky". :hmm:
But supercars aren't known to be made by Chevrolet and based on $50,000 cars. :devil:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 12, 2014, 10:12:00 PM
My gut feeling is that its a good design hamstrung by fearful and misunderstanding bean counters. Which is of course, a trademark of GMness.
Its a sad refrain
GM thinks its German.... they dont have the luxury of perpetually fucking up, they cashed out all their reputation dollars decades ago
GM is an embarrassing shit show right now. Mary Barra must be the sacrificial lamb.
I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars :lol:
"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"
More likely: The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. :cheers:
Maybe the pushrods refused to cooperate with the cam phasing :huh:.
Quote from: MrH on December 13, 2014, 09:09:56 AM
I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars :lol:
"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"
More likely: The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. :cheers:
Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allfordmustangs.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2F2011-mustang-talk%2F133591d1309536718-tsb-tuning-mods-tsb11-07-07.pdf&ei=snCMVIugA4WyogSoqICYDQ&usg=AFQjCNEsiiTcbFS_bymVfCcosLwRK8-Beg&bvm=bv.81828268,d.cGU&cad=rja). Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.
GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).
Quote from: GoCougs on December 13, 2014, 10:22:32 AM
Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allfordmustangs.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2F2011-mustang-talk%2F133591d1309536718-tsb-tuning-mods-tsb11-07-07.pdf&ei=snCMVIugA4WyogSoqICYDQ&usg=AFQjCNEsiiTcbFS_bymVfCcosLwRK8-Beg&bvm=bv.81828268,d.cGU&cad=rja). Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.
This has nothing to do with aftermarket anything though. These are completely stock cars. GM thought they could get away with this, which tells me GM is being run by morons. No car mag is going to do a comparison test with a GT3 and not state, "The GT3 ran consistently lap after lap, while the Z06 sat in the pits after every lap so it could cool down and the ECU could reset the iginition timing". GM is so incompetent they deserve this.
QuoteGM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).
You're right. GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06. Never before has a high performance car been able to do a single highway acceleration run and then lose a shit ton of power and not be able to replicate the feat.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 13, 2014, 11:29:36 AM
This has nothing to do with aftermarket anything though. These are completely stock cars. GM thought they could get away with this, which tells me GM is being run by morons. No car mag is going to do a comparison test with a GT3 and not state, "The GT3 ran consistently lap after lap, while the Z06 sat in the pits after every lap so it could cool down and the ECU could reset the iginition timing". GM is so incompetent they deserve this.
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/porsche-911-gt3-991-fire-epidemic-coming-76971_1.jpg)
You are assuming the GT3 won't catch fire first.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 13, 2014, 10:22:32 AM
Oh, I think the bean counters definitely get involved. Enter Ford's TSB stating so much as an aftermarket exhaust will void the power train warranty on 2011+ 5.0 Mustangs (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allfordmustangs.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2F2011-mustang-talk%2F133591d1309536718-tsb-tuning-mods-tsb11-07-07.pdf&ei=snCMVIugA4WyogSoqICYDQ&usg=AFQjCNEsiiTcbFS_bymVfCcosLwRK8-Beg&bvm=bv.81828268,d.cGU&cad=rja). Bean counters I'm sure got tired of having to deal $$$ with fighting warranty abusers/violators.
GM is changing the high performance game with the Z06 (and other cars) but that doesn't mean it's a race car or can otherwise be used at the whim and fancy by 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob deciding to do whatever it is he feels like (like 1 minute burnouts with essentially 0 miles on the clock).
It doesn't say said modifications will void your warranty, it says they "could". Pretty much any automaker will have similar policies regarding modifications and voiding the warranty. I'd be willing to bet that if you went looking, you'd find that GM has issued a similar TSB for any or all of their performance cars.
Quote from: MX793 on December 13, 2014, 03:02:58 PM
It doesn't say said modifications will void your warranty, it says they "could". Pretty much any automaker will have similar policies regarding modifications and voiding the warranty. I'd be willing to bet that if you went looking, you'd find that GM has issued a similar TSB for any or all of their performance cars.
Of course all automakers do - they'd be irresponsible if they didn't - making and selling cars is a business just like any other and to compete takes spending money on the right things. The Mustang case was hilarious in its uproar in illustrating the entitlement of owners. Ford isn't going to spend money on an engine design to hedge against how an owner might modify it, and as design and engineering methods get more precise with each passing year, the less room there will be for owners to muck about with what they think is a good thing to do.
Quote from: MrH on December 13, 2014, 09:09:56 AM
I can pretty much guarantee the bean counters have absolutely nothing to do with the tuning maps of cars :lol:
"Hmmm, my spreadsheets are saying you should retard the timing an extra 3 degrees during the following conditions for maximum profitability"
More likely: The engineers couldn't pass an internal durability spec or emissions under certain conditions and did this to pass. :cheers:
Or, they predicted a higher probability of failure than was asked for, and then made a quick and dirty low cost solution.
In other words, the engineers were probably told that the new super high performance engine had to meet the same internal durability tests as the Impala; so they did what they could.
:popcorn:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/ (http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/)
Lol. God, I hope that's the case. That's awesome.
That's unfair - 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob wants his race car NOW.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 13, 2014, 07:01:32 PM
Or, they predicted a higher probability of failure than was asked for, and then made a quick and dirty low cost solution.
In other words, the engineers were probably told that the new super high performance engine had to meet the same internal durability tests as the Impala; so they did what they could.
Nah. Robust engine design is relatively easy to do, and even if it weren't, a big team of engine and power train engineers isn't going to not discover a flaw only to "fix" it with a band aid right before release.
Quote from: MrH on December 14, 2014, 09:15:46 AM
Lol. God, I hope that's the case. That's awesome.
I call shins. The Internets plainly know more about this - the Z06 has 'rods that must be protected.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 14, 2014, 09:08:38 AM
:popcorn:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/ (http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/to-overcome-the-z06s-power-robbing-ecu-just-break-it-in-says-chevy-follow-up/)
If that's all it takes, then why did GM state owners had to get an after market tune to change this? Either GM's management has no idea what their engineering team did (poor management), they didn't even ask the GM engineers what the solution was before making a public statement (poor management), or GM's engineering team sucks (poor management). Honestly, it could be all three in that company.
In any case, I have never heard of a car doing anything like this before, even cars with much more power. It's inexcusable no matter the reason.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 14, 2014, 09:21:21 AM
Nah. Robust engine design is relatively easy to do, and even if it weren't, a big team of engine and power train engineers isn't going to not discover a flaw only to "fix" it with a band aid right before release.
Hey, Cougs; this is GM. Have you guys met before?
Quote from: GoCougs on December 14, 2014, 09:16:12 AM
That's unfair - 401(k)-emptying Jim Bob wants his race car NOW.
:clap:
Quote from: SVT666 on December 14, 2014, 09:40:03 AM
In any case, I have never heard of a car doing anything like this before, even cars with much more power. It's inexcusable no matter the reason.
:confused:
Not hearing about it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Vette buyers just happen to be a very dyno happy bunch. I dont think there is ANY car that can be run 100% out of the box- most of em have suggested user-enforced redlines. If anything this is smart- GM knows its market. Let em do douchebag burnouts out of the dealership and take it to redline but keep the engine safe. 500 miles is like 2 tanks of gas.... its not that serious.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 14, 2014, 08:18:42 PM
:clap:
:confused:
Not hearing about it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Vette buyers just happen to be a very dyno happy bunch. I dont think there is ANY car that can be run 100% out of the box- most of em have suggested user-enforced redlines. If anything this is smart- GM knows its market. Let em do douchebag burnouts out of the dealership and take it to redline but keep the engine safe. 500 miles is like 2 tanks of gas.... its not that serious.
I saw an article somewhere on a Challenger Hellcat that needed 3 fans just to make conststant Dyno pulls. Apparently The Hellcat can be ordered WITHOUT a front grill to help keep it cool...
Make that 5 fans...
http://blogs.motortrend.com/1408_dyno_mighty_challenger_srt_hellcat_camaro_zl1_hit_the_rollers.html (http://blogs.motortrend.com/1408_dyno_mighty_challenger_srt_hellcat_camaro_zl1_hit_the_rollers.html)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 14, 2014, 09:14:49 PM
I saw an article somewhere on a Challenger Hellcat that needed 3 fans just to make conststant Dyno pulls. Apparently The Hellcat can be ordered WITHOUT a front grill to help keep it cool...
Not surprised. The certification dynos at Chelsea had fans on them that outweighed most of the vehicles.
It must be noted though, that none of these cars were ever designed to go flat out while sitting still.
True..
Does the normal Stingray have problems at the track as well or only the Z06?
I haven't heard any complaints from the guys on the Vette Forums.....
Excuses and explanations aside, GM screwed up. No big deal, every company does, sadly GM just likes to let the ball come around and hit them in the face more times than most companies do.
Might just chalk this one up to "never buy a new model in it's first year".
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 14, 2014, 10:14:08 PM
I haven't heard any complaints from the guys on the Vette Forums.....
Other than that one guys car that blew up, and then was given a several month run around, everyone else seems to be happy with the base car. I haven't heard of any tuning companies having issues with them either(though I don't lurk on the vette forums much).
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on December 14, 2014, 10:14:08 PM
I haven't heard any complaints from the guys on the Vette Forums.....
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 15, 2014, 07:33:21 AM
Other than that one guys car that blew up, and then was given a several month run around, everyone else seems to be happy with the base car. I haven't heard of any tuning companies having issues with them either(though I don't lurk on the vette forums much).
That's good to know. A single failure does not worry me.
The Stingray is on a shortlist of cars I might get sometime and track capability is a definite need for me. The Z06 I cannot afford so I don't really care.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 15, 2014, 09:54:01 AM
That's good to know. A single failure does not worry me.
The Stingray is on a shortlist of cars I might get sometime and track capability is a definite need for me. The Z06 I cannot afford so I don't really care.
It blew up with the guy (allegedly) going 60 MPH under part throttle. Totally blew the motor.
I'm less worried about the failure and moreso the GM dealers(usual) tactic of jacking the guy around for months and forcing early stages of court action to get his car fixed.
If you can get past the car part of ownership then your half way there, by far the worst aspect is the GM dealership network. Second to none when it comes to slime baggery. Considering the generally low morals of the car sales industry in general, it should be an extremely scary thought.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 15, 2014, 01:12:24 PM
It blew up with the guy (allegedly) going 60 MPH under part throttle. Totally blew the motor.
I'm less worried about the failure and moreso the GM dealers(usual) tactic of jacking the guy around for months and forcing early stages of court action to get his car fixed.
If you can get past the car part of ownership then your half way there, by far the worst aspect is the GM dealership network. Second to none when it comes to slime baggery. Considering the generally low morals of the car sales industry in general, it should be an extremely scary thought.
I think down here GM's rep is better. To get to sell Vettes and Camaros they have to be Caddy dealers.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
ohh Caddy dealers........ LMAO!!!!!
Sorry, I hope it is different down there.
Still, no offense, but with your past record of car ownership I'd seek out much better options or look into the viper if you want a more track capable vehicle in stock form.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 15, 2014, 01:16:38 PM
ohh Caddy dealers........ LMAO!!!!!
Sorry, I hope it is different down there.
Still, no offense, but with your past record of car ownership I'd seek out much better options or look into the viper if you want a more track capable vehicle in stock form.
None taken. I really like the current gen Vette. A used 997.2 is also a possibility.
997.2 is a strong pick
DFI Cayman S is good too.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 15, 2014, 01:14:27 PM
I think down here GM's rep is better. To get to sell Vettes and Camaros they have to be Caddy dealers.
GM's rep is fine here too if you're not a hater or jealous or don't understand how cars are designed ;).
Given Caddy's recent penchant for hi-po cars (many Fsport and -V variants), and that the Camaro and Corvette are on the premium $$$ side, makes sense.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 15, 2014, 01:58:17 PM
GM's rep is fine here too if you're not a hater or jealous or don't understand how cars are designed ;).
Hater=0.5%
Jealous=0.25%
Don't understand anything about cars=98%
GM fans=1.25%
So no, GM's rep here is not fine by your logic.
Quote from: CALL_911 on December 15, 2014, 02:00:48 PM
Hater=0.5%
Jealous=0.25%
Don't understand anything about cars=98%
GM fans=1.25%
So no, GM's rep here is not fine by your logic.
"Here" I meant the US not the 'SPIN FWIW...
That one does not know doesn't not mean one does not understand. Plenty know they know nothing (or don't care) about design, which is understanding. "Don't understand" is stating they understand and then demonstrating that they don't, like this BS business about "powered" rods.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 15, 2014, 02:11:01 PM
"Here" I meant the US not the 'SPIN FWIW...
Yea I get that
Quote from: GoCougs on December 15, 2014, 02:11:01 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
:rolleyes:
Nothing more pre-teen girl-ish than making a point to tell someone you are ignoring them. :devil:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 16, 2014, 06:28:42 AM
Nothing more pre-teen girl-ish than making a point to tell someone you are ignoring them. :devil:
ohh come on, you know he likes it.
They should just fill the whole engine compartment with water.
Then after a track day you could hop in your Corvette Hot Tub™ and enjoy the sunset.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 16, 2014, 06:28:42 AM
Nothing more pre-teen girl-ish than making a point to tell someone you are ignoring them. :devil:
Especially when she's not actually ignoring them ;).
:ohyeah:
http://jalopnik.com/chevrolet-corvette-stingray-is-it-as-good-as-we-first-1671897411 (http://jalopnik.com/chevrolet-corvette-stingray-is-it-as-good-as-we-first-1671897411)
Sounds like from C&D's long term tester you need to have a full time tow truck on stand by for the C7... 2nd engine and now 2nd starter...
No no, that's normal. That's to protect the transmission.
No surprises really, gm is a joke. With such incompetent people running the show it's amazing most the stuff turns out as well as it does.
The hits keep coming
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1096096_first-2015-chevy-corvette-z06-engine-destroyed-with-just-891-miles-on-the-clock?kinja (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1096096_first-2015-chevy-corvette-z06-engine-destroyed-with-just-891-miles-on-the-clock?kinja)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2014, 05:49:06 PM
The hits keep coming
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1096096_first-2015-chevy-corvette-z06-engine-destroyed-with-just-891-miles-on-the-clock?kinja (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1096096_first-2015-chevy-corvette-z06-engine-destroyed-with-just-891-miles-on-the-clock?kinja)
In probably related news (but nobody seems to care), Chevy Sparks are having engine failures left and right. Maybe they have the same valves as a Z06.
Seems fishy. Happened today yet GM has already called it as covered by warranty? I also had to 'lol' that he makes payments on it :facepalm:
Was also doing "a pull"
Who knows how many he'd already done the first 800 miles.
"Pull" sounds like code for shifting from 2nd to 1st when he meant to grab 3rd. Unlike bearings or pistons the valve train doesn't experience that much more stress during a "pull" other than from accelerating quicker. However, grabbing 1st when meaning to grab 3rd can definitely over speed the engine which can definitely pop valve train components.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2014, 07:11:44 PM
Seems fishy. Happened today yet GM has already called it as covered by warranty? I also had to 'lol' that he makes payments on it :facepalm:
No kidding. There are a ton of hoops to jump through to get a new engine under warranty at Volvo. In my time working for Volvo of Dallas, we've replaced two 3.2 I6s for well documented oil consumption. First, the complaint has to be documented with the tech line, followed by the first correction. Of course, something like this is...different, but there will still be hoops to jump through.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2014, 07:35:35 PM
"Pull" sounds like code for shifting from 2nd to 1st when he meant to grab 3rd. Unlike bearings or pistons the valve train doesn't experience that much more stress during a "pull" other than from accelerating quicker. However, grabbing 1st when meaning to grab 3rd can definitely over speed the engine which can definitely pop valve train components.
Shifting from 2nd at redline to 1st gear would take some incredible skill to get it to synchronize
The guy probably has been doing a constant burnout for 800miles.
Probably missed a shift and blew the motor.
I bet he's a ford guy with a bunch of money and just bought one to blew up.
Probably just a hit piece by an anti GM source.
Etc, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of excuses.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 30, 2014, 07:44:14 PM
The guy probably has been doing a constant burnout for 800miles.
I think that's the obvious answer. More believable than GM engineers just suddenly forgot what they're doing.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2014, 08:03:43 PM
I think that's the obvious answer. More believable than GM engineers just suddenly forgot what they're doing.
Forget? Who says they EVER knew what they were doing?
I love how some people forget that all car companies make mistakes when it comes time to criticize "their" brand.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 30, 2014, 07:44:14 PM
The guy probably has been doing a constant burnout for 800miles.
Not possible. After just one burnout the computer goes into Limp Mode.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 30, 2014, 09:08:33 PM
I love how some people forget that all car companies make mistakes when it comes time to criticize "their" brand.
Most of these problems are from people who can't even wait 1,500 miles before they abuse the car. So sorry for being skeptical.
Quote from: CJ on December 30, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
No kidding. There are a ton of hoops to jump through to get a new engine under warranty at Volvo. In my time working for Volvo of Dallas, we've replaced two 3.2 I6s for well documented oil consumption. First, the complaint has to be documented with the tech line, followed by the first correction. Of course, something like this is...different, but there will still be hoops to jump through.
Makes GM out as pretty darn casual with its most expensive vehicle, esp. one so ripe for abuse.
Either this has happened to many cars and GM knows there's a big problem or the story just doesn't wash. I have no choice but to lean toward the latter until there is further info.
Or, I'll add, the diagnostic info from the car was sent to GM, and it contained enough info for them to exactly pinpoint it as a warranty issue (also highly unlikely but I guess technically possible).
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 30, 2014, 10:23:18 PM
Most of these problems are from people who can't even wait 1,500 miles before they abuse the car. So sorry for being skeptical.
Are corvette owners the only ones that do that? Doesn't EVERY rich idiot who buys a performance car do that? Why the hell aren't all cars having such wide spread(relatively) and catastrophic problems?
It's not unheard of for a car company(or any company) to screw up, it's happened before, it will happen again and I"m pretty sure it's happening now with the corvette.
Quote from: CJ on December 30, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
No kidding. There are a ton of hoops to jump through to get a new engine under warranty at Volvo. In my time working for Volvo of Dallas, we've replaced two 3.2 I6s for well documented oil consumption. First, the complaint has to be documented with the tech line, followed by the first correction. Of course, something like this is...different, but there will still be hoops to jump through.
Oil consumption is not the same as a grenaded engine. You still have a driving, working car when you have oil consumption issues. Also, all automakers have a lengthy process one must go through when making a warranty claim for oil consumption. A co-worker had a Chrysler van that was consuming oil and they made him go through a process that required driving several thousand miles to determine the exact consumption rate, and then evaluated whether the consumption rate exceeded the "norm" (which is much higher than most realize).
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 07:28:54 AM
It's not unheard of for a car company(or any company) to screw up, it's happened before, it will happen again and I"m pretty sure it's happening now with the corvette.
True. One also cannot rule out that it isn't a supplier issue rather than a design issue. Like Nissan's oil consumption issues on the QR engine family that result from a supplier providing bad or out of spec rings.
Quote from: MX793 on December 31, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
True. One also cannot rule out that it isn't a supplier issue rather than a design issue. Like Nissan's oil consumption issues on the QR engine family that result from a supplier providing bad or out of spec rings.
I'm not looking to find the problem, and whether it's a design issue or part issue doesn't matter. The point is still the same and relevant. GM's biggest problem with things like this isn't the problem itself(whatever and wherever it originated) but in how they handle it.
They have a long history of handling these types of things poorly, and yes other car companies do as well. Just seems GM really takes it to a whole new level when it comes to incompetence and management of post production issues.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 07:28:54 AM
Are corvette owners the only ones that do that? Doesn't EVERY rich idiot who buys a performance car do that? Why the hell aren't all cars having such wide spread(relatively) and catastrophic problems?
It's not unheard of for a car company(or any company) to screw up, it's happened before, it will happen again and I"m pretty sure it's happening now with the corvette.
Haven't you seen all the Corvette street racing wreck videos? 'Vette owners are a special kind of stupid. :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 31, 2014, 08:47:38 AM
I'm not looking to find the problem, and whether it's a design issue or part issue doesn't matter. The point is still the same and relevant. GM's biggest problem with things like this isn't the problem itself(whatever and wherever it originated) but in how they handle it.
They have a long history of handling these types of things poorly, and yes other car companies do as well. Just seems GM really takes it to a whole new level when it comes to incompetence and management of post production issues.
IDK. For a while German cars were pretty awful reliability wise, and nobody complained. In fact, people keep going back for more of those very same cars, working around all the flaws, despite them not being that good IMO. A lot of it comes down to the owners too and what they will accept.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 12:49:26 PM
IDK. For a while German cars were pretty awful reliability wise, and nobody complained. In fact, people keep going back for more of those very same cars, working around all the flaws, despite them not being that good IMO. A lot of it comes down to the owners too and what they will accept.
:confused:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 12:49:26 PM
IDK. For a while German cars were pretty awful reliability wise, and nobody complained. In fact, people keep going back for more of those very same cars, working around all the flaws, despite them not being that good IMO. A lot of it comes down to the owners too and what they will accept.
Affluent owners will put up with a lot if the badge is prestigious enough. The local BMW dealer has a 5 week waiting list to get in for repair work.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 31, 2014, 09:01:15 AM
Haven't you seen all the Corvette street racing wreck videos? 'Vette owners are a special kind of stupid. :lol:
The guy who can fork over ~$100k (or, fork over the payment :facepalm:) for a new Corvette is highly highly unlikely to be That Guy.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 31, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
Affluent owners will put up with a lot if the badge is prestigious enough. The local BMW dealer has a 5 week waiting list to get in for repair work.
They probably decorate the waiting rooms like night clubs.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 31, 2014, 03:54:03 PM
The guy who can fork over ~$100k (or, fork over the payment :facepalm:) for a new Corvette is highly highly unlikely to be That Guy.
The guy who can fork over $100K cash for a Corvette legitimately probably isn't. U hit the nail on the head with that HELOC baller meme.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2014, 12:49:26 PM
IDK. For a while German cars were pretty awful reliability wise, and nobody complained. In fact, people keep going back for more of those very same cars, working around all the flaws, despite them not being that good IMO. A lot of it comes down to the owners too and what they will accept.
Thats true! Thats why the LS400 (and NSX) was such a game changer!
GM sent the guy a new engine for his Z06. He received it today. I wasn't expecting GM to respond so quickly! they also gave him the choice of letting them repair his original engine so his car wouldn't have differant serial numbers just in case he wanted to keep the car "Numbers Matching"....
Autoblog retards spreading C8 mid engine rumors already. And saying it could be a 2017 model. The C7 just came out! They're not moving on to the next generation in 3 years.
It won't be a next gen. They will sell he mid engine ZR1 alongside the stingray and z06
Quote from: HotRodPilot on January 08, 2015, 11:22:08 PM
It won't be a next gen. They will sell he mid engine ZR1 alongside the stingray and z06
There will never be a mid-engine Corvette.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 08, 2015, 11:54:53 PM
There will never be a mid-engine Corvette.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/exclusive-mid-engine-c8-chevrolet-corvette-first-photos-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/exclusive-mid-engine-c8-chevrolet-corvette-first-photos-news)
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/c8-chevrolet-corvette-exclusive-what-to-expect-from-the-heart-stopping-mid-engined-zora-feature (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/c8-chevrolet-corvette-exclusive-what-to-expect-from-the-heart-stopping-mid-engined-zora-feature)
Could be a Cadillac halo car
Quote from: 68_427 on January 09, 2015, 12:42:55 AM
Could be a Cadillac halo car
I think that's much more likely.
There have been talks of a mid engine Vette since the C2
ILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT FOR SALE.
Mid engine corvette wouldn't be a corvette. That's like a front engine fwd 911.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 09, 2015, 08:29:45 AM
Mid engine corvette wouldn't be a corvette. That's like a front engine fwd 911.
Hey, don't give them any ideas!
Quote from: Lebowski on January 09, 2015, 08:29:45 AM
Mid engine corvette wouldn't be a corvette. That's like a front engine fwd 911.
Exactly. I've always said that. I see people say "I want a mid engine Corvette", and my response has always been, "Then you don't want a Corvette, you want a Ferrari."
(http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2017-Mid-Engined-Chevrolet-Corvette-1131-876x535.jpg)
It seems a friend managed to rent a C6 Z06 for the upcoming track days. I'll see if I can get a few laps.
They should go completely historically crazy and go mid-engine rotary power
Bring back something akin to the C6 Z06 - N/A hp only with a 7L version of the new LT1 with 550 - 575 hp - IMO it would do supremely. There are lots of historical monickers to choose from - L88 would be awesome!
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2015, 07:19:55 PM
Bring back something akin to the C6 Z06 - N/A hp only with a 7L version of the new LT1 with 550 - 575 hp - IMO it would do supremely. There are lots of historical monickers to choose from - L88 would be awesome!
I think the LS7 will be the last of the big, NA motors from GM. Too hard to meet emissions without going forced induction. There's a reason the new Z06 went supercharged.
Forget what article I read it in but someone said automakers are having a last days in Rome moment
Sounds about right
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2015, 08:14:43 PM
I think the LS7 will be the last of the big, NA motors from GM. Too hard to meet emissions without going forced induction. There's a reason the new Z06 went supercharged.
I'm not so sure I see the emissions angle. Automakers have definitely been transitioning to smaller cylinders in moderate part because it's easier control combustion esp. as CRs rise, but GM sure spent a bunch of $$$ on the new LT1. Plus, what with DI and pooprod VVT, there have been a lot of advances in engine tech since the debut of the LS7 10 years ago. I think it's more the matter of chasing big HP stats rather than driving experience. I think Ford has it right in going for the GT350 vs. the GT500, at least initially. The GT500 wasn't a very good car, and it wasn't all that usable, all in the name of big stats.
It wasn't a very track car, but it great in every day life. Do you just make shit up as you type, or do you come up with it before you hit reply?
Nah, I just recite Reality. The GT500 wasn't terrible but it wasn't very good. It made a lot of noise, had big looks, and had big acceleration at 100+ mph but other than that there just wasn't a whole lot there. The ZL1 on the other hand, and to a lesser extent the Hellcat Challenger, are notably better cars - better handling, better ride, better brakes, more comfortable, and about as quick 0-legal speeds.
Considering a 2015 Mustang GT will outlap a Hellcat on a roadcoarse, I really doubt it would hang with a GT500.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2015, 10:36:23 AM
Nah, I just recite Reality. The GT500 wasn't terrible but it wasn't very good. It made a lot of noise, had big looks, and had big acceleration at 100+ mph but other than that there just wasn't a whole lot there. The ZL1 on the other hand, and to a lesser extent the Hellcat Challenger, are notably better cars - better handling, better ride, better brakes, more comfortable, and about as quick 0-legal speeds.
The GT500 was faster than the ZL1 on certain tracks, neck and neck on other tracks, and then slower on other tracks. The GT500's brakes were the only problem that car had for track duty, but it wasn't a track car. The Hellcat is fast in a straight line, but that's it. You just keep making stuff up Cougs. Your internetry is really suffering lately.
Quote from: MX793 on January 12, 2015, 10:55:25 AM
Considering a 2015 Mustang GT will outlap a Hellcat on a roadcoarse, I really doubt it would hang with a GT500.
I was referring to my original "usable" claim, meaning, on the street. Handling is more than just grip.
2:41.3 :rockon:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16)
And before 666 chimes in about the timing pulls/heat issuses with the LT4 here's the guy that got his replacment engine from GM after he blew his origanal motor at 851 miles. He put the proper break in miles on the car and had no problems during a weekend track event. :cheers:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html)
ZOMG a C7 managed not to expl0de!!!! Should be a national holiday.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2015, 04:37:58 PM
And before 666 chimes in about the timing pulls/heat issuses with the LT4 here's the guy that got his replacment engine from GM after he blew his origanal motor at 851 miles. He put the proper break in miles on the car and had no problems during a weekend track event. :cheers:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html)
What a victory, he completed one track event in a 100k dollar car on it's second motor within a few thousand miles.
Was gm there at the finish line with a press crew and champagne?
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2015, 04:37:58 PM
And before 666 chimes in about the timing pulls/heat issuses with the LT4 here's the guy that got his replacment engine from GM after he blew his origanal motor at 851 miles. He put the proper break in miles on the car and had no problems during a weekend track event. :cheers:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3589821-lawdogg149-s-road-atlanta-review.html)
I guess some don't realize that what with modern engine management it's possible for the manufacturer to program in such a thing.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2015, 04:31:30 PM
2:41.3 :rockon:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16)
Ha ha, beat the Porsche 918 too.
Oh man, you can feel that vague front and reverse bite just watching it. Dude is one hell of a driver.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2015, 06:18:12 PM
Ha ha, beat the Porsche 918 too.
The 918 had a lowly auto journalist, while the Z06 had a Chevy test driver.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 12, 2015, 04:31:30 PM
2:41.3 :rockon:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a24695/video-2015-corvette-z06-obliterates-virginia-international-raceway/?click=_hpTrnsprtr_16)
Heavier weight oil... Hmm... Guess it would have been pretty bad if GM themselves blew up a C7
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
I guess some don't realize that what with modern engine management it's possible for the manufacturer to program in such a thing.
Haters gonna hate....... :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
The 918 had a lowly auto journalist, while the Z06 had a Chevy test driver.
The German one also cost a few coins more than the Chevy. I can't wait to see if the new Ford GT can outrun the Z06.
No denying how great the Z06 is. It's tremendously fast, if not one of the fastest cars on the planet, and for relatively affordable money, but put both cars on that track on the same day with the same driver and I am willing to bet the 918 beats the Z06 quite easily.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2015, 06:52:41 AM
Haters gonna hate....... :lol:
Apologists will keep making excuses. :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2015, 07:47:13 AM
No denying how great the Z06 is. It's tremendously fast, if not one of the fastest cars on the planet, and for relatively affordable money, but put both cars on that track on the same day with the same driver and I am willing to bet the 918 beats the Z06 quite easily.
Buy both and find out.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2015, 06:55:09 AM
The German one also cost a few coins more than the Chevy. I can't wait to see if the new Ford GT can outrun the Z06.
You get what you pay for.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 13, 2015, 10:09:18 AM
You get what you pay for.
id be pissed if my million dollar Super Car got outran by a 100k Chevy. :hammerhead:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2015, 10:49:13 AM
id be pissed if my million dollar Super Car got outran by a 100k Chevy. :hammerhead:
Depends If I'm racing that 100K supercar on the run when the motor blew.
Those are apparently pretty good odds.
Still, I could probably take 2 K and and build a bathtub to outrun either of them.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 13, 2015, 10:53:41 AM
Depends If I'm racing that 100K supercar on the run when the motor blew.
Those are apparently pretty good odds.
Still, I could probably take 2 K and and build a bathtub to outrun either of them.
Your Million dollar Porsche wouldn't make the race cuz it would burn itself to a crisp at the gas pump. :partyon:
And even after it's burnt to a crisp it would still be worth more than the chevy.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 13, 2015, 12:53:31 PM
Your Million dollar Porsche wouldn't make the race cuz it would burn itself to a crisp at the gas pump. :partyon:
:clap:
Ha ha toaster strudel!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 12, 2015, 05:26:57 PM
What a victory, he completed one track event in a 100k dollar car on it's second motor within a few thousand miles.
Was gm there at the finish line with a press crew and champagne?
:lol:
Good work guys :lol:
Came across this over at the Corvette forum...got a chuckle out of it.
(http://www.corvetteforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2015-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-LT4-Engine-Blown-Death-Slider.jpg)
Chevy Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter gives an answer to the Z06 overheating problems here. :confused:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/3610770-answered-car-overheating-issues-on-track.html)
That doesn't address the ECU programming at all.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 23, 2015, 10:38:43 PM
That doesn't address the ECU programming at all.
Good thing he said "addressed the heating problems", then.
I think the overheating problems are pretty minor compared to the ECU problem.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 23, 2015, 11:07:05 PM
I think the overheating problems are pretty minor compared to the ECU problem.
Okay well email him asking for an answer or something. His explanation of the overheating was good, not sure why you're hatin on him for that.
So IOW there is no overheating or ECU "problem".
Well, there is with 8AT I guess, but that's not a "problem". ALL slushie ATs will overheat fairly quickly by definition.
They design for 86 deg F???? Good god what a bunch of incompetent Nimrods. He pretty much also explains they engineer the car for the 99% of owners who do not track the car, not the 1% that does... You know despite developing a Z07 appearance package for down force on race tracks and all that other hooplah.
Pathetic sports car engineering. Plain and simple.
Lol the hate. Come on guys.
86F is kind of BS though, not unreasonable for tracks to reach temps way higher than ambient when it's sunny. Track temps at the Malaysian Moto GP track were above 130F on Monday.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 09:35:26 AM
Lol the hate. Come on guys.
86F is kind of BS though, not unreasonable for tracks to reach temps way higher than ambient when it's sunny. Track temps at the Malaysian Moto GP track were above 130F on Monday.
I'd like to know what temperature other companies design for.
At least half of the US sees ambient temps of 86 or more on a semi regular basis in the summer. Was this designed for use in Alaska? Sorry, that's just plain under engineering and poor design requirement/parameter selection.
The car is under engineered. Plain and simple.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 09:35:26 AM
Lol the hate. Come on guys.
86F is kind of BS though, not unreasonable for tracks to reach temps way higher than ambient when it's sunny. Track temps at the Malaysian Moto GP track were above 130F on Monday.
So which is it? We're haters, or we expect a car company to engineer the car to be able to do what it's competitors can do? You say so yourself that 86F is a bit ridiculous.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 24, 2015, 10:01:01 AM
So which is it? We're haters, or we expect a car company to engineer the car to be able to do what it's competitors can do? You say so yourself that 86F is a bit ridiculous.
Both. The level of emotional investment in this faux pas is a couple shades past ridiculous. GM dun goofed. So wat? The people screaming the loudest about this injustice are never going to buy this car. And I'm sure the aftermarket will swoop in for solutions to GM's follies just as they have for decades.
Like I said GM put 100lb of shit in a 5lb bag. If u really want a track car u will buy a track car. An old C5 with big wheels/tires/brakes and mild suspension/engine work will run similar lap times for like 1/3 the price.
Haters keep hating.
Look, a GM mouthpiece came out and clearly stated that the company that writes his checks didn't do anything wrong. what the hell more do you people need for proof?
Quote from: MX793 on February 24, 2015, 09:42:09 AM
At least half of the US sees ambient temps of 86 or more on a semi regular basis in the summer. Was this designed for use in Alaska? Sorry, that's just plain under engineering and poor design requirement/parameter selection.
Only if it's a lower design parameter than other manufacturers.
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 09:40:30 AM
I'd like to know what temperature other companies design for.
Well for the VW Phaeton, Piëch demanded that it be able to drive at 155mph all day, at 122F, while maintaining an interior temperature of 72F. That should be put into Marriam Webster as the definition of over engineering. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Both. The level of emotional investment in this faux pas is a couple shades past ridiculous. GM dun goofed. So wat? The people screaming the loudest about this injustice are never going to buy this car. And I'm sure the aftermarket will swoop in for solutions to GM's follies just as they have for decades.
Like I said GM put 100lb of shit in a 5lb bag. If u really want a track car u will buy a track car. An old C5 with big wheels/tires/brakes and mild suspension/engine work will run similar lap times for like 1/3 the price.
What relevance is the weight of the bag compared to the weight of the contents, unless you are specifically considering the material and construction of the bag? With the information given, one cannot determine whether or not the bag is a suitable container. In this case, where the goal is to overflow a container with feces, it would be much more appropriate to specify units of volume. For example: "GM put ten-gallons of shit in a five-gallon bucket."
This issue is very good education for haters and fans alike. Cars are designed to a spec and will be ever more so as competition and design/manufacturing technology advances.
So Z06s are flying off the shelf like never before, and that is the goal.
Quote from: Galaxy on February 24, 2015, 10:50:06 AM
Well for the VW Phaeton, Piëch demanded that it be able to drive at 155mph all day, at 122F, while maintaining an interior temperature of 72F. That should be put into Marriam Webster as the definition of over engineering. :lol:
VW should have put that "over engineering" into making the electronics of the car actually somewhat reliable rather into a spec that will benefit precisely 0% of buyers.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 24, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
What relevance is the weight of the bag compared to the weight of the contents, unless you are specifically considering the material and construction of the bag? With the information given, one cannot determine whether or not the bag is a suitable container. In this case, where the goal is to overflow a container with feces, it would be much more appropriate to specify units of volume. For example: "GM put ten-gallons of shit in a five-gallon bucket."
lol
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Both. The level of emotional investment in this faux pas is a couple shades past ridiculous. GM dun goofed. So wat? The people screaming the loudest about this injustice are never going to buy this car. And I'm sure the aftermarket will swoop in for solutions to GM's follies just as they have for decades.
Like I said GM put 100lb of shit in a 5lb bag. If u really want a track car u will buy a track car. An old C5 with big wheels/tires/brakes and mild suspension/engine work will run similar lap times for like 1/3 the price.
Actually the people screaming the loudest are the people that bought the car and found out their new car only makes the advertised horsepower once a day.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 24, 2015, 11:49:25 AM
This issue is very good education for haters and fans alike. Cars are designed to a spec and will be ever more so as competition and design/manufacturing technology advances.
So Z06s are flying off the shelf like never before, and that is the goal.
Yah the Z06 is a marketing exercise and a prosthetic penis for most of the folks buying it. Folks who can legit afford six figure toys who want to do serious track days regularly have better options IMO. "Track day specials" are past the point of absurdity IMO. This whole overheating debacle is proof of that.
There are only a few legit "track day specials" that one can buy factory new and the Z06 isn't one of them (no F/I car is).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 01:17:46 PM
Yah the Z06 is a marketing exercise and a prosthetic penis for most of the folks buying it. Folks who can legit afford six figure toys who want to do serious track days regularly have better options IMO. "Track day specials" are past the point of absurdity IMO. This whole overheating debacle is proof of that.
Why buy a Z07 if your not going to a track? Oh that's right, to be a poser - which is what the car is in the realm of real sports cars.
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 01:37:11 PM
Why buy a Z07 if your not going to a track? Oh that's right, to be a poser - which is what the car is in the realm of real sports cars.
Sports cars are not track cars. In terms of acceleration, grip and handling, you have to get super aggro (Z/28, GT3) to get better than a Z06.
Anyone who spends any material amount of time at the track is dumping money into a project car - they aren't buying a factory new car (ergo, only a couple of legit track cars are available new).
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 01:37:11 PM
Why buy a Z07 if your not going to a track? Oh that's right, to be a poser - which is what the car is in the realm of real sports cars.
Cars cant be posers, only people can. If the goal is low track times or eye peeling performance there are a truckload of Corvettes on the road better suited for the job IMO. Especially since the idea of GM covering any kind of track related equipment failure under warranty is a pipe dream
No, like I said this thing, like the 08-09 GT-Rs that had the warranty voiding launch control, are just marketing exercises and dick extenders. They generate the press times, but they are either painfully boring to drive at less than 9.9/10ths (GT-R) or underengineered and self-protecting to the point that with enough laps you will be at the pace of a base C7 on slicks (Z06/7). Whats the point?
I think you guys are going overboard on the 86F comment.
He said it is designed to run at full tilt at 86F for a full tank of gas (essentially indefinitely). It isn't like the car cannot be used at higher temps, but the risk of overheating goes up.
I would be curious about other companies' approaches. To me, when putting out a performance car the above seems reasonable. :huh:
I think the C7 overheating has simply become a meme on this forum, for better or worse. Which is weird because up until the C7 the Vette seemed like a pretty well respected car on this forum. It is becoming annoying to read anything about the Vette now though because of the trolling on this topic.
Actually, a hi-po car can burn through a full tank of gas in well less than an hour at full tilt. Add in safety margin to prevent running out of gas on the track and say a 15 gallon tank you're probably looking at ~30 minutes.
Oh, and haters love to hate.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 24, 2015, 02:26:12 PM
I think you guys are going overboard on the 86F comment.
He said it is designed to run at full tilt at 86F for a full tank of gas (essentially indefinitely). It isn't like the car cannot be used at higher temps, but the risk of overheating goes up.
I would be curious about other companies' approaches. To me, when putting out a performance car the above seems reasonable. :huh:
I think the C7 overheating has simply become a meme on this forum, for better or worse. Which is weird because up until the C7 the Vette seemed like a pretty well respected car on this forum. It is becoming annoying to read anything about the Vette now though because of the trolling on this topic.
Well the previous cars didn't have these problems. Or they were better covered up. In any case I still like the C7.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 02:19:18 PM
Cars cant be posers, only people can. If the goal is low track times or eye peeling performance there are a truckload of Corvettes on the road better suited for the job IMO. Especially since the idea of GM covering any kind of track related equipment failure under warranty is a pipe dream
No, like I said this thing, like the 08-09 GT-Rs that had the warranty voiding launch control, are just marketing exercises and dick extenders. They generate the press times, but they are either painfully boring to drive at less than 9.9/10ths (GT-R) or underengineered and self-protecting to the point that with enough laps you will be at the pace of a base C7 on slicks (Z06/7). Whats the point?
+1
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 02:42:48 PM
Well the previous cars didn't have these problems. Or they were better covered up. In any case I still like the C7.
The previous cars weren't as capable - more power, better grip, traction, down force, etc. = more power into the track = more heat.
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 10:31:53 AM
Only if it's a lower design parameter than other manufacturers.
I asked a co-worker, who used to work at Ford and whose father was a Ford engine/powertrain engineer (for most if not all of his career) what Ford typically designed/tested to. He said when he was there, Ford would design their vehicles to operate at somewhere around 110F (he couldn't remember the exact number, but knew it was no lower than 105F). They'd test them by running the engine under moderate to heavy load in those conditions to ensure nothing overheated either in a temperature chamber on a dyno or by driving a laden vehicle up a long grade at a desert test center.
From my own experience designing outdoor equipment, you design your equipment to run normally at all temperatures that may be typically encountered wherever it might be used. That's just plain good sense. So for a product intended for use anywhere in the US, that means it has to work everywhere from an Arizona summer to an Alaskan winter. Designing for 86F when much, if not most, of the region you're selling that product in regularly sees hotter than that is poor engineering.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 24, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
Sports cars are not track cars. In terms of acceleration, grip and handling, you have to get super aggro (Z/28, GT3) to get better than a Z06.
Anyone who spends any material amount of time at the track is dumping money into a project car - they aren't buying a factory new car (ergo, only a couple of legit track cars are available new).
Why offer a Z07 package then with shit tons of down force and drag if it shouldn't be put on a track?
Why be a corvette fanboi and say the corvette is such a bargain because its tons cheaper then a GT3 or GT-R when it can't pull the same duty a well engineered car can?
And since you mentioned GT3, it was made to be a track car.
Quote from: MX793 on February 24, 2015, 03:20:40 PM
I asked a co-worker, who used to work at Ford and whose father was a Ford engine/powertrain engineer (for most if not all of his career) what Ford typically designed/tested to. He said when he was there, Ford would design their vehicles to operate at somewhere around 110F (he couldn't remember the exact number, but knew it was no lower than 105F). They'd test them by running the engine under moderate to heavy load in those conditions to ensure nothing overheated either in a temperature chamber on a dyno or by driving a laden vehicle up a long grade at a desert test center.
Fits with the testing done on the 3.5 EcoBoost.
The Corvette is an American Icon. I don't see the issue with the C7, the corvette has had a long history of winning on the track and breaking on the street. This ECU thing is just what the C7 boys have to put up with, while the C6 head dropped valves and the C5 had bad springs(valve).
It's just another step in a long running tradition.
Also, it's 86 degrees, driven by a professional driver. Let's stop pretending we can keep a car as capable as a Z06 on boil like a pro can.
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 04:16:29 PM
Also, it's 86 degrees, driven by a professional driver. Let's stop pretending we can keep a car as capable as a Z06 on boil like a pro can.
For over an hour.
15 minutes of go carting is enough to wear me out.
Quote from: MX793 on February 24, 2015, 03:20:40 PM
I asked a co-worker, who used to work at Ford and whose father was a Ford engine/powertrain engineer (for most if not all of his career) what Ford typically designed/tested to. He said when he was there, Ford would design their vehicles to operate at somewhere around 110F (he couldn't remember the exact number, but knew it was no lower than 105F). They'd test them by running the engine under moderate to heavy load in those conditions to ensure nothing overheated either in a temperature chamber on a dyno or by driving a laden vehicle up a long grade at a desert test center.
From my own experience designing outdoor equipment, you design your equipment to run normally at all temperatures that may be typically encountered wherever it might be used. That's just plain good sense. So for a product intended for use anywhere in the US, that means it has to work everywhere from an Arizona summer to an Alaskan winter. Designing for 86F when much, if not most, of the region you're selling that product in regularly sees hotter than that is poor engineering.
Those tests are a little bit different, and may have been a part of GM's testing as well. The 86F was the track day testing temperature goal.
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
For over an hour.
15 minutes of go carting is enough to wear me out.
:lol: Exactly.
One lap of the Ring had me sweaty and needing a break every time. I can't imagine doing lap after lap like that.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 24, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
What relevance is the weight of the bag compared to the weight of the contents, unless you are specifically considering the material and construction of the bag? With the information given, one cannot determine whether or not the bag is a suitable container. In this case, where the goal is to overflow a container with feces, it would be much more appropriate to specify units of volume. For example: "GM put ten-gallons of shit in a five-gallon bucket."
d00d that killed me :ohyeah:
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
For over an hour.
15 minutes of go carting is enough to wear me out.
Try doing a 3hr enduro sometime... yeesh
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 24, 2015, 02:26:12 PM
I think you guys are going overboard on the 86F comment.
He said it is designed to run at full tilt at 86F for a full tank of gas (essentially indefinitely). It isn't like the car cannot be used at higher temps, but the risk of overheating goes up.
I would be curious about other companies' approaches. To me, when putting out a performance car the above seems reasonable. :huh:
I think the C7 overheating has simply become a meme on this forum, for better or worse. Which is weird because up until the C7 the Vette seemed like a pretty well respected car on this forum. It is becoming annoying to read anything about the Vette now though because of the trolling on this topic.
Yeah we've :deadhorse" it to death. Every car has problems. This one was a little unfortunate press-wise given the nature of the model.
^^^Remember the first 997 Turbo had an "overboost" feature where it made extra power for ~10 sec spurts? It's all in the marketing.
The interior is better than last generations so haters had to find something else to rage about.
Quote from: Tave on February 24, 2015, 05:07:15 PM
^^^Remember the first 997 Turbo had an "overboost" feature where it made extra power for ~10 sec spurts? It's all in the marketing.
My 1M has that as well. On track it will basically never do it because temps. But it still pulls at a constant level for a whole session. So no missed expectations there.
Quote from: Tave on February 24, 2015, 05:07:15 PM
^^^Remember the first 997 Turbo had an "overboost" feature where it made extra power for ~10 sec spurts? It's all in the marketing.
Bonus vs. penalty. Smart marketing.
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 04:16:29 PM
Also, it's 86 degrees, driven by a professional driver. Let's stop pretending we can keep a car as capable as a Z06 on boil like a pro can.
Fairly certain in germany cars can go at a fairly high pace for a fairly prolonged time. Fairly certain the Z06's competition (and much more mundane german cars) are designed to withstand such conditions...
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 05:24:58 PM
Fairly certain in germany cars can go at a fairly high pace for a fairly prolonged time. Fairly certain the Z06's competition (and much more mundane german cars) are designed to withstand such conditions...
Like the autobahn? Any car can do that. Constant load isn't the issue, it's track racing and constant high rpm acceleration.
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 05:24:58 PM
Fairly certain in germany cars can go at a fairly high pace for a fairly prolonged time. Fairly certain the Z06's competition (and much more mundane german cars) are designed to withstand such conditions...
Really? What are the temperature specs these mundane German cars are being designed to?
Most of the racetracks in the US are in regions that regularly see well more than 86F. Randy Pobst got the C7 to overheat on a track on a ~86F day. You won't need to drive the car nearly as hard to get it that hot on track that's 20 degrees hotter, which you will certainly see at tracks like COTA, Daytona, Sebring, Miller, Sonoma, Willow Springs, Road Atlanta, NOLA, and others.
It's very apparent that if 86F with a professional driver was their target, they achieved that target with little to no margin to tolerate anything beyond that. There are reports of professional drivers experiencing overheating at temperatures near that (and at well short that a tank's worth of lapping), and amateur drivers running into issues at temperatures above that mark. MCM3 noted that the C7 Corvettes at COTA last time he was there all overheated. If previous Vettes were designed to this same standard, they obviously had significantly more margin beyond that because I don't recall hearing/reading about temperature issues being quite as widespread. I certainly can't recall a single major publication having their test cars overheat in a handful of laps when running them through their paces at Streets of Willow or Road Atlanta. Any road car will start getting hot in 8 or 10 laps on a hot day, but 2 or 3 when other high performance road cars are able to go several times that many before needing to cool down? That's not a good sign.
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 05:29:01 PM
Like the autobahn? Any car can do that. Constant load isn't the issue, it's track racing and constant high rpm acceleration.
Fairly certain if your ripping down the autobahn its going to be at a high rpm with a fair amount of engine load and be as bad or worse then a track where you have areas with little to no engine load between relatively short bursts
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 06:08:59 PM
Fairly certain if your ripping down the autobahn its going to be at a high rpm with a fair amount of engine load and be as bad or worse then a track where you have areas with little to no engine load between relatively short bursts
High speed cruising = lots of cooling too.
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 05:33:41 PM
Really? What are the temperature specs these mundane German cars are being designed to?
50 deg C
Also, serious lol if you think you can be full throttle on the autobahn for the equivalent of a full tank of gas. It's not like that at all.
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 06:16:54 PM
High speed cruising = lots of cooling too.
Take your car out, floor the gas for a few miles continuously, and get back to me what happens to the temps
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 06:19:55 PM
Also, serious lol if you think you can be full throttle on the autobahn for the equivalent of a full tank of gas. It's not like that at all.
And you realize that a surface temp near the asphalt (you know, what is doing the cooling) of 86 deg F can happen at much lower then an ambient temp of 86 right? You realize that track temps are often 110+ on an average 86deg sunny summer day?
Quote from: r0tor on February 24, 2015, 06:21:06 PM
Take your car out, floor the gas for a few miles continuously, and get back to me what happens to the temps
Again, cooling. Arent u an engineer at a steam plant? This is basic heat transfer.
I still stand by the front opening theory, and the GM engineer indirectly confirmed it. They had to choose between drag and cooling... and with the Z07 package they compromised on both :lol:
GM has made claims that the Z06 is the most track capable Corvette ever. You can't make those claims if your car loses a bunch of power after half a lap and then overheats after just a handful of laps.
New advertising slogan: "The 2015 Corvette Z06 looks like the most track capable Corvette ever...but it's not"
Quote from: SVT666 on February 24, 2015, 08:05:56 PM
GM has made claims that the Z06 is the most track capable Corvette ever. You can't make those claims if your car loses a bunch of power after half a lap and then overheats after just a handful of laps.
New advertising slogan: "The 2015 Corvette Z06 looks like the most track capable Corvette ever...but it's not"
The situation described by the corvette engineer that happened at the media day said nothing about losing a bunch of power. :huh:
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 08:11:14 PM
The situation described by the corvette engineer that happened at the media day said nothing about losing a bunch of power. :huh:
And it was only one car.
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 08:11:14 PM
The situation described by the corvette engineer that happened at the media day said nothing about losing a bunch of power. :huh:
The ECU issue is widespread.
Quote from: MrH on February 24, 2015, 06:19:55 PM
Also, serious lol if you think you can be full throttle on the autobahn for the equivalent of a full tank of gas. It's not like that at all.
I remember an argument with somebody about the Bugatti Veyron; He thought it sucked that at full speed it would run out of fuel in 20 minutes- I'm like "where are you going to go 250 MPH for 20 minutes at?"
Quote from: hotrodalex on February 24, 2015, 09:04:32 PM
And it was only one car.
A design deficiency affects all cars
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2015, 06:52:54 PM
Again, cooling. Arent u an engineer at a steam plant? This is basic heat transfer.
I still stand by the front opening theory, and the GM engineer indirectly confirmed it. They had to choose between drag and cooling... and with the Z07 package they compromised on both :lol:
Take immense load plus, small openings, and then consider what happens to the airflow at speed.... Traveling at 150 mph doesn't necessarily mean a ton more cooling then at 50mph. I would think an engineer can figure out you can only force so much air through a radiator until it becomes a large enough restriction that the air diverts to a lower pressure area.
Quote from: r0tor on February 25, 2015, 08:39:47 AM
Take immense load plus, small openings, and then consider what happens to the airflow at speed.... Traveling at 150 mph doesn't necessarily mean a ton more cooling then at 50mph. I would think an engineer can figure out you can only force so much air through a radiator until it becomes a large enough restriction that the air diverts to a lower pressure area.
I think it would still get more than enough airflow at 150 MPH even with the flow diversion
But at least you agree that the grille opening is too small for the Z06's cooling loads
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-convertible-automatic-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-convertible-automatic-test-review)
BOOM.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 22, 2015, 10:42:30 PM
BOOM.
I didn't read the article, did this one blow up too?
Why does FBC hate America? :neverforget:
I just checked and the Z06 is now available here in the land of tacos. Will go take a look.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 23, 2015, 07:20:07 AM
I didn't read the article, did this one blow up too?
Nope but it was out lapped by a Miata......
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on April 23, 2015, 01:29:26 PM
Nope but it was out lapped by a Miata......
After an hour a bicycle went around the track faster.
http://youtu.be/H34FHs9Pddw (http://youtu.be/H34FHs9Pddw)
That's really fast.
Drag Racing.... :facepalm:
Wow at the 132 mph trap speed, either the air is cold and incredibly high pressure or this is not stock. That is a lot faster than what the rags get, OTOH early spring and late fall are where the hero runs happen in the accompanying good air.
Hmmm. I don't buy that it's stock. 11.2 @ 127 vs. 10.4 @ 133 is a big jump in power as evidenced by the trap speed. Lower gears, drag radials, the most advantageous atmo conditions might get you there, but then that wouldn't be stock.
Cant see the vid... did someone get a stock Z06 through the quarter in 10.4? That would indeed be a 15% power boost all else equal
Drag calculators (for whatever thats worth) say a 133 trap is appropriate for a 3600lb 660HP car though :partyon:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 30, 2015, 11:42:45 AM
Cant see the vid... did someone get a stock Z06 through the quarter in 10.4? That would indeed be a 15% power boost all else equal
Drag calculators (for whatever thats worth) say a 133 trap is appropriate for a 3600lb 660HP car though :partyon:
That's rear wheel horsepower ;).
Unless stated those calculators typically spit out rear wheel horsepower. This one specifically states as such (http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html), and 3,600 lbs and 133 mph is 661 rwhp.
Those calculators are rather ham fisted, and make assumptions probably along the lines of RWD, 3sp AT, and use a basic P = F*V calculation so for example a GTR or 911 Turbo total breaks those calculators.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184246_zps1twe78jd.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184229_zps4mfbjtuq.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184238_zpscydpmyoy.jpg)
Quote from: GoCougs on April 30, 2015, 10:02:54 AM
Hmmm. I don't buy that it's stock. 11.2 @ 127 vs. 10.4 @ 133 is a big jump in power as evidenced by the trap speed. Lower gears, drag radials, the most advantageous atmo conditions might get you there, but then that wouldn't be stock.
Atco is notoriously fast. It's somewhat believable. I believe there's been stock M3/4s in the 11s there.
Summers heating up, and the corvette forum is starting to have a lot of buyers experience issues on the track with ambient temps starting to touch the 80's. It's going to be pretty sad once the temps go up another 15 degrees.
It's typical GM, they will make such a wonderful car in just about every respect, save for one stupid hard headed issue that they just have to throw in there.
This thing was designed POORLY(either the airflow, cooling system in general, or the parameters of the ECU). Either way, they are keeping the legacy alive as far as screwing Z06 buyers over. I'm guessing though that most would agree a limp mode on the track is better than a blown LS7.
Here's to hoping the C8 is better.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 13, 2015, 07:28:51 AM
Summers heating up, and the corvette forum is starting to have a lot of buyers experience issues on the track with ambient temps starting to touch the 80's. It's going to be pretty sad once the temps go up another 15 degrees.
It's typical GM, they will make such a wonderful car in just about every respect, save for one stupid hard headed issue that they just have to throw in there.
This thing was designed POORLY(either the airflow, cooling system in general, or the parameters of the ECU). Either way, they are keeping the legacy alive as far as screwing Z06 buyers over. I'm guessing though that most would agree a limp mode on the track is better than a blown LS7.
Here's to hoping the C8 is better.
If they can't even get the cooling right for a front engine car, I wonder how badly they'll mess up a mid engine car (if the C8 is indeed MR).
Quote from: thecarnut on May 13, 2015, 07:33:05 AM
If they can't even get the cooling right for a front engine car, I wonder how badly they'll mess up a mid engine car (if the C8 is indeed MR).
They always say the next generation will be mid. I doubt they will move the corvette to a mid engined car. It's more likely they make a limited (much more expensive) mid engined car and try to tie it into the corvette. I also don't think it would make it past one generation.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 13, 2015, 08:02:49 AM
They always say the next generation will be mid. I doubt they will move the corvette to a mid engined car. It's more likely they make a limited (much more expensive) mid engined car and try to tie it into the corvette. I also don't think it would make it past one generation.
They already have that HSV truck bodied mid engine test mule driving around. :huh:
Quote from: SVT666 on May 13, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184246_zps1twe78jd.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184229_zps4mfbjtuq.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/Cars/IMG_20150509_184238_zpscydpmyoy.jpg)
IMO that looks awful. Those also look like C6 wheels.
Ugh chrome wheels.
I hate the chrome wheels, but I really dig how this car looks.
Quote from: SVT666 on May 13, 2015, 08:56:25 AM
I hate the chrome wheels, but I really dig how this car looks.
It is good looking, which actually leads me to the idea that they should change limp mode to "parade mode".
"Sir, your car isn't actually defective, it just went into parade mode so other could admire it at a lower speed"
LOL
Quote from: SVT666 on May 13, 2015, 08:56:25 AM
I hate the chrome wheels, but I really dig how this car looks.
To me the black + red just looks cheap for some reason, plus I've never been a fan of red cars.
It would look better without the chrome/polished wheels. Wish GM would get with the program and ditch the gaudy, shiny wheels. Especially on sports cars. I'll give some of their flashier, lux/premium options a pass, but chrome wheels on a performance car hasn't been in style since the 90s.
I saw a coupe not long ago in the same color with graphite-ish wheels (like from the one ZR1)...very sharp. The chrome wheels kill the one pictured.
GM has it's thumb right on the pulse of the 1970's car culture.
My uncle, owner of an early 90's Corvette, actually asked me why I didn't get my new wheels in chrome... I was like :facepalm:
Quote from: MX793 on May 13, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
It would look better without the chrome/polished wheels. Wish GM would get with the program and ditch the gaudy, shiny wheels. Especially on sports cars.
You guys act like GM makes the buyer take the chrome wheels. They are OPTIONAL! You can get the wheels in Polished, Black and Silver. And last time I checked GM was NOT the only manufacturer that offered chrome wheels.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 13, 2015, 08:05:47 AM
Those also look like C6 wheels.
Those are the non Z51 wheels that come on base models.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 13, 2015, 03:08:09 PM
To me the black + red just looks cheap for some reason, plus I've never been a fan of red cars.
I agree! And someone added the Z51 rear spoiler in black (Carbon Flash) also! All the black add ons look cheap against the red IMO. If I was buying a C7 it would be in black!
I imagine it's generational, but there's a significant segment of Corvette buyers who will always want chrome. I can't see them dropping it as an option. That said, I would never get them.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 13, 2015, 05:20:24 PM
I imagine it's generational, but there's a significant segment of Corvette buyers who will always want chrome. I can't see them dropping it as an option. That said, I would never get them.
Especially the Old School Hot Rodders.
They should offer a vinyl roof too, since I'm sure some people would want it...... :rolleyes:
Sometimes you have to do what's right and save the customer from themselves. I wouldn't offer a chrome wheel option on a performance car, MAYBE offer it on base vette's but a Z06 would not have the option.
Just out of curiosity I popped over to the porsche website and looked at the GT3 builder, didn't see any option for chrome wheels there. So either porsche refuses to sell chrome wheels to a large percentage of customers who desire them in order, or porsche buyers are more mature(certainly not referring to age) in their automotive tastes.
I'd like to see a photoshop of that red Z with a white vinyl roof, bet it would cause quite a stir on the internet and many a retirement homes would be bustling well past 9 PM.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 14, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
They should offer a vinyl roof too, since I'm sure some people would want it...... :rolleyes:
Sometimes you have to do what's right and save the customer from themselves. I wouldn't offer a chrome wheel option on a performance car, MAYBE offer it on base vette's but a Z06 would not have the option.
Just out of curiosity I popped over to the porsche website and looked at the GT3 builder, didn't see any option for chrome wheels there. So either porsche refuses to sell chrome wheels to a large percentage of customers who desire them in order, or porsche buyers are more mature(certainly not referring to age) in their automotive tastes.
I'd like to see a photoshop of that red Z with a white vinyl roof, bet it would cause quite a stir on the internet and many a retirement homes would be bustling well past 9 PM.
I think it's just an older generation red blooded American thing ... ie the segment of Corvette buyers that overlaps with Harley Davidson buyers, and probably not much cross shopping Porsche in this group?
The 911 has a more refined look in general.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 14, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
ie the segment of Corvette buyers that overlaps with Harley Davidson buyers,
So that explains why Vette fans are OK with overheating issues!
Quote from: Lebowski on May 14, 2015, 08:30:58 AM
I think it's just an older generation red blooded American thing ... ie the segment of Corvette buyers that overlaps with Harley Davidson buyers, and probably not much cross shopping Porsche in this group?
The 911 has a more refined look in general.
(http://srv2.betterparts.org/images/porsche-911-gt3-05.jpg)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 14, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
They should offer a vinyl roof too, since I'm sure some people would want it...... :rolleyes:
My car has a vinyl roof.... :huh:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/TWOBIGHEDZ/null_zpsabe4876d.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on May 14, 2015, 08:45:07 AM
HORRID...
(http://srv2.betterparts.org/images/porsche-911-gt3-05.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on May 14, 2015, 08:45:07 AM
(http://srv2.betterparts.org/images/porsche-911-gt3-05.jpg)
Those wheels aren't chrome:p
Velocity Yellow is officially done (RIP 2006-2015). This new hue is called Race Yellow. I'll have to see it in person but I think VY looks better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rkjOEKVkw0#t=110 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rkjOEKVkw0#t=110)
Clarkson is not amused
http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-chevrolet-corvette-z06-2015/ (http://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/the-clarkson-review-chevrolet-corvette-z06-2015/)
I'm kind of surprised that he hates it that much. If anything, it solidifies my opinion that the Z51 Stingray is the perfect iteration of the new Vette.
Clarkson is just a contrarian troll.
Wonder if they will do the Z06 :erjerbs: :neverforget: trim. Replace all the Z07 carbon bits with chrome and do the interior in a cheap ill fitting walnut dash kit. 2 speed powerglide, white on white leather with white wheels and high speed graphics. Only $499/mo with an approved 30 yr HELOC
Don't talk shit about the Powerglide
Hmmm, so I thought it was generally accepted that he doesn't know a thing about performance driving (and if it's not it must be accepted, which one can deduce simply by his use of "torques").
Clarkson is a master rabble rouser. Id much rather hear a chassis engineer wax on about frequencies and the like. Clarkson is for folks who like cars but dont know anything about them. TG ending is a good thing for auto enthusiasts
Well, he does go out of his way to avoid being educational. He's one of those "knowledge is boring" people.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2015, 09:41:41 PM
Clarkson is a master rabble rouser. Id much rather hear a chassis engineer wax on about frequencies and the like. Clarkson is for folks who like cars but dont know anything about them. TG ending is a good thing for auto enthusiasts
:rolleyes:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2015, 09:41:41 PM
Clarkson is a master rabble rouser. Id much rather hear a chassis engineer wax on about frequencies and the like. Clarkson is for folks who like cars but dont know anything about them. TG ending is a good thing for auto enthusiasts
No, Clarkson is a fan of cars and driving cars - not of marketing nonsense. The Europeans worked out the foundation of a good car years ago - predictable compliant and agile chassis setup with lively engines.
The C5 corvette was suppose to be the next great thing. It never was fully baked in the chassis department. Then the C6 came out and the marketing department threw gobs and gobs of supercharged power and magnitec headlines - only to never really sort of the underlying C5 issues. Now the C7 puts more lipstick on the same pig with carbon this and that - and none of it actually works in real life on the Z07.
lol at the Euro worship...
Quote from: r0tor on May 17, 2015, 10:00:59 AM
Now the C7 puts more lipstick on the same pig with carbon this and that
:nutty:
Quote from: GoCougs on May 17, 2015, 12:22:07 PM
lol at the Euro worship...
Rite! these are the same people that'll buy a Cayman GT4 and get their asses handed to them by the cheaper Z06.......
EDIT: A Z51 might open a can of whoop ass on the GT4 also! :tounge:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on May 17, 2015, 01:11:10 PM
Rite! these are the same people that'll buy a Cayman GT4 and get their asses handed to them by the cheaper Z06.......
EDIT: A Z51 might open a can of whoop ass on the GT4 also! :tounge:
The GT4 is a better car, regardless of which is faster.
Quote from: SVT666 on May 17, 2015, 01:26:45 PM
The GT4 is a better car, regardless of which is faster.
Same excuse Ford Fanbois use in the Rustang vs. Camaro debate! :winkguy:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on May 17, 2015, 01:50:00 PM
Same excuse Ford Fanbois use in the Rustang vs. Camaro debate! :winkguy:
Certain trim levels are better in the Mustang than the Camaro and vice versa. If the sole requirement for "better" is "faster", then the last Shelby GT500 is one of the best cars ever made...and we all know that's not true.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on May 17, 2015, 01:11:10 PM
Rite! these are the same people that'll buy a Cayman GT4 and get their asses handed to them by the cheaper Z06.......
EDIT: A Z51 might open a can of whoop ass on the GT4 also! :tounge:
If I'm not winning money by racing, I will take the better car - the GT4
Quote from: r0tor on May 17, 2015, 10:00:59 AM
The C5 corvette was suppose to be the next great thing. It never was fully baked in the chassis department. Then the C6 came out and the marketing department threw gobs and gobs of supercharged power and magnitec headlines - only to never really sort of the underlying C5 issues. Now the C7 puts more lipstick on the same pig with carbon this and that - and none of it actually works in real life on the Z07.
:huh:
I'm not really a C5 fan but overall the C5, C6, and C7 are/were the best performance buy of their respective time.
Quote from: r0tor on May 17, 2015, 02:00:21 PM
If I'm not winning money by racing, I will take the better car - the GT4
The point of racing is to be THE FASTEST from Point A to B! So I guess you wouldn't be making much money.... ;)
EDIT: I read that wrong. :facepalm:
So has anyone ever been successful dumping on the Corvette?
Quote from: GoCougs on May 17, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
So has anyone ever been successful dumping on the Corvette?
Not since the late 70s!
Quote from: GoCougs on May 17, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
So has anyone ever been successful dumping on the Corvette?
Normally just the owners, Z boys are having fun with some blown motors and of course now that its getting warmer, the heat related issues.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on May 17, 2015, 05:20:19 PM
Not since the late 70s!
Word. It's pretty much always been at a unique price/performance point. Can't dump on it for not being as "good" as the 911 (though it's pretty close these days) because it costs 30-40+% less and no domestic automaker has ever made anything in the class.
Isn't this what you were waiting on Cougs?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/chevy-brings-android-auto-and-apple-carplay-to-14-models-for-2016/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/chevy-brings-android-auto-and-apple-carplay-to-14-models-for-2016/)
YES. I had a Q50 loaner for a few days not long ago and that infotainment was a mess.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 17, 2015, 07:24:31 PM
Word. It's pretty much always been at a unique price/performance point. Can't dump on it for not being as "good" as the 911 (though it's pretty close these days) because it costs 30-40+% less and no domestic automaker has ever made anything in the class.
Even in the 70's they sold like crazy and were generally well reviewed. Nothing else really competed with the Corvette at that time.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/rumor-2015-corvette-zo6-does-708-nurburgring (http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/rumor-2015-corvette-zo6-does-708-nurburgring)
So I guess the cause of all those blown C7 engines has been found. Apparently GM used a sealant in the engine that caused the oil to foam up. The solution is to change the oil at 500miles. After the breakin period the sealant is gone. Surprised this was not caught during testing.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/08/21/chevrolet-finds-cause-and-solution-for-corvette-z06-engine-problem/ (http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/08/21/chevrolet-finds-cause-and-solution-for-corvette-z06-engine-problem/)
I heard it was metal shavings from the castings.
Either way, what GM says isn't usually the case. I'm sure there will be more failures in the future(between overheats).
I'm surprised Chevy didn't require an oil change at 500 miles in the owner's manual. Any vehicle with a high performance engine (motorcycles, specifically) I've owned has called for the first oil change at 500-600 miles. IIRC, I was told to change the oil at around 600 miles on my Mustang as well.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on September 02, 2015, 01:00:12 PM
I heard it was metal shavings from the castings.
Either way, what GM says isn't usually the case. I'm sure there will be more failures in the future(between overheats).
GM doesn't make mistakes. Only GM suppliers make mistakes.
Quote from: MX793 on September 02, 2015, 03:15:21 PM
I'm surprised Chevy didn't require an oil change at 500 miles in the owner's manual. Any vehicle with a high performance engine (motorcycles, specifically) I've owned has called for the first oil change at 500-600 miles. IIRC, I was told to change the oil at around 600 miles on my Mustang as well.
There was a 500 mile oil change requirement in the owners manual! Most Stealerships were doing them for free!
Quote from: MX793 on September 02, 2015, 03:15:21 PM
I'm surprised Chevy didn't require an oil change at 500 miles in the owner's manual. Any vehicle with a high performance engine (motorcycles, specifically) I've owned has called for the first oil change at 500-600 miles. IIRC, I was told to change the oil at around 600 miles on my Mustang as well.
Both the Accord and G manuals said to leave factory oil in for the entire interval owing to some important additive.
Modern manufacturing processes are (or should be) so tight there is no such need to change oil owing to "dirt" or w/e.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 02, 2015, 10:36:15 PM
Modern manufacturing processes are (or should be) so tight there is no such need to change oil owing to "dirt" or w/e.
No
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 03, 2015, 05:56:54 AM
No
Yes. I challenge you to show me of a new car manual that stipulates oil change within the first 500 miles. Might fine a couple, but by and large, that requirement does not exist for a new car.
C&D just picked the GT350 over a Z51 C7 in the Feb issue! Even thought the Vette out performed the Stang they picked it over the Vette because it felt more special and had better steering! But in the same review they complained about how the GT felt like it would vibrate its dash a loose at higher revs. They even mentioned that the GT350 buyer should "sell the car before it vibrates itself into pieces." :wtf: Stang won by 2 points.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 02, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
C&D just picked the GT350 over a Z51 C7 in the Feb issue! Even thought the Vette out performed the Stang they picked it over the Vette because it felt more special and had better steering! But in the same review they complained about how the GT felt like it would vibrate its dash a loose at higher revs. They even mentioned that the GT350 buyer should "sell the car before it vibrates itself into pieces." :wtf: Stang won by 2 points.
They're probably still soured over their problematic long-termer.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 02, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
They're probably still soured over their problematic long-termer.
Thats EXACTLY what I thought! Epecially since the C7 flat out ran the Stang in ALL the performance categories!
Quote from: Rockraven on January 02, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
They're probably still soured over their problematic long-termer.
That shit was unacceptable
Quote from: Rockraven on January 02, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
They're probably still soured over their problematic long-termer.
I was thinking the same thing.
As special as the GT350 is, the Vette is a hell of a complete package. Ignoring dealer markup, the Mustang is a decent chunk of change cheaper, though. Over 10% cheaper for a GT350 with Tech Package versus a 1LT Z51 w/ MagneRide.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 02, 2016, 09:07:10 PM
That shit was unacceptable
No excuses! Yes it was! At the same time I wonder how hard C&D is on these cars!
You say no excuses then try to cast doubt and invalidate their experience by attempting to blame them for some sort of excessive use or abuse.
Gm fucked up, again. It's not the first time and far from the last.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 02, 2016, 09:16:48 PM
No excuses! Yes it was! At the same time I wonder how hard C&D is on these cars!
Failure modes that could not be attributed to abuse or hard use:
-8" touch screen shorted out on surrounding trim at <1000 miles (manufacturing defect)
-Blown engine (caused by metal burrs not cleaned out after machining or a burr in the oil filter threads that wasn't cleaned out, both were identified as potential causes)
-Defective side airbag and seat upholstery (the latter likely caused by the replacement of the former)
-Failed environmental control module
-Failed starter motor
-Leaking axle seals
Still worth it. Z06 is King of the Road.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 02, 2016, 09:32:03 PM
You say no excuses then try to cast doubt and invalidate their experience by attempting to blame them for some sort of excessive use or abuse.
I'm not casting doubt! I honestly wonder how hard they are on the test cars! We all know people don't take care of cars that they DIDN'T Pay for like they would a car that they spent their own money on! I'm pretty sure 99% of people in rental cars don't treat them like their own. Thats the only case I'm making! Like I said there's no excuse for all the problems that Vette gave them.......
Quote from: MX793 on January 02, 2016, 10:00:54 PM
Failure modes that could not be attributed to abuse or hard use:
-8" touch screen shorted out on surrounding trim at <1000 miles (manufacturing defect)
-Blown engine (caused by metal burrs not cleaned out after machining or a burr in the oil filter threads that wasn't cleaned out, both were identified as potential causes)
-Defective side airbag and seat upholstery (the latter likely caused by the replacement of the former)
-Failed environmental control module
-Failed starter motor
-Leaking axle seals
See reply above! No excuses for that many problems on a new OR used 2014 Vette.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 02, 2016, 10:05:27 PM
Still worth it. Z06 is King of the Road.
Yes it is for the same Coin as a loaded GTS or GT4 Cayman!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 02, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
C&D just picked the GT350 over a Z51 C7 in the Feb issue! Even thought the Vette out performed the Stang they picked it over the Vette because it felt more special and had better steering!
Bigger out and out performance numbers are just one factor in what makes the better car.
Besides better steering add a better shifter, brake feel, "good ride", sublime body control". Not to mention better driver comfort, ergonomics, and interior and exterior styling. It might not generate the numbers a corvette does, but it's a better overall package, especially where most people use their car most of the time; on public roads.
Remove the Mustang badging and then see C&D say how "special" the car feels ;). The GT350 is a good package but the Corvette is simply a much more expensive performance car.
And ouch on those GT350 accel numbers - 0-60 and 1/4 mile times exactly match C&D's test of a fully loaded 2016 Camaro 2SS with M/T (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-manual-first-drive-review). 54 mph in 1st and 79 mph in 2nd with an 8,250 rpm motor, no VVL and only a moderate power/weight ratio is gonna be a tough go. A sixth gen Camaro Z28 w/the (10-year-old) LS7 will be well out in front. Ford should have spent flat plane crank dev $$ on VVL.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 02, 2016, 11:46:07 PM
Remove the Mustang badging and then see C&D say how "special" the car feels ;). The GT350 is a good package but the Corvette is simply a much more expensive performance car.
And ouch on those GT350 accel numbers - 0-60 and 1/4 mile times exactly match C&D's test of a fully loaded 2016 Camaro 2SS with M/T (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-manual-first-drive-review). 54 mph in 1st and 79 mph in 2nd with an 8,250 rpm motor, no VVL and only a moderate power/weight ratio is gonna be a tough go. A sixth gen Camaro Z28 w/the (10-year-old) LS7 will be well out in front. Ford should have spent flat plane crank dev $$ on VVL.
Werent u the guy who said the GT4's unusually long, acceleration-blunting gearing was optimized "for the track"? I still want to know what track. In any case, I am finding it bizarre that you are now dumping on the GT350, which is just as "track focused", for having similarly long gearing. By focusing on acceleration numbers you unsurprisingly completely miss the point of the GT350. If someone needs an automotive penis enlargement they can get the Super Snake package. For someone who wants a spiritual successor to something like the E46 M3 CSL, there is the GT350/R. I would not be so quick to claim victory for GM here. When the LTx can hold itself together for a pass or lap it is indeed faster, but all the woes of C&D's long term Stingray and all the problems of the Z06 don't look too good. The LSx/LTx are a lot of things.... good things.... but I don't think anyone could call the hi po LSx and any of the LTx engines "reliable". Calm down.
Quote from: CLKid on January 02, 2016, 10:49:25 PM
Bigger out and out performance numbers are just one factor in what makes the better car.
Besides better steering add a better shifter, brake feel, "good ride", sublime body control". Not to mention better driver comfort, ergonomics, and interior and exterior styling. It might not generate the numbers a corvette does, but it's a better overall package, especially where most people use their car most of the time; on public roads.
GOOD RIDE? LOL!!! If these were Sports SEDANS I'd agree with you but the cover of this issue reads "Mustang Beats Corvette" and "America Meet Your New Sports Car King!" all this for a car that didn't win a SINGLE performance category! The C7 handed the GT it's ass with 66 LESS horse power! C&D also said if they hadn't driven both cars back to back they wouldn't have noticed the differance in steering feel!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
Werent u the guy who said the GT4's unusually long, acceleration-blunting gearing was optimized "for the track"? I still want to know what track. In any case, I am finding it bizarre that you are now dumping on the GT350, which is just as "track focused", for having similarly long gearing. By focusing on acceleration numbers you unsurprisingly completely miss the point of the GT350. If someone needs an automotive penis enlargement they can get the Super Snake package. For someone who wants a spiritual successor to something like the E46 M3 CSL, there is the GT350/R. I would not be so quick to claim victory for GM here. When the LTx can hold itself together for a pass or lap it is indeed faster, but all the woes of C&D's long term Stingray and all the problems of the Z06 don't look too good. The LSx/LTx are a lot of things.... good things.... but I don't think anyone could call the hi po LSx and any of the LTx engines "reliable". Calm down.
Lets not act like every other LT1/4 has blown up! Not defending the problems but we all know some of these Vettes don't live easy lives!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 03, 2016, 08:51:31 AM
GOOD RIDE? LOL!!! If these were Sports SEDANS I'd agree with you but the cover of this issue reads "Mustang Beats Corvette" and "America Meet Your New Sports Car King!" all this for a car that didn't win a SINGLE performance category! The C7 handed the GT it's ass with 66 LESS horse power! C&D also said if they hadn't driven both cars back to back they wouldn't have noticed the differance in steering feel!
A greatness of a "sports car" is not measured by the numbers it puts up. The Miata is arguably one of greatest of the breed, and it, particularly its older generations, will get smoked by most family sedans. The Boxster is another fine example that, again, will get left in the dust by many other vehicles, including some non-sports cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
Werent u the guy who said the GT4's unusually long, acceleration-blunting gearing was optimized "for the track"? I still want to know what track. In any case, I am finding it bizarre that you are now dumping on the GT350, which is just as "track focused", for having similarly long gearing. By focusing on acceleration numbers you unsurprisingly completely miss the point of the GT350. If someone needs an automotive penis enlargement they can get the Super Snake package. For someone who wants a spiritual successor to something like the E46 M3 CSL, there is the GT350/R. I would not be so quick to claim victory for GM here. When the LTx can hold itself together for a pass or lap it is indeed faster, but all the woes of C&D's long term Stingray and all the problems of the Z06 don't look too good. The LSx/LTx are a lot of things.... good things.... but I don't think anyone could call the hi po LSx and any of the LTx engines "reliable". Calm down.
Indeed, the GT350 is not a drag car. Its hardware speaks clearly to that. Tall gearing in the lower gears optimized for acceleration from a roll rather than from a standing start, the latter occurring effectively never on a circuit. Also the presence of a Torsen type differential, which is ill-suited for drag strip work for several reasons, ranging from the way it is designed to work to its tolerance for harsh driveline shocks incurred during a hard launch.
Quote from: MX793 on January 03, 2016, 09:21:51 AM
A greatness of a "sports car" is not measured by the numbers it puts up. The Miata is arguably one of greatest of the breed, and it, particularly its older generations, will get smoked by most family sedans. The Boxster is another fine example that, again, will get smoked by many other vehicles, including some non-sports cars.
True! But can one car be crowned the new SPOTRS CAR KING when It clearly can't outperform the previous champ? Ride quality and shifter feel shouldn't be enough to dethrone the Vette. It's not like the Vette has the shifter out of a '84 Fiero or rides like a '67 Cobra....
Quote from: MX793 on January 03, 2016, 09:21:51 AM
A greatness of a "sports car" is not measured by the numbers it puts up. The Miata is arguably one of greatest of the breed, and it, particularly its older generations, will get smoked by most family sedans. The Boxster is another fine example that, again, will get smoked by many other vehicles, including some non-sports cars.
Yep, same with the VW GTi. It's the whole package. I love the Stingray, but it has some serious issues that may/may not have been addressed yet. I hope getting beaten by a Mustang wakes up GM to improve the 'Vette in terms of comfort, dynamics, and reliability.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 03, 2016, 08:51:31 AM
GOOD RIDE? LOL!!! If these were Sports SEDANS I'd agree with you but the cover of this issue reads "Mustang Beats Corvette" and "America Meet Your New Sports Car King!" all this for a car that didn't win a SINGLE performance category! The C7 handed the GT it's ass with 66 LESS horse power! C&D also said if they hadn't driven both cars back to back they wouldn't have noticed the differance in steering feel!
An F1 car or Le mans prototype car will put down terrific numbers as well and hand the C7 it's ass in most performance categories. That doesn't mean they are the better cars.
WRT steering feel, a comparison test brings out those subtle differences.
Quote from: CLKid on January 03, 2016, 10:22:43 AM
An F1 car or Le mans prototype car will put down terrific numbers as well and hand the C7 it's ass in most performance categories. That doesn't mean they are the better cars.
If the C7 was a One Trick Pony this would make sense......
I wouldn't quite call this a win for Ford yet. But I like Ford's approach vs Chevy's. OK the Rustang isn't the dynamic bench racing king. But when the pen hits the paper I know which of the two I would rather actually spend my money on and rely on to get me from point A to point B without incident. Bragging rights don't mean shit when you're waiting on the side of the road for a tow truck.
Plus the GT 350's gearing is easily easily easily fixable. A ~4.2-4.4 FD would make the gear ratios more bench racer friendly and allow for more legal winding out of the motor. It's probably the 3.73 it is for emissions and fuel economy. Regular Mustang's issues are easily fixable as well. GM's cars, not so much
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
Werent u the guy who said the GT4's unusually long, acceleration-blunting gearing was optimized "for the track"? I still want to know what track. In any case, I am finding it bizarre that you are now dumping on the GT350, which is just as "track focused", for having similarly long gearing. By focusing on acceleration numbers you unsurprisingly completely miss the point of the GT350. If someone needs an automotive penis enlargement they can get the Super Snake package. For someone who wants a spiritual successor to something like the E46 M3 CSL, there is the GT350/R. I would not be so quick to claim victory for GM here. When the LTx can hold itself together for a pass or lap it is indeed faster, but all the woes of C&D's long term Stingray and all the problems of the Z06 don't look too good. The LSx/LTx are a lot of things.... good things.... but I don't think anyone could call the hi po LSx and any of the LTx engines "reliable". Calm down.
Sigh, your Internetry is so awful I don't even know why I bother any more (and probably won't, so best that you revel in this meaty beat down).
More time spent shifting = less time putting power to the track. Show me a track focused M/T-equipped car and I'll show you a car with tall(ish) gearing, with the most extreme example probably the Z06 - 65 in 1st and 95 in 2nd. The GT4 has a much less advantageous power/weight ratio than the GT350 and even with similarly tall gears, is as quick or quicker than the GT350.
Money blown on a lofty red line doesn't do a whole lot if nets you a slower car and thusly Ford continues its legacy of less-than-stellar engine development. Sure, it's nifty to talk about flat plane cranks but it's a bit awkward that the GT350 is no quicker than the far cheaper Camaro SS with a pooprod motor and that it otherwise can't outgun a smaller/lighter/simpler 10-year-old pooprod motor.
The tall lower gears is for track use since it reduces the number of shifts. Shifting costs time...at least that's how Porsche explained it with regards to the GT4. Since I will never take the car on a track, but I want that engine, suspension, body work, and noise, I want the GT350 with more aggressive gearing. IME, different transmission gear ratios is the way to do this, not with super aggressive rear end ratios like Sporty suggests.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 03, 2016, 11:08:21 AM
Sigh, your Internetry is so awful I don't even know why I bother any more (and probably won't, so best that you revel in this meaty beat down).
More time spent shifting = less time putting power to the track. Show me a track focused M/T-equipped car and I'll show you a car with tall(ish) gearing, with the most extreme example probably the Z06 - 65 in 1st and 95 in 2nd. The GT4 has a much less advantageous power/weight ratio than the GT350 and even with similarly tall gears, is as quick or quicker than the GT350.
Money blown on a lofty red line doesn't do a whole lot if nets you a slower car and thusly Ford continues its legacy of less-than-stellar engine development. Sure, it's nifty to talk about flat plane cranks but it's a bit awkward that the GT350 is no quicker than the far cheaper Camaro SS with a pooprod motor and that it otherwise can't outgun a smaller/lighter/simpler 10-year-old pooprod motor.
If the GT350 had transmission ratios like the regular GT, it would annihilate the SS in a straight line. But that's not what this car is about.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 03, 2016, 11:08:21 AM
Sigh, your Internetry is so awful I don't even know why I bother any more (and probably won't, so best that you revel in this meaty beat down).
More time spent shifting = less time putting power to the track. Show me a track focused M/T-equipped car and I'll show you a car with tall(ish) gearing, with the most extreme example probably the Z06 - 65 in 1st and 95 in 2nd. The GT4 has a much less advantageous power/weight ratio than the GT350 and even with similarly tall gears, is as quick or quicker than the GT350.
Money blown on a lofty red line doesn't do a whole lot if nets you a slower car and thusly Ford continues its legacy of less-than-stellar engine development. Sure, it's nifty to talk about flat plane cranks but it's a bit awkward that the GT350 is no quicker than the far cheaper Camaro SS with a pooprod motor and that it otherwise can't outgun a smaller/lighter/simpler 10-year-old pooprod motor.
Of course you will continue to bother, as you don't have the discipline to restrain yourself or the intelligence to beat me. You can't even keep your stories straight. In the Z06 thread you were talking about how boosted cars can't be track cars, now you are citing the boosted Z06's gearing as a model of how track cars are geared. What track car have you driven? Do you watch any professional motorsports? From auto-x to F1 track cars are geared to maximize average power over the course of the lap. That means not having a gear that redlines at ~250 MPH or whatever like this and the Z06 do.
And again you still miss the point. They didn't give this thing a lofty redline for more speed. They did it to enhance the driving experience and make something that stood apart from a regular Mustang or Camaro. The 911 Turbo has always been faster than the GT3 and yet the GT3 retains its value better and is held in higher regard by folks who track both. Do you have even a shred of a clue why that is?
Again not everybody buys a performance car to bench race and add inches to their penis. I know this is probably hard for you to comprehend but some people actually enjoy driving, and don't need to be the fastest idiot at the stop light.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 03, 2016, 11:15:02 AM
The tall lower gears is for track use since it reduces the number of shifts. Shifting costs time...at least that's how Porsche explained it with regards to the GT4. Since I will never take the car on a track, but I want that engine, suspension, body work, and noise, I want the GT350 with more aggressive gearing. IME, different transmission gear ratios is the way to do this, not with super aggressive rear end ratios like Sporty suggests.
Aggressive rear ends ( ;) ) and gear ratios amount to the same thing. Porsche's explanation was bullshit- the reality is the GT4 was built to cost and they didn't want to spend the money to change the gears from the Carrera S they took the GT4's powertrain from. They also probably didn't want to step on the 911's toes too much- a more aggressively geared GT4 would give everything south of the GT3 "The Business". Let's not forget emissions regs either.
You never wanting to take this car on the track only further justifies more aggressive gearing. This thing revs to 8300 or whatever. That high redline is the whole point of the car. How often will you get to take it there on the street with its long ass gearing? Stock gearing means you will be easily breaking the law at redline in 3rd. Meanwhile if 3rd were geared to top out at 85 or 90 or so you'd get that much more scream from it without raising the ire of the law. I know you don't like me but that's no reason to purposely be wrong.
While either final drive or transmission ratios can be adjusted to get the same road speed / RPM relationship, there are design considerations that would lead to choosing one vs the other. Driveshaft strength, length, and natural frequency, as examples.
This is silly since no one is going to cross-shop a Mustang and a Corvette. Buy whichever one you like more, since both are incredibly fun and entertaining. I'm tired of the "this car is best" competitions. Wait another year and the other car will be the best.
I finally watched the LaFerrari vs. P1 vs. 918 comparo by Chris Harris and I enjoyed how they didn't pick a winner. Just enjoy the cars for what they are and stop trying to dump on the "other team".
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 10:46:06 AM
But I like Ford's approach vs Chevy's.
That's why the Camaro exist. Of course the Mustang/Camaro is gonna be more "Livable" than a Vette but thats not what this comparo was about!
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 03, 2016, 12:39:11 PM
This is silly since no one is going to cross-shop a Mustang and a Corvette.
Why not?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 03, 2016, 01:45:09 PM
Why not?
Biggest reason: Because one's a Ford and one's a Chevy.
But it's also pony car vs. sports car. Top of the lineup vs. bottom of the lineup. Limited edition vs. bread and butter.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 03, 2016, 01:57:33 PM
Biggest reason: Because one's a Ford and one's a Chevy.
But it's also pony car vs. sports car. Top of the lineup vs. bottom of the lineup. Limited edition vs. bread and butter.
That's stupid. Outside of the enthusiast world they're both sports cars.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 03, 2016, 03:13:00 PM
That's stupid. Outside of the enthusiast world they're both sports cars.
Yeah, so is a Pontiac Grand Am
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 03, 2016, 03:13:00 PM
That's stupid. Outside of the enthusiast world they're both sports cars.
Yeah and outside of the enthusiast world, such in depth comparisons of the cars is unheard of.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 03, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
Yeah, so is a Pontiac Grand Am
Only if it's the 2 door with RAM AIR and the 3.4L V6
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 03, 2016, 03:13:00 PM
That's stupid. Outside of the enthusiast world they're both sports cars.
Mustang is about as much of a sports car as a BMW 6 series.....
New Vettes are the only GM I would buy besides Volt. Those Vettes look so sweet, in hardtop or vert.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 11:59:25 AM
Aggressive rear ends ( ;) ) and gear ratios amount to the same thing.
No, they don't. Not at all. Aggressive rear ends affect every gear including your overdrive gear(s). Changing the gear ratios in the tranny only affect the gears you change and leave your cruising gears alone.
QuotePorsche's explanation was bullshit- the reality is the GT4 was built to cost and they didn't want to spend the money to change the gears from the Carrera S they took the GT4's powertrain from. They also probably didn't want to step on the 911's toes too much- a more aggressively geared GT4 would give everything south of the GT3 "The Business". Let's not forget emissions regs either.
Looking at all the high horsepower track focused cars, their lower gears tend to be geared tall.
Quote
You never wanting to take this car on the track only further justifies more aggressive gearing. This thing revs to 8300 or whatever. That high redline is the whole point of the car. How often will you get to take it there on the street with its long ass gearing? Stock gearing means you will be easily breaking the law at redline in 3rd. Meanwhile if 3rd were geared to top out at 85 or 90 or so you'd get that much more scream from it without raising the ire of the law. I know you don't like me but that's no reason to purposely be wrong.
Thanks for backing up what I said.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2016, 04:29:47 PM
Mustang is about as much of a sports car as a BMW 6 series.....
You just agreed with him. Outside of the enthusiast world the 6 series is a sports car ass well. As is a fucking 4 series
Quote from: SVT666 on January 03, 2016, 11:17:31 AM
If the GT350 had transmission ratios like the regular GT, it would annihilate the SS in a straight line. But that's not what this car is about.
It would be a bit quicker but not hugely so. For example, the 8AT Z06 has one full gear deeper gearing than the 7MT Z06 but only picks up ~0.3 sec in the 1/4 mile, and the stock Mustang GT vs. GT350 gearing advantage isn't as aggressive as the 8AT vs. 7MT Z06. The GT350 would pick up 0.2-0.3 but that's definitely not an annihilation, and not only because the 8AT Camaro SS is running a 12.2-12.3 1/4 mile ;).
Quote from: SVT666 on January 03, 2016, 11:17:31 AM
If the GT350 had transmission ratios like the regular GT, it would annihilate the SS in a straight line. But that's not what this car is about.
The GT350 transmission ratios aren't much taller than the standard GT w/ 3.73s.
1st gear is 6 mph/1000 RPM on the GTPP vs 6.7 for the GT350
2nd gear is 9.1 vs 9.8.
That is, in fact, very close to the gearing of a regular GT with the standard 3.31 gears.
The lofty redline is what gets it the high top speeds in each gear, but I don't think I'd want it geared much shorter for daily driving.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 03, 2016, 10:58:15 PM
It would be a bit quicker but not hugely so. For example, the 8AT Z06 has one full gear deeper gearing than the 7MT Z06 but only picks up ~0.3 sec in the 1/4 mile, and the stock Mustang GT vs. GT350 gearing advantage isn't as aggressive as the 8AT vs. 7MT Z06. The GT350 would pick up 0.2-0.3 but that's definitely not an annihilation, and not only because the 8AT Camaro SS is running a 12.2-12.3 1/4 mile ;).
3 tenths in the 1/4 mile is an annihilation. That's several car lengths.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 04, 2016, 08:17:43 AM
3 tenths in the 1/4 mile is an annihilation. That's several car lengths.
It's a few car lengths but it is not an annihilation.
A few car lengths is a pretty decisive victory.
Okay, now I got it; a lowly Camaro SS 8AT then "annihilates" a $50k GT350 ;).
Car and Driver: 2016 Camaro 2SS 8AT (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
0-60 in 3.9 sec
1/4 mile in 12.3 sec @ 116
Car and Driver: 2016 Mustang GT350 (http://horsepowerkings.com/image.jpg)
0-60 in 4.3 sec
1/4 mile in 12.5 sec @ 119
Quote from: GoCougs on January 04, 2016, 08:30:54 PM
Okay, now I got it; a lowly Camaro SS 8AT then "annihilates" a $50k GT350 ;).
Car and Driver: 2016 Camaro 2SS 8AT (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
0-60 in 3.9 sec
1/4 mile in 12.3 sec @ 116
Car and Driver: 2016 Mustang GT350 (http://horsepowerkings.com/image.jpg)
0-60 in 4.3 sec
1/4 mile in 12.5 sec @ 119
:lol:
Of all the members carspin lost over the years, and cougs wasn't one of them.
:banghead:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 04, 2016, 08:41:48 PM
Of all the members carspin lost over the years, and cougs wasn't one of them.
:banghead:
Don't hate the player........
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 04, 2016, 08:41:48 PM
Of all the members carspin lost over the years, and cougs wasn't one of them.
:banghead:
Maybe you should spend more time with your trains.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 04, 2016, 08:30:54 PM
Okay, now I got it; a lowly Camaro SS 8AT then "annihilates" a $50k GT350 ;).
Car and Driver: 2016 Camaro 2SS 8AT (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
0-60 in 3.9 sec
1/4 mile in 12.3 sec @ 116
Car and Driver: 2016 Mustang GT350 (http://horsepowerkings.com/image.jpg)
0-60 in 4.3 sec
1/4 mile in 12.5 sec @ 119
:lol:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 04, 2016, 08:30:54 PM
Okay, now I got it; a lowly Camaro SS 8AT then "annihilates" a $50k GT350 ;).
Car and Driver: 2016 Camaro 2SS 8AT (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2015-ford-mustang-gt-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
0-60 in 3.9 sec
1/4 mile in 12.3 sec @ 116
Car and Driver: 2016 Mustang GT350 (http://horsepowerkings.com/image.jpg)
0-60 in 4.3 sec
1/4 mile in 12.5 sec @ 119
To 60 and through the 1/4, yes. Although, looking at the numbers, the Camaro's advantage is that it gets out of the hole quicker. .4s ahead at 60, but only .2 ahead in the 1/4 (and 3 mph lower trap speed) and it's seconds behind by 150.
But, as we've already established, the GT350 isn't a drag racer and isn't optimized for dead-dig accelerations. It's geared for road racing, where speeds are generally 40+ mph. Watch the MotorTrend GT350 vs Z/28 track battle on Chuckwala where the minimum speed was 43 mph on the tightest corner on the track, and 50+ everywhere else. In the '15 Mustang GT vs 1LE on the rather tight Streets of Willow course, they were 40+ everywhere but the hairpin turn 1, where speeds dropped to ~37 mph. In a 45-120 mph rolling drag race, my money is on the GT350.
Cougs is a real piece of work. Not even a page ago he was talking about how track cars like the GT350 are geared long "for the track". For fucks sake, the SS automatic is geared a good 13-15% in the first 2 gears. SS 6MT is as fast as the auto but is geared even shorter than the automatic (only hits 65 in 1st gear). Again how much faster would the GT350 be if it weren't "geared for the track"?
Summit is geared long for the track.
:muffin: :lol:
Quote from: MX793 on January 04, 2016, 09:02:16 PM
To 60 and through the 1/4, yes. Although, looking at the numbers, the Camaro's advantage is that it gets out of the hole quicker. .4s ahead at 60, but only .2 ahead in the 1/4 (and 3 mph lower trap speed) and it's seconds behind by 150.
But, as we've already established, the GT350 isn't a drag racer and isn't optimized for dead-dig accelerations. It's geared for road racing, where speeds are generally 40+ mph. Watch the MotorTrend GT350 vs Z/28 track battle on Chuckwala where the minimum speed was 43 mph on the tightest corner on the track, and 50+ everywhere else. In the '15 Mustang GT vs 1LE on the rather tight Streets of Willow course, they were 40+ everywhere but the hairpin turn 1, where speeds dropped to ~37 mph. In a 45-120 mph rolling drag race, my money is on the GT350.
The GT350 would indeed win from a faster roll; it's losing the 0-60 and 1/4 mile drag race in the first ~100 feet, trying to climb the lower registers in that long first gear.
The GT350's detriment isn't its gearing or lack of "optimization" for acceleration; I stated it is its lack of VVL. Lots of performance cars have as tall or taller gearing, but none I can find under perform its power/weight ratio like the GT350 (at least 0-60 and 1/4 mile).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 05, 2016, 05:27:46 PM
The GT350 would indeed win from a faster roll; it's losing the 0-60 and 1/4 mile drag race in the first ~100 feet, trying to climb the lower registers in that long first gear.
The GT350's detriment isn't its gearing or lack of "optimization" for acceleration; I stated it is its lack of VVL. Lots of performance cars have as tall or taller gearing, but none I can find under perform its power/weight ratio like the GT350 (at least 0-60 and 1/4 mile).
In terms of mph/rpm, it's not geared all that tall. It's high redline would allow it to be shorter, but that would compromise its on-road manners and make 1st gear a bit obnoxious in normal driving. Journalists have noted that the car, particularly in non-R form, is tricky to launch, and that is probably what hurts it as much as lacking VVL.
As far as poor 0-60 and 1/4 mile times relative to power/weight, the Z28 is just as bad, if not worse.
Quote from: MX793 on January 05, 2016, 05:59:55 PM
In terms of mph/rpm, it's not geared all that tall. It's high redline would allow it to be shorter, but that would compromise its on-road manners and make 1st gear a bit obnoxious in normal driving. Journalists have noted that the car, particularly in non-R form, is tricky to launch, and that is probably what hurts it as much as lacking VVL.
As far as poor 0-60 and 1/4 mile times relative to power/weight, the Z28 is just as bad, if not worse.
I'd have some doubt on tall gearing as a mitigation for tricky driveability. Other cars have had lofty red lines/fuel cut-offs (G37 M/T, S2000) yet had much shorter gearing than the GT350.
The Z/28 is a bit quicker (exact numbers as the 2016 Camaro SS 8AT), but is ~140 lbs heavier and down ~20 hp WRT the GT350.
Tall gearing is for emissions/fuel economy test gaming, and to a degree traction management (keeping acceleration under 1g)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 06, 2016, 12:39:50 PM
Tall gearing is for emissions/fuel economy test gaming, and to a degree traction management (keeping acceleration under 1g)
Tall gearing in first gear isn't going to game the EPA.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 06, 2016, 12:38:20 PM
I'd have some doubt on tall gearing as a mitigation for tricky driveability. Other cars have had lofty red lines/fuel cut-offs (G37 M/T, S2000) yet had much shorter gearing than the GT350.
The Z/28 is a bit quicker (exact numbers as the 2016 Camaro SS 8AT), but is ~140 lbs heavier and down ~20 hp WRT the GT350.
G37 and S2000 don't have 500+hp.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 06, 2016, 12:38:20 PM
I'd have some doubt on tall gearing as a mitigation for tricky driveability. Other cars have had lofty red lines/fuel cut-offs (G37 M/T, S2000) yet had much shorter gearing than the GT350.
The Z/28 is a bit quicker (exact numbers as the 2016 Camaro SS 8AT), but is ~140 lbs heavier and down ~20 hp WRT the GT350.
I didn't say that shorter gearing would make it necessarily trickier to drive, but that it would make it obnoxious. Unlike a small 4-cylinder (S2000), winding a V8 out to 3000-3500 RPM between shifts in normal driving tends to attract attention, especially in something as boisterous as a GT350. Not to mention you burn considerably more fuel (in theory, over 2X as much as an S2000 at the same RPM). As it is geared today, shifting out of first at 2000 in a GT350 would have you traveling at 13-14 mph, which is about where you'd be at 2900 RPM in an S2000. Both are reasonable shift points for their respective sized engines in normal driving in traffic. Since it was brought up, a G37 would be at around 2500 RPM at that speed in 1st, which is, again, not unreasonable for a motor of that size and configuration. That's about where I shifted my old V6 Mustang. Nobody is going to glance over and say "look at the yahoo wringing his motor out to impress people" when you are in fact just tooling along with traffic.
What are we using to classify the gearing as "tall"? MPH/RPM or redline limited max speed for the gear?
In terms of the former, the GT350 has the following:
1st gear: 6.7 mph/1000 rpm
2nd gear: 9.8 mph/1000 rpm
3rd gear: 13.6 mph/1000 rpm
That's about what a regular Mustang GT with 3.55 gears runs (slightly taller first and second, same for 3rd). Shorter gearing in terms of mph/RPM than a Z/28.
The car probably could have gone with a slightly shorter final drive without pushing into the realm of obnoxiously short for street use, perhaps even as short as a G37 in terms of mph/RPM, but that still would have had it topping out at nearly 75 mph in 2nd gear, which sounds pretty tall.
Quote from: MX793 on January 06, 2016, 05:04:54 PM
I didn't say that shorter gearing would make it necessarily trickier to drive, but that it would make it obnoxious. Unlike a small 4-cylinder (S2000), winding a V8 out to 3000-3500 RPM between shifts in normal driving tends to attract attention, especially in something as boisterous as a GT350. Not to mention you burn considerably more fuel (in theory, over 2X as much as an S2000 at the same RPM). As it is geared today, shifting out of first at 2000 in a GT350 would have you traveling at 13-14 mph, which is about where you'd be at 2900 RPM in an S2000. Both are reasonable shift points for their respective sized engines in normal driving in traffic. Since it was brought up, a G37 would be at around 2500 RPM at that speed in 1st, which is, again, not unreasonable for a motor of that size and configuration. That's about where I shifted my old V6 Mustang. Nobody is going to glance over and say "look at the yahoo wringing his motor out to impress people" when you are in fact just tooling along with traffic.
What are we using to classify the gearing as "tall"? MPH/RPM or redline limited max speed for the gear?
In terms of the former, the GT350 has the following:
1st gear: 6.7 mph/1000 rpm
2nd gear: 9.8 mph/1000 rpm
3rd gear: 13.6 mph/1000 rpm
That's about what a regular Mustang GT with 3.55 gears runs (slightly taller first and second, same for 3rd). Shorter gearing in terms of mph/RPM than a Z/28.
The car probably could have gone with a slightly shorter final drive without pushing into the realm of obnoxiously short for street use, perhaps even as short as a G37 in terms of mph/RPM, but that still would have had it topping out at nearly 75 mph in 2nd gear, which sounds pretty tall.
^ Attract attention? I think you're over thinking it. The GT350 has tall gearing esp. for a non-VVL motor, and as a result it's relatively somewhat slow in the lower registers.
He's right about attracting attention. My shift point is 2700-3000 in normal driving. Above 3k and it gets loud and starts to really take off. Very aggressive for driving in any sort of traffic.
Who knows why they decided to go with taller gearing, but in everyday driving (and track/autox) I do prefer taller gears with my gobs of HP.
Uh, not "attracting attention" in a GT350 is a concern of Ford's? (NO.)
Z06 got it's ass handed to it by the Viper ACR at Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst at the wheels. The Z06 broke the production car record for cars under $1 Million, and then the Viper ACR went out and destroyed it by 3 seconds. Since then Randy Pobst has broken that record by a further 2 seconds in the ACR which is the fastest ever by a production car, beating both the P1 and the 918.
Yeah, the ACR is the real deal. The aero is on a totally different level than any other street car that's come before it.
"Street car"
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 12:09:20 PM
"Street car"
Viper ACR is a street car to me.
Don't belittle it's achievement just because you're too big of a pussy to daily one.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 12:09:20 PM
"Street car"
It passes emissions, safety and all other DOT regulations. It can be driven anywhere you can drive a Corolla. Why is it not a street car? :huh:
Passing DOT regulations doesn't mean a car is good for the street
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 12:40:16 PM
Passing DOT regulations doesn't mean a car is good for the street
Well yeah, you sold your Z for a Civic because your Z was too much of a race car for the street. I can see why you wouldn't like the Viper.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
Well yeah, you sold your Z for a Civic because your Z was too much of a race car for the street. I can see why you wouldn't like the Viper.
:nyd: :stirspot: :internetry:
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
Well yeah, you sold your Z for a Civic because your Z was too much of a race car for the street. I can see why you wouldn't like the Viper.
:lol:
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 12:33:01 PM
It passes emissions, safety and all other DOT regulations. It can be driven anywhere you can drive a Corolla. Why is it not a street car? :huh:
It's pushing the limits. I mean, I'd still drive it, but most people never would.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 02:00:41 PM
It's pushing the limits. I mean, I'd still drive it, but most people never would.
Most people would never DD a Miata either.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 02:02:39 PM
Most people would never DD a Miata either.
For completely different reasons though.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 02:00:41 PM
It's pushing the limits. I mean, I'd still drive it, but most people never would.
What are these arbitrary "limits"? Why would most people never drive it if they bought one?
The term "street car" seems pretty simple - if it can be bought at a dealership and driven anywhere any other car can, why is it not a street car?
(I'd also DD one if I could afford the gas mileage, maintenance and upkeep, but I'm guessing if I were in a position to DD a Viper I wouldn't care about those things).
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 02:13:35 PM
For completely different reasons though.
Some of the reasons are the same...
Lol I'm not gonna argue a pretty obvious position - the ACR was not built for the street. It's a track car that meets DOT regs. If you disagree, that's cool.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 03:06:29 PM
Lol I'm not gonna argue a pretty obvious position - the ACR was not built for the street. It's a track car that meets DOT regs. If you disagree, that's cool.
You're right, but it's still a street legal production car.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9qWYJQClIyY/maxresdefault.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 03:11:26 PM
You're right, but it's still a street legal production car.
This is also street legal.
(http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/10-Fastest-Rides-of-Drag-Week-2015-01.jpg)
thefuuuuuuuuk
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 11:03:13 AM
Z06 got it's ass handed to it by the Viper ACR at Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst at the wheels. The Z06 broke the production car record for cars under $1 Million, and then the Viper ACR went out and destroyed it by 3 seconds. Since then Randy Pobst has broken that record by a further 2 seconds in the ACR which is the fastest ever by a production car, beating both the P1 and the 918.
It's a good vid. Note however how M/T absolutely hated the Viper as a car - the exhaust sound, the smell, the ergo, the seats - everything, which has been the Viper's Achilles heal since its inception - it's bad in ways that don't count and don't have to be. It's a shame really. The Viper could have been so much more and of course it should be noted the Viper ACR is a track car with plates and the Z06/Z07 is not. Either way, as long as the Corvette sticks with leaf springs it won't realize its full potential. Nonetheless, the Corvette is a far better car overall.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 03:33:58 PM
This is also street legal.
(http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/10-Fastest-Rides-of-Drag-Week-2015-01.jpg)
That is not a production car. It doesn't have to meet crash regs, noise regs, emissions regs, or any other reg.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2016, 04:33:21 PM
It's a good vid. Note however how M/T absolutely hated the Viper as a car - the exhaust sound, the smell, the ergo, the seats - everything, which has been the Viper's Achilles heal since its inception - it's bad in ways that don't count and don't have to be. It's a shame really. The Viper could have been so much more and of course it should be noted the Viper ACR is a track car with plates and the Z06/Z07 is not. Either way, as long as the Corvette sticks with leaf springs it won't realize its full potential. Nonetheless, the Corvette is a far better car overall.
Neither of these cars are daily drivers, so I don't care which is the better overall car. The Viper is an astounding track car. It costs $130K and absolutely annihilates the 918 and P1.
I see lots of Z06s on the street. No Vipers.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 07, 2016, 05:19:04 PM
I see lots of Z06s on the street. No Vipers.
I see Vipers, Z06s, Ferraris, and McLarens too, but it doesn't mean they're being DD'd.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
Neither of these cars are daily drivers, so I don't care which is the better overall car. The Viper is an astounding track car. It costs $130K and absolutely annihilates the 918 and P1.
Go over to the Vette Forums. I've read post where Z06 owners say it's MORE livable as a DD than the base model. If you had to pick between the two as a DD I pretty sure GM would get your money (and you'd pocket about 30K) 9 times outta 10!
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
Well yeah, you sold your Z for a Civic because your Z was too much of a race car for the street. I can see why you wouldn't like the Viper.
:popcorn:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2016, 04:33:21 PM
Nonetheless, the Corvette is a far better car overall.
+1000 The same people on here defending the Viper (which is clearly a track special) are the same ones that SHIT on the Camaro (Vs. Stang) it for not being "Livable!" :cheers:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 07, 2016, 05:46:55 PM
Go over to the Vette Forums. I've read post where Z06 owners say it's MORE livable as a DD than the base model. If you had to pick between the two as a DD I pretty sure GM would get your money (and you'd pocket about 30K) 9 times outta 10!
:popcorn:
You're right, but I wouldn't DD either of them.
Quote
+1000 The same people on here defending the Viper (which is clearly a track special) are the same ones that SHIT on the Camaro (Vs. Stang) it for not being "Livable!" :cheers:
Mustang/Camaro are a completely different class of car from the Vette/Viper and should be livable.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
Neither of these cars are daily drivers, so I don't care which is the better overall car. The Viper is an astounding track car. It costs $130K and absolutely annihilates the 918 and P1.
Eh, I think a good number of people dd the z06.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
Well yeah, you sold your Z for a Civic because your Z was too much of a race car for the street. I can see why you wouldn't like the Viper.
I like the Viper. I just wouldn't buy one to drive on the street.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 08, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
I like the Viper. I just wouldn't buy one to drive on the street.
I would. Only pussies complain about a Viper being "loud" or "uncomfortable" or "I fry eggs on the door sill". It's a Viper, assholes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 08, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
I like the Viper. I just wouldn't buy one to drive on the street.
I think I would. But not the ACR, or whatever the crazy track model is.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 08, 2016, 07:19:32 AM
I would. Only pussies complain about a Viper being "loud" or "uncomfortable" or "I fry eggs on the door sill". It's a Viper, assholes.
Well, I never wear shorts, so I don't have to worry about a contact burn.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 08, 2016, 07:19:32 AM
I would. Only pussies complain about a Viper being "loud" or "uncomfortable" or "I fry eggs on the door sill". It's a Viper, assholes.
Might even be able to bake cookies.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 08, 2016, 10:38:29 AM
Might even be able to bake cookies.
Only if you leave it running. Revving the engine is how you maintain proper baking temperature.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 07, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
Neither of these cars are daily drivers, so I don't care which is the better overall car. The Viper is an astounding track car. It costs $130K and absolutely annihilates the 918 and P1.
The Z06/Z07 is totally a daily driver, or at least as much so as a base C7 - comfort, ride, amenities. The biggest hassle a DD owner will run into is the PSS Cup 2 tires will wear quickly and be pricey.
My brother's boss (a doctor) used to daily drive his (C6) Z06 for years.
He did eventually get tired of it (after his girlfriend crashed it...twice) and traded it in for an S8.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 08, 2016, 02:46:37 PM
My brother's boss (a doctor) used to daily drive his (C6) Z06 for years.
He did eventually get tired of it (after his girlfriend crashed it...twice) and traded it in for an S8.
Should have traded the girlfriend instead.
Corvette Grandsport to be showed at Geneva
Fuck that is going to be beast mode
Quote from: 68_427 on February 29, 2016, 01:10:17 PM
Corvette Grandsport to be showed at Geneva
I can't afford a C6 GS let alone a new one! :rage:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/672/8/S3816728/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-001-1.jpg)
Quote2017 CORVETTE GRAND SPORT HAS RACING ROOTS
A 'purist' model that leverages a half-century legacy of motorsports success
- Lightweight architecture and track-honed aerodynamics
- An engine offering an estimated 1.05g in cornering capability and up to 1.2g with the available Z07 package
- Coupe and convertible available this summer in U.S. and fall in Europe
- Grand Sport Collector Edition available later in model year
GENEVA – With Corvette Racing in its DNA, the all-new 2017 Corvette Grand Sport is a pure expression of the car's motorsports-bred pedigree. It was introduced today at the Geneva International Motor Show.
Like the 2015 Le Mans-winning Corvette C7.R GTE Pro race car, the new Grand Sport combines a lightweight architecture, a track-honed aerodynamics package, Michelin tires and a naturally aspirated engine.
The 2017 Corvette Grand Sport offers an estimated 1.05g in cornering capability – and up to 1.2g with the available Z07 package.
Heritage-inspired design cues and exclusive features acknowledge the historic Grand Sport legacy, established in 1963 to take on the world's best sports cars. Only five were built before a corporate decision suspending direct motorsports involvement ended the project.
"Racing has been part of Corvette's essence for more than 50 years and that track experience has helped us build better, more capable cars," said Mark Reuss, executive vice president of Global Product Development and Global Purchasing and Supply Chain. "The global acclaim for the seventh-generation Corvette validates that direct link and the 2017 Grand Sport takes its track-bred technology to a new, exciting threshold."
The Corvette Grand Sport coupe and convertible go on sale this summer in the U.S. and in the fall in Europe.
No holding back
Engineers adapted the chassis tuning, upgraded cooling systems, and performance technologies of the Corvette Z06 to give the new Grand Sport capability commensurate with its racing-derived history.
"We didn't hold back with the new Grand Sport," said Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer. "For the first time, buyers can equip the Grand Sport with a Z07 performance package – which adds carbon-ceramic brakes, Michelin Sport Cup 2 summer tires, and carbon-fiber aero package that delivers true downforce."
The result is a potent track car. In fact, the Grand Sport with the Z07 package is less than one second off the track record for the previous-generation Corvette ZR1 on the road course at GM's Milford Proving Ground.
Content highlights for Grand Sport include:
- Michelin Pilot Super Sport summer tires: 285/30ZR19 (front) and 335/25ZR20 (rear)
- Specific Grand Sport wheel design: 19x10 inches (front) and 20x12 inches (rear)
- Brembo brake system with (355 mm) 14-inch rotors and six-piston calipers in front and (340 mm) 13.4 inch rotors and four-piston calipers in the rear
- Standard magnetic ride control, specific stabilizer bars and unique springs
- Standard electronic limited-slip differential
- LT1 V8 engine rated at (343 kW) 460 hp, with dry-sump oiling system and active exhaust
- Seven-speed manual transmission with active rev match and available eight-speed paddle-shift automatic with specific performance calibration
- Available Z07 package adds carbon ceramic-matrix brakes and Michelin Pilot Sport 2 Cup tires.
In addition to track-focused aero elements, the Grand Sport also features specific front fender inserts, a Z06-style grille and wider rear fenders – a distinctive design package that gives the car a track-ready attitude.
Grand Sport models are offered with the Stingray's full exterior and interior color palette. An available Heritage package includes hash-mark fender graphics in six colors, with the hash-mark detail carried onto the interior's brushed aluminum trim. Full-length stripes are also offered.
"The choices are almost endless," said Harlan Charles, Corvette product marketing manager. "The packages take personalization to an unprecedented level, enabling customers to create their own Corvette Grand Sport statement like no other."
Grand Sport Collector Edition
The Grand Sport Collector Edition features an exclusive Watkins Glen Gray Metallic exterior with Tension Blue hash-mark graphics, satin black full-length stripes, black wheels and a unique Tension Blue full leather and suede-wrapped interior.
The Tension Blue color is a bold, modern take on the hue historically associated with the Grand Sport. Inside, a three-dimensional representation of an original Grand Sport race car is embossed in the headrests and that shape is also used on an instrument panel plaque that carries a unique build sequence number.
The Collector Edition will be offered later in the model year in the U.S. and Europe.
Founded in 1911 in Detroit, Chevrolet is now one of the world's largest car brands, doing business in more than 115 countries and selling around 4.0 million cars and trucks a year. Chevrolet provides customers with fuel-efficient vehicles that feature engaging performance, design that makes the heart beat, passive and active safety features and easy-to-use technology, all at a value. More information on Chevrolet models can be found at www.chevrolet.com (http://www.chevrolet.com).
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/672/9/S3816729/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-002-1.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/673/1/S3816731/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-005-1.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/673/0/S3816730/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-004-1.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/673/2/S3816732/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-006-1.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/673/3/S3816733/slug/l/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grandsport-008-1.jpg)
Wow, this is the one to buy. Love that blue and the widebody. Only wish it came with 18" wheels all around, 19s and 20s are just heavier and require more expensive tires.
Am I turning around on the C7? I still don't think it looks like a Corvette, but damn does it look cool.
Quote from: Raza on March 01, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
Am I turning around on the C7? I still don't think it looks like a Corvette, but damn does it look cool.
It's overwrought for sure, but I can't knock its fundamentals.
Will be HELLA interesting to see how this stacks up against the Z06. I am feeling like it won't give up too much thanks to the significantly better balance.
Seems a bit under-powered.
Quote from: FoMoJo on March 01, 2016, 11:06:52 AM
Seems a bit under-powered.
A simple cam swap would do a lot if you want more. 460 seems plenty, though. Lots of very fast guys race cars in that range.
Yep.... Chevy is HP capped with NA LTs it seems, but the aftermarket isn't. FFFF.... I'm seeing I/H/E + cams yielding ~80WHP gains on an LT1.
Not that I plan on buying a Corvette anytime soon (or ever), but I actually like this package more than the Z06. If I am understanding right you essentially get all the handling upgrades (and some other things like the dry sump lubrication upgrade), but keep the normally aspirated V8.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 01, 2016, 11:36:52 AM
Yep.... Chevy is HP capped with NA LTs it seems, but the aftermarket isn't. FFFF.... I'm seeing I/H/E + cams yielding ~80WHP gains on an LT1.
shhh... don't tell the EPA.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on March 01, 2016, 11:37:09 AM
Not that I plan on buying a Corvette anytime soon (or ever), but I actually like this package more than the Z06. If I am understanding right you essentially get all the handling upgrades (and some other things like the dry sump lubrication upgrade), but keep the normally aspirated V8.
And the widebody, which is much better looking.
Quote from: Raza on March 01, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
I still don't think it looks like a Corvette, but damn does it look cool.
:hesaid: I think The C6 has cleaner styling but The C7 is sexy in it's own right........
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 01, 2016, 11:32:49 AM
A simple cam swap would do a lot if you want more. 460 seems plenty, though. Lots of very fast guys race cars in that range.
Another article said they fixed the cooling problems. Boosting the power might reintroduce that problem.
However, 460 is more than enough for a street car.
YESSSS
http://m.chevrolet.com/corvette-grand-sport.html?eVar36=eml_chev_ah_corvette_grandsport_0316_14581035246 (http://m.chevrolet.com/corvette-grand-sport.html?eVar36=eml_chev_ah_corvette_grandsport_0316_14581035246)
This is cool, but I think I would still go for the Z51.
I love the look of this car but this line cracked me up.
Quote
- An engine offering an estimated 1.05g in cornering capability and up to 1.2g with the available Z07 package
Next time I am car shopping I will have to ask which engine offers the most grip.
Quote from: RomanChariot on March 01, 2016, 03:36:56 PM
I love the look of this car but this line cracked me up.
Next time I am car shopping I will have to ask which engine offers the most grip.
Unless perhaps their referring to the engine lubrication system. Sustained high G can result in oil sloshing away from the pickup and starving the engine of oil. However, I think that in this case that's unlikely what they were referring to.
Jesus, 20x12 rear wheels. :mask:
Should run a square setup with that all the way around. :lol:
Quote from: thecarnut on March 01, 2016, 04:35:55 PM
Jesus, 20x12 rear wheels. :mask:
Should run a square setup with that all the way around. :lol:
If they made 12x12s u could run a cubed setup on the Miata :lol:
20x12. The tires for that thing are going to be ridiculous to replace.
The blue one looks so good I can't stop looking at it
(http://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/1480x551/80-2017_chevrolet_corvette_grand_sport_mo_design_embargoed_1480x551_01_2bf8ac182062037f4961814db60b04d543bd000a.jpg)
Damn that blue looks good. First pic of a C7 I've seen that I think looks great.
Couple thoughts
Didn't see any reference to curb weight reduction, but I'm sure that was never a gs trait.
A DCT would have been an awesome bomb to drop on the gs.
More hp would have been nice, not a ton. 500hp would have basically made this a nice half step between a z51 and the overheater. It would have given some of the hard core track guys something to fall back to from the z, if they wanted.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 01, 2016, 09:40:46 PM
Couple thoughts
Didn't see any reference to curb weight reduction, but I'm sure that was never a gs trait.
A DCT would have been an awesome bomb to drop on the gs.
More hp would have been nice, not a ton. 500hp would have basically made this a nice half step between a z51 and the overheater. It would have given some of the hard core track guys something to fall back to from the z, if they wanted.
I'd be interested in seeing the sales numbers of manual vs auto for the last Grand Sport. I'm not sure a DCT would have been worth the cost however I agree with you on the power.
Also that blue car appears to be the standard car with regular aero and steel brakes.
(http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicles/Performance/2017_Corvette_Grand_Sport_Reveal/Model_Overview/01_images/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-mo-design-embargoed-980x476-02.jpg)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on March 01, 2016, 12:23:48 PM
:hesaid: I think The C6 has cleaner styling but The C7 is sexy in it's own right........
I mean, it looks like an exotic. Whenever I see one, especially in a dark color, I'm impressed.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/c8-in-2018-the-latest-on-the-mid-engine-chevrolet-corvette/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/c8-in-2018-the-latest-on-the-mid-engine-chevrolet-corvette/)
Stupid.
Why would GM do this? The Corvette is profitable as is. If they jack up the price, volume will go way down. Performance may be slightly better, but not enough to justify the cost IMO. There are not enough filthy rich guys to support this kind of car.
A mid engined Corvette seemed inevitable in the 70's so hopefully this is just BS again.
The Corvette formula - tiny two seater, space frame chassis, leaf spring suspension - is tapped and has been for a while. Look no further than the new Camaro SS - comes within a stone's throw of matching C7 performance for ~$20k less (and it's pretty obvious both the 1LE and Z28 will exceed it) - and the major handling problems of the C6 Z06 and ZR1 and C7 Z06. Let the Camaro and all its variants (SS, 1LE, Z28, ZL1) carry the high performance front engine/RWD torch and elevate the Corvette to true (near) super car/halo status. The C7 Z06 has been a surprise big seller and my hunch is Chevy is eyeing this demographic for the C8.
Practically speaking, it all sounds unrealistic to me though. GM has been killing it with its hi-po cars but changing the fundamental premise of its most popular marque is a huge deal. There's a new sheriff in town, and she's also been killing it, so perhaps this is true...
Sadness. The Camaro is too big and ugly.
Quote from: Raza on March 01, 2016, 11:23:02 PM
I mean, it looks like an exotic. Whenever I see one, especially in a dark color, I'm impressed.
I really wish GM would have made the A pillar body color. The always black A pillar makes the car look cheap.
It's not hard to fix if you own one
Quote from: GoCougs on May 14, 2016, 01:10:25 PM
The Corvette formula - tiny two seater, space frame chassis, leaf spring suspension - is tapped and has been for a while. Look no further than the new Camaro SS - comes within a stone's throw of matching C7 performance for ~$20k less (and it's pretty obvious both the 1LE and Z28 will exceed it) - and the major handling problems of the C6 Z06 and ZR1 and C7 Z06. Let the Camaro and all its variants (SS, 1LE, Z28, ZL1) carry the high performance front engine/RWD torch and elevate the Corvette to true (near) super car/halo status. The C7 Z06 has been a surprise big seller and my hunch is Chevy is eyeing this demographic for the C8.
Practically speaking, it all sounds unrealistic to me though. GM has been killing it with its hi-po cars but changing the fundamental premise of its most popular marque is a huge deal. There's a new sheriff in town, and she's also been killing it, so perhaps this is true...
This trajectory is stupid and depressing. GM should just leave the Camaro/Corvette as is and offer penis enlargements in the option packages. That's really all this available performance amounts to in the real world.
Avg Corvette driver can't even handle half the HP of something like the new Z06.... what seriously will they get from access to any more performance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5g4KIdGLfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5g4KIdGLfM)
Does seem like a depressingly short generation for a Corvette, and imo I don't see a mid engine corvette as a corvette.
I don't care how good the performance of the Camaro is, the Corvette is and always would be the more desirable car IMO.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 15, 2016, 07:01:04 PM
Does seem like a depressingly short generation for a Corvette, and imo I don't see a mid engine corvette as a corvette.
I don't care how good the performance of the Camaro is, the Corvette is and always would be the more desirable car IMO.
:hesaid:
Quote from: Lebowski on May 15, 2016, 07:01:04 PM
Does seem like a depressingly short generation for a Corvette, and imo I don't see a mid engine corvette as a corvette.
I don't care how good the performance of the Camaro is, the Corvette is and always would be the more desirable car IMO.
Whatever metrics you have used to arrive at that conclusion is irrelevant to the bench racer. The bench racer lives by one C&D instrument test and home made Excel table at a time
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2016, 08:14:18 PM
Whatever metrics you have used to arrive at that conclusion is irrelevant to the bench racer. The bench racer lives
by one C&D instrument test and home made Excel table at a time
But what % of car buyers are they?
If you look at sales numbers, they are right about where they have been. 35k-40k a year for the C7. GM could actually lose money on every mid engine Corvette they sell and then sell a lot fewer of them. I can't see GM doing something this stupid.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2016, 06:21:05 PM
This trajectory is stupid and depressing. GM should just leave the Camaro/Corvette as is and offer penis enlargements in the option packages. That's really all this available performance amounts to in the real world.
Avg Corvette driver can't even handle half the HP of something like the new Z06.... what seriously will they get from access to any more performance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5g4KIdGLfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5g4KIdGLfM)
Almost as bad as Mustang drivers.
Quote from: MX793 on May 15, 2016, 09:58:44 PM
Almost as bad as Mustang drivers.
And Modded Civic drivers.....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2016, 08:14:18 PM
The bench racer lives by one C&D instrument test and home made Excel table at a time
:golfclap:
Quote from: Lebowski on May 15, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
But what % of car buyers are they?
Buyers don't matter. It is the bench racers who must be pleased. Word to the Ring Tuned & Brembo Braked™ ATS-V nobody wants.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on May 15, 2016, 11:06:25 PM
And Modded Civic drivers.....
Can't say I've seen many videos of modded Civics fishtailing into crowds or other cars at car meets.
Traditional (read old farts that drive to dennys, wash wax and repeat) will not buy a mid engined ferrari/lambo vette clone.
Quote from: MX793 on May 16, 2016, 07:27:00 AM
Can't say I've seen many videos of modded Civics fishtailing into crowds or other cars at car meets.
We would if we could!
Quote from: Lebowski on May 15, 2016, 07:01:04 PM
Does seem like a depressingly short generation for a Corvette, and imo I don't see a mid engine corvette as a corvette.
I don't care how good the performance of the Camaro is, the Corvette is and always would be the more desirable car IMO.
Short generations are good - past Corvettes suffered immensely from depressingly long generations (C2 = 10 years, C3 = 15 years, C4 = 13 years).
Save for the relatively few watershed moments in the history of the Corvette - the first few of years of the C4, the C4 ZR1, the first year of the C5, the C5/C6 Z06, the C6 ZR1 - there wasn't a ton of reasons to buy a Corvette over a Camaro beyond styling and H&H
TM. There are entire swaths of Corvette history whereby the Camaro (and Trans Am mid - late '70s) has been as or more desirable, doubly so as the cars age. I mean, kudos for Chevy for trying things out in the Corvette - fiberglass body, fuel injection, 360 hp V8 and full independent suspension was unmatched by any automaker at any price circa 1963. Since the C3 however (when the Camaro and other hi-po pony cars hit the scene), Corvettes have struggled to materially separate themselves.
Fast forward to the C6. In MY2009 the C6 sales figures abruptly dropped by ~50% (the resurrected Camaro went on sale in April '09) and stayed at an unthinkable (and laughable) ~1,000-1,300 units/month for the next five years. Surely bet there were internal talks of letting the marque die. C7 sales rebounded but the Camaro has even more performance goodies and now enter the GT350. I have no idea if the rear mid engine C8 is a reality, but H&H
TM, esp. in this super competitive day and age, can carry a marque only so far. A mid engine C8 sounds crazy, but GM has to get out in front of the conundrum somehow, or the market will do it for them, just as almost happened with the C6 and debut of the resurrected Camaro.
Quote from: MX793 on May 16, 2016, 07:27:00 AM
Can't say I've seen many videos of modded Civics fishtailing into crowds or other cars at car meets.
They can't leave quickly - they have to take off their bumpers so they don't get ripped off on the curb, then crawl out of the parking lot and reattach the bumper.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 16, 2016, 09:13:31 AM
Short generations are good - past Corvettes suffered immensely from depressingly long generations (C2 = 10 years, C3 = 15 years, C4 = 13 years).
Save for the relatively few watershed moments in the history of the Corvette - the first few of years of the C4, the C4 ZR1, the first year of the C5, the C5/C6 Z06, the C6 ZR1 - there wasn't a ton of reasons to buy a Corvette over a Camaro beyond styling and H&HTM. There are entire swaths of Corvette history whereby the Camaro (and Trans Am mid - late '70s) has been as or more desirable, doubly so as the cars age. I mean, kudos for Chevy for trying things out in the Corvette - fiberglass body, fuel injection, 360 hp V8 and full independent suspension was unmatched by any automaker at any price circa 1963. Since the C3 however (when the Camaro and other hi-po pony cars hit the scene), Corvettes have struggled to materially separate themselves.
Fast forward to the C6. In MY2009 the C6 sales figures abruptly dropped by ~50% (the resurrected Camaro went on sale in April '09) and stayed at an unthinkable (and laughable) ~1,000-1,300 units/month for the next five years. Surely bet there were internal talks of letting the marque die. C7 sales rebounded but the Camaro has even more performance goodies and now enter the GT350. I have no idea if the rear mid engine C8 is a reality, but H&HTM, esp. in this super competitive day and age, can carry a marque only so far. A mid engine C8 sounds crazy, but GM has to get out in front of the conundrum somehow, or the market will do it for them, just as almost happened with the C6 and debut of the resurrected Camaro.
Wow, as usual a lot to unpack.
For starters, let's look at the whole context of sporty cars, and Camaro sales. Camaro has pretty much always trailed the Rustang, until very recently. But with the 1999 "New Edge" Stang, Camaro sales fell off a cliff. OK, in 2002 they sold ~41K... but in that same year Ford sold 145K Stangs. And the 4th gen F-body had moved as many as 122K cars. On top of that the pony cars pretty much had the market to themselves. In 99 the S2K was new (and expensive)... there was no Z, RX-8, Genesis Coupe, WRX/STi or EVO. The earliest of these pony car alternatives came in 2002. And yet the Camaro STILL didn't generate enough interest for GM to keep pumping them out. Meanwhile the Corvette kept pushing on at over 2x the price of the dead F-body.
As far as 2009, the whole auto industry contracted by ~35%, and frivolous cars took the brunt of the hit. Ford sold ~174K Stangs in 2007... they sold
46K in 2009. So for the Vette to only have lost half of its sales, while being a much more expensive car, speaks to its desirability.
Back to the market at large though- by 08 sporty coupes had begun their fall out of favor. Z, Z4, RX-8 etc were all down. S2K was put to sleep. The concept of the SUV/pickup truck as status vehicle was born. I guarantee a ton of these brodozer dudes today had pony cars and the like back in 2000. No different with the Vette. So a lot of that decline was just a change in the market :huh:
Now with all that out of the way, if anything it's the Camaro that has grown to big for its britches. An equally equipped, higher status, better handling, more practical C7 only costs ~$13K more than a Camaro 2SS. Camaro is also more expensive than an equally specced Mustang. This is why 6G sales have dropped compared to 5G sales. GM is flying too close to the sun with the Camaro, and if they try to push the Corvette up to 911 Carrera territory they will be in for a rude awakening. Nobody is trying to pay 6 figures for a base trim Corvette... it doesn't matter how good it is. Joe Sixpack doesn't have that much equity in his home left.
Question: Why would a mid/rear engine Corvette be inherently more expensive than the front engine version? Its a unique platform not shared with any other model anyway, no? Porsche's Boxter/Caymen are not that much cheaper.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 16, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
Question: Why would a mid/rear engine Corvette be inherently more expensive than the front engine version? Its a unique platform not shared with any other model anyway, no? Porsche's Boxter/Caymen are not that much cheaper.
Yeah. Barring some exotic materials/construction, I wouldn't expect a bespoke mid-engine platform to cost more than a bespoke front-engine platform.
Well, if Cougs is to be believed, the C8 will spread the gap in performance and desirability, which would come with a commensurate price increase. No different from a 911 costing way more than a Cayman, despite (until recently) essentially having the same engine and chassis (to a large degree). They would charge more because they (think they) can, just as they tried to do with the ATS/CTS ambitious pricing. Whether such a strategy would succeed is another discussion...
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 16, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
Question: Why would a mid/rear engine Corvette be inherently more expensive than the front engine version? Its a unique platform not shared with any other model anyway, no? Porsche's Boxter/Caymen are not that much cheaper.
Two main factors:
1.) MR engine cars by and large are not big sellers so the automaker has to price (recover) accordingly;
2.) Given equivalent tech a MR chassis will require more engineering/design (handling, safety and packaging (anything from engine access to cooling)) and more expensive sub-assemblies (transaxle).
1) It's not like 2-seat RWD cars sell in large quantities as a whole. It's a very niche segment.
2) Corvette already uses a transaxle, so there's that piece out of the way.
And it's not like the Vette shares much in terms of chassis design with anything else GM sells where they could have gotten some economy of scale. Completely different construction from Alpha or Sigma platforms. There would be some learning curve given that GM hasn't ever made a mid-engine production car, but that's not insurmountable.
Pretty much the only thing that sells less than a front engine 2-seater is a mid-engine 2-seater.
The Corvette "transaxle" is just a transmission bolted to a differential. A MR transaxle is a much more complicated and compact beast, particularly that the input shaft has to run parallel to the transmission to get the differential (and thus axles) as close to the engine as possible in order to minimize overall engine/transmission/differential length.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 16, 2016, 09:13:31 AM
Short generations are good - past Corvettes suffered immensely from depressingly long generations (C2 = 10 years, C3 = 15 years, C4 = 13 years).
The C2 was only 5 model years.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 16, 2016, 11:33:47 AM
Question: Why would a mid/rear engine Corvette be inherently more expensive than the front engine version? Its a unique platform not shared with any other model anyway, no? Porsche's Boxter/Caymen are not that much cheaper.
I'd assume a switch to mid engine would take a total redesign of the chassis, suspension, ancillary equipment etc., i.e., a clean sheet of paper design vs. refining-improving an existing design. That's got to cost way more than the evolution from say C5 to C6 or C6 to C7. Those costs would need to amortized over the production run. Plus all the new tooling and jigs, possible plant revisions, etc.
They would never get their money back. They could call it the Alpha II
Quote from: GoCougs on May 16, 2016, 03:05:43 PM
Pretty much the only thing that sells less than a front engine 2-seater is a mid-engine 2-seater.
The Corvette "transaxle" is just a transmission bolted to a differential. A MR transaxle is a much more complicated and compact beast, particularly that the input shaft has to run parallol to the transmission to get the differential (and thus axles) as close to the engine as possible in order to minimize overall engine/transmission/differential length.
Mid-engine, 2-seaters don't sell well because so few offer them, and even fewer of those are at a price that the average, middle-class American could afford them. Off the top of my head, the only mid-engine cars that were affordable in the past 35 or 40 years were the Fiat X1/9 and Toyota MR2/MR-S. The next tier up you had/have cars like the Boxster, Elise, and recently-released Alfa 4C, which start at around the same price point as a Corvette or a bit higher. Beyond that you're into 6-figure exotic territory. The layout doesn't lend itself to platform flexibility or sharing the way a FR layout does (Nissan's FM comes to mind), so from an ROI standpoint, it's hard to justify for such a low volume vehicle. If a company is going to build a sports/sporty car, it's often easier to just go FR since they can amortize some of the cost via leveraging existing designs. If you're committed to investing in a completely bespoke, 2-seat car platform/chassis that will share next to nothing with anything else in your lineup, a MR setup really isn't going to be appreciably more expensive to implement/develop than a FR, provided you have the same level of know-how and expertise to support either configuration.
Plus I'm sure they had to completely retool and all going from the C6 to C7. It's possible, but if they try and get greedy it's going to fail.
I still think Corvette, like Escalade, could branch off into a sub brand. A Corvette Stingray at the bottom, with a MR Zora above it and whatever else they want to add to the line could work. They could even make the next SS under that brand. The C&C Joe HELOC buyers would love it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 16, 2016, 04:16:01 PM
Plus I'm sure they had to completely retool and all going from the C6 to C7. It's possible, but if they try and get greedy it's going to fail.
I still think Corvette, like Escalade, could branch off into a sub brand. A Corvette Stingray at the bottom, with a MR Zora above it and whatever else they want to add to the line could work. They could even make the next SS under that brand. The C&C Joe HELOC buyers would love it.
Given that the C7 was a truly new Corvette (vs the heavy refresh that was the C6), I'd also be surprised if they jumped to another completely new car in 5-6 years. Maybe after 12 years, with another C6-esque generation tossed in to keep it fresh. Or they introduce a new MR car that is distinct from and sold alongside the Corvette as we know it today.
I'd also argue that the Camaro is such a good platform now because of all the R&D done on the Corvette and the subsequent trickle-down. If the Corvette changes the MR they'll lose a lot of the cross-over in R&D design and tuning.
Quote from: MX793 on May 16, 2016, 04:23:45 PM
Given that the C7 was a truly new Corvette (vs the heavy refresh that was the C6), I'd also be surprised if they jumped to another completely new car in 5-6 years. Maybe after 12 years, with another C6-esque generation tossed in to keep it fresh. Or they introduce a new MR car that is distinct from and sold alongside the Corvette as we know it today.
THIS! I believe the Mid Engine car will be a Halo Vette (ZR1) sold along with the Front engined car! Can you say Ford GT fighter?
Quote from: MX793 on May 16, 2016, 04:23:45 PM
Given that the C7 was a truly new Corvette (vs the heavy refresh that was the C6), I'd also be surprised if they jumped to another completely new car in 5-6 years. Maybe after 12 years, with another C6-esque generation tossed in to keep it fresh. Or they introduce a new MR car that is distinct from and sold alongside the Corvette as we know it today.
Yea I don't see them going MR for the C8. It's gotta be a separate model IMO.
Quote from: MX793 on May 16, 2016, 04:08:09 PM
Mid-engine, 2-seaters don't sell well because so few offer them, and even fewer of those are at a price that the average, middle-class American could afford them. Off the top of my head, the only mid-engine cars that were affordable in the past 35 or 40 years were the Fiat X1/9 and Toyota MR2/MR-S. The next tier up you had/have cars like the Boxster, Elise, and recently-released Alfa 4C, which start at around the same price point as a Corvette or a bit higher. Beyond that you're into 6-figure exotic territory. The layout doesn't lend itself to platform flexibility or sharing the way a FR layout does (Nissan's FM comes to mind), so from an ROI standpoint, it's hard to justify for such a low volume vehicle. If a company is going to build a sports/sporty car, it's often easier to just go FR since they can amortize some of the cost via leveraging existing designs. If you're committed to investing in a completely bespoke, 2-seat car platform/chassis that will share next to nothing with anything else in your lineup, a MR setup really isn't going to be appreciably more expensive to implement/develop than a FR, provided you have the same level of know-how and expertise to support either configuration.
It's a demand pull not a push. If "affordable" MR cars sold well enough, automakers would make them.
Let's not forget the most successful selling MR car of all time - the Pontiac Fiero. Apropos to the discussion, take the '86 Fiero GT and its base MSRP of $12,999 compared to the the '86 Z/28 base MSRP of $12,300 and the '86 Mustang GT base MSRP of $11,000. The Fiero's parts sharing + far less capability + equivalent price = relatively more expensive to design and produce.
Ah, how could I have forgotten the Fiero...
The Fiero was developed on a paltry $300 million budget, which included plant retooling. GM also hamstrung the car by deciding it should be an economical commuter rather than a sports car. They largely corrected this with the updates in '88, just in time to kill the model. 4-cylinder models were priced comparably to a VW Rabbit or Plymouth Horizon. It also sold very well initially (something like 40% of total sales were in the first year), but then sales fell as people realized its performance was underwhelming.
Brother-in-law and his brother passing through yesterday. Just picked up the new Stingray in Oshawa that morning. Brief visit, they were on their way to Ottawa for the night. I started it up and took it in for a few minutes... very nice car and quite impressed with the interior. I'll be meeting up with him again later this summer, hope to get a test drive.
(http://rs141.pbsrc.com/albums/r70/rockraven113/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1981_zpszlq092y2.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
(http://rs141.pbsrc.com/albums/r70/rockraven113/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1980_zpsmc4hoxxy.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2013, 04:55:54 PM
Pretty good looking, but a little too busy. I think the C6 looks better.
So, three and a half years later, I'm really liking this. It still doesn't scream "Corvette" to me when I see it; in fact, I saw one today and my brother thought it was an exotic. But man, it's a very good looking car. I'd buy one.
M/T last month had a wrap-up review of its long term C7 and like C&D long term C7 itl wasn't pretty - quality problems (electrical gremlins), manufacturing problems (bad motors) and design problems (loads of squeaks and rattles). I like the concept of the Corvette but Chevy just has never been able to deliver on making it a great car to live with.
Quote from: Raza on June 18, 2016, 10:49:34 PM
So, three and a half years later, I'm really liking this. It still doesn't scream "Corvette" to me when I see it; in fact, I saw one today and my brother thought it was an exotic. But man, it's a very good looking car. I'd buy one.
I frequently have to do a double-take to verify that I'm looking at a Corvette and not a Ferrari. Particularly when I spot one coming straight at me. Fantastic looking car. The interior is pretty nice, too. But, as Cougs noted, the magazine's haven't had good luck with their long term test cars.
Quote from: MX793 on June 19, 2016, 04:32:19 AM
I frequently have to do a double-parked to verify that I'm looking at a Corvette and not a Ferrari. Particularly when I spot one coming straight at me. Fantastic looking car. The interior is pretty nice, too. But, as Cougs noted, the magazine's haven't had good luck with their long term test cars.
Yeah, I guess it is still GM.
Those long termers were first year cars, and by now (hopefully) the issues have been dealt with. The thing that strikes me about Corvettes is how they hold their value. A quick search shows that 10 year old cars, 2006-2007 last gen priced in the 30's... still some 50% of their original msrps. Couple that with low parts and maintenance costs, and it's still one of the better sportscars to buy.
There's a red one with black trim/wheels in Belleville... a Ferrari badge wouldn't look out of place on it. :wub:
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=562287&stc=1&d=1380986111)
Quote from: Rockraven on June 19, 2016, 08:11:14 AM
Those long termers were first year cars, and by now (hopefully) the issues have been dealt with. The thing that strikes me about Corvettes is how they hold their value. A quick search shows that 10 year old cars, 2006-2007 last gen priced in the 30's... still some 50% of their original msrps. Couple that with low parts and maintenance costs, and it's still one of the better sportscars to buy.
There's a red one with black trim/wheels in Belleville... a Ferrari badge wouldn't look out of place on it. :wub:
(http://www.corvette7.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=562287&stc=1&d=1380986111)
I don't know how they hold such value. They make so many of them.
Quote from: Raza on June 19, 2016, 08:49:30 AM
I don't know how they hold such value. They make so many of them.
High demand. At the 30k price point, a lightly used Corvette is an attractive buy for lower middle-class enthusiasts. Buyers also know that original owners tend to baby them. Finally, most dealers will finance an up to 10 yr old Vette.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 18, 2016, 11:15:00 PM
M/T last month had a wrap-up review of its long term C7 and like C&D long term C7 itl wasn't pretty - quality problems (electrical gremlins), manufacturing problems (bad motors) and design problems (loads of squeaks and rattles). I like the concept of the Corvette but Chevy just has never been able to deliver on making it a great car to live with.
The Corvette has transcended to the point that it can now provide a true world class sports car experience
(http://www.corvetteblogger.com/images/content/2014/081314_14.jpg)
(http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/imported/2014/02/Porsche1JPG-1.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8bNpWqak--/18n8yig1ns1u3jpg.jpg)
(http://www.blogbulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/lamborghini-gallardo-fire-athens-1.jpg)
De prices HIYAH
Corvette on FIYAH
Feelin HOT HOT HOT :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 19, 2016, 10:33:40 AM
The Corvette has transcended to the point that it can now provide a true world class sports car experience
(http://www.corvetteblogger.com/images/content/2014/081314_14.jpg)
(http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/imported/2014/02/Porsche1JPG-1.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8bNpWqak--/18n8yig1ns1u3jpg.jpg)
(http://www.blogbulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/lamborghini-gallardo-fire-athens-1.jpg)
De prices HIYAH
Corvette on FIYAH
Feelin HOT HOT HOT :lol:
I laughed, I cried...
I lurk and read the corvette forums frequently. First, the first hear car thing is bs, people are still having issues with these. Secondly, the used corvette market is interesting. A corvette guy selling wants top dollar, usually higher than dealer book, the same guy as a buyer wants to pay less than trade in and will pick apart your dime a dozen corvette. Sure a lot of people are lime that. Never seen a worse case than the corvette guys though.
Quote from: Raza on June 19, 2016, 07:39:57 AM
Yeah, I guess it is still GM.
The Corvette for various reasons has had livability issues since it debuted in '53 yet GM has made some fantastic cars since then.
The intro of new Corvette generations are generally groundbreaking but GM just doesn't spend the time to get the details right, which is a shame given how long previous Corvette generations have lasted.
IMO, GM spends too much money on things that don't really help (leaf springs, goofy tech, maybe even space frame chassis) rather than spending time on things like reliability/durability and quality.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 19, 2016, 10:50:28 AM
I lurk and read the corvette forums frequently. First, the first hear car thing is bs, people are still having issues with these. Secondly, the used corvette market is interesting. A corvette guy selling wants top dollar, usually higher than dealer book, the same guy as a buyer wants to pay less than trade in and will pick apart your dime a dozen corvette. Sure a lot of people are lime that. Never seen a worse case than the corvette guys though.
That's cus the FOG original owners think they are the holy grail of cars, and the used buyers have the "it's American and not a Porsche" view on depreciation lol
Quote from: GoCougs on June 19, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
The Corvette for various reasons has had livability issues since it debuted in '53 yet GM has made some fantastic cars since then.
The intro of new Corvette generations are generally groundbreaking but GM just doesn't spend the time to get the details right, which is a shame given how long previous Corvette generations have lasted.
IMO, GM spends too much money on things that don't really help (leaf springs, goofy tech, maybe even space frame chassis) rather than spending time on things like reliability/durability and quality.
Disagree with your last sentence. GM keeps the basic Corvette fundamentals... pushrod V8, highly engineered transverse leaf springs, which is a Corvette signature and helps make it one of the best handling cars out there, and the space frame is a necessity of the fiberglass/composite body... another Corvette signature. The "goofy" tech is a necessity of the market. If your competitors offer it you pretty much have to.
Quote from: Rockraven on June 19, 2016, 08:11:14 AM
Those long termers were first year cars, and by now (hopefully) the issues have been dealt with. The thing that strikes me about Corvettes is how they hold their value. A quick search shows that 10 year old cars, 2006-2007 last gen priced in the 30's... still some 50% of their original msrps. Couple that with low parts and maintenance costs, and it's still one of the better sportscars to buy.
I'm watching too and I see 2008-2009 in that prices range with moderate miles! It's nothing to find a 2008 for 25K with 40-50K on it! I'm also watching GS models and they are still in the mid to upper 30s for a 2010 hardtop!
Quote from: Rockraven on June 19, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Disagree with your last sentence. GM keeps the basic Corvette fundamentals... pushrod V8, highly engineered transverse leaf springs, which is a Corvette signature and helps make it one of the best handling cars out there, and the space frame is a necessity of the fiberglass/composite body... another Corvette signature. The "goofy" tech is a necessity of the market. If your competitors offer it you pretty much have to.
Corvette competitors - F-type, 911, Cayman/Boxter, maybe even the GT350 and Z/28, etc. - don't use that stuff however.
The Corvette is also a fantastic autocross/track car that I bet is used a lot more than its competitors, at least based off of my experience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: GoCougs on June 19, 2016, 01:04:59 PM
Corvette competitors - F-type, 911, Cayman/Boxter, maybe even the GT350 and Z/28, etc. - don't use that stuff however.
The Corvette kicks their asses.
You sure changed your tune in the past two pages.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 19, 2016, 01:04:59 PM
Corvette competitors - F-type, 911, Cayman/Boxter, maybe even the GT350 and Z/28, etc. - don't use that stuff however.
That's like dismissing the 911... no other car offers a goofy rear engine. I don't want the Corvette to be like the others. I want it to be a Corvette.
I'm digging Admiral blue
(http://i.imgur.com/TVEeShB.jpg)
Black Rose:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8LnXox-7oS0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8LnXox-7oS0)
AB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tVQtjs67o0M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tVQtjs67o0M)
I think it looks best in red, actually. Or gray.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 19, 2016, 10:33:40 AM
De prices HIYAH
Corvette on FIYAH
Feelin HOT HOT HOT :lol:
:clap:
(http://i0.wp.com/macmulkincorvette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC_1214.jpg)
:neverforget:
(http://macmulkincorvette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2017-corvette-grand-sport-black-rose-metallic-14.jpg)
http://youtu.be/JXylNx5pC70 (http://youtu.be/JXylNx5pC70)
Nurburger :lol:
This is where I hide my back pills from my grandkids.
Quote from: 68_427 on June 21, 2016, 09:44:54 PM
(http://macmulkincorvette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2017-corvette-grand-sport-black-rose-metallic-14.jpg)
I love that color...
LOL @ 4 Play!!!!!
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2016, 09:27:07 PM
http://youtu.be/JXylNx5pC70 (http://youtu.be/JXylNx5pC70)
Nurburger :lol:
What's a corvit?
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on June 29, 2016, 04:34:46 PM
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news)
Thats for the link, I'm going to print it out and put it in the scrapebook with all the other "insert next generation corvette code" is going to be mid engined articles.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 29, 2016, 06:15:41 PM
Thats for the link, I'm going to print it out and put it in the scrapebook with all the other "insert next generation corvette code" is going to be mid engined articles.
Shit's getting out of hand bro.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1e/01/b5/1e01b500a8c33f0fe940aa4310c89084.jpg)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on June 29, 2016, 04:34:46 PM
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-c8-spy-photos-news)
A mid-engine platform with a modern engine, maybe. Oh good, maybe the Ford GT will have some competition now. :ohyeah:
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 30, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
A mid-engine platform with a modern engine, maybe. Oh good, maybe the Ford GT will have some competition now. :ohyeah:
The Midvette will probably be 1/4 the price of the GT.
Quote from: Rockraven on June 30, 2016, 07:08:06 PM
The Midvette will probably be 1/4 the price of the GT.
That too. At least the race versions will be comparable. I doubt Ford will make many more GTs though.
Sporty proven right again.....
http://www.motor1.com/news/65630/2017-chevrolet-corvette-z06-to-get-cooling-improvements/ (http://www.motor1.com/news/65630/2017-chevrolet-corvette-z06-to-get-cooling-improvements/)
Cool
(Hehe)
Although I will point out that it says the issues may have been less than 5% of the cars. It definitely wasn't all of them - out of curiosity I asked a well-known owner of one of the companies in the pro-touring scene and he said he's had zero issues with his. He runs his cars hard, so I thought it was strange that he didn't have any problems yet some people apparently had massive issues. But any upgrades are welcome.
Quote from: 68_427 on June 20, 2016, 09:47:33 PM
(http://i0.wp.com/macmulkincorvette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/DSC_1214.jpg)
Lol. My brother just custom ordered a Grand Sport EXACTLY in this colour scheme.
Nice. Hope he didn't get black wheels.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 21, 2016, 09:26:36 PM
Lol. My brother just custom ordered a Grand Sport EXACTLY in this colour scheme.
Is he getting rid of the Viper?
Quote from: Raza on July 22, 2016, 08:04:58 AM
Is he getting rid of the Viper?
Dunno about the wheels, probably the gunmetal ones like the pic. Bro sold the Viper 3 years ago. His ridiculous divorce put a damper on his car acquisitions for awhile.
Quote from: Rockraven on July 22, 2016, 08:56:54 AM
Dunno about the wheels, probably the gunmetal ones like the pic. Bro sold the Viper 3 years ago. His ridiculous divorce put a damper on his car acquisitions for awhile.
Oh, I had no idea.
5% seems like a lot. Do 5% of Z06 owners even track their cars, or is this happening on the street too?
Quote from: afty on July 22, 2016, 02:35:28 PM
5% seems like a lot. Do 5% of Z06 owners even track their cars, or is this happening on the street too?
I would think the Z06 owner is much more likely to go to a track than the owner of a mere cooking grade vette.
The Z06 badge is mainly bought for VIP access at C&C. Joe HELOC can't afford to + doesn't have the balls/skill to burn through $3K worth of consumables at a track day :lol:
I think you underestimate the income that some "rednecks" have.
C7.R won again today, to total 100 wins in IMSA. :dance:
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--pnZyafKj--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_1600/nfnxdgjamltozyytanhr.jpg)
Do they make a C7 convertible? And if they do, have they sold any? I feel like I've only ever seen the coupe.
Quote from: Raza on July 25, 2016, 10:32:55 PM
Do they make a C7 convertible? And if they do, have they sold any? I feel like I've only ever seen the coupe.
(http://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1015/80-img_2821_145f7b8c7f8276efc655f58517fc137738066498.jpg)
(http://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1316/80-img_2796_9218eb26431ba0f5754c2aa4d701dd86da3a6e29.jpg)
(http://macmulkincorvette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2017-corvette-grand-sport-black-rose-metallic-14.jpg)
Hmm. That's been the problem with the Corvette convertible, since like 1971. It's doesn't look as good as the coupe.
Fastbacks generally look worse as convertibles, IMO.
I think as a convertible the base trim looks best.
(http://nnycc.com/misc1/MurphyC7.jpg)
(http://www.stingrayforums.com/forum/attachments/stingray-corvette-discussions/2124d1386861708-post-your-c7-convertible-here-pictures-videos-limerock-convertible1.jpg)
Haha Lutz
C7 GS with a cam upgrade is peak Corvette.... splits the difference between the LT1 and LT4 with none of the LT4's heft or cooling problems. True Corvette GT3
Supposedly Katech had leaked that they've been working on a "LT5" for GM.
This page has since been removed from their website.
(http://i.imgur.com/ooZhKRo.jpg)
Quote from: Raza on July 26, 2016, 04:54:15 AM
Hmm. That's been the problem with the Corvette convertible, since like 1971. It's doesn't look as good as the coupe.
Very few Soft Tops look as good as the Coupe version! As a Vert I think the C6/C7 Vettes are some of the best looking Verts top UP or DOWN!
Quote from: afty on July 22, 2016, 02:35:28 PM
5% seems like a lot. Do 5% of Z06 owners even track their cars, or is this happening on the street too?
If we count autocrossing as tracking, then a ton of Vette owners track their cars.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 30, 2016, 05:45:23 PM
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review)
Interesting review, although a bit crazy that it can be optioned close to (or in) 6 figures.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 26, 2016, 04:08:12 PM
Very few Soft Tops look as good as the Coupe version! As a Vert I think the C6/C7 Vettes are some of the best looking Verts top UP or DOWN!
Even with the top down. Most two seat convertibles beat the look of their coupe counterparts with the roof off. The Corvette doesn't, unfortunately.
The whole back end of the convertible corvette with the top down just looks like a giant brick.
Quote from: MrH on August 02, 2016, 06:59:37 AM
The whole back end of the convertible corvette with the top down just looks like a giant brick.
Yeah, I think that's been the issue for several generations now.
They want to maintain a giant trunk, but it looks goofy without having a long, streamlined hatch coming to meet it.
Quote from: MrH on August 02, 2016, 07:21:32 AM
They want to maintain a giant trunk, but it looks goofy without having a long, streamlined hatch coming to meet it.
Although, from some angles, it doesn't look too bad:
(http://image.automotive.com/f/features/editors-picks/60-years-of-chevrolet-corvette/41984648+w968/c6-chevrolet-corvette-convertible-rear.jpg)
(C6, of course)
And the less adorned C7s do look better in convertible form than the busier trims:
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jasonfogelson/files/2014/10/1022_FL-chevrolet-2015-corvette_2000x1125-1152x648.jpg)
C6 verts are decent, C5 is terrible, C7 is okay-ish.
C5 gets a lot of love in the hood with that badonkadonk
The last Corvette convertible that was really very pretty...
(https://s32.postimg.org/wfnoexikl/chevrolet_corvette_2000x1331_Jan_20_2013_19_18_5.jpg)
Designers, for the most part, have lost their way over the past half century.
1st generation should look the best. It was the only generation that was designed exclusively as a convertible (there was no Corvette coupe until 1963). 2nd and 3rd generation Corvette convertibles looked good. C4 was just OK. C5 was bad. C6 was OK. C7 is bad.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/fewer-than-25-percent-of-new-chevrolet-corvettes-have-manual-transmissions/
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 03, 2016, 11:34:48 PM
http://blog.caranddriver.com/fewer-than-25-percent-of-new-chevrolet-corvettes-have-manual-transmissions/
Next generation, the headline will be "Fewer than 25% of new Corvettes have manual-driving option".
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/)
Sources: Mid-engine Corvette due in 2019
(https://s32.postimg.org/r1yyjlhrp/636058496215549178_c8_fr3_4.jpg)
Looks like an Evora. Photoshop, I imagine.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 03, 2016, 11:34:48 PM
http://blog.caranddriver.com/fewer-than-25-percent-of-new-chevrolet-corvettes-have-manual-transmissions/
That actually seems higher than it has been in the past.
I want to say the number I've heard most often is 15%; for decades, and a quick browsing of Hemming with different filters on suggests it's way lower than that.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 04, 2016, 09:14:20 AM
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/)
Sources: Mid-engine Corvette due in 2019
(https://s32.postimg.org/r1yyjlhrp/636058496215549178_c8_fr3_4.jpg)
I feel like I've heard "mid-engine corvette coming in 20XX" at least once a year for the last decade. I'll believe it when I see it.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 04, 2016, 10:05:34 AM
That actually seems higher than it has been in the past.
I want to say the number I've heard most often is 15%; for decades, and a quick browsing of Hemming with different filters on suggests it's way lower than that.
I thought the MT take rate went up in the 90s after they ditched the 4+3 for the 6mt. I thought it was close to 40% for the C5.
Quote from: MX793 on August 04, 2016, 10:49:06 AM
I thought the MT take rate went up in the 90s after they ditched the 4+3 for the 6mt. I thought it was close to 40% for the C5.
You could be right.
And of course these days, the M/T hasn't advanced a ton whereas the slushie has come light years. The upcoming 10sp GM AT is supposedly the "real" DSG contender (the current 8sp, though very good, didn't quite live up to that).
The 8sp AT is supposed to be a pretty good transmission.
Quote from: afty on August 04, 2016, 02:37:54 PM
The 8sp AT is supposed to be a pretty good transmission.
Complaints about it being very sluggish and unresponsive in the CTS-V. And prone to overheating in the Corvette when driven hard.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 03, 2016, 11:34:48 PM
http://blog.caranddriver.com/fewer-than-25-percent-of-new-chevrolet-corvettes-have-manual-transmissions/
Probably because the enfeebled old farts who buy them can't work the clutch. ;)
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 04, 2016, 09:14:20 AM
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/08/04/sources-mid-engine-corvette-due/88054852/)
Sources: Mid-engine Corvette due in 2019
(https://s32.postimg.org/r1yyjlhrp/636058496215549178_c8_fr3_4.jpg)
When did this rumor first surface? 1966 or thereabouts? I've sometimes suspected Chevrolet starts those kind of rumors knowing it's the same as buying a 3-4 page ad in the car rags.
Isn't the C7 only like 2 years old at this point? Why would GM shit all over it by introducing another brand new Vette in 2019? Unless they are planning on spinning off the Vette brand and keeping the current C7 as the entry model and positioning this guy higher, I don't see the point.
2018 ZR1 rumored to have 750 hp version of the LT4: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-spied-news
Welp. one thing for sure, GM has its work cut out for it. Despite all the tech and newness the C7 Z06 was barely a better performer than the C6 ZR1. Not sure how the same chassis that struggles with 650 hp is going to handle 750 hp.
I wonder if that will be the "LT5" leaked on Katech's site?
Also when the hell will the Grand Sport be on the configurator? There's already over 900 on Autotrader
Quote from: CLKid on August 04, 2016, 05:39:40 PM
When did this rumor first surface? 1966 or thereabouts? I've sometimes suspected Chevrolet starts those kind of rumors knowing it's the same as buying a 3-4 page ad in the car rags.
I've read that Chevy Dealerships are taking deposits on C8 Vettes.
Quote from: Xer0 on August 05, 2016, 12:12:04 AM
Isn't the C7 only like 2 years old at this point? Why would GM shit all over it by introducing another brand new Vette in 2019? Unless they are planning on spinning off the Vette brand and keeping the current C7 as the entry model and positioning this guy higher, I don't see the point.
The C8 will be a separate model....
Just like the Aerovette!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on August 05, 2016, 07:34:06 AM
I've read that Chevy Dealerships are taking deposits on C8 Vettes. The C8 will be a separate model....
What I mean is, will be sold at the same time, or is the C7 being phased out in favor of the C8.
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Quote from: Xer0 on August 05, 2016, 03:55:35 PM
What I mean is, will be sold at the same time, or is the C7 being phased out in favor of the C8.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think this will be the first step towards "Corvette" being a brand rather than a model. They'll have the front-engine, more affordable C7 and then the exotic/supercar mid-engine C8. "C8", if it is to be its own model, may not even be called "C8". May call it a Zora or something like that.
Seems ridiculous to do all this emergency R&D on a low volume car with so many unique components. I doubt the rumors are true.
Quote from: Laconian on August 05, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Seems ridiculous to do all this emergency R&D on a low volume car with so many unique components. I doubt the rumors are true.
Eh - it's probably been in the works for awhile.
And it might be used on Cadillac stuff
Or might actually be a Cadillac....
Or they just stuck a funky Corvette body on a Pantera to mess with reporters
Quote from: MX793 on August 05, 2016, 04:07:25 PM
I think this will be the first step towards "Corvette" being a brand rather than a model. They'll have the front-engine, more affordable C7 and then the exotic/supercar mid-engine C8. "C8", if it is to be its own model, may not even be called "C8". May call it a Zora or something like that.
I've heard Zora thrown around also!
Quote from: Laconian on August 05, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Seems ridiculous to do all this emergency R&D on a low volume car with so many unique components. I doubt the rumors are true.
This is GM dude what do you expect :lol:
If the mid engine vette didn't happen during the Bob Lutz era, I just find it unlikely to happen now.
Quote from: MX793 on August 05, 2016, 04:07:25 PM
I think this will be the first step towards "Corvette" being a brand rather than a model. They'll have the front-engine, more affordable C7 and then the exotic/supercar mid-engine C8. "C8", if it is to be its own model, may not even be called "C8". May call it a Zora or something like that.
(http://www.zorro.com/wp-content/uploads/cc_resize/005-1200x542.jpg)
?
Quote from: Raza on August 06, 2016, 06:53:14 AM
(http://www.zorro.com/wp-content/uploads/cc_resize/005-1200x542.jpg)
?
Zora Arkus-Duntov: Father of the Corvette.
Quote from: MX793 on August 06, 2016, 06:59:51 AM
Zora Arkus-Duntov: Father of the Corvette.
Was that not a picture of him? :lol:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-mid-engine-chevrolet-corvette-reveals-chopped-front-end/
Looks like mid engined Vette really is coming.
(http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2016/09/mid-engine-chevrolet-corvette-13.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=around%7C660%3A440&crop=660%3A440%3B%2A%2C%2A)
Given how dominate Chevy has been in the C&D lightning lap, I expect this car to absolutely haul ass around a track.
It doesn't make any sense. The Grand Sport weighs 300lbs more than the GT3 RS, has 40 less horsepower, and a manual transmission. I mean hell the GT3 RS they tested was A/C and Radio delete.
I would bet the corvette makes more average horsepower. That's the secret of a strong midrange. I would not be surprised if the Gran Sport were a little underrated too. Of the two I'd still rather have the Porsche
Nah I don't think that's it. The Vette probably out tires the GT3. Same as the Z06, they mentioned that besides the one hot run, the others where a second or two off. I don't know how consistent the GT3 was, but they made a point of mentioning it for the Vette.
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Quote from: Xer0 on September 14, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Nah I don't think that's it. The Vette probably out tires the GT3. Same as the Z06, they mentioned that besides the one hot run, the others where a second or two off. I don't know how consistent the GT3 was, but they made a point of mentioning it for the Vette.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Both have Pilot Sport Cup 2s. The GT3 RS size is 265/325 and the Corvette I believe is 285/335
Interesting that the one lap was a bit of an outlier. :cheers:
Quote from: 68_427 on September 14, 2016, 09:58:32 PM
Both have Pilot Sport Cup 2s. The GT3 RS size is 265/325 and the Corvette I believe is 285/335
Interesting that the one lap was a bit of an outlier. :cheers:
The Corvette tires are designated as "ZP". I think its a Z06/Z07 specific tire, but I'm not sure what's different about it than your run of the mill Cup 2s.
I was trying to look it up but all I could find is that the vette tires are runflats
GS just beat the 991.2 C2S
Both really good cars but the GS was faster around Willow Springs and had more character
I would still get the 911.... thing hit 0-60 in 3.1s :mask:, looks better, and aurally 6>8 to me.... but I have to give respect where it's due, the C7 GS is the best Corvette of all time by a wide, wide margin
The GS was probably on avg 4-5 mph faster at the apex on almost every corner. That 911 boogies down the straights. Gap would have been wider if it wasn't PDK equipped.
Damn that Porsche is aspirational though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 05, 2016, 08:41:11 AM
GS just beat the 991.2 C2S
Both really good cars but the GS was faster around Willow Springs and had more character
I would still get the 911.... thing hit 0-60 in 3.1s :mask:, looks better, and aurally 6>8 to me.... but I have to give respect where it's due, the C7 GS is the best Corvette of all time by a wide, wide margin
I'd take a GS all day! And with the rest I saved by not buying the Porsche I'd buy a nice 4x4 for the winter months.....
Sorry that compare was on Motor Trend... video will probably be up next Monday.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 05, 2016, 11:44:33 AM
The GS was probably on avg 4-5 mph faster at the apex on almost every corner. That 911 boogies down the straights. Gap would have been wider if it wasn't PDK equipped.
Damn that Porsche is aspirational though.
Do you know what tires the Porsche had on it? Doesn't look like Porsche makes any super hi po options available for the C2 which I guess makes sense
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 07, 2016, 11:20:25 AM
Sorry that compare was on Motor Trend... video will probably be up next Monday.
Do you know what tires the Porsche had on it? Doesn't look like Porsche makes any super hi po options available for the C2 which I guess makes sense
Also consider the C2 was a second faster than the 991 GT3 as well. You could watch the Porsche murder the Corvette in MPH down the straights
Quote from: 68_427 on October 07, 2016, 12:53:42 PM
Also consider the C2 was a second faster than the 991 GT3 as well. You could watch the Porsche murder the Corvette in MPH down the straights
Apparently the C2S puts down 380WHP/WTQ vs 400/300 WTQ for the GT3. I betchu average HP on the C2 is higher, especially from a dig.... but then, 9000 RPM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 07, 2016, 11:20:25 AM
Sorry that compare was on Motor Trend... video will probably be up next Monday.
Do you know what tires the Porsche had on it? Doesn't look like Porsche makes any super hi po options available for the C2 which I guess makes sense
Depending on which wheel size, the OE tires are either GY Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s or Pirelli P Zeros. Both are pretty good tires, though a class behind something like the Sport Cup 2.
I feel like the Vette has like a foot wider rubber total at all 4 corners too. That plus the crazy aero and wider track can't hurt
I hope they bring back the Carrera GTS. That's actually gonna be pretty crazy
I'm willing to bet the tires on the C7 are not much bigger than the steamrollers on the Porsche!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 05, 2016, 08:41:11 AM
GS just beat the 991.2 C2S
Both really good cars but the GS was faster around Willow Springs and had more character
I would still get the 911.... thing hit 0-60 in 3.1s :mask:, looks better, and aurally 6>8 to me.... but I have to give respect where it's due, the C7 GS is the best Corvette of all time by a wide, wide margin
Even if a Corvette is faster around a track, a 911 is always more desirable than a Corvette :huh:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 07, 2016, 05:06:23 PM
I'm willing to bet the tires on the C7 are not much bigger than the steamrollers on the Porsche!
Vette comes with a lot more tire. 285/335 F/R, either Michelin PSSes or PSC2s depending on if you have the Z07 package or not. C2S has 245/305 Pirelli P-zeros, which are not quite as good as the PSS, but in the same performance category.
Quote from: SVT_Power on October 08, 2016, 09:23:03 AM
Even if a Corvette is faster around a track, a 911 is always more desirable than a Corvette :huh:
Unless you're racing :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 08, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
Unless you're racing :huh:
Being that most Corvette/911 owners don't race..........................................
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 08, 2016, 12:23:02 PM
Being that most Corvette/911 owners don't race..........................................
Every autocross and track event I go to is filled with fast Vettes, sometimes a couple 911s
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 08, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Every autocross and track event I go to is filled with fast Vettes, sometimes a couple 911s
It's not the fast cars you find at the race track that make up most of the owners, it's the ones at the ice cream shop.
Vette's a a relatively rare sight at auto-x events here. 911s are rarer.
Quote from: MX793 on October 08, 2016, 04:04:11 PM
Vette's a a relatively rare sight at auto-x events here. 911s are rarer.
You're in upstate NY right? Around here, Vettes are everywhere. 911s are very rare though.
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Quote from: Xer0 on October 08, 2016, 05:11:27 PM
You're in upstate NY right? Around here, Vettes are everywhere. 911s are very rare though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Much like 5G Camaros, Vettes of the past couple of generations are pretty common on the street. Just don't see them participating at any local motorsport activities. Maybe some of them take their cars to the local dragstrip. Wouldn't know; not my scene. Most of the owners are the stereotypical midlife crisis crowd.
Lots of Vette guys doing CAM-S now. And the Optima events (2-3 911s in that too)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 08, 2016, 06:15:54 PM
Lots of Vette guys doing CAM-S now. And the Optima events (2-3 911s in that too)
Not here. The few I've seen run have predominantly run the stock/street class. Not sure, in my 6 years of running, I've seen a Vette older than a C4 compete, and the last time I saw a C4 run was before CAM existed. C5 seems to be the most common generation (of the 5 Vettes I saw this year, 4 of them were C5s).
CAM isn't particularly popular here in general. The few cars I've seen in it are true classic cars (25+ years old) or Cobra kits on street tires (since CAM-S has a way better handicap than E-Mod).
The most common cars I've seen at events locally over the years are WRXes, Miatas, and Frizbees (in that order).
Quote from: SVT_Power on October 08, 2016, 09:23:03 AM
Even if a Corvette is faster around a track, a 911 is always more desirable than a Corvette :huh:
Of course! It's a Premium car from a premium brand! The fact that a Chevy is mentioned in the same breath as a 911 is a win for the Corvette.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 08, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
Unless you're racing :huh:
I wouldn't pay anywhere near $100k for a car if all I cared about was tracking it :huh:
Quote from: SVT_Power on October 11, 2016, 01:36:38 PM
I wouldn't pay anywhere near $100k for a car if all I cared about was tracking it :huh:
That's nothing for most guys who are serious about it. Most guys have more than that invested in their truck + trailer.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 11, 2016, 01:51:49 PM
That's nothing for most guys who are serious about it. Most guys have more than that invested in their truck + trailer.
We're talking about buying sports cars, not race cars :huh:
If all I cared about was how fast I could go on a track, I'd probably buy a Viper ACR. But for buying a street car, I'd probably skip both Viper and Corvette. Okay maybe not skip the Viper, because Viper.
Even street cars are towed to & from the track. Most guys don't wanna be left stranded if they break something, plus then they can bring more tools and equipment.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 11, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Even street cars are towed to & from the track. Most guys don't wanna be left stranded if they break something, plus then they can bring more tools and equipment.
Again, if I was shopping for a sports car, track prowess wouldn't be at the top of my shopping criteria :huh:
Just thinking about what those would be, I think top 3 for me would be
1. How much do I like it
2. How does it look
3. How does it drive (I think this is almost a moot point since at that price point/class of cars, the baseline of how something drives is so much better than average already anyway)
Towing your car to the track is for bitches. :devil:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 11, 2016, 02:23:09 PM
Towing your car to the track is for bitches. :devil:
Well, it does suck to shove your only way home into a wall...
Taxi/Uber/ambulance/how don't u have any buddies at the track that can give u a ride?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 11, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Well, it does suck to shove your only way home into a wall...
Or just AAA it....
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 11, 2016, 04:03:01 PM
Or just AAA it....
:nono:
Then you can't fake an accident and make insurance pay for the bodywork
Surprised I haven't seen this posted yet (unless I missed it earlier). Watched it today. Was an interesting watch...surprised how expensive this Corvette is though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbtoXMOiqtQ&t=1145s
The "street spec" GS is $65K if youre ok with the "base" interior.
That 911 is ridiculously fast for how much power it supposedly makes.
Quote from: afty on November 09, 2016, 10:22:54 PM
That 911 is ridiculously fast for how much power it supposedly makes.
I feel like cars (or really engines) are so powerful today that speed is as much about having a chassis that can effectively apply that power as having a powerful engine itself.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 10, 2016, 06:07:20 AM
I feel like cars (or really engines) are so powerful today that speed is as much about having a chassis that can effectively apply that power as having a powerful engine itself.
Probably true today(or the last few years), but germans have consistently done more with less power for a long time. I think just better components and more time spent fine tuning is what gets them there.
Quote from: afty on November 09, 2016, 10:22:54 PM
That 911 is ridiculously fast for how much power it supposedly makes.
It all adds up
959 did 0-60 in 3.6... but while this has less HP and only RWD, it has way bigger + more modern tires, PDK, launch control, longer wheelbase (smoother weight transfer), less weight. It's the perfect storm for getting out of the hole with 2 drive wheels
It also traps significantly higher than the more-powerful Corvette -- 120 vs 116 mph. I think the Germans are sandbagging it with their power ratings, especially for turbocharged engines.
Quote from: afty on November 10, 2016, 11:46:46 AM
It also traps significantly higher than the more-powerful Corvette -- 120 vs 116 mph. I think the Germans are sandbagging it with their power ratings, especially for turbocharged engines.
Gearing and shift speed play a huge part. The PDK shifts far faster than a human rowing a stick, which means that the pauses (in which the car is coasting rather than accelerating) are shorter. All things being equal, the car that shifts faster will have both quicker times and higher trap speeds. If the 911 had had a traditional MT, it would have been a much closer race.
It puts down about what you'd expect for its power rating (369WHP... ~13% loss)
http://www.cobbtuning.com/porsche-carrera-development-turbos-for-all/
911s just put the power down. And the PDK keeps it coming fast. I think I would still choose the 7MT though.
Quote from: MX793 on November 10, 2016, 11:52:32 AM
Gearing and shift speed play a huge part. The PDK shifts far faster than a human rowing a stick, which means that the pauses (in which the car is coasting rather than accelerating) are shorter. All things being equal, the car that shifts faster will have both quicker times and higher trap speeds. If the 911 had had a traditional MT, it would have been a much closer race.
Fairly certain the base 911 with 7MT traps @ 117mph. Per Motortrend
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 10, 2016, 12:28:54 PM
It puts down about what you'd expect for its power rating (369WHP... ~13% loss)
http://www.cobbtuning.com/porsche-carrera-development-turbos-for-all/
911s just put the power down. And the PDK keeps it coming fast. I think I would still choose the 7MT though.
And the new one makes about 380whp. 369 was the old model, but still about what we'd expect. I'm actually pretty surprised they picked up 30whp on the old engine with a 93 tune.
PDK what with launch control and quick shifts is probably worth 0.5 sec in the 1/4 mile. The 911 is also rear engine which helps launches. In a drag race a lot is decided in that first 60 feet.
Quote from: afty on November 10, 2016, 11:46:46 AM
It also traps significantly higher than the more-powerful Corvette -- 120 vs 116 mph. I think the Germans are sandbagging it with their power ratings, especially for turbocharged engines.
The Grand Sport traps low because it's packing the Z06 Stage II aero package without any more power than the Base Corvette. The Z06 Zero package is ridiculously aggressive and the reason why even the Z06 doesn't trap nearly as well as it should despite 650 HP.
Also the PDK shifts faster and stays on boost compared to a manual.
In base form and with an auto, the Corvette will trap 119, even in convertible form
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-convertible-8-speed-automatic-review
Kind of crazy that these things will go from 0 to double the speed limit in the distance between like 2 traffic lights. A couple MPH here or there is purely academic
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 05:32:45 AM
Kind of crazy that these things will go from 0 to double the speed limit in the distance between like 2 traffic lights. A couple MPH here or there is purely academic
Yeah maybe I am just getting old, but to me the HP race is over. You can get a car with more than enough power to go ridiculously fast in just about any segment. In the sports/performance car category the power figures are amazing. I am mean a ~35k Mustang or ~40k Camaro are so far beyond what any normal person could safely use on the road.
Maybe when I am older and rich I will be able to buy one of these cars just for track use. that would be pretty fun.
Vette is about as fast as my bike (same 1/4.... bike is faster out of the hole but Vette traps 12 MPH higher) so this level of performance is just right. I wouldn't be topping these things out but there's nothing quite like a quick throttle squirt in top gear giving you a 15-20 MPH jump. This level of performance allows you to be really lazy and still cover ground and space assertively
I wonder if the Vette is going to get the 10 speed they are putting in the ZL1
That might put the 7MT to sleep :(
Quote from: 565 on November 10, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
The Grand Sport traps low because it's packing the Z06 Stage II aero package without any more power than the Base Corvette. The Z06 Zero package is ridiculously aggressive and the reason why even the Z06 doesn't trap nearly as well as it should despite 650 HP.
Also the PDK shifts faster and stays on boost compared to a manual.
In base form and with an auto, the Corvette will trap 119, even in convertible form
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-convertible-8-speed-automatic-review
Enough aero to materially affect trap speed will also affect ET, and the GS ran a 12.2, which based on a healthy sampling of M/T C7 road tests, is right in line with non-GS C7s (averaging 12.2 @ 117). 8sp C7s are quicker than their M/T counterparts so that's not an apt comparison.
The M/T C7 Z06 is relatively slow in the 1/4 mile (~11.5 @ 125) because of hugely tall gearing (66 mph in 1st, 93 mph in 2nd, 124 mph in 3rd). The 8sp C7 Z06 is significantly quicker (~11.0 @ 128) primarily because it has far more aggressive gearing (45 mph in 1st, 71 mph in 2nd, 102 mph in 3rd, 126 mph in 4th), so much so it has an entire extra gear to exploit during its trip down the strip.
66mph in first? Sweet baby Jesus on a candle stick.
I think my dad's Camaro gets to 60 in first with similar power. That's with a 6500 redline, not sure what the Vette's is
Quote from: GoCougs on November 11, 2016, 11:12:55 AM
Enough aero to materially affect trap speed will also affect ET, and the GS ran a 12.2, which based on a healthy sampling of M/T C7 road tests, is right in line with non-GS C7s (averaging 12.2 @ 117). 8sp C7s are quicker than their M/T counterparts so that's not an apt comparison.
The M/T C7 Z06 is relatively slow in the 1/4 mile (~11.5 @ 125) because of hugely tall gearing (66 mph in 1st, 93 mph in 2nd, 124 mph in 3rd). The 8sp C7 Z06 is significantly quicker (~11.0 @ 128) primarily because it has far more aggressive gearing (45 mph in 1st, 71 mph in 2nd, 102 mph in 3rd, 126 mph in 4th), so much so it has an entire extra gear to exploit during its trip down the strip.
Yes the Auto Corvette is faster than the Manual, that's why it's a more apt comparison to a PDK 911 S.
Basically he was asking why the 911 trapped so much higher than the GS with less power. Part of it is the Auto vs manual and the other part is the aero.
The Stage II aero package definitely shaves a mph or 2 off the top. Since the difference is mostly in the last few moments of the run, the change in ET is minimal.
Look at the base C7 vette 7M
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up
vs the GS
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review
The GS nips the base Corvette by a 10th to 60mph, due to larger stickier tires.
They tie in the ET, but the base C7 is traveling just a bit quicker.
Then the C7 just murders the GS from then on out.
C7 0-150: 20.7 sec
GS 0-150: 24.1 sec
In more detail it looks like the C7 and are neck and neck till 100mph, building it's lead faster as speeds increase
C7 GS Diff
0-70 4.8 4.7 -0.1
0-80 6.0 6.1 +0.1
0-90 7.2 7.3 +0.1
0-100 8.6 8.7 +0.1
0-110 10.5 10.8 +0.3
0-120 12.5 12.9 +0.4 (1/4 Mile happens somewhere around here)
0-130 14.7 15.5 +0.8
0-150 20.9 24.1 +3.2 (C7 murders the GS from 130-150, as expected with aerodynamic drag being the square of speed)
The C7 GS/Z06neeeds some type of retractable Aero instead of that fixed rear spoiler.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on November 11, 2016, 08:13:48 PM
The C7 GS/Z06neeeds some type of retractable Aero instead of that fixed rear spoiler.
:nono:
Looks way more badass as-is
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on November 11, 2016, 08:13:48 PM
The C7 GS/Z06neeeds some type of retractable Aero instead of that fixed rear spoiler.
I agree. I opted out of the fixed rear spoiler on my V' for the same reason.
Quote from: 565 on November 11, 2016, 04:18:17 PM
Yes the Auto Corvette is faster than the Manual, that's why it's a more apt comparison to a PDK 911 S.
Basically he was asking why the 911 trapped so much higher than the GS with less power. Part of it is the Auto vs manual and the other part is the aero.
The Stage II aero package definitely shaves a mph or 2 off the top. Since the difference is mostly in the last few moments of the run, the change in ET is minimal.
Look at the base C7 vette 7M
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up
vs the GS
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review
The GS nips the base Corvette by a 10th to 60mph, due to larger stickier tires.
They tie in the ET, but the base C7 is traveling just a bit quicker.
Then the C7 just murders the GS from then on out.
C7 0-150: 20.7 sec
GS 0-150: 24.1 sec
In more detail it looks like the C7 and are neck and neck till 100mph, building it's lead faster as speeds increase
C7 GS Diff
0-70 4.8 4.7 -0.1
0-80 6.0 6.1 +0.1
0-90 7.2 7.3 +0.1
0-100 8.6 8.7 +0.1
0-110 10.5 10.8 +0.3
0-120 12.5 12.9 +0.4 (1/4 Mile happens somewhere around here)
0-130 14.7 15.5 +0.8
0-150 20.9 24.1 +3.2 (C7 murders the GS from 130-150, as expected with aerodynamic drag being the square of speed)
Z51: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette/2014/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-first-test/
1/4 mile: 12.2 @ 117
Grand Sport: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-corvette-grand-sport-manual-test-review
1/4 mile: 12.2 @ 117
A couple of tenths and a couple of mph is well within the noise; drivers, tire condition (esp. on testers), track condition and atmo conditions (normalizing algos are only estimates) yield a certain process window to account for factors and variation.
This comparison plays out with other such aero packages such as the GT350 vs. GT350R; i.e., no discernible difference in 1/4 mile performance. The trap speeds would have to be huge and the aero package very aggressive (the likes of which you'd never see on the street) to make a difference. For example, simply look at the various NHRA classes. The lower classes, which are vastly quicker than any street car (9 - 10 sec 1/4 mile), are relatively agnostic WRT aero - simply look at the cars - anything from a '50s shoe box to a '70s Corvette to a modern Camaro or Mustang. If aero made a material difference, each class would regress toward a specific body style.
The 911 is far quicker in the 1/4 mile than the Corvette despite having lower power/weight ratio, because of PDK, rear engine chassis, and a bit shorter gearing in 4th.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 11, 2016, 08:23:22 PM
:nono:
Looks way more badass as-is
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/hsxpxcijiS2CQ/giphy.gif)
That is a needlessly complex, but cool spoiler thing. But a horrible gif.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 12, 2016, 05:09:45 AM
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/hsxpxcijiS2CQ/giphy.gif)
But when it's parked you don't see anything. Unless it does that constantly. That'd be cool.
They should make it do that whenever you lock/unlock the doors.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 12, 2016, 12:13:56 PM
They should make it do that whenever you lock/unlock the doors.
If the car is in sport or sport+
Simple on/off button will suffice.
Grand Sport Makes the 10 best list! Along with the Camaro and the Bolt. Good job GM.....
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2017-10best-cars-the-best-cars-for-sale-in-america-today-feature
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-corvette-stingray-zr1-spy-photos-news
A 4 cammer and flat-plane crank doesn't really make sense IMO. That's not Chevy's thing.
Flat plane crank would be awesome
Kind of funny how the Viper died for being too extreme, and now the Corvette is becoming super extreme. They might as well call this thing the Corvette ACR.
:confused: This is just one model in the entire Corvette lineup. A Stingray with magneride, leather interior, and an automatic is a pretty plush car.
As the GT350 has shown, the flat plane crank stuff is for the name only - materially, it's DOA as evidenced by the decade-old LS7 let alone the upcoming Z28 motor - it's only for stratospheric levels of HP.
The Viper's problem wasn't that it was too "extreme" it's that it was purposefully crude and harsh and terrible to live with. The Corvette is the opposite of that, in all incarnations.
Specific to this car, the C7 Z06 has enough issues putting power down (as did the C6 Z06 and C6 ZR1 before it). I can't imagine another 100-150 hp is gonna make that any better. Either way, the C7 Z06 has been a big sales success, and that's what it's all about.
Quote from: MrH on November 30, 2016, 06:56:44 AM
:confused: This is just one model in the entire Corvette lineup. A Stingray with magneride, leather interior, and an automatic is a pretty plush car.
Not the whole lineup, just certain iterations
Z06 has it bad enough, ZR1 is either going to be a track day only special or a GT500 style mess
Other than difficulty putting all of the power down, the Z06 is reportedly pretty comfortable and docile when driven at speeds that won't get you arrested. Not really any worse than a regular Vette.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on November 19, 2016, 10:01:15 PM
Grand Sport Makes the 10 best list! Along with the Camaro and the Bolt. Good job GM.....
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2017-10best-cars-the-best-cars-for-sale-in-america-today-feature
No car this ugly can be the best of anything, because setting your eyes upon it may cause a Medusa-like petrification.
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/16q4/671589/chevrolet-bolt-2017-10best-cars-feature-car-and-driver-photo-672534-s-original.jpg)
Quote from: Raza on November 30, 2016, 02:07:17 PM
No car this ugly can be the best of anything, because setting your eyes upon it may cause a Medusa-like petrification.
(http://media.caranddriver.com/images/16q4/671589/chevrolet-bolt-2017-10best-cars-feature-car-and-driver-photo-672534-s-original.jpg)
GM must be doing something right to cause you to get hard looking at one of their cars.
Other than the grill I like it. Or at least, I don't mind it.
Quote from: RomanChariot on November 30, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
GM must be doing something right to cause you to get hard looking at one of their cars.
:lol: :lol:
Quote from: RomanChariot on November 30, 2016, 02:52:43 PM
GM must be doing something right to cause you to get hard looking at one of their cars.
You've always got to work blue, don't you, RC?
Quote from: Raza on November 30, 2016, 03:17:40 PM
You've always got to work blue, don't you, RC?
It was too easy to pass up. I actually think the Bolt has the potential to be a good seller for GM. The people that I know who have Chevy Volts really seem to like them and the Bolt has the potential to have a broader appeal.
Bolt does not look CR-V enough to move units.... that's the only safe bet these days.
The Bolt's biggest challenge by far is that it is made by Chevy. In feature/function/performance I have little doubt that it will be ahead of Tesla Model 3, however, Si Valley types and wannabees are bound to have issues with the MURICANISM of a Big Three brand.
I think that could be its biggest asset. Volume wise Si Valley and the techy PNW is insignificant. If they can sell these to commuters they will have something to talk about.
Industry really needs to coalesce on a standard charger though. It's getting ridiculous
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2016, 06:06:00 PM
The Bolt's biggest challenge by far is that it is made by Chevy. In feature/function/performance I have little doubt that it will be ahead of Tesla Model 3, however, Si Valley types and wannabees are bound to have issues with the MURICANISM of a Big Three brand.
Also consider Tesla will begin to charge you (HUEHUEHUE) for using it's superchargers.
/DRIVE is reporting that a GM doc included a DOHC V8 on some official documents. It's a Y-code (Corvette only) and named the LT5.
With the mid-engined rumors and spyshots, I think they're making a Ford GT competitor that'll use the LT5. Could also be used in a ZR-1. We'll have to wait and see.
:popcorn:
The $19,000 2014 Corvette............
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-general-discussion/3909500-just-purchased-a-2014-c7-1lt-flood-car-or-is-it.html
If you look further down in the document the Corvette does not show the "LT5" as an option.
To "compete" with $100k+ hard core performance cars these days you need either very light weight or 600+ hp. The former is hard, the latter is easy, and GM already has the 650 hp LT4 cued up, plus let's also not forget GM was getting 505 hp out of a pooprod V8 a dozen years ago (with today's tech, a DOHC V8 would have to be at 600+ hp to best an equivalent pooprod).
A 3,200 lb ZR1 powered by a 600 hp DOHC N/A V8 sounds just a bit too exotic for GM. Not impossible, given GM's recent track record with performance cars, but such a vehicle is super car territory. It would be interesting but I'm gonna guess the "LT5" is vaporware.
911 GT3 lapped the Hockenheimring in 1:08.5, only 0.2 seconds quicker than the GS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I344iiAK4IY
:rockon:
Looked pretty puckering. Wonder if PTM was in Race or everything off?
Wowzers, that dude can drive, esp. that shifting...
I was thinking it was a pretty sloppy lap. If I remember I will see what I can do tonight in a stock C7 ZR1.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 31, 2017, 12:02:12 PM
I was thinking it was a pretty sloppy lap. If I remember I will see what I can do tonight in a stock C7 ZR1.
Can you de-tune? Otherwise a stock C7 with grippier tires might be a better comparison.
There's no such thing as a C7 ZR1...?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 31, 2017, 12:02:12 PM
I was thinking it was a pretty sloppy lap.
lol yeah if I was in the passenger seat I would have been terrified.
Quote from: MrH on January 31, 2017, 12:24:22 PM
There's no such thing as a C7 ZR1...?
Z06 I meant.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 31, 2017, 12:20:35 PM
Can you de-tune? Otherwise a stock C7 with grippier tires might be a better comparison.
Naw the only C7 is the Z06. Maybe I can do a C6 with upgraded tires. Close enough
No way this would pas at a track day :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5NlQOOgoZ4
The C7 puts a whipping on Ford at Sebring.........
https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/sebring-12h-wtr-cadillac-wins-again-corvette-beats-ford-in-gtlm-883859/
:rockon:
Kudos.
Not really. Ford led most of the race
Quote from: 68_427 on March 19, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
Not really. Ford led most of the race
Yeah, I know. Yellow flags and all that. Seems like a Porsche was setting a good pace as well though.
Was at a local Autoshow this weekend... If you want some humour, try pushing on the front "splitter", side skirts, and rear spoiler on the Z07 package.
Hint, a real functioning front splitter doesn't get attached to the bumper and flex with a few pounds of force, same for the rear. Sideskirts probably can't support more then about 10 pounds before falling off.
-Sigh-
Ferrari used that same technology and calls it active aero
...No...
They put "wings" in the front bumper of the 458 that "deform" with speed to increase downforce
Quote from: 68_427 on March 27, 2017, 05:56:29 AM
They put "wings" in the front bumper of the 458 that "deform" with speed to increase downforce
I know... and that's not what GM is trying to pull off at all
It's a cheap and effective way to do it.
Win-Win :lol:
If the front splitter managed to do anything, it would rip the bumper off :facepalm:
Same with the trunk lid winglets
You've got Z06s running over 180mph every weekend across the country and no splitters or rear spoilers have blown off......
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on March 27, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
You've got Z06s running over 180mph every weekend across the country and no splitters or rear spoilers have blown off......
Naw, surely r0tors wide eyed speculations outweigh real life
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2017, 10:46:50 AM
Naw, surely r0tors wide eyed speculations outweigh real life
LOL!
I'd def hit a Grand Sport, first Vette since the C5 Z06 that I've been excited about reading the reviews.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on March 27, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
You've got Z06s running over 180mph every weekend across the country and no splitters or rear spoilers have blown off......
Which means their aero is a complete gimmick... Which was my main point but thanks for verifying my assumptions
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
Which means their aero is a complete gimmick... Which was my main point but thanks for verifying my assumptions
I suggest you read the early reviews of Z07 equipped C7s. MT removed the Wicker Bill and the rear of the car got loose according to R. Pobst. And another sign the Aero worked was the Z06 wasn't carrying as much speed as it should on the straights due to all the downforce.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on March 27, 2017, 02:34:34 PM
I suggest you read the early reviews of Z07 equipped C7s. MT removed the Wicker Bill and the rear of the car got loose according to R. Pobst. And another sign the Aero worked was the Z06 wasn't carrying as much speed as it should on the straights due to all the downforce.
And ran the same time iirc :wanker:
It should be fairly common sense something attached to a trunk lid really isn't going to be making hundreds of pounds of downforce or create hundreds of pounds of drag... I doubt anyone would want to stand on their vettes trunk lid anyway
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 02:42:50 PM
And ran the same time iirc :wanker:
It should be fairly common sense something attached to a trunk lid really isn't going to be making hundreds of pounds of downforce or create hundreds of pounds of drag... I doubt anyone would want to stand on their vettes trunk lid anyway
Spoilers don't make downforce. They reduce lift. Also introduce drag.
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 02:42:50 PM
And ran the same time iirc :wanker:
It should be fairly common sense something attached to a trunk lid really isn't going to be making hundreds of pounds of downforce or create hundreds of pounds of drag... I doubt anyone would want to stand on their vettes trunk lid anyway
How come SCCA dudes bolt 8" tall plexiglass panels to their trunklids then?
Functional front splitter... It bolts to the chassis
(http://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/parts-marketplace/793124d1388710954-carbon-fiber-undertray-splitter-997-2-gt3-rs-img_3820.jpg)
Cosmetic aero... It bolts to the bumper
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OPsAAOSwX~dWmHZY/s-l300.jpg)
Quote from: MX793 on March 27, 2017, 02:53:35 PM
Spoilers don't make downforce. They reduce lift. Also introduce drag.
Spoilers make downforce and ridiculous amounts of drag - See NASCAR
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 03:44:53 PM
Spoilers make downforce and ridiculous amounts of drag - See NASCAR
It's a math equation. Channeling air out from the under car reduces lift, therefore increasing downforce even if the plastic piece does nothing to push the car down. Same with flat bellies.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 27, 2017, 03:46:36 PM
It's a math equation. Channeling air out from the under car reduces lift, therefore increasing downforce even if the plastic piece does nothing to push the car down. Same with flat bellies.
Spoilers create downforce based on deflecting airflow. Undercar "ground effects" work by creating low pressure under the car. Completely different principles
Stick on aero looks so cool though
(https://www.southerncarparts.com/images/ACS/45-4-113/45-4-113a.jpg)
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 03:50:20 PM
Spoilers create downforce based on deflecting airflow. Undercar "ground effects" work by creating low pressure under the car. Completely different principles
Low pressure doesn't need to play a factor at all - simply redirecting the air so it can't go underneath and push up on the car is good enough.
You're the one calling it a spoiler and then saying it doesn't fit your definition of a spoiler. :hammerhead:
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 03:44:53 PM
Spoilers make downforce and ridiculous amounts of drag - See NASCAR
An airfoil or wing creates lift/downforce, spoilers don't. A spoiler "spoils" airflow, causing it to break away cleanly from the surface, triggering what is generally referred to as a "stall". This results in a reduction in lift on the top surface of the car (or whatever, planes use them too). On a stock car, the spoiler doesn't direct any airflow upwards. It traps a pocket of air behind the rear windscreen and forces air to separate higher up, kind of like the tailgate of a pickup truck traps a pocket of air in the bed and forces the airflow over the truck to behave almost like it has a cap (and drag in a pickup is worse at speed with the tailgate down or removed than up). Depending on vehicle shape, it may even reduce overall drag by reducing turbulence (see: pop-up spoiler on the roof of 1st generation New Beetles).
Besides the traditional NASCAR tail spoiler on the trunk lid, the pop-up flaps that were added to NASCAR vehicles ~20 years ago that prevent the cars from going airborne when they spin around are also spoilers. Low pressure on top of the car when it's not traveling straight ahead pulls them up and then upset the airflow to prevent lift from hoisting the whole car in the air. Many aircraft, particularly those with really efficient wing forms, also utilize pop-up spoilers on the tops of their wings to cut lift during landings.
All of the "downforce" on a NASCAR is generated by the front of the vehicle and underbody ground effects. That spoiler isn't generating any actual downforce. It's simply reducing, or completely canceling, the amount of lift on the tail.
The fastback shape of a Corvette would also make the rear prone to generating lift, so a tall spoiler on the back results the air breaking off in a manner that cuts the lift on the hatch.
This is a pretty good article (with pictures).
https://www.quora.com/How-much-downward-force-does-a-spoiler-produce-and-is-it-significant-enough-to-make-a-positive-impact-on-acceleration (https://www.quora.com/How-much-downward-force-does-a-spoiler-produce-and-is-it-significant-enough-to-make-a-positive-impact-on-acceleration)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 27, 2017, 04:19:45 PM
Low pressure doesn't need to play a factor at all - simply redirecting the air so it can't go underneath and push up on the car is good enough.
You're the one calling it a spoiler and then saying it doesn't fit your definition of a spoiler. :hammerhead:
You need low pressure to actually generate positive downforce, which is what underbody ground effects and diffusers do.
Quote from: MX793 on March 27, 2017, 04:27:39 PM
You need low pressure to actually generate positive downforce, which is what underbody ground effects and diffusers do.
Absolutely. I was just saying that the Corvette pieces can improve downforce without generating it. Most street cars do it that way, since diffusers are expensive and not speedbump friendly.
Quote from: MX793 on March 27, 2017, 04:25:13 PM
An airfoil or wing creates lift/downforce, spoilers don't. A spoiler "spoils" airflow, causing it to break away cleanly from the surface, triggering what is generally referred to as a "stall". This results in a reduction in lift on the top surface of the car (or whatever, planes use them too). On a stock car, the spoiler doesn't direct any airflow upwards. It traps a pocket of air behind the rear windscreen and forces air to separate higher up, kind of like the tailgate of a pickup truck traps a pocket of air in the bed and forces the airflow over the truck to behave almost like it has a cap (and drag in a pickup is worse at speed with the tailgate down or removed than up). Depending on vehicle shape, it may even reduce overall drag by reducing turbulence (see: pop-up spoiler on the roof of 1st generation New Beetles).
Besides the traditional NASCAR tail spoiler on the trunk lid, the pop-up flaps that were added to NASCAR vehicles ~20 years ago that prevent the cars from going airborne when they spin around are also spoilers. Low pressure on top of the car when it's not traveling straight ahead pulls them up and then upset the airflow to prevent lift from hoisting the whole car in the air. Many aircraft, particularly those with really efficient wing forms, also utilize pop-up spoilers on the tops of their wings to cut lift during landings.
All of the "downforce" on a NASCAR is generated by the front of the vehicle and underbody ground effects. That spoiler isn't generating any actual downforce. It's simply reducing, or completely canceling, the amount of lift on the tail.
The fastback shape of a Corvette would also make the rear prone to generating lift, so a tall spoiler on the back results the air breaking off in a manner that cuts the lift on the hatch.
This is a pretty good article (with pictures).
https://www.quora.com/How-much-downward-force-does-a-spoiler-produce-and-is-it-significant-enough-to-make-a-positive-impact-on-acceleration (https://www.quora.com/How-much-downward-force-does-a-spoiler-produce-and-is-it-significant-enough-to-make-a-positive-impact-on-acceleration)
Only partial credit on that answer
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--nd2xVcDG--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/exuai4ws9dpxypbpy5iv.jpg)
The air does get directed upwards and there is forward force on the car created from the change of momentum of the air upwards. This portion of the downforce is no different then the angle of attack on a wing.
That dude is in the right church, just not exactly the right pew
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 04:38:01 PM
Only partial credit on that answer
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--nd2xVcDG--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/exuai4ws9dpxypbpy5iv.jpg)
Might want to brush up on how to read CFD charts...
If the spoiler (picture on top) were generating actual downforce, you wouldn't see all of that blue (which is low-pressure, turbulent air) several inches above it. The Wing (CoT style) on the lower car is actually generating downforce as the airflow is actually hitting it. There's also a clear pressure gradient (higher on top, lower on the bottom) between the top and bottom of the wing. Don't confuse wake with airflow direction. That plot is showing pressures, not airflow direction.
Here's one with actual flow lines. You'll note that the flow lines aren't, overall, diverting upwards. Those that are are the same ones that were pulled downwards (which indicates lift) by the slope of the roof, so the spoiler is merely correcting those and canceling that lift..
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6d079d9ea04a24070f2c2991bb0674c1-c)
Another side-by-side. Again, you'll note there's no meaningful upward diversion of air with the spoiler. The wing, on the other hand...
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-df42f7c18fc6ec077329eb151848e615-c)
I understand cfd... Thanks
What the author fails to conceive is that despite the net effect of the streamtubes not going dramatically verticle, the streamtubes have been effected in a vertical nature. To displace airflow requires a force... I really don't have the time to write a thesis on why the author doesn't have a complete handle on what is going on
Back 30years ago Nascar teams made the rear spoiler flimsy enough they would lay down at straightaway speeds and stand back up at turn speeds. They now require supports every so many inches to keep the spoiler up. There is a tremendous force on their rear spoiler that if integrated balances out the change in air flow.
r0tor is drunk again guys tread lightly
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Bumpers are bolted to the chassis genius.
(https://m.popkey.co/c02f14/J5mG7_s-200x150.gif)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 27, 2017, 06:22:23 PM
(https://m.popkey.co/c02f14/J5mG7_s-200x150.gif)
The bumper cover isn't structural genious
Legit front splitter... Not fastened to a bumper cover
(http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/gallery/1278795702/gallery_70258_34341_13317688494c3e42a0a0553.jpg)
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101460-Designing-Aerodynamics-for-Track-Performance
Quote
Air Dams / Spoilers:
A front spoiler is typically an add-on piece partially for style & partially for function. They come in a gazillion shapes & dimensions. Many known as "chin spoilers" mount at a rake angle. An air dam is typically a vertical panel either added on, or built into, the nose bodywork of the car. The shape of this vertical panel typically follows the shape the nose bodywork. In racing, extender lips are often added to the air dam that can be adjusted to just touch the track to better seal off air.
Both air dams & front spoilers are designed to reduce airflow underneath the car, to reduce lift. Air dams are more effective at sealing the car's bodywork to the track, so they are capable of almost eliminating airflow getting underneath the front of the car in the corners. Spoilers don't usually get this low, nor cover all the way across the front of the car as well. For this reason, I think of spoilers as "under car airflow reducers" & air dams as under car airflow eliminators."
A well designed front spoiler or air dam reduces the volume of air getting under the car. This creates a low pressure area & vacuum effect to help hold the front end down through the corner. Front spoilers & air dams don't create downforce in the typical sense. They do so by reducing lift & creating a low pressure vacuum area, helping to suck the front of the car down to the track.
A well designed front spoiler or air dam ... combined with a sizable splitter ... reduces lift, creates a low pressure vacuum area ... and adds downforce on the splitter ... creating more net downforce than the spoiler or air dam would create on their own.
Splitters:
Attach at the front of the car, under the air dam or nose bodywork, and have a flat surface typically ranging from 1-5" running parallol with the ground line. Their role is to split the airflow that goes underneath the car ... from the airflow that goes up & over the hood or around the side of the fenders. Very short ones split the airflow to a degree ... and reduce lifting force ... but create very little downforce. This is a nice, solid gain in front downforce by reducing the lift. Short splitters can be mounted without braces if well attached to the air dam or bodywork.
Longer splitters split the airflow more positively and create downforce on the front of the car. This is a big gain in front downforce, increasing front tire grip, making the car run flatter, improving turning ability, increasing corner speeds. Because the airflow is actually putting downforce on the longer splitter, the splitter needs supports to prevent it from buckling under.
(http://i.imgur.com/kcMipOe.jpg)
If you want your Pro-Touring car to be a serious track car, adding a quick on/off splitter you can run at the track is a big gain. Take it off to load in the trailer, dive on the street, etc ... and just put it on at for track days.
Do you read your own crap? Short splitters do nothing, long ones create downforce and then give you a picture of a race car with serious bracing on the front splitter to keep it from breaking.
My original point - hey look at the crap stage 3 aero GM brags up and down creating class leading downforce and it's a small ass piece of stuck on crap that does shit.
...Also their theory understanding is poor...
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 06:15:54 PM
I understand cfd... Thanks
What the author fails to conceive is that despite the net effect of the streamtubes not going dramatically verticle, the streamtubes have been effected in a vertical nature. To displace airflow requires a force... I really don't have the time to write a thesis on why the author doesn't have a complete handle on what is going on
Back 30years ago Nascar teams made the rear spoiler flimsy enough they would lay down at straightaway speeds and stand back up at turn speeds. They now require supports every so many inches to keep the spoiler up. There is a tremendous force on their rear spoiler that if integrated balances out the change in air flow.
Not to be the guy who likes to play this card, but you seem to forget that I was an aerospace engineering major with a grad degree in aero/mech, and all of the aero/fluid dynamics background that goes with it.
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 07:26:16 PM
Do you read your own crap? Short splitters do nothing, long ones create downforce and then give you a picture of a race car with serious bracing on the front splitter to keep it from breaking.
My original point - hey look at the crap stage 3 aero GM brags up and down creating class leading downforce and it's a small ass piece of stuck on crap that does shit.
...Also their theory understanding is poor...
The second post in the thread I linked to has this bit:
Quote
2. If we see it different ... let's just agree to disagree & go run 'em on the track. Arguing on an internet forum just makes us all look stupid. Besides, that's why they make race tracks, have competitions & then declare winners & losers.
Quote from: MX793 on March 27, 2017, 07:28:01 PM
Not to be the guy who likes to play this card, but you seem to forget that I was an aerospace engineering major with a grad degree in aero/mech, and all of the aero/fluid dynamics background that goes with it.
Seems like you don't know I also took a couple aero classes...
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 07:56:44 PM
Seems like you don't know I also took a couple aero classes...
Your teachers weep... That spoilers are not lift/downforce generating devices is Aero 101.
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2017, 06:38:55 PM
Legit front splitter... Not fastened to a bumper cover
(http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/gallery/1278795702/gallery_70258_34341_13317688494c3e42a0a0553.jpg)
I need to build me one of those. Waiting to get new bumpers though.
Last Stingray.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TbVryDQIxU